♪ hello. on behalf of the archdiocese, welcome to mosaic. this is an office, a function, an order, a service that is referred to in the very earliest scriptures of the new testament. the letters of st. paul and the acts of the apostles by st. luke. it endured for several centuries. for 1,000 years after that, it

laid dormant. in the 20th century did an aware of the of the need tfor it becoe resurrected. it was given in the documents of the second vatican council. theteathe catholichops o then, more than 18,000 men in the united states have been ordained to this office. we are talking about the office of deacon. today our guest is a deacon. after this break, come back and stay with us as we learn about this ancient catholic vocation and its new application.

thank you for joining us on "mosaic." our guest today is deacon michael gyorso. you go by mike? . mike, you are a deacon in the archdiocese of san francisco. everything i know about this i learned from you. this idea that it's an ancient christian vocation, i'm going to

read. paul, who is in jail for -- jailed by the romans for his christian faith, writes to the people in greece. he says, i write to all of you to the holy one's in christ jesus who are there are the overseers and the deacons. i give thanks to my god. your partnership for the gospel from the first day until now. that is ancient roots of this vocation. i want you to tell me about the roots and the beginning of this vocation of deacon, if you can. >> the very first deacons were formed in acts chapter 6. >> acts of the apostles. >> when the greek widows complained they were being ignored and neglected. they asked the apostles to appoint someone to serve them.

they appointed seven good men, the first deacons. among them, steven. >> this is recorded in acts of the apostles. >> exactly. >> a few decades after jesus' death. this was the community in jerusalem finding its way with these deacons. >> right. to begin with on that. it was necessary because they were forming into different classes. as it began to spread, people were not just jewish that were being brought into the faith but were also greek. it was the greek widows that necessitated someone of their background. >> that's interesting. >> it was a need that needed to be filled, literally, in the early church. >> i get it. i'm vague on this. the jewish disciples had gentile converts. with a different culture, different needs and so on. as i remember from acts, it says

the apostles were busy with the preaching and so on. what did the deacons do? >> literally, to provide them with food, shelter, clothing and things of that nature. mainly to wait on them at table. when they gathered for the meal, the lord's meal, then also they would also have a little meal afterwards to make sure that the widows, too, were served, the greek widows were served. >> how do i put it? in a new organization or a thing that's not very well organized, a new movement, you have jobs that have to get parcelled out. >> that's part of it. >> they chose -- you mentioned the phrase from the acts of the apostles, what were the men described as. >> servant. >> what was their -- able men? >> good men. men of good virtue basically. that description is later used

in timothy to describe deacons. hopefully, we measure up today. >> every catholic knows about st. steven. but i don't connect him until you mentioned it. >> steven became our first martyr on that. we don't know a lot. but he was doing preaching. he was very adamant. it was because of his preaching that he was eventually martyred. >> in jerusalem the deacons were at work. they are named in the acts of the apostles, the seven men. do we know the histories of the other men? >> we know a little about phillip. that goes on to a story about phillip. as well as -- other ones we don't know as much about as to what they did or where they went. >> we understand that the offices of -- in the church became organized and distinguished over the early centuries. are there three main categories?

>> three. >> tell us. >> we what we would refer to as bishops. >> speak greek to get this program. >> we use bishop, priests and then the deacons or servants. >> these were -- are there any other notable deacons in our early history? >> we have lawrence in rome who was asked to bring about and present to the emperor the riches of the church. >> let me pause. i learned about him in third grade maybe. famous martyr. not to give it away. i had no association with his being a deacon. tell us that story. >> because deacons at that time were controlling the finances. so he was asked to supply to the emperor the riches of the church. he gather ed up all the poor an

gathered and presented them. he was not warmly received. he ended up being martyred for that. >> he had access to the finances of the church and was told, hold over the treasurer. that's good. that is a good man. he was marchmartyred. then i heard about doctor of the church, learned -- >> st. ephram. he did many writings and letters that would still come down to us today. >> the office of deacon, as i understand it, it became part of the order of advancement toward priesthood, is that right? >> one of the orders. we had a variety of orders. porter, sub-deacon, deacon and then priest.

