♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: i'm margaret brennan in washington. this week on "face the nation," in the five days following the massacre of 19 children and two teachers at robb elementary school in uvalid texas, the heartbreak as intensified as the outrage over the botched police response rose. we're learning about the mixed signals from the troubled 18-year-old shooter and what is looking like an avalanche of errors on the part of the school district's law enforcement. our coverage begins in

uvalde and omar villafranca. >> reporter: the sorrow is overwhelming. people come to this memorial behind me to pray and cry together. but they're also asking for answers and accountability from law enforcement and lawmakers. while thousands stopped to pray at the memorial in vu valde's town square on saturday, even more are asking for answers as to what went wrong with the police response on tuesday at robb elementary. these photos taken outside the school show state and federal officers pulling students and faculty out of the building. the children running to safety. horror clearly visible on their faces. at first, investigators said a school police officer confronted the shooter when he arrived on the scene. troopers claimed he then ran inside, went on a shooting rampage, and then was fa fatally shot by officers. but law enforcement

officers' reports changed. on friday, a school officer said a school resource officer never confronted the shooter because he was not on campus. he entered through a door that was propped over by a teacher and immediately entered the fourth grade classroom. at one point, 19 officers, ready to engage, were outside the classroom for more than 40 minutes, where the gunman was still firing rounds. but according to detectives department of public safety, the commanding officer, pete aradondo, made the decision to hold back officers, saying that the situation was now a bark now a barricaded person, not an active shooter, a decision that investigators now say it was a wrong move. >> of course was a wrong decision, period. there was no excuse for that. >> reporter: the decision is contrary to the state's active response shooting, that

states the best hope that innocent victims have is that officers immediately move into action to isolate, distract, or neutralize the threat, even if that means one officer acting alone. with officers outside, teachers and students made multiple 911 calls from inside the classroom, begging for police to charge in. >> you had 9-1-1 calls at 12:10, 12:13, and the shooter wasn't killed until 12:50. did any of those 9-1-1 callers survive? >> yes. i can't tell you that with certainty, but more than one survived. >> reporter: texas governor greg abbott had to explain why he initially praised the officers' response. >> governor: the information i was given turned out to be, in part, inaccurate. and i'm absolutely livid about that. >> reporter: some texas lawmakers are upset, and

they want a federal investigation into what went wrong here. president biden is expected to visit this memorial and meet with grieving family members. members margaret? >> brennan: we turn now to uvalde county commission, ronald garza. we are all so sorry. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: we're all so sorry for what your community is going through, not just with this awful has ker, but -- massacre, but with these painful responses. do you know why the school district police officer was thot not there when the shooting began? >> i have no idea. i'm like a lot of people, margaret, i'm still in the dark. we're still learning about new developments that are coming to l light. my heart goes out to the community. we're emotionally

shattered. and, you know, we're really sad right now. it is a time of mourning in our community. >> brennan: i know. i've read that it is also a time of anger, and that the chief of police for the school district is now under police protection himself. is that right? is that reflective of the feeling in the community right now? >> well, you know, rightly so people are asking questions. parents lost children. they're devastated. and it's just a sad situation. and i think the community deserves answers. >> brennan: i just want to clarify, i said the police commander. the police officer assigned to the school from the independent school district was not on site during the shooting. do you know why? >> i do know that we have

multiple campuses here, margaret. perhaps he was at another campus when the shooting started. >> brennan: uh-huh. >> but, no, i -- he could have been at another campus. >> brennan: well, i ask you that because, you know, what has happened in your community has led to conversations in communities around the country about whether there needs to be more security at schools. some lawmakers here in washington are calling for more resources to do that. but in your district, you have an entire police unit that is dedicated to the school district. was the problem a lack of security? >> you know, perhaps. perhaps it was a lack of security. training, you know, i think there are multiple factors that might be involved here. but, you know, right now it is easy to point fingers right now.

it is easy to play the blame game. but, you know, our community, i think, needs to focus on healing right now. yes, we do welcome the investigation. i understand congressman castro is asking the f.b.i. to intervene. i welcome that investigation. i think we need to learn more. as tragic as this may seem, we need to learn from this, you know. and deserve answers. >> brennan: do you have any indication as to the motive of the shooter? i know you know this community, and i've read you knew his family. >> yes. i have no indication as to why or what the motive was. the family of the shooter is a good family. you know, i've said this before on other networks. they are a family of faith. they value church.

