7 >> charlie: the fundamental point which most people didn't understand is you need an electric car that is more convenient and affordable than a gas car until you do that consumers will not buy it. you'll get a small percentage of believers that will buy a thousand or ten thousand of the cars but once you get to the point the consumer will pick the cheapest and most convenient. >> charlie: we continue with natalie portman and director aaron afonofsky.

>> they're all dancing at the same time and there's a male domination of the art. it really is -- was finding pleasure for herself rather than pleasing other people that allowed her transformation to a woman and killed the little girl. >> i talked to a lot of dancers and julian went to all the different swan lake dance and asked what she was doing and performing and then i asked what exactly is this creature and she's like during the day she's a swan and at night she's half swan and half human and the idea wept over my head. >> charlie: agassi, portman, afonofsky when we continue. >> funding was pr provided by t

following: maybe you want school kids to have more exposure to the arts. maybe you want to provide meals for the needy. or maybe you want to help when the unexpected happens. whatever you want to do, members project from american express can help you take the first step. vote, volunteer, or donate for the causes you believe in at membersproject.com. take charge of making a difference. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: shai agassi is here the ceo and founder of better place he's called an e electric car prophet and he's attracted more than $700 million in venture capital and israel, denmark and the united states will have charging spots and battery-switch stations and agassi sees electric vehicle to the answer of the central question how do you run an entire country without oil with no new science. i'm pleased to have him here to answer that question and more at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> charlie: tell me your story,

american-born. >> israeli-born. >> charlie: and the american connection is? >> i moved back in '95 and we moved to california to work with a fruit company, apple. >> charlie: how are they doing? >> fantastic and they kicked me out in '96. i worked on a product that somebody at apple at the time before steve came back said i was working on a technology that would never pick up it was called internet browsers. >> charlie: no, they didn't. and you believed in internet browsers. >> we believed in them, yes. we were thrown out but it's the classic american dream. we were two weeks from bankruptcy and raised venture capital and a year and a half later sold my company for $110 million. >> charlie: then did what? >> i got acquired by one of the

largest software companies at sap and grew to be the president of all product and was supposed to be the next ceo and joined the forum of young global leads he and an asked us a question how would you make the world a better place by 2020 and it creates an early onset of the mid-life crisis whenever they tell you whatever you do doesn't make the world a better place and i said what if we can run a country without oil and have that happen within the next 15 years in a way every country could replicate it. i didn't have the answer but i had the question and at night on the flights from germany and back i was reading all the books and i was trying to put a solution together on paper and wrote one after the another and couldn't get it done.

everything that everybody was telling me that would be ethanol or hydrogen or something else and came back to electric cars and was able to put a system together on paper and oil was starting to come up and just getting to about $35, $40 a barrel and i felt like i had a solution. i had a way to get it done. >> charlie: electric cars can eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels. >> on oil. >> charlie: on oil. >> it's a critical distinction because everybody talks about our energy dependence. we don't have an energy dependence in the u.s. we have an oil dependence but we have every other form of energy. >> charlie: coal and natural gas. >> and renewables. we have endless wind and solar. we have all the energy we want to make electrons. we have no energy to make our cars go so we're addicted to driving cars but we have no oil to fuel them. >> charlie: there was a time in our history in which there was a

choice between going electric or going internal combustion. >> here 100 years ago. going back there were more electric cars on the streets than gasoline. >> charlie: and what happened? >> henry ford came up with the electric starter and ford model-t took off. two things happened at the same time. the electric light bulb that edison brought in took off and it replaced the use for oil so oil became reall really cheap t point where nobody wanted it and it was at zero and the demand started to ra ramp up and there were electric power at station and there was no electricity and they poured it back into the market. >> charlie: back to your

question, if we can develop electric cars and vehicles we can then eliminate our dependence on oil. >> absolut absolutely. we import 4 billion barrels of oil into the united states every day. that's the biggest issue that's the stumbling block in our trade balance and our deficit and in the way we will conduct business and the economy in america. most people do not connect it as such a big item but all illustrate it for a second. in 2000 a gallon was a buck. >> charlie: right. >> by 2008 a gallon was already at $4.50. the cost to the american household, the middle class of effectively a chinese tax

