he's the computer scientist who is known as the godfather of ai.

so what does he know that we don't? >> i can't see a path that guarantees safety. we're entering a period of great uncertainty where we're dealing with things we've never dealt with before, and we can't afford to get it wrong with these things. >> can't afford the get it wrong why? >> well, because they might take over. the former chairman of the joint chiefs mark milley famously clashed with president trump. but for the general, a more immediate battle is for america to continue funding the war in ukraine. >> with all of the issues facing americans at home, why is this worth it? >> if ukraine loses and putin wins, i think you would be certainly increasing if not doubling your defense budget in the years ahead, and you will increase the probability of a great power war in the next 10 to 15 years. i think it will be a very dangerous situation if putin is allowed to win. show time, baby! >> rich paul's rise to superstar sports agent. >> it's draft day, baby. anything can happen. >> is one of the most interesting journeys we have ever followed.

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intelligence will save the world or end it, you have geoffrey hinton to thank. hinton has been called the godfather of ai, a british computer scientist whose controversial ideas helped make advanced artificial intelligence possible and so changed the world. hinton believes that ai will do enormous good, but tonight he has a warning. he says that ai systems may be more intelligent than we know, and there is a chance the machines could take over, which made us ask the question. >> does humanity know what it's doing? >> no. i think we're moving into a period when for the first time ever, we may have things more intelligent than us. >> you believe they can understand? >> yes. >> you believe they are intelligent? >> yes.

>> you believe these systems have experiences of their own and can make decisions based on those experiences? >> in the same sense as people do, yes. >> are they conscious? >> i think they probably don't have much self-awareness at present. so in that sense, i don't think they're conscious. >> will they have self-awareness. consciousness? >> oh, yes. i think they will in time. >> so human beings will be the second host intelligent beings on the planet? >> yeah. >> geoffrey hinton told us the artificial intelligence he set in motion was an accident born of a failure. in the 1970s at the university of edinburgh, he dreamed of simulating a neural network on a computer simply as a tool for what he was really studying, the human brain. but back then almost no one thought software could mimic the brain. his ph.d adviser told him to drop it before it ruined his

career. hinton says he failed to figure out the human mind, but the long pursuit led to an artificial version. >> it took much, much longer than i expected. it took like 50 years before it worked well. but in the end, it did work well. >> at what point did you realize that you were right about neural networks and most everyone else was wrong? >> i always thought i was right. >> in 2019, hinton and collaborators yann lecun and yoshua bengio won the turing award, the nobel prize of computing. to understand how their work on artificial networks helped machines learn to learn, let us take you to a game. look at that, oh my goodness! >> this is google's ai lab in london, which we first showed

you this past april. geoffrey hinton wasn't involved in this soccer project, but these robots are a great example of machine learning. the thing to understand is that the robots were not programmed to play soccer. they were told to score. they had to learn how on their own. >> oh, goal! in general, here's how ai does it. hinton and his collaborators created software in layers with each layer handling part of the problem. that's the so-called neural network. but this is the key. when, for example, the robot scores, a message is sent back down through all of the layers that says "that pathway was right." likewise, when an answer is wrong, that message goes down through the network. so correct connections get stronger. wrong connections get weaker, and by trial and error, the

machine teaches itself. you think these ai systems are better at learning than the human mind? >> i think they may be, yes. and at present, they're quite a lot smaller. so even the biggest chatbots only have about a trillion connections in them. the human brain has 100 trillion. and yet in the trillion connections in chatbot, it knows far more than you do in your 100 trillion connections, which means it has a much better way of get book is those connections. >> a much better way of getting knowledge that isn't fully understood. >> we have a good idea of what it's roughly doing. but as soon as it gets really complicated, we don't really know what's going on any more than we know what's going on in your brain. >> what do you mean we don't know exactly how it works? it was designed by people. >> no, it wasn't. what we did was we designed the learning algorithm.

that's a bit like designing the principle of evolution. but when this learning algorithm interacts with data, it produces complicated neural networks that are good at doing things, but we don't really understand exactly how they do those things. >> what are the implications of these systems autonomously writing their own computer code and executing their own computer code? >> that's a serious worry, right? so one of the ways in which these systems might escape control is by writing their own computer code to modify themselves. and that's something we need to seriously worry about. >> what do you say to someone who might argue if the systems become malevolent, just turn them off? >> they will be able to manipulate people, right. and these will be very good at convincing people because they'll have learned from all the novels that were ever written, all the books by machiavelli, all the political connivances, they'll know all that stuff.

they'll know how to do it. >> know-how of the humankind runs in geoffrey hinton's family. his ancestors include mathematician george boole who invented the basis of computing, and george everest, who surveyed india and got that mountain named after him. but as a boy, hinton himself could never climb the peak of expectations raised by a domineering father. >> every morning when i went to school, he'd actually say to me as i walked down the driveway, get in there pitching, and maybe when you're twice as old as me, you'll be half as good. >> dad was an authority on beetles. >> he knew a lot more about beetles than he did about people. >> did you feel that as a child? >> a bit, yes. when he died, we went to his study at the university, and the walls were lined with boxes of papers on different kinds of beetle.

and just near the door there was a slightly smaller box that simply said "not insects." and that's where he had all the things about the family. >> today at 75, hinton recently retired after what he calls ten happy years at google. now he's professor emeritus at the university of toronto, and he happened to mention he has more academic citations than his father. some of his research led to chatbots like google's bard, which we met last spring. >> confounding. absolutely confounding. we asked bard to write a story from six words. "for sale. baby shoes. never worn." holy cow. the shoes were a gift for my wife, but we never had a baby. bard created a deeply human tale of a man whose wife could not conceive and a stranger who accepted the shoes to heal the pain after her miscarriage.

