sounds again next sunday morning. ♪♪ [trumpet] ♪♪ >> i'm john dickerson in washington, and this week on "face the nation," the committee investigating the january 6 attack on congress says it was the culmination of an attempted coup. >> president trump summoned the mob and lit the flame of this attack. >> more than 17 months after supporters of former president trump assaulted the u.s. capitol in an effort to overturn the 2020 election results, thursday's hearing provided new details and dramatic testimony. >> i was slipping in people's blood. i was catching people as they fell. it was...carnage. it was chaos. >> plus, new insight into the

conduct of the former president. >> and aware of the rioters' chants to hang myocardial myocae result said maybe our supporters have the right idea. mike pence deserves it. >> what does the american people hope it will take from this fresh look at this riot. >> tonight i say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. there will come a day when donald trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain. >> we'll hear from adam kinzinger, a member of the panel, and get the latest reporting on upcoming hearings from our cbs washington team. then, thousands of rallied across hundreds of teas this weekend, demanding tougher gun regulations, as lawmakers in the senate work to find an agreement

on even a modest plan for gun violence. we'll here from an expert on why people decide to commit mas mash mohamed el-erian. it's all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪♪ >> dickerson: good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." we have a lot to get to today, but we want to begin with some news out of idaho last night. where 31 people were arrested, accused of planning a riot at an lgbtq pride event. those arrested who police say came from 11 different states,

were affiliated with the white supremacist group p patriots front. they warned that domestic violent extremism remains one of the biggest terrorist threats in the country. we turn to the violent extremism that took place on january 6, 2021, which will be a topic for the committee looking into that attack. congressman adam kinzinger sits on the committee, and he joins us this morning from illinois. good morning, congressman. >> good morning. >>ck tmittee i ed6 te but it seems like january 6 is encased in a larger argument that you're making, that president trump made a series of efforts to over throw the election and the january 6 attack was just one of them? >> yeah, that's exactly right. it is kind of unfortunate we're

focused on the day of january 6. we understand why it was really the visible kind of symptom of everything that led up to it. but what is important and what we're going to delve into this week, and wednesday i'm leading a hearing specifically talking about the justice department, but you saw a president that spreads misinformation, tries to install his own people in the justice to do his bidding, justice, which is supposed to be representative of all of us. preciouspressures the vice pres, and eventually, when we can't get his way, he tries to pressure congress in a public attack. what is very important to notice in that is it is a whole set leading up to january 6, but i think the thing that is most concerning to me is nothing has chairched. changed. the only thing that has changed since january 6, if they want to run that play again, they will put more loyal people into the

administration. it is important for the american people to see this and make a decision what kind of country we want to live in. >> dickerson: who is "they?" you said they want to, who is they? >> if donald trump gets elected again, there is no doubt in my mind, zero doubt, that he will, instead of screening candidates, like he probably did when he got elected in 2016, for qualifications, he is going to screen people based on their loyalty to him. i don't know if that would go beyond anybody else but him, but i think it is important for us as a country to recognize that, to recognize the importance that the oath to the united states plays. john, we could pass any law in this country, but if we have people in power, whether it is in politics or law enforcement or the military, if we have any people that are unwilling to put their oath above any loyalty to a person, no law matters.

so what matters in the bottom line is that we, as a country, recognize, even when we're on the receiving end of politics, even when we don't get our way, if we follow through our oath, that basic compact of self-governance will work. otherwise it won't. >> dickerson: one of the findings on thursday even, we were shown for the first time, is several people close to the president telling him there was no widespread fraught, he was s going to lose. how many people close to him do you think were sending him that message? >> i don't really know many people around him that truly believe that the election was stolen and told him so. yet a lot of people told him it wasn't. >> dickerson: were there people who knew it was a lie and yet carried on in his inner circle? >> oh, for sure.