because the cars required oil was about $3200 per year. the tax cut that we got back, the are refund was $300. the government gave you $300 but the oil took $3,000 and it took away the ability for most people to pay their bills. >> charlie: what percentage goes to oil. >> 50 percent. >> >> what's the barrier for electric cars to crash in order to eliminate the internal combustion engine? >> the fundamental point which most people didn't understand is you need to make an electric car that will be more convenient and affordable that be a gasoline car. until you make it more convenient and affordable consumers will not buy it. you'll get a small percentage of believers that will buy a thousand or ten thousand but you won't get to mass market or 50%.

once you get to the point a consumer will get the cheapest and most convenient and then they'll pay just as much as gasoline to drive a mile. the car makers said pay us more or between $10,000 or $20,000 more and lose is something to convenience and go not as far or as fast but you can save on the mile and pay less on the mile and it was the exact opposite of what consumers wanted. we're the first company to make electric cars cheaper and more convenient than gasoline cars. >> charlie: how did you do that? >> we came to the realization that the battery which most car makers looked at as the component of the car is the consumable. that's the replacement for oil. it decays over eight or ten years to the point we call it a

dead battery. >> charlie: the key is think of oil as the -- as battery as the new oil. >> that's right. and think of the service provider, the better place, the operator as we call it as the new gas station network. instead of asking the consumer to buy the battery on year one or day one and pay all the money and be stuck with the limitation of the battery, we buy the battery. we own the battery just like an oil company drills for oil. we don't have a rig blowing up in the middle -- >> charlie: better places and what kind of business? >> we're an operator. much like a cell phone company, at&t is an operator for cell phones and much like a gas station network like a chevron is an operator for cars, we're an operator for electric cars. we buy the batteries. we sell the miles. >> charlie: so lay out your vision and your -- be a prophet for us.

>> basically what we've seen is the cost of driving electric cars is a combination of the cost of the battery and the cost of electricity but the battery is a consumer electronics device which we all know like any other device we use gets cheaper and cheaper every year. so our cost of the gallon equivalent and driving a mile gets cheaper almost by half every two years. that creates a fantastic business model because oil keeps going up and our cost keeps going down and we sell like gasoline. we sell miles. >> charlie: are we at the infancy of battery technology. >> we're in the middle of its life. for the last 30 years batteries got twice better every five to seven years and will continue to improve. >> charlie: in longevity, in power or what? >> in the cost per unit of energy and the number of cycles on the battery.

remember -- go back ten years your cell phone after about a year would lose most of its power and buys a new battery and nobody thinks about it any more. it outlasts the device. ten years ago we had 200 cycles, charge and discharge cycles, today we have 2,000. 200 cycles is half a year to a year, 2,000 you don't notice. >> charlie: what's the velocity? >> every two years are cost per mile goes down by half. if we get a delta, it gets better and better every two years. what we've done where the business model is different we figured out what the cell phone guys have been doing forever, we apply the part of the mile and apply it back to the cost of the car and making it cheaper to buy and over time the cars will get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper

to buy. >> charlie: your philosophy is this will only fly if you address the reason that people will buy cars. they're not going buy cars because you tell them they're evironmentally better they will only buy cars because you tell them they're more efficient, less expensive and will do a better job. >> the most successful introduction of the environment is the prius. i think we've gone years now since the prius was introduced and only $3500 more expensive than the equivalent car and slightly less fast and less convenient than the normal car but because of those tiny differences. $3500 and a bit less speed, less than two percent of people bought the prius. flip it, what if it was $5,000

cheaper and faster and more convenient. 98% of people would go to the electric cars not because they're environmentalists but because they want to save money. >> charlie: is there anything beyond cost in comparison to an internal combustion engine. >> electric cars are very fast. the first car we're putting on our network is twice faster on its acceleration than combustion engine equivalent. >> charlie: on acceleration. >> you notice the moment you press the pedal and the guy next to you would have been left in the smoke but there's no smoke. >> charlie: that's a great feeling. >> we measure the speed from 30 to 50 and 50 to 70. when you need speed to move away from the next car and we're twice faster -- >> charlie: you touch the

