> >> good morning and welcome to . i am ron swisher. it's the day of pentecost for some the birthing of the church as well as the church the birth where beware happy birthday. before we we broaden out mission and ministry on this dayp pentecoste last time you saw me was on eas. and i had two dynamic guests att time who told us a lot about easter, and i was so inspired i

asked him to come back.nd arablesed to have carol estes and jim hopkins. welcome back. >> good morning. >> thank you. >> you were so dynamic, ace sai, both of you, that we were on youtube for the first time. >> wow. >> and youtube celebrated the 1h year anniversary last week. so or last month, and therefore thy celebrated by having us on ther. >> i didn't get any word we wenl yet, though. >> right. >> so i know a lot of people knw a lot about easter at that time because of what you folks hear and so hopefully, they will feel will feel the same after hearint pentecost. but before we do that, carol, tell us a little about your background and your ministry. >> okay. i am a native san francisco, very proud to have bn born and raised here in the city. and grew up in the hate ash bury district and close to golden gate park. and, graduated

graduated from the graduate thel union in berkeley. i serve as a chaplain for the palliative cart at cares and also the senior pastor at elmhurst united methodist church in east oakland. >> great, great. and jim. >> i am a son of the intermountn west born in salt lake city, and and grew up in western coloradoe in oregon, ultimately graduated from fresno pacific college, the the american baptist seminary of of the west i am at chair of the the board of trustees at absw. d absw is sufficient such an impot place. my life. what i learned there i can't define myself witt that experience. spent sometime in loss locks and since 1989, i been the pastor at lake shore avenue baptist church on the corner of lake shore and been an bandaan in oakland where we are seek the peace of our city. >> that's 26 years. great. wellt

even giving you a memo, you are in red. and you know. >> spirit moves. >> right. the spirit moves. so, tell us about pentecost and if you are speaking to an audience, angathat knew thd you say first to them, carol. >> pentecost is a time where tht is moving to empower the people, instead of folk focusing on jes, jesus is then turning the table around to stay now it's your turn. you take it and you run with it. because we are the hands and the feet and the body in flesh of god. >> i like that. i like that. and that. and jim? >> i am thinking exactly the sae way. i had knowing this day was, i called a little gathering of some folks in our congregation and said tell me what you think about pentecost. i represent you. and one of the folks said y the same thing. pentecost is a

kind of graduation. jesus says as i have been physically with you, now you body of christ, you you are going to be physically t empowered by the spirit in the . and it's time for you to at the the . up and grow up. > >> i am of the bias that a lot f people do not put the emphasis on the pentecost. we do on advent christmas, we emphasize lent and easter. but will's no especially on the pentecost and the spirit. why do you think that is and am i right about that? >> i would like to think, and is sometimes a very sad commentary for us, because folk in our humanest want to follow and not be doers. so it's easier to say i am a follower of jesus christ, christ, but jesus teachings and

lessons seem to indicate more of of us doing and partnering and g so sometimes we want to be couc. and watch somebody else do the . >> thank you. thank you. >> i think a couple of things. e w we speak of the holy spirit as as holy ghost, i am not sure that really is an enduring term for a lot of folks. think that'. the second is, for a lot of chus that are not reesey emotional and this will say what does pentecost have to do with us, and we can be empoured by the spirit without be pentecostal in in our practice. and i think wed to claim that the spirit moves h us rather we are a quiet congren or loud congregation. the spirit spirit can be present and active and active and moving. >> very good. very good. we will will come back to that. thank you for the introduction to the spirit and to pentecost. we areh

carol estes and jim hopkins. ple join us.

have been talking about pentecot and that's why we are in the red red and in acts 2, you see a

diversity of people responding to the spirit. we have talked a lot about the spirit and your definition of the spirit. tell us a little more about what you think happen at pentecost. >> well, good question can be ad about pentecost was primarily auditory experience or primarily or primarily a hearing experience. was it speaking in tongues or hearing in a new wayd i don't know if we can solve that. i know listening is alway, and pentecost is a challenge to listen and hear each other in new ways and trust that the spirit will be in that process f be in that process of of earnes. >> would you add to that? >> i think that what jim was sa, it was definitely a process of d a process of i did discernment d feeling moving and presence of e

holy spirit that was not present not present to them before. espy with the absence of jesus. so there was more of a focal point of reference for them. what is that feeling, what is that movement? when you have somebody somebody who has such a dynamic personality as i think jesus had, and that aura, the energy can be focused there outwardly instead of inwardly. >> i was looking at some of thes on pentecost on this day, and not only do we have the acts 2, but you have the genesis the tower of babble opposite happens opposite happens and then you have an alternative passage in ezekiel the dry bones. i am not sure which you will focus on. bt i was look ahead to see what the what the scriptures are. what ir approach to some of the those scriptures? >> i like to add in john 19, wh. >> that's right. >> jesus comes into the closed m

