good morning. welcome to mosaic. on behalf of arch diocese of san francisco. the human body and human life, our age, really the last 40 years, has been a time of incredible progress. breakthroughs in the laboratory, pioneering techniques in surgical theater, great advances in pharmacology, interventions in clinical setting. the layman, nonscientist like me can

scarcely keep up with the news. we have crisper technology. i am not sure i know what that means. yesterday i read something about uterine transplants. we content ourselves with saying things like we have medical miracles. these are not miracles. they're techniques. they're applications of new knowledge and in many cases trials and experiments. if you have a technique, you are going to have some cost and you are going to have consequences and there will be benefits as well. i want to understand those and i have a guest who can tell us about them. jennifer is a medical professional, the founder of a local institution that's become an internationally known study for center of bioethics. thank you for joining us. come back in a moment and we'll talk about bioethic.

hello. welcome to mosaic. our guest today is jennifer lyle. your face may already be familiar to viewers much television shows. i read you are frequently interviewed on television and radio. abc, cbs, pbs, npr. you are a medical professional by original training, right? now you are

the president of center for the study of bioethics in pleasant hill, california. so you resident the east bay. are you a local girl? did you grow up here? how did you get to california? >> i have been here since high school so i consider myself a local girl. i married a third generation san franciscan. i am a nurse by training and was a pediatric critical care nurse. my first job was in san francisco at uc san francisco. i did practice nursing for almost 20 years before founding center for bioethics and culture. i can't believe it but it's been 20 years. time flies. >> definitely. what caused you to take that step? >> yeah. well, i love medicine, science, technology and

certainly working in pediatric critical care nursing at major university hospitals, we were always on the cutting edge of a technology, new treatment, new therapy. but i was also interested in the ethics of all the advancements, not just because we can do something doesn't always mean we should do something so i went to graduate school and studied bioethics. >> i noticed the advanced degree. >> it was part of my work that founded the center that i now run. >> the center is an educational nonprofit 501c3 in california. i mention it is internationally known and this is the fact, you have testified at the un, have spoken in foreign countries. people are interested in the knowledge you have. >> obviously these issues aren't just unique to the united states because we have sick people all around the world or people interfacing with the medical profession. i get around. >> bioethics and culture. this is a catholic show. you are not

a catholic. >> correct. >> lutheran. may i er. i work closely with many on areas wher agree. >> wonderful. tell us r bioes d joit does. >> we are heavily involved in an area where we put it under the head light. you whisper gene editing, present production, novel ways to make human life. you mention uterine and womb transplants, artificial wombs. we are heavily involved in that space. so we write and we do media and we produce documentary films all to help educate people. one of our important elements is we want the public to be involved in the conversations. we all have a voice and we all have something at stake.

>> so your audience, how do you reach out? do you reach out to younger people? do you have seminars, broadcasts? you make movies. i have seen a couple. where are these released? >> all are available on amazon. those that want to go to the website can find our films on amazon. we have towomen's reprtive health. i am insted women's reproductive health and certainly as a nurse. we reach out to young people. we are involved in social media which is where young people spend their time, on twitter and facebook. all the time disseminating information and educating people, we have a weekly e-mail news letter that tries to make these more sciencey technological issues accessible to lay people who don't have degrees in science or medicine. >> i am interested in these things. i don't have a personal

stake in any of them. i would like to know more. i noticed on your website, you have information sheets, fact sheets you call them. three things to know about x, y, z. >> yes. we have quite a few. our film rmveen on tiong men ly dy. wehave fact sh in to know a donation, sort of breaks down some of the risk, some of the realities of making that decision. we want people to be informed when they make decisions. we have one on surrogacy. >> yes. >> i am involved in the global debates around commercial surrogacy. so we have three things you should know about surrogacy. >> these are on your website. >> yes, just pdfs free for information. >> i mentioned in my opening that these are techniques and

techniques always have benefits perhaps but have costs and consequences. you try to inform people about both side? >> sure, sure. we absolutely do. we are not antitechnology. i took a car here today and was answering e-mails on my smart phone. we know that even with a car, there is risk. >> yes. >> we want people to be informed. there are risks to young women's health that might make decision to sell or donate eggs or to be a surrogate for somebody. we want people to have all the information so decision. ormed >> haveno id what of the indust donation industry is. how many young women are involved? >> we don't really track. that's sort of one of the realities of this practice in the world really. it's a multi, multi billion dollar a year industry, the area of fertility medicine. i would put it under that umbrella. it's a very large industry but it's new. so

