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♪ nothingng is everytything♪ ask yourur dermatolologist ababout skyrizizi. lelearn how ababbvie cocould help y you save. (upbeat music) i fefeel things s when peop tatalk about t their struruggle proboblems. i i have a a kid a when i see parerents or kikids strugglingng i feel a all those storories . i shshould not and is prprobably notot good to ta those ththings homeme with me. dedeeply care e about whatat th goining through.h. i ththink t hahas to be ththe most reweward part of what i do. . good morning and welcome to 'mosaic'. this is the day of

pentecost. for some it means the birthing of the church as well as the broadening of the church. the birthing where we might sing happy birthday but we also might be singing in christ, there is no east or west and we broaden our ministry on this day of pentecost. the last time you saw me was on easter and i had two dynamic guests at the time who told us a lot about easter. i was so inspired i asked him to come back. welcome back. you are so dynamic, both of you. we were on youtube for the first time. and youtube celebrated its 10th year anniversary last month and therefore they celebrated by having us on. >> i did not get any word we went viral yet. >> people knew a lot about easter because of what you

shared. hopefully they will feel the same after hearing about pentecost. before we do that , tell us about your background and your ministry. >> i am a native san franciscan. very proud to have been born and raised in the city and grew up in a haight-ashbury district. close to golden gate park. graduated from the graduate theological union in berkeley. i served as a chaplain for the palliative care department at kaiser. and i am also the senior pastor at elmhurst united methodist church in east oakland. >> i am the son of the intermountain west. i was born in salt lake city, grew up in western colorado, college in oregon and graduated from fresno pacific college . >> you are the president? >> i am back as the chair of the lord of trustees . it is such an important place in my life and what i learned there

i cannot define myself without that experience . i spent some time in los angeles and since 1989 i have been the pastor at lakeshore avenue baptist church on the corner of the street in oakland. >> 26 years. great . without giving you a memo, you are in red . >> the spirit moves. >> tell us about pentecost. if you were speaking to an audience, a congregation that knew nothing about pentecost, what would you say first? >> and the cost is a time the spirit is moving to empower the people. instead of focusing on jesus, jesus is turning the table around to say, now it is your turn. you take it and run with it the kids we are the hands and the feet and the body in flush of god.

>> i like that. >> i think exactly the same way. knowing this day was coming i called some folks in our congregation and asked what they thought about pentecost. i represent you. one folk said the same thing. pentecost is a kind of graduation. jesus says as i have been physically with you, now you, body of christ, you will be physically present and empowered by the spirit in the world. it is time for you to step up and grow up. >> i like both of those thoughts on holy spirit and pentecost . i am of the bias that a lot of people do not put the emphasis on pentecost . we do on advent , christmas, lent and easter, no emphasis on the pentecost and the spirit . what you think that is? >> i like to think and it is sometimes a very sad commentary for us because folk in our

humanist want to be followers not do her. it is easy to say i am a follower of jesus christ but jesus teachings and lessons seem to indicate more of us doing and partnering and participating. sometimes we want to be couch potatoes and watch someone else do the work. >> thank you. >> i think a couple things. when we speak of the holy spirit as holy ghost, i am not sure that is an enduring term, it is kind of confusing. the second for a lot of churches that are not emotional or pentecostal in their outlook, they say what is pentecost and what does that have to do with us? we can be empowered by the spirit without being pentecostal in our practice and i think we need to claim that , the spirit moves with us whether we are required congregation or a loud congregation. the spirit can

be present and active and moving. >> we will come back to that. thank you for the introduction to the spirit into pentecost. we are with carol and jim. please join us.

welcome back to 'mosaic'. we have been talking about pentecost in that is why we

are wearing red. it symbolizes the spirit coming on pentecost. in acts 2 you see a diversity of people responding to the spirit. we have talked about the spirit and the definition of the spirit, tell us what you think happened at pentecost? >> a good question is, wasn't primarily an auditory experience was it primarily a hearing experience? wasn't speaking in tongues or hearing in any way? i don't know if we can solve that. i know listening is always very important and pentecost is a challenge to listen and hear each other in new ways and trust that the spirit will be in that process of earnest listening . listening is one way we combine the nations and heal the planet. >> would you add to that ? >> i think it is definitely a process of discernment and deep feeling and feeling the movement and the presence of the holy spirit that had not been present before. especially with the absence of jesus. was more of a focal

