good morning and behalf of the archdiocese of san francisco, welcome to mosaic. the topic is music, sound , ordered progression of sound from a single pure voice or instrument up to a complex orchestra or massive opera with tones and harmonies and vibrations and rhythms that pull you in fill you up or take you places that suggest wonders. is there more powerful or more captivating than music? today, we will talk about sacred music in the catholic tradition. we are not talking about the history of catholic music or music of the past, our guest is in much honored composer who is writing a new mass for the archdiocese of san francisco. it will premiere here in december. after this brief break, please be join us and we will talk with frank

about the path of beauty and music is a path to god .

welcome to mosaic. my guest is frank larocca, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for asking me.

>> i know you are from new jersey and you been here for 30 or 40 years. >> moved here in 1974 when i came here to do my graduate work. >> you went to yale and got an undergraduate degree in music. composition studies at berkeley as a student. you were a teacher of music, -- >> music and composition. >> i think you have retired from that. >> i started in 1981 and hung up my cleats and 2014. >> you are a well-known composer much awarded and many prizes. what we want to get two is a work you're doing for the archdiocese of san francisco. my understanding is you are setting a mass. you also write sacred music. why the interest in sacred music? why turning to that? >> the interest came to me relatively late in the total span of my career as a

composer. i have been writing music broadly understood as in a classical style since 1971. but, until a significant moment in my life in the late '90s, i think a kind of religious conversion experience , i had no interest at all in sacred music. >> okay. >> but, i became convinced that in order to live a life that was well ordered where what i did for work and what i believed in terms of religious commit needed to not be in

conflict with one another. or occupy world's that were too far apart. the other thing that while i was raised catholic as a boy , i drifted away for quite a number of years. when i had this conversion experience in them mid-'90s, it was a powerful disruption to my entire worldview. as it began to be reconstituted through learning what christianity was, with the mind of an adult and not the mind of a child, i began to realize that this needs to be at the center of my life's lifework. it's what i spend my time doing . i was enormously grateful even though it was painful and disruptive,

i was enormously grateful for this experience that i had. i was, at the same time, given a kind of understanding, i guess you would say, that i had to do penance for the sin i had indulged in all those years i was away from any religious practice. and, there is a great tradition in the psalms and other sacred texts, some 50, 51 and the protestant numbering. i'm not sure. i always get those mixed up. create in me a clean heart, o, guide and renew his spirit deep within me. when i read words like that while studying scripture or otherwise engaged in religious reading, i would be stirred to my very

core. if what an artist, in my case, and artist feeds off of his inspiration, that's where i was finding it. >> yeah. you mentioned penance. that's an interesting concept. your penance appears to be self-imposed are called into vocation by god to write music. >> i don't consider the writing of the music to be penance. >> let's clear that up. >> i consider my offering to god in my music that i write, has two included penitential component. penance not just in a punitive sense but penance in the sense of making sure that i never forget where i used to be and where i am now, and the fact god brought me here. is it says in that psalm, my sins are always before , i know they are

forgiven but they are in front of me and i want to keep them there. not in any morbid or self destructive way, but just as a way of turning neither to the right nor the left. and to give thanks to god for having rescued me out of the pit of muck and mire. >> your music now, sacred music you have been writing 10 years or so? >> a little longer. >> it is a goal of reaching god and/or honoring god. >> giving glory to god and staying in communion with god, but also particularly in music that will be heard in liturgical settings to serve as a portal of grace for people at mass. >> adore.

>> i mean, the technical term is sacramental , right? it is not a sacrament but the candles, the vestments, everything of beauty in the mass is a sacramental. it is a portal through which god offers us grace if only we cooperate with it , and that is what music should serve as in a liturgical setting is one of those portals of grace. >> that sounds good. we will take a brief break and we will talk further in detail and listen to some of your music. we will be back with more of frank la rocca and his music

hello, and welcome back. it's enjoyable to talk about music. a basic human creation and goes from the most elemental parts of our being to the highest complexities of mathematical relations. >> yes, it does. >> i'm glad you agree. we want to listen to his a couple pieces of your music. we have to disappoint you. these are each 5 to 7 minutes long. we will do a brief excerpt from each. we will listen and look and frank will tell us what's happening musically. clip one from frank la rocca . >> ♪

♪

♪ >> it's a piece of a psalm, grace is poured out. what is going on with this piece of music? >> this is a communion proper for the feast of blessed mother mary queen chip of the world, august 22. it was commissioned by me from the diocese of oakland for the 50th anniversary of the diocese , celebratory mass, which took place august 22. queen chip of mary. the text itself is rich with images of royalty, as you would expect for the queenship

of mary. fragrant garments, houses of ivory. and so, the approach i took in writing this was to make it sound sumptuous. to give it an air of gravity, but also an arrow flight to. >> you know, as an opening of a portal to god, so the patil opening and i'm sorry i couldn't finish that. >> you can watch the rest of it on youtube. >> frank la rocca's website has youtube links . let's look at the second clip.