accelerator and it's boom. there's no catch up. >> there are in gears. you press the pedal and you're immediately at the maximum power and there's no noise. you can sit in the car and enjoy power and silence which is what we in our minds match to the luxury cars the lexuses and the in fi infinities with no noise. >> charlie: and what about the thing they call anxiety. the worry i'm going to be some where and i might be stuck. >> that's at the heart of the better place solution. we realize that if you need to drive a car on the freeway and suddenly you run out of battery and someone asks you to stand on the side of the road for the charge it's a bad greyhound bus. because we separated between the

ownership and we created where you drive the car and you're defleete defleede depleted battery come use and a new one. it's an automatic replacement. we learned that from kids you ask a kid from a radio controlled car do you want a rechargable battery or replaceable. they want the rechargeable battery so i don't have to ask mom to buy new batteries but i want the switchable battery because if the other kids from the neighborhood come over and my battery's not charged i want put a du duracell in and keep playing. it's switched on the freeway going from new york to dc. >> >> where's the finest example ball. is israel the place where it

will work? >> we raised the capital to put a network across the country. 55 of the switch stations across the country. charges spots in parking lots across the country and we're putting the network in the ground right now. you'll be able in about two month's time to drive from any spot in israel to any spot in israel. switch the battery and keep going and drive across the entire country without waiting for the battery to be charged or any inconvenience. >> charlie: it meets the need for those who travel lets say more than 40 miles a way. 50% of the people go less than 40 miles a day. >> two issues. if you come to a person and say all you need is 40 miles they'll say but every once in a while i go beyond that and don't want to be stuck. so the reality is you need three times your daily drive. we found out with consumers what

you want is the ability to go from home to work and even if you forgot to connect the cabling because you came with the gym bag and ran into a meeting and want to drive back home and not get stuck and you want to go to work the next morning. three times the distance is what they want. >> charlie: what's wrong with hybrid cars like the volt. >> there's nothing wrong about it but again looking at a lot of the cars coming into the market right now at about $35,000 to $40,000. it takes away a lot of consumers from even considering that and you need to be in the range of $15,000 not in the range of $40,000. if you look at the average car in america it's not the $20,000 suv you see in commercials. the average car is an eight-year-old drive.

the average american drives an eight-year-old car. it costs $15,000 and you tell them you'll drive a $40,000 green car it's not a consideration. we have to get $15,000 and down to $10,000 to switch the country from oil. >> charlie: how long will it take to get there. >> i'll make a bowled prediction. israel will have the network open in 2012 and plan to own a network for tests in june and by 2010 more than 50% of new cars in israel will be electric. >> charlie: what will a charging station look like? >> think of a smart socket in your garage. if it's in the middle of the street and raining and nothing happened an separate meter so

you see how many gets to be paid by us and not you and a socket that allows the utility to decide which cars are charging. >> charlie: are we going find ourselves in a situation around the world where there are all kinds of competing systems and unless you find standardization. >> it's happening on two fronts. there's a number of working committees trying to work on the socket. so we don't need to figure out how to take a car across borders and go from one state to the other and it looks different. >> charlie: an adapter. >> but at the same time what we need to realize is something is happening by the force of the market and china is going electric and they put end the top 16 companies in china in a room and said we tell you to do

this. china go by edict. >> charlie: it's state capitalism. >> it's an edict. china abolished the mini scooters in the city and from one night to next morning -- >> charlie: why did they do that? >> you couldn't breathe. they had the one-piston scooters that were fuming all over the place and one day they abolished it. today they make more electric scooters in the world. they'll do the same thing with cars. >> charlie: what does it mean for china it becomes the center of technology for switching to all kinds of evironmentally efficient lifestyles? >> i think what you'll see in china, you go back to china ten years from now they're probably making and selling about 40

