national u university.y. suppororting the w whole y. ♪ welcome back to "face the nation." we're joined now by presidential candidate and former governor of arkansas, asa hutchinson. good to have you here in person. >> it is indeed good to be here. thanks margaret. >> i do want to pick up on something nikki haley continues to raise.

and this is this idea of a mental acuity test for anyone over 75. you're 72 years old. if you win the presidency, you'd be right in that range. what do you think of her concept, do you think that's appropriate? >> well, there's a mental acuity test every time you go to iowa and there's a town hall meeting with questions from the voters. they do a pretty good job of assessing those issues. you know, as a practical matter, you want a president to be in good health and in charge of, you know, the country in a good mental state. but the tests are not constitutional so it's really something that's a throw-away line that catches people's attention. but the voters, i have a lot of confidence in to make the right decisions. i'm in the race, but if i'm the nominee of the party and you've got joe biden there, i'll be the youngest person in the race. >> well, i want to ask you about a number of things in terms of who else is in this race. you have already called on donald trump to drop out.

you've been saying that for some time. now he's not taking your advice. and now we have these new charges on classified documents. do you think he should be pardoned for the good of the company, as ambassador haley suggested? >> no. first of all, that should not be any discussion during a presidential campaign. you don't put pardons out there to garner votes. that is premature. obviously, if there's a -- >> you think that's what she's doing? >> well, i think that anybody who promises pardons during a presidential campaign is not serving our system of justice well, and it's inappropriate. >> you are unique as a republican candidate because, while many of the republicans on the trail are using this phrase "weaponization of the justice system," you are avoiding that. and, in fact, you have put forward a plan to overhaul federal law enforcement agencies. "the washington post" editorial board came close to endorsing it a few days ago, saying the idea

should be taken seriously. explain this approach. >> well, our justice system is the envy of the world. it's what sets our democracy apart, that we're under the rule of law. and if you undermine that system of justice, then you're undermining our democracy. and it's a human system so there's going to be flaws in it that you've got to correct and adjust. and so mistakes are made. and i don't like the way the justice department has handled the hillary clinton case. i think there's been errors that they have made in their investigations. that was found in the durham report. but let's address this by reform. and that's why i put out the reform proposal to reduce the jurisdiction of the fbi, to make them more accountable, more focused in their missions and their national security responsibilities. so let's reform it, let's make it accountable. and that's the approach we should take. as a party, it's about the rule of law and supporting our system

of justice. >> well, traditionally for republicans, it was about law and order. but the top three republican frontrunners are all using this term weaponization. why is this resonating so much? >> well, because the public sees a discrepancy in how cases are handled. and, clearly, jim comey was wrong whenever he made the decision on hillary clinton that no prosecutor is going to take that case, and that wasn't his job to do to begin with. and so they see differences as to how cases are handled. but that is not a defense in a case that's been brought against donald trump. so the public is -- >> which is a serious indictment on federal charges. >> it's a serious indictment with enormous ramifications for our national security, and our equal treatment of individuals under the law. and every case is factually different.

so there's frustration that's there. let's solve those frustrations by not attacking our justice system, and buying into what donald trump is doing, which is every day appeasing russia and attacking our justice system. that's what i heard last night when i listened to the tape in erie, pennsylvania, at his rally. both are wrong. and it's putting his personal good above the public good. and that's what we should be talking about and not undermining that system of justice. >> you're referring there to a reference he made to tieing further aid to ukraine to fight russia to what happens with law enforcement and congressional republicans. >> when issimply appeasing russia. that's what he's talking about doing. and then simultaneously attacking our justice system in america. >> you used to run the drug enforcement agency. fentanyl is killing a lot of people in this country right now. it's also used for legitimate

medicinal purposes by physicians. should it be a schedule is i drug? how do you stop the fentanyl crisis? >> it won't make any difference what schedule it is in terms of our enforcement activities. but right now the precursor chemicals are coming from china. and they have legitimate medical purposes. and, so, we want good reporting and requirements on what's being shipped out of china. we'd like to see it stop, particularly that which is going to mexico. but the key is mexico, because that's where the precursor chemicals are going, the cartels have it, they're making the fentanyl at the labs there. and mexico can control both of those. we need greater support from mexico. we need to use our economic pressure against mexico so that they will cooperate with us to a greater extent in fighting fentanyl. >> so when you hear ambassador haley point the finger solely at

