show, but if you want more, be sure to follow "sports stars of tomorrow" on social media. for everyone here, i'm charles davis. we'll see you next time. (upbeat funky music) (upbeat funky music continues) (upbeat funky music continues and fades) (upbeat music)

good morning, and welcome to mosaic. it is always a pleasure to host mosaic. i want to thank elizabeth and the staff for giving such a wonderful tribute to hugh burrows last month. he was a long time host and producer, over 30 years. i met him back in the early 70s back in east oakland. he was at the high street presbyterian church and i was at the elmhurst united methodist church. we were involved in the east oakland clergy. dr. alfred smith got us involved in the city council and school board and our emphasis on social justice began then. and then hugh was

the pastor for 13 years. and we continued our ministries together and about 17 years ago he asked me to host here and i was mentoring along with elizabeth being a host and we are hateful for all of his ministry. we want to thank his wife for the wonderful celebration of his life we had about five weeks ago in el cerrito. blessings to you, gayle, and your family. you've been all over the world with hugh in your ministry, to pakistan, and i appreciate that. one of the persons he admired deeply was howard thurman. the great, spiritual, religious giant among us.

whenever i had this guest on he said, make sure you allow time for this guest. great to have you with us, dorsey. >> i always appreciate the opportunity. >> you've been there how many years? >> 25 plus, i first went to fellowship church in 1992. the actual celebration of 25 years will be next year. we will also have a major conference, we are expanding it to two or three days. looking at where we are now and how we have reacted to what is happening politically and socially. that will be the focus of next year. and we hope to have it for three days. >> the church for the

fellowship of all people is where? >> san francisco, 2041 market street. the church, as you know was the first intentionally interracial and interfaith church. it was started by dr. thurman and dr. fiske, who believed that if people came together in deep and religious experiences, they would emerge with a sense of unity among them that would cut through all the barriers that people live. we've been going on for 74 years. >> you were talking about different religious backgrounds, races and creeds. >> yes. that includes many different folks, we have jewish

folks, communists, people with no religious background. and dr. thurman has attracted many of them. some people said, this is what this church is about? i want to be a part of it. it was probably his most powerful and well-recognized book and was very influential for many people like dr. howard, dr. king. >> and that meeting with gandhi. >> he met with gandhi in 1936 and was part of the pilgrimage with his wife and two other people that were chosen to go to india. it was not until 1936 that he actually met gandhi. they discussed violence and that is where gandhi said it could be through that time as

the american negro . >> one of the things i was thinking about is, what is dr. thurman matter today? please join us as we talk about howard thurman, his spirituality and his impact on all of us.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been talking to reverend blake about howard thurman. why does howard thurman matter? >> howard thurman believes in the search for common ground. he spent his whole lifetime, he said, for me to be me and you to be you. if i go down deep inside of myself, he believed that we were related. spiritually related. he was always on what he called the scent to find the same thing in you in terms of spirituality

that i find it myself. it is important because, he through the church and other places, put together a model for people to come together, not to divide. he believed that when we are stripped to the literal substance of ourselves, we stand before god, neither male or female, black or white, but there is a whole and imminent cell that is developed. that is not negating our identities but it is a way of saying that there is something within each person that longs for the

hunger of the heart, longs for connection, not only with ourselves but what he calls the all pervading presence.

>> that is a tremendous summary. it is wonderful the way you speak about him. one of my favorite quotes is, find the green in your own wall. >> he matters because his spirituality helped me to find my own spirituality. and to be comreligion is true because it is true. it is not >> that is true because it is in every religion. it allowed me to explore the truth in poetry, nature. he loved the ocean and always liked to stay near water. it was this kind of freeing of the human spirit to search for truth wherever you may find it and accepted as truth. >> allen recently said that if she could see she wanted to spend the first day spending her time in france. and the next time the ocean. >> she was also an

extraordinary person. >> again, you mentioned gandhi. let's go back there for a moment. and the influence on him and the way he talked about nonviolence and the disinherited. i remember the line, what do you do when you have your back against the wall? >> he said he could not find very many servants that ever preached about their person with the back against the wall. and today, there are so many people with their backs against the wall do not have control of society and are constantly crushed. his quest was, how do you live in that kind of situation and maintain integrity? one of the things, when you talk about spiritual,

my question is, how have you lived your life in the knowledge of your truth? how do you carve out and negotiate life and maintain integrity in the present situation? he said that jesus did. this is what jesus did. he made certain decisions about how he will live his life. we all have to do that. and he dealt with those things that really oprah's the oppressed. fear. oppressed people are afraid and don't know what society will do to them. fear keeps them incarcerated. people survive by trying to wear a mask and be hypocritical. there may be some

justification for it. you try to negotiate with people in power. the more you deceive, the more likely it is that you will become a deception yourself. >> amen to that. >> he talks about hatred. and how it consumes you. when you hate somebody, that person controls you. hatred destroys your creativity. your whole living and your whole thoughts go toward the hated object or person rather than taking control of your own life moving forward. that is needed today, too. we need a lot of reaction to what is going on but how do we take control of our own lives and create the world there needs to be? we can do it but there has to be discipline, choices, commitment, face the consequences of that

commitment, but we can do it. one of the most radical things he says when you read that, he says , jesus did it. he talks about the religion and humanity of jesus. he says because jesus was a human being that made these decisions and became an extraordinary person that we still talk about, all of us can do it. >> i love that. i hate to stop it right there. we have to go to a break but that is really a great understanding of thurman and jesus. please come back. i know you will be anxious to come back and hear more in our next segment with reverend dr. dorsey blake.