million electric cars a year and ke the batteries locally and electricity locally and in the from coal which is what most people are claiming but a solar ring around the city for a cars this drive in the city. >> charlie: did you say in answer to the question china and india and china for the next 25 years and then india. >> i think demographics are are the strongest force. what happened to china is they've reduced because of the limitations on the number of kids you can have, you'll have 20 years from now two kids that are supporting four parents, a number of grandparents and at that point they'll open up the number of kids you can have so you'll go back to having two kids. >> charlie: i think they're starting. >> you can't have two workers supporting two people. india's the flip case. they've now got 50% of the

population under 25 and these kids are going to go into the labor force, india's bound do do the same thing, the reduction on the size of the family and they'll have 50% of their work force in their 30s and 40s with not a lot of kids or parents to support and india's getting into the same chinese wave. india's not turned the infrastructure investment on and already at 9% growth. imagine india and overlay the last ten years of china. >> charlie: this is an entrepreneurial thing for you. is it more than that for you you started as a software guy and sold that and became a corporate executive and decided you wanted to do something else and from there you're just in one more entrepreneurial thing or some other motivation for you? >> i got to admit i didn't plan

to be in the electric car business. i wrote to the paper more of a soft piece and presented it in the conference and perez challenged me and ran me around the country and met with the prime minister and help he said find a car company to make the car and when i came back to president perez he said great, start a company and i said no, this is a government office. it's like nasa. israeli government should do this. i have a job and he asked me this question he said, this job must be so important because you can save your country and save the world. instead of that you choose to going back to being the ceo of sap and tells me what about the job can save the world.

it was a moment where you can go back to your life and do something meaningful. i quit my job. i started for money and nobody made money for starting a government branch. it never succeeded. >> charlie: what happened then? >> we approached five large car makers and only one of them had the division and the imagination -- that was renault-nissan. the guy's a genius and he really came in in the meeting and we had another executive that told us not to do this and after five minutes he told president chefs he i'm your partner. i'm in. count me in. and he stood by his commitment to in the t and it's fantastic. >> charlie: the one thing they did is developed an all electric

car. >> one is the leaf from nissan and the other is from renault and the influence is what we're going at at israel and looked at a bigger sedan. we wanted to go after the suburban driver and not the city driver and we picked the bigger car, more convenient, more comfortable and that's the first car we're taking to market and he's betting the company on the future of being electric and they're making nine different cars on that line. >> charlie: just take me back to what better place is today? >> so better place today is -- think of us -- >> charlie: it's a quasi government company? >> no, all public. we never got a penny from the israeli government. they basically came in and put the legislation in place, the tax legislation -- >> charlie: to make it totally a private company.

>> and now in israel and denmark and about to put them in australia. >> charlie: and when do you come to the. >> we're doing a trial in california where we have a taxi network in the bay area and just got awarded money from the california government. >> charlie: they'll have a network in the bay area. >> 60 taxis will drive people into the airport and like taxis and that will prove it can work even in thu.s. economic conditions. we have a taxi network working in tokyo where the japanese government funded a project to prove it works and for the first time we had an electric taxi go for more than 100 days nonstop because it switches and goes and taxi are the extreme driving. they never stop. >> the first taxis will be able to switch their batteries here

and by switching the batteries they'll be able to extend the range. the battery switch process takes as little as 60 seconds and that's much shorter than fueling up at a regular gas station. here we're capable of handling as many as 12 batteries to supply freshly charged batteries. most car makers said it was impossible. today not only is it possible it's actually driving in the streets picking up passengers. in tokyo the taxis are two percent of the total cars and responsible for 20% of total emissions so by eliminating taxi emissions we'll eliminate a charge part of taxi emissions. >> charlie: what's going to happen in brazil. >> they moved historically toward ethanol. they're the only country in the world that convert water into energy and they convert energy

into water and i was on the phone with the foreign minister in brazil and if you want to convert ethanol to driving the most efficient way is to burn it in the power plant and send the electrons to the car and send energy from cane and sugar cane and electric cars. >> charlie: thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me. >> charlie: swan lake is one of the world's most popular and endearing ballet that tells the story of a princess turned into a swan and a new film starring natalie portman as nina a young ballerina tapped to play the swan queen. here's a look at the film. >> i had the craziest dream last night about a princess that