which don't really have good figures and data and numbers and tracking of how many people are doing this. >> but yet it is known and you say there are consequences or difficulties or risks involved for the person donating the egg. >> sure, sure. these are healthy young women. usually you take medicine because you are sick. you weigh risk benefit. i am sick so i will take this medicine that i know has risks or side effects but i need to get well. there are risks to certainly healthy women who take medicine. >> we'll talk more. we're going to take a brief break and come back for another session with jennifer lyle.

welcome back. we are talking with jennifer lyle, rn,

ma, founder and president of the center for bioethics and culture in pleasant hill. we were talking about risks of modern brand new interventions and techniques. one you have studied is egg donation and another is surrogacy. there are risks to the women involved and you have education to offer about these. >> yes. i encourage anybody listening to do watch our films. they're great documentary films where we actually talk with young women who have done this and sort of walk through their experiences and what went wrong. >> these are readily available on your website. >> yes. >> we will run a slide later that gives your domain name and url and all that. all the resources we are talking about, whether they're video or print or other are on your website. >> absolutely. if you think of

the young healthy egg donor who sees an ad perhaps in her school newspaper. my daughters went to uc berkeley. >> the newspaper in new york are also on the subway. >> yes. they'll see the ads and think oh i can help somebody. and oh that money will help a lot. >> that money will help pay my college tuition. >> what happens, not always, but often, they take the powerful fertility drugs and undergo a surgical procedure to harvest a bunch of eggs that will be sold. there are serious short and longterm consequences to doing that. similarly with surrogacy. most people don't realize a surrogate pregnancy has above and beyond natural risks of spontaneous. in california a few weekends ago last month we had a surrogate mother in san diego who died. so it comes with risk. in our films we tell the story of

women who saw the advertisements and thought this was a great way to help somebody. they were sympathetic to somebody who couldn't have children who wanted to have children and also thought that the financial incentive would be beneficial. >> okay. let me ask, what is the great interest in surrogacy? it seems to me, aren't there adoptable children already born wanting and needing homes? >> i argument i hear often for people interested in advancing surrogacy will say this allows people to have a genetic child, biologically related child. when you adopt, you are not biologically related to the child. in the case of the surrogate, she might be carrying your genetic child for you and your wife or you and your husband. that's sort of the argument which i think is sort of unfortunate. we do know there are many children clearly in san francisco in the foster

care system that can benefit from a home. >> yes. and we see news stories about these even if you are not a professional in the field. you learn there are contract difficulties and legal difficulties that haven't been solved. >> yeah. and there are economic disparities. you will see a people magazine cover with celebrities having a baby through surrogacy but don't see a similar magazine that shows a celebrity being surrogate for low income. it is economic and that's how i bring together many different voices to help educate people on all angles of the story. >> i know you do have a large cohort of medical professionals. we'll talk about that in detail later. let me ask you of this because this is

of interest. your film eggsploitation, pretty good pun, is a pretty big hit. >> once somebody buys it, you don't know if they showed it to 500 people or watched by themselves at home. it has been put into four or five different languages. it won at a film festival. it's been recognized. it is an important film that just keeps being watched and shown and purchased from people around the world. >> it's probably an important tool for young women to get a hold of, the target audience for the egg donation harvesters. >> i am on university campuses all the time screening the film and young women will say thank you for your work. i get ads all the time on my facebook. i see them in the campus

newspapers. they're grateful for the information. >> wonderful. let me ask you then a little bit, you have these educational tools for the laymen, the common person easily available, readily accessible and pretty nifty. >> right. >> i have looked at some of these. then you have an intellectual side to your institute. >> right. >> this is called the paul ramsey. >> institute. >> okay. you are the center for bioethics and culture and you also have the paul ramsey institute. as i understand it is an institute studying bioethics and named for paul ramsey. tell me about paul ramsey. >> i had to read a lot of paul ramesses writings, the late great paul ramsey of princeton. he had anen dowed position in the department. he was on the forefront of looking at the shift from medical ethics to bioethics. we have this

institute which is two year fellowship program where young men and women from around the world are applying for a coveted spot. we are only able to accept a few. one of our first paul ramsey fellows wrote the very famous book when breath becomes air. he was a neurosurgeon at stanford when diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. just to give an insight of the caliber of people attracted to this two year fellowship where they study with a psychologist at irvine, an ameritus professor of ethics. >> that's great. we'll take a brief break and talk again with jennifer lyle.

