"face the nation" is just ahead. please join us when our trumpet sounds again next "sunday morning." ♪ . i'm margaret brennan in washington. this week on "face the nation" -- the biden administration mounts an aggressive diplomatic offense at an international security conference. former president jimmy carter enters end-of-life hospice care. just ahead of its one-year anniversary the war in crane was the top item on the agenda at the munich security conference with u.s. diplomats publicly blasting the russians and vladimir putin. >> we have examined the evidence. we know the legal standards, and there is no doubt these are crimes against humanity.

>> privately secretary of state antony blinken had a, quote, candid and direct code for confrontational with his chinese counterpart about the spy balloon. we spoke with him after that. >> it's safe tou t interview and a conversation with senator bernie sanders and a closer look at the nation's mental health a alizat of pennsylvania senator john fetterman for depression. 'she nation." good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." we've got a lot of news to get to today, but last night we learned former president jimmy carter has decided to spend his remaining time with his family in plains, georgia, in home hospice care. the 98-year-old carter is the

oldest surviving president, and our bob schieffer will be along later in the broadcast with insights. but we want to turn now to that hour-long meeting between secretary of state blinken and his chinese counter part wang yi, the first face-to-face meeting since the u.s. shot down the chinese spy balloon two weeks ago. we spoke with the secretary last night from munich, just after that meetin >> m secrery, i y j counterpart, wang yi, who has publicly said the u.s. response to the spy balloon was absurd, hysterical, and an effort to divert attention away from domestic problems. was he that dismissive to you i. i m ver clear to him that china sending a surveillance balloon over the united states in violation of our sovereignty, in violation of international law, was unacceptable and must

never happen again. we also had an opportunity to talk about russia's war of aggression sense ukraine and concerns that we have, that china is considering providing lethal support to russia in its efforts in ukraine. and i was able to share with him, as president biden has shared with president xi, the serious consequences that would have for our relationship. finally, it was important for me to underscore that we believe having lines of communication, engaging in direct diplomacy, is very important. >> does that mean their defense minister will pick up the next phone call from secretary austin instead of refusing it? >> well, it's one of the things we talked about, the importance of having lines of communication, including military-to-military lines. it's vital to making sure that there aren't miscommunications, misunderstandings, especially if you've got a crisis or some other situation on your lands. >> a senior pentagon official said last week that president xi

jinping was xwats surprise by the surveillance balloon, and he doesn't trust his own military. did the left and right hand of the chinese government not know what was going on? >> it doesn't matter in the sense that china is responsible for this action. ultimately, as the leader of the country, president xi is responsible. >> there is open source reporting that chinese companies are providing surveillance equipment to the mercenary group, the wagner group, fighting in ukraine. does the u.s. consider this to be providing military support to russia? >> we've been concerned from day one about that possibility and to date, we have seen chinese companies and in china there's no discontinuingion between chinese companies and the state. the concern that we have now is based on information we have that they're considering providing lethal support and

we've made clear to them that that will cause a serious problem for us nand our relationship. >> lethal support, what would that intel? >> weapons. weapons. >> that's ammunition? >> primarily weapons. >> there's a whole gamut of things that fit in that category, everything from ammunition to the weapons themselves. iran is also accused of providing more weaponry to russia here. so they are -- >> that's right. we've seen iran provide -- >> they're building an alliance. >> there's a relationship between russia and iran. not only is iran providing equipment to russia but russia is providing military equipment to iran, including it looks like sophisticated fighter planes. >> from your conversation with your chinese counterpart, do i understand that usually when you say it's a direct conversation it's diplo speak for it didn't

go well and it was heated or did you make plans to visit beijing in the near future? >> it's diplo speak for saying it was very important to speak very clearly, very directly about the deep concerns we have, the concerns we have about this surveillance balloon and the entire program, the concerns we have about the possibility that china will provide lethal material support to russia in its war effort against ukraine. >> there was no apology? >> don't want to characterize what they said, although it's safe to say there was no apology. we have to make sure that the competition that we're engaged in does not veer into conflict into a new cold war. it's not in our interest. i won't speak to theirs, but it's not in ours. >> in terms of russia's war 97% of its military is already engaged is in fight in ukraine, according to the uk, but they have substantial air power they haven't tapped into yet. do you see evidence that russia