>> i am rarely speechless. i don't know what to make of this. chatbots are said to be language models that just predict the next most likely word based on probability. >> you'll hear people saying things like they're just doing auto complete. they're just trying to complete the next words, and they're just using statistics. well, it's true they're just trying to predict the next word, but if you think about it, to predict the next word, you have to understand the sentences. so the idea they're just predicting the next word so they're not intelligent is crazy. you have to be really intelligent to predict the next word really accurately. >> to prove it, hinton showed us a test he devised for chatgpt4, the chat from a company called open ai. it was sort of reassuring to see a turing award winner mistype and blame the computer. >> oh, damn this thing!

we're going go back and start again. >> that's okay. hinton's test was a riddle about how painting. an answer would demand reasoning and planning. this is what he typed into chatgpt4. "the rooms in my house are painted white or blue or yellow, and yellow paint fades to white within a year. in two years' time, i'd like all the rooms to be white. what should i do?" the answer began in one second. gpt4 advised the rooms painted in blue need to be repainted. the rooms painted in yellow don't need to be repainted because they would fade to white before the deadline. and -- >> oh, i didn't even think of that. >> it warned if you paint the yellow rooms white, there is a risk the color might be off when the yellow fades. "besides," it advised, "you'd be

wasting resources, painting rooms that were going to fade to white any way." you believe that chatgpt4 understands? >> i believe it definitely understands, yes. >> and in five years' time? >> i think in five years' time, it may well be able to reason better than us. >> reasoning that he says is leading to ai's great risks and great benefits. >> so an obvious area where there is huge benefits is health care. ai is already comparable with radiologists at understanding what's going on in medical images. it's going to be very good at designing drugs. it already is designing drugs. so that's an area where it's almost entirely going to do good. i like that area. >> the risks are what? >> well, the risks are having a whole class of people who are unemployed and not valued much because what they used to do is now done by machines. >> other immediate risks he

worries about include fake news, unintended bias in employment and policing, and autonomous battlefield robots. what is a path forward that ensures safety? >> i don't know. i can't see a path that guarantees safety. we're entering a period of great uncertainty where we're dealing with things we've never dealt with before. and normally the first time you deal with something totally novel, you get it wrong. and we can't afford to get it wrong with these things. >> can't afford to get it wrong why? >> well, because they might take over. >> take over from humanity? >> yes. that's a possibility. >> why would they want to? >> i'm not saying it will happen. if we could stop them ever wanting to, that would be great. but it's not clear we can ever stop them ever wanting to. >> geoffrey hinton told us he has no regrets because of ai's potential for good, but he says now is the moment to run

experiments to understand ai, for governments to impose regulations, and for a world treaty to ban the use of military robots. he reminded us of robert oppenheimer, who after inventing the atomic bomb campaigned against the hydrogen bomb, a man who changed the world and found the world beyond his control. >> it may be we look back and see this as a kind of turning point, when humanity had to make the decision about whether to develop these things further and what 20 do to protect themselves if they did. i don't know. i think my main message is there is enormous uncertainty about what's going happen next. these things do understand. and because they understand, we need to think hard about what's going to happen next, and we just don't know.

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general mark milley completed a four-year term as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the nation's highest ranking military officer on september 30th. he told us he spent most of his time working to avoid a direct conflict with russia and china, while the country watched him have a very public falling out with former president trump, the man who picked him for the job.

general milley's time serving president joe biden had its own challenges, including america's calamitous withdrawal from afghanistan, as well as providing ukraine with billions of dollars worth of american military equipment. a few hours before we sat down with the general at the pentagon, he had his final phone call with the commander of ukraine's armed forces. >> the counteroffensive that the ukrainians are running is still ongoing. the progress as many, many people noted is slow, but it is steady, and they are making progress on a day-to-day basis. >> but expelling 200,000 russian soldiers? >> very difficult. >> very hard, very hard. >> no easy task. >> how long is this going to look like this? a year? five years? >> well, you can't put a time on it. but it will be a considerable length of time. and it's going to be long and hard and bloody. >> russia occupies 421,000 square miles of ukraine.

the front line extends about the distance from atlanta to washington, d.c. in congress this past week, republicans ended kevin mccarthy's speakership, and for now more aid to ukraine. according to the white house, of the $113 billion already committed, there is only enough left to last a few more months. with all of the issues facing americans at home, why is this worth it? >> if ukraine loses and putin wins, i think you would be certainly increasing if not doubling your defense budget in the years ahead, and you will increase the probability of a great power war in the next 10 to 15 years. i think it will be a very dangerous situation if putin is allowed to win. >> ukraine, russia is what drives this meeting today. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs is the commander in chief's principle military adviser but commands no troops in battle. >> i am obligated, regardless of consequences to give my advice to the president. but no president is obligated to follow that advice. >> this past august, general milley invited us aboard the uss constitution in boston harbor not far from where he grew up. >> we're the only military in the world that swears an oath

not to a king or queen, a tyrant a would-be tire atlanta or a dictator, we swear an oath to an idea, and it's embodied in that document the constitution, which sets up our form of government. >> in 2021, general milley had counseled president biden to keep 2,500 troops in and around kabul. instead, mr. biden ordered a complete withdrawal to end america's longest war after 20 years. the disaster that followed will be part of both of their legacies. >> i go through the entire withdrawal from afghanistan, chapter and verse all the time. that was a strategic failure for the united states. the enemy occupied the capital city of the country that you were supporting. to me that hurts. it hurts a big way. no matter what pain i feel or anyone else feels, nothing comes even close to the pain of those who were killed. >> to those who served in afghanistan for two decades and lost family members and friends and wonder was it worth it?

