- lift the clouds off of... - virtual weather, only on kpix and pix+. welcome back to "face the nation." we return to our conversation now with minneapolis federal reserve bank president kneel kcash kari. there are so many americans

traveling this weekend that the tsa says it's the highest volume -- second highest volume day they've seen all year. credit card balances are going up. if americans are under strain, they're not really cutting back much. how is that challenging your decision making? >> it's a great question, margaret. there are a bunch of changes that have happened since the pandemic. for example, americans are saving less money. a lower percentage of their income. how long is that going to endure? we are looking at what i call the high pressure economy in some dimensions but there's also some evidence that it's cooling. we do know that the more well to do, the people that you talked about in your segment, they tend to be spending more. on the other end of the distribution we see people with lower credit scores. their delinquencies are rising. it's not an all good scenario by any stretch. we are seeing some underlying resilience. we also have to pay attention to those who are struggling to make ends meet. >> the white house has this

council of economic advisers and put out a report saying that greater availability right now of dock workers and truck drivers accounted for 86% of the reduction of inflation since 2022. how much is the supply of workers affecting prices? and is this a sign that this high degree of immigration is really impacting inflation too? >> well, there's no question the big inflation that we saw over the last few years, a lot of it was driven by disruptions in supply. you know, not enough workers as well as supply chains getting disrupted. many of those things have gotten a lot better. workers have come back. as you just indicated, a lot of immigration. that's helped fill a lot of jobs that have been open. those have on the margin helped to bring down inflation. the net effect of immigration long run, they work hard, contribute to our economy, need a place to live. they also eat.

so they also have demand for services and goods. what the net effect on inflation is over the long run is a little bit harder to judge, but i think right now the fact that many americans are coming back to work and taking jobs that need to be filled, that's really helping our economy get back on track. we have to finish the job. we're around 3% inflation rate right now. we have to bring it back down to our 2% target. >> i know that the fed is apolitical, but we're in an election year. the economy and inflation are top of mind for a lot of people. you mentioned the impact on housing. senate democrats like elizabeth warren wrote a letter to chair powell about the housing shortage and urged him to cut interest rates because she was arguing higher borrowing costs are discouraging people from building new homes. on the other side of the political aisle you have the republican presidential candidate, donald trump, complaining about high mortgage rates and connecting it to

migrants. are you concerned here that elected officials are really politicizing the fed? >> well, you know, people criticize us all the time. the best thing we can do when the political winds blow is to focus on our dual mandate goals. chair powell was asked the same question about housing in this press conference and he was right to point out that we've had a shortage of housing for a decade or more. the best thing that the federal reserve can do is get inflation back down to target and that will allow mortgage rates to go back down to normal levels. if we simply cut interest rates to try to support homeownership right now, that would probably push up the price of houses and it actually wouldn't lead to any better affordability. the best thing we can do is do our jobs, get inflation back down to our target and then hopefully the supply side of the economy can step in to build the homes that americans need. >> i wonder your thoughts on what treasury secretary yellen has talked about with her plan

to have the largest economies in the g7 give a loan to ukraine using the interest from the accounts that russia has overseas. $280 billion worth of frozen assets. she's not touching those assets but taking the interest. do you have any concerns about that in terms of the impact on the banking system? >> i don't have concerns about the stability of the banking system and what that would do to large global banks. i think that is really a policy call for the executive branch and their allies around the world to decide. ultimately the dollar is the responsibility of the u.s. treasury department and understanding how people would view the dollar given these types of moves, that's really for them to decide. from a banking stability perspective, i don't see any financial stability concerns that come to mind for me. >> that's an interesting plan and we're going to track that. neel, always good to have your insights. we'll be right back.

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we're joined by a former top counter terrorism official. she is a national security contributor here at cbs. good to have you back. i'd like to have you help us digest some of what we talked about with this arrest of these eight individuals who made it all the way from central asia through the southern border and were arrested this past week by the fbi and i.c.e. there was no derogatory information found on them when they were scooped up initially. how thorough is the vetting done by federal border agents? >> margaret, let me put vetting in context. i was responsible for screening and vetting policy at dhs. every individual encountered at the border is vetted. what that means is individual's identities are run against certain datasets or watch lists of terrorism related and other derogatory information, however,

the vetting is only as good as the underlying content in those watch lists, and i do believe that we have under resourced foreign terrorism-related intelligence collection, analysis and distribution in a way that is adversely impacting the quality of those watch lists themselves. we do have gaps when it comes, for example, to information on bad actors in central asia. so today i am less concerned about an individual on our watch list sneaking through our southern border than i am about a bad actor who is unknown to us, and that's why we need to urgently prioritize deepening intelligence partnerships with countries in central asia and ensuring that we are fully exploiting all of the intelligence that has been collected to date on bad actors, their travel patterns and more. >> and when you say under resourced, congress controls the pursestrings and the allocations of that including chair turner's committee would have a voice in that, correct?