is preparing an arerial attack n ukraine. >> russia's losses have been horrific you're right, that 97% or so of their ground forces have been engaged in this war and the losses have been horrific public figures suggest 200,000 casualties, that is a combination of those killed and wounded. the destruction of their war machine itself, the tanks, the armored vehicles, the missile launchers, et cetera, has also been extensive. in terms of air power, they tried some of this early on. ukraine's air defenses were successful in shooting down a lot of russian aircraft so they backed off using aircraft. that doesn't mean they won't try to do that going forward. to date ukraine has had air defenses that have allowed it to pose such a threat to russian aircraft that they haven't really been flying. >> i want to ask you lastly about this designation of crimes against humanity that the president announced and she

cited horrific things like a 4-year-old girl being raped by russian soldiers, thousands of ukrainian children being taken from their families. to say this constitutes legally crimes against humidity. president biden has used the term genocide. is the state department working on a genocide determination? >> we will, as always, look at every legal possibility when it comes to going after the atrocities that russia is committing in ukraine. the determination that we made, crimes against humanity, that the vice president announced today, is, unfortunately, starkly clear and we've seen that almost from day one. this practice that as a parent is almost impossible to phantom of seizing ukrainian children, sending them to russia, to centers that are about 43 we found, a project undertaken by yale university with our support that has documented this, to 43

centers in russia and some in ukrainian territory that russia now holds. some of these places are closer to alaska than they are to ukraine. separating them from their families and then having them adopted by russians. this is in and of itself horrific it also speaks to the fact that president putin has been trying from day one to erase ukraine's identity, erase its future. that's what's going on and that, too, is a crime against humanity. >> some of what you described as consistent with the statutory basis for the genocide convention. i'm hearing what you're saying as youre potentially looking at that? >> we will look at every possible determination, but we're going to follow the facts and follow the law. these are very serious determinations and we will engage in them very seriously. >> secretary blinken, thank you for your time today. >> good to be with you. thanks, margaret. late last week senator

bernie sanders stopped by the "face the nation" studio to talk about his new book, "it's okay to be angry about capitalism". >> you talk about the alliance you formed with joe biden during the campaign to really shape the democratic platform and incorporate many of your ideas. you said he wasn't as bold as you had hoped but he would have been the most progressive president since fdr if he had acted on that aggressive. >> i think the american rescue plan was one of the significant pieces of legislation for the working class of this country in the history of america. build back better would have been transformational and addressed the crises that working class in this country faced, revolutionized child care, health care, dealt with av a whole lot. >> the votes weren't there?

>> we got zero republican support and two democrats decided not to support it. >> in terms how far you view the president, do you think he is progressive? >> i think he's a much more progressive president than he was a united states senator. >> some of the things you were able to get done and signed into law, president biden points to them as achievements, but you diminish them a little bit in this book. you point out medicare won't be permitted to negotiate lower drug prices until 2026, the cap of out-of-pocket drug costs for seniors doesn't kick in until 2025. $35 cap on insulin prices doesn't help those on medicare. are you saying he doesn't deliver? >> no. the real world we live in you need 60 votes often in the senate. the truth is over 60% of our people are living paycheck to paycheck. the question that i am asking is why in the richest country in the history of the world, why

aren't -- walth stetks for all? >> why do we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drug prices. we have seen achievements but given the scope of the problems where we should be going, nowhere near enough. >> we have one of the most innovative health care systems when it comes to pharmaceutical drugs. you are doing this. >> no. >> when someone hears you lay out the problems with our pharmaceutical industry as you do in this book, the life-saving vaccines from covid were created by the united states of america, the pharmaceutical companies with taxpayer health. >> of course the drug companies produce great drugs. one out of four in america cannot afford the drugs that the doctors prescribe. of course we want the drug companies to do the research and development and taxpayers in this country spent $45 billion a year through the nih to help with that research and development including moderna and the vaccine. >> you're talking about moderna.