>> that's always the question, right? 2,461 killed in action by the enemy over 20 years. was it worth it? look, i can't answer that for other people. this is a tough business that we're in, this military business. it's unforgiving. the crucible of combat is unforgiving. people died, lose their arms, they lose their legs. it's an incredibly difficult life. but is it worth it? look around you. ask yourself the question. for me, i've answered it many times over, and that's why i stay in uniform and that's why i maintain my oath. >> his commitment to that oath would be both tested and questioned by donald trump. while their relationship began with kind words. >> mark milley, he is a great gentlemen, a great patriot, a great soldier. >> after the january 6th insurrection, the two men would not speak again. >> what do we want? >> justice! >> when do we want it? >> now! >> their public estrangement started in the spring of 2020 when protests for racial justice, some violent spread across the country, including to

washington, d.c. >> no peace! >> perhaps more than any other chairman in the role you have become ensnarled in politics and arguably threats to the constitution. what have you learned from that? >> well, i think it's important to keep your north star, which is the constitution. we the military are not only apolitical, yes nonpartisan. you can't pick sides. >> june 1, 2020. was that a turning point for you as chairman? >> i think it was, yeah. i realized that i stepped into a political minefield, and i shouldn't have. >> he's talking about the day when president trump threatened to invoke the insurrection act and deploy the u.s. army to put down the unrest on america's streets. on the evening of june 1st, after demonstrators near the white house were removed by force. >> don't shoot! >> chairman milley, dressed in battle fatigues joined president trump and members of his cabinet in a march across lafayette

square to st. john's church where mr. trump posed for photographs. ten days later, general milley apologized in a speech to graduates of the national defense university. >> my presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. as a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that i have learned from. >> it's rare for a chairman to apologize publicly. >> well, i grew up here in boston. i'm irish catholic, and my mother and father taught me that when you make a mistake, you admit, you go to confession, say ten hail marys and our father. everybody makes mistakes. the key is how you deal with the mistake. >> after you apologized, former president trump said you choked like a dog. >> yeah, i'm not going to comment on anything the former president has said or not said. >> general milley did tell us he was so disillusioned with the former president's actions he nearly resigned. instead, according to former defense secretary mark esper, he and the general made a pact to

protect the military from becoming politicized or misused. it's also been reported that you spent several days, several drafts of resignation letters. >> that's right. >> i was very struck by the one that was published in which you said to the president, "it is my deeply held belief that you are ruining the international order, causing significant damage to our country overseas that was fought so hard by the greatest generation in 1945. that generation has fought against fascism, has fought against nazism, has fought against extremism. it's now obvious to me that you don't understand that world order." you don't think donald trump understood what world war ii was fought over? >> i don't know what president -- former president trump understood about world war ii or anything else. i can tell you that from 1914 to 1945, 150 million people or thereabouts were slaughtered in

the conduct of great power war. in 1945, the united states took the initiative and drafted up a set of rules that govern the world to this day. those rules are under stress internationally. president putin is a direct frontal assault on those rules. china is trying to revise those rules to their own benefit. >> that's one thing to say that china is threatening that world order and russia is threatening that world order. to say that the commander in chief donald trump was ruining the international order and causing significant damage, what did you see that cause you'd to write that? >> i would say -- >> it's got to be more than walking into lafayette square in uniform. >> there was a wide variety of initiatives that were ongoing. one of them, of course, is withdrawing troops out of nato. those were initiatives that placed at risk, you know, i think america's role in the world. now that is the opposite of what my parents and 18 million others wore the uniform for world war ii to defeat. >> general milley doesn't just

revere the greatest generation, he was raised by it. his father was navy medic who served in the pacific campaign, including at the battle of iwo jima. his mother joined the naval reserve to work as a nurse. >> well, this was and still remains a very patriotic neighborhood. >> after the war, they settled in winchester, a small town north of boston. >> almost every single male and female parent that was here, they're all world war ii veterans of one kind or another. >> the whole block, really? >> 100%. interesting, no officers. these were all 100% enlisted, and they had their own opinions of officers too. >> including your parents, right? >> oh, yeah. >> during high school, he was recruited to play ice hockey at princeton university, and decided to join the reserve officers training corps, or rotc. after graduating he went on to become a paratrooper and serve in special forces. he did one combat tour in iraq and three in afghanistan.

>> raise your right hand. >> this past may, he returned to princeton to commission the graduating rotc class. >> congratulations to every one of you. >> and took a particular interest. >> all right, cadets. >> in a few of the young officers whose language skills are currently in high demand. >> i speak chinese, sir. >> chinese is really, really important to us. anybody else speak chinese? whoa! one, two, three, four, five. if you speak chinese, if you don't mind, i'd like to get your names, and we'll see where life takes you guys. >> we, the united states, need to take the challenge, the military challenge of china extraordinarily seriously. >> how concerned are you that military-to-military communications are not happening right now with china? >> yeah, i think we need to get that established. we had them for a period of time and then they dropped off. channels of communication are important in order to de-escalate in time of crisis. >> general milley says he held a total of five calls with his chinese military counterparts

