lied about your e-mails. >> there was classified material e-mails. >> maybe it's because your policies allowed isis and terrorism to spread. or maybe it's because you call americans deplorable. >> so it's that last part, the deplorable, and everything they've put together in the ad. anything in that ad that tells you it is not an effective hit on secretary clinton? >> well, a lot of it simply isn't true.

that they would bring against secretary clinton. i think a lot of the people that stand by donald trump are deplorable, and the things they say are deplorable. you know, trump has had a really bad week. he failed in the debate. he has spun out of control subsequent to that, insulting machado. his 3:00 a.m. tweet storm. you know, his campaign is spinning out. they're grasping for ayt secretary clinton is going to keep on the campaign trail, talking about how she's actually going to make a difference in people's lives. you know, this morning we see donald trump as having to defend the fact that he may not have paid taxes for 20 years, which is something most americans don't have the option to do. so we're just going to stay focused on how she's going to create jobs. >> but are you -- >> and get wages rising.

different hits that have come out on donald trump and, yet, you're not 50 points ahead. if anything, this is a close race. he does have a path to 270. he can win. everything that's happened, and he can still win. is that a reflection on what the country thinks of hillary clinton? >> no. i think it's a reflection that the presidential campaign process is competitive. our country, fortunately or unfortunately, is very polarized people fall into their different camps. and people are concerned. they want to see change. but what's becoming clearer, particularly since this debate, is that donald trump isn't going to present that change in any way whatsoever. we talk about the rigged system. donald trump embodies that. the idea he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years, or at least that's what the "new york times" is telling us. we feel very good about where we are, but this will be

win over voters under the age of 30. new audio has come out from a fundraiser from earlier this year, when secretary clinton was running against bernie sanders. she described some of sanders' supporters as kids that are essentially still living in their parents' basement. was that meant to be a shot at sanders' supporters? >> well, chuck, actually, i'm glad you asked this question. and i really encourage everybody to listen to that full audio. the original piece that came out changed because it completely mischaracterized what she was talking about. she was talking about young people that she'd met who were frustrated that they graduated from college and went into an economy where they couldn't find the job they wanted. >> didn't help that the folks laughed when she said that at the fundraiser. >> well, when i listened to it, i didn't hear it that way at all. i heard her reflecting the things that she's hearing when she's out campaigning.

who has presented a real plan to create jobs and a real plan to help families afford college. she and bernie sanders worked together on a new college compact that will create tuition-free education for people and families earning under $125,000 a year. >> quickly, i know you're not pulling out of ohio, but -- >> not at all. >> -- it's clear the numbers aren't great. do you view ohio as a must-win state anymore? >> i actually don't even accept that premise. ohio is a battleground state. i think either c we're working incredibly hard. i think secretary clinton can win it and we'll work to make sure it happens. >> robby mook, campaign manager for hillary clinton. i'll leave it there. >> thanks, chuck. anti-establishment opinion is trumping the elites this campaign season. i'll be joined by a film maker, michael moore, on the left, and broadcaster glenn beck on the right to talk about. later, they're back. "saturday night live" takes on the 2016 campaign.

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and michael halperin. correction here. rudy giuliani was right, it was a parody account we got that. what he said the night of the debate was, he did think, as he clarified, he said, i would skip the next debates if i were trump. that is the correct aspect there of rudy giuliani. mark halperin, tax returns. what we have this morning, how bombshelly is it? >> the first of many october surprises. the "times" chose to publish on october 1st see more from both of them. i don't think this is as big a deal as the "times" blew it up to be. we didn't learn anything new. they don't know for a fact he didn't pay federal taxes. the story says he might not have. i think americans are going to -- the clinton campaign will continue to press on it. americans who think this is a bad thing, that he won't release the returns, will continue to go for it. i don't think it is a dominant factor and i don't think it'll