pfizer didn't take that money. moderna you're sharply critical. you're calling in moderna's ceo to testify. you're critical of his plan to quadruple the cost of the covid vaccine. can you stop him from doing that? >> taxpayers and the nih co-authored and worked together to create the vaccine. taxpayers put billions of dollars into the development of the vaccine, guaranteed sales for the vaccine. >> as they did with many other companies too. >> all right. and then what happens after the government stockpile expires the guys say we're going to quadruple the price of the vaccine and by the way, in the last few years the ceo made $5 bllion and other guys made billions of dollars. is that really what should be happening? truth is pharmaceutical industry is enormously greedy charging us uncontrollably high prices. we have to deal with that. >> moderna says it's instituting

a patient insurance plan to give the covid shot free of cost. is that sufficient? >> amazing coincident that happened the same day as we announced we're inviting them to testify. >> you think your political heat made that difference? >> maybe it was a wild and crazy coincidence, i don't know. but we want to take a look at what that patient program is about. we're talking to them about that. it's a step in the right direction. >> step in the right direction. how do you lower the cost of prescription drugs in a way that doesn't hurt american innovation and how do you do it politically when republicans control the house? >> i think we have the basis for bipartisan work, to tell the pharmaceutical industry they have got to stop ripping off the american people. a number of ways you can do it. the inflation reduction act started by having medicare negotiate prices with the pharmaceutical industry. doesn't kick in for a few years.

i think we should expedite that. number two, of all people, my good friend donald trump, who i disagree with on everything, had the idea that maybe medicare should not pay prices higher than the average countries around the rest of the world are paying. that's a good idea and we want to pursue that as well. >> democrats have this narrow 51-seat majority in the senate. both of pennsylvania senators are out of office right now dealing with serious health issues. so their absence complicates any votes. do you have any idea when, for example, senator fetterman will be out of the hospital and well enough to return? >> we wish senator fetterman -- has gone through a hell of a year. stroke in the middle of a campaign and dealing with issues. i can't answer that. >> president biden talks about finishing the job and the potential for running for re-election in 2024. you said you won't run if he runs. do you believe president biden

will face any primary challenge from the left from the progressive wing? >> i can't speak for other people. there's a general consensus right now that president biden has done not everything we would like. he has done a good job if he runs, announce he will run, i will support him. >> the democrat message in recent years we're pretty bad but republicans are worse, vote for us. is there anyone inspirational in the democratic politics? >> great people working night and day to protect workin class people. >> who is the next bernie sanders? >> i'll let you discover that. i'm extremely proud that there are more really strong young progressives, often people of color, in the house than any time in my lifetime. great people. if you ask me what i'm most proud of, is that so many young people, we won the young vote overwhelmingly. young people say we don't want to tinker around the edges. we want transformational change.

if my campaign played a role in changing that i'm very proud of that. >> former ambassador nikki haley is running for president and said there should be a mandatory mental competency test for those over 75. you're 81. do you take offense? >> i don't understand what du -- no. i think that's absurd. >> absurd? >> yeah. you know, we are fighting racism, we're fighting sexism, fighting homophobia, we should be fighting ageism. trust people, look at people and say this person is competent, not competent. there are a lot of 40-year-olds who ain't particularly competent. older people. you know you look at the individual. you don't make a blanket statement. >> okay. when it exacomes to the current former president and their age range it doesn't concern you? >> look at what they do and believe in. what are they fighting for? what does donald trump stand for? do you believe in that? i don't. what does joe biden stand for and doing and accomplished?

