musical director of the royal opera house in london on his love and his passion for music. ♪ >> you know it is very easy to look at a big piece of music and see all of the details and not see the abcs of music which is harmony, rhythm and melody. it sounds very basic, but i tell you when you are looking at something that is as complicated as some of the music that a conductor has to look at he has to be able to see what is essential. > then the inspiration, especially in opera, the inspiration are the words, what do the words mean? what do they -- what feelings do they conjure up? what do they inspire? what drama is inherent in those words? what poetry.

>> rose: we continue this evening with terry mcdonnell, the editor of sports illustrated as we look through half a century of the magazine and its photographs. >> there was leisure and sports and race and show business and politics and all of these things were coming together, but most significantly for henry luz was what he saw to be an explosive market of people with leisure becoming more and more interested in sports as spectators, he is very sophisticated about it, it was not just about who won and who lost, but the sub text of all of that because the real idea was -- and true sports, we tell each other stories that tell each other who we are, our values are -- >> opera, sports -- funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

>> we want school died have more exposure to the arts, maybe you want to provide meals for the immediate difficult. or maybe you want to ten when the unexpected happens. >> projects from american express can help in the first step. donate to the causes you believe in. >> additional funding provided by these funders: bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

>> from captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> antonio pappano is here, he is the music director and chief conductor of the royal opera house in london, he is also the music director of the orchestra of the in rome he is known for his varied repertoire and for his interpretation of italian opera and mozart, he hosted the miniseries for the bbc and trace it is history of italian opera over 300 years, and here is a look. >> italians love opera, it is in their blood. in this film, i will be looking at four composers who shaped italian opera beginning a whole new art form that 400 years later is still thrilling audiences. this is what opera is all about.

i was born into this world, my father was a voice teacher, and he gave me a sense of theatre, for voices, the love of vocal music, and just the backstage bug, just gets my blood going in a way that no other thing can. >> rose: i am pleased to have an anti-table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you. >> and here you are talking about your father. >> yes. >> rose: and a vocal teacher. you also were his accompanist for a while. >> yes. >> 12 years. i played for his students, yes. >> rose:. >> #02: and for him. >> and when you left, very do yoappointed. >> very difficult for me, actually. >> rose: for you more than him. >> yes. he didn't say anything to me. i had to leave the homestead and he knew that i needed to have other experiences, i needed to grow, but it was a very difficult moment, you leave the

family business, i mean, we were a real unit for so long. >> rose: he was born in my p milan. >> in the south of italy in a village called franco miskano, the town is lodger than the town is big, it is a small town in the camapna region. very agricultural. >> rose: made his way to london. >> to london. >> rose: and then to connecticut. >> and then to connecticut. >> rose: so the english you speak is a product of part of your boyhood? >> yes we moved to america when i was 13, yes. >> rose: and music by that time was what you wanted? >> i was -- i started taking piano lessons at the age of six. we had a piano in the house and it was just the thing to do, and my father sort of forced, forcefully encouraged me to take piano lessons so i did it like every young kid i was out playing football and getting up

to god knows what. and, yeah, football was a passion, it was a real passion, but then i had a certain facility for the music and, you know,. >> rose: for the piano? >> yes, i wasn't great or anything but i kept going at it and by the age of ten or so, i was good enough to start playing for his students and then really, you know, after school i would go to my father's studio and we would work until 10:00 o'clock at night with students, he would do the vocal exercises and i would play the songs and the arias and, you know, every variety of vocal music there was. >> he wanted you to play the piano? >> his biggest ambition for me when i started to show talent for, you know, accompanying, and accompanying singers that i become, you know, the greatest accompanist there was, you know, that is what his world, the world of singers and taking care of singers. >> rose: well, is he pleased

about being the greatest conductor? >> well, i think as probably as much as i am, he would have been surprised to what extent my musical life has developed, i mean, i have had a wonderful career, now as a conductor, but it was something that was far away from what i was thinking, i mean i love playing the piano but other people saw in me the potential for expressing myself in a bigger way, and for being in a bigger arena, if you like. >> rose: on that list with daniel barn bottom. >> exactly. >> and what impact did he have? i went to play an audition for some singers in berlin. i moved back to europe, i was working in frankfurt and barcelona, also working in america, but at that time, in frankfurt i was called to play some add auditions for some singers for daniel barnbaum and the story goes and he loves to

