i'm jane pauley. please join us when our trumpet sounds again next "sunday morning." i'm major garrett and this week on "face the nation" we'll dive into one of the most closely watched governor's races in the country and problems facing americans at home and abroad. we have new cbs polls in michigan, wisconsin, and arizona. in back-to-back appearances we'll hear from republican kari lake and democrat katie hobbs as they are running dead even to be arizona's next governor. then, financial markets remain jumpy and recession anxieties got more fuel after the opec cartel cut oil production. we will check in with top economist mohamed el erian about the road ahead. a key bridge linking the

crimea with russia. we will have a report from the region. it's all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ good morning. welcome to "face the nation." margaret brennan is off. we have new cbs battleground tracker polls. gretchen whitmer is leading her republican challenger tudor dixon 53% to 47%. in wisconsin the governor's race between democratic incumbent tony evers and businessman tim michels is deadlocked with both candidates at 50%. in the senate race ron johnson is polling at 50% against his democratic rival mandela barnes, who is at 49%. we also learned last week in

arizona incumbent democratic senator mark kelly is narrowly ahead of his republican challenger blake masters, 51% to 48%. joining us now to discuss all of this is cbs news elections and surveys director anthony salvanto. good morning. catch us up on tdynamics of thee races. >> good morning. arizona and michigan are two out of the five that will ultimately control the chamber. they're both close for reasons across all of these races, that is, it's the economy against abortion. which is to say, democrats are winning voters who are concerned about abortion. that's happening in wisconsin. mandela barnes is getting almost three-quarters of those who say it's very important. the economy, republicans are winning voters who say the economy is most important. going to punish the party in power and that's the democrats. he's getting two-thirds of them. having said that, each ■party is sort of jockeying to try to add another set of issues to that

list. and on the republican side, one of those is crime. so, they're running attack ads, trying to tie democrats to this unpopular position. and it is unpopular in wisconsin of defunding the police. when voters perceive, if they perceive that barnes supports defunding the police, that's their perception, then they aren't voting for him. and he's behind johnson on the idea of will their policies keep you safe. now, democrats for their part would like to add this issue of election integrity, threats to democracy after the attempts to overturn 2020. >> under that banner of threats to democracy, some republicans won their primaries by denying or questioning the 2020 election. to what degree is that position either being embraced or backed away from or having an effect on the general elections they find themselves in now? >> look, for republicans it was almost a litmus test in their

primaries. they're still supporting their candidates regardless of their stance. there's a little bit of evidence that the position of trying to overturn 2020 hurts republicans in this sense, if you look at independents who believe that ron johnson, again, their perception, was trying to overturn the election, thaey're not voting for him. the way it all connects is on candidate qualities. arizona, a majority of people say that they prefer their elected officials, say that joe biden won, which he did. now, when you look at voters who say that they think that the candidates are -- republican candidate is talking about 2020, they're more likely to label that candidate as extreme as opposed to mainstream. and that goes towards candidate qualities where democrats have tended to have an advantage. those are the dynamics at work here. >> anthony salvanto, thank you very much. >> thank you. now to the race for governor of arizona, our latest poll shows democrat katie hobbs and

republican kari lake tied at 49%. they have not scheduled a debate but they're here to answer our questions. each candidate will have 8:30. we intend to cover the same issues with each candidate. our ability to cover this ground, of course, will be influenced in no small measure by the length of the candidates' answers. first, kari lake who joins us from phoenix. good morning. welcome to "face the nation." >> good morning, major. thank you so much for having me on. just to clarify, i have agreed to any and all debates and i'll be taking part in one without my opponent next week, on the 12th. i would love it if she would show up because i think there's a lot of important issues the people of arizona need to hear about. >> we'll get to that, i promise. your website is detailed and specific on the question of immigration and border security. you call, if elected as go governor, for arizona to join other states to form what you call a compact to carry out

border security separate from the federal government, including arrests and detention. for the benefit of arizona voters, can you explain the legal and practical application of this approach? >> well, of course, if you know the constitution, you know that article 4, section 4 calls for the federal govrnment to protect us from invasion. under joe biden's lack of leadership, we just aren't seeing that. we have an invasion at our border. the cartels, these in. arco terrorist groups have operational control and they're using arizona to smuggle people, to traffic children and to traffic the most dangerous drug we've ever seen, fentanyl. we're going to invoke our article 1, section 10, basically, authority to take care of our own border and protect our own border. it's right there in black in white in the constitution. we meet all three criteria. we have an invasion, our people are of imminent danger and time is of the essence. we will have other states offer help. i have a couple of governors willing to help out.