>> ♪

♪

♪ >> we have to interrupt as they are laying the foundation for what comes next. frank, a minute and a half to talk about what is the meaning? >> this is a christmas text so with all those images, you can tell it's a text having to do with the nativity. more than

just the nativity, the richer theology of the incarnation. in the book of revelation, it talks about the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. those images at the beginning, and i'm the one who made the video accompaniment, look at the universe in formation. right? and then christ comes to earth and you see the image of earth. as the musical phrase, swells, what do you see? you see jesus in the manger. what time trying to convey is a kind of contradiction because the word that is being sung then is large . and yet, all the images are of this tiny baby. >> the great mystery is the tiny child. >> the great mystery is the

chinese child. >> we will take up brief break and be back with you to finish up talking with frank la rocca.

hello and welcome back to mosaic. i would like to call for a slide for this last segment, please, so we can see that. some basic information. this is frank la rocca. you can see his website, go to it and listen to the music and learn

about the man. very interesting. the other logo is the benedict xvi institute for sacred music and liturgy. it's an initiative of the archdiocese to bring beauty and splendor back to liturgical and sacred music. it is for this group that frank is the composer in residence and commissioned to write a mass. thank you for the slide. tell us about the mass of the americas will premiere here in the cathedral on december 8. >> it's an interesting project. it takes me into new territory as a composer. the inspiration is the feast day of our lady of guadalupe and the annual celebration surrounding that. this year it coincides with the immaculate conception so we will have both happening at the same time on that december 8 mass. what is interesting about it is the archbishops -- archbishop's mission and i've known him for

a number of years and he has talked about this of using music as a cultural bridge . that is what he asked me to try to do with this mass. trying to find a way to weave into the fabric of the music certain very popular devotional tunes associated with mexican/catholi c culture . [ singing in a global language ] -- when we talk about a model for this, we were both familiar with colonial days where the friars would use the popular songs of the day as a way to drive people to the church. musicians would stand aside and play the popular music, everyone would gather, and then they would try to see if they could get them to come into the church to attend mass as part of the

evangelization process. something similar happen with the music in the california missions. once they were inside the church, then it was the music of the spanish baroque weather from spain or spaniard composers who had moved to the new world. the archbishop's vision takes that one step further. he wants to get the popular music across the threshold and actually into the church. as a result, we have a mass that , hopefully, will reveal the unity of the immaculate conception, our lady of guadalupe, patroness of the wider american continent by having high church music such as i typically write, but woven out of pieces of these popular

tunes . >> i am coming to this thing. >> it will be interesting. and the instrumentation supports that. we have a choir and string quartet and guitar in one song, that song, we have in the mass text , spanish, english, latin and for the communion meditation we have the aztec language. [ speaking in a global language ] . i proposed it because i knew it was the language that our lady of guadalupe addressed during her apparitions. >> and 15 -- >> somewhere around there. recently, it occurred to me that another thing it accomplishes , it's a bit of a strong image, but i think it's important, is the aztec priests who performed human sacrifice

on those stone altars also spoke this language. to bring this language into the sacrifice of the mass, the true victim, jesus christ, who died for our sins and who can remit them on our behalf. to me it's a beautiful image to redeem this false standing of the meaning of sacrifice with the true understanding of the meaning of sacrifice. >> that sound daring and good. >> i have a setting of what we know as the of a maria but it's in this language with a soprano violent, and organ. it's a south american instrument. >> the mass we premiered in the cathedral on december 8, i think you mentioned it will be done in texas next year? >> i am given to understand

that this past weekend , the archbishop was visiting in dallas and was a guest homilist at the dallas cathedral and proposed to their bishop , bishop burns , that this mass of the americas be sung there next year for their feast of lady guadalupe. there cathedral is the cathedral of our lady of guadalupe and there are many throughout the greater southwest. >> thank you. frank, we have to close but i want to say thank you for being with us. come to mass and december 8 and it will be livestreamed from the cathedral and broadcast on awt and network. thank you for being with us and thank you for your work as a catholic apologist and music. thank you for being with us on mosaic .