cirkul at drinkcirkul.com good morning. welcome to mosaic. it's alwaa ege tohost on lf e interviewed me as i retired from united methodist church after 47 years. she mentioned also i am not going to retire from mosaic. not yet. it's always a great privilege to have the opportunity to host mosaic. i look forward to the months ahead and hopefully into the new year. one of the joys and privileges of hosting mosaic is

the guests that i have. thanks to people like troy with good media who contacted our host or i should say our guest who has been here before. i didn't know if we would get a chance to have him back. he is an actor, an activist. he is a comedian. he is a writer. he has done so much throughout the bay area and other parts of the country. we are blessed to have donald lacey back with us. welcome. >> hey reverend swisher, always great to be here. congratulations on your retirement. >> thank you very much. i look forward to the years ahead, relaxing. >> yes, sir. >> as i said earlier, there are probably very few people who don't know you because of all you have done and all you have accomplished. there are always a few here at 5:30 in the morning that might not know of your background. can you tell us about your background and what you have done? >> yes. thank you. i am from oakland, california, graduate of san francisco state

university. i actually have two degrees in theater arts and black studies. this year is the 50th anniversary by the way of the school of ethnic studies. >> i didn't know that. >> i got one of my degrees. >> great. >> i have been in show business most of my professional career acting, writing, directing, doing stand up. when my daughter was murdered on october 20, 1997, i put that on hold and started the foundation to honor her memory and work with at risk youth with what i know, media, entertainment, with the caveat that they put out life affirming positive message as opposed to the usual disrespect, murder, mayhem so promulgated in the mainstream media. >> that's one of the reasons we have you back. our theme is learning to forgive. we will talk more about that. we are here because of all you have done in the area particularly with your daughter. that is so

moving. one of the questions before we get to that in the next segment is elizabeth asked me on my retirement, what was the compass or my anchor in life that guided me and i mentioned something we talked about almost two years ago. the lord is my light and my salvation. whom shall i fear? psalm 27. i would have add blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled. i have a hunger for learning and growing, wisdom, knowledge. what are some of your anchors? >> it's divine providence that you mention the 27th psalm. the 27th and 91st are psalms i do every day before i go to bed at night. i would say my parents, grandparents. part of the problem with the young centers

due to the crack cocaine epidemic which was so well documented by late great gary web, it removed a lot of the men out of the equation. >> you are talking about the '80s right? >> exactly. the saying it sound trite but it is true, to be a man, you have to see a man. unfortunately a lot of our young black men don't have the positive black male role models. i had my father, my grandfathers, uncles. my friends had surrogate uncles if you will to give me the right instruction, to make me accountable for actions, to be respectful to my elders. it amazes me when i see kids call their parents by the first name. oh that was the death penalty. if you called an adult mary or elizabeth instead of mrs. butler, oh man. >> i was blessed too. >> you know about that. not only that. i would say my

mother would give out discipline coupons in the neighborhood. you know, particularly in oakland, it was a very nurturing environment. we had family and we had sure gatsby. i had a lot of what we used to call ma dears. >> that's great. we will talk more about that and what you have done with your daughter and the foundation and all of that. thank you for being with us. >> my pleasure. thank you for having me. >> join us in the next segment with donald lacey as we talk about learning to forgive, which is our major theme.

welcome back to mosaic. i am ron swisher. we are blessed, i say blessed because we have donald lacy with us and all the great gifts he brings. tell us more about your daughter. i saw the redemption project i believe with van jones on cnn last month. it was so moving. tell us about what that was like. >> there is an ancient african proverb that says before children are born, they pick their parents. i really believe that my daughter chose me for that particular moment. she was an incredible young lady. i delivered her on the freeway

while driving. >> i didn't know that. >> yes. on her birth certificate it says place of birth, 580 freeway. attending physician, i put bd, baby's daddy. she was re muer a young man in the neighborhood was killed and said she wanted me to help her write a play about stopping violence. i was moved by her willingness to take the grief and pain she was feeling to do something positive. quite naturally when she was murdered, that became my overall motivation, to make something lasting come out of something so horrible. lovelife is the official motto of oakland. >> how long has that been there? >> voted in april 5, 2016, and signs went up in 2018. >> tell us her name again.