during the trump and biden administrations. but it was his last two calls during the final months of the trump presidency that got the attention of the press, congress, and the former president himself. why did you think it was so important to call your chinese military counterpart in the aftermath of the january 6th attacks? >> that's an example of de-escalation. so there was clear indications that the chinese were very concerned about what they were observing here in the united states. >> did you see some movement of chinese military -- >> i won't go over anything classified. so i won't discuss exactly what we saw or didn't see or what we heard or didn't hear. i will just say that there was clear indications that the chinese were very concerned. >> president trump recently said that your dealings with china were so egregious that in times gone by, the punishment would have been death. >> that's right. he said that. >> but for the record, was there

anything inappropriate or treasonous about the calls you made to china? >> absolutely not, zero, none. not only that, they were authorized and coordinated. congress knows that. we've answered these questions several different times in writing. >> when you giving the chinese information about the thinking of the president of the united states? >> the specific conversation was i think in accordance with the intent of the secretary of defense, which was to make sure the chinese knew that we were not going to attack them. >> why did the chinese think that the u.s. under then president trump was going the attack them? >> because the chinese were concerned about what is commonly referred to in the english language like an october surprise, wag the dog sort of thing. they were wrong. they were not reading us right. look, the president was not going to attack china. and they needed to know that. >> china, russia, and the war in ukraine are now the problem of his successor, air force general charles q. brown, jr. there are e also areasas of con closer t to home. last year, the army missed its recruiting numbers by 15,000

soldiers, the worst shortfall in decades. confidence in the u.s. military is at its lowest in two decades. do you bear any personal responsibility for that? >> absolutely. i think as the leader of the military, the uniformed military, i think i am part of that for sure. i think the walk from the white house to the st. john's church, i think that helped create some of that. i think the withdrawal from afghanistan helped create some of that. but i would also say the united states military is still one of the most respected institutions in the united states by a long shot, by a huge margin. i think we've taken a slip back a little bit, and i think we need to improve on that. >> general mark milley on the future of warfare. >> does it make war more likely? >> it could. >> at 60minutesovertime.e.com. haveve heart faiailure withh unresosolved symptptoms? it mayay be time t to see the biggerer picturere.

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rich paul has become one of the premier agents in professional sports. he counts lebron james as a close friend and agent. client. the agency he founded, klutch sports group made deals worth almost $900 million this past summer for his nba clients alone. paul honed his deal-making instincts as a kid, navigating what he calls the hostile streets of his cleveland neighborhood. today at 42, he is rewriting the playbook for representing pro athletes. rich paul told us he was lucky. and when you hear his story, we think you'll understand why. >> so you used to come to games when you were younger? >> i went one time when i had to sit all the way up at the top. you really couldn't see the person. >> and now? >> now is now. >> you're sitting on tonight floor. >> we joined rich paul courtside at a cleveland cavaliers game last season.

he seemed to know everyone. >> what's up, dog? that's good! >> and it seemed everyone wanted to know him. >> thank you so much. >> no problem. >> bro. >> thank you, brother. appreciate it. >> last year paul got cleveland star darius garland a $200 million deal, the richest in franchise history. garland is one of nearly 200 athletes on paul's roster. who are some of the big names that we would all recognize? >> which sport you want? we just had jalen hurts and devonta smith playing the super bowl for the philadelphia eagles. and then you got the anthony davis and draymond green and obviously lebron. >> do you know the total value of the contracts you've negotiated? >> i would say close to $3 billion, i think? >> it's more than $4 billion. but it's hard to keep track when you're always on the go. >> show time, baby! >> before the nba draft in new york city, we watched him work the phones. >> you know, it's draft day.

anything can happen. >> work the room. >> hey, coach, how you doing? >> good seeing you. >> and work the angles to move clients like duke center dereck lively ii up the draft board. >> you ready? >> yes, sir. >> in college, lively was known for his defense. but paul had him work on his three-point shot, and before the draft, invited teams to see. lively shot up to the 12th pick, about ten spots higher than first projected. it might not look like it, but rich paul is a towering figure in the nba. >> i've always been the smallest guy in the room willing to take the biggest swing. >> some of his biggest swings have been for his biggest client, lebron james. paul negotiated his jumps from miami to cleveland to l.a., deals that netted james $400 million and set him up to win two of his four championships. he told us he works to give

players leverage. some people say that you're destroying the player loyalty to the teams and the fans. >> player loyalty to what? if i could be traded in the middle of the night to another team, what i should be is educating myself to where if this isn't going the way i thought it was supposed to go, i can switch up, right. we're not confined. >> you have options. >> i have options. what's the sense of having money with no options? >> that's apparently how superstar anthony davis felt in 2018. the new orleans center had a $127 million contract but was tired of losing. so he fired his agent and hired rich paul. paul flouted nba rules by publicly demanding a trade, earning the wrath of fans and a $50,000 fine for davis.

the drama landed paul on the cover of "sports illustrated," which called him the most polarizing figure in the nba. >> when it was someone that didn't look like me, it was genius. it was why you get a power agent. but when it's me, i'm destroying the league? i mean, those things are absurd. >> he got davis what he wanted, a championship ring and a deal now worth $270 million. >> there is a saying that goes if you ain't got know haters, you ain't poppin'. >> so you must be poppin'. >> i think i'm poppin' a little bit, you know. >> he was poppin' a lot at his annual all-star game party this past winter in salt lake city. >> what's up, dog? >> we dropped in and saw giants of the court mingling with rappers, team owners and titans of industry over cocktails and canapes. rich paul had a full plate of business options, one from the president of gatorade.