they value hard work. i've known them for many years. the great grandparents, grandparents, uncles, and this should not be a reflection on them. you know, we raise our children and we try to raise them in the right way, but sometimes our children have different thoughts, have different attitudes, personalities, but we do the best we can. >> brennan: yeah. in sandy hook, the shooter's home and the school itself were destroyed. is that what is going to happen in uvalde? >> you know, i'm not sure. i have mixed emotions about, you know, destroying the school. you know, many people, students, you know, that i know of -- i went through that school. my dad taught there. that was a second teaching sign.

assignment. the counties out there in robb school, my dad planted them. after school, he and a few students would water those pecan trees. my opinion is i hope the school is not erased. yes, do we need a memorial out there? do we need to section off the area where the shooting took place? perhaps. but, you know -- again, that's just my opinion. >> brennan: all right. commissioner, thank you for your time this morning, and our condolences. the national rifle association gathered this weekend in houston, just 300 miles away from uvalde. tensions between protestors and n.r.a. members flared as part of the intensifying national debate over guns, school, and cul robert costa reports. >> reporter: high emotions just outside the convention.

and heated cont fronttations in houston. from senator ted cruz being confronted in a sushi restaurant, to members of the proud boys, a far-right group links to last year's attack on the u.s. capitol, confronting protestors on saturday. [yelling] >> reporter: some of those protestors included children, making their own pleas for reform. >> i really shouldn't be having to be scared to go to school. and my mom shouldn't really be scared to send me to school every day. >> t they use the tragic situation to push their agenda. and it is all about control, and it is garbage. >> reporter: with gun talks and a divided washington far from certain to gain traction, it was school security that was a flashpoint. >> fire exits should only open out. at that single point of entry, we should have

multiple, armed police officers, ultimately. as we all know. what stops armed bad guys is armed good guys. >> our children deserve at least, in fact more, protection than our banks, stadiums, and government buildings. >> reporter: many n.r.a. members, including some teachers, called for more instructors to be armed. >> n more guns in schools. >> i think it wouldn't hurt if teachers train and they feel comfortable. >> reporter: but some disagree. >> n.r.a. members haven't spent a day in our classrooms. who are we going to listen to? our teachers, who have trained and worked with our kids for years? and our parents in our community? or the n.r.a. trying to make money. >> reporter: advocates for more gun laws have

also expressed hope that bipartisan discussions in congress on red- red flag laws and background checks will begin to within support. but they know many republican lawmakers are weary of breaking with the n.r.a. so close to the mid-term election. >> brennan: robert costa, thank you. we turn now to governor asa hutchinson who joins us from little rock. good morning to you, governor. >> governor: good morning, margaret. >> brennan: we have spoken before about this before because after sandy hook, you ran a committee. there was an armed officer assigned to the elementary school in uvalde, and then you had a police force response where they did not confront the shooter who was carrying an ar-15. in buffalo, the armed guard who was at that grocery store confronted

the shooter but was killed. in parkland, florida, there was an armed officer onsite who did not intervene. doesn't this show this is an insufficient solution to the problem? >> governor: well, it certainly shows that you have to have multiple layers of security to protect the children. and there is also the factor of human error, and that's the reason that you've got to have different layers. you can't rely upon just one technique. school safety is something that we all have to focus on coming out of the incredible tragedy that we see in uvalde. we have to look at how we can better secure our schools. and it is about the single point of entry that by blocking it open allowed the gunman to come in. it is about the mental health issues, where we've got to do better to identify those that are potentially a mass killer. you've got to have our private sector internet

providers to do better in using technology to identify these kind of dangerous, violent communications much quicker. and then, of course, we have to be able to train our officers properly. >> brennan: yeah. >> governor: we're going to have to learn a lot more facts as to some of the things that happened in uvalde. let's been patient and learn tr them, but we can't give up on protecting our children. >> brennan: i think a lot of the people would agree with many of the things you just said, but then they would ask, why can't we talk about the weapon. i understand a lot of people may want a long gun to go hunting. but then there is this ar-15 semi automatic, not that good for hunting. the bullets literally blow bodies apart. it was used in buffalo. it was used in sandy hook. it was used in uvalde.

why not raise the minimum age of purchase from 18 to 21. >> governor: you've seen some states do that. you've seen it in flore in flor, and you have seen that in california, but it was held as unconstitutional. ultimately, i think the supreme court is going to give us guidance on it. you look at ar-15 -- >> brennan: but you would endorse that? >> governor: no -- i want to give a little more history. ar-15s were around for 40 years before they were ever used in any type of mass killing or attack. and so it is about the human heart. it is about identifying the culprits and going after them. >> brennan: uh-huh. >> governor: i think it is a discussion you can have. i come down on the point that that is not going to be the solution. and it's going to cause more harm than good.

