welcome back to "face the nation." we continue our conversation now with arizona senator mark kelly. senator, the governor of your state said friday the state is overwhelmed. she was talking about migrants. we are on pace for a record number of border crossings. the vice president told me recently that administration's policies are making progress. do you buy that? does the inforadministration ne

change their approach here? >> here's the thing. the border in my state and others has been in a crisis for dz -- it's generations, decades now. we've spent billions on border security, and it, you know, it's still a problem. i'm on the phone with mayors and sheriffs and the border patrol agents frequently. i spoke to secretary mayorkas about this three times last wek. they're making changes. border security is national security. i'm really concerned about next week with the government shutting down. if there's a government shutdown, border patrol agents will not get paid. this is going to -- i mean if we think it's bad today, just think about what that looks like. >> well, what is the real impact world? tony gonzales from texas, border patrol agents he claims are being prevented from doing their jobs in the first place right now and wouldn't make that much of a difference.

why do you think it would? >> border patrol agents are on the front line of this crisis. so are sheriffs. he mentioned sheriffs. we've got thousands of border patrol agents on the border enforcing our laws and also processing, you know, asylum seekers. if they stay home, this crisis will be compounded by an order of magnitude. you know, it's unconshenble to think that republicans in the house are going to allow the government to shut down under the circumstances we're under today. i mean there's always been bipartisan support for stop-gap spending bills. having a government shutdown, i mean it takes off, you know, the growth of our economy is affected. it's going to affect our air traffic control system. if you're going to travel over the holidays and there's a government shutdown, that's going to impact you. kids don't get meals when there's government shutdown. the military doesn't get paid. so these things, these things are connected.

we've got a crisis at the border and what the speaker is allowing to happen in the house of representatives could make this worse. >> senator kelly, thank you very much for joining us today. we turn to robert o'brien who served as national security adviser under former president trump and joins us from park city, utah. ambassador, it's good to have you here with us. >> nice to be with you, margaret, thank you. i want to ask you about a number of national security matters but start on this idea of a potential government shutdown. national security wise, what do you think the message is to the world when basic matters of governance seem politically insurmountable and the government shuts down? >> well, what we used to say in president trump's administration economic security is national security, and we've got too big of a debt and we have to get the debt under control. i think speaker mccarthy has

done great job and negotiated a good deal and it would be great if if the republicans got behind speaker mccarthy. i understand why there's concern over the size of the debt and the frustration of some of the gop members. it's understandable. >> republicans have objected to even passing defense spending at this point. aren't we in a sort of dangerous moment? >> well, i came out in favor of passesing an nda and others did. i think we need to get that defense bill passed immediately. >> you were the hostage envoy under president trump before you became his national security adviser, and you did help bring three citizens home from iran. this week we saw a number of americans return in a very happy reunion. siamak namazi, emad sharghi morad tahbaz. why wasn't the last administration able to get them

out? why is it hard to bring home americans from iran? >> we had the unprecedented success in the trump administration. we brought home over 85 hostages from countries all over the world, north korea, iran, russia, and -- but we had a ground rule we wouldn't pay ransom. look, i was so pleased to see siamak namazi and morad tahbaz and others come home. we weren't going to pay $6 billion or a billion plus per hostage because that creates a market for hostages. it makes your blue passport worth a billion dollars. i'm concerned that americans traveling abroad will be targeted by countries like russia and china and iran but also terrorist organizations who know that they can get a big ransom if we pay these sorts of fees and we just weren't prepared to do it. we had unprecedented success bringing americans home from all over the world. the other issue, margaret, what is iran going to do with that money. we saw this with the jcpoa. they took that money and spent

it on terrorism and ballistic missiles and nuclear programs. i'm afraid they will build for drones and kill ukrainians with the money we gave them. i'm very concerned about the look of the deal internationally. >> as you know the current administration would argue that those funds are being meld a restricted account in qatar like they were held in a restricted account in south korea under the trump administration where iran did have access though difficulty getting to the money. why is that not a sufficient level prove text? >> president came last week and said he would use the money any way he pleases. he will use it however he wants. we have to understand, margaret, money is fungible. so the money that they're spending now on children's hospitals and on food, they'll use that for the military and for terrorism and take this money and replace it with the other programs. so money is fungible. this money is going to the iran regime. it's a terrorist regime, largest

stae sponsor of terrorism and will kill a lot of people. >> should travel be banned to iran? >> i believe. absolutely. the problem is this happened after the jcpoa when we paid hundreds of millions for hostages. price went up from obama to biden. as soon as they let a couple go, they retooked the pool of hostages and took a few more dual citizens visiting family in iran and took them. we have to start thinking about americans going to china and russia where they're taking hostages and using this against us. >> i want to ask you about national security as it relates to the u.s. election as well. you have been very clear that joe biden won the 2020 election. you helped the transition of power between administrations. cnn reported you considered resigning after january 6th. is that report law. >> >> that's an inaccurate

