see anywhere else. thank you for joining us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> norah: tonight, with just over a month ago until election day, the first and only meeting between the two men who hope to become vice president of the united states. democratic governor tim walz of minnesota and republican senator j.d. vance of ohio. >> margaret: this is likely the final debate of this election cycle and voting is already underway in 20 states. cbs news polling shows this

remains a race either presidential candidate could w win. the cbs news vice president shall debate starts now. >> fight for every single vote and we are going to take this country back. >> we are ready to continue to build the future together. >> we are going to turn this whole country red with president donald j. trump's leadership. >> you know what's at the end of this little journey? kamala harris as the next president of the united states. >> announcer: this is a cbs news special. live from cbs news headquarters in new york, "america decides: the vice presidential debate." >> norah: good evening. i'm norah o'donnell. thank you for joining us for two nights cbs news vice presidential debate. we want to welcome our viewers on cbs, on other networks here in the u.s., and around the world. we have a consequential night ahead. our focus is the issues that matter to you, the voter. let's introduce the candidates. minnesota's democratic

governor tim walz and ohio's republican senator j.d. vance. tonight meeting for the first time. >> margaret: i'm margaret brennan. in order to have a thoughtful and civil debate, these are the rules that both campaigns have agreed to. questions will be directed at one candidate who will have 2 minutes to respond. the other candidate will be allowed to minutes for rebuttal. then each candidate will get another minute to make further points within an additional one minute each at the discretion of the moderator. the primary role of the moderators is to facilitate the debate between the candidates, enforce the rules, and provide the candidates with the opportunity to fact-check claims made by each other. >> norah: cbs news reserves the right to mute the candidates' microphones to maintain decorum. we have not shared the questions or topics with the campaigns. the stage is set. governor, senator, thank you for joining us. let's get started. tonight our country is facing

several unfolding crises. the middle east is on the brink of war. americans are suffering from a catastrophic impact of hurricane helene and now a labor strike as 25,000 dockworkers from maine to texas are picketing. we're going to begin tonight with the middle east. margret. >> margaret: thank you, norah. earlier today, iran launched its t israel but that attack failed thanks to joint u.s. and israeli defense of action. president biden has deployed more than 40,000 u.s. military personnel and assets to that region over the past year to try to prevent a regional war. iran is weakened. but the u.s. still considers that the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world and it has drastically reduced the time it would take to develop a nuclear weapon. it is down now to one or two weeks' time. governor walz, if you were the final voice in the situation room, would you support or

oppose a preemptive strike by israel on iran? you have 2 minutes. >> governor walz: thank you. thank you for those joining at home tonight. let's keep in mind where this started. october 7th, hamas terrorists massacred over 1400's release two prisoners. iran -- israel's ability to be able to defend itself is absolutely fundamental, getting its hostages back, fundamental. and ending the humanitarian crisis in gaza. but the expansion of israel and its proxies is an absolute fundamental necessity for the united states to have steady leadership. he sought experience today where along with our israeli partners and our coalition able to stop the incoming attack. what's fundamental here is a steady leadership is going to matter. it's clear, the world saw it on the debate stage a few weeks ago, nearly 80-year-old donald trump talking about crowd sizes is not what we need in

this moment. it's not just that. it's those that were closest to donald trump that understand how dangerous he is when the world is this dangerous. his chief of staff, john kelly, said he was the most flawed human being he had ever met. both of his secretaries of defense and his national security advisors said he should be nowhere near the white house. the person closest to them, to donald trump, said he's unfit for the highest office. that was senator vance. what we have seen auto vice president harris is we have seen steady leadership. we have seen a columnist that is able to be able to draw on the coalitions to bring them together. understanding that our allies matter. when our allies see donald trump turn towards vladimir putin, turn towards north korea, when we start to see that type of fickleness around holding coalitions together, we will stay committed. as the vice president today, we

will protect our forces and our allied forces and there will be consequences. >> margaret: governor, your time is up. senator vance, same question. would you support or oppose a preemptive strike by israel on iran? >> senator vance: i want to answer the question. thanks, governor. thanks to cbs to hosting the debate and thanks to the american people were watching and caring enough to pay attention to this vice president shall debate. i want to give an introduction to myself a little bit. a lot of americans don't know who either one of us are. i was raised in a working-class family. my mother required food assistance for periods of her life and my grandmother required social security helped raise me. she raised me in part because my own mother struggled with addiction for a big part of my early life. i went to college after i enlisted in the marine corps and served in iraq. i stand here asking to be your vice president with extraordinary gratitude for this country and the american dream they made it possible for me to live my dreams and most importantly i know a lot of you

are worried about the chaos in the world and the feeling the american dream is unattainable. i want to try to convince you tonight over the next 90 minutes that if we get better leadership in the white house, if we get donald trump back in the white house, the american dream is going to be attainable once again. to answer this particular question, we have to remember that as much as governor walz just accused donald trump of being an agent of chaos, donald trump actually delivered stability in the world and he did it by establishing effective deterrence. people were afraid of stepping out of line. iran, which launched this attack, has received over $100 billion in on frozen assets thanks to the kamala harris administration. what did they use that money for? they used it to buy weapons they are launching against our allies and g god forbid potentially launching against the united states as well. donald trump recognized that for people to fear the united states they needed peace through strength. to recognize that if they got out of line the united states would put stability and peace back in the world.

you asked about a preemptive strike, margaret. i want to answer the question. it's up to israel what they think they need to do to keep their country safe. we should support our allies wherever they are they are fighting the bad guys. that's the right approach to take with the israel question. >> margaret: thank you, senator brit governor walz, do you care to respond to any of the allegations? >> governor walz: donald trump was in office. when donald trump was in office, it was donald trump who, we had a coalition of nations that had boxed your rands nuclear program in, the inability to advance it. donald trump pulled that program and put nothing else in its place so iran is closer to a nuclear weapon than they were before because of donald trump's fickle leadership. when iran shot down an american aircraft in international airspace, donald trump tweeted, because that's the standard diplomacy of donald trump and when iranian missiles did fall near u.s. troops and they received traumatic brain

injuries, donald trump wrote it off as headaches. look, our allies understand that donald trump's fickle. he will go to whoever has the most flattery or where it makes sense to him. steady leadership like you witnessed today, like you witnessed in april, both iranian attacks were repelled. our coalition is strong. we need this to the leadership that, harris is providing. >> margaret: senator vance, the u.s. did have a diplomatic deal with iran to temporarily pause parts of its nuclear program and president trump did exit that deal. he recently said just five days ago the u.s. must now make a diplomatic deal with iran because the consequences are impossible. did he make a mistake question i.q. of one minute. >> senator vance: diplomacy is not a dirty word but something governor walz that is extraordinary. you yourself that iran is as close to a nuclear weapon today as they have ever been. governor walz claimed

donald trump who has been the vice president for the last three and a half years and the answer is your running mate, not mine. donald trump consistently made the world more secure. we talk about the sequence of events that led us to where we are right now and you can ignore october the 7th which i appreciate governor walz bringing up. when did iran and hamas and their proxies attack israel? it was during the administration of kamala harris. governor walz can criticize donald trump's tweets but effective, smart diplomacy and peace through strength is how you bring stability back to a very broken world. donald trump has already done it once before. ask yourself at home. when was the last time, i'm 40 years old, when was the last time an american president didn't have a major conflict breakout question aren't the only answer was during the four years donald trump was present. >> margaret: gentlemen, we have a lot to get to. >> norah: margaret, thank you. let's turn to hurricane helene. the storm could become one of the deadliest on record.

more than 160 people are dead and hundreds more are missing. scientists say climate change makes these hurricanes larger, stronger, and more deadly because of the historic rainfall. senator vance, according to cbs news poll one, seven in ten americans and more than 60% of republicans under the age of 45 favor the u.s. taking steps to try and reduce climate change. senator, what responsibility with the trump administration have to try and reduce the impact of climate change? i'll give you 2 minutes. >> senator vance: let's start with the hurricane because it's an unbelievable, unspeakable human tragedy. i saw today actually a photograph of two grandparents on a roof with a 6-year-old child and it was the last photograph ever taken of them because the roof collapsed and those innocent people lost their lives. i'm sure governor walz joins me in saying our hearts go out to those innocent people. our prayers go out to them. we want as robust and aggressive

federal response as we can get. to save as many lives as possible and help communities rebuild. some of them i know personally in appalachia, all across the southeast. they need their government to do their job and i commit that when donald trump is president again, the government will put the citizens of this country first when they suffer from a disaster. you are asked about -- you asked about climate change. a lot of people are justifiably worried about these crazy weather patterns. it's important for us to say donald trump and i support clean air, clean water. want the environment to be cleaner and safer. one thing i've noticed our democrat friends talking about is a concern about carbon emissions, this idea that carbon emissions drives all the climate change. let's say that true for the sake of argument so we are not arguing about weird signs. let's say it's true. if you believe that, would you want to do question the answer is you would want to reassure as much american manufacturing as possible and produce as much energy as possible in the

united states of america because are the cleanest economy in the entire world. what have kamala harris' policies lead to? more energy production in china, more manufacturing overseas, more doing business in some of the dirtiest parts of the entire world. when i say that, the amount of carbon emissions per unit of economic output. if we care about getting cleaner air and cleaner water, the best thing to do is to double down and investing american workers and the american people. unfortunately, harris has done exactly the opposite. >> norah: governor walz, you have 2 minutes to respond. >> governor walz: we got close to an agreement because all of the things are happening. first of all, it's a horrific tragedy with his hurricane. my heart goes out to the folks down there. in contact with governors. i serve as cochair of the council of governors. we worked together on these emergency management spurred governors know no partisanship. they were together. the governors and emergency responders are on the ground. the federal government comes in