i know if you ask people in other states that are not border states, they deem this crisis on the border as one of the top issues facing our country. >> would arizona -- >> so many young people dying of fentanyl poisoning right now. >> would arizona go it alone if they didn't get this compact agreement with other states? >> yes, we will. i believe we'll get other help. i've talked to other governors and they're vowing to help out, because whatever comes into arizona, fentanyl, people coming illegally, children being trafficked, it doesn't stay in arizona. it goes to all 50 states. i spoke to a mother and father who lost their son. it's tragic. we're losing more people to fentanyl in arizona since joe biden took office than we lost in 9/11 or during covid. >> if, as there would likely be federal challenges were presented, would you as governor await for those federal challenges to this state compact be resolved? and would you respect them if they were to, in any way,

impinge upon or restrict or nullify the state compact approach? >> we will -- we'll challenge the federal government. if they're going to challenge us, i think we have the right to do this and we'll have attorneys file lawsuits as well. we're not going to back down and let our people be overrun with drugs, watch children die. we had a 16-year-old die here in the metro area last week from a fentanyl overdose. we can't keep having this happen. we're losing our young generation. i hope that joe biden doesn't fight us because then it would really look like he's on the side of the cartels. and i don't think he wants people to think that. >> your website also says that washington, d.c., incentivizes illegal immigration to satisfy, quote, big business lust for cheap labor. does that big business lust reside in arizona at all? >> i think it resides everywhere. we saw it with nancy pelosi last week. it was the most racist thing i've heard her say.

although she's said quite a few things. she said these illegal people coming in should go pick fruit. i couldn't hear my ears, major, when i heard that. we want to make sure our working class and middle class are healthy. democrats used to care about the working class. now they don't. they want to see 5 million people come in. where are they staying? they're not staying on the streets. it's american citizens who are homeless and taking jobs from hard-working arizonans. we're going to start putting arizona first and protecting our citizens in this state. >> nominee lake, our polling shows that abortion is a very important issue to arizona voters. you have been quoted as saying, arizona will be a state where we will not be taking the lives of our unborn any more. you've also more recently been quoted as saying that in arizona, abortion should be rare and legal. are those statements consistent? >> i was in an interview when i said that, and i was telling the interviewer that when abortion

was first presented, they said it should be -- it should be rare, safe and legal. now it's become anything but rare. in katie hobbs' world, and you can ask her about this. i not she's coming up next. they're for abortion right up until birth. if you are in the hospital in labor, the abortionists are for giving you an abortion if you desire one. >> what are you for? >> we need to draw the line somewhere. i am going to be the executive of the state, the chief executive officer, and i will follow the law. the law right now as it stands is governor deucy's law at 15 weeks. we'll follow the law. >> would you want abortions closer to 15 weeks? >> may i finish? >> sure. >> i'm a woman. i'm a mother. i'm all for women's health care. i come from a large family. seven sisters. of course i want women's health care. this has moved beyond health care. we're not giving women choices. i'm for giving women true choices. when they walk into an abortion

center, they're only given one choice. they're not told that you have the choice to keep your baby and we can help and here's how, or we can help you find a loving family who will adopt your baby. i want to give women true choices. i will uphold the law, whatever that law is. and i want to see to it that we save more lives. right now the democrats have started pushing so far from that rare but safe, to anything goes, up to nine months of pregnancy, after birth. katie hobbs, my opponent, has actually voted for, you look at her voting record, allowing a baby who survives an abortion that the hospital would refuse medical care and allow the baby to die on a cold, metal tray. >> we will take that up with katie hobbs, i guarantee you. this week, nominee lake, a 64-year-old iowa man was arrested and charged for threatening to lynch maricopa county supervisor clint hickman. in reaction, hickman said, people in position of influence and leadership in arizona are