>> yes, that is true. at the same time, the federal government has made decisions about other intelligence priorities. great power competition has taken resources away from foreign terrorism priorities like isis and al qaeda, and i do believe has led to somewhat of a misassessment of the objectives of what had previously been viewed of regional affiliates of isis k and corson which has global ambitions rather than staying focused on afghanistan, pakistan. >> you raise an important point that we have, just to connect for people, we no longer have a presence in afghanistan and the intelligence capabilities we once did when there was military presence on the ground so those surrounding countries that we're talking about, whether it's tajikistan oruzbekistan, those are isis k emanating out of? >> we did lose battlefield intelligence when we withdrew

from afghanistan and iraq. we also know that isis has really leveraged a global franchise model, if you will, where they have built up regional affiliates, for example, in parts of central asia. isis k is the regional affiliate in that part of the world, but what we are now seeing is these regional affiliates conducting attacks in an ever expanding geographic scope. what that means is we need more and better intelligence on individuals in these areas because they do seek to do harm in europe. we had a worldwide threat advisory as well as potentially here in the homeland. >> you had the state department explain that the u.s. and turkey were sanctioning three individuals who had ties to isis k and a network of human smugglers trying to bring people here to the u.s. that brings us back to the southern border. you know, how much of the vulnerability is it? >> well, turkey has been a

relatively uneven counterterrorism partner. they have taken action to, number one, sanction individuals and try to address some known facilitation routes for human smugglers. our southern border does present a security risk when it comes to bad actors trying to gain access to this country. to address the risks at our southern border, we need to ensure that federal agents are appropriately resourced. we need to ensure, again, that we have the right intelligence feeding our watch lists so we know what to watch out for and we need to disincentivize individuals from trying to come here in the first place. >> so does -- given that the president just had this executive order that may be challenged in court but trying to shut down asylum in crossing the border, does he also have the authority to shut down travel from these areas of concern in specific countries? could he do that? >> just to clarify, the president isn't trying to shut down asylum at the border. he is trying to restrict asylum

between individuals trying to claim asylum between ports of entry which is slightly different. the president under section 212f of the immigration nationality act does have the authority to restrict entry of certain non-citizens under certain circumstances. mr. trump did previously use that authority during covid and that is the authority that president biden is relying on in his latest executive order. >> could he direct it more narrowly towards these areas of concern? i mean, why is it that the inormation you're saying that feeds those watch lists is so poor when it comes to a country like tajikistan? >> president biden, again, could try to use this authority to restrict the travel of certain noncitizens under various circumstances. he could choose to take that route. i do think it would be challenged in court like this current executive order is. by the same token, i think it's critical he works and i know the administration is doing this to deepen intelligence cooperation for these countries. for example, last summer we did

have this threat stream emanating from uzbekistan. that led to a partnership between the united states and uzbekistan. there have been, for example, removal flights of nationals back touzbekistan. i believe the same is being taken with tajikistan. we have customs and border protection and i.c.e. who have broad discretion to make operational moves at the border rather than releasing them into the homeland. >> sam, always good to have you here. >> thanks. >> we'll be right back.

for the first time in four decades, an american company broke ground on a next generation nuclear power plant in the u.s. the company behind the new technology is terra power and it's backed by billionaire bill gates. nuclear power is carbon free which means it doesn't emit the greenhouse glasses scientists claim and gates is building a plant in wyoming at a cost he estimates will be $10 billion.

terrapower's new reactor uses liquid sodium rather than water for cooling which the company says makes nuclear power cheaper, safer and more efficient. we spoke with gates thursday just after he had broken ground. how many more of these do you have planned? >> we have discussions with utilities about building tens of these but -- and we really only have huge impact and success if we get past 100. >> wyoming has to open before you do these or -- >> we can start four or five in parallel. the final, final approval from the regulatory commission is out there in 2030, and so that then gives you the green light to turn the others on. you can start the construction. the demand for electricity in the united states for the first time in a long time is going to go up quite a bit. it's electric cars, buses. some people use electric heat

pumps in homes. just in the last year with these artificial intelligence breakthroughs all the big ai companies are saying, okay, we need to build lots of data centers. so if we don't have nuclear to complement the wind and sun, the country will fall behind the demand for electricity. >> president biden has said even he with all of this money being invested in green energy, that the united states still will need fossil fuels for some time. i mean, that's the reality of what you're skchg out here. it's not either/or. >> right. the growth will be in the clean sources, sun, wind, and nuclear, but we won't get there to be 100% green, you know. the goal is to get rid of all emissions by 2050. even that's pretty ambitious. all of the clean sources will have to do a great job of getting their costs down.

