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good morning and welcome to "mosaic". i am rabbi eric weiss and your host this morning. throughout our country we are faced with a situation in which we think strongly about how it is we listen to one another and how we are heard by one another. we would like to invite you into a wonderful conversation with a rabbi who has written a wonderful book called, refugees in america. college in resilience and hope. >> it is a pleasure to be here. >> we have is a big issue in our country and whatever way we land on the different issues of the day , what is coming is the ways in which we talk to one another, the ways in which we hear one another. the ways in which we listen. you have written a fantastic book that have to do with understanding and hearing other people's stories and ways in which they

are heard and ways in which you have listened to them. let's jump in and ask you, what led you to this book? what is this book ? tell us the background of it? >> your assessment is exactly right. i worry a great deal that we don't converse anymore. we have lost that. art of conversation. we have become very divisive. the political rhetoric on both sides dominates our conversations. this is a conversation about human beings, ethical issue. for me and started many years ago in childhood, adolescence. but really in 2004 when i made my first visit to eastern chad and to refugee camps when they were coming over. in those camps, i would say is really when i started listening to refugee stories and i heard , i saw the best of humanity, and heard about the worst of humanity of what had happened to people and i made many subsequent trips. then many

years later, in looking at this world we are living in i said i wanted to do something, we often forget there are real people involved in that is what led to this book. >> you use this wonderful term, real people, and as you are talking it occurs to me that listening and hearing has more to do with just the words you hear, and it asked to do with the person in front of you and how you read them and listen to them and take in their entire being and i am wondering if you could talk about what that was like for you and what about that was stimulating to continue understanding and hearing stories, as opposed to reading an article about something . what is it about being with another real human being, about listening and hearing. >> i love being with people and technology is great. but there is nothing like being with another person because there is so much more than the words. in any of the work i have done in any work through the book, throughout the years i tried to be fully present.

for my book i taped all those interviews because i do not want to be preoccupied with writing down things. i cannot read my own handwriting anyway. being fully present to me and bearing witness to another person's life . i view it as a privilege. when people share their story with you. the most difficult times . when they've got some hope, when they got a break or someone was there for them. it is really going out of yourself, into their story and not framing it in one's words, but letting -- let it just pour out and really take it in. >> show we jump in? is there a little section or a story? >> all these 11 people are incredible but i will take one. a woman who lives in houston now. she is iraqi and in

this passage, what i have done here is a highlight their words. i'm just the conduit. she shares. her words, we all lived in fear and what he might do at any time . anyone who was descended who was killed. what hits about that line, one can read that line and go on. in this country, we can percent in democracies around the world, but in many parts of the world, dissenting equals being killed. we have a little bit of that in this country. it is an exception not the rule . but in iraq, it was the rule. she talks about , this is what moves me. her grandfather talked about the value of education and the value of stories. when i reached high school , my father and grandfather thought it was time i started reading books . i have three or four books in

english. in high school. the first i read was, gone with the wind. i read it in arabic because i was worried i might miss something. then i read, love in the time of cholera. a read that over four times. she says about marquez, he transforming from the reality of my daily life in the village. and she goes on to say , i wanted to learn everything. i wanted to educate myself about the western world . so i studied the arts and movies. and she says the following to me, she said, by doing all this reading and learning, my friends called me, the imaginary girl. because i was always telling them stories of other cultures and heroes and the stories to transforming. >> thank you for that story. we jumped into this wonderful conversation. please join us in just a moment right back here

on "mosaic".

good morning and welcome back to "mosaic". i am rabbi eric weiss . we are having a conversation with an author who wrote a book called refugees in america. stories of courage,

resilience and hope in their own words. in a moment we will ask you to read another story. but you were talking about an iraqi woman who is [ speaking in a non-english language ] . >> it is an ancient religion. they believe in the sun as a source of life and inspiration. they don't go to services on a weekly basis but they have their own way of praying and how they treat people. they are very into, they value human interaction and respect, dignity and all that. i think some of us remember to 2014 when they were trapped and being attacked by isis. we have labeled as a genocide. and we did bomb, they were being