all you have to do is look at he was surrounded by "yes" people that want to tell him everything that pleases him. we'll get more into at. i don't want to spoil the deep dive into some of this stuff. i think if anybody truly believed, after what you see, after what the attorney general says, for instance, after what every piece of information comes in, if you truly believe the election was stolen then, if the president truly believes it, for instance, he is not mentally capable to be president. i think he didn't believe it. i think the people around him didn't believe it. it was about keeping power against the will of the american people. >> dickerson: during covid, president trump at the time said it is like the flu. later we heard bob woodward had audio saying it is nothing like the flu. so he was on record or in private, saying the opposite. do you have evidence of that

about this? >> i won't go into -- i don't want to go into the evidence we haven't put out yet. let me tell you my belief that i can say right now: the president absolutely tried to overthrow the will of the people. he tried to do it initially through misinformation, through pressuring vice president, and then on january 6. he was told repeatedly by people he trusted, that he respected, people like the folks around him, that the election wasn't stolen. that there is no corroborating proof of any kind of a stealing or corruption that would change the outcome. and so i think it prettyou he knew, but he t wt to lose. >> dickerson: let me ask you about pardons. how many pardons are we talking about? and why were they asking for pardons? >> well, look, more of that is going to be released this week. in fact, we're going to talk a little about that in my hearing. why would you ask for a pardon?

let's just say in general, if somebody asks for a pardon it will be because they have real concerns maybe they've done something illegal. i'll say that more information will be coming. >> dickerson: your colleague, congressman perry, denied he asked for a pardon. the notion i ever sought a presidential pardon for myself or other members of congress is an absolute shameless and soulless lie. is the testimony you have hearsay, or do you have the goods? >> i don't want to tip my hand on this. we'll put out what we need to put out. we're not going to make accusations or say things without proof or evidence backing it. >> dickerson: one of the other disclosures in the hearings on thursday night was the role of the proud boys. quite a lot that was painstakingly put forward. some people have said is one of the things you proved is that the proud boys were on the march before the president gave his speech on january 6.

if they were already off to march, how could president trump have incited them? what is your response to that comment? >> again, i think what we want to do thursday is show the top lines of what happened with some kind of overall things to be aware of. more information will come out on that. let's keep in mind that the whole thing on january 6 and the violence wasn't just about the president standing on stage saying what he was saying. it was also about tweets about this will be wild. january 6 will be wild. come out on january 6, knowing darn well he was spewing out lies before the american people. we'll take a look and we'll see. here is the other thing: we are inundated with people saying this was the f.b.i.. you now see members of congress, again, talking about the ray eff conspiracy, that somehow he was an informant for the f.b.i., and that led to all of these people doing an insurrection.

it is garbage, but that is the kind of misinformation coming around. people like ted cruz and sheriff troy nells have been repeating this conspiracy. >> dickerson: the president has claimed he, in fact, did reach out to the national guard. your testimony showed that mike pence had to jump in when the president wouldn't. what is your response to the president's claim? >> i think it is very obvious that the president didn't do anything but glee fully watch television when thais w this was going down. >> dickerson: adam kinzinger, thank you very much. we'll be right back with more we'll be right back with more "face the nation." you have to make magic,

>> dicke: want a pan ofrwashinon corresponden. chief white house correspondence nancy cordes, robert costa, and congressional correspondent scott mcfarland. good morning to all of you. great to be with you. nancy, i want to start with you. you covered the hill for a very long time. covered a lot of hearings. what is the purpose of this hearing? >> there are a couple of main goals here. first of all, john, it is important for the present time and prosterity for americans to have a set of facts of what happened led up to that day and on the day. there are some powerful

politicians who stories are already changing. and we're heading the a mid-term election. it is important to remind people what actually happened. any time this nation history ever had a major trauma, a major incident, congress has been the body that takes the big 360 view of what happened so we learn what can be gleaned from that experience. imagine after 9/11 if there had been no 9/11 commission to examine not just what happened the day into buildin, b also were hatd o these different agencies not talking to one another? that led to the creation of the department of national intelligence. >> dickerson: bob, from the 360-degree view, let's go down to a single moment of testimony. we're going to play from the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general milley. we're going to play some of the testimony. >> there were two or three calls