and make sure that they are there. we are still in that phase where we need to make sure they are staying there, staying focused. coming back to the climate change issue, there's no doubt this thing roared onto the scene faster and stronger than anything we've seen. senator vance has said there's a climate problem. donald trump called it a hoax and then joked these things would make more beachfront property to invest in. what we have seen out of the paris administration, now, the biden-harris administration, we have seen this investment, massive investments the biggest and global history we have seen in the inflation reduction act has created jobs all across the country. 2,000 and jeffersonville ohio. taking the ev technology we invented and making it here. the largest solar manufacturing plant in north america in minnesota. my farmers know climate change is real. they have seen 500 year droughts, 500 year floods back-to-back. what they are doing is adapting and it's allowed them to tell

me, "i harvest corn, soybean, wind." producing more natural gas and oil that we have at any time. producing more clean energy. the solution for us is to continue to move forward, the climate change is real. reducing our impact is absolutely critical. this is not a full choice. you can do that at the same time you're creating the jobs that we are seeing all across the country. that's exactly with this administration is done. we are seeing us become an energy superpower for the future, not just the current. that's what absolutely makes sense. and then we start thinking about how do we mitigate these disasters. >> norah: thank you. senator, i want to give you an opportunity to respond. the governor mentioned president trump has called climate change a hoax. do you agree? >> senator vance: what the president has said, if the democrats and in particular kamala harris and her leadership, the if they believe climate change is serious what they would be doing is more manufacturing and more energy production in the united statesf america and asked not what they are doing.

clearly kamala harris herself doesn't believe her own rhetoric on this. if she did, she would agree with donald trump's energy policies. there is something governor walz said i think is important to touch upon because when we talk about clean energy, i think that's a slogan that often the democrats will use here. talking about the democratic leadership and the real issue is if you're spending hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars of american taxpayer money on solar panels that are made in china, number one, you're going to make the economy dirtier. we should be making more solar panels here. some of them are but a lot of them are being made overseas in china, especially the components that go into the solar panels. if you really want to make the environment cleaner, you've got to invest in more energy production. we built a nuclear facility, one in the past 40 years. natural gas part of got invest more. kamala harris has done the opposite. raise energy prices and -- >> norah: senator, your time is up. governor, would you like to

respond? >> governor walz: we are producing more natural gas than we ever have. we are producing more oil. like i said, these are not liberal folks, not green new deal folks, these are farmers that have drought one year, massive flooding the next year. they understand it make sense. our number one export cannot be topsoil from erosion from these massive storms. we saw it in minnesota this summer. thinking about how do we respond to that? we are thinking ahead on this and want, harris has been able to do, in minnesota, we are starting to weatherproof somethings. the infrastructure law that was passed allows us to think about mitigation in the future. how do we make sure we are protected by burying power lines, protecting lakefront and things. call it a hoax and take the oil company executives to mar-a-lago and say give me money for my campaign that will let you do whatever you want, we can be smarter about that and an energy policy, creating those jobs right here.

>> norah: governor, your time is up. the overwhelming consensus among scientists is that the earth's climate is warming at an unprecedented rate. >> margaret: we are going to turn to immigration, the crisis at the u.s. mexico border consistently ranks as one of the top issues for american voters. senator vance, your campaign is pledging to carry out the largest mass deportation plan in american history and to use the u.s. military to do so. could you be more specific about exactly how this will work? for example, would you deport parents who have entered the u.s. illegally and separate them from any of their children who were born on u.s. soil? you h have 2 minutes. >> senator vance: first of all, before we talk about deportations, we have to stop the bleeding. we have a historic immigration process because, harris started and said that she wanted to undo all of donald trump's border policies. 94 executive orders suspending

deportations, decriminalizing illegal aliens. massively increasing the asylum fraud that exists in our system. that's open the floodgates. what it has meant is a lot of fentanyl is coming into our contribute item mother who struggled with opioid addiction and has gotten clean. i don't want people were struggling with addiction to be deprived of their second chance because kamala harris let in fentanyl into our communities at record levels but you've got to stop the bleeding. you've got to reimplement donald trump's border policies, build a wall, reimplement deportations, and that gets me to your point about what do we do? we've got 20 million, 25 million illegal aliens here in the country. the first thing we do is start with the criminal migrants. about a million of those people have committed some form of crime in addition to crossing the border illegally. i think you start with deportations on those folks. and then i think you make it harder for illegal aliens to undercut the wages of american workers. a lot of people will go home if they can't work for less than

minimum wage in her own country. that will be good for our workers who just want to earn a fair wage for doing a good day's work. the final point, margaret, you asked about family separation. right now in this country, margaret, we have 320,000 children the department of homeland security has effectively lost. some of the trickle of them have been traffic. some hopefully are at homes with their families. some have been used as drug trafficking mules. the real family separation in this country is unfortunately kamala harris is wide open southern border. i would ask my fellow americans to remember when she came into office she said she would do this. real leadership would say "i screwed up your little go back to donald trump's policies." i wish she would do that. >> margaret: governor, do you care to respond to the allegations? including that the vice president is living in fentanyl. and using kids as drug mules

about other things. >> governor walz: the drug mules, not true but i will say about fentanyl. the good news is, the last 12 months, the largest decrease in opioid deaths. 30% decrease in ohio. there is still more work to do but let's go back to this. kamala harris was the attorney general of the largest border state and california. she's the only person in this race who prosecuted transnational gangs for human trafficking and drug interventions. look, we all want to solve it. most of us want to solve this. that is the united states congress. that's the border patrol agents, the chamber of commerce, most americans, that's why we had the fairest and toughest bill on immigration that this nation has seen. it was crafted by a conservative senator from oklahoma, james lankford. i know him. he is super conservative but he's a man of principle and wants to get it done. democrats and republicans worked on the legislation. the border patrol said this is what we need. the chamber of commerce and "wall street journal" said

passe. kamala harris helped get there. 1500 new border agents, detection for drugs, doj money to speed up the adjudications on this, just what america wants. as soon as it was getting ready to pass and tackle it, donald trump said no, told them to vote against it because it gives him a campaign issue. what would donald trump talk about if we did these things? they need to be done by the legislature. you can't just do this to the executive branch. look, we have the option to do this. donald trump had four years. he had four years to do this and he promised you, america, how easy would be. i will build you a big beautiful wall and mexico will pay for it. less than 2% of the wall got built and mexico didn't pay a dime ut here we are nine years after he came down the escalator, dehumanizing people and telling them what he was going to do. as far as the deportation plan, at one point senator vance said it was so unworkable to be laughable. that's where we're at.

pass the bill. she was signing. >> margaret: governor, your time is up her senator, the question was with you separate appearance from their children even if their kids are u.s. citizens? you of one minute. >> senator vance: my point is we have massive child separations thanks to kamala harris' open border. i didn't accuse kamala harris of inviting drug mules. i said she let cartels operate freely. we know they use children as drug mules and it's a disgrace that has to stop. what tim said doesn't pass the smell test. for three years, harris went out bragging she was going to undo donald trump border policies. we had a record number of illegal crossings, record number of fentanyl coming in the country now that she's running for president or a few months before, she says that somehow she got religion and cared a lot about a piece of legislation. the only thing she did when she became the vice president, when she became the appointed border

czar was to undo 94 donald trump executive actions that opened the border. it's leading to massive problems. parents who can afford health care, schools are overwhelmed, it's got to stop and it will when donald trump's president. speech senator, your time is up. governor, what about our cbs news bowling which show that america of americans, more than 50% sups deportations. >> governor walz: we fix this issue with the bill that's mrs. berry but this is what happens when you don't want to solve it, you demonize it. we saw this. senator vance. it surprises me. talking me and talking about i will create stories to bring attention to this. and vilified a large number of people here illegally in the community of springfield. the republican governor said it's not true, don't do it. there's consequences for this. we could come together. senator lankford dented. we could come together and solve this. if we didn't let donald trump

continue to make it an issue. the consequences in springfield where the governor had to send state law enforcement to escort kindergartners to school. i believe senator vance wants to solve this but by standing with donald trump and not working together to find a solution, it becomes a talking point. when it becomes a talking point like this, we dehumanize and villainize other human beings. >> margaret: senator, i will give you one minute. let me ask you the question first. the governor has made the point and i think as a sitting lawmaker, you know that congress controls the purse strings and funding. you have said repeatedly that donald trump would through executive action solve this. do you disagree that congress controls the purse strings and would need to support many of the changes that you would actually want to implement? you have one minute. >> senator vance: the gross majority of what we need to do

is empowering law enforcement to do their job. i've been to the southern border more than the border czar, kamala harris has been. it's heartbreaking. the border patrol agents want to be empowered to do their job. additional resources would help but most of this is about the president and vice president empowering law enforcement to say if you try to come across the border illegally you've got to stay in mexico. you've got to go back through proper channels. governor walz brought up the community of springfield and he's very worried about the things i've said in spring field. in springfield, ohio, and in communities all across this country, you've got schools that are overwhelmed, hospitals that are overwhelmed. you've got housing totally unaffordable because we brought in millions of illegal immigrants to compete with americans for scarce homes. the people i am most worried about in springfield, ohio, aree the american citizens who had their lives destroyed by kamala harris' open border. it's a disgrace, tim. i agree with you. i think you want to solve this