encircled, we bombed at the bottom and many were able to escape. they continue to be persecuted in iraq. >> i think they are branch of [ speaking in a non-english language ] . >> the oldest person in my book is a holocaust survivor. each person, everyone, all people are from different countries, different times in different ages. and unbelievable story. the themes of resilience, courage, hope. this one part really gets to me. this is a woman that is fierce . she spent decades in schools talking about the holocaust. teaching people. she shares when she was living in a bunker for three months underground and she would sneak out. when she could. she was a young teenager. she shows the following. at that time i was eating from trash cans leftovers. there i was, a

teenager with no vitamins. my father that somebody somewhere, illegally had some apples for sale. he wanted them in the worst way to get an apple for me. he never came back. and all i know is that i lost my father because of an apple. every time i eat an apple, i remember him. he was a person who takes an experience like that, and she is an optimist about life and deeply aware of current events and involved in the current situation. but rather than feeling the sadness, which she does inside, she views her dad in a positive way and she loves apples. and her nickname is the apple lady. >> the story reminds me of something that i was think about as a read your book which is, in some cases, the person telling their story has told their story repeatedly. in some cases they are part of a group that goes to an education

setting and continues to tell personal stories as a matter of historical record, for a class studying something of historical significance. in some cases the very first time the person is telling their story and the very first time even the most intimate family member reads or hears their story is through your book. we will take a quick break but i want to ask you . to comment, what is the juxtaposition of stores that are repeatedly told, stories told for the very first time. >> most, three out of the 11 do speak often about their stories. that is not an accurate representation. most refugees are never speaking about it. they don't want their children to know about the heartache and the hurt. and many said to me, no one ever asked me about my story. no one sat down with me and asked. for those people, this was really cathartic that they shared it

and were willing to have it in a book another children are seeing it and it is having a great impact on them. to me, it only emphasizes how important that we ask each other about our stories . >> in such an interesting comment. we can talk after the break about what is the effect of silence and what is the effect of not asking or knowing to ask? please join us in just a moment back here on "mosaic" .

good morning and welcome back to "mosaic". we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation with lee bycel about his book, 'refugees in america' . if you would like to have more information about 'refugees in america', go to , refugees in america.com.

welcome back. we were talking about all the different stories and i am so interested in one of the words of the subtitle which is hope . i know you have a little piece on the topic that is from one of the folks in the book and i wonder if you would take a moment to read what he said. >> hope is such an important thing to have in life. and for all of refugees, there are moments or omens, months years, with a loose hope but when they get a window where they can have a hope. this woman suffered terrible brutality by a regime and comes here to the states. he gave the graduation speech at the university of san francisco in december 2016 and these words were part of his talk . >> it is not an easy road , but hope is the oxygen of my life.

i have hope in humanity. so simple but so true. that is to me the challenge. how do i find hope? what is the source of that for me ? why do we give up hope? these people have been so much. everyone else i have met , they still have hope in humanity, even though the experience the worst of it. >> this is such a big question every faith tradition tries to articulate at best it scanned in whatever form it does. hope. and there are theological structures, there are core narratives, core contemporary conversations about hope and how it is and how it functions. a lot of times i think that we think of hope we understand in our own lives and that is part of it , i am wondering for you, i wonder what you learned about hope from these folks? >> these people have taught me so much about life . one of the

things that is true i think of every refugee i have met or for the most part, they have great respect for our stories. you and me and the viewers. everyone has a story. their stories are dramatically different because they suffered tremendous hardship . but from them, i gained insights , about how to live life. about how to not take education for granted. or every day for granted. i find in judaism the reminder, my favorite pair which i say every night at bed is [ speaking in a global language ]the . i translated the following way. allow me to put my head on my pillow tonight in peace. at peace with who and what i did today. but the part of hope is, and allow me to wake up tomorrow renewed to life, to relationships again. that is a hopeful prayer. these people have really

taught me that one has to have strength, one has to have resilience, one have to have courage. and we all can shape a life that we want . one thing they all share in common, they all talk about the have been lucky. but i add they knew what to do with that. they do not squander it. they got a break and they walked right into it and went with it. >> you remind me that in every faith tradition you would say part -- if i could use the word business , that theology and faith traditions are in, hast to do with the cultivation of hope. we are in the business of hope. maybe that is part of the rationale for faith traditions to be involved with issues of refugees, issues of cultivating hope . issues of catching people they take a leap of