>> loeshe'. lo is coming from the word to love and eshe, the nigerian word life. so i put the two together. lovelife. she was so eager for life, she was born before we got mom to the hospital. she was a conflict mediator. >> even at 16. >> even at 16. i will never forget her teacher told me your daughter is amazing. there was a serious beef between some black kids and some latino kids. i have this picture of her standing in the middle and spirit. quite naturally, i feel everything that's happened including me forgiving that young man is due to her spirit and nature. >> i am grieved every time i

hear the story, every time i hear someone murdered, violence, viciousness, vengeance of people. what was it like to lose your daughter at that time? >> the night it happened october 20, 1997, my initial reaction was for revenge. we didn't have cell phones back then. we had pagers and i was getting texts. people were already informing me the night of that they had a good idea of the individuals involved. but the last person i talked to was my dear grandmother mother franken who lived to be a couple months shy of 102, church of god and chst, she told me what the devil meant for evil god would turn to good. i thought about what my daughter taught me when she was grieving. i put the word out i didn't want any vengeance. >> gangs did it. an individual but gangs. >> the young man who picked her

and her friend up who gave them a ride home was involved in illicit activity in the neighborhood. they grew up together and everybody knew everybody, including the young man who was the assailant. one of the reasons that made it easier to forgive him was a few months after she was killed, he confessed. he didn't know she was in the back seat of the vehicle. >> he was 16 himself. >> yes. he was 16 at the time. i always felt he had a conscious. but it took me 20 years to look him in the eye like i am looking at you and say the magic three words, i forgive you. >> van jones, how did he come to you about that? it's because of all the work you have done? >> it's really again divine providence because i started restorative justice process te yearprior to it happening. there was a different administration involved in the

program and this lady became part of it probably two years prior to it happening to the inside prison project. the reason it took so long, i didn't know van jones and cnn would be involved, i told her i wasn't going to meet him for the first time unless a camera came. the reason was i wanted to set an example of forgiveness. probably about a year before it happened, she said cnn and van jones has this thing called the redemption project if you are interested in doing your story when you go to visit christopher smith, the young man, the assailant. it took a while longer but it was worth it. again, part of the reason in particular in black and brown communities why there is so much violence is there is retaliation. people hold that grudge and want to strike back. >> i was so glad i saw it. troy belten called or texted me a

day or so and said check it out. donald lacy will be there. he has beenour guest. i was moved deeply with that, how you had to meet the man. chris was his name. >> christopher smith. >> he was in tears too as you cried about the loss and the terrible situation. >> yes. in fact, and i left it in the car, i usually have the picture of her that i take everywhere. they didn't show it in the shot. but before he came in, i was holding it up. when he walked in, that was the first thing he saw. he broke down. it was genuine. even prior to me meeting him, he wrote a letter to me expressing his remorse for what happened and how much he loved my daughter and he was talking about how he remembered her in elementary school and this and that. he is out now and i am

hoping he stays on the right path. >> amen to that. we will talk more in the next segment about that and the whole nature of forgiveness. >> yes, sir. >> that's always powerful. >> yes, sir. >> i hope you have been with us. we'll continue this in the next segment with donald lacy.

all the greats have talked about forgiveness from jesus to gandy, nelson m, maya angelo. they say forgiveness allows for future. but it's still not easy to do. i want to talk about what that's like to forgive. >> as i am listening to you

talk, i am reminding of how the seed was originally planted in me before my daughter was killed in 1995. i used to go to chip murray's church. >> yes. >> i will never forget this woman. i don't know her name. i can see her face. she had a testimony of her 14-year-old son who was murdered for his nikes. shot in the head three times. i will never forget this. i get emotional thinking about her. she stood up and said i go to the jail and have bible study with the young man. i remember i was crying. i waited until everybody went up to her and i was last. i said ma'am, i don't understand how you do this. she said, son, with god and faith, it supercedes any human

understanding. i remember i hugged her. i don't even know the woman's name or how to connect with her. who would have known two years later that i would suffer the same fate as she did? i was so impressed and amazed. i think that's where the seed was planted. i never forgot that woman. >> jesus of course, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing. i think they do know what they're doing. how do you forgive persons who know what they're doing? >> in his particular case, there were four people involved. there is one other assailant who i pray never gets out. >> true. >> some people are just beyond redemption. the fact that he had a conscious, because had he not confessed, he would have never did time. he was institutionalized. he went in at 16, was arrested at 15 the