silent. how can you be silent? do you have a reply for mr. hickman? and would you support and do you support federal and state prosecution of anyone who threatens the lives of an election worker? >> i think that anyone who threatens anyone's lives should be detained and questioned. i'm not for violence in any way. and i should remind you that, you know, during covid, when a lot of americans were faced with not being able to use their free speech to speak out against what was happening, they were losing their jobs, they were losing their businesses, they were being forced to get shots that they didn't want, people were being bullied and attacked and also threatened during that time. i think we need to get back to where we have free speech and we shouldn't be threatening people. i hope they arrest that man and detain him. >> earlier this week, blake masters, as you know, republican nominee for the senate, said he has not seen evidence, of vote counting problems or election results that would have changed the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. he also said president biden is the legitimate president.

do you agree? >> i think we have major problems in our election system. and it goes back to 2000. we had democrats saying the 2000 election wasn't fair. they were complaining the 2004 election wasn't fair. 2016, kamala harris spoke out and said that the electronic voting machines were hacked in front of her eyes. and nobody called them election deniers. and now all of a sudden in 2020, garrett, we don't have free speech anymore. we can't speak out against our own elections. all i'm asking for is the ability to speak out when our government does something wrong, we should be able to speak out against it. >> do you agree with the statement blake masters made? >> i'm not going to take on what blake said. i'm going to take on what i said. what i say is we have problems in our election. they haven't been solved in 2016. they weren't solved in '18. just a month or two ago during our primary election, and i'm sure your viewers don't even know this, katie hobbs' office advised the counties on how many ballots to print.

this was two months ago. and they under -- >> nominee lake -- >> they ran out of republican-only ballots one hour into voting. >> nominee lake -- >> we have to restore honesty to our elections. >> in fairness and timing to you and katie hobbs, we have to end it there. thank you for being with us on "face the nation." "face the nation" will be back in one minute. stay with us. if you haven't tried dawn powerwash dish spray, what are you waiting for? it's dawn's fastest and easiest way to clean everyday dishes. on simple messes...

just spray, wipe and rinse. on tough messes, its spray activated suds have five times faster grease cleaning power to break down grease without water. plus, its targeted spray cleans even hard to reach places better. so, replace your dish soap with dawn powerwash and spray your dishes clean. now to katie hobbs, the democratic nominee for governor and also in phoenix this morning. secretary hobbs, good morning. welcome to "face the nation." so, your opponent said you don't want to debate. i'd like to ask you, are there any conditions under which you would agree to debate kari lake so the voters of arizona could hear from the two of you, in real-time side by side? >> what i've focused on are opportunities where they can see us back to back and hear from us about issues important to arizonans and how we would

govern without a circus like she created during the gop republican primary. i have no desire to be a part of the spectacle she's looking to create because that doesn't do any service to the voters of arizona, to hear from us where we sound on the issues and how we would govern. >> so, sometimes voters learn things from moments of duress or challenge or circus. don't you think you're strong enough to handle any kind of circus kari lake might present, if she were to present one? don't the arizona voters deserve to see that real? >> i think the voters of arizona have had a chance to see how i work under crisis throughout my leadership during the 2020 election as secretary of state. when we had to combat multiple election challenges from former president trump and his band of election deniers, including my opponent, kari lake. >> so, i want to ask you about immigration. we had a long conversation with kari lake about that. last night you tweeted, arizona bears the brunt of the failures

of u.s. immigration policies. now, by our count, that is your second tweet in a month about immigration. who specifically is responsible for this failure? and why only now did you decide to share that sentiment with your twitter followers? >> oh, this is certainly not the first time i've spoken out about immigration in this campaign. we are a border state and immigration is a very important issue to arizona voters. and as a border state, we have borne the brunt of decades of inaction in washington from both parties to address both border security and comprehensive immigration reform. and we need the federal government to step up. but what i want to be really clear about is that my opponent's positions on this issue are nothing but empty rhetoric. she's not offering real solutions. when she talked about invoking the constitutional authority of the state, she's talking about declaring an invasion at our southern border. that would do absolutely nothing to increase border security, but