tell the story is while i was playing the introduction he turned to wolfgang wagner, then boss of the opera and said i don't know about the singer but the kid i want. >> and so i became his assistant and i did, i became his assistant for six years. >> rose: and what did you carry away from that experience? >> well, you know, as a musician and as a conductor, and life still at that point this was in 1992, i had no idea, 1986, excuse me, i had no idea i wanted to conduct or anything, but i knew i wanted to learn and he taught me how to learn every -- i think in every field. you have to learn how to learn, how to absorb the material, how to look at a piece of music and see what is really there, what its potential is, how do you bring it to life? you know,. because music is a piece of paper until you play it. >> rose: yes. >> right? and he also taught me about how to organize, how to plan, how to -- we were working

on a very big project, the ring cycle, how do you put all of that together? and how do you sustain a rehearsal period? you know there are a lot of musician whose are very good, give them almost no time to rehearse and throw something together and great but if you have a lot of time to rehearse you have to engage people and know how to involve them, how to keep them interested over a period of time, and help them develop, and he taught me that, i must say. >> rose: tell me what he taught you about how to learn. >> well, there are different things that you take into consideration, when you look at a piece of music. obviously, you know, western music we are all attracted to the melody line but the melody line is supported by so many other things. the movement of the harmony, which actually guides the way a piece of music goes, it is not guided by the melody, it is guided by this harmonic structure and rhythm, and those three in tandem --, you know, it is easy to look at a big piece of music and see all of the

details and not see the abcs of music which is harmony, rhythm and melody. it sounds very basic, but i tell you when you are looking at something that is as complicated as some of the music that a conductor has to look at, he has to be able to see what is essential. >> then the inspiration, especially in opera, the inspiration are the words, what do the words mean? what do they -- what feelings do they conjure up? what do they inspire? what drama is inherent in those words? what poetry? there is a lot to think about. you are not just there to wave your arms. >> rose: i have this theory that if we all understood more of what you just said, while it doesn't limit your enjoyment i would enhance your enjoyment if you just had a sense of how much it can speak to you if you go the story, if you knew the interpretation and who the conductor was and if you had some fundamental understanding

about music, you know and you would appreciate it more. >> i think classical music today needs to -- the people in classical music need to help their audiences. >> rose: absolutely. >> more. we are not -- you know, we are all so professional and we are all so technically accomplished and all so good and we have the suits on. >> rose: right. >> well i don't wear a suit actually i wear a shirt. but. >> rose: i didn't ask you to do this. >> but you know, we don't have -- you know, people i think don't have the background that they used to have, concert going audiences used to have, we have so many distrac distractions, sy positives but we have the television, the internet, you know, everything electronic, we need to help people understand that this is an emotional experience, listening to music is an emotional experience. >> rose: and you have to give yourself over to it. >> yes. and it has literary references.

it has -- there are all kinds of things, and there are some basic things that if you understand, even in the most complicated work, your ears are open in a different way. i mean, i have now been doing some television, i have always in different broadcasts i have done, always done some intermission features and i don't try to talk down to an audience. you try to -- like a human being with enthusiasm, love, skill and knowledge try to impart something that can really make the experience of listening and watching so much easier. >> rose: yes. > and so much more enjoyable. >> rose: so why conducting for you? >> i found out at a certain point in my career, i mean i got a couple of opportunities when i was younger, and although i was rubbish at conducting, i mean, i didn't have any technical skill,

i was -- i was all over the place. >> rose: you really have not had that much classical training. >> not really. but. >> rose: per se. >> but i did have a gift for communicating what i wanted. in some shape, manner or form, either by describing what i needed or somehow by my sort of intensity, and when i saw that that could work, then i got the bug, i must say. because let's face it. there is nothing richer than being in front of 100 musicians and creating this world of sounds and color and expression and drama and theatre and add the singers and the world. it is a big responsibility. i see it as a responsibility, but one where, you know, the fact that you get to perform and at the moment, the live music thing is the most important thing about conducting, is that music live, and this is from somebody who has made a lot of recordings. >> rose: yes.