>> i want to be the first call. >> done! >> while we were chatting with him -- >> golden state warrior draymond green cut in. the four-time nba champion cycled through two other agents before signing up with rich paul, who landed him a $100 million contract over the summer. >> so then you end a young black man who has made more money than you ever imagined but you don't know how to live with it. you don't know what to do with it. >> and what does he do? >> most agents treat athletes as if the athlete works for them. but there is a multibillion business going on around most athletes that they don't understand, but they don't have a rich paul to teach them. that's what is special about it. >> paul's improbable journey, the subject of a memoir out this week started on the east side of cleveland in the early 1980s just as crack cocaine hit the streets. when he was about 4, he learned his mother minerva was hooked on

crack. his father, big rich, recognized his son's intelligence and kept him close, though they lived apart. he owned the neighborhood convenience store. so your dad's store is right in here? >> yeah. and this was my world. >> this now empty corner was a hotbed of activity, legal and illegal. >> there was a shootout right here on this corner. >> big rich taught his son to always think two steps ahead. he scraped together the money to send him to a catholic high school, away from the neighborhood. still, there was no avoiding the streets. >> you don't know what you're in. >> that's your norm? >> that's my norm. sardines out of the can, that was today's version of tuna tartare on the waldorf rooftop, you know. this was my education, though. this is my harvard, my michigans, my morehouse. and the same thing i learned on

my corner i take into the boardroom. because the one thing this teaches you that i don't think you can learn from those institutions is people, characters. and on these streets, it's no better way to learn character because they're coming with everything. >> his dad taught him another skill, a way to make money if all else fails, a pair of dice. paul and his best friend edward givens were regulars at an open-air casino in the park. >> 50 people crowded around this little area, and energy was high. it was an arena. >> and rich paul was a natural. >> and how much would you earn? >> i mean, a slow day was a thousand dollars. >> and a not slow day? >> you know, 4 or 5. >> $4,000 or $5,000? >> easy. >> when you were 14, 15, 16? >> oh, yeah. >> what did you learn from this experience? >> you gain a resilience here.

we won the majority of the time. but you also had to learn how to lose. >> he suffered his biggest loss when he was 19. his father died from cancer, and paul went all in on the streets, selling marijuana and crack cocaine. this is the very drug that your mother was hooked on. >> the absence of my dad allowed me to take that step, because i would have never done that had he been around. i had too much respect for him. it's not something that i would sit here and glorify. >> it almost sounds like you were a full-time hustler. >> oh, yeah. but jeff bezos is a hustler. think he's not? phil knight was the ultimate hustler. the difference is they could go with their plan and their business idea and get someone to believe in them. it didn't matter what idea i

had. there is no pathway to get there. >> he found one through a stroke of luck. at the akron-canton airport in 2001, paul was wearing a throwback jersey like this one that caught the eye of another traveler, high school hoops sensation lebron james. what did you see in him? >> it began with him, you know, wearing a throwback jersey that i loved. but as we got to talking about sports, we started evolving and even talking more and more just about life and about our upbringing, about our moms and our communities and stuff of that nature. it just kind of struck. it struck a chord. >> when james entered the nba, he hired rich paul as a right-hand man. paul went on to work for lebron's agent and watched, listened, and learned. i understand that you would go into meetings with the likes of warren buffett. >> being in those rooms is much

better to -- to listen than to talk. if you listen, you might actually learn something, and you start to kind of, you know, work your way on your own. >> after just four years, he struck out on his own and launched klutch sports group in 2012. lebron james went with him. when you first started this, you were underestimated. >> not only was i underestimated, i was also not wanted. i didn't look like the success in our industry, especially from a place of decision making. and i wanted to disrupt the industry. i wanted to be impactful, but i wanted to come from a place of purpose. >> in 2013, with his first negotiation as agent for phoenix suns guard eric bledsoe, he proved the naysayers wrong. he said the suns had offered $28 million. >> and then $48 million. >> and you turned it down? >> yeah. >> what was on the line? >> my career.

everyone was calling and saying he's crazy, he doesn't know what he is doing, he is inexperienced. >> it sounds like you are really comfortable rolling the dice. >> i was born a dice roller. >> his gamble paid off. after hanging tough for a year, klutch got bledsoe a $70 million deal, $42 million more than the suns' first offer. >> great room. >> today klutch has 70 employees with offices in los angeles, new york, and atlanta. >> and they both in the same draft class. >> paul teamed up with powerhouse agency uta to expand klutch's reach. >> i had to build a multi-one-hundred-million company to get people to believe in me. and they're still doubting. >> critics say he is only successful because of his relationship with you. >> i mean, it's disappointing to hear that. >> but you gave him an opportunity. >> yeah, and i don't give people

opportunities much. and he took well -- way beyond than what he even imagined. >> rich paul now has a new balance signature shoe, a first of for an agent. his partner is more famous than he is. he has been in a relationship with adele for 2 1/2 years. >> adele. >> she gave him a shout-out at the grammys. >> oh, god, rich said don't cry. if you win, don't cry. and here i am crying. >> a couple of weeks later at his all-star game party, paul's friends recognized his achievements. >> this is from us. >> this is from us. >> with a $140,000 watch. >> wow! wow! wow! >> do you have to pinch yourself sometimes? >> all the time. i had it worse than a lot of people, but i evolved, i matured, i transitioned. >> how does that feel? >> it feels great. it feels earned, you know. it wasn't given for sure.

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the last minute of "60 minutes" is sponsored by united healthcare, there for what matters. tonight's last minute isn't really tonight's last minute, because tonight's "60 minutes" isn't really 60 minutes. stick around for an extra half hour for lesley stahl's look at how 3d printing and a company called icon is revolutionizing how we build both here on earth and eventually beyond. >> what you're watching is the building, actually the printing of a four-bedroom home. on this construction site, there is no hammering or sawing, just a nozzle squirting out concrete. and by the end of the decade, an icon printer is supposed to fly to the moon to test print part of a landing pad.