other ones also in there. we suppressed most of those with the exception of lector and reader and acolyte that we use as steps. >> that's good to know. we will take a break. we will come back and talk more about the change from an ancient practice into a new and modern one.

welcome back. we are talking with deacon mike. let's turn to your -- let's talk about this. you are not a deacon from the 3rd century. you are a deacon from the 20th century. you are ordained for the archdiocese of san francisco.

as i said in the opening, your vocation, your office is a new one founded about 50 years ago. what happened there? >> in 1968, the church was looking for ways to involve people in the church. part was expanding the office or order of the deacon. it's a bridge between clergy and lay people. we are supposed -- the idea that we bring those people to the church. we are almost like an outreach. one of our formation directors told us that we should be preaching to the people in the back pew. that's the ones we're bringing into church. the ones that don't quite feel they belong, bring them into the church. to more full participation in liturgy, in service and charity,

whatever you want to call it. >> i knew that the last step for a young man on the way to the priesthood, the last order before he is ordained, he is a deacon. >> a transitional deacon. >> then your vocation -- your office is permanent deacon. >> exactly. >> you are ordained by the bishop for his diocese. ordained to what ministry? you are not a junior priest. >> no. a lot of people think, you are a minute mee -- mini-priest. the call is more one of service. i always say, the priests have christ as the icon of the high priest. we try to imitate christ. >> that's interesting. there's a theology of the priest in latin is out there. he does the sacrifice in the

eucharist. >> that's why the deacon cannot say a mass or consecrate the eucharist. we can assist the priest. but we cannot consecrate, we cannot hear confession, we cannot anoint the sick. >> you have pastoral duties. >> yes. those -- we can read the gospel. we can proclaim the gospel. we can preach. we can baptize. we oversee vigils or committals at the cemeteries. >> as you mentioned before, the pastoral side involves outreach to the marginalized people. >> exactly. it's specifically meant -- if you think of the old testament call to take care of the widows, the orphans and the stranger in the land or the immigrants, that's the call.

>> i personally don't have experience of deacon, now that i think about it. an elder gentleman i knew in oakland had become a deacon. i haven't had much experience of them. and yet, from the statistics, 18,000 men in the united states are in this ministry throughout the states. people have answered the call. who are these people? what about the call brings them in? >> the vast majority of deacons are married. you are not only having a deacon in the sense of a married man as a member of the clergy, but the wife also participates with him. very often as ministry. my wife works with me in marriage preparation and in preparing couples to get married within the church and things of that nature. deacons -- we have deacons who work with the homeless, work in soup kitchens, deacons who work

in jails, jail ministry, juvenile ministry. anywhere that there's a need of service to the people of god. >> fascinating you mention the wife. i think the majority of ordained deacons are married men. >> about 90%. >> the church looks for that. the wife has to be -- how do i put it? discern her own vocation in that as well. >> she has to be willing that her husband become ordained. we ask that before they join. we ask it every year under ordaining. >> it's a complex vocation. there must be severe training, discernment process. >> i don't know if it's severe. it's five years of theology. we start with the catechism, general theology.

then we move on to new testament, old testament theology. all different types of moral theology. all things that we need to learn, because people will be asking us questions. >> of course. you have the training, five-year program. that's done locally for our archdiocese? >> it's done -- we take it two saturdays a month. it's done at the seminary. it takes 9:00 to 3:00, six hours two saturdays. then we have some evening classes sometimes. that's the majority of the classes are held at the seminary. >> you are doing five years of night school, weekend school with your wife permission and cooperation.