>> i wouldn't go with the poor people exploit attack system, too, argument. >> was that a mistake? >> he came around to inside it therefore, i can fix it. that argument is more intuitive to people than i thought. >> he said that the whole time. the "times" didn't change the narrative of what many people already believed. >> right. this lr already baked into your perceptions of who donald trump is. the question in my mind isn't, is this the bombshell report, it's how does trump react to it as we go forward? as we've seen in the history, certainly of this week, but in the history of this campaign, it's donald trump's reaction to difficult stories or difficult situations that gets him in trouble. the story in and of itself, he can pivot off of this and make it about the rigged system and make it about he's the only one

in this and spin his wheels and go off topic? >> i think that is the thing. this whole week has been drip, drip, drip. he could have actually avoided this whole thing with the taxes had he just showed it. no one is surprised, the fact he hasn't paid it. i think there is hypocrisy in the fact he talks about we don't have good education, we have deteriorating infrastructure. he keeps talking about undocumented immigrants. they pay $12 billion of taxes every year. they have skin in the ga system he says he's going to go in and fix. >> what about -- okay, if this is -- i kind of think if you are the clinton campaign, mark, will you sit there and say, we missed the machado story? it seemed to drive him crazier in ways than taxes. >> just to be clear, i think his failure to release the returns and whether he paid tax or not is a big problem, i just don't think it is a new big problem. it's an old problem. the clinton campaign decided

environment. what are we going after? they decided on one thing. he is not fit to be president. doesn't have the right temperament. he doesn't know, you know -- is nice to people. the machado story allowed them to go right to their message. this story does to some extent, because as amy suggested, he's tweeting. not about change in tas this. >> does it hit the 30-year-old argument, that they've been around? >> the number one concern, which goes to what mark said, you talk to the clinton campaign and others around them, the number one concern that voters have about donald trump is his temperament and judgment. if he is going to get the campaign back on the rails, it is on judgment and temperament, not this. >> i'll leave it there for a

opinion right here. we're going to talk about the fact elite opinion around the country is lining up behind hillary clinton. this year, it doesn't seem to matter. from stage left, michael moore. from stage righ this man creates software, used by this bank, to protect this customer, who lives here and flies to hong kong, to visit this company that makes smart phones, used by this vice president, this little kid, oops, and this obstetrician, they all have insurance crafted personally for them. not just coverage, craftsmanship. not just insured. chubb insured. oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena? rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena?. impressive linda.

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welcome back. elite opinion in the united states is lining up against donald trump in ways we've never seen before. consider this, neither president george h.w. bush or president george w. bush or any member of the bush family is openly backing trump. no ceo of a fortunate 500 company is endorsing trump. opinion. they're sticking with trump. we're witnessing a withering away of the power of the elites. joining me are two people who bucked the establishment

michael, welcome to the show, sir. >> thank you. >> let me start with something you wrote a few months ago. you believe donald trump is going to win the election. you believed it before the convention. you wrote this. from green bay to pittsburgh is the middle of england. broken and depressed, struggling. the smokestacks across the country side with the carcass of what we used to call the middle class. working and non-working people lied to by the reagan. after the debate, you thought trump was successful in what he needed to do. explain. >> yes. which i don't want him to win. let's make that clear. i've been trying to say for months here, i live in michigan. across the midwest, across the rust belt, i understand why a lot of people are angry. they see donald trump as their human molotov cocktail.

voting booth on november 8th and throw him into a political system that has made their lives mi miserable. so i think at the convention, i was worried democrats, the clinton campaign were all doing an end zone dance when they were only on the 50 yard line. and the celebrating after the debate, everybody needs to have their game face on here and realize that trump can win. he can pull this off. force here. otherwise, it has a chance of happening. i've lived long enough to know -- you know, i never thought a b-actor whose co-star was a chimpanzee would ever be president of the united states, or george w. bush, who was just completely not there himself, that he could ever get elected. well, i take this seriously now. i don't just -- trump is not

is maybe their messenger. even though they don't necessarily like him or agree with him so much, i think that they -- >> do you -- >> -- love the idea of blowing up the system. >> do you think every time a newspaper editorial comes out and denounces trump, and every time a former cabinet secretary denounces trump, do you think it backfires? do you think it oddly reinforces trump's message? >> i think a lot of people who have seen their vaporize, no longer a part of the middle class and struggling to survive, pay no attention anymore to what the media or people in power say. they've lost credibility with a lot of people. i mean, just take what's happened from how we got into the iraq war. where was the media on that before the war? where was the "new york times," for instance? putting judith miller's stories, concocting weapons of mass destruction on the front page of their paper.