problem but i don't think kamala harris does. >> margaret: governor, you have one minute to respond. >> governor walz: it is law enforcement and ask for the bill. they helped crafted. they are the ones that supported it. it was -- they know we need to do this. this issue of continuing to bring this up, of not dealing with that, of blaming migrants for everything, on housing, we can talk a little bit about wall street speculators buying up housing and making it less affordable. it becomes a blame. this bill also gives the money necessary to adjudicate. i agree it should not take seven years for an asylum claim to be done. this bill gets it done in 90 days. then you start to make a difference and you start to adhere to what we know, american principles but i don't talk about my faith allotment matthew 25:40 talks about "to the least among you, you do of me. because what they want order. this bill doesn't come it's funded, supported by the people who do it and it lets us keep

our dignity about how we treat people. >> margaret: to clarify, sprinkled ohio does have a large number of haitian migrants who have legal status, temporary protected status. senator, we have so much to get to. >> norah: we are going to turn now to the economy. >> senator vance: the rules were that we are going to fact-check. it's important to say what's going on. there is an application called the cvp one app or you can go as an illegal migrant, apply for asylum or parole and be granted legal status at the wave of a kamala harris open border wand. it's not a person coming in and applying for a green card and waiting for ten years. >> margaret: thank you, senator. >> senator vance: illegal immigration. >> margaret: thank you for describing the process. we have so much to get to, senator. >> governor walz: those laws were on the books since 1990. >> margaret: thank you,

gentlemen. gentlemen. the audience can't hear you. we have so much we want to get to. thank you for explaining the legal process. >> norah: thank you, margaret. the economy is a top concern for voters. each of your campaigns has released an economic plan. let's talk about the specifics. governor walz, vice president harris unveiled a plan that includes billions in tax credits for manufacturing, housing, and% a renewed child tax credit. the wharton school says your proposals will increase the nation's deficit by one point to trillion dollars. how would you pay for that without ballooning the deficit? governor, 2 minutes. >> governor walz: thank you. harris and i do believe in the middle class because that's where we come from. we both grew up in that we understand for those few out there listening, you're hearing stuff back and forth and it's good. it's healthy. that's what supposed to happen. you should be listening. how is it going to impact me? the plan, harris put out there

is talking about this housing issue. the one thing is, there is 3 million new houses proposed under this plan with down payment assistance on the front end to get you in a house. a house is much more than just an asset to be traded somewhere. it's foundational to where you're at. making sure that the things you buy every day, perception drugs or other things, that there is fairness. the $35 insulin is a good thing but it costs $5 to make insulin. they were charging $800 before this law went into before this law went into effect. making sure tax cuts go to the middle class. $6,000 child tax credit. we have one in minnesota. reduces childhood property by a third. we save money in the long run ln and do the families. getting businesses off the ground. the law as it stands is $5,000 tax credit for small business, increasing it to 50,000. this is a philosophical difference. donald trump made a promise and i will give you this, he kept

it. he gave tax cuts to the top. in a trillion dollar increase in the national debt, the largest ever. now he's proposing a 20% consumption or sales tax on everything we bring in. everyone agrees, including businesses, it would be destabilizing, increased inflation and potentially lead to a recession. this is simple. where are we going? harris has had to do the things she wants to do, will ask the wealthy has to pay their fair share. when you do that, our system works best. more people are to participating and folks have things they need. >> norah: some sure, i want to give you a moment to respond. the wharton school has done an analysis of the trump planets has it would increase the nation's deficit by 5.8 trillion. my question is the same for you. how do you pay for all that without ballooning the deficit? i will give you 2 minutes. >> senator vance: first of

all, you're going to hear a lot from tim walz this evening and he just heard, a lot of what, harris proposes to do and some of it i'll be honest with you it even sounds pretty good. here's what you won't hear is that, harris has already done it because she has been the vice president for three and aha half yea she had the opportunity to enact these great policies. when she has done instead is drive the cost of food higher by 20% -- 25%. driving the cost of housing higher by 60%. opening the american southern border and making middle-class life unaffordable. if, harris has such great plans for how to address middle-class problems than she ought to do them now. not one asking for a promotion but in the job the american people gave her three and a half years ago. the fact that she isn't tells you a lot about how much you can trust her actual plans. donald trump's economic plan is not just a plan but it's also a record. a lot of the same economists attacked donald trump's plans and they have phds but they don't have common sense and they

don't have wisdom. donald trump's economic policies delivered the highest take-home pay in a generation in this country. 1.5% inflation. peace and security all over the world. when people say donald trump's economic plan doesn't make sense, i say look at the record. delivered rising take-home pay for american workers. tim admirably admits they want to undo the trump tax cuts but if you look at what was so different about donald trump's tax cuts, even from previous republican tax cut plans is that a lot of those resources went to giving more take-home pay to middle-class and working-class americans. it was passed in 2017 and you saw an american economic boom unlike we've seen in a generation. it's a record i am proud to ron on and we are going to get back to that common sense wisdom so you can afford to live the american dream again. i know a lot of you are struggling and worried about paying the bills. it's going to stop when donald trump brings back common

sense of this country. >> norah: governor, do you want to respond? >> governor walz: kamala harris. donald trump's failure on covid lead to the collapse of the economy. 10 million people out of work, the largest percentage since the great depression. 9 million jobs close. that was day one. whether was the infrastructure act or other things. you made a question about -- i made a note of this. economists can't be trusted. science can't be trusted. national security folks can't be trusted. if you're going to be president, you don't have all the answers. donald trump believes he does. pro tip of the day is this, if you need heart surgery listen to the people at the mayo clinic in rochester, minnesota, not donald trump. teachers, nurses, truck drivers, whatever, how is it fair you're paying your taxes every year and donald trump hasn't paid any federal tax in the last 15 years. that's what's wrong with the

system. there's a way around it. he has bragged about it. we are asking for fairness and that's all you want. >> senator vance: governor, you say trust the experts but those same experts were 40 years that if we shift our manufacturing base after china, we get cheaper goods. they lied about that. they said we shift our industrial base to other countries it would make the middle-class stronger. they were wrong about that. they were wrong about the idea that if we made america less self-reliant, less productive in our own nation that it with m.o. make us better off and they were wrong about it. for the first time in a generation, donald trump had the wisdom and the courage to say to that bipartisan consensus "we are not doing it anymore. we are bringing american manufacturing back. unleashing american energy. make more of our own stuff." not just an economic issue. three beautiful kids at home and i love them very much and i hope they are in bed right now. so many of the drugs, the pharmaceuticals we put in the

bodies of our children are manufactured by nations that hate us. this has to stop. we are not going to stop by listening to experts. we're going to stop by listening to common sense wisdom which is one donald trump governor noem. >> norah: governor walz, can you address that? voters say they trust donald trump on the economy more. why? >> governor walz: if you are listening tonight and you want billionaires to get tax cuts, you are the numbers. i am a union guy on this. i'm not a guy who wanted to ship things overseas but i understand that we produce soybeans and corn. we need to have fair trading partners pray that something we believe in. the thing that most concerns me on this is donald trump was the guy the crate of the largest trade deficit in american history with china. the rhetoric is good. much of what the senator said, i am in agreement with him on this. i watched it happen. i washed it in my communities. we have people undercutting the right to collectively bargain. we had right-to-work states making it more difficult. companies willing to ship it

over and we saw people profit, folks that are venture capital in some cases putting money into companies overseas. we are in agreement that we bring those home. the issue is donald trump is talking about a friend, harris has a record. 250,000 more manufacturing jobs. >> senator vance: may i respond? appreciate that. if you notice when governor walz rested as he sent first of all, donald trump has to listen to the experts. then when he acknowledge the expert screwed up he said donald trump didn't do nearly as good of a job -- >> governor walz: no, that is a gross generalization. >> senator vance: tim, you've got a tough job here because steve got to play whack-a-mole. you got to pretend donald trumpp didn't deliver rising ta pay which he did. you got to pretend donald trump didn't deliver lower inflation which he did and then you simultaneously have got to defend, harasses atrocious economic record which is -- made gas, groceries,

unaffordable. i was raised by a woman who would go into debt to put food on the table. i know what it's like to not be able to afford the things you need to afford. we can do so much better. all of you watching, we can get back to an america that's affordable again. we've just got to get back to common sense economic principles. >> governor walz: i hope we have a conversation on health care then. >> norah: thank you. our great praise be to have a lot to get to. on many topics. right now i want to talk about personal qualifications. the vice president is often the last voice the president hears before making consequential dishes. we want to ask about your leadership qualities. governor walz. you said you were in hong kong during the deadly tiananmen square protests in the spring of 1989. minnesota public radio and other media outlets reporting you actually didn't travel to asia until august of that year. can you explain that

discrepancy? >> governor walz: to the folks out there. i grew up in small, rural nebraska. a town of 400. a town where you rode your bike with your buddies until the streetlights came on. i joined the national guard at 17. worked on family farms and then i use the g.i. field to become a teacher. passionate about it. a young teacher. my first year i got the opportunity in the summer of '89 travel to china. 35 years ago. i came back home and started a program to take young people there. we would take basketball teams love baseball teams, dancers. we would go back and forth to china. the issue was to try and learn. my community knows who i am. they saw where i was at. look, i'll be the first to tell you i have poured my heart into my community. i've tried to do the best i can but i have not been perfect. i am a knucklehead at times. but it's always been about that. those same people elected me to congress for 12 years. in congress, i was one of the

most bipartisan people, working on things like farm bills, working on veterans benefits. then the people of minnesota were able to elect me to governor twice. so look, my commitment has been from the beginning to make sure that i'm there for the people, to make sure that i get this right. i will say more than anything many times i will talk a lot, i will get caught up in the rhetoric. but being there, the impact it made, the difference it made my life, i learned a lot about china. i hear the critiques of this. i would make the case that donald trump should have come on one of those trips with us. i guarantee he wouldn't be praising xi jinping about covid and i guarantee you he wouldn't start a trade war that he ends up losing. it's about trying to understand the world and do the best you can for your community and it's putting yourself out there and letting your folks understand what it is. my commitment, whether it was teaching whether i was -- it i was good at, or being a soldier or a member of congress.