to vice-president pence. he issued very explicit, very direct, unambiguous orders to secretary miller. get the military on it. get the guard down here. push down this situation, etc.. >> dickerson: so, bob, your book, "peril," opens with milley. explain why that testimony was important and what it led to? >> that testimony showed the entire nation that january 6 was an attack on the capitol. it was a constitutional crisis in terms of how it was unfolding on capital hill. was president trump doing his duty as command in chief of the u.s. military. capital, and he wattingdle in tvalffic, or dinioom, and it fell to the

vice president to make calls to the national guard. it raises questions of who is in charge in the united states. and the rest of the world were on high alert about the stability of the united states. it is something that is almost hard to think about that the rest of the world was wondering, is the united states stable? >> dickerson: and general milley worried about who was in charge beyond just that moment. at the end of the hearing, the chairman said something tantalizing about the proud boys and the administration. >> i'm absolutely struck about how much time was spent on thursday talking about the proud boys. the revelation that the proud boys, according to this committee, was doing reconnaissance before president trump ever spoke. they were looking for vulnerabilities, places to lead the crowd into the capitol. they were in court that morning to plead not guilty. that the january 6 committee is

so interested in them is striking. they were referenced a half dozen times in the open hearing because it is clear the committee is going to draw some kind of line between the proud boys and the organizers of this rally and president trump. president trump said stand back and stand by to the proud boys. they played part of the interviews they had wthe proud boys members, in which they said that was an incitement to action. we know from the court filings a member of the oathkeepers, the leader of the oathkeepers, is accused of trying to call donald trump during the riot. >> dickerson: nancy, what else struck you in this hearing? >> it was eye opening as someone who was at the capital that day, to see these depositions with the president's family members

talking about how strenuously they tried to get him to do something, to make that call the department of defense, to bring in the national guard, and the fact that he refused to do it. when you look at the capital police officers who were getting beaten up, when you know there were lawmakers who were sitting ducks, and this ravenous crowd came within a couple of minutes of actually being able to get to them in the chambers, to hearrid to tell him to act and he wouldn't do it -- even though we know fro it from their mouths was fascinating. and to know the same individuals behind the scenes were telling the president you need to act, they were telling him there was no fraud when it came to the fraud he was talking about, but in public they were still supporting him and standing by him. >> dickerson: nancy talks about hearing it from the mouths of the advisors, bob, don't we

need to hear from mike pence? >> former vice-president pence is probably not going to cooperate with this committee. he is not going to play some kind of john dean moment. but we are likely to hear from greg jacob, his former counsel who was part of crafting that statement that pence came up with. they have cooperated extensively with the committee so far, and they are likely to testify under a subpoena in the coming weeks, that will help us fill in the gaps of the intense pressure campaign pence was under. recall it wasn't just that trump was asking pence to walk away from the proceedings on january 6, trump wanted toaponi. >> dicon: wll abouprident'offid what the vice president did in that moment responding to these riots. scott, what questions do you

want to have answered or hear answered, and which ones do you think we will never have an answer to. >> one million and one, john. the committee has this tidalwave of evidence and records, 140,000 records, and they have to dispense in it in drinking glass size for americans. one thing they probably won't be getting to, did the conspiracy of the people who deposited those pipe bombs -- they are nowhere in finding that person. it was clearly coinciding with the attack on the capital. the committee has been unequunequivocal. >> dickerson: we have 20 seconds left, bob. you were in the room? >> defense at

>> in the room. i thought what it was like during the watergate. it wasn't just about an attack. it was a systemic shock to the american system. and you could see it in the testimony that day. >> dickerson: thanks to all three of you. we'll be right back. stay with us. in real time