street was creating this crisis that was about to happen? so people don't trust the media. they don't listen to it. and for good reason. the media has let them down. the rich and the powerful have let them down. they used to believe in that and vote for the rich and powerful. a lot of them aren't going to do that this time. for some strange reason, they see donald trump as their means to get back at the system. clinton as somebody that can change the system and make their lives better? >> i hope so. >> but how does she do it? how does she convince them? do you think she carries too much establishment baggage? >> well, yes and no. i mean, look, she's also creating history here. i mean, we have a chance to elect the first woman president in this country. this rarely gets discussed anymore. but i think -- people say, i don't trust hillary or she's not trustworthy.

it's like, she was going to water your plants for you while you were gone for the weekend and didn't? what is this -- >> clearly, democrats let them down. is that the issue here, and she's just another democrat? they don't trust them anymore? >> i don't think people do trust the democrats. how else could a socialist win 22 states? i mean, in my state of michigan, bernie sanders won. if hillary clinton and the democrat the red flag to everybody, that there is a mood out there where people are upset at the democrats and the republicans. what has to happen here though, like with the brexit vote in england, is that people where i'm from have to understand that why they may not like hillary that much or she may be a bitter pill to swallow or whatever, you better take your medicine because the opposite is going to be much, much worse. >> okay.

it's -- to be picking on the millenials is wrong. we were all 19. the last thing you want to do is wag your finger, your adult finger, at these millenials. they're upset at the whole thing. they're upset at the world that's been handed to them. you know, they didn't create the climate change. they didn't start the war. now they have to fix this election? i hope they vote for hillary clinton. but the rest of us have got to get out there and do what we have to do. i know you're in the middle of doing a documentary on these very voters and what's going on. it'll be -- we'll all look forward to that. thank you for coming on. >> thank you. >> let's talk about this from other perspective, the right. glenn beck, founder of "the blaze." anti-establishment type of guy. mr. beck, welcome back to the show. >> thank you very much, chuck. >> last time you were on, you said, i don't belong to anything anymore, and i want to feel like

even the same. i don't belong to anything. nobody is listening to me and i don't have any levers that control my own life. you were describing the way you feel as if there are people out there -- and somebody else described it to me -- they feel homeless in their own country. is that what you were trying to get across? >> yeah. that's not just describing me. i think that's describing a lot of people. i can't actually bring myself to say that your last guess was right, only because thenre saying that. >> that's okay. >> it'll be used against me. >> mr. moore probably is worried about the same thing for him. >> right. but he has diagnosed the problem in the country. nobody feels like they're listening. we're shouting over each other, and you know, everything -- i mean, i was watching the first

those guests would have said those things? everybody feels like there is a play going on, and we're just watching it and looking at each other and shaking our heads in disbelief. nobody is listening to the hard working american who doesn't feel like they belong to anything anymore. in fact, it's almost as if we're standing outside, and we're not being invited to this party at all. it's going to it's interesting that you would have michael moore and me both on the same show talking about this because i think there's a lot of people that would claim that michael moore and glenn beck are responsible for a lot of this. i can't speak for michael because i honestly don't watch much of what he does, and i'm sure he doesn't with me, but i warned about this. you know, when they were mocking

interesting back and forth before this show when we were talking about this segment. i think one of the challenges i know you wanted to discuss is how do you -- the eventual er the eventual winner is going to be governing a populous where 40% won't accept the result and 40% won't listen to what anyone is saying out of washington. give a recipe of how to start to fix this problem. >> no. i've been looking through history and the only thing i can come back to is gandhi and martin luther king. what we're going through is more of a malcolm x attitude.

reconciliation, we just want to win. we have to stop winning and start reconciling with each other. realize we're not going to lose our houses or our jobs or our country. we're losing something much more important. we're losing ourselves. we're losing our civility and decency. we're losing our neighbors and our family. how high of a price are we willing to pay before we say, the idea that which was get em, is not the path we should go on. we have to start reconciling with each other. unfortunately, right now, there is no leader to do that nationally. it's going to require each of us in our own communities to stand and be shamed. and be pilloried for it. but actually stand and do it. >> all right. glenn beck, i'm going to leave it there. both you and michael moore proved why this was a segment

>> you bet. later, tim kaine and mike pence get ready to square off in the vice presidential debate on tuesday. can they do anything to make a dent in the campaign? conservatives argued there is a missing white vote ready to bp gives its offshore teams 24/7 support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells every day.