turned into a swan and when she falls for the wrong swan she killed herself. he promised he'd show me more this season. >> he should. you've been there long enough and the most dedicated in the company. >> the new swan queen. >> you're going to be amazing. >> i watch the way she moves. sensual. >> seduces. attack it, attack it. cop on. >> what is this? >> nothing. >> she will not respond. >> i don't want to talk about that. >> you need to relax. >> it's a role, isn't it? all the pressure. i knew it would be too much. >> what is she doing here. >> the only person standing in your way is you.

>> how do you know where i live? >> i have my ways. >> nobody's after you. >> please believe me. >> what happened to my sweet girl. >> she's gone! >> >> joining me darren afonofsky the film's director and natalie portman, i'm very pleased to have you at the table. >> thank you very much. >> charlie: how long have you wanted to make this? >> natalie and i had a conversation about nine years

ago in times square. we had a coffee at the old howard johnson's which i think now an american apparel and that was our first conversation and natalie told me one of the things she always wanted to do was play a dancer and i wanted to develop and to get into the ballet world is insular and she would say when's it coming. i said you're fine. >> charlie: he does that to every director. they wait for her so get the project co project completed. why did you want to do this? why did it intrigue you. >> working with darren was a big opportunity. when we talked about it he hadn't made the "wrestler" yet

and i always wanted to di to to dance film and i danced younger and such a cinematic expression because it's movement rather than words. >> charlie: the screen play was set for broadway originally? >> a screen play set in the broadway world and my sister was a ballet dancer and a wanted to do something in the ballet world and wanted to translate it and it was called the under study and there's no under studies in ballet. the conversion took a long time to figure out how to make it work. >> charlie: you went to julia kent. >> i went to a lot of dancer and julie pointed out something great to me. she actually -- very early on she went through all the different swan lake dances and asked her what she was doing and

performing and at some point i was like what exactly is this creature and she's like well during the day she's a swan and at night half swan, half human and the idea of the werewolf, half swan movie was exciting. that's the thing i kept coming back to. >> charlie: did that appeal to you? >> i think obviously for an actor to get to play really opposing natures is always attractive. >> charlie: black and white. so tell me about the character, nina. >> well, nina i felt started as a child in this world and journey into becoming a woman and it's a world that keeps women as little girls. they want them to start themselves to not have breasts and hips. they want them to -- they call them girls not women, not dancers. they refer to them as girls.

they're asking the core of dancers to move at the same time. for the very female art there's a real male domination of it and it really was finding pleasure for herself rather than pleasing other people that aloud her to transformation to a woman and allows her to kill the little girl. >> charlie: the casting? >> it was originally written in russian and i'm a huge fan of vincent lahalls. he's amazing. there's no one like him. sexy, different looking, powerful and as soon as he got into my head i tracked him down and said you have to do this. >> charlie: how do you sell an actor. >> every other scene he has to work out with natalie portman. it wasn't hard. like what's today. it was a good role for any actor i think.

>> charlie: describe the character. >> he's the director of this fictional new york city ball elt company and he's clearly an artist and for him he was able to justify his behavior. >> charlie: did you talk to people like peter martins? >> i did. i think it was more of an influence. vi vincent met with peter martins and our choreographer spent a lot of time with him. >> charlie: other than new york what's the ballet capital of the world today? >> i guess it's paris, moscow and l.a. > >> charlie: roll tape.