with the disciples, they are locked behind doors in fear and he breathes on them the spirit and says go forgive. go forgive as i have forgiven you. and being practitioners of forgivens is one of the primary acts of the spirit filled community. >> i see. i see. and. >> and then go out to, as i wask at it, go out and be amongst all all people that god is not a god god of exclusion. that's why the the spirit shows up representing up representing so many different tongues, so many different languages so that it says i am here and available any open and accepting of all people. >> i like that. i like that. you that. you know in our society, right now, we are going through a lot of racial conflict, you know, not starting with ferguson, but further back, we e the new york and, of course, we had baltimore still on our heart heart and mind. do you see the spirit breaking down some of the

the visions and the conflicts that are going on? how would the the spirit work in that do you think? >> well. >> i think it's a complex situa, complex and challenging. and i think if folk were more willing to see that the spirit is in each of us, and that it is univ, and that there is no difference, no difference, but the spirit ig us to be humane towards one another so that we can have a conversation about our differen, but our similarities, so we can greet the light and the hope of god in us. we can stop warring against one another. especially in the african american communities. we need to see thet of god. and the presence of the holy spirit moving in each and e so we can stop doing harm a ourselves. >> >> very good. thank you. >> the spirit is about both truh and reconciliation. and we have to start with the truth. the

spitspirus of really harsh and awful realities, the racial disparities that continue to exist in our communities. dispas of opportunity and education, ultimately disparities of hope and the spirit starts first by g us of these. and then moves us forward to reconciliation and hope, but boy, there's no justice without some truth. >> exactly. >> and we have to start with th. and one of the things we see ine scriptures that the spirit somes convicts and says this is not r. and this is not right at least s a first step to move forward. >> those are excellent thoughtsy both of you. i thought of when you talked about truth and reconciliation, i thought about the arch bishop desmond tutu and and bringing people together and and asking them to confess and then forgiveness and reconcilian comes. >> if pentecost could result ina

movement like that in our commu, oh, my goodness. >> it would be tremendous. he shouted among the people to have to have this raise their hands and shout, vsp have i means verl people. and he says we are very special people because god loves loves us. and we made an image of god. and that it's not something we earn, it's the gift gift of god. so he wanted everyone to know that. and not just his own people burks all people, which is what you've been saying. >> on pentecost, we could say vp is very spirited people. >> yeah. very good. good. >> absolutely. >> we are going to come back tos spirited conversation and thank you for being with us. please join us with carol and jim hopkins. carol estes emwill hurst and jim at lake shore bap.

>> welcome back do mosaic. this is pentecost and we have been tg about the power of the spirit breaking down barriers and uniting us and bringing us together. i was telling my colleagues at my conyes gation congregation i try tone courage them to wear read. and what's the symbol of the red. >> the fire, the spirit. the tht of the movement of the holy spirit. that just lights us up.e vibrancy and celebetory color in in different cultures, they wear wear red instead black. because it is a marking of celebration. >> okay. >> yeah. it's the tongues of

flame that descend on us, so carol said it exactly correctly. correctly. >> you mentioned earlier that ss communities feel if they are pel or charismatic they don't have the spirit. some pentecostal or charismatic doesn't feel they have the spirit unless they have motion. can you say more about that. >> that continues and has been n in the life of the church since that first pentecost. paul talks talks about it. the how did the gift of tongues fit into our life together, and he struggles with it and says it's a gift, but it shouldn't be regarded as the mark, if you don't have it you are not part of the family.t shouldn't be any sense of spewey but he struggle with it and if i i don't feel great passion, if i i not ready to shout, does that mean the spirit left me out? i got answer in my experience, noe

spirit sometimes is a still, small voice. and we have to own that perspective as well. >> absolutely. >> i think the spirit most of a, and which you've all seemed to allude to, the fact it brings a community that loves one anothe, and is able to proclaim that word and hear the word. >> yes. >> i think so. >> and it invites us to go outse and share that word. and what does it look like? it doesn't have to look like what you are sharing looks like. it doesn't have to look like what jim's sharing looks like. but it looks looks like a powerful peaceful way and how spirit is inspirings communal and individually. becae it's an about the good news. >> i came across a wonderful que from helen keller the other dayw said the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, and and even cannot be heard, but hs to be felt with the heart.