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welcome back to this week's data down load. there has been the belief by some that in 2016, a working class white army is going to emerge for donald trump and swing key states for him. we've looked at the data in two the numbers suggest there is a missing working class white vote out there. working class whites who stayed home in 2012. are these folks actually registering to vote for 2016? let's start with florida. in the five counties with the highest percentage of white working class voters, places that should lean republican, voter registration is up 4.5% from last fall. but that's lower than the state's total registration increase of democratic.

so there does not seem to be a trump advantage in florida. let's go to pennsylvania. in the five most white working class counties, voter registration is up by a mere 2.8%. it's significantly lower than the state updates overall, 4.8%. and again, lower in pennsylvania than the five most diverse counties in the state, where voter reg over 5%. so in these places where trump has the most votes to gain, the voters who potential could win him the election, there is no evidence that people are registering to vote in droves. there is no evidence that people are in the counties registering people to vote. many of the folks stayed home in 2012. it's quite possible we'll see the same thing this november. coming up, more from "snl"'s take on the election from an

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let's bring the panel back. welcome back, guys. i know all of you were curious about the michael moore and glenn beck conversation. i'll throw up a statistic about

from the top 100 newspapers, 16 for clinton. 4 for gary johnson. donald trump has zero. we do not include the "national inquirer" in our list of major newspapers. >> coveted. >> i know others do. look, elite opinions have had, i would say, no new influence on the campaign. how about that? >> you can argue they've been having less and less influence every year. whether you put this up in 2004 or 2008. we've seen it now, the gradual decline. not just in elites but in elites in everything. business, organized religion. it's much more diffused. the question, i think, that didn't get answered in this was, who is responsible for creating this? people in the media also have a responsibility for that. so when i see folks coming out and kind of wringing their hands about how terrible and uncivil it is, they've been helping -- they've been making a lot of money in helping to create this kind of conversation. > you look at just a trust o

thought it would do the right thick thing all or some of the time. now it is in the teens. it's true of almost every major institution. i think a lot of this is we live in a different, decentralized age and we're probably never going back to a time when people have the faith in big, centralized institutions. one that held up well, notably, local government. >> right. >> and the military. >> and the military. >> both the military, i would argue, draws from a diverse pool of americans. that has helped. at the effect within the media, you've basically had a network for the last 15 years saying that you can't trust politicians. the government is broken. after that, people start internalizing that. we end up getting a candidate like donald trump, who is anti-establishment, completely populous rhetoric. you're like, well, there is such a shift when people say, i deponent trust government. it's because we've had a propaganda machine the last 15,

>> it's mostly economic. trump and sanders weren't members of the parties they ran for. both of them talk about the economic elites and government elites being out of touch with what's happened to the american dream. i think both parties have to get an understanding of why the two guys did so well, regardless of who wins. >> either one of these, particularly hillary clinton, will have to deal with 40% of the country who may not think the election -- >> is even >> and will not listen to anything she is saying. like how do you begin to repair that trust? that was the question i don't think either one of them could answer. >> i think it was telling when lester holt, that was his final question, and i think it was one of the most brilliant ones. she said, i will accept the results of the election. donald trump hemmed and hawed -- >> he answered the question saying i'll support her.

interesting watching his rhythm. he started saying, well, there is a lot of people that was supposed to be deported but now they're citizens. he's trying to say, i'm going to try to delegitimize this because i don't like to lose. it is a window into how he feels about winning at all costs. even to the cost of our democracy. >> we know if republicans, if hillary clinton wins, republicans who compromise with her in any way, shape or form will be cle will have no ability to win a primary. it just is a self-perpetuating -- >> she'll probably win with under 50% and there will be a republican house opposed to her, the e-mail thing will drag on and she's not a good politician. none of this adds up to an inspiring administration that'll restore faith. >> the key for whoever wins, the election night speech, the cab