>> we ask that deacons put in about ten hours a week. work it out with your pastor as to what that is. if you are doing homily and present at all the masses, that's ten hours easily if you have six masses. it's going to easily come from that. we have them doing things like i said with food baskets or food harvest or anything that they bring to st. vincent and paul. all things that deacons work with within the parish. we also work with the jail ministries and things of that nature or the homeless centers that are literally outside the parish and more for the whole archdiocese. >> 40% or 50% of the men are holding down full-time jobs as well. >> yes. almost everybody is holding down a job. maybe the wives are working, too. still they are putting in these

hours above and beyond. they are not compensated for this. >> we thank you for your service. let's take a brief break. we will come back and have one more session of talk. find out about what the deacons are doing.

welcome back. we are having an enjoyable conversation, illuminating conversation. mike, i didn't ask you for your full title. >> i'm the director of deacon ministry and life. deacons have a ministry but they also have a life. how many deacons do we have? >> this is always an excellent question. we have 110 in the archdiocese of san francisco. 20 of those are working outside the archdiocese in ministry as far away as guatemala and honduras. that remaining 90, 15 are

retired. 75 active deacons for san francisco. >> they are mostly in parish work? >> some are in geo-ministry that are specific. some are both in parish work and an archdiocese in ministry. >> we have about 100 parishes, we have about 100 deacons. what would be the ideal? >> ideally, i would like to have two per parish. that way all of it doesn't fall on one person. we could actually use two deacons per parish. we have plenty of room to grow. we also have plenty of time. we need people joining up who are a little bit younger. we ask that they don't apply after the age of 60. >> okay. that makes sense. i know retirement age is a time when a man who is freed of his prior responsibilities looks around and says, this might be for me.

you have some of these people applying. >> we do. >> but you want younger as well? >> you can't be -- you need to be ordained at 35. >> i notice in january, there were three evening meetings in different places, counties of the archdiocese. >> come and find out. >> no salesman will call. >> no commitment or anything of that nature. just information. >> people are able to find out readily what it is and what they -- how they can find out about it from you. >>ebsite.n the website. we have an office. they can call deacon fred or deacon mike. >> excellent. deacon mike, i have to say the job seems to have agreed with you. when we first met, i thought you were 20 years younger than i am.

i find out that's not the case. >> that's not the case. >> something is working well for you. >> i've been fortunate. >> tell me how you got into this. how did you discern this? >> it's a long process for me. out of the -- out of grammar school, i felt called to the seminary. i spent eight years. >> you are a local boy, san francisco. >> san francisco. my senior high in high school -- senior year in college, he wasn't calling me to the priesthood but to service. i put that aside. eventually got married, raised a family, four children. it wasn't until i guess i was about 50, 55 i began feeling a call to more, to do more. i kept saying, i don't know what that is. my best friend told me that, mike, you are being called to be

deacon. god doesn't want that. no. i argued with him for a long time about it. he turned out to be correct. i was being called. it took me a while to realize that and a little argument with god. as i decided to aspire to it, to join and discern whether or not this was for me, obviously, i found it very much for me. my wife was only too supportive. in fact, she told me, what took you so long? >> is that right? okay. you and your wife, with four kids and a prior career, you told me -- you were a teacher. >> i was a teacher. >> you are an expert in east asian history. all walks of life are found here. i hope you guys have a good collegial relationship and structure. you need one another.

>> we do. that was the surprise for us, or for me and my wife as we joined the community. it was such a warm and welcoming community. there's so many good people there. i think i'm constantly humbled by how much or how many of the deacons and their wives are doing wonderful ministry. i say, why am i the spokesperson? they are better at this. they are out there doing it. >> that's humility. we have one minute left. can you give us a prayer to close? >> in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit. lord, we thank you for the day that you have given us. we ask you to guide us to where you want us to be today as you do always. this we ask through christ our lord. >> amen. thank you very much for joining me. i want to tell our audience, you can find out all about this in the archdiocese of san francisco by going to website, sfarch.org.

mike's phone number is there. informational evenings, they will continue. >> they continue, yes. >> men, take a look. ask about it. it's fascinating. a great service to the church. thank you for being with us. we will see you next time on "mosaic." ♪

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