>> there is nothing like the live experience. and the visceral excitement of being in a room with other people watching other people engage fully and this is important, that performance today performers today need to really, really do it and really convince the audience that music making has to be with full intensity and full on. >> since live is important, since the hall is important, since the music is important, you say five times in my life in which i have had a moment that i cannot even describe, it was so good, a perfect marriage between the music, the orchestra, the house and the conductor. does that happen a lot? >> it doesn't happen a lot. it happens sometimes -- i am very lucky to be the music director of two fantastic organizations, and at my opera house. >> rose: in my opera house. >> in my opera house in london i

get to do a real variety of opera. >> rose: yes. >> and when the production is right, when the stage director and the conductor and the singers have come together in this very, very special way, there is nothing like that experience, because opera is an all-encompassing experience. now i could mention to you certain titles we have done a fantastic tryst on -- fantastic lady macbeth, wonderful the minotaur, wonderful lu lu, wonderful ring, you know, so many different times of -- >> rose: are you getting ready to do an opera or based on in some way based on the life of anna nicole smith? >> you have been doing you research i can tell. yes. about every two years we do a new opera. >> and the man who did it also did the jerry springer opera. >> yes, the man who wrote the lyrics. >> rose: right. >> every two years we do a new opera and commission a new

opera, and we have been thinking, you know, what does new opera mean?? i mean a lot of times operas, new operas are based on very famous literary sources .. for instance, operas the great gas by, view from the bridge, things like that. in london we have had things based on greek mythology, the minotaur, stuff -- the operas i have been conducted that are new have been based on shakespeare, the winter's tale, macbeth, the tempest, new opera with a contemporary subject is what we wanted to. do it is sordid, it is awkward, society today. >> rose: you are talking about celebrity. >> about celebrity, the fetishism of the camera and paparazzi and how destructive that can be, but also people's

penchant for having wanting to have their 15 minutes in the spotlight. >> andy warhol. >> and, you know, and how without talent you can become famous, you know, it is pretty scary. >> >> rose: famous for being famous. >> famous for being famous. >> rose: this is from a remarkable opera in which you are talking about the dying scene. here it is. >> one of the most poignant parts of this on are a is mini's death, we know it is coming, we know it is coming maybe even from the very beginning, it is the most beautiful, the most emotional moment in any open remarks i think, it is the most beautiful ending because it doesn't end loud, it doesn't end, you know, melodramatic, and like she disappears, she goes, and the words are fantastic. i cry all the time when i see it. this ending. for me, there is silence before

her actual death. ♪ >> that gets me every time, that one. she is gone. >> gone, but in styles, with that chord. nobody is moving, nobody does anything. i think it is beauty, that gets the audience. you cannot keep your eyes dry, you can't. you have to cry.

>> rose:. >> she is the best. she is the best. >> rose: you have -- you have miles of footage with her just like this. >> yes. yes. we couldn't include it all, of course. >> rose: if you don't understand the magic of opera from that, then i am not sure what you can say. >> i believe that. i mean, did you see it? when you feel that atmosphere, the atmosphere that is created by something that is very, very intimate, very, very passionate, and very, very sincere, it is -- you know, in a room, i mean, you tell me you are going to the met tonight, you are going t to be n the company of 4,200 people, and at that moment, the magic that is created by the audience itself, it is fantastic. >> rose: total silence. >> where does this rank with you as a puccini favorite.

>> it was the first opera that i every hersed, prepared, it was in oslo, 1987. >> rose: you were then in norway as you were the conductor at -- >> i was the music director from 1990 to '92 but this is my first gig as a conductor of opera. and i walked into the room and never forget it and rehearsing act 2 and i just took over, the first opera i conducted, i just took over and i took over the staging, i took over telling people how to sting, i took over how they had to act, how they had to be, the tempos, i just -- and i realized then that was the defining moment for me, this was going to be my life. >> rose: at that moment? >> at that moment because the theatre was something that was such a part of me, was so -- it was hidden inside, it had been built up for so many years, all of these experiences with my

father, with working in little opera companies as a piano player and all of that had become a part of me and bang it just came out. >> rose: to watch this opera, you get the feeling that is exactly what is happening and i am sure you scripted and reno, and there is a sense of all of the stuff that is just coming out of you, the stories that you want to tell us about opera, how it got started. whawhat happened? how it evolv? >> for me it was very important to be able to be free in a program like that, not only to share my enthusiasm but to share the terminology also, and that actually makes it quite fun because a lot of italian words flying here, you know, potarmento, all of these words, rich ativo and translate them on the spot, but it just gives a life that language, the italian