>> in four years every time you dance i see you b obsessed but never see you lose yourself. all the discipline for what? what? >> i want to be perfect. >> perfection is not just about control it's also about letting good. surprise yourself so you can surprise the audience. transcendent and very few have it in them. >> i think i do. >> you bit me? i can't believe you bit me? >> charlie: tell us about that scene. >> well, part establishing the character as a little girl was doing this voice that darren

when we first talked about it was reluctant he thought would be silly and we were like okay, we'll try it and if it's not working -- >> where it came from was from all the training and she said do you notice they'll dancers talk with baby voices and i go wow. it goes back to what natalie was saying about the keeping them young and we were interested and neverous about it because it's a big choice as an actor but something to play with as she turns into the black swan. >> charlie: and preparation for you. a bunch of ballerinas have written books. >> i read them and tried to relate to the ballet world because it's a specific culture and though ours is not about city ballet but the whole

religion grew around him. >> charlie: all right. roll tape. the rehearsal is interrupted by the arrival of the competition. >> not just the crowd and the world. come on. like a spider spinning a web. attack it, attack it. come on. >> well, good of you to join us. >> sorry. >> girls, this is lily. straight after the plane from san francisco filling rebecca's old spot. warm up. >> no, it's okay. i'm good. >> should i go again? >> no, thanks. i've seen enough.

veronica, the white swan variation. come on, come on, please. all right. maestro. two, three. >> charlie: so while we're watching the clip, guess what he says, boys and girls, he said when are we going get to the dark stuff and the reason he said that, he doesn't wantou to think it's a film about the ballet but there's intrigue here and danger here and conflict here. what else? >> horror. there's a lot of scares in it too. we went back to swan lake the ballet and tried to take the actual ballet and translate it into a movie and swan lake is really a fairy tale and it's often gothic and horrific element elements and her animal drama

and made black swan. >> charlie: there was were huge reviews for the merchant of venice and asked her when she might be playing shakespearean characters and she said hamlin. she did not mean ofelia and what did that say about you? >> i like hard things. i like difficult things. i don't know. i feel like i would be a good soldier. i don't think it's necessarily a positive thing. >> charlie: you think beyond boundaries is what it says to me. >> bernard did it. >> charlie: there's a new book on her too.

that's world that you've chosen has it given you what you expect and wanted. this profession, this job this... >> i started when i was 11. i did my first film at 11 and it's been 18 years now i've been working -- >> charlie: everybody's doing quick math now as you know. >> i'm 29. it's hard to say what you expected and wanted when you're 11. i was like i want to be famous. i wasn't like thinking -- >> charlie: but then you decided you wanted to go to school. >> yes. definitely added to my ability to take the most out of my work. >> charlie: how did you do that? >> it gave me i think the ability to follow up on my curiosity and go after as deeply as i could anything i was interested in.

it me the courage to voice my opinion even to people i was intimidated by and really respect and when you sit in the room with a professor who is so light years ahead of you intelligence wise and they listen with respect it gives you a different way of being able to think and talk and most importantly gave me friends that are completely interesting and completely inspiring and there for me whether i fail or not which i think is a great security to have. >> charlie: you wanted to make a dance movie because you've been a dancer and beyond that? >> it's such a beautiful way to express without words because words are so approximate. there's so much else to convey -- you can't -- that's what cinema's about. it's about conveying through the imagine, movement, sound and not

the intangible and expressing the iintangible. >> charlie: what's the similarities between making the "wrestler" and this. >> the writer turned to me and said there's a lot of connnects and i like to think of the highest art and lowest art if you want to think of wrestling an an art and the artists put their bodies first to create entertainment and blow people away with what they do and structurally they're similar. >> charlie: willing to put their bodies at risk for the joy of the performance. >> exactly. and they end in similar ways and there's very similar structure and it's interesting because that's kind of the magic of cinema that being able to

connect with the 50-something-year-old aging wrestler and at the 20-something-year-old ambitious dancer, if the human emotions are real you hopefully -- anyone can take a ride with them. >> charlie: how do you see the competition when the characters here? >> well, it was interesting the first conversation darren and i had in 2000 he said it's going to be about the ego and how you start feeling the threat of the least different -- the threat of the least different person the person who can most replace you when your ego gets out of control and mentioned the double. >> it was a big influence. >> and it was appealing to me because again that's really the world of women. we're so easily replaceable you