point of reference for them. what is that feeling? when you have somebody who has such a dynamic personality that jesus had , the energy can be focused outwardly instead of inward. >> i was looking at some of the scriptures on pentecost on this day and not only do we have asked 2, we of genesis and the tower of babel, just the opposite happens. and you have an alternative passage in ezekiel, the dry bones. i'm not sure which you will focus on . i was looking ahead to see exactly what the scriptures are. what is your approach to some of the scriptures? >> i like to add john 19. jesus comes into the closed room with the disciples and they are locked behind doors in fear and debrief some in the spirit and says, go forgive. forgive as i have forgiven you. being practitioners of forgiveness is

one of the primary acts of the spirit filled community. >> and then go out, as i was looking at it, go out and be amongst all people. that god is not a god of exclusion. that is why the spirit shows up representing so many different tongues and so many different languages so it says i am here and available and abundantly open and accepting of all people. >> in our society right now we are going through a lot of racial conflict, not starting with ferguson but even further back. we have new york and we have baltimore, that is still on our heart and mind. do you see the spirit breaking down some of the visions and conflicts that are going on , how would the spirit work in that do you think? >> it is a complex situation, complex and challenging. i think if folk were more willing to see that the spirit is in each of us , and it is

universal, and there is no difference, but the spirit is calling us to be humane towards one another , so we can have a conversation about our differences, but our similarities, so we can have the hope of god in us and we can stop warring against one another, especially in our african-american communities. we need to see the light of god and the presence of the holy spirit moving in each and every one so we can stop doing harm to ourselves. >> the spirit is about truth and reconciliation and we have to start with the truth. the spirit convicts us and reminds us of some really harsh and awful realities . the racial disparities that continue to exist in our communities. disparities of opportunity and education. ultimately disparities of hope and the spirit starts first by convicting us of these and moves us forward to reconciliation. there is no

justice without some truth. we have to start with the truth. one of the things we say in the scripture that the spirit sometimes convicts and says, this is not right. this is not right is the first step in moving forward. >> excellent thoughts by both of you. i thought when you talk about truth and reconciliation i thought of the archbishop desmond tutu. and bringing people together and asking them to confess and then the forgiveness comes and reconciliation comes. >> if pentecost could result in a movement like that in our communities. goodness . >> you know what he shouted, i did not know this until i read it, he shouted among the people to have them raise their people and shout vsp. which

means, very special people. he says we are very special people because god loves us and we are made in the image of god and it is not something we earn, it is the gift of god. he wanted everyone to know that. not just his own people but all people, which is what you have been saying. >> on pentecost, vsp could be very spirited people. >> good. we will come back to this spirited conversation and thank you for being with us. please join us with carol and jim.

welcome back to 'mosaic'. this is pentecost and we have been talking about the power of the spirit breaking down barriers and uniting us and bringing us together. i was telling my colleagues , i encourage them to wear red on pentecost and they have at fairfield. i am pleased. what is the symbol of the red? >> the fire, the spirit, the thrust of the movement of the holy spirit that just like us up. the vibrancy and the celebratory color . in different cultures they wear red instead of wearing black. because it is a marking of celebration. >> it is the tongues of flame that to send on us. so carol

said it exactly correct. >> you mentioned earlier that sometimes communities feel that they are not pentecostal or charismatic they don't have the spirit. some people who are pentecostal and charismatic don't feel they have spirit without a lot of emotion. >> that continues and that has been a tension in the life of the church since that first pentecost. paul talks about it. how did the gift of tongues fit into our life together ? he struggles and says it is a gift but it should not be regarded as a market if you don't have it you are not part of the family. there should not be a sense of superiority. there are all kinds of gifts. it continues to be a struggle and our communities. if i don't feel great passion and not ready to shot, does that mean the spirit has left me out? i have to answer, in my experience, no. sometimes the spirit is a stale and small voice and we have to

on the perspective as well. >> absolutely. >> i think the spirit most of all in what you all seem to allude to is the fact that it brings a community that loves one another and is able to proclaim that word , and hear that word. >> yes. it invites us to go out , outside ensure that word. what does it look like? does not have to look like what you are sharing looks like. it does not have to look like jim shearing. it looks like in a powerful and peaceful way in-house spirit is inspiring as communal and individually. it is about the good news. >> i came across this quote from helen keller. she said the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen. and even cannot be heard, but has to be felt with the heart. it seems like pentecost, you can see it and hear it and feel it. >> since you mentioned helen