language is so much a part of the lure of italian opera, the italian language is opera, it lends itself to music, it is so musical in itself and so the bbc let me do that, because they are not big on using a lot of foreign terminology but if i translated it immediately and included it in the show, it enhanced everything, and gave people information that they need to have, or they should have. if they are going to, you know, experience opera. >> rose: opera does want to reach a broader and younger audience, yes? yes? >> well, this show was done for people who know nothing about opera, who know a little bit about opera and know a lot about opera, these shows were done on location in italy and in various, various places, important places for opera, venice, milan, naples, buceto, everywhere, and rome, of course,

and i think if you make it part history, part travel log, music and that that sort of makes it a bigger experience. we are going to go on and do other things. on the short-term, we are going to do a show called fallen women that is going to hook into the show about anna nicole. >> rose: yes. >> but going to trace fallen women through the history of opera, through the certain characters, certain operas. >> rose: that is great. you haven't started that yet? >> no, when i get back to europe, we will do that and also i am going to do a big introduction to the opera tusca which we are filming at the opera house. >> rose: have you done most of what you want to do in music? >> oh, no. >> rose: what do you want to do that you haven't done? >> now that i have done this -- the taste of doing this television stuff i must say i am hungry to do more of it. >> rose: because?

>> because i think it is a time now when audiences need that little bit of help and i can, in a noncondescending, free and really enthusiastic, truly enthusiastic way sell them what the product is. i have no product with that, the product is fantastic, music and -- >> rose: you have no trouble of that because of your passion and love for it, it is easy to communicate. >> i hope so. that's it. >> rose: clearly it is. you can't talk without moving your hands for god's sakes. >> true. true. >> rose: while we were listening to this tape your hands were here knowing exactly when the silence was coming, you know. whewhen you prepare what is the challenge? having done it so much, what is it that you reach for every time you take --

>> well, you go back to the abcs of music, when you are learning, when you are studying, i mean i go back to my piano lessons of course i had, i had a wonderful teacher in connecticut, norma vereli, and we studied not only piano music but show tunes, early music, music that had nothing to do with the piano and, therefore, this way of looking at music from different angles, from -- is this a piece that belongs to the romantic period? is it something that harps back to the classical period? is it towards the modern period? you ask yourself all of these different questions, but basically, wow come back to harmony, melody, and rhythm. >> rose: but you must, i would assume, have to adjust to who your stars are.

>> ah, now you are asking a different question. how do i fit in other people to my vision of how things are? >> rose: do you take and work to where they are or do you bring them to where you are? >> i have a very strong sense of what, if i am working in an opera what the singers i have available, what they can bring of their own, i have a very, very strong and keen sense of vocal tempo. when they sing to me two notes i know -- because i have spent so much time i inherently know what the tempo needs to be for them to bring out the best performance. now, do i tweak that or do i offer suggestions, interpretive tempo weiss? of course i do. tempo wise. i have to fit their vision and my vision together and make it into a totality. but i don't think there is such a thing as this is the way it is

going to be and that is my vision and that's the way it has to be. when you are dealing with singers it is something very delicate, the throat, the personality, the words, the weight of the voice, if a voice is lighter, if it is heavier, you can't just say, this is it. it all depends and all very, very fluid and i think that people have -- you know, i have been dubbed a singer's conductor. >> rose: yes. >> i take that as a compliment because i feel that i can help singers give really of their very, very best because they feel comfortable enough. >> rose: and comfortable means having the right tempo for them to -- >> right. but what i do push them in i iss that they are dramatically believable, for me that is the most important thing, that when they go on stage, they are not only sort of singing machines, and they hit the high notes but believable as characters, that is what i beat on them about. >> rose: to you say you have to in habit this character every bit as any good actor would in