hit a certain age and there's someone waiting to take your spot, younger, thinner, prettier and more appealing. it's a great way to sort of show how this woman can break out of that just by leaving this structure. >> charlie: you also cast winona ryder. >> it's an interesting role. she plays a dancer being pushed out at the glorious age of 35. for the new young ones and i thought the metacasting because winona ten years ago would be doing this type of role and also it helped me because i needed to communicate to the audience it was a star and when you see winona's face, she's kind of iconic and was willing to do it and take a small role and it was flattering to be on the front end of winona's second chapter

of her career. i think it's going to start for her again. >> charlie: you do? >> she was pleasantly supportive and good and worked her butt off for me. >> charlie: roll tape. >> i'm sow sorry to hear your leaving the company. >> what did you do to get this role? you always said you were such a frigid little girl. what did you do to make him change his mind. >> what's going on here? >> hey. hey, i need to talk to you. i need to talk to you. >> go home. >> no, don't you do that. don't do anything like that. >> my little princess, please, hold it together. >> i'm coming by later. i have something for you.

it's a token of my appreciation. >> right. >> you make the most of it, nina. >> charlie: what are you trying to balance? what's the tension? >> the tension is for the audience not to be completely safe with what's happening to nina. she's an unreliable narrater and your with her. it's a very subjective film and the whole purpose was to get the audience into her experience and she slowly lose her mind that's black swan and white swan are connecting with her and as of the as we can connect with the character the more the audience will feel. it's a fine line of when she goes crazy how much can you allow the audience to think she's crazy or not crazy. that's the tight rope walk of it. >> charlie: i ask this often of actors, what do you want from a director? >> i love feedback.

i think part of my -- you know, i like -- i think artistic honesty is the key and darren is exactly that. he'll tell you when it's not going well and going well and you can trust when it is going well and he'll tell you when it's not and always has a million different idea with every scene and always on top of it and at the end would always say do this one for yourself, the last one do it for yourself which is exactly the key to the character because it was what vincent says -- vincent's says to my character to find your own pleasure which is at the root. >> charlie: find your own pleasure. >> so often you are trying to please your direct like at the end of the pageant sometimes you like that as an actor you look at them and think how was it and

when they say just do it for yourself a new world opens. directors often say do a freebie but do a free one and putting it in that way doing it for yourself -- >> charlie: if you do it for yourself, are you asking much of yourself. ask darren. >> charlie: she says i got a-and you want another take. >> she trusted i was happy and probably 70% of the time we ended up using the take and the other 30% we didn't and had it from something else and had it. >> charlie: you said you wanted to girl roles behind you. where is this? >> that was actually i think when people ask -- because i think i'm a good girl the thank

the black swan was the big transformation -- secret. the hard part was going back because i so wanted to leave that little girl voice behind. nichols for years -- we did the seagull for years and told me to get rid of the little girl voice and saying have you to get rid of your voice and it was hard to go back because it was a regression and i got to put the whole 20s and the whole experience of getting out of that voice into to the part and it was really helpful. >> charlie: what's your ambition now? >> to get back to enjoying not

working. i've been working so much and i think i've gotten into a sort of work ahallis workaholism. >> charlie: how did you get there and why did you get there? >> probably, for the first time all my friends had jobs. all my friends have real work and no one was free during the day to hang out or do things and i didn't have a real personal life and i just through myself -- >> charlie: you did not have a real personal life? >> yeah. i put everything into my work and now i feel that it's time to find -- >> charlie: suppose someone said to you today, everything is fabulous. the movie's great, we've launched it and the premier's in a couple weeks.

just go, do, where do you want to go, what do you want to do, cha kind of thing -- >> i want to go home. i want to be home. i want to be home more than anything. >> charlie: in your house in los angeles? >> yes, or in new york near my family and friends. >> charlie: on long island. >> yeah, with my parents. our work takes us away from our life. it's a very unusual thing. >> charlie: regardless of how much exposure we have to the world there's always a part of you that just wants to be home. >> well, we were so lucky with work we get to travel and meet such interesting people and doing super exciting things all the time so -- actually neil and i were talking about how actresses don't care about being married because we get to dressed up all the time and want to be in sweat pants at home. >> charlie: congratulations.

black swan opens in theatres. thank you very much. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org