those of the things people care about. >> margaret: governor, to follow-up, the question was can you explain the discrepancy? >> governor walz: all i said is i got there this summer and misspoke on this. that's what i've said. so i was in hong kong and china during the democracy protests. from that, i learned a lot of what needed to be in governance. >> margaret: thank you, governor. senator vance, in 2016, you called your running mate donald trump "unfit for the nation's highest office" and you said he could be america's hitler. you have said you regret those comments and explained that you then voted for donald trump in 2020. "the washington post" reported new messages last week in which you also disparage trumps economic record while he was president, writing to someone in 2020 "trump thoroughly failed to

deliver his economic populism." who are now his running mate and you've shifted many of your policy stances to align with h his. if you become vice president why should americans trust that you will give donald trump the advice he needs to hear? and not just the advice he wants to hear. you have 2 minutes. >> senator vance: first of all, i have always been open and sometimes i have disagreed with the present but i've been extremely open about the fact that i was wrong about donald trump. i believed some of the media stories that turned out to be fabrications but most importantly donald trump delivered for the american people. rising wages, rising take-home pay, an economy that worked for normal americans, secure southern border, a lot of things frankly i didn't think he would be able to live her own. when you screw up, misspeak, you get something wrong and you change your mind you ought to be honest about it. it's one of the reasons why haven't done so many interviews. it's important to explain where i come down on the issues and

will change. you pointed out messages from 2020. i've been extremely consistent but i think there were a lot of things we could've done better in the trump administration, the first round. if congress was doing its job. i believe, and i've been a united states senator, congress is not just a high-class debating forum. it's a form to govern. there's a lot on the border with tariffs where we could have done more if republicans and democrats in congress had been better about how they govern the country. they were obsessed with impeaching donald trump that they couldn't actually govern. i want to talk about this tariff issue because tim just accused it of being a national sales tax. the one thing, probably surprised to hear me praising joe biden but the one thing joe biden did his continued some of the trump tariffs that protected american manufacturing jobs. it's the one issue, the most

pro-worker part of the biden administration, it's the one issue where kamala harris has run away from joe biden's record. think about this, if you're trying to employ slave laborers in china at $3 a day, you're going to do that and undercut the wages of american workers unless our country stands up for itself and says "you're not accessing our markets unless you're paying middle-class americans a fair wage." >> margaret: senator, your time is up. norah. >> norah: to the issue of reproductive rights. governor walz, after roe vs. wade was overturned you signed a bill into law that made minnesota one of the least restrictive states in the nation when it comes to abortion. former president trump said in the last debate that you believe abortion quote, in the ninth month, is absolutely fine. yes or no? is that what you support? >> governor walz: that's not what the bill says. this issue is what's on everyone's mind. donald trump with us all into motion. he brags about how great it was

that he put the judges in an overturn roe vs. wade. 52 years of personal autonomy. then he tells us oh, sent it to the states. it's a beautiful thing. i meant as a war ski would disagree with you that it's a beautiful thing, the young bridr child, she has that complicatio, tear in the membrane. the medical care has to be decided by the doctor. that would have been an abortion but in texas and would've put them in legal jeopardy. she went home, got sepsis, nearly dies and now she may have difficulty having children. or in kentucky. hadley, 12-year-old child, raped and impregnated by her stepfather. senator vance had two wrongs don't make a right. there is no right in this. in minnesota, we made sure we put women in charge of that

health care. if you don't know amanda or a hadley, you will. project 2025 is going to have a registry of pregnancies. it's going to make it more difficult or impossible to get contraception and limit access or if not eliminate access to infertility treatments. for so many, including me, infertility treatments are why i have a child. that's nobody's business but the catchall is the states will decide what's right for texas might not be right for washington. that's not how this works. this is basic human rights are we have seen maternal mortality skyrocket in texas, outpacing many other countries in the world. this is about health care. in minnesota, we are ranked first in health care for a reason. we trust women. we trust doctors. >> norah: senator, do you want to respond? will you create a federal pregnancy monitoring agency?

>> senator vance: certainly we won't. i know americans care about it and i know a lot of americans don't agree with everything i've said on this topic. i grew up in a working class family in a neighborhood where i knew women who had unplanned pregnancies and decided to terminate this pregnancies because they felt they didn't have options. one of them is dear to me and i know she's watching tonight. i love you. she told me something a couple years ago. that she felt like if she hadn't had an apportionment that it would have destroyed her life because she was in an abusive relationship. when i take from that as a republican who proudly wants to protect innocent life in this country, proudly wants to protect the vulnerable, my party, we've got to do so much better of a job and earning the american people's trust back on this issue where they frankly just don't trust us. that's one of the things donald trump and i are endeavoring to do. i want us as a republican party to be pro-family in the fullest sense of the word. i want us to support fertility

treatments. i want us to make it easier for moms to afford to have babies. i want to make it easier for young families to afford a home so they can afford a place to raise that family. i think there's so much we can do on the public-policy front just to give women more options. of course donald trump has been very clear that on the abortion policy specifically that we have a big country and its divers. california has a different viewpoint on this than georgia. georgia has a different viewpoint from arizona. the proper way to handle this, as messy as democracy sometimes is, is to let voters make these decisions. let the individual states make their abortion policy. i think that's what makes the most sense in a very big, very diverse, and let's be honest sometimes a very, very messy and divided country. >> norah: governor, would you like to respond and answer the question about restrictions? >> governor walz: the question got asked and donald trump made the accusation that wasn't true about minnesota. that me tell you about this idea

that there is diverse states. there's a young woman named amber thurman. she was in georgia, restrictive state. she had to travel a long distance to north carolina to try and get her care. amber thurman died in that journey back and forth. the fact of the matter is, how can we as a nation say that your life and your rights, as basic as the right to control your own body, is determined on geography. there is a very real chance had% amber thurman lived in minnesota, she would e alive today. that's why the restoration of roe vs. wade, when you listen to vice president harris talk about this subject and you hear me talk about it, you hear us talking the same. donald trump is trying to figure out how to get to the political right of this. i agree with senator vance abou% what he says what's happening and his running mate does not. >> norah: senator, let me ask you. he mentioned, referring to a

national ban. you've supported a federal ban on abortion. he said if someone can't support legislation like that, you are making the united states the most barbaric pro-abortion regime anywhere in the entire world. why have you changed your position? >> senator vance: first of all, i never supported a national ban. i did when i was running for senate talk about a minimum national standard. we have a partial-birth abortion ban in place in this country of the federal level. i don't think anybody's trying to get rid of that or at least i hope not though i know the democrats have taken a radical one of the things that's changed is in the state of ohio we had a referendum in 2023. the people of ohio voted overwhelmingly -- by the way, against my position. i think when i learned is we've got to do a better job at winning back people's trust. so many young women would love to have families. so many young women also see an unplanned pregnancy is something

that's going to destroy the livelihood, destroy their education, destroy their relationships and we've got to earn people's trust back. that's why donald trump and i are committed to pursuing pro-family policies, making child care more accessible, making fertility treatments more accessible because we've got to do a better job of that. that's what real leadership is. >> norah: governor, your response. >> governor walz: i'm going to respond on the pro-abortion piece of that, no we are not. we are pro-women, pro-freedom to make your own choice. we know what the implications are to not be that. women having miscarriages, women not getting the care. physicians feeling like they may be prosecuted for providing that care. as far as making sure that we are educating our children and giving them option, minnesota has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates. we understand that. the options need to be available only make it true. we are top three state for the best place to raise children. these two things to try and say that we are pro-children but we

don't like this or you guys are pro-abortion, that's not the case at all. we are pro-freedom for women to make their choices and we are going and kamala harris is making the case to make options for children more affordable. $6,000 child tax credit but we are not going to based on the backs of making someone like amber thurman drive 600 master try to get health care. >> senator vance: first of all, i agree ever thurman should still be alive. there are a lot of people who should still be alive and i certainly wish she was. you are free to disagree with me on this and explain this but as i read the minnesota law that you signed into law, the statute you signed into law, it says that a doctor who presides over and abortion where the baby survives the doctor is under no obligation to provide life-saving care to a baby who survives a botched late-term abortion. >> governor walz: that's not true. >> senator vance: it's fundamentally barbaric. that's why i use that word. some of what we've seen. do you want to force catholic

hospitals to perform abortions against their will? kamala harris has supported suing catholic nuns to violate their freedom of conscience who we can be a big and diverse country and make the more -- make the country more pro-baby and pro-family. >> governor walz: this is a very simple proposition. these are women's decisions to make about their health care decisions. and the physicians who know best when they ned to do this. trying to distort the way a law is written to try to make a point, that's not it. >> senator vance: what was i wrong about? >> governor walz: it's not the way the law is written. i have given this advice on a lot of things, getting involved, it's been misread and it's been fact-checked. there is a continuation of these guys to try to tell women where to get involved. i use this line, just mind your own business. things worked best when roe vs. wade was in place.

it doesn't preclude us from increasing funding for children, making sure once the child is born like in minnesota, they get meals, early childhood education, they get health care. hiding behind we're going to do all these other things when you're not proposing them in your budget, kamala harris is proposing them, all those things to make life easier for fam families. >> senator vance: i asked you a specific question. you gave me a slogan. >> governor walz: it's not true. that's not what the law says. >> norah: there's a lot to discuss and we have to move on and we are going to be back with more of the cbs news vice presidential debate just a moment.