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there was a time when futurists were predicting that the advent of 3d printing was going to change our lives, that each of our houses would have a 3d printer to make whatever items we need. what virtually no one predicted, though, was that there might soon be 3d printers that could construct almost the entire house. but that's just what a 6-year-old austin, texas company called icon is doing, 3d printing buildings. and if you believe icon's mission-driven young founder, 3d printing could revolutionize how we build, represent create

affordable housing, even allow us to, wait for it, colonize the moon. sound out of this world? take a look. what you're watching is the building, actually the printing of a four-bedroom home. on this construction site, there is no hammering or sawing, just a nozzle squirting out concrete, kind of like an oversized soft serve ice cream dispenser, laying down the walls of a house one layer at a time. it's the brainchild of a 41-year-old texan, who is rarely without his cowboy hat jason ballard. 3d printing a house? >> yes, ma'am. >> people are going hear that and say no. >> we're sitting inside one right now. >> this house was printed? >> yes, ma'am. >> oh, look at this! >> there you are. welcome. >> and so was this one. does a concrete home printed by a robot have to look cold and industrial? maybe not. i like the curved wall.

>> ballard gave us a peek at the first completed model home in which what will soon be the world's first large community of printed 3-d houses, 100 of them, part of a huge new development north of austin. they'll start in the high $400,000 range. how exactly does 3d printing a housework? well, it starts with this 1.5 ton sack of dry concrete powder, which gets mixed with water, sand, and additives and is then pumped to the robotic printer. >> you're looking at how we control the bead size. >> conner jenkins, icon's manager of construction here, explained that the printer completes one layer, called a bead, every 30 minutes. by which time it's hardened enough to be ready for the next bead. steel is added every tenth layer for strength. the amount of change your making is -- >> tiny. >> it takes about two weeks to

print the full 160-bead house. jenkins gave me the controls, an ipad. >> so look, lesley, that's a little skinny. will you press the plus 1 real quick? done. you just increased the bead size incrementally. >> i'd be worried if i were you. but it turns out the path is entirely preprogrammed. i couldn't mess it up if i tried. don't tell the people. >> i think that's the most gorgeous bead i've ever seen. i think this will the highest selling house. >> for now, as jason ballard showed us, icon is only 3d printing walls, with cutouts for plumbing and electricity. roofs, windows, and insulation are added the old-fashioned way, by construction workers. he calls it a paradigm shift. >> it really is like a wright brothers moment for airplanes. >> in how we construct our housing. why do we need a big shift like that? >> because right now it is too expensive. it falls over in a hurricane. it burns up in a fire. it gets eaten by termites.

the way you try to make it affordable is you trim quality on materials. you trim quality on labor. the result is these cookie-cutter developments. we are not succeeding. we have to get on top of that. it's an ecological disaster. and i would certainly say it is existentially urgent that we shelter ourselves without ruining the planet we have to live on. fire-resistant, flood resistant. >> ballard showed us the example of a 3d printed wall beside a conventionally built one. you say it's faster, more efficient. >> yes. >> why do you say that? >> what you've got, let's count the materials. siding, one. moisture barrier, two. sheathing, three. stud, four. drywall, five. and then float, tape and texture, you can count that as one or three. but you have got at least half a dozen novel steps that have to take place to deliver an american stick frame wall system. by comparison, we need a single material supply chain delivered by a robot.

>> let's talk about waste. >> yes, ma'am. >> over here. >> at the end of constructing a home with these materials, there are truckloads and truckloads of waste left over. these studs are going to have offcuts that go into a waste pile. same with siding and drywall. >> whereas with 3-d printing he says you only print what you need. >> so in short, if an alien came down to planet earth and saw these two ways of building and said from first principles which is better, the alien would go stronger, faster, term night termite resistant, fire resistant? by a mile, this is the best way to build. >> the old school construction workers may disagree. if ballard sounds a little like a revved up salesman or a preacher, there is a reason for that. he grew up in east texas, a studious, outdoorsy spiritual kid, first in his family to graduate from college. you were thinking about becoming an episcopal priest? >> yeah, i was almost an episcopal priest. but along the way, i started getting this itch about housing not being right. so i studied conservation

biology. i got involved in sustainable building, and i worked at the local homeless shelter. so now i'm thinking about homelessness, and i'm working in sustainable building. along the way, my hometown gets destroyed by a hurricane. and i have to go help my family pull drywall out of their house. >> oh, wow. >> i feel like life is putting housing in front of me, right as i've been approved to go to seminary. so i go to my bishop, the bishop of texas, andy doyle. he is still the bishop of texas, and said what do i do? and at the end, he said jason, i want you to pursue this housing thing. this is your priesthood. this is your vocation. and if it doesn't work out, the church has been here a long time. we'll still be here. >> that must have turned the switch for you. >> it did. it made it more than a hobby or a business. it sort of became a mission. >> he began pursuing that mission with evan loomis, a buddy from texas a&m who had gone into finance. >> as we looked at it, nobody had incorporate kind of the holy trinity of innovation to

housing, which was robotics, advanced materials and software. >> so in a borrowed warehouse on nights and weekends, and having read everything they could find about the mechanics of 3d printing, they decide to design a 3d printer that could make a building. how big was it? >> it was 10 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet. it would have printed, if we had ever gotten it to work, which we did not, it would have printed a 100 square foot demonstration building. >> they didn't get it to work, but enter alex le roux, a recent baylor engineering graduate who was tinkering with a similar idea. did you ever actually build anything? >> yeah, i did. >> what was it? >> a printed shed. a shed doesn't sound too cool, but it was a big milestone. >> it's a real structure. >> the three cofounded icon in 2017 and soon got funding to print a small house to unveil at austin's south by southwest festival the following spring.