>> amen. >> but it seems like pentecost,u are able to see it and hear it and feel it. >> well, i like to -- since youd helen kerl and for many viewers who don't know, i am visually impaired. and so, as a result o, folks often ask how is it you kw that somebody's inter -- i feel the energy and i think that's we my thrust of mist try comes from from internal feeling and i am always inviting folk to go in ad feel the power of the holy spirit moving and empowering you you and inviting you to activity. so that it may not be this magical mystical think. it may not be something that just,, but it may be just the silent moving of the inward motion that that you can feel that brings you such joy that warms your heart, and it changes you in that instance. >> that's powerful. i imagine

people who come to you for counseling will feel that. is tt because, you think, of the extra extra dimension you have. >> i think because i don't see , i feel you. and i have to listey carefully for the nuances that e being spoken that i might not see in your body language. >> i see. >> in order for me to kind of gt a gist of what's being said bece sometimes we get trapped in the. we are looking to see where is d moving when god could absolutely could absolutely be moving inside, but we are not listenine we are more focus on the physical scene. and witnessing. >> that's dynamic. >> jim. >> you hear young people ask do you feel me and what could mean to you hear or understand me, du respect me? it could be a

spiritual question. are we connecting? i think it's an important question for pentecost. do you feel me? >> that's great. that's great. >> and i think it's also importt to set an intention of peace inwardly. because that energy of of peace can be felt outwardly.n the young people are saying that saying that do you feel me coming authenticly with peace and us models, us senior community, if we set an intention of peace how that can be so -- pervasive in our comm. >> that takes us back to the yog people that takes to the street, most that's what they are saying saying do you feel me? do you feel news do you feel our pain and how are we addressing that. >> yeah dr. king said that. the cry or the rise of the cry of the unheard. >> yes. >> so we know that does not jusy it. >> no. >> but it explains some of the .

>> yes. >> absolutely. >> because i know a the love pee say, wow, why are they rioting, and we endorse that, or embrace that, we hurt along with that. t we understand it. >> the pain being expressed ther to the pain is policy, and law,d it's just also a spiritual answer. there's a deep cry for spiritual reality to speak to the pain that the young people are feeling. >> you alluded to the inequity n our society. it's just so great. great. >> yeah. >> and with the pentecostal mov, and i am not saying a pentecostl movement, but the pentecost of the movement, it is calling us to be at the table. that's why it was given to everybody. equa. for us to be at the table and hr one another. >> amen we have to come back toe last segment burks you have brot

tremendous invitement to the spirit. join us for the last segment on mosaic. i am ron swisher. it's great to host the two great guests with us.

>>i am flip ron swisher and it's and it's been a great joy to have this program on pentecost.i mentioned earlier that we were n youtube, and i am sure this is on youtube thanks to kpix, becae this is a lot of information about pentecost. but it's because of reverend carol estes

of elmhurst and reverend jim hopkins of lake shore has been with us. in the final few minut, what would you add to what you've said. anything we can walk away with on that spirit? e you've said so much. >>i am thinking about during mat lake shore we have an emphasis n caring for creation. on pentecost we will talk about the of fresh air with the spirit and and fresh air and that the challenges to all of us is receive a breath of fresh air ad be a fresh air bush -- breath of of fresh air in your communitie. >> that's good. >>-to play with that analogy anw important fresh air is in this -- our planet right now. >> i recall when i was oakland u were active in the community, community organizing. and i am sure some of that affects your . >> in fact there's an organizatn based in san francisco called california interfaith power and light that. >> that's right.

>> that addresses ecological co, creation care concerns. so pentecost a breath breath of frh air. >> i think embrace church has l. >> i think they come out of grae church. >> and carol. >> recognizing pentecost comes 40 days afterees easter. it's our gift we are given through pentecost through the spirit to be empowered to be motivated and and inspired to get up and become active, and go out foot world and do some good. do some good. as we talked last tight yu know, time, we inspired by the t of to feed people, to address the need where there's a food desert. so, i say, be inspired, be empowered by the ho holy spi. be not afraid. it takes each and

and everyone of us to become acy involved to pick a a change and a change for the better. >> amen. >> perfect love cast out fear. >> yes. >> so, you expressed that great. >> that garden is putting oxygek into the environment. >> absolutely. >> and some good food and folks. >> you know, we only have few se seconds, but christmas is a long long time, and advent, easter has time, pentecost sometimes has that one day. we should expand that. >> we have to do more to -- do t we can in the time that we can and not let it just be about one about one day. but that we keep going back so we can refresh our our memory. >> amen. >> you talked about broadening n the christian calendar ordinary time follows pentecostal and some changed ordinary time to growing time. >> okay good. good thank you

both. >> thank you. >> elmhurst is on. >> 1659, 83rd avenue off plymouh on the corner in the sunshine. >> amen. and lake shore. >> corn >> corn of lake shore and landaa on bus line 26. >> thank you for being with us.e join them in their worship services and you are welcomed to to mine in fairfield community.i am ron swisher. it's great to have you this morning on pentec.

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