report. i never considered resigning. my feeling as national security advisors you took the job for the good days and bad days. >> that was a pretty bad day. >> that was a bad day, but, you know, we had the abraham cords, nato to spend money defending themselves which is helping ukraine, so president trump had a successful foreign policy run. but there are bad days too and that was a bad day. i was going to stick around for the president and the american people. i have a lot of senators and congressman who reached out and say stay, we have foreign adversaries who want to take advantage of the chaos. mike pompeo and john ratcliffe and myself the national security team, chris miller at defense, we stuck around and sent a strong message to the chinese and strong message to the russians, that the american people are united. we remain fundamentally strong. we're not going to let them take advantage of any domestic political discord in the united states. i think that served the president well and served the american people well. >> well, given donald trump's

role in the events leading to that day, i wonder if you would serve in a second trump administration? >> look, i had great run as national security adviser and hostage envoy and served the country well, i think, but you always have to wait and see what president of the united states asks you to do and your family wants you to do. i grew up in a household with a dad who was a marine and mom big patriot, it's her birthday today, happy birthday, mom, the president asks you to serve and i have kids serving in the military, you salute and say yes. that's up to president trump if he wins, which i -- right now according to the "washington post" he's up by 10 points. looks good for him. that's up to him and my family. >> you don't have any doubts? >> i think there's going to be great team. i think we need to return america looks weak. we're not weak. we are strong. but america looks weak right now. we have to return to a posture

of strength or we're going to have problems with china, russia, iran, in the future and i think anyone who believes in strength and asked to serve and has the experience to do so, should do so and defend america, absolutely. >> and i know you cannot talk about the details of the two investigations brought by the special counsel jack smith because you were subpoenaed. we have to leave that part of the conversation there. robert o'brien, thank you very much for joining us on "face the nation." we'll be r right back.k. i'i'm sam morrrrison. my b brother maxax recommmmended you.u. so my bestst friend sosophie s you'veve been a huhuge help. at ameriprprise financncia, more thahan 9 out ofof 10 ofof our clienents are lilikely to rerecommend usu. ouour neighborors, the gararc, love w working witith you. becaususe the advivice we e is persosonalized, hey,y, john reesese, jr. how'w's your fatather doing? to helelp reach yoyour gs with confifidence. my sisteter has toldld me so much h about you.u. ththat's why i it's morere than advivice worth h listening g to. it's a advice wortrth talking ababout. amereriprise fininancial. it's because of tikiktok

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we don't know any first responders... ...who only give 90%. or f farmers, ththe works who o build our r towns, roads, infnfrastructurure. theyey don't stop at t half . and good l luck findining a small bubusiness ownwner whwho's hahappy withth an 80% efeffort. [f-150 e engine roararing] that''s why y they use ford truckcks. ford f-sereries, 100%% asassembled inin america.. because we're all in on america. ukrainian president zelenskyy and his wife olena visited washington last week to press the case for more u.s. assistance in ukraine's fight against the russian invasion. we spoke with the first lady during their visit with the aid of an ukrainian interpreter. we asked her about what life is like for ukrainian children.

>> unfortunately, only one third of ukrainian children can attend school because our schools have to be safe, be located in safe areas, and we need schools with bomb sheltersp and my foundation continues fundraising resources to ensure that we have comfortable bomb shelters in the ukrainian schools. the rest of ukrainian children, two-thirds, go to school online because they live in the front line areas. many children left ukrainian, they live abroad. when children are leaving ukraine, sometimes they could only take their documents with them and left everything behind. that is why those children and teachers require laptops, require ipads to continue

education. we have a lot of support including from our american partners. >> you spoke at the united nations and you said to a gathering of leaders there, the horrific violence being conducted by the russian military including against children, a 4-year-old child. what was it like in that room when you shared that? >> translator: we say that there are sexual crimes committed by russian occupiers and this is a war crime. leadership of the russian army allows russian soldiers to do this. this is something they commit consciously. they try to threaten population in ukraine to demonstrate ner charge. when we address people in countries and share the numbers with them, you see pain in the

eyes of those people. you feel horror. this is not enough. we have to i nunite our efforts ensure those who committed those crimes face justice. sometimes people are concerned this is a taboo in many cases to say and acknowledge that you've been a victim of sexual crime. you need to be truly courageous to let others know that you've become a victim yourself. and people will only start talking about it when they will see that those who committed those crimes have been taken to justice. we know from witnesses, from people who saw those crimes being committed, from neighbors, that in some villages all women