china, you're saying she's missing part of the problem here, and that is the mexican cartels? >> well, first of all, china is not cooperating with us, and we have a better chance of getting mexico's cooperation. so, the solution is better there. so, yes, let's focus on what we can address. it's also a challenge here in america. we need to use education, the risk, the danger of going on the street and buying a percocet pill that could be laced with fentanyl. we have to do that education. governor reynolds had a great conference there in iowa educating parents on this. so there's multiple responsibilities and approaches we have to do to go after the crisis we have with fentanyl. >> governor hutchinson, thank you for your time today. >> thank you. good to be with you.u. >> we'll be rightht back. llll o? oror worse. wewe'd try to o take it off f with soap.p. our popoor dry facaces. don't t regret, jujust rever. no7's s new futurere renw damagege reversal serum. with a wororld-first peptide tetechnology

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away at inflation but avoid a rockslide of job losses that could bury us in a recession. >> we've seen so far the beginnings of disinflation without any real costs in the labor market. and that's a really good thing. >> reporter: chairman powell's fed hiked interest rates again last week, bringing them to the highest rate in 22 years, despite the high cost of credit, some sectors are booming. for example, construction. average gains of roughly 15,000 jobs a month over the last year. residential construction is especially hot despite rising interest rates. there's just so little existing inventory for sale. inflation has eased. last month prices were up 3% year over year. that's the smallest 12-month jump in more than two years. it's still higher than the fed's 2% target. >> i'm not here to declare victory on the economy. we have more work to do. >> reporter: but there's been

significant progress considering america's unemployment rate 3.6% lingers at a historic low. while most people have paychecks, our new cbs news poll shows widespread pessimism about the economy. roughly two-thirds describe it as bad. most say the economy's struggling and uncertain. personally, 70% of working americans say those paychecks can't keep up with rising prices. most say, at best, financially they're staying in place. but more than one-third say they're falling behind. nearly half, 45%, think the biden administration's actions are increasing inflation. but nearly two in three believe congressional republicans have nothing to show in the fight to tame inflation. the message, millions of americans still feel hard times while the fed works to stick a soft landing with the economy. >> mark strassmann reporting in atlanta. we go now to the president of

the federal reserve bank of minneapolis, neel kashkari. welcome back, good morning to you, neel. >> good morning, margaret. >> americans aren't feeling great about the economy, but then we have good economic news this week on inflation, and you have economists at the fed saying they no longer see a recession on the horizon. who do you agree with here? do you agree with the assessment no recession ahead? >> i do right now that's our base case scenario. the economy continues to surprise how resilient it is, that's a really good thing, as your reporting just showed the unemployment is still very low at 3.6%. nonetheless, i'm not going to dismiss the hardship that americans are facing. high inflation for several years has really put a dent in people's pocketbooks. we're now starting to dig our way out of that. so we're making progress. but i'm also not surprised that people are still frustrated by how long it has taken to get here. >> so, the fed carried out the 11th rate hike since last year.

how many more rate hikes do we have ahead of us here? because chairman powell said repeatedly the full effects of the hikes are yet to be realized. when will the job be done? >> well, we're not sure yet. we need to get inflation all the way back down to 2%. and while that headline number that your reporter just shared, 3% is really positive news, that hadline number tends to move around a lot as oil and gas and food prices fluctuate. the core number is more around 4.1%. that's down from around 5.5% a year ago. so we're making good progress. but it's still double our 2% rate. we don't want to declare victory. we're making good progress and we're staying on it. if we need to hike -- raise rates further, we will do so. but we're going to let the data guide us and not prejudge the outcome. >> the outcome potentially in september when you meet again about those rate hikes. >> correct, september and beyond. we may or may not raise in

