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way or not. we have easter eggs, easter candies, baskets, bunnies, bonnets and easter parades. spring has sprung, the world is green, the season is bright. but of course, at the heart of easter is a deep and dark drama with a glorious ending. first is the condemnation and execution of jesus of nazareth and his resurrection from the dead. these are central christian teachings and have been so from the beginning. what are we to think of the resurrection? why do we believe in it? is it difficult to come to that belief? what is it like to live in that belief? here with us to discuss the resurrection is a scholar, teacher, and priest, father john becher. after this brief break, please rejoin father becher and me to delve more deeply into the

resurrection of christ.

hello and welcome to mosaic. with me today is father john becher. bottcher, i just learned how to pronounce it. you have a

fantastic resume. you have more abbreviations after your name than most people have. he is not only a scholar of the bible but a physicist and experimental scientist. so what seeing here is ba in physics from uc berkeley, from the school of theology, and an essenia of sacred teology from the university in rome and a doctorate of theology from the same institution. you began with a ba in physics in caland worked in the semi conductor industry in paolo alto and i think that was when you experienced a conversion to catholicism. can you tell us about that? >> it happened in the last year of the study of berkeley. i studied physics there with an idea of working with semi conductors and that sort of

thing. so i had statistics classes and so on with the interpretation of data. and i went hitchhiking and i had been raised catholic and then drifted off in high school. so six years later, i went out hitchhiking out of berkeley, like i did for recreation, just put up my thumb. and three people on that brief hitchhiking trip all talked to me about jesus christ. and i believe there is a god out there somewhere, maybe like the force, the budist, cosmic force. but i thought in my mind, this is statistically significant t. no one in six years and then in 24 hours, three. so i thought i better go back over this, there might be something in this for me. so i went back and actually read the bible and looked for

thisperson. the first person had talked about john the apostle and was talking about the apocalypse. so i started reading the gospel of john and it starts out with a poetic introduction, in the beginning there was the word and the word was god. and i thought this was like eastern poetry i had been reading about the cosmos. i got into the story and it drew me into the person of christ that i had never really encountered personally before, just to read it for my own inspiration. so that sunk in and after graduation, i came to conviction, this is a person unique in human history. >> so the relation with jesus and also the church, you went back to catholic liturgy at that point? >> after three or four months of reading the bible two or three times a day and praying, i felt god saying go back to church.

and i said which one? because i wasn't necessarily attached to the catholic church. but he brought me back to remember the last morning i left sacred heart parish in california. and i looked around and said i'm not experiencing god here, i'll be back when i do. and he said do you remember what you said? and so i said okay and went to the nearest church which was in berkeley. >> and it drew you back not only into practicing catholicism and reading the bible but into the priesthood. >> that was years down the road, ironically in the research lab in palo alto. when around 60 employees in our research department, and there were two bible studies weekly. apparently there had been a young man before he who had become a catholic priest. three of my

friends from there became full-time christian missionaries. it was a hot bed for christian calling and ministry. >> and these gentlemen are all out of the semi conductor research environment snow. >> yes. >> so you found your way into religion and priesthood. your priesthood seems to be scholarly and pastorally. what do you do? >> i work at the numen center in california. also working in teaching in seminary. i teach courses on the gospel of john and of course matthew, mark, luke. >> and the numen center is a catholic chaplain at a catholic university, sonoma state university. so you are acquainted with the ancient texts. you are acquainted with today's young people. and you

have some theological, literary, and scientific knowledge with which you are equipped. we have you here to talk about the resurrection. was the resurrection a key part of your interest, renewed interest in catholicism at the time? >> it became that. i would say before that was the passion, the passion of christ, the sufferings, the event of his dying, the way he went through that. there was a major impact when i was reading the passage of john, the way of his cross, john said, taking his own cross, he went out from there. i saw this view of christ, bloodied with a crown of thorns, carrying the cross and i looked on his face and i saw this serene, totally decisive face that, expression that he didn't care what was happening around him.