>> dickerson: the investigation into the riots on january 6 take place at a time of fresh challenges to america. testing lawmakers and straining the public's ability to pay attention to the past and the present. but in a healthy democracy, we must be able to do both. president eisenhower warned that in managing national affairs, you can't let urgent matters eclipse important ones. the nation's leaders faced a test of that theory this week in the urgent category is inflation. up 8.6%, compared to may a year ago.

a 40-year high. in the important category, the house hearing about the attempted overthrow of the 2020 election. eisenhower's advice was aimed at a truth. if you only attend to the urgent, important problems will become urgent soon enough and you won't be prepared. for example, it was important to knock back donald trump's proof-free claim that the election was stolen. >> we will win this. and as far as i'm concerned, we already have. >> dickerson: that lie became urgent soon enough. >> i was slipping in people's blood. you know, i was catching people as they fell. you know, i was -- it was carnage. it was chaos. >> dickerson: officer carolyn edwards testified as to what happens when you let important matters slip. >> i ran towards the west front,

and i was trying to hold the line. >> dickerson: president trump's lawyer held the line by threatening to resign when trump pressed the justice department to over turn the election. the entire leadership of the justice department held the line. vice-president pence held the line. the reason these hearings are important enough to be considered at the same time we focus on the urgent matter of inflation is the hearings redefine what the line is. to hold the line is to put courage and action behind ideas that are true and enduring. we reaffirm the strength of those ideas in public moments like these hearings. reaffirming that in american democracy, the winner of an election is not determined by anger and force, but by the will of the people. that a presidency cannot be oriented entirely around the maintenance of power, as donald trump's was after the november

election. that wishes are not facts. and, finally, the hearings reaffirm that concern exclusively for things that are immediately before us risks distancing us from our contact with where the bright lines are. which means when the moment comes, those of us who lack officer edwards' courage will fail to hold the line because we won't know where to find it. and we'll be right back. at makeg from home, work. ur favorite vc apps so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you.

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>> dickerson: and we'll be back with more on inflation, prices for everything from grocery to rent have gone up. we'll have the analysis coming up.

♪♪ >> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." inflation continues to top the list of americans' economic concerns, and we learned friday that they're right to be worried. prices jumped again at a record-breaking pace last month. cbs news senior national correspondent mark mark strassmn has more. >> gas prices feel like highway robbery. >> too damn high. >> reporter: on average, we're paying more than $5 a gallon, a record up 16 cents in one week. up $2 more than a year ago. >> from all of the complaints about gas prices hitting

records, few americans seem to be coming back. >> reporter: fuel inflation is at a 40-year high. milk, up 20%, eggs up 75%. housing, the average rent costs 15% more. want to get away this summer? airfare is soaring, up almost 40% from a year ago. still sizzling, the economy, there are roughly two jobs for anyone looking for work. >> you could not hire enough employees to produce your president, deliver your president. >> reporter: it is the highest number since 1980ment. >> it is the gas. the labor shortage, and the wages. so you get it from all angles when you're a small business. >> reporter: and three straight months of inflation not just above 8%, but trending in the wrong direction. >> i think that bringing

inflation down should be our number one priority. >> reporter: expect the fed to raise interest rates again soon. mortgage rates have already shot up. a 30-year fixed averages more than 5.5%. but make no mistake, taming inflation will take time, maybe deep into next year. meanwhile, expect to keep paying more. by august, many analysts believe gas will average $6 a gallon. >> dickerson: we now want to go to mohamed el-erian, the chief economic advisor allianz. good morning. >> good morning. >> dickerson: well, let's start with inflation, where everybody else is starting. it is reported at the highest level in just over 40 years. how did we get here? and are things going to get worse? >> we got here because we got a

combination of things happening. of course, we know about the ukraine war. we know about the energy transition. also, the federal reserve mischaracterized inflation and fell behind. and all these things came together and are feeding now this everything inflation. the price of nearly everything is going up. and it is making us feel really insecure. >> dickerson: there was some hope in some quarters, it may have been motivated reasoning, but there was some hope that inflation might be turning around, the picture might be getting better. so give us your sense, was that hope misplaced or is this a sign of how hard it is to predict where we are in the economy at this moment? >> it is both. there was hope initially it is transitory. there was hope, as you pointed out, that it had peaked. i never shared those hopes. i think you have to be very modest about what we know about this inflation process.