september, but we also will continue to watch all the data, the inflation data, the wage data, as well as the unemployment data to make those assessments. >> so, there are some unknowns on the horizon here. and i'm wondering how you're thinking about them. we have labor strike already hitting a major sector of the economy. you have the resption of student loan payments in october that moody's estimates could suck $70 billion a year from the economy. we have all this tension with china. how do you think about these potential shocks? >> well, we monitor the economy all the time for potential socks. the biggest shock, of course, was the russian invasion of ukraine a year and a half ago. some of those economic effects here at home have diminished, which is good news for us. though the war still persists. we're monitoring all those shocks. the one thing that has continued to surprise us is how resilient the american economy has been even when shocks have hit us. so, for example, when the

enhanced unemployment benefits from a couple years ago, when those expired, we thought that would have a profound impact on the labor market. it ended up not having a profound impact on the labor market. and so we will monitor the shocks, but so far the u.s. economy just continues to signal that it is very strong, that there's a lot of demand, workers are coming off the sidelines. and so right now we know shocks can hit us. but right now the base case scenario seems to be that we'll have a slowing economy, but that we would avoid a recession. and i hope that that's true. >> can you gauge how much fiscal spending has been a factor here? i know morgan stanley raised their growth projections based on some of the spending that's fueling construction, for example. >> yeah. i think on the infrastructure side with a lot of the investment in alternative energies and bringing manufacturing back, that will also have some effect on keeping prices in those sectors, those raw materials high. but i'm not -- overall, i think

the inflation outlook is quite positive that it should be slowly diminishing from here. but, again, we've just continued to be surprised by the dynamics of this re-opening economy. and so we can't prejudge it, we have to let the data actually guide us. >> so, what are you thinking at this point? can you actually pull off this soft landing of lowering inflation, slowing growth without, you know, causing job losses and a recession? >> well, i think that i would love to see it continued. in your reporting you shared a quote from chairman powell where he said there's been so far no cost to the labor market, which is absolutely right and absolutely terrific. i personally don't think that's realistic that we're going to end this inflation cycle with no cost to the labor market. it would not surprise me to see the unemployment rate tick up from 3.6 to 3.7, maybe even 4%. that, in my book, that would still be a soft landing. we definitely want to avoid a deep recession where you have hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs month after

month after month. the kind of painful recession that we have seen in the past. if we can achieve 2% inflation with only a modest softening in the labor market, i think that would be a resounding positive outcome for the country as a whole. we can get back to the kind of economy we had before the pandemic, which was very low unemployment, low inflation, modest but positive real wage gains for the american people. that is absolutely achievable, but we need to finish the job. >> you are president of the minneapolis fed. so, you have a lot of farm land in your district in that heartland part of the country. do you have any sense yet what economic impact there will be from this extreme weather? >> well, it's very challenging, obviously for the ag sector overall. we're blessed in our part of the country that we have a very diverse economy. so if parts of the ag sector are under pressure, usually other parts of the economy are doing better. but it's going to be a transition. i think year after year if we continue to see record-high

temperatures, it's going to drive changes to what farmers are planting, where they're planting. you may see, in our part of the country, it's quite cold in much of the year. that warming may mean that we have longer growing seasons here at the cost of growing seasons in further southern regions like california, for example. so, i think it's going to drive long-term changes. but some of those changes might be upon us more quickly than we appreciated. >> and we are trying to gauge that here, neel, in our reporting. thank you so much, neel kashkari, for joining us. we'll be right back. when weather turns extreme, cbs news and the weather channel bring you virtual weather technology so advanced, so real, you'll have time to get prepared.. feel the forecast. weather when it matters most on

we turn now to the ongoing heat wave, which has put much of the southeastern united states under dangerous heat alerts from florida to texas. san antonio has hit a record-high heat index this month. and its mayor ron nirenberg joins us. good morning to you, mr. mayor. what has been the impact of this high heat, the demand for electricity, what is it doing to your community? >> well, we continue to set records every week with respect