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>> norah: welcome back to the cbs news vice presidential debate. we want to turn now to america's gun violence epidemic. the leading cause of death for children and teens is by firearms. senator vance, you oppose most gun legislation democrats claim would curb gun violence. you oppose red flag gun laws and legislation to ban certain semiautomatic rifles. me ask, earlier this year for the first time the parents of a school shooter were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to ten years in prison. do you think holding parents responsible could curb mass shootings question mike i will give you 2 minutes. >> senator vance: on that particular case i don't know the full details but i trust local authorities to make the dec decision. in some cases the answer is yes in some cases know. if a kid steals a gun it's different than if a parent hands

over a gun knowing their kid is potentially dangerous. i want to speak as a father of three beautiful little kids. our oldest is in second grade. like a lot of parents we send our kids to school with such hope in such joy in such pride at their little faces on the first day of school. we know unfortunately that a lot of kids are going to experience this terrible epidemic of gun violence. our hearts go out to the families affected by this terrible stuff and we do have to do better. i think governor walz and i probably agree that we need to do better on this. the question is how do we actually do it. here's something that bothers me, worries me about this epidemic of violence. the gross majority, close to 90% of the gun violence in this country is committed with illegally obtained firearms. we know that thanks to kamala harris' open border was seen a massive influx the number of illegal guns run by the mexican drug cartel.

the amount of illegal guns is higher than three and a half years ago. what do we do about the schools? what we do to protect our kids? i say this not loving the answer because i don't want my kids to go to school in a school that feels unsafe or where there are visible signs of security but we have to increase security in our schools. we have to make the doors lock better, make the doors stronger. if got to make the window stronger and of course we've got to increase school resources. the idea that we can magically wave a wand and take guns out of the hands of bad guys, he just doesn't fit with recent experience. got to make our school safer and i think we've got to have some common sense bipartisan solutions. >> norah: governor, you have 2 . >> governor walz: all the parents watching, this is your biggest nightmare. i've got a 17-year-old and he witnessed a shooting in a community center playing volleyball. those things don't leave you. as a member of congress i sat my office surrounded by dozens of

parents and they were looking at my 7-year-old picture on the wall. there are 7-year-olds dead. they were asking us to do something. i am a hunter. i own firearms. the vice president's. we understand the second amendment is there but our first responsibility is to our kids to figure this out. in minnesota we enacted enhanced red flag laws and background checks. here's the problem, if we want to solve this we've got folks that won't allow research to be done on gun vioence. this idea that we should live with it. here's what i do think. this is a good start to the conversation. i 100% believe senator vance hates it -- it's abhorrent and it breaks your heart. i agree. it's not far enough when we know there are things that work. i've spent time in finland and seen schools, they don't have this happen. even though they have a high gun

ownership rate in the country. there are reasonable things we can do to make a difference. it's not infringing on your second amendment. the idea to have some of these weapons out there just doesn't make any sense. kamala harris as an attorney general worked on this issue. they know -- she knows it's there. no one is trying to scaremongering say that we are taking our guns but i ask you, do you want your schools hardened to look like a fort? when we know there's countries around the world their children aren't practicing these types of drills. they are being kids. we owe it to them to get a fix. these are things that shouldn't be that difficult. you can still keep your firearms and we can make a difference. we have to. if you're listening to men this breaks your heart. >> senator vance: i didn't know that your 17-year-old witnessed a shooting and i'm sorry about that. i want to say christ have mercy. it is awful. i appreciate what tim said about finland because i think it illustrates some of the frankly

weird differences between our own countries gun violence problem and finland. we have way higher rates of mental health abuse -- or mental health substance ab abuse. way higher rates of depression, way higher rates of anxiety. we unfortunately have a mental health crisis in this country that i really do think we need to give -- get to the root causes of. i don't think it's the whole reason why we have such a bad gun violence problem but it's a big piece of it. another driver of the epidemic, he doesn't turn his many headlines but it's the terrible gun violence problem and a lot of our big cities. this is why we have to empower law enforcement to arrest the bad guys, put them away and take gun offenders off the streets. a whole host of things we can do but i do think in our schools we've got to talk about more security. >> norah: thank you. governor, you previously opposed an assault weapons ban but later did you change her position. >> governor walz: i sat in

that office with the sandy hook parents. i was an nra guy for a long time for the use to teach gun safety. i will come of an age where my shotgun was in my car so i could pheasant hunt after football practice. that's not where we are today. talking about cities, the number one where the most firearm deaths happen immense on our rural suicides. we have hidden epidemic of children getting guns and shooting themselves. it we have and we should look at all the issues. making sure folks have health care but i want to make sure, this idea of stigmatizing mental health. just because you have a mental health issue doesn't mean you're violent and i think we start looking for a scapegoat. sometimes it just is the guns. it's just the guns. there are things you can do about it. i think this is a healthy conversation. i think there's a capacity to find solutions on this that work, protect the second amendment, protect our

children. that's our priority. >> norah: thank you. >> margaret: let's turn to the top contributor of inflation, the high cost of housing andsind there is a shortage of more than 4 million homes in the united states and that contributes to the high housing prices. governor walls, the harris campaign governor walz, the trick with a promise to build 3 million new homes. where are you building these homes and won't handing out that kind of money drive up prices higher? >> governor walz: first let me say this, the issue of housing and those of you listening, the problem we've had is we've got a lot o folks that see housing is another commodity. it can be bought up, shifted, moved around. those are not folks living in those houses is for those of listening tonight, that is a big deal. i bought and owned one house in my life and my mom still lives in the house where i was.

when i think of a house, and thinking of christmas services after midnight mass where you go with your family. we need to make it more affordable. this program the vice president is pushing forward in bringing a new way of approaching this is something we are doing in minnesota. we invested in making sure our housing was the biggest investment we'd ever made in housing. it starts to make it easier to be cut some red tape. we can't do it at the federal level but local folks make it easier to build those homes. down payment assistance. i can tell you certainly for me, using the g.i. bill was one thing. but a veterans home loan, the big thing about a veterans home loan is you don't have to pay the down payment. those are things that make a difference. you're going to pay it back and you're going to pay your mortgage. those are things that we know in the long run, the appreciated value that generates from the wealth created from it. i will give minneapolis as an example. minneapolis is the one sitting where we've seen the lowest

inflation rates. seen a 12% increase in stock because we put some of these things and then we are lamenting a state program to make sure we give some of that down payment assistance. we get it back from people because here's what we know. people with stable housing and up with stable jobs. people with stable housing have their kids able to be able to get to school. all those things in the long run end up saving money and that's the thing i think we should be able to find some common ground in but we can't blame immigrants for the only reason for that's not the case that's happening in many cities. the fact of the matter is we don't have enough naturally affordable housing but we can make sure the government is there to help kick-start it, create that base. >> margaret: governor, your time is up. senator vance, as far as your campaign's position, the promise is to seize federal lands to build homes, remove regulation, provide tax breaks and cut back on immigration what you say pushes prices. where are you going to build all

the new homes are promising and what part of any of the plan will provide immediate relief? >> senator vance: tim said something i agree with. we don't want to blame immigrants for higher prices but we want to blame kamala harris for letting millions of immigrants in the country. 25 million illegal aliens competing with americans for scarce homes is one of the most significant drivers of home prices in the country. it's why we have massive increases in home prices that have happened right alongside massive increases in illegal alien populations under kamala harris' leadership. tim mentioned a bunch of ideas. some ideas i think a halfway decent and some ideas agree with but the most important thing here is kamala harris is not running as a newcomer to politics. she is the sitting vice president. if she wants to enact all of these policies to make housing more affordable, i invite her to use the office that the american

people already gave her, not sit around and campaign and do nothing while americans find the american dream of homeownership completely unaffordable. you asked, margaret, would immediately change the equation? if you lower energy prices, as donald trump says, drill, baby, drill. one of the biggest -- if a truck driver is paying more for diesel than the lumber he's delivering is also becoming more expensive. if we open up american energy you will get immediate pricing relief for american citizens not just in housing but a whole host of economic goods. >> margaret: senator vance, you still have 23 seconds. >> governor walz: can i have it? >> margaret: governor, we will get to it in a moment. senator, where you going to see is a federal lands? >> senator vance: donald trump has said we have federal lands not be used for anything.