faith. issues of moving people along the way of teaching them the language and teaching them a system and helping to understand a culture because it is a way of cultivating hope. i just wonder if that resonates with you. about this topic. >> i think there is a deep connection. when we read stories like this or any number of stories and there are great writers, when we read oral histories or stories we learn about others lives. i think part of it is that we have empathy and compassion if were motivated to help people like refugees, in much better ways we are helping them now. but also it connects deep within side of us . what is the refugee experience at its heart , loss. loss of home, loss of country, loss of language, loss of everything. >> i want to ask you something because some viewers are probably wondering. hope is very precarious in many ways . i think there are some people who would say they actually don't get to choose the way

their lives go. i think some part of the way hope functions is you discover a place of hope that you did not know existed. i wonder how you think about the human struggle, where people come to a point of no hope. i don't have a choice. about whatever it is. >> there are many people suffering from that and have it and i get it. i think what refugees teach us is how when you have a little window that you can find something to be hopeful about. in judaism, for all human beings, there is always the possibility -- one quick , if i can. i have a dear friend with als. recently talked with him and we have a notion of the bucket list, these trips in that trip. he has reshaped it of how grateful he is in life for all the things that he did on the bucket list but he dropped about, and he shaped his bucket list to be realistic

for what it means to have als and be confined to a wheelchair. i think part of it is being a realistic , being realistic about hope . i cannot hope to go play professional baseball. but can i hope to be more appreciative of what i have in life ? what are we hopeful about? if it is realistic, god willing with the right support, we can find the engines of support. these kinds of stories we read , they can inspire us. stories saved her life and it took her out of her little village and all the horrors, thinking about the story said, there is hope out there somewhere. >> thank you for getting to the complexity of it. i think one of the ideas we don't talk about is the way hope converts itself to other forms of hope along the way the human experience . we will take another quick break and come back to "mosaic" in just a moment .

good morning and welcome back to mazzeo. we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation with lee bycel about his book , 'refugees in america' . welcome back. i wanted to ask you a couple of logistic questions because

people might be thinking i have an idea for a story or i would like to do this kind of treatment with people i know. can you talk about, how did you find a publisher? and what was that process? >> it is a long journey and have a lot of patience, you have to have a lot of patience to do a book . this kind of book is much harder than i thought because as i am only reflecting their stories, i had to work carefully with the ones that root their stories to make sure they were happy because i am not writing a book of fiction. i'm not just writing an academic, it is people's lives to our at stake . then, i had help to get an agent in new york and the agent shops the book and rutgers university expressed interest . from the time it is published, it is a year. as a why would it take so long. you have to have a lot of patience and have

good brakes. i was lucky to get an agent and a good publishing house. >> in the context of the book, is this in the category of history or oral history? >> category of human rights, may be oral history. but nonfiction. a variety of categories dealing with human rights. >> i wanted to ask you two quick questions . we are almost at the end of our time together. rewinding a little bit, we talked a little bit about the people who tell their story regularly and the people who have told their story for the first time and i wonder if you could comment a little bit on what that break from silence is like and maybe even consequence in a good way , outcome impact of the first time of telling a story and in such a public documented,

forever manner? >> i would say cathartic for the person telling me the story. is a got more and more into it and we spent hours upon hours together , i think the more they felt empowered that someone was listening and cared about their story. for their families learning about it for the first time , that mom or dad went through this, i think some family say why didn't you tell me earlier ? some have a better lens , two women in particular, of the mothers story and all she experienced and what she provided for the children. and impact is only unfolding. the book just came out and we will learn a lot about them. >> what do you hope people will get from the book itself? >> my hope is the following, that people will listen to the stories as a starting point of reframing a conversation about comprehensive immigration reform. you have to start by the human story and connecting it to you. for me, it is the

following. we advanced medically, scientifically, technology, et cetera et cetera. heavily advanced humanly from the first brother killing the first brother, came killing abel? what gives me hope, at times i say we have an advanced but when i sit and listen to other human beings who show this earth, i gain hope in the human story and the resilience and the courage that people have. >> lee bycel, thank you for your conversation about the book 'refugees in america'. we would like you to read this book and more importantly, take the time to listen, here and tell you stories. thank you for being with us here on "mosaic" .

from cbs news bay area, this is the morning edition . >> hurricane hillary is moving up the west coast. in the n