it would bring up told levels of chaos into our state. it's not a real solution. i have a border security plan that's been endorsed by two border sheriffs because they know that it's going to focus real solutions and bring meaningful relief and help them make their communities safer. >> as a practical matter, were arizonans safer under immigration policies of the present administration or the one just before it? >> look, we've had a pretty bad immigration policy for decades. we need to get comprehensive immigration reform done. and it's both parties in congress have been dragging their feet to get this done. >> but when you say there's a failure of current immigration policy, that's a biden o cf1 o administration failure, is it not, by definition? >> look, trump centered his whole immigration policy around finishing the wall. and it's not done. and -- but biden needs to step up immigration and border

security, absolutely. arizona is bearing the brunt of illegal drug trafficking, gun trafficking and smuggling. and we do need more border security. it's not going to get done by declaring an invasion at the border or dismantling the fbi, which is another thing that my opponent has called for. >> on the question of abortion, your opponent described you as something of an extremist. those are her words, not ours. do you support the current 15-week ban in arizona or would you seek a different approach? and is there a week limit different than 15 weeks you are in favor of? if so, why? >> i don't support the 15-week ban. but let me just say that kari lake is entirely misconstruing my position on this issue. you and i both know late-term abortion is extremely rare. i it's being talked about, it's because something has gone incredibly wrong in a pregnancy. a doctor is not going to perform

an abortion late in a pregnancy just because somebody decided they want one. that is ridiculous. she's saying this to distract from her incredibly extreme position, which she's gone on the record saying she supports arizona's complete abortion ban, that is in the courts right now being decided if that will be the law of arizona or not. she's called it a great law. she's called people who seek abortion murderers and executioners. and under a kari lake administration, we would have government mandated forced births that risk women's lives. and her position is the one that's extreme, it's out of touch with where the majority of arizonans are who support access to safe and legal abortion. and under her administration, women would not be safe. >> what would the hobbs' administration week limit be for abortion access? if it's not 15 weeks, what is

it? >> look, abortion is a very personal decision that belongs between a woman and her doctor. the government and politicians don't belong in that decision. we need to let doctors perform the care that they are trained and take an oath to perform. >> if an arizona voter were to conclude from your previous answer that you do not favor any specific week limit on abortion, would they be correct? >> i susppport leaving the decision between a woman and her doctor and leaving politicianings out of it. >> the economy is important to arizona voters. on that issue the economy generally, inflation specifically, according to our data, you trail your opponent. what is your approach to inflation and the economy in arizona? why is yours superior to that of your opponent? >> first, let me say i'm the only candidate in this race who

is not a millionaire. my husband and i raised our kids through financial ups and downs. i know the struggle that a lot of arizonans are feeling right now, having to stretch to put food on the table, thinking about taking a second job or not being able to pay the mortgage. and so we have a comprehensive plan to address the rising costs that arizonans are facing right now that will put money back in their pockets and cut taxes on all kinds of everyday items like over-the-counter medication, school supplies, diapers, feminine hygiene products. we provide a state level child tax credit and tax credits for people who want to go back to work in higher paying jobs to get career and technical education. economists have looked at my affordability plan next to kari lake's plan and says my plan does put people back to work and help them fight inflation and that kari lake's plan will actually make inflation worse. >> do you identify yourself with

the biden economic plan, inflation-fighting plans? if so, would you invite the president to campaign alongside you in arizona? >> i'm focused on the race here in arizona and the needs of arizonans. it's a race between myself and kari lake and the ideas that we're bringing to the table. >> and one more time before we let you go, because i think it is on the mind of arizona voters, are you saying this morning that there is no circumstance that you can envision or would even try to negotiate in which you and kari lake would appear at a debate together before the election? >> at this point in the race, with 30 days to go, our schedule in terms of forums is pretty much set. and i'm really happy with where we are in the plans we have to continue talking directly to the voters of arizona. >> katie hobbs, secretary of state of arizona, democratic nominee for governor, thank you very much. we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation."

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[captioning funded by cbs sports division] fund [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> it is week five and time to get going. josh allen then for over 300 yards game and leads the bills in rushing. >> kenny pickett making his first nfl start. hrrblgs week had two rushing