>> rose: welcome to our program. tonight, paul keating, the former prime minister of australia, takes a look at the rise of asia and what it means for rest of the world. >> we're moving to a much more representative world structure where half the world was once ridden with poverty, they're emerging from poverty. where-- we're coming into a much better world but a trickier one, one where we have these assortment of interests. in a sense, you can see this by the development of the g-20. we had-- you could run the world from the north atlantic through the g-7. that's now at least gone. >> rose: also this evening, the fabulous nora ephron. >> as you get older, you really do remember nothing. you really have entire sections of your life that have floated away in some sort of-- never to

be retrieved way. and every so often-- you know your friends say to you, "you know what you always say any something," and they tell you something you never said, you're pretty sure you never said. >> rose: paul keating and nora ephron when we continue. additional funding provided by these funders: meals for th or maybe you want to help when the unexpected happens. whatever you want to do, members project from american express can help you take the first step. vote, volunteer, or donate for the causes you believe in at membersproject.com. take charge of making a difference.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: paul keeting is here. he was prime minister of australia between 1991 and 1996 as well as treasurer between 1983 and 1991. during these years, he oversaw economic reforms that laid the ground for today's booming australian economy. they included the floating of the australian dlark lowering port tariffs and the opening up

of the country to foreign banks. he is known for formation of an australian republic. he is the chairman of the china development bank international advisory board. i am pleased have him here for the first time for an interesting perspective on china today, asia today, and how he sees the factors and forces at work that are shaping us. welcome. >> welcome, i thank you very much. >> rose: tell me how you see the rise of asia and what it means for the rest of us. >> well, for the first time in 200 years, we are seeing an equillibration of productivity across the world. before the industrial revolution the output of a single person was much the same in all the continents across the globe. so the countries that had the biggest populations, of course, had the biggest g.d.p. the industrial revolution broke that link, and the surge in productivity meant small nations

like britain with 20 or 30 million people had more output than a massive country like china. that 200-year gap is now being closed. that link is being reforged. we've now got a link between population and g.d.p. that simply means that those countries with the greatest populations will have the greatest g.d.p. this must mean, therefore, that economic weight in the world will change relatively. >> rose: two quick points. it certainly does not mean income per capita. >> it does not mean income per capita. it means g.d.p. as a nation. >> rose: why is that true? >> why is that true? because i think the productivity change and with the the change to per-capita incomes won't occur, of course, across whole-- whole communities immediately. it will change over time, which is your point. that is, that is per capita. these countries will still be

poorer, much less than in the west. but all together, because they have such larger populations, see, the emerging economies this year will account for about 60% of growth in the world. a decade ago that was 25. >> rose: a decade from now it will be more. >> a decade from now it will be more. china particularly is the driver of this-- i think-- i think we're seeing a very big paradigm change. see, i think this is not a-- perhaps a popular view but it's my view. i think globallization is going to be more and more a developing country concept. >> rose: really? >> i think-- we think in the west, well, look, we're still in charge of things. you've got china out there. you've got windia. you know, we're sort of-- i think that's-- i think that's -- >> isn't it already happening, though? as china flexes its economic muscle, as it forges economic

relationships in search of natural resources-- oil, copper, other minerals that it doesn't have-- it forms economic relationships and therefore, it becomes an avenue of globallization. >> yeah, i think that if you look at china, i think we're in for a big round of world trade based on chinese trade and investment. and you'll see china investing in places, turkey, railways in africa, investments in south america. and because of the loss of prestige by the west through the global financial crisis, we can really see two worlds developing. there's the china brick world, russia, brazil, et cetera -- >> india, china, turkey and others. >> that's right. and then you'll see the much more slower growing western world-- north america, europe. >> -- in europe's case, charlie,

with declining populations. so declining populations, you have india and china with growing populations -- >> although in china's case an older population and because of the one-child policies they had. >> it will catch up with them in time but not yet. in other words, a big kick in g.d.p. i think the lesson-- there's a strategic lesson out of this. we can't make the same mistake with china that the west made with germany at the end of the 19th century. >> rose: what was that mistake? >> the mistake was that russia, britain, and france cabled at bismarck's creation and this in the end brought us down to the first world war and through that the second world war. >> rose: and hitler took advantage of that in terms of rallying the german people to right the wrongs done in world war i. >> exactly. we can't have a conflict of this kind over the status of china. >> rose: we can't afford a war