were raped, but not all those crimes have been documented. because they are people who do not want to officially provide evidence about those crimes. >> that's a powerful statement. you need to be courageous to admit you've been a victim. your husband president zelenskyy said genocide is under way in ukraine. he said russians had elected their own hitler. these are powerful statements and i wonder, given the stakes of what you're talking about, how you think about in a capital like this debate over whether to help continue ukraine or not? >> translator: well clearly it is a natural reaction of any

individual who lives in a country which became a victim of genocide, you become deeply concerned that some people cannot understand what's going on, but we hope that all americans understand what's going on and we do not believe that this assistance that we now receive from americans will stop. of course there are political debates and there are discussions, different opinion, some agree, disagree, this is a democracy. but nevertheless, truth has to win because it is clear that truth is on ukraine's side. >> part of genocide is destroying a culture, and you've been working to get ukrainian books out publicly, metropolitan

museum of art getting things translated. is that your way of fighting back? >> translator: that's one of the ways for us to demonstrate who we really are. culture is also the area of the battlefield. we that the occupiers want to destroy our culture. we see hundreds of libraries which have been burned by the occupiers. thousands of museums and cultural institutions have been destroyed. by destroying our way of identity is a tool to destroy our nation. that is why we have to inform about our culture and important sector of our work. >> the president also said ukraine knows the names of tens of thousands of children and has evidence hundreds of thousands of other kids have been kidnapped by russia. do those children get to know their culture? what happens to them when russia

takes them? and how do you get them back? >> translator: we know about 19,500 children who were officially deported. these are children who are in the occupied territory and we know cases have been documented, they have been taken to russia. we manage to return back approximately 680 children. we have the least of children who are being looked for by their parents. there were a lot of children who started in orphanages and boarding schools and those boarding schools were taken to russia as an institution. this is a true problem because these are kids. sometimes they do not fully

understand what's going on. it is easy to manipulate them, manipulate their emotions. almost all children who we manage to enter into ukraine told us in russia they were told that no one cares about them in ukraine, that no one is looking for them. they have been preparing them for adoption under the russian federation. so they try to make them leave their roots, so to say, made them forget they're ukrainians. of course children who almost reached adulthood, they have great understanding of what's going on, but small children, can be much more susceptible to the russian disinformation. and that is why when we spoke at

the united nations, we proposed to develop a new system of joint efforts that would make russia return ukrainian children to their country. we are responsible for these children. we cannot play with those children's destinies. it's not human. >> there's a warrant out for vladimir putin's arrest because of this program. >> translator: well, this was a very powerful political statement, and we very much hope that one day the statement will be fully implemented. >> i do want to ask you, you were a comedy writer before the war. >> former. >> former. >> and now you have this extraordinarily life and circumstance and you've sacrificed a lot with your family.

do you get to spend time with your children and husband together as a family? >> translator: no, i have no complaints because when you see what's happening to people close to him, the problems of our family, cannot be compared to those things which have currently faced by other ukrainian families. children dying. children being killed. the president lives at work. sometimes we see each other once a week. sometimes we see each other several times a week. but my children next to me, and i'm confident that we will overcome because we know what is the goal, what is the final goal. we have to see our victory.

we have to see happy faces around us. >> when people in america think of ukraine they think of president zelenskyy and your family. how would you feel about him running again in 2024 if elections are held? >> translator: well, you know, this is a very difficult question for me. you know, even when he ran for the first time i didn't fully endorse it. if he runs again, if he runs for the second time if he decides it is necessary, well we have some experience. we've been there. it is not as scary as it was in the first time. i don't know whether he has made this decision or not. it will depend on the situation in our country and the situation and the possibility of organizing free and fair

elections. it will also depend on whether our society would need him as a president if he will feel that ukrainian society will no longer wish him to be the president he will probably not run. i will support him, whatever decision he takes. >> whatever decision. madam first lady, thank you. madam zelenska for your time. >> thank you. thank you for your time. >> you can watch our extended conversation on facethenenation.com.m. we'l'll be back k in a momenent.

that's it for us today. thank you for watching. until next week. for "face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. minds in medic. this is a leading healthcare system with five nationally ranked hospitals, including two world-renowned academic medical centers. in boston, where biotech innovates daily and our doctors teach at harvard medical school and the physicians doing the world-changing research are the ones providing care. ♪♪ there's only one mass general brigham. (all) ♪ toooooo youuuuu! ! ♪

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♪ >> announcer: this is the "cbs overnight news." tonight, what's left of tropical storm ophelia is slowly creeping up the east coast, bringing drenching rain and pounding winds. flood warnings are posted from the carolinas to as far north as maine. in north carolina much of the town of bell haven was left devastated as water crashed into front yards. and along the jersey shore roads were submerged, stranding some