and i fear it is still going to get worse. we may well get to 9% at this rate. >> dickerson: i want to get back to that point about modesty. taig on inflation, how much of this is domestic u.s. issues -- you mentioned some of them -- and how much is what is happening overseas? >> it started mainly external, things that we imported. but then the federal reserve did not react. it mischarcharacterized what inflation is and it fell behind. the lessons of history is once you fall behind, you lose the ability of the first best response. you end up in this awful situation that we're in today where you need to make a choice: do you slam on the brakes hard to control inflation and risk a recession, or do you just tap on the brakes and risk inflation lasting much longer than it should? >> dickerson: does that mean the federal reserve is in the

second-best response or a they in the third or fourth-best response? >> the problem for us all is they're far away from the first-best response. what makes this very frustrating is it was partially avoidable. this is going to have enormous economic, social -- it hits the poor particularly hard -- institutional and political consequences. and most of the it could have been avoided had early actions been taken. >> dickerson: looking at what the federal reserve is doing, raising rates to try to push down on demand, how is that story going? and how do you think these new numbers will affect what the federal reserve is going to do going forward? >> it not going well so far because the fed has yet to explain to us why it got its forecast so wrong for so long. the european central bank, they were in the same position. they'll explain why. and that's important because until you regain credibility, you cannot get on top of inflation expectations.

we should look the fed to increase by at least 50 basis points this coming week. >> dickerson: those expecttations, the university of missouri consumer sent many sent psurvey showed that the people feared about the rates going up. >> long-term expectations are 3.3%, the highest we've seen them for 15 years. people are losing confidence in the ability of the fed to get a handle on this inflation process. >> dickerson: mohamed, implicit in everything you've been saying is the merkiness. they're dealing with something we've never seen before, and therefore humility is even more called for in policy prescriptions? >> humility is totally called for.

i was very puzzled when a year ago so many people were so confident that inflation was transitory. there was so much we didn't understand about the post-covid inflation that humility would have been a good idea. unfortunately today there are a few things we know for sure: this inflation is hurting all americans, and it is hurting the poor particularly hard. that we know for sure. second, the longer it lasts, the more it is going to create demand destruction. meaning they will not only get hit with higher prices, but they'll start worrying aboutinc. >> dickerson: if that is the what is facing the american consumer or the american public -- this is the first time for businesses to deal with an inflationary moment. how does that change the tool kit that businesses have to use to face the economic conditions

today? >> they have to be both more resilient and agile. be able to absorb the higher cost, and more agile in knowing how much of this they can pass on. it is also difficult for households. we haven't had to deal with this amount of inflation. it is putting everybody out of their comfort zone, and an additional worry we may not know how to react quickly enough, and we may create a deeper problem. that's why policy leadership is so critical at this stage. >> dickerson: i'm going to ask you to give the darkest picture, as you see it, and perhaps the most optimistic. let's start with the darkest in terms of how long economic difficulties might be with us, and what they might look like if things continue to go in a darker direction? >> we're in a period of stagflation. the darkest spirit is that inflation persists, heads to 9%, and people start worrying it

will go to 10%. and the next thing you know, we end up in a recession. that will be tragic if that were to happen because, again, it is the most vulnerable segment of the population that gets hit hard. what is best is that the fed regains control of the inflation narrative, and we have what is called a soft landing. inflation comes down without us sacrificing growth too much. unfortunately, the balance of risks is tilted in the negative way right now. >> dickerson: let me ask you about stagnation. i thought stagnation included a piece of high unemployment. we don't have high unemployment, so why isn't that a possibly bright sign? >> that is a really good sign, that we have a strong labor market. and that's what is keeping us away from a recession right now. that's why recession is a with scenario, not a base line. the one bad thing about our labor market is we don't have