herent it and you have an additional tool at your command, which is music? >> well, of course. yes. i work with the stage director, you know, the most beautiful thing in putting together an opera is when the stage director is talking about the musical side and when the conductor is talking about the dramatic side. when you have that going, then you have got something really going, and the singers in rehearsal feel that, and they -- and all of a sudden you make them think in a different way. it is so important today because the opera experience has to be believable. >> rose: has technology changed opera? >> well, certainly from a production point of view, the possibilities of what can be done on stage. i am not necessarily -- i don't necessarily think it is better, i think it is just there are more possibilities out there. but where it has changed, opera,

is how now opera is in cinemas, and people are going to cinemas to see live opera, all over the world. >> rose: yes. is this peter get's creation. >> peter gelt has been the motor in a worldwide campaign that he started, it is fantastic and we have all jumped on that band wagon and the dissemination of his product from his opera house has been nothing short of remarkable. it is fantastic. >> isn't it amazing to be able to go wherever you are, if there is a theatre carrying this and watch a production with the metropolitan opera live with the quality of sound that you can produce today? >> yes. also the opera house, not only the met. >> rose: you do it there too. so what does it mean to you to be associated with this historic place? >> well the venue, the venue was

revamped about ten years ago, and beautifully, the public spaces are incredible, and the opera house is smart tend up and it is a .. wonderful place to be and a wonderful place to rehearse, i mean all of the preparation of spaces for opera productions are just fantastic, we have windows, we don't rehearse on the ground. we can look out into the world and it is -- it is a very important place which we have attracted so many terrific singers. >> rose: to read about you is to -- is to read somebody who is as driven by the work, by the demands, by the challenge as anybody you can imagine, i mean, you undertake this with assertion of purpose and with overwhelming obsessive need.

>> yeah. i love opera, but opera is hard. opera is really hard to do right. it is very easy to do sort of mediocre opera and it is very easy to do it badly, but to do it well is really hard you have to get ever everybody on the same page. so i feel that i am in a position where i have to set the example. i have to be there the earliest in the morning, i have to leave, be the last one to leave, and i have to, when i am performing, i have to really be generous and give of myself, and that is what i expect of the singers too. because that is what the audience expects at the end of the day. you know, if you are running a big institution, a big musical institution people are looking for someone to set the example, if you are working on a production and i am defend ago production, a new production, come on we are going to pull this and we are going to make it break the first night, i have got -- you know, i have a show

that i am behind this a million percent and if i don't do it, nobody else will. >> rose: it is also about leadership and pulling all of this together for one magical evening, night after night after night. you have done a magnificent job. >> thank you very much. ♪ terry mcdonnell is here and the editor of sports illustrated, that magazine was first published on august 16th, mean 54, it is a weekly analysis of athletic achievement, it has defined a standard for modern sports journalism, sports illustrated also identified by iconic images on its front page, michael wrote dan, jack nicholas, muhammad ali account for more than 100 of the nearly 3,000 covers. every one of these is represented in this anthology, sports illustrated the covers, i am pleased to have terry mcdonnell back at this table, welcome.

last time you were hear we were remembering george plimpton. >> we were, we were. >> rose: and there is no george plimpton, i mean there is nobody even like george plimpton i just thought about that the other night. >> i tell you when i go through this cover book, when i think about how we put it together, george is there always, because he is -- he wrote many of the cover stories. >> rose: tell me first of all the creation of sports illustrated. here is what you brought i in fr me to see. this is kind of dummy what would i say? >> it was the first, it was the cover of the first dummy. >> rose: right. >> you take yourself back to the early mid fifties, and everything that was happening in america was sort of the beginning of what we understand modern life to be now. >> rose: right. >> there was leisure, and sports and race and show business and politics and all of these things were coming together, but most significantly for henry luz was what he saw to be an explosive market of people with leisure

becoming more and more interested in sports as spectators, as actually not so much -- he is have sophisticated about it, it was not just about who won and who lost, but the sub text of all of that, because the real idea was, and i believe this completely, that it is through sports that we tell each other stories that tell each other who we are, our values are there. and he saw that. >> rose: tell me more about that, through sports we tell ourselves who we are and what -- >> we tell each other stories. >> rose: right. >> and within those stories we tell each other who we are. we like a particular athlete because they have achieved something on the field or on a court, but we like the them beat because on the way they live their lives, we are very disappointed i mean when an athlete cheats all of the stuff