he wasn't t worried, upset, afraid or anything, he was just determined to get to the place. and i thought this was god at work. this is divine. no man could live like that and love like that and move forward to his own death. i just thought, this is god. it made that kind of impact. >> that is powerful. that was just the picture of the passion, death and suffering. so can we all experience is our death and he faced like a man, and as you said like a god it seems. and the next question after that is the resurrection. so after this break, please join us and we will talk about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth.

good morning and welcome

back. we are talking with father john bottcher about the resurrection of jesus christ, an a teaching that is central to the catholic faith and always has been from the very beginning of the writing of the catholic doctrines. i believe st. paul in his earlileter, letter to the corinthians said that t if jesus did not rise from the dead, our vath is in vain and it's a lie, it's not true. we need to believe that this is a historical fact that we jesus did rise from the dead. paul seemed to and what can you tell us about that? >> there are a number of angles to approach the question. one of them is the physical evidence that remains of the passion itself to show he did die and then the resurrection. so the fact that we have an empty tomb. we believe the body is in heaven, the body was risen and

made spiritual but actually corporal, touchable. but at the same time, on earth, we can't point towards a body in a sense of bones and what remains. in a sense, that is already evidence. we have some piece of their bodies of the saints, relics. we are in to relics. they say we don't have anything for relics for jesus and mary but if it were all production or invention, they would have invented relics and said we got them here. more seriously, if we look at the shroud of turin, for example, that has been an intense focus of study from all angles, scientific in the last few decades. the results are

extremely intriguing if not convincing. for many, it was convincing enough to convert to the catholic faith. but for anyone who has xae any interest, there are powerful signs that point in the same direction. and there are some that point otherwise, like the later radio carbon date ing is that it was from 15-something. so there is conflicting evidence but the scientific approach is to look at any evidence and include it in a theory. you can't just say we are not going to pay attention to that and come up with theory that ignores the data. you have to come up with a theory that explains all of it or it is not a confirmed theory. sofer that has not happened for any side to explain the data. so we are in the middle of it. and that's the state of science. it's a beautiful thing i think. the intrigue and you get people passionate about the argument

for or against and you work it out. that's what's happening. >> then there is philosophical questions, combination of things. one is that it was a myth that it was invented later. the teaching was clear from the very beginning of christianity, yes? >> yes. if you look at the early stories of luke and his acts of the apostles, in describing the gospel and then into theaths, he describes the events that unfold and naming historical names and territories that is pretty bona fide historical narrative for the times that people take seriously as much as josephus. the whole genre of other gausles, thomas, peter and that which came in the mid second

century is evidence that there was a genre around and multiplied but we are talking about a different genre of ancient texts. and some are 36a.d. the historical point of luke's focus and then first corinthians, 52, early stuff. >> so let's be clear. paul was writing in 50a.d. and luke was writing at the same time and witnesses were still around. i have read the objection, it was an invention and a conspiracy among early followers to what? to persuade the world? >> yeah, the difficulty goes to is it credible that a group of people that were among the most intensive about the commandment to not bear false witness get together and bear false witness. of course it would be possible but i don't think it is a credible argument. they had an a

strict level of ethics which says don't tell lies or even half truths. and you will lay your life down for the truth. the martyrs could have gotten out with simply being quiet in the face of contrary statements. and they felt the need to say the truth and be killed for it. there is that kind of apologetic force, you know, not to accept that as a credible way. >> i think that is an accurate accounting of the early history. no one recanted his resurrection. people died espousing it. there is also literary, i don't know if all of the viewers are aware but after the resurrection, there is a pretty healthy post resurrection narrative in the scripttures in the acts of apostles on what he did. he was present and they recount ris works and appearances. the they retheir own weaknesses and

doubt. litrarily, it is impressive to me. scripturally, i'm not expert but that rings true? >> definitely. there is some early church apologetics on that basis and people were looking bad. like peter says, keep that in there, i want everyone to know i failed, i fell on my face. >> and one of the first witnesses to the resurrection as told in the gospels were women. and women had a social status that didn't have their word to be taken too seriously. am i right? >> they didn't. >> let's take a break and we will return and talk about the resurrection.