to electricity demand, our emergency calls for heat exhaustion, heat illness are up 50% since last year, which itself was a record breaker. so, it is a dangerous heat wave that we're experiencing with just an unrelenting day after day heat exposure. so we are certainly grateful for a president now that's treating this heat wave with the urgency that i think is necessary, especially given the fact that one of the challenges that we have as cities in texas are fighting our legislature and our state government for local control, we're trying to protect residents and workers, and they are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening. >> you're talking about president biden making it now through the department of labor a heat hazard alert so it will guarantee workers heat-related protections. but i wonder in san antonio, are you actually seeing employers deny outdoor workers water breaks? >> well, we had a case that

actually is in the courts now last year where a young man died from heat exposure. but the challenge for us is, again, we need to make sure that we're doing everything we can to ensure that employees are aware of their rights and that federal protections are known to the employers. and so we were contemplating an ordinance at the local level to mandate local water breaks, similar to what has been done in other cities. legislation has been passed that, labor code, as well as preventing us from utilizing our local authority in many other areas. but, again, what we're trying to do is make sure that there's a backstop to prevent the most vulnerable members, the workers in our community who deserve those basic things. >> you're talking about the fight you have with the state of

texas where there are rules limiting your ability locally to set regulations that would allow for water breaks. but it doesn't outlaw them, it just -- i guess the governor has justified it saying that there are federal guarantees already. why aren't those federal guarantees sufficient? >> well, what the announcement from president biden will do is make sure that employers and employees know their rights that there are protections in place. also to ramp up enforcement activities through osha. but the reality of the legislation i mentioned is the fact that hb-2127 which was passed by the legislature upends 70 plus years of local authorities that have been adopted through city constitution, city charters in cities all across the state, in areas that go beyond just labor code, property code, agricultural code, commercial code, local communities, local

governments are solving problems brought to us many times by our constituents, and legislation like that upends that process and prevents local residents from being able to address their concerns through the local governments that they elect. and i believe it's an affront to our democratic process, and that's why we're challenging it in court. >> all right. and so that will continue, that sounds like. i want to ask you as well about immigration. a federal judge in california just struck down last tuesday the biden administration's restrictions on migrants seeking asylum, arguing that it was the biden administration violating federal law. so if the justice department loses an expected appeal, what's the practical impact for a city like yours in this heat with the migrants that are crossing? >> sure. well, since january 2021, san antonio has seen, like many other big cities, a surge in

migrants. and in san antonio, it's over 400,000 migrants since 2021. while we don't have authority to reform the immigration policies in america, what we are doings treating people with compassion. and so we have worked with the biden administration, with the department of homeland security to be able to fund a migrant resource center where we help folks who are coming through our city on their way to their sponsor families or to the next destination as they wait for their asylum hearings. the process now, we have to make sure that folks are getting their hearings, but they also have an opportunity to work in the meantime. so, while we are in the midst of the further politicization and demagoguery that's happening in texas with respect to the immigration crisis, i do have to thank folks who are trying to take one step forward in the

absence of congressional action that we've been waiting for, for 30 years. our representative tony gongz has offered some legislation that would expand the work visa process. the reality is people are coming. while we don't have the authority to fix immigration at the local level, we do have an obligation to treat people with common humanity and dignity. >> well, mr. mayor, thank you for your time today. we're going to have to leave it there. but we'll be back with more "face the nation" in a moment. that didn't work. on golo, i spent a couple hundred bucks and got back down to my high school weight. you're not gonna believe this thing is possible but it is. i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash.

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that's it for us today. thank you for watching, until next week. for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪ ♪ ♪ -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪ ♪

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ibrance mamay cause lolow whitite blood cecell countss that m may lead to s serious infnfections. ibrarance may cacause severe ininflammationon of the lulu. both o of these can n lead to dedeath. tell your r doctor if f youe new w or worsenining chest p , cougugh, or trououble breatht. before t taking ibrarance, tell youour doctor if y you have fefever, chill, oror other sigigns of infefec, liver r or kidney y problems, are or plalan to become e pregnant,, oror are breasastfeeding.. for morere informatition about sidede effects talk t to your dococtor. be in yoyour moment.t. ask your d doctor abouout ibr. >> announcer: this is the "cbs overnight news." we begin once again with the historic heat wave that has really gripped much of the country throughout july. well, tonight some good news.