enough labor participation, not enough workers. we have twice as many jobs that are open than workers. we need more workers entering the labor force. that would help tremendously with our economic outlook. >> dickerson: in terms of options, we talked about the fed. what other policy-makers or areas of help might come to fix the economic situation that america faces? >> number one is as we talked about, the fed regaining control of inflation. number two is focusing more on fiscal support on the most vulnerable population. number three is increasing productivity and labor participation. and, finally, let's not forget about the financial markets. the last thing we want is financial instability to undermine prospe prosperity.

we need more focus on the labor stability. >> dickerson: what does that mean exactly? >> better child care would encourage more women to come back into the labor force. retraining and retooling would allow more people to re-enter the lab force. we have the people, but they're out of the labor force out of necessity. anything we can do to engage them is a win/win. >> dickerson: mohamed el-erian, thank you so much. we'll be talking to you again, i'm certain of that. thanks again. and we'll be right back.

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♪♪ >> dickerson: thousands showed up and rallied in hundreds of cities across the country yesterday, demanding tougher gun laws. some of the speakers were mass shooting survivors, including david hogg, who co-founded "march for our lives." the message to lawmakers was

direct: act now or get voted out. >> if our government can't do anything to stop 19 kids from being killed and slaughtered in their own schools and decapitated, it is time to!z change who is in government. >> dickerson: in perhaps a sign of the times, there was some brief panic at the rally in washington when a man yelled and threw an object into the crowd, sending people running from the stage. this morning we've learned that a bipartisan group of senators have reached an agreement on new measures to address gun violence, with an announcement expected later today. this all follows a string of horrific shootings, from uvalde, texas, to buffalo, new york. we want to go to researchers who have been studying mass shootings, dr. je jillian petern

and dr. james densley. dr. peterson, describe the scope of your work and what your research consists of. >> yeah. we started looking into the life histories of perpetrators of mass shootings about five years ago. our goal was to try to understand where is this coming from, why are we seeing this increase, and who are the perpetrators? so we built a data base that includes 180 perpetrators who killed four or more people in a public space, and we coded each of them on over 200 pieces of life history information to try to look for patterns in the data. and we conducted interviews with perpetrators themselves, people who knew them, and victims and experts in the field to really try to add some data and analysis to understand where this is coming from and what werwecould do to top it.

>> dickerson: dr. densley, what were able to come up with in terms of what the typical mass shooter is like? >> i think a lot of people are searching for a profile of a mass shooter. we instead saw a pathway to a mass shooting. and we outline our pathway in our book called "the violence project." so it starts with early childhood trauma. many have experienced some pretty horrific things early in life, and it is unsettled, unresolved trauma that i think comes back later in life and it is part of what we describe as what as being a crisis point and these people's lives. these are individuals who are not living their best selves. they're questioning their place in the world. it is often a very sort of suicidal crisis. we see a lot of overlap between suicide and homicide in these cases. a mass shooting is intended to be a final act. in regard to that, people who

perpetrate mass shootings are searching for answers, meaning in life. so they go searching for the other mass shooters who have done these types of crimes previously. they identify with those individuals. they get radicalized in chatrooms online or reading the manifestos of those individuindividuals.and the laso firearms. we see all four of those steps as opportunities for ind ventio intervention. >> dickerson: jillian peterson, one of the things you've written is to change the mindset about the way we think about these shooters, that they are us. so how does that help in these moments of crisis? where, for example, would you seek a policy intervention, if you've changed that mindset, if that is the first step?