look at him in that way, not on age. >> we're going to take a quick break and we'll have more with senator sanders in one minute. ft than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

we're back with more of our conversation with senator bernie sanders. i want to ask you about issues on foreign policy. cia director bill burns said that uptick in violence in israel and palestinian territories reminds me of the last intifada, that there could be an explosion of violence. israel is the most right wing government it has had in years. do you think that democracy is in peril in israel right now? >> i do. i am very worried about what netanyahu is doing and some of his outlies in government and what may happen to the palestinian people. the united states gives billions in aid to israel and we have to put strings attached to that. you cannot run a racist government, you cannot turn your back on two-state solution,

demean the palestinian people there. you can't do it and then come to america and ask for money. >> have you talked to the administration about it? >> they've been very careful in criticism of the netanyahu government. >> well, i am not careful about it. im embarrassed that in israel you have a government of that nature right now. >> and are you going to introduce something? >> we may well, yes. if a government is asking in a racist way and want billions of dollars from the taxpayers of the united states, sorry, that's unacceptable. you want our money, this is what you have to do to get it. >> the pro-israel lobby used to be bipartisan. but these days, it's got a super pac that has spent heavily in democratic primaries. >> agains progressives. >> doing everything they can to destroy the progressive movement in this country. do you think the politics around this issue are constraining the white house going into 2024? >> the way i look at a pac in terms of their political activities it's not even just

the pro-israel group. this is a corporate pac, sometimes getting money from republicans, sometimes supporting right wing republicans, so what really upset me very much you that in many of these primaries, we had great candidates, young people, often people of color, and you had aipac and others spending millions to defeat them. as you may know, i tried to get the democratic party to pass a resolution that in democratic primaries super pac money should not be allowed to be used. >> you are proposing a new cabinet level degree focus on the future of work and workers. you talk about taxing robots who might replace humans. isn't the labor department supposed to be doing that's things? >> theoretically. i don't think we're doing enough. this is a huge issue. there is a revolution taking place now with artificial intelligence and robotics, okay. millions of workers are going to lose their jobs. who is making those decisions? you hear it debated in congress?

i don't. if there is a technology that can do increased worker productivity who benefits from that? just the guy who owns the company or the worker? we can reduce the work week? is that a bad thing? it's a good thing. i don't want to see the people on top simply be the only beneficiaries of this revolution in technology. >> you agree with bill gates in taxing robots? >> that's one way to do it. >> he's a billionaire you like? >> he's -- i've talked to bill in a number of cases, yes. >> well, i'm interested in that concept and some of the other things you lay out here. >> you know, it's not just taxing the robots. it's the whole question of an economic transformation, working class people going to benefit from that or just the billionaire class? >> so i'm told we're running out of time. >> i'm just getting warmed up. i'm having fun. >> but i have to ask you, you're going on tour to promote this book "it's okay to be angry about capitalism." and you're here talking about it. i understand we're not the bad

guys you're describing in the book when it comes to media, but tickets for your tour apparently are selling for $95 on ticketmaster. aren't you benefitting grurz the system that you're trying to dismantle? >> first of all, those decisions are made by the publisher and book seller. i think there's one case where in one place in washington, politics and pro, indepedent book store charging some tickets. most i think are $40, $50, and you get a book as well. if you want to come, you have to pay $40 i'll throw in the book for free. we're doing number of free eents. i don't make a nickel. >> you're okay doing business with ticketmaster? >> not particularly, but i have nothing to do with that. if you wrote a book you would have to deal with them. >> senator sanders, thank you very much for coming in and answering our questions. >> i hope i wasn't too hard on you. >> no.

i asked all the questions i wanted, not necessarily what you wanted but what i wanted. thank you very ch. >> thank you. >> you heard him, senator bernie sanders just getting warmed up. our full conversation is available on our website as well as our youtube channel. we'll be right back. this portion of "face the nation" is brought to you by merrill, a bank of america company. what would you like the power to do? so no matter what the market's doing, he's ready. and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company. meet mixtiles! they stick and restick. choose from dozens of sizes, frames and styles. go to mixtiles.com, upload pictures, pick a fancy frame and voila! buy 10 and get 10 for free.

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