keller and for many viewers who do not know, i am visually impaired. as a result of that, folks often ask, how is it that you know somebody has entered? i feel the energy and i think that is where my the rest of ministry comes from. that internal feeling . i am always inviting for to go in and feel the power of the holy spirit moving and empower you and inviting you to activity. it may not be this magical, mystical thing. it may not be something , it may be that silent movement of the inward motion that you can feel that brings you such joy and warms your heart and it changes you in that instant. >> that is powerful. i imagine people who come to you for counseling will feel a great deal of that. do you think that

is because of the extra dimension you may seem to have? >> absolutely. because i don't see you, i feel you. and i have to listen very carefully for the nuances that are being spoken that i may not see in your body language. in order for me to understand what is being said. far too often we get trapped in the external. we are looking out to see where is this moving and where is god moving when god could be moving inside, but we are not listening because we are focused on our physical scene. and witnessing. >> i hear young people ask each other, do you feel me? that can mean a lot of things. it can also be a spiritual question. are we connected? i think it is important question for pentecost. do you feel me? >> that is great . >> i think it is also important to set an intention of peace inwardly because that can be felt outwardly. i think when

the young people are saying that, they are saying, do you feel me, coming authentically with peace and i think us senior community, if we set an intention of peace how that can be so pervasive in our communities. >> that takes us back to the baltimore, ferguson, new york, oakland questions. people that take to the streets, most of them say, do you feel me? >> and do you feel our pain and how are we addressing that? >> dr. king said that. the rise of the cry of the unheard. we know that does not justify it, but it explains some of the pain . >> absolutely. >> a lot of people say why are they writing? and we don't endorse that or embrace that, we heard along with that but we understand some of it. >> the answers to the pain

being expressed in the riots or rebellions, however you face them, the pain is in some ways policy and law, but it is also a spiritual answer. this a cry for spiritual reality to speak to the pain that some people are feeling. >> you eluded to the inequity in our society. >> with the pentecostal movement , i am not saying a pentecostal movement, but the pentecost of the movement is calling us to be at the table. that is why it was given to everybody , equally, for us to be at the table and hear one another. >> we will come back to our last segment. you have brought tremendous enlightenment to the spirit. thank you for being here. >> join us for the last segment on 'mosaic'. it is great to host these guests with us.

it has been a great joy to have this program on pentecost. i mentioned earlier we were on youtube and i am sure this will be on youtube thanks to kpix because this is a lot of information about pentecost. it is because reverend carol and reverend jim has been with us . in our final few minutes, what would you add? anything we can walk away with ? you have said so much .

>> i am thinking about may at lakeshore we have had this emphasis on caring for creation and on pentecost we will talk about the importance of fresh air. the spirit of fresh air and the challenge to all of us is, receive a breath of fresh air and be a breath of fresh air in your communities. to play without analogy and how important fresh air is on our planet right now. >> when i was in oakland, you are active in community organizing, some of that affect your ministry. >> yes. there is an organization in san francisco called california interfaith power and light that addresses ecological concerns , creation care concerns , pentecost, a breath of fresh air. >> i think grace church is a lot to do with that. >> they come out of grace church. >> recognizing that pentecost comes after 40 days after

easter and that is the celebration of resurrection. it is our gift that we are being given through pentecost to the spirit to be empowered, to be motivated and inspired. to become active and go out into the world and do some good. as we talked last time, in our community we are building our garden and it is growing. we are inspired simply by the spirit to feed people, to address the need where there is a food desert. i say, be empowered by the holy spirit. be not afraid. it takes each and every one of us to become actively involved to make a change and a change for the better. >> perfect love, casts out fear. express that greatly. >> the garden is putting oxygen back into the environment. >> and good food. >> we only have a few seconds

but christmas is a long time and advent and easter has a time. pentecost just as that one day. we should expand that . >> we have to do more to do what we can in the time we can and not let it just be about one day. but that we keep going back so we can refresh our memory. >> you talked about broadening and in the christian calendar ordinary time follows pentecost and some folks have gone to changing time from ordinary time to growing time. >> thank you both. elmhurst is on -- >> right off of plymouth. we are on the corner in the sunshine. >> lake shore. >> lake shore on bus line 26. >> thank you for being with us. please join them and their worship services and you're welcome to mine way out in fairfield in community. it is great to have you this morning.

on pentecost.

starting a new chapter can be the most thrilling thing in the world. there's an abundance of reasons to get started. how far we take an idea is a question of willpower. because progress... is a matter of character. from cbs news bay area . this is the morning edition. homeless advocates accuse san francisco of