welcome back. if you didn't know who howard thurman was, you get an idea because of dorsey's intimacy with him. knowing him for all these years. pastoring the church for 25 years now. but you had a complication sometime ago. >> every year we have a convocation that we do it with the anniversary. we had an extraordinary panel and we talked about racism, immigration and collective liberation. we do it not only to introduce and commemorate thurman's life and work but we do it to say, let's move forward. howard thurman was born in florida in 1899. he

became, there are many things about his childhood. he loved the darkness of his -- the sky and really loved nature. he became copastor of the fellowship church in 1944 and in 1953 became the first black man to be deemed in a predominantly white theological seminary. he was there for 12 years and was also able to expand. and he did so many critical things. dance, drama because he always wanted the service to surprise people. because that is part of being awake. >> some of my mentors were there. they talk about that. john foster from the first ministry i worked with always

talk that time. so it is every year ? >> every year, the third sunday in october. >> it is great to hear that. why do you think he influenced so many people? >> i would say, if you read dr. thurman and dr. king, you will see the influence. in many ways, king was the person who applied much of what thurman talked about in terms of social reality. many of the people you mentioned were people who were very much committed to social action. they say that king carried with him all the time a copy of jesus and the disinherited. and people saw in his writings, this extraordinary look at the way

forward. for people to deal with the most critical issues, racism and all kinds of separation. and for king in particular, the families knew each other. thurman new dr. king's father. and misses thurman new martin king's mother because they were both daughters of baptist ministers. one of the things that was very interesting, when dr. thurman was at university, king was also there finishing his doctorate. he went over to the thurman family to watch the world series. it was at that point when he was there talking to dr. thurman and misses thurman asked martin luther king about coming to san francisco to be pastor of the

fellowship church. my question is, what if? what if he had come to san francisco? because that is when she learned he had just decided to go to montgomery. what if he had come to san francisco again? with their have been a civil rights movement to the level that it was without his leadership? there are a lot of questions. and on the surface, san francisco looked like a better place to be. caretta was an opera singer and it did not have the amount of discrimination. >> he was offered so many positions. how many people were trying to read thurman, and let's talk about his role. let's not forget that. please

come back in our last segment as we learn more about howard thurman.

we've been with reverend dr. dorsey blake and he has really shared with us howard thurman, a great deal. even in these few minutes. i asked about some of the books. >> i think the most critical book to read is jesus and the

disinheritance. then he has quite a few books and meditations , for people really interested in racial issues and the racial divide and how it came to be. the luminous of darkness is a book that not many people know about. and one of his favorite books is the inward journey. and for those who like prayer there are so many books . and the other is the mood of christmas. it has so much of his beautiful poetry. >> there are some great ones. and one that just came out, the parables of jesus. his sermons.

i just picked it up. >> after you told me i went in and ordered copies. the installation service in 1994 was a difficult time during my life because i lost my position and what happened at my installation service, misses thurman he presented me with dr. thurman's rope. she said this rope has not been worn since howard's death. this was in 1994. and it was all these years. and lawrence leakey,

well, on the third sunday which is a martin luther king sunday, we will have eric williams who is with the smithsonian institute african-american museum and i will be presenting to him that howard thurman robe. i've had it the whole time. one other person worried, but it has been there and it is a little fragile and thought it might be an inspiration. i was contacted about a photo of him and i said, well, what about his robe? and we also have the robe of dr. fisk. we will be giving both photos of each one of them and the robe of dr. thurman and the robe of dr.

albert fisk. >> we can't go without venturing the 139th psalms. why did he love that so much? >> because it is so intimate. thou knows my down sitting in my uprising by understanding the accomplishments of my path. it sets kind of the walk with the presence. he talks about the light and the darkness. they are both alike unto the. so we don't have these dichotomies, and that is what happens too much in life. he says, no, even with the darkness and the light, there is unity. >> you have to come back. thank you. thank you. praise god.

continue that tremendous work that you're doing because we are learning from it. we hope that you will continue with us next month. i'm ron swisher. blocked from watching the big match? [referee whistle] save the day by using the bank of america customized cash rewards card and choose to earn 3% cash back on online purchases. like live streaming.

from cbs news bay area, this is the morning