they could be places where we build a lot of housing. i do think we should be opening a building in this country. we have lot of land that could be used. we have a lot of americans that need homes. we should be kicking out illegal immigrants were competed for those homes and we should be building more homes for the american citizens who deserved to be here. >> margaret: senator, your time is up. governor, i want to let you respond to the allegation the vice president is letting in migrants. >> governor walz: of course it's not true. i guess we agreed not to affect ticket. i'll fact-checking. crossings are down. but it's blaming and not trying to find a solution. are we going to drill and build houses on the same federal land? people here federal lands, these are important pieces of land. minnesota doesn't have a lot of federal lands. in the western part of the country we do. there's not a lot of federal lands in and around minneapolis for examples of the issue is, i don't understand the federal lands issue and thus we see this i worry about this as someone

who cares deeply about our national parks and federal lands. minnesota, who protect these things pretty move got about 20% of the world's freshwater. these lands protect. they are there for a reason and belong to all of us. this is when you view housing and view these things as commodities. there's a chance to make money here. let's take this federal land and sell it to people. there's better ways to do this. we've seen it in minnesota were able to refurbish houses, make investments. that gets people in. senator vance, you said you don't like the economists. which economists are saying that it's immigrants adding? >> margaret: governor, your time is out. senator, on that point, i would like for you to clarify. there are many contribute in factors to high housing costs. what evidence do you have that migrants are part of this problem? >> senator vance: there is a federal reserve study we are happy to share. we will put it up on social media that drills down on the connection between increased

levels of migration especially illegal immigration, and higher housing pricing. that's not the entire driver. it's the regulatory regime of kamala harris premier -- we are a country of builders and explorers. we have a administration that makes it harder to develop resources, makes it harder to build things and wants to throw people in jail for not doing everything exactly as kamala harris says they have to do. what that means is you have a lot of people who would love to build homes who aren't able to build homes. i agree with tim walz. we should get out of this idea of housing as a commodity. the same thing -- the thing that's turned it into a commodity is giving it away to millions upon millions of people have no right to be here. >> governor walz: what are the federal regulations? >> margaret: you can quickly reply. >> margaret: i get this --

>> governor walz: many are local, many are state. i don't know which ones are federal but when we talk regulations people think they can get rid of them. you want to be able to get out of your house in a fire. you want to make sure it's fireproof in those types of things. which are the regulations? the vice president is not responsible. congress writes those. >> margaret: governor, thank you. gentlemen purely have a lot to get to. your passionate about the housing crisis, i can tell. >> norah: one of the top problems is the high cost of health care. senator vance, at the presidential debate former president trump was asked about replacing the affordable care act. in response, he said "i have concepts of a plan." since then, senator, you've talked about changing how chronically ill americans get health insurance. can you explain how that would work? can you guarantee that americans with pre-existing conditions will pay more? i will give you 2 minutes. >> senator vance: we are going

to cover americans with pre-existing conditions. a lot of my family members have gotten health care. members of my family got private health insurance for the first time, switched off medicaid onto private insurance for the first time under donald trump's leadership. a lot of people have criticized this concept of a plan remark. it's simple common sense. as tim walz knows from 12 years in congress, you're not going to propose a 900 page bill standing on a debate stage. it would bore people to tears and it's not going to mean anything. part of it is the give-and-take of negotiation. when donald trump was present, he has a record to be proud of. prescription drugs fell in 2018 for the first time in a very long time. under kamala harris' leadership prescription drugs are up 7%. under donald trump's entire four years they were up about 1.5%. he introduced pricing transparency. think about health care. you go into health care and try to buy something and nobody knows what it actually costs. the price transparency will give

american consumers a little bit more choice and also drive down costs. we talked about the reinsurance regulations is what i was talking about. donald trump has said if we allow states to experiment a little bit on how to cover the chronically ill but the nonchronically ill, it's not just a plan. he actually implemented some of these regulations when he was president of the united states. i think he can make a good argument that it salvaged obamacare which was doing disastrously until donald trump came along. it's an important part about president trump or do not have to agree with everything president trump has ever said or done but when obamacare was crushing under the weight of its own regulatory burden in health care costs, donald trump could have destroyed the program. instead he worked in a bipartisan way to ensure that americans have access to to affordable c it's not perfect of course and there is so much more than we could do. i think donald trump has earned the right to put in place some better health care policies. he has earned it because he did

it successfully the first time. >> norah: governor. >> governor walz: here is where being an old guy gives you some history. i was there at the creation of the aca. the reason it was so important is i come from major health care estate, home of the mayo clinic, home to medical alley, 3m, medtronic. we understand health care. it's why we are ranked first on affordability and accessibility and quality of health care. what i know is under kamala harris, more people are covered than they have before. those of you listening, this is critical to you. donald trump all of a sudden wants to go back and remember this pretty he ran, the first thing he was going to do on day one was to repeal obamacare. on day one, he tried to sign an executive order to repeal the aca. he signed on to a lawsuit to repeal the aca but lost it at the supreme court and he would've repealed the ac had it not been for the courage of john mccain to save that bill.

fast forward, what that means to you is you lose your pre-existing conditions. if you are at home when you have asthma, too bad. broke your foot during football, might kick you out. , harris negotiated dura braces with medicare. pretend drugs they will come online, tube -- what donald trump said i've got a concept of a play on it cracked me up because my kids would have never given that. what senator vance explained might be worse than a concept because what he explained was preobamacare. i will make this as simple as possible. what they are saying is if you are healthy and why should you be paying more? so what they're going to do is let insurance companies pick who they insure. you pay your premium, they figure they're not going to have to pay out to you but those of you that are a little older, gray, got cancer, you're going

to get kicked out of it. that's why the system didn't work. kamala harris will protect and enhance the aca. >> norah: governor, thank you. senator, you've not explain how you would protect people with pre-existing conditions are laid out the plan. >> senator vance: we have laws and regulations in place that protect people with pre-existing conditions. we want to keep those regulations in place but we want to make the health insurance marketplace function better. what governor walz said is not true. a lot of what happened and the reason obamacare was crushing under its own weight is that a lot of young and healthy people were leaving the exchanges. donald trump actually helped address that problem and he did so in a way that preserve people's access to coverage who had pre-existing conditions but again, something these guys do is they make a lot of claims about if donald trump becomes president all of these terrible consequences are going to ensue. in reality, donald trump was president. inflation was low. take-home pay was higher and he

saved the very program from a democratic administration that was collapsing and would have collapsed absent his leadership. he did his job which is governed. in a bipartisan way. get results, not just complain about problems but solve them. >> norah: governor, did enrollment under affordable care act go up under the trump administration? >> governor walz: it's higher now. people are using it, the system works. young people, that's the individual mandate piece of this and republicans fought saying that americans should be free to do that. >> senator vance: so you think the individual mandate is a good idea? >> governor walz: making sure the risk pool is broad enough to cover it, that's the only way insurance works. you are asking preaca will be get people out. people know they need to be on health care. people expected to be there and when we are able to make it and we are making it this way, we incentivize people to be in the market, we help people who might not be able to afford it get

there and we make sure when you get sick and old it's there for you. i heard people say i don't want to buy into medicare or whatever. good luck buying health care once you get past 70. the aca works. we can do better. kamala harris did that. the way she made everything better was negotiating those ten drugs on medicare for the first time in american history. >> norah: thank you. we are out of time. a number of subjects to discuss. >> margaret: let's talk about families in america. there is a child care crisis in this country and the united states is one of the very few developed countries in the world without a national paid leave program for new parents. governor walz, you have said that if democrats win both the white house and congress, this is a day one priority for you. how long should employers be required to pay workers while they are home taking care of their newborns? you have 2 minutes. >> governor walz: yeah, well,

that's negotiable. here's what the deal is. americans out there right now, you may work for a big company. we are home in minnesota to him with some of the largest fortune 500 companies. kamala harris knows that. those companies provide paid family medical leave. it's moral and it's a good thing and it keeps their employees healthy. we passed a paid family medical leave. i had to go to work five days after my kids were born. this allows you to stay home a certain amount of time. i guess the child off to a better start in the family works better. we get more consistency. kamala harris has made it a priority. we implemented it in minnesota and we see growth. that's how you become a pro-business state. those big companies are able to offer it. those of you out there who don't have it, just imagine what happens if you get cancer or your child gets sick. we know what happens. you end up staying home. in some cases that means no

paycheck. you've got no protection. this is the case of an economy that donald trump has said for the wealthiest amongst us. he's willing to give those tax breaks to the wealthiest. willing to say bust those unions up, do whatever. what we are saying is the economy works best when it works for all of us. paid family medical leave program and i will tell you, go to the families, go to the businesses and ask them. as far as child care, you have to look at the supply and demand side. you can expect the most important people in our lives to take care of our children or parents to get paid the least amount of money. we have to make sure -- make it easier for folks to get in the business and make sure folks are able to pay for it. we were able to do it in minnesota and i'm still telling you this. we were listed as the best state. we are still in crisis on this. a federal program of paid family medical leave and help will enhance our workforce and families and make it easier to have the children you want.