they built a new larger printer that worked. >> and we got really excited. >> okay, jason, where are we right now? >> we are printing the world's first permitted 3d printed house. >> but the kinks hadn't quite been worked out. >> so at one point we ran the printer into the print. >> explain that. >> it's supposed to go up, and it went down and drove into the house. pushed a bunch of layers off. >> funny now, but not so much at the time. >> some engineers, folks who were helping us sat us down and said guys, it's been a great effort, but you're not going to get there. why don't you guys get some rest. we were basically, get out of here. anyone who wants to finish this home may stay. everyone else needs to leave. >> and the three of you all agreed on that? >> yeah. >> we knew that we were on to something. >> and this was our shot. and we weren't going miss it. >> alex? >> they worked around the clock and made the festival deadline by just hours.

>> steve ballard, any words for the victory lap? >> never, never, never, never give up. i stand by those words. yeah, sure. never give up. >> he showed us the 350-square-foot finished house. >> it's a small little house, but it's kind of elegant. >> all be. it's not so bad. >> i think that's how people felt about it. it was better than expected. it was easy to believe, well, they'll get better. >> that small little house won icon a lot of attention, an innovation award, investors, meetings with the military, and with another austin innovator alan graham, who created a village called community first that provides small homes to several hundred of the formerly homeless. >> our goal was really the most despised outcasts lost and forgotten of our community. >> wow. >> average time on the streets is nine years. average age of death is 59.

>> it's an absolute miracle out there. so when we were ready to start building homes, one of the first organizations we reached out to was alan graham. >> so icon 3d printed a welcome center, and then six small houses for village residents. that's how 73-year-old tim shea, who battled heroin addiction for decades in 2020 became the first person in this country to live in a 3d printed home. before i saw these houses, in my mind, i thought it must be cold. you're shaking because you don't think that? >> no. it's just the opposite. you feel embraced or enveloped. >> people that live, that are in the economic strata of the men and women that we serve are going to be the last people on the planet that are going to benefit out of new technology. and he wanted to make sure that they were the first.

>> the first person in north america to live in a 3d printed house was homeless? >> yeah. isn't that something? >> the years since have seen tremendous growth for icon. a new factory to build more printers and improve the quality of its concrete, and a facility called printland to experiment with new designs. icon has printed small homes in rural mexico, vehicle hide structures for the marine corps, huge barracks for the army and air force, and a deluxe showcase home featuring wavy walls and curves that would be prohibitively expensive if built traditionally. but not when programmed into a 3d printer. so in your minds, is your customer a homeless person or is your customer me? >> there is a trick here. because what our heart wants to do is to serve the very poor. it's often been confusing for people to understand. i thought you guys are helping homelessness. why are you building that fancy

house? i would resign if i was only allowed to build luxury homes, and we would go bankrupt right now if all we built was 3% margin homes for homeless people. but once this technology arrives and it's full force, i think it fundamentally transforms the way we build. >> and not just on the earth. 3d printing on the moon, when we come back. i've struggled with generalized myasthenia gravis.. but the pipicture started chchanging whwhen i startrted on vyvgvga. vyvgart isis for adultlts wh generaralized myasasthenia gras who o are anti-a-achr antitibody posititive. inin a clinicacal trial, vyvgvgart signifificantly imimd momost particicipants' abibiy to do dadaily activivities when addeded to theirr cucurrent gmg g treatment.. most p participantnts taking vyvyvgart also hadad less muscscle weak. and yourur vyvgart treaeatment schehedule

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it has been a staple of science fiction forever, humans living and working on the moon. but for nasa, that dream is almost within reach. their new artemis program plans to return american astronauts to the moon for the first time in more than 50 years. this time not just to visit but eventually to stay. and even use the moon as a base for exploring mars and beyond. but staying on the moon requires

infrastructure, landing pads, roads, housing. and you can't exactly bring 2 x 4s and sheetrock on a spacecraft. that's where 3d printing comes in. nasa is partnering with jason ballard's company icon to pioneer 3d printing on the moon. >> three, two, one, and liftoff of artemis i. >> last fall, nasa launched the first in a series of artemis missions. >> back to the moon and beyond. >> the next with crew on board is scheduled for next fall. by the end of a decade, an icon printer is supposed to fly to the moon to test print part of a landing pad. jason ballard, who once applied to be an astronaut but was rejected can't wait. >> if the schedule holds or even approximately holds, the first object ever built on another world will be built with icon hardware. >> he wants icon to be the first

company to make something on another world. >> so do we. >> at marshall space flight center in huntsville, alabama, nasa scientist jennifer edmunson and corky clinton run a program called mmpact, spelled m-m-p-a-c-t. >> ewent to mars planetary autonomous construction technology. >> you at nasa come up with these very long names. >> that's why we call it mmpact. >> the key word there is autonomous. >> we want to be able to make structures that we need without having to be tended by astronauts. >> if you're going to have a truly sustainable presence on the lunar surface, you have to be as earth independent as possible. >> nasa was interested in 3d printing, having looked at an early version almost 20 years ago. so when they heard about the progress icon had made with their first houses in austin,