>> when the public hears about nuclear energy though, they think of some of the worst cases that -- and mistakes, three mile island, pennsylvania. chernobyl in the former soviet union. they think of japan, fukushima in 2011. after that japan's government reacted pretty strongly. they shut down many of their plants. they're starting to put them back online, but there was a very sharp reaction then. so how do you respond to people who say, i don't really want this in my backyard? >> well, nuclear, you know, this after heat problem when you shut an erector down, it still has heat. that's why chernobyl was a problem and fukushima. our design goes away because since we use this sodium to cool everything, it can absorb all that heat. >> this is the natrium?

>> right. those accidents were both first in generation, second generation reactors. the third generation reactors dealt with that with a lot of complexity. those reactors are quite safe, but the cost overruns meant that the electricity will be very, very expensive. we solved the safety problem with a much simpler approach but we have to start from scratch. >> for people at home to understand, your reactor and most advanced reactors require this new high assay low enriched uranium. so that supply is really very much owned by russia. how does america get that fuel without putting money in the pocket of vladimir putin? >> yeah. so the u.s. congress recently passed a bill that we supported that says none of the fuel will come out of russia, so the u.s. won't be a customer of that any longer. >> but that's not immediate, correct? >> that's right.

but the money in the bill will get the supply base going in the united states. we also have a supplier in the u.k. we've got a supplier in south africa. we can go to the free world and meet our fuel requirements. the reason we have to delay our schedule from 2028 to 2030 was because of this fuel problem. we didn't anticipate a war in ukraine that changed that completely, so now building up the alternate plan with the federal government helping us figure that out, that's now completely in place. >> so how long before the u.s. can rely on its own fuel for these nuclear reactors? can america become completely energy independent if it's actually switching to nuclear? >> yeah. so the u.s. is very lucky that between the u.s. and canada there's quite a bit of uranium. even in wyoming. specifically there are good

uranium mines there. >> but you have to mine for it? environmental concerns around that? >> you have to have the money and you have to have the manufacturers, and that's the congressional 2.8 billion that they just passed is to get a north america supply chain going. and it was great that the congress took care of that problem, because they're the ones who said we don't want you to buy fuel from russia. >> as an environmentalist you don't have concerns about this kind of mining within the united states? >> well, all mining, you know, is subject to in the case of the u.s. a lot of environmental review to make sure that, you know, as you're pulling stuff out, as the statailings, where you getting those? i feel very comfortable the u.s. is going to make sure there's no environmental concerns about u.s. and canadian mining. >> are you confident that you can continue this project regardless of who wins a

majority or the white house? >> yes, i'm quite confident. i mean, i meet with lots of republicans. i meet with lots of democrats. i'd say that their support for nuclear power is very impressive in both parties. the reasons they support nuclear power may not be identical. the republicans may emphasize the security issues, energy security, exporting these power things to the entire world. the democrats value those things but they also value that it's a clean source of energy and that -- because it's not weather dependent, it can fill in in the periods where the renewables are not producing. so of all the climate-related work i'm doing, i'd say the one that has the most bipartisan energy behind it is actually this nuclear work. >> well, donald trump talks about renewable energy quite a lot on the campaign trail.

when he was president he did sign bills that encouraged nuclear developmnt. >> yes. nuclear -- nuclear really is special. >> its own category of green energy. >> not because it's green. there are people who don't value that part of it, although i wish they would, they value it because of the u.s. leadership. you really don't want the nuclear reactors around the world made by your adversaries because it's economically a huge job creator and because the materials involved in these reactors possibly could be diverted. you want your eye on, you know, making sure that it's not feeding into some military-related activity. so the u.s. leadership in this space has a lot of strategic benefits. >> mr. trump has talked about repealing the inflation reduction act, the ira. that's one of the first things he wants to do. >> yeah. it takes both houses of congress and, you know, i think a lot of

the provisions in there would be preserved. a lot of projects have started. they're creating jobs. a lot of those jobs are in, you know, red states. >> why won't the administration talk more about that? a lot of those jobs are in red states? >> yeah. because those states, you know, move faster, they have a lighter regulatory load. you know, west virginia, wyoming, texas, a lot of them are where the pilot plants are being built. the more that happens, the more that you'll probably see bipartisan support. i'm he not a good predictor of elections, but i think a lot of those credits probably will survive. it's possible some of them won't. >> the u.s. created, right, the nuclear space really with the manhattan project. do you think we can get back as a country to really leading on the innovation on this front? >> well, there is competition. you know, the country that's

building the most nuclear reactors today is china, and they're serious about diversifying their energy sources, getting rid of their greenhouse emissions. the u.s. just tends to be more innovative, whether it's artificial intelligence, new medicines. if we unleash the innovation power of this country, we tend to lead. and i feel great about the support we're getting from the federal government in this nuclear space to take our history of excellence and solve the problem that our current reactors are just way too expensive. so let's make the changes, you know, be willing to out innovate our foreign competitors to maintain that lead. >> we'll be right back. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. some people say, "why should i take prevagen? i don't have a problem with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory.

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that's it for us today. thank you for watching.

happy father's day to my dad and all the dads. until next week. for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan.

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