>> margaret: governor colyer time is out. senator, do you support a national paid leave program? if so, for how long should employers be mandated to pay their employees while they are home taking care of their newborn? you have 2 minutes. >> senator vance: a number of my republican colleagues and some democrats have worked on this issue. i think there is a bipartisan solution. a lot of us care about this issue. i speak from this very personally because i am married to a beautiful woman who is an incredible mother to our three beautiful kids but is also a very, very brilliant corporate litigator and i am so proud of her. being a working mom, even with somebody with all the advantages of my wife, it's extraordinarily difficult. not just from a policy perspective. she had access to paid family leave. the cultural pressure on young families and especially young women i think makes it really hard for people to choose the family model they want. a lot of young women would like to go back to work immediately. some would like to spend time

with the kids. someone like to spend longer at home with the kids. we should have a family care model that makes choice possible. i think this is a very important substantive difference between donald trump and kamala harris' approach. if you look at the federal programs that we have that support paid family leave right now, community development block grants, another block grant program. these programs only go the one kind of child care model. let's say you like your church maybeto help you out with child care. mybe you live in a rural area or urban area and invite to get together with families in your neighborhood to provide child care in the way that makes the most sense. you don't get to any of this federal money. we want to promote choice and how we deliver family care and how we promote child care because look, it's unacceptable. of course tim and i have been on the campaign trail a lot and one of the biggest complaints i hear from young families is people who feel like they don't have options, like they are choosing between going to work or taking

care of their kids. that's an incredible burden to put on american families where the only country that doesn't prove we can do a heck of a lot better. speak to senator, thank you. you have also said, senator vance, many things about the american family. the federal reserve says parents will spend nearly as much on child care as they do on hou housing. i want to get your thoughts. president trump recently said "as much as child care a start about as being expensive, it's relatively speaking not very expensive compared to the kinds of numbers we'll be taking in." is president trump committed to the $5,000 per child tax credit that you have described? you have one minute. >> senator vance: what president trump said, i want to defend my running mate a little bit, we are going to be taking a lot of money by penalizing companies for shipping jobs overseas and penalizing countries who employ slave laborers and ship their

products back into our country and undercut the wages of american workers. it's the heart of the donald trump economic plan. cut taxes for american workers and american families. cut taxes for businesses hiring and building companies in the united states of america but penalize companies and countries that are shipping jobs overseas. that's the heart of the economic proposal. what president trump is saying is we bring this additional revenue with higher economic growth, we are going to be able to provide paid family leave, child care options that are viable and workable for a lot of american families. >> margaret: can you clarify how that will solve the child care shortage? >> senator vance: well, because, as tim said, a lot of the child care shortages, we don't have enough resources going into the multiple people who couldn't be providing care options. we are going to have to spend more money. we're going to have to induce more people to want to provide child care options for american families. the reason it's so extensive right now is because you've got way too few people providing

this essential service. >> margaret: thank you, senator. governor walz, your ticket also has some child care tax credit proposals. do you think congress will agree to the $6,000 credit for newborns and $3,000 credit for children over the age of six as your campaign has promised? is that realistic? >> governor walz: if these members of congress are listening, i can tell you, this is the biggest issue. everybody listening tonight knows, i'm sure they were shocked to hear it's not that extensive. let's be clear. whether it's 5,000 or 6,000, that's three or four months. let's be clear where we are at on this pair because we got out of an imbalance. we thought we were going to get by by not pain people. i don't think senator vance and i are that far apart. i think we need to be open to make the case. you not going to pay for it with tariffs. that's adding another 4,000 on and taking less. not only do they not get the

money to pay for, therefore thousand dollars in the hole. that's boarding school, his alma mater. the issue is those members of congress, i can't believe -- when i go to businesses they will talk about taxes sometimes but they will lead with child care and they will lead with housing. we know the problems especially in a state like minnesota we need more workers because our economy is growing but we need the workforce. >> margaret: governor, thank you. >> norah: let's talk about the state of democracy. the top issue for americans after the economy and inflation. after the 2020 election president trump campaign and others filed 62 lawsuits contesting the results. judges, including those appointed by president trump and other republican presidents, looked at the evidence and said there was no widespread fraud. the governors of every state in the nation, republicans and democrats, certified the 2020 election results and sent a legal slate of electors to

congress for january 6. senator vance, you've said you would not of certified the last presidential election would've asked the states to submit alternative electors. that has been called unconstitutional and illegal. would you again seek to challenge this year's election results even if every governor certifies the result? i will give you 2 minutes. >> senator vance: first of all, we need to figure out how to solve the inflation crisis caused by, harrises policies, make housing and groceries affordable. i want to answer your question. president trump has said there were problems in 2020 and my belief is we should fight about those issues, debate those issues peacefully in the public square. that's all i've said and that's all donald trump said. he said on january the 6 protesters ought to protest peacefully. on generate 20th, what happened? joe biden became the president

and donald trump left the white house and now unfortunately we have all the negative policies that have come from the harris biden administration. i believe we do have a threat to democracy in this country. unfortunately it's not the threat to democracy that kamala harris and tim walz want to talk about. it's threat of censorship. it's america's casting aside lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics. it's big technology companies silencing their fellow citizens. it's, harassing rather than debate and persuade her fellow americans who would like to censor people who engage in misinformation. that's a bigger threat to democracy than anything we've seen in the last four years or 40 years. i am proud especially given that i was raised by two lifelong blue-collar democrats to have the endorsement of bobby kennedy jr. and tulsi gabbard. lifelong leaders in the democratic coalition. they don't agree with me and donald trump on every issue. we don't have to agree. we are united behind a basic

american first amendment transphobia us to debate our differences fairly often argue about them and persuade our fellow americans, harrises engaged in censorship and an industrial scale. she has done it over a number of issues. that's a bigger threat to democracy than what donald trump said when he said protesters should peacefully protest. >> governor walz: i have enjoyed tonight's debate and there was commonality and i am sympathetic to misspeaking on things and i think might have with the senator. there is one, this one is troubling and i say that because i think we need to tell the story. donald trump refused to acknowledge this. i don't think we can be the frog in the pot and let the boiling water go up. he was clear he lost this election and he said he didn't. 140 police officers were beaten at the capitol that day. in minnesota a grou gathered on

the state capitol grounds in ste marching to the governor's residence and there may be casualties. the only person there was my son and his dog who was rushed out crying by state police. that issue and mike pence standing there as they were chanting "hang mike pence," mike pence made the right decision. i've worked with kids long enough to know. democracy is bigger than winning an election. you shake hands and try to do everything you can to help the other side win. that's what was at stake. the thing i'm most concerned about is the idea that imprisoning your political opponents, already laying the groundwork for people not accepting this. a presidents words matter. a president's words matter. people hear that. i think this issue of settling our differences at the ballot box, shakin hands when we lose,

being honest about it. to deny what happened on januarn american history that a president or anyone trying to overturn a fair election and the peaceful transfer of power. here we are in the same boat. i will tell you this. when this is over we need to shake hands, this election, and the winner needs to be the winner. this has got to stop. it's tearing our country apart. >> norah: margaret. >> margaret: senator vance, did you want to respond? >> senator vance: look, tim, first of all, it's really rich for democratic leaders to say that donald trump is a unique threat to democracy when he peacefully gave over power on january 20th as we have done for 250 years in this country. we are going to shake hands after this debate and after this election. i hope we will win i think we are going to end but if tim walz is the next vice president, he will have my prayers, my best wishes on my help he wants it.

we have to remember democrats protested the results of elections. hillary clinton said donald trump have the election stolen by vladimir putin because the russians bought $500,000 with the facebook ads. this has been going on for a long time. if we want to say we need to respect the result of the election, i am on board. if we want to say as tim walz in saying that this is just a problem republicans have had, i don't buy that. >> governor walz: january 6 was not facebook ads. i don't understand how we got to this point but the issue was that happened. donald trump. all of us say there's no place for this. it has massive repercussions. this idea there is censorship to stop people from doing -- threatening to kill someone, that's not censorship. censorship is book banning. we have seen that. with seen that brought up. i think for everyone tonight and

i'm going to thank senator vance, i think this is the conversation they wanted to hear. i think there's a lot of agreement. this is one that we are miles apart on. this was a threat to our democracy in a way that we had not seen. it manifested itself because of donald trump's inability to say, he is still saying he didn't lose the election. i would ask him that, did he lose the 2020 election? >> senator vance: i am focused on the future. did kamala harris censor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation? >> governor walz: it is a damning nonanswer. >> senator vance: it's a damming on answer for you to not talk about censorship. you guys attack us for not believing in democracy, the most sacred right under the united states democracy is the first amendment. you yourself has said there's no first amendment right to misinformation. kamala harris -- wants to use the power of government and big tech to

silence people from speaking their minds. that's a threat to democracy there will long outlive this present moment. i would like democrats and republicans to reject censorship. that's persuade and argue about ideas and come together. >> governor walz: you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. that's a supreme court test. >> senator vance: you wanted to kick people off of facebook for saying toddlers -- >> margaret: the governor does have the floor. >> senator vance: criticizing the policies of the government which is the right of every american. >> margaret: senator, the governor does have the floor for one minute to respond. >> governor walz: i don't run facebook. but i do know is i see a candidate who refused and now again and i'm pretty shocked by this. he lost the election. this is not a debate. it's not anything anywhere other than in donald trump's world. look, when mike pence made that decision to certify the election, that's why mike pence

isn't on this stage. what i'm concerned about is, where is the firewall with donald trump? where is the firewall if he knows he could do anything, including taking an election and his vice president is not going to stand up to it. that's what we are asking you, america. will you stand up? your oath of office. even if the president doesn't. i think kamala harris would agree she wouldn't have picked me up xi jinping i would do that because of course that's what we would do. america, you've got a really clear choice. of who's going to honor democracy and who's going to honor donald trump. >> margaret: governor, your time is up. thank you, gentlemen. we will be right back with both of our candidates. cbs news vice presidential debate continues.