corky clinton traveled there to take a look. >> being an engineer, i spent a lot of my time going around and looking at the size of the beads and how they went around the corners. i'll tell you, i was really impressed with what they had accomplished. >> impressed enough that nasa gave icon development money in 2020 and then last fall a $57 million contract. >> welcome to space lab, leslie. this is where we figure out how to build on other worlds. >> ballard and evan jenson who leads the project explained the fundamental challenge. >> to bring an object roughly this size from earth to the moon surface would be $1 million. think of how many sort of brick-sized things we would need to do launch pad, landing pad, roads, habitats. we have to learn to live off the land. >> you have to learn to build there it and use the materials in there. >> that's right. >> but that's no easy feat. it means using what's called lunar regolith, which covers the

moon's surface rather than concrete and water as a building material. >> regolith is made up of rock that has been pummelled over billions of years from asteroids, comets and things. >> is it like sand? >> it's actually finer than sand. >> icon has a big tub full of simulated moon regolith, and they have invented and built a robotic system to 3d print with it. you're going to build all those roads and buildings out of this? >> that's correct. the robots will. >> this is actually the mission that we're scheduled to fly. >> as he pointed out in this rendering -- >> our robotic arm with our laser system. >> they've created a whole new way to 3d print with lasers. instead of a nozzle squirting out soft concrete, a high intensity laser beam will melt the powdery regolith to transform it into a hard, strong building material. they're running experiments now

using the laser to create a small sample. >> once that red light is on, we're hot. >> oh. >> lots of power. here we go. >> here we go! >> we watched on monitors as the arm got into position. >> there is the laser. >> oh, that white thing is the laser. it's going up to say 1500 degrees celsius. >> it's going to complete its second pass. you can see it emerging there. see the dark object on the screen? that's the object we just made with the laser. >> they can add more regolith and laser again and again to build in layers to go as high as they want, which will be done remotely from earth. it takes hours to cool. so they showed me a sample they'd made days earlier. >> this is pretty darn hard. >> that's our landing pad. you're holding it. >> i'm holding the landing pad. >> that's exactly right. >> it's pretty cool. that's a scientific term. icon sends them to nasa, where they're blasted with a special

plasma torch. >> the torch will be about 4,000 degrees. >> to see if they can take the heat a landing pad would have to withstand. >> see there? >> oh, there it is. >> the torch is so bright, you have to watch on a monitor. >> that was it. >> a few minutes later, out it came. >> oh. it's just a little bit warm. >> it looks good to me. i don't see any loss of material. i don't see any cratering. >> it survived the test. >> it passed the test with flying colors. >> the next test will be operating the entire robotic arm and laser. >> we'll put in a large scale simulant bed. >> inside nasa's giant thermal vacuum chamber, which mimics the moon's extreme cold, heat, and vacuum conditions. >> this is sort of like a -- >> ballard's idea is to

eventually send mobile 3d printers to the moon. >> so this moves the printer around. which a longer robotic arm sticking out of the top to print whatever is needed. >> and then they would build the road, and they would bill those habitats. >> and they wouldn't stop there. >> if we can do it on the moon we can do it on mars. and the moon is actually harder. >> it's harder? >> mars is easier, except it's so far away. >> easier they agree, because for one thing, mars doesn't have extreme temperature swings. still, in my mind, it's science fiction. but in your minds, it's absolutely in the palm of your hand. it's going to happen. >> we can see the steps and the technology to get us there. >> now that's thrilling. >> it's exciting. >> quality can't go backwards in block 4. >> icon says trying to 3d print on the moon and mars is helping with their work here on earth. they are formulating new mixes

to reduce the carbon footprint of their concrete. >> we think we'll be there by end of year. >> and they're trying out more radical architecture. >> quite complex shapes in geometry. almost looks like ripples on the surface of water. >> patterned walls. >> it's very subtle. >> oh, look at this! >> it almost looks impossible. >> and next year, as in these renderings, they'll be printing round hotel rooms in marfa, texas, and futuristic looking designer homes. >> you see a bedroom on that end with a shower and a bedroom here. here are some renderings of the interior. >> wow! >> right? it gets you going, doesn't it? >> we're living at a time right now where a lot of ceos have been caught overpromising, hyping, i'm thinking of theranos. >> you're absolutely right. and it's a tougher thing than you know, because part of the job is to get your investors, get your team, in our case the world to believe the things you are saying.

except the things you are saying don't exist yet. >> yeah. >> you need to get them to believe. so it's hard to know even -- i haven't actually yet told you all the things i believe we're going to do, because i'm measuring myself. >> give us one example. something wild. >> i mean, in the future, i think most buildings will be designed by ai. most products will be run by software, and almost everything will be built by robots. and i don't think that's that far away. >> i at my age find that very depressing. but i'm sure young people don't. >> that world, housing will be more abundant, more affordable, more beautiful. it will make this version of housing look depressing by example. >> you know that expression, if it seems too good to be true, it is? >> or -- i do know that expression. but cars and airplanes and moon

landings seemed too good to be for a moment. so maybe the only proof i can give you is i'm betting my life on it. i have this one precious life to live, and i'm using to it do this. and if i could think of a better way, i'd be doing that instead, or i'd go fishing. because it's so hard. >> and you like fishing. >> i love fishing. (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships with no children and no casinos. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all-inclusive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com. (light acoustic c music playa) (eagagle screechches) (energetic m music playsys) ththere he is!s! it's rigight there!! ♪ ohoh, he's strtraight aheae. he's straiaight ahead.d.

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i'm scott pelley. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." >> show time, baby. >> more with super sport agent rich paul, live tomorrow on "cbs mornings."