>> the concession speech. >> right. >> it might be more important. >> right. >> one of the things we're not talking about with donald trump, he's low on the polls but i think we can expect almost a bradley surprise. meaning there is a lot of folks that may not feel they want to publicly say in polls they want to vote for him. when it is between them and the box, they might pull it out. >> i don't buy that yet. we've not seen any evidence people who said they were going to vote for trump voted for him. the people that are saying, that we're hearing, i'm not going to vote for donald trump, they're republicans. if they come home and vote for donald trump, there is no surprise in that. the surprise would be the people that trump pointed out who don't vote and aren't normally part of the process. if they come out, that would be the surprise. >> even though you don't see it in the registration data, and they don't have any ground operation to speak of, i would not be shocked if he can change the electorate somewhat by

in 2012. his core message is built for those people. >> trajectory, he could get to 265 electoral votes. he's five electoral votes away. once you're five away -- >> anything can happen. my favorite parlor game though is more hidden hillary vote or hidden trump vote? i think it is more even than you might think. quick pause here. back in 45 seconds with our end game segment and some more "snl." we'll be right en - the best way to power down at night? no, not wine, but that does work too. one little switch. plug electronic equipment into a power strip. turn it off every night. you'll save money and time for wine.

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at a time. back now with end game, as we try to land the show plane here. vp debate. good news is, i put a compilation of the most memorable moments from vp debates. here it is. >> jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you're no jack kennedy. >> we had enough killed and wounded in this war, 1.6 million americans, enough to fill >> nice to meet you. can i call you joe? >> there you go. by the way, these most memorable moments -- >> they all had one thing in common. none of the candidates ended up winning. >> that's the point. you can win the vp debate and does your ticket that much good, right, mark? >> there is one way the debate will break through, if tim kaine pulls out his cell phone and tweets about a mike pence sex tape.

attention. >> it can stop a bad news cycle and donald trump needs to stop a news cycle. >> no one is anticipating this vice presidential debate like the trump campaign. it'll change the media conversation. otherwise, it'll be perhaps one of the most ernest vice presidential debates in all of american history. and one of the least consequence shl. >> it is interesting in talking to clinton folks. they want to -- the kaine's goal is make pence defend everything trump issues. awkward position for kaine. he has to say, let's not talk about trade but trump. >> they don't want to be the angry person going after mike pence. mike pence is reasonable. he is the one that normalizes donald trump. so that is going to be something that i don't actually think mike pence wants to get into the issues either. he wants to say, he gets off his handle a bit but he is a good guy. that's why i stick my political career on you.

in all seriousness. he can energize the base of the republican party. through dog whistles and direct statements about the movement, he can inspire people to vote for the ticket. >> of the many things trump forgot to do in the debate, the biggest one i've heard from some is he forgot to talk about the supreme court. that was actually a point. it is how you get spectacle republicans, how you yank them on board. >> i think pence is going to go in prepared. he nows how to do this. he'll be on message and will talk about how incredibly on message he was. then by the next day, we may be off on another tweet storm. who knows. >> he is the defender in chief for donald trump. he has to constantly deflect, defend, explain away, and he has not had a hiccup. he has done an exemplary job. >> with a smile on his face. >> whatever happens, we make up wednesday morning and the next

days away. >> and we know he is prepping for that. last night, "snl" was back. obviously, they waited to set their sights on the campaign. here you go. >> gina, huge gina. >> secretary clinton, what do you think about this. >> i think i'm going to be president. >> senator clinton is the prune juice of this election. she might not seem that appetizing, but take her now, you're going to be clogged with crap for a very long time. >> secretary clinton, did you have a response? >> um, not a response, more of a request. can america vote right now? >> look, we laugh about "snl," but when it stamps the campaign, the candidates don't shake that

that's what they're looking for now. is alec baldwin going to seal the fate of trump? >> i was spectacle about baldwin. better than i thought. >> genius. he's got it nailed. the reality, we all see this. you talk to voters across the country. there is not a great deal of happiness about these being the choices. that's what the "snl" thing tapped into as much as anything else. >> to me, the prune juice line might be the most accurate line. >> i think it's how many voters are -- >> line. >> zero pinocchios on that one. nbc news will provide live coverage of the vice presidential debate on tuesday. thank you. all of us at "meet the press" want to say thank you and good luck to mick after 30 years at nbc. enjoy the golf game. still mediocre. we'll be back next week.

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