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♪ ♪ >> norah: welcome back to the cbs news vice presidential debate. it's time for the closing statements. senator vance won the virtual coin toss and elected to galasso governor walz, you are first. you have 2 minutes. >> governor walz: thank you, senator vance, thank you to cbs news and most importantly most importantly -- thank you to all of you. the folks that are still up and miss "dancing with the stars," i appreciated. it matters that you're here. i'm as surprised as anybody of this coalition, harris has built from bernie sanders to dick cheney to taylor swift and a whole bunch of folks in between and they don't all agree on everything that they are optimistic people. they believe in a positive future of this country and one where our politics can be better than it is. i have to tell you.

that "better than it is" the sense of optimism that could be an opportunity economy that works for everyone, not just to get by but to get ahead. the idea that freedom means something. not that freedom of government to be in your bedroom or exam room but the freedom to make choices for yourself. we know who donald trump's. he has told us. as maya angelou said, believe him. senator vance tonight made it clear he will stand with donald trump's agenda and continued to push down that road. kamala harris gives us a different option. i have to tell you i'm going to be careful about the quotes but there is one senator vance said that does resonate with me. he said donald trump makes the people i care about afraid. a lot of america feels that way. we don't need to be afraid. franklin roosevelt was right.

all's we have to fear is fear itself. kamala harris is bringing us a new way forward, politics of joy on real solutions for the middle class and she is centering you at the heart of that, all the while asking everyone, join this movement. make your voices heard. let's look for a new day where everybody gets that opportunity and everybody gets a chance to thrive. i humbly ask for your vote on november 5th for kamala harris. >> margaret: governor walz, thank you. senator vance, your closing statement. >> senator vance: i want to thank governor walz, you folks at cbs and the american people for tuning in. one of the issues we didn't talk about was energy at a higher member when i was being raised by my grandmother when she didn't have enough money to turn on the heat and some nights because ohio gets pretty cold at night and because money was often very tight. i believe is a person who wants to be your next vice president that we are a rich and prosperous enough country where every american whether they are rich or poor ought to be able to turn on their heat in the middle of a cold winter night.

that's got more difficult thanks to kamala harris' energy policies. i believe whether you are rich or poor you are to be able to afford a nice meal for your family. that's gotten harder because of kamala harris' policies. i believe that whether you are rich or poor you ought to be able to afford to buy a house. you want to be able to live in a safe neighborhood and you ought to not have your communities flooded with fentanyl and that has gotten harder because of kamala harris' policies. i've been in politics long enough to do what kamala harris does when she stands before the american people and says that on day one she's going to work on all these challenges i just listed. she's been the vice president for three and half years. day one was 1400 days ago. her policies have made these problems worse. i believe we have the most beautiful country in the world. i meet people in the campaign trail who can afford food but have the grace and generosity to ask me how i'm doing. i did tell me they are praying for my family. what that has taught me as we have the greatest country, most

beautiful country, most incredible people anywhere in the world. but they're not going to be able to achiev their full dreams with the broken leadership that we have in washington. they are not going to be able to live their american dream if we do the same thing we've been doing for the last three and a half years. we need change. we need a new direction. we need a president who has already done this one before and said it well. please vote for donald trump and whether you vote for me or you vote for tim walz, i am proud to be doing this and i am rooting for you. god bless. good night. >> margaret: senator vance. thank you. thank you both for participating in the only vice presidential debate of this election cycle. i am margaret brennan. >> norah: i am norah o'donnell. 35 days until election day. please get out and vote and for all of us here at cbs news, thank you and good night. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> john: the first and only vice presidential debate this election is now complete. it was a cordial debate, the kind people mostly say they want. the candidates are lingering on the stage. that's quite a difference from the presidential debate in which -- not even sure vice president harris and donald trump would shake hands. was it debate in which the line "i appreciate what tim said about finland" was one of the many ways senator vance agreed with governor. the governor agreed right back but that's the tone and the kind of review of this. i will pick out two issues. on the question of the top of the news today which is the middle east and the foreign policy surprises that hit any president. tim walz made the case donald trump's temperament is unfit for any kind of surprise,

cited the members of the trump administration who have attested to that. vice president -- excuse me. vance said there were no wars during the trump administration. on the economy, what vance did was something donald trump was incapable of doing during his presidential debate which was saying if kamala harris was going to do these things, why isn't she in office. tim walz mentioned the inflation reduction act in a variety of others, other items under biden but returning to that political point has worked in the past for donald trump against hillary clinton. j.d. vance on that stage was very different than what people may have seen in podcasts. there was a air of unreality about it. talked about bipartisan solution with the nuance of the kind we never saw during the trump administration. almost as a defender of the affordable care act. donald trump tried to kill the affordable care act.

tim walz asked j.d. vance if donald trump lost the election and he was incapable of answering that. j.d. vance can only get so far from the man at the top of the ticket and that was on display in that moment. j.d. vance was a different kind of person we've seen. >> cecilia: what you're saying is so important we talk about demeanor. because of the expectation that was hanging over these candidates heads heading into tonight. j.d. vance came to the stage with the lowest likability rating of all four candidates at the top of the ticket. many people came in expecting him to be donald trump's attack dog tonight. that's not the side we saw from him. there were a couple compassionate moments. you mentioned the cordiality, we saw that very much. it's worth pointing out the demeanor from governor walz when he came to his moments when he was put on the defensive about his own biography and embellishments that he's made in the past particularly in this case on china.

you and i have talked about this a lot. major, you're going to help us with fact checks over the course the next few minutes but there's a big one we need to talk about which came on immigration and the discussion tonight. the trump administration's plan, major centerpiece of their campaign to undergo mass deportations for undocumented immigrants in this country. j.d. vance particularly said migrants will be granted legal status at the wave of a kamala harris open border want. this was in a conversation about haitian migrants in springville ohio. many of them are recipients of temporary legal status and they are in this country legally. >> john: we will be back in a moment with more coverage of the vice presidential debate we will fact-check some of the claims made by both candidates. (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships

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♪ ♪ >> cecilia: we are going to bring in our amazing political team. major, i want to start with you. >> major: i would call this the warren g. harding memorial vice presidential debate. return to normalcy, that's what this debate was. more substantive on the facts and policy than the presidential nominees have been. it was a way embrace of bipartisanship on tough issues: gun violence, health care, child care. even, less true, on reproductive rights. one thing i think will be a surprise to anyone on the republican party, the biggest secret of the entire trump administration is that he saved obamacare. it's a big secret because he never even said that. this debate was an example of how you can disagree agreeably, talk about shared goals for the country. in that sense it's externally important for j.d. vance that he did not sound as he sounds on

the stump. it was his biography in his appeal to bipartisanship that will be most establishing about not only has present but possible future.% >> john: nancy, your thoughts. >> if you took a shot every time you heard the words "i agree" you would be under the table. a surprisingly affable debate for two men who we know from our reporting do not like each other. they said they agreed on housing policy. they said they agreed on some aspects of immigration policy, pro-family policy. they were clearly intent on showing that they are likable, they are agreeable for all the reasons cecilia laid out earlier. the democrats that i'm talking to feel fine about the debate. they are not doing cartwheels the way they were after the harrison trump debate a few weeks ago. but they think this went well and i predict that exchange between vance and walz about

whether donald trump lost the election is going to be in a harris ad. >> they came as favorites of the base and their respective parties. governor walz went on television and called republicans where. senator j.d. vance gone podcasts with donald trump jr. and other favorites of the right and say the left was essentially weird. tonight onstage you didn't hear a lot about that. you heard an approach, our colleagues reporting and analysis, it was about appealing to the middle paired for j.d. vance, giving reassurance to traditional republicans, conservatives, that they have a place in this republican party even with fomer president trump. they might not like those traditional republicans but they might like his answer on the economy and border security. for governor walz it wasn't about being an attack dog. trying to make an overture to the centrist voter in a battleground state and say hey, with vice president harris is a teacher and a coach. >> cecilia: one of the big issues with immigration.

they had to shut the mic saw. >> disability that we saw tonight may be a mistake by democrats quite frankly. i talked at the outset move energizing the base. i was in ohio and many democrats were livid about what's going on in springfield. it's a missed opportunity to really push the racial insensitivity. there was a sense of trying to be affable, as john said. i think what we are going to see from this point on is civility being laid aside. as we have said from this point on, the gloves are off. >> john: major, you've spent a lot of time thinking about donald trump yet how might he react? >> what donald trump will take a ways the first third of the debate were j.d. vance made a very strong case that the trump record, was the world on fire, yes or no? it wasn't. was the economy better? it was. trump will be happy with that and ignore and forget the bipartisan appeals because they

don't fit with his orientation of policy. >> john: coverage will continue with instant reaction poles in fact checks on cbs news 24/7. for now, for my colleagues here, good night. ♪ ♪ the city hall insiders spend record high budgets.

but our problems get worse. they say this is the best that we can do. they blame the system, but they built the system. i have a plan to change it. with accountability and rooting out corruption, we can tackle our housing and drug crisis, clear the tent encampments and bring our businesses back. are you ready to stop settling and start demanding more? join me in changing city hall. >juliette>and good evening and welcome to this special post-debate newscast. you just watched democrat tim walz and republican jd vance. well, they appealed to voters tonight and did their best chance in it in the first and only vice presidential debate hosted by cbs news. so this next half hour, we look at some of the big issues