hello, welcome back. we are talking about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth. a fascinating historical discussion in many angles. we have established that it has been the christian doctrine from the beginning. there are efforts to debunk or resist it. but what dowe get from it? what is important about it? why does it have a central place in our religious life? >> i would say one thing since it is a tangible reality, at first in luke's gospel, they

see jesus risen and they think it is a ghost and they are panicked. jesus says calm down, do you have anything to eat? and then he sits down and eats and then they are like, ghosts don't do that so it is smpg tangible, it demonstrates a real bodily presence. and that demonstrates the way we have passion, looking at the resurrection accounts, you see emotion, passion, fear, joy, amazement coming out in a way that most of the gausales, it's not there. you rarely see that kind of emotional intensity. >> if god became man and took on human form, he suffers a human

death but overcomes it in this way, in a way that i find unimaginable. i can't imagine what his risen body was. is this settled in the doctrine? >> he can go through walls but it is a tangible body. so it throws us off. the quality would not fit the normal myth or rules of how he can do whatever he is doing. >> it is a display of god's power i take it but displayed rather modestly. he comes, goes, knows his followers, whawould appeal to them, he talks to them, not doing anything spectacular that is recorded in the gospels. >> he didn't apparently heal anyone or work miracles after the resurrection. it was just being with his disciples and convincing them that he is there and really alive. >> let me ask you this. i heard you played christ in the passion

play in lake county. >> yeah. >> that is an interesting angle totry to embody the personage. >> it was a great privilege and an amazing experience. i just came back from a pilgrimage in israel. i had been there five weeks just living, walking, sleeping where jesus had walked and slept. and then i went tothe passion play in germany. a beautiful dramatic production. i was asked to be in the role of christ at the lake county play which is every may, third sunday. in the open, there are about 200 members in the case cast. there are people on horse back, flocks of goats. it's big.. >> sounds great. >> in that play, just the amazing insight view of christ with his sufferings with his carrying cross, i insisted on making a full sized 12 by 12

cross, like 110 pounds. i didn't have to fake it. it was really heavy. with that experience, the grace of the resurrection, coming over the hill, risen, white, seeing the shock wave of awe go through the audience, i thought this is the impact that the risen christ had had. i started thinking about the reason why did jesus have to come back like that? and it was for the full convincing rheumern relationship of the bodily embrace. there is a certain point in the play where i go down to my mom mary, and hug. it is like this is my son, i know him. it was a beautiful moment, just very emotional and affirmative. if you look at the disciples before that, they are scared and hiding in the upper

rom. after they encounter jesus risen, they are ready to go to the ends of the world. they have that intense zeal which wasn't had before the bodily presence of christ could affirm them and they were so convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt because they had been with him 40 days like that and now they are ready to roll. >> you work with young people, chaplain at a state college, university t. are they interested in this? do they find the resurrection more difficult doctrine than they might expect? >> i think it is a challenge. it is easy to believe he suffered and died, you know. that is pretty much a historical point. but the risen part, yeah. there is a movement among the young people to meditate on it or be in the presence of the blezed sacrament, the host who

conseerate during mass which we believe is the body, mystically so, the body of christ, it doesn't look like it but we believe it is him and it is tack tile. that sense of of a physical real presence that has a spiritual power to it is intriguing to the young adults today. it provides a lot of gusto. >> i do hear about this. our youth minister arranges the adoration sessions and i think it is not only meditative but silent and deeply plumbing for people to get away from the digital world and be alone with god. father, i want to thank you for being with us today. we have a minute left so i want to ask what is the one or two things the viewer should take away from this discussion? >> it is an intriguing mystery and it is worth all of the attention you can give it. it is a real question. whether you are a believer or not, there is data out there, the shroud of turin,

the tradition, and we claim that jesus is with us now and there are physicalman fs festations of healing. and also to realize the passion of that event. we have such strength and joy to commiserate because we have a joyful sustenance inside. so let your passions loose and get curious and go for it. >> thank you very much. and thank you for joining us on this easter themed presentation about the resurrection of jesus christ.

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