that happened over the course of the last 12 years really with steroids and other performance enhancing drugs made everybody feel bad. >> rose: sure. >> and. >> rose: their heroes were tainted. >> yes. and -- but then rise ago above that were new heroes and those who did not do that, we felt one way about but we also told each other who we were by the way we felt about certain of these athletes who came forward and said yes, i did that but it was a mistake i wish we hadn't done that. >> also, sports illustrated in the stories it tells about race. >> yes. >> rose: big time. >> huge. it is the principal storyline in sports, i believe. >> rose: really? >> the principal storyline? >> yeah. i mean. we were -- when sports illustrated began, jackie robinson was playing baseball, but everything else was segregated, and even baseball to the degree that there were black

players was not -- there is a famous story about bear bryant when usc came to play the crimson tide, alabama, and just thumped them with cunningham was their great fullback, and great black athlete, and this is over. and there that point on, they started to recruit. >> rose: but alabama went to be number one. >> exactly. >> rose: saw the writing on the wall. >> but it had been segregated up through the sixties. you know, there are many, many, many stories of a really stories. >> rose: in basketball and -- >> yes, it did. not just in the south, everywhere across the entire sports landscape but there seemed to be an understanding that would come through when black and white athletes played together and liked each other that you could not help but be conscious of when you watched. >> rose: sports also i had a beginning and middle and an end,

there is, at the end of the game, a result, a score. >> yes. >> a winder and a loser, it has that. it also has an ability for us to feel community pride. >> our team. >> yes. >> and represent us. i can identify with whoever those athletes are, because they represent me, because i live in new york, or i live in boston. >> it also represents, i think, a sense of on a plague field, it doesn't matter. how rich you are or how poor you are, it doesn't matter, anything in the end, at the end of the day, but how well you played the game. >> rose: is that true? >> that is absolutely the core dna of sports illustrated, that is exactly what the magazine is about. when -- if you -- i think you

were there, yankee stadium after 9/11. >> rose: yes. >> i mean that was where the country came together, not just the yankee stadium but stadiums all over the country. >> rose: it always has residuals to it and a legacy, even the game that when it is over and you are sad it is over, it was a great game, et cetera and that builds a kind of reservoir of strength and good will and good feelings and connects fathers and daughters and sons and mothers/narcotics and all of them who go through this process together. >> rose: it trance extends ages. >> it is tribal. >> rose: it is tribal and like life it will break your heart. >> you should come on over and edit. you can do it. >> rose: muhammad ali, michael jordan, jack price. they have been on the most? >> yes, they have. they are -- they were -- if you think about it the most dominant athletes in their sports, and of course mohammed was, you know,

widely ranging across the culture with influences in many, many ways during all of those years. michael jordan is more complicated, i believe, as an athlete, because he could do anything and he was the threetd who was the only person cow would imagine was on the cover of sports illustrated in three different sports, made it in golf, of course basketball and then baseball, which is why he is not spoken with sports illustrated a number of years. >> rose: because what? >> they put him on the cover when he left basketball and went to play baseball. >> rose: michael would hold something against you? >> they dade cover called bag it, michael and he made an error zero in the outfield on baseball and he said, that is -- that is -- i am sad. and i am so sad, i don't want to talk to you guys ever again.

>> and you can understand that. >> rose: you broke his heart. >> and his sadness continues to this day. >> rose: so that's the way it is. >> i know. yeah. >> rose: but the thing that was great about michael jordan, was in the end, you know, the capacity to have the ball with the clock running out and make the difference. that is where winners come to -- >> completely thrilling. total, no nerves. just unbelievable. just win. >> rose: now the other side of sports illustrated. someone said to me the other day, you know, it used to be sports illustrated and now espn, what is wrong with that statement? >> it does not reflect any demos or math or anything else. >> rose: tell me what it means. >> i don't know. >> rose: you think of sports media and you used to think of sports illustrated and now you think of sports media you think of espn.