hello. welcome back. we are talking with jennifer lyle. you mentioned paul cal anthony. that was a book i read. it was a best seller. he was a neurosurgeon at stanford, young married man with stage 4 cancer suddenly. during his last few months of life he got treatments which were unsuccessful and wrote a wonderful best selling book. everyone read it a couple years ago. how is he associated with your work? >> paul was one of our first

paul ramsey institute fellows. our institute runs a fellowship where young men and women from different disciplines, law, phd students will apply. paul was in the first group when we launched paul ramsey institute. during his time with us he was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer and was writing when breath becomes air. >> a wonderful book. truly moving. you have top notch academics, medical professionals and so on from throughout the country who apply for a limited number of spots. they're there for a year, two years. >> two years. >> is there a physical location? >> we have the meetings in the san francisco bay area because our fellows are either students in md programs, phd programs, law programs, so they come to san francisco for a very long

weekend. we have scheduled readings and they wrestle and thk with our schoover two years, we g th y area. >> the training is in bioethics which some haven't encountered before. >> and a law student doesn't really understand the legality, gene editing, have to weigh in if we can do this or not. there are phd students going on hopefully to teach in universities. they'll be teaching students. so it is part of this are formation. they love it because it is multi disciplinary and cross discipline. law students are benefiting from hearing from medical students who are benefiting from hearing from phd students. good lively discussions. >> these professionals will take the learning back to their professional and distribute it

as well. >> exactly. and we are creating a network. so we have a strong alumni program. every year we have the paul ramsey dinner and all the alumni are invited to come to that event. so we are creating sort of a network of like minded individuals in difficult areas of professional work. >> i looked on your website. you are having your annual dinner. you give the paul ramsey award. that's april 4. >> april 4 in diablo, california. every year we recognize one person for their exemplary work in the field of bioethics. this year it is going to a law professor at george mason university. she'll be on hand to receive the paul ramsey prize. all our fellows will be there, scholars will be there. it's quite a gala event. it's a great way for people to

learn about the center for culture and paul ramsey institute and to meet cool young men and women that will change the world. >> so it's a dinner and the public is invited. >> yes. >> they can find your website or register for a table or ticket. >> yes. >> april 4. we would like to run a slide now briefly. we have one slide which will show how you can get in touch. center for bioethics and culture and that's your website. i put below this some colleagues or counterparts. what is that? >> national catholic bioethics center. i believe it is in philadelphia. >> i thought washington but maybe. >> maybe they moved. >> that's another center like yours on the other coast, catholic in description, catholic in teaching but doing the same work. that's wonderful. i want to encourage

people to support your work, to go to the dinner if that makes sense. i would like you to tell us how much is there to learn? should we go to your website every day and see another movie. >> i don't know about that. but i think getting on the e-mail mailing list is good. we send out a news letter a week. it's written for lay people. so if anybody thinks well i am not a doctor or scientist, i can't understand it. it is targeted to the lay person. it lets people know what's going on, activities coming up. we do have a really great study guide that's a free pdf that goes with our films. if people want to organize a film, organization a discussion in their parish or classroom. >> that's what i was thinking. if you are parish director of religious education, events manager, can you send a speaker? >> we have a speaker form

online. people can say i am having an event, looking for somebody to give a talk on whatever the topic is. >> wonderful. they can show your film. >> and they can make an appointment to visit in our office if they want to see us in pleasant hill. >> do you have anything with local catholic school districts? >> i have spoken at several of the catholic schools in the bay area, high schools and beyond. i have spoken at the catholic bishops conference in dallas. >> you are well acquainted with the archbishop. >> i am. he is a wonderful man. >> thank you for joining us and thank you for sharing a little bit. >> thank you. >> i want to encourage people to go to your website, get on your maying list, perhaps attend this wonderful dinner. >> wonderful. >> thanks very much for joining us on mosaic. we'll see you

next time.

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