>> yeah, i think we tend to think of the perpetrators who do this as just these evil monsters kind of lurking out there. of course what they do is monsterous, but before they do it, they are our classmates, our nieces or nephews, our neighbors, they're children going to the school. these tend to be insiders, not outsiders. so the most likely perpetrator of a school shooting is in the classroom. when we recognize that, i think it kind of shifts our mindset to make us start noticing some of the signs of a crisis, tho notice when people are leaking their plans or talking about this kind of violence or talking about suicide. so our research really points to things like suicide intervention, crisis training, building crisis response teams in schools and having those systems in place to catch people before they do this. >> dickerson: dr. densley, it is about having therapists in every school? is that the best way to deal

with these moments of crisis? >> i think what is interesting about this is a lot of the measures that we would take to prevent mass shootings don't just prevent mass shootings. so we're talking about measures with a broad diffusion of benefits. this is about trying to capture any student who is struggling in the classroom or anybody in a workplace who is feeling out of place. it could be a case of getting therapists or counselors. we definitely want to improve the student/counselor ratio in our schools. the investment in school security tends to be more physical measures. we don't recognize that smaller class sizes or having resources for mental health is also school safety. we're trying to prevent not just mass shootings but also accidental shootings or suicide and other forms of gun violence. we're trying to ensure that people are thriving in their schools and work places. it is all part of the solution

to this problem. >> dickerson: dr. peterson, based on the work you have done, i wonder if you can help me understand a couple of things. one, if these are insiders in these instances, how do that affect the proposal to lock up the schools? and what does your research show you about the drills, the preparedness drills, as they deal with these students. and, also, if these are suicides, how does that affect the idea that a good person with a gun can stop a bad person with a gun? >> yeah. i think once you recognize that the most likely perpetrator is a opporstudent in that school hads actively suicidal, it makes us think twice about some of these measures. so things like security, i think make us feel secure, they look secure, it is something kind of tangible, but the reality is the perpetrator is likely walking in and out of that security every

day. you want to have teachers and students prepared for the worst-case scenario, but the most likely scenario is that perpetrator is running through all of those drills along with everyone else. if the perpetrator is coming in with a goal of being killed -- we talked to perpetrators who said i did this shooting because i wanted to go in and be shot by the school resource officer. so it becomes an incent in somen some of those cases. >> dickerson: dr. densley, what should we think about your work. for example, how about the change of changing the age of gun purchase to 21? how does it match up with your research? >> that's a great question. it is often such a divisive issue. we approach this as researchers

and not as sort of part of an issue. the evidence is actually very clear about this. if you want to have a big impact quickly, then the action is with the firearms. this is not about an infringement about second amendment rights, it is about reasonable measures. some of the things being touted, age restrictions for accessing an assault rifle, or safe storage, or universal background checks, or doing something around magazine size and magazine restrictions for these ffirearms, the evidence is realy clear that these measures could have prevented some of the mass shootings that could have occurred that we have documented in the data base, and we can ensure that these firearms are not falling into the wrong hands. time and time again we see these are individuals who are in crisis. something like the red-flag laws that are being discussed are

really quite interesting. because if this is a person in crisis, that is not the time they should be going out and purchasing a firearm. this would be a temporary restriction on somebody's ability to do that. it is just temporary. but it gets them that help so they're not using that gun for a mass shooting or any other situation. >> dickerson: jillian peterson, what about incidents in which someone was stopped before one of these mass shootings. what have you learned from that? >> we also studied cases where somebody planned to do a mass shooting and changed their mind. even cases where the perpetrator actually went into the school with a gun in his backpack and didn't fire it. what is interesting about these pcases is time and time again, t seems to be a human connection, just a bit of hope that gets the person through that crisis point. it is somebody reaching out and connecting with them. i think it is so important that we're talking about, you know, gun control and threat

assessment and these bigger policies. but then at the end of the day, sometimes it is just literally a human connection with another adult or person that can get them through the moment. >> dickerson: we've run out of time. thank you both for your work and for being with us today. we'll bwe'll be back in a momen.

>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks so much for joining us. we'll be on the air tomorrow at 10:00 o'clock a.m. on cbs news and our streaming network, with the hearing into the january 6 the hearing into the january 6 attack.e. for "face the nation," i'm john dickerson. ♪♪ think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's...

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