>> well, espn, where, you know, i have a lot of friends and we are all basically in the same business, going way, way back is a very, very strong company that is based on traditional programming values. they run games. they license league rights and they run games and they do that more and more and more. and they build around that, boisterous, fun, interesting, pointed the, sometimes very, very smart commentator and stuff, but they don't really tell stories in the same way that sports illustrated does, day after day, you know, month after month, week after week, year after year we do it on the web site and we all know who what the core is and who beat who but i would suggest in the stories of sports illustrated on its various platforms you get the texture, like it would break

your heart. it is a very real. >> rose: all right. so talk about the digital platform. so where is a magazine, like sports illustrated? which, you know, with all of it, it has been a huge moneymaker for -- >> it has, yes. >> rose: it is a fat little magazine. >> yes. we are okay. >> rose: zero so tell me a story. you told me jeff, who now runs the house, the place, over at time, inc., or time warner, whatever it is called, you went out to the west coast. >> there was a conference out there, i just attended. >> rose: and what did you say? what was the story? >> what we have been doing at sports illustrated for just over a year and at time, inc., we have been developing applications and new ways to look at the traditional, you know, content that we have. and we have been very successful at it, i mean these new applications,.

>> rose: not going to the op ed application, separate op ed. >> snot only that you are going to be able to see sports illustrated on all of your various appliances. >> rose: right. >> all of the new tablets that are coming out you will be able to get a subscription that will allow you to have everything, the print, and all of this digital on all of these different platforms when google comes with their tablet, the galaxy, which is coming in about five weeks, i think, your phones, various things that pull together the traditional journalistic values of sports illustrated in a new way that i would argue is more immersive than if you listened to the people that we test with this stuff, you will enjoy it very much. and we had a very, very, very great head start, because sports illustrated was the only magazine left that has staff photographers and we have had staff photographers for all of this time. >> rose: right. >> 13 of them now.

and nothing shows off these pictures more than those back lit screens, and so there i was. >> rose: ah. >> five years ago thinking well, okay, we are at this game and we maybe run six pictures in the magazine and i don't know what i would do with the other thousand. >> rose: you do now. >> that's right. but i mean, we curate it back through but we do slide shows and all of this stuff and everyone who follows that is very satisfied with it. they think -- >> so the future is not over for sports illustrated magazine? >> oh, this is the most exciting time in magazines across the board. the next six months you are going to see all of these transitions and new stuff is going to come, it is like i have tossed off a line in the speech that, you know, code is now content, what i mean by that is that the experience itself, with these new devices is so imherive and so interesting and so dynamic and it can be so enriched by what we do with it,

it is a new thing, enlightened engineers, empowering enlightened editors. >> rose: all right. so you were anxious to get your hands on this, not resistant to it at all? >> completely. >> rose: even though the revenue for the other part, you know, far exceeded the revenue for the new part as of now? >> yes, but i think that you are going to see those, what do you call it, you know, the transforming, you know, transactional -- e.r.a.s. >> rose: so the first line on your obituary will be terry mcdonnell, editor? okay. maybe father, because you had a famous son but you have a wonderful family but beyond family what is it going to be? editor? editor? writer? >> i liked the work, really. this is a job. >> rose: and you love it? >> yeah. yeah. i do. >> rose: but here is the thing about you. i mean, first of all, you are a

friend of plimpton that goes a long way with people like me, but what made a difference is that for you, the skill is the recognition of the story, the command of the language, you know, and the ability to understand whether you are talking about winter publications or henry luz's publication i mean you can go edit high tech tomorrow, because you have something, what is it? >> i think the designers that i work with will tell you that i have a very twisted notion that i am an art director. also. i mean, no. i don't see -- everything you just mentioned is crucial, but there is a larger reality that has to do with the packaging and how it goes together and the pacing and all of that stuff, and especially

the way it feels and looks, and it is not as if somebody out there is reading the magazine and because it all matches up and the type ography is just so, oh that terry mcdonnell what a great editor, but unconsciously if they know they are in good hands they will trust you and if they trust you, then they will go with the stories you give them and they will believe and they will want more of it and go forward. >> rose: that is my life. that is true. >> well. >> rose: it is true, people will trust you to make the right decisions and to tell them the stories that are important, and it doesn't have to be done by testing. >> that's right. and when athletes mislead you or lie to you about who they are, that is the most disappointed, disappointing story you can have. >> rose: so tiger woods has been a heartbreaking story to you? >> his is a human story for me, he was never -- you know,, he --