first couple times. now he is a grown man almost 21 years later trying to navigate his way through the world. in his particular case, again, the fact that he demonstrated a conscious, it made it easier for me. you know this, this is a battle of spirits. >> that's right. >> so why you can forgive the person, you can't necessarily forgive the act. that's the way i approached it. i always thought of the quote of jesus on his cross, almost one of his last words was forgive them for they know not what they do. i had to pray a lot and use my training and understanding the way i was taught by my parents and my grandfather. the other thing, it was very liberating. i felt like i weighed five pounds when i walked out of the

san quentin prison. you don't realize, i have seen other parents like me who become bitter and hold on to the anger and grudge. >> many of us who saw that and know of your struggle will say i will never forgive. some say 20 something ars.e take one year. some take a week like in the church in south carolina, north carolina, i can't remember, where the fella killed all the people. they said we forgive them. all of us said how? >> i was one. it was a week after the act and they were with the kid in court. dylann roof was his named. >> right. >> every one of the family members of the victims, that actually encouraged me when i saw that. i went back and forth. even as much as three

months before the event, i started to back out. it's just one of those things you wrestle with. this was my first born, my only daughter. i could have had grandchildren. she would be 38 years old now. >> one of your mentors, august wilson, he said if you don't wrestle with your demons, the angels will never sing. the wrestling, it is to forgive. it illuminates things. >> i have never heard that, yes, wow, you have to wrestle. we are bound by this flesh and we are humans. quite naturally too part of the other pull was a lot of people -- not a lot -- but some people in the family were objectionable to me doing

this. her mother, for one. even after i think she came to grips with it but she still has her feelings towards him she has to reconcile. >> one thing about forgiveness, everybody has to do it on their own pace and level. you have people say you've got to forgive. have you been in their shoes? >> exactly. you are so on point. this thing cnn posted on facebook has gone viral, almost six and a half million views. i didn't read all the comments but several people who had their children murdered said i will never forgive that so and so and this and that. i just said i will pray for you. that's all i can do. >> that's one of the things nelson mandela talked about

when he came out of prison. the two roads are to health and forgiveness. those are hard sometimes. >> you are talking about my favorites. after 27 years and then he hired jailers. >> to be at the inauguration. 27 years and you do that. >> an incredible human being. >> we have one more segment. i don't want it to end. i know people listening don't want it to end. come back and be with us with donald lacy and learning to forgive and how important that is for our life.

learning to forgive is always a process. something i will ask donald in the last minutes, is there a way formally that helps in the learning? we are all in the process and have to learn to forgive in relationships, society, the community, the world. is there a set way? >> i really don't think there is other than what i would say. if you really want to free yourself. forget the person who did you wrong be it a friend or whatever, holding on to that,

you are not hurting them. if you want to improve yourself and raise your vibration level, become selfish about it. how can i make myself better? maybe that will help you look past. >> that's something maya angelo said. yo want em whyou don't forgive. >> that's exactly right. >> but it's still a hard process. >> it is, it is. you don't necessarily have to forget. but for your own self benefit and to improve your quality of life, people always ask how are you doing? i say every day i wake up is a good day. i start there. anything else that happens, i am embracing every experience. >> what was it you go to bed with or pray every day.

>> 27th and 92nd psalm. >> shadow of the all mighty god. >> that is a great one. >> yes, sir. a good friend of mine gave me that in a gold frame for my 35th birthday. it hangs on my wall. >> i preached on that years ago. i remember the title. the secret. the secret place. i know you have been an example to so many people throughout the city of oakland. not only the city of oakland but throughout our country for what you have done and the work you do. i pray for your career to continue to bloom, all that you bring to acting. we haven't heard much of the comedy but we know you are a superb comedian. >> thank you, sir. >> we know of all that you do with activism in this society. continue that work. >> god bless you. always a pleasure. congratulations. 73. i can't believe it. if i look half as good, god willing i get

there, i will be doing all right. >> thank you. i appreciate that. i hope you have learned a lot with us. i am ron swisher. i read recently that god has to forgive us or there would be no one in heaven. all of us need forgiveness at some point for mistakes we make, errors. we fall short, and we all need help. learn to forgive. god bless you all.

business owners across the bay area had big hopes for small cells saturday, it was not the cure-all does some owners were hopeful for >> they were buying gifts but they are very conscious of what they are spending. >> we have the rsp warning signs for kids. good morning it is sunday, november 27. i am devin fehely.. let's begin with the start to our brother .