in arkansas, for example, as you pointed out, the long rifles, we distinguish those. and those you can acquire at 18 because we hunt with those. it is a culture that we start when we're 14 or 15 here in arkansas. that's an important part of it, and it is a step to go to the ar-15s and how you draft laws that will distinguish them. i don't think that is the solution and we shouldn't focus on that. >> brennan: but the gunmen in texas and new york legally purchased those ar-15s. they didn't set off any concerns because they didn't have any health issues of concern. they didn't have background checks. are you saying it is their legal right and should remain a legal right of anyone, to go in and buy an ar-15? >> governor: an ar-15 is a semi automatic weapon. it takes a pull of the trigger on each one of

them. we ought to outlaw the bump stocks and ways you can convert that from a semi automatic to an automatic weapon. that is important to distinguish those two. it is an ar-15-style weapon that has been used lately, but, again, for 40 years it wasn't. so why is this happening? i think it is copycats. but are we really going after the heart of the problem? are we going after what we see is the latest trend? i think it is more important to protect the schools, invest in that -- >> brennan: why does it have to be either or? >> governor: it doesn't have to be either or -- >> brennan: because i think people want to look at the other things, like mental health and security. the shooter went into that room, that elementary school in uvalde with 660 rounds of ammunition and that ar-15-style weapon. that is more than three times what a u.s. soldier carries into combat.

should a purchase of ammunition of that size set off alarm bells somewhere? should there were be kind of screening or limit on high-capacity magazines? what legal limitation should there be for an 18-year-old to go in and buy that kind of ammunition? >> governor: it sets off all kinds of alarm bells. let me emphasize the point: you can do either/or. you can have a conversation about both. i think that the senators coming together in a bipartisan way to talk about what we can agree on is important. i would like to see a similar bipartisan working group of governors, democrats and republicans, saying what is it that we can agree upon that we can address this and learn from this. so, yes. and whenever you're looking at the alarm bells, whenever you're looking at these very odd purchases -- somebody just turned 18 -- something has to trigger an alarm bell.

somebody says, let's alert law enforcement to this. this is a concern. i think we need to look at those types of triggers that can alert law enforcement. >> brennan: well, we will look at limits on high-capacity magazines and the potential for what you just laid out. governor, thank you for your time this morning. "face the nation" will be back in a minute. so stay with us. thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own,

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republicans about red flag laws and expanding background checks. can you get 10 republicans to vote with you on either of those two measures? >> i think we can. i think there is something dying inside the soul of this country when we refuse to act at a national level shooting after shooting. i do think there is an opportunity right now to be able to pass something specifically. i've seen more republican ta tayst in coming to the other moment since sandy hook. it is true, republicans are not willing to support everything i support, like banning assault weapons, but i really think we can pass something that saves lives and breaks this log jam we've had for 30 years, proving to republicans if you vote to tighten the nation's gun laws, the sky doesn't fall for you politically. in fact, you probably would get a lot of new, additional supporters. red flag laws are on the table, background check expansions are on the table, as well as safe

storage of guns. i think we can get something done, but we don't have a lot of time. >> brennan: you don't. in those starting points in your talks with republicans, are you also discussing some of what governor hutchinson just laid out as republican priorities? >> listen, we're looking for an old-school compromise in which we both tighten the nation's gun laws to make sure that only law-abiding citizens get their hands on these very powerful weapons, but also invest in school security and mental health. it is true that we should have an "all of the above" strategy, and that's ulultimately the last 60 votes. i'm willing to vote for some things that make me uncomfortable, if republicans will vote to tighten up the nation's firearms. that's the nature of a compromise. i think right now parents

in this country, and kids, are desperate for us to do something. they're frightened, they're anxie anxious, and we'll just add to their anxiety if nothing happens again. >> brennan: what about limits on high-capacity magazines? >> i think unlikely we'll be able to get 60 votes for that right now. that is a question that probably will have to be left up to the voters. it is not out of the realm of possibility. we might take a vote on that in the senate, but i don't see that having 60 votes. it is in the category of things that would save lives. i'm not sure that the shooter would have walked into the school in sandy hook if he didn't have an assault rifle and the high-capacity magazines, but i'm not sure we have the votes for that right now. >> brennan: senator murphy, stay with us. we're going to continue our conversation in a moment. we'll be right back.

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♪♪ >> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we want to continue our conversation now with senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator, i want to get into the specifics of some of what you are talking to your fellow senators about. but i want to start with something else. i grew up in a town next to sandy hook. i know you represented that district when you were a congressman at the time of the shooting. you spoke on the senate floor quite passionately this week about not just the victims but the survivors, and the ptsd that these little children have just walking back into a classroom, and remembering having to walk over bodies. can you talk a little bit about what this doe