he seems tragic to me in ways that some athletes who were .. rebellion and sort of belligerent about what they were doing and did it anyway and lied about it and then got caught, and said i'm sorry. >> what is tragic about this? >> i think something about the prison of the success he had and the entitlement that went with that, and i saw him as, you know, people would look and say, well, he is in accessible and -- he is very sort of isolated. >> rose: so you think that in a sense what he was experiencing and doing was in some ways connected to isolation? >> yes, i do. i do. i think that the adrenaline that

an athlete feels after a great victory or whatever, that is not over, you know, you walk off that course and you go someplace and, you know, you want to do something, but he is isolated and, you know, i don't pretend to know what happens inside anyone's marriage but there was no law broken or anything like that, it is just that something was sort of off, and maybe the trends weren't the friends that they might have been. i don't know. i don't know. but it is a tragic thing to me flew is it tragic because of the dimension of, a, his fall, and i am convinced he will be a great golfer, he is a great golfer and in contention, competition as we speak, at least he was yesterday, first day, is it that or is it something broader than that? you said, for example, that he was so good that he was so up on the pedestal -- i mean

this is the guy who had more endorsements than anybody anywhere, period. >> this is not over. >> rose: this is a guy, not over meaning what? there is going to be a rise or fall and a rise again? >> i believe that, yes. i do. i do. >> rose: it is the editor in you. >> well, it is not just a good story, it is -- i think that he -- i think he has it in him. >> rose: i do too. >> i really do, and this is different than an athlete who will be caught doing something and say, well not only did i not do that, but that reporter is dishonest. >> rose: and also it is different people who sort of are doing a whole bunch of state your fulagainst's people's willa whole other issue too and embarrassing. >> yes. >> rose: to all of us. >> and again the law. >> rose: and against the law. exactly. bad, all of those kind of things. this is what is interesting about him too, and i am fascinated by this, obviously and i am fascinated by the skill

that he has and what happened and how much of the game is mental and all of that, but the landscape has changed and would have changed anyway in that there is a rise of competition that programs he has never seen. >> uh-huh. we wrote about that, have been doing that for some time, and that sort of shellacked with a kind of well, we are glad tiger got his finally because he never really gave us interviews or whatever, he had a funny relationship with the press. they were very anxious to point out all of the great young golfers and all of this and very anxious to say they were going to, you know, they were going to camp him soon enough anyway. well, i don't know. they didn't catch jack nicholas too fast, anyway, a lot of good golfers in the world. >> rose: are you convinced that tiger will catch up with jack?

>> yeah, i am the one -- i think he can. i think he will. >> rose: i do too. so you really don't care that much about sports in the end? >> i do. >> rose: come on. that's not what you love. >> well, you know, just the way that sports will open lives up for you. >> rose: you love the story. >> yeah. it will open life. those stories will open life. >> rose: sports for you is where you see -- >> i was not a sports -- >> rose: sports is where you see the experience played out, period. i rest my case. >> i was not a sports editor until i got this job. >> rose: exactly, you didn't grow up as a sports editor. >> i played football, though, at cal. >> rose: really? this is serious then. for the university of california at berkeley? >> correct. >> rose: you were halfback? >> yes, i was. >> rose: were you pretty good? >> i was the fastest of the slow, according to the -- >> rose: were you old

conference? >> i am just telling you i was a good high school football player, i happened to be recruited by bill walsh, the great. >> rose: oh i love him. 49ers coach. >> at the time he was to the head recruiter for mark lebie, in high school i had been coached by dick vermeil -- it was great -- >> rose:. >> it helped me get this job. >> rose: what that you had a football in your background? >> no. when i was hired, john huey asked, i wasn't sure -- >> rose: john huey. >> i was not sure what magazine he was talking about, there were openings at time, inc. and he said, hey, did you -- can you name 5 nfl coaches? i actually played for three. and. >> rose: so he was impressed right there. >> it became a joke. i was not a very good football player. i stopped playing, i didn't finish four years, i did go to

cal on a scholarship. >> rose: did you dabble with going to newsweek or not. >> i thought it threw. i like sydney harmon, it was not a long and complicated courtship, it was not -- it was not a huge, you know, thing for us to put on the table and push back and forth. you know, it was something that happened in passing. >> you are great. sports illustrated, the covers, terry mcdonnell, thank you, pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you.

>> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg. a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. we are pbs.