with china over failure to recognize-- >> it's legitimacy and kbrog power. >> rose: is there anybody that anybody doesn't treat its legitimacy and growing power? their-- >> as with the rise of all great powers, as they start flexing their-- their economic and strategic power, the rest world will try and constrain them. and the chinese will need to be given space, just as, finally, the germans wanted their space -- >> but that's very tricky. >> what i mean by "space" is great powers have great interests. russia had great interests. germany had great interests, and china has great interest. when the rest of the community doesn't recognize those interest we always have conflicts. we're moving to a much more representative world structure where half the world was once

ridden with poverty, they're emerging from poverty. where-- we're coming into a much better world but a trickier one, one where we have these assortment of interests. in a sense, you can see this by the development of the g-20. we had the all-- you could run the world from the north atlantic through the g-7. that's now at least gone. >> rose: so, therefore, what ought to be the strategy for the future on the part of the united states or the west, where the economic growth rate is going to be different. >> the west monoply on-- on capital and technology is finishing. this is finishing. that monopoly is closing. >> rose: that's sort of tom friedman's argument about the world is flat. >> yeah, and, you know, the west consumers are no longer

consuming. the west consumers are saving. the demand is not there. the west financial system is no longer extending the credit it was once able to extend. so we are seeing a change in the way the world really-- a really mammoth change in the way the world works. >> rose: we have also seen reports that asian neighbors of china are nervous. should they be nervous? all near neighbors of great rising powers are always nervous. this was true of everyone around germany in the 19th century. it's true of everyone around china this century. >> rose: does that mean that in the middle east we should say to iran, we recognize iran. we recognize your sphere of influence in the region, so, therefore, we should-- >> they have been-- iran hasn't got the rising power g.d.p. status of china or, say,

japan, before it, as the united states had as it was rising in the 19th century when it was being recognized by europe. i mean -- >> you also have an interesting argument to make with respect to russia that president clinton made a strategic error by being in favor of the expansion of nato because it threatened russia. >> well, the russians lost 26 million people carrying most of the burden of winning the second world war. when the war came down, gorbechov magnanimously agreed to a united germany and nato. i believe we should have had enough ingenuitiy and imagine auction to have included a place for russia in the new world order. rather what, we did was to circumscribe them by take

putting hungry, poland, and the czech republic in nato. president obama is correctly changing that circumstance. he has correctly given the russians -- >> he's not taking them out of nato. >> no, no. >> rose: he's halting the-- >> exactly, the missile fields around them, et cetera, the missile shield. in other words, he's-- the united states correctly in my opinion, is starting to give the russians, as a great power, some space. the point i referred to earlier in the interview. similarly, the same with the chinese. in other words, great powers have demands, interests that other great powers sensibly should recognize. i think we're very tough on the russians, and i think we got out of it cheaply. i think president obama is being correct, very correct in trying to make, with secretary clinton, in trying to make this new adjustment.

>> rose: what's your assessment of obama's foreign policy? >> i'm a great supporter of obama's foreign policy. he-- first of all, he has legitimatized the continuation of the g-7, which is a complete change in the order and the way the world works. secondly, he's -- >> you mean his evolution into the g-20. >> sorry, into the g-20. he's now starting to, let's call it democratize or make more representative the i.m.f. he's reached out to russia. he's reached out to islam. he's seeking a good and viable working relationship with china. he's establishing a new relationship with india. he's trying to close the door on nuclear proliferation. these are pretty-- i mean, it's a series of ticks here. you tick the box, tick, tick, tick, tick. >> rose: what do you make of the response to the president when

he went to the g-20 in souk in which he tried to have some impact on china and its currency and appreciation of it's currency. do you understand the resistance of china? >> charlie, when countries trick up the real change rate there's always a problem. china's trying to camouflage the real exchange rate by central banking interventions. and you can see the outcome there with higher chinese inflation. you can't trick up the real exchange rate for free. so what china's afraid of is this-- china knows it's going to make a switch to consumpion, but it's afraid to make it without a loss of output. what it fears in moving from the investment export model to consumption, it's fearing on the transition a big loss of output. >> rose: right, right. and, therefore, it means that they will have to close down factories and do those kinds of

things alcohol create unrest in a society that-- >> but my own view is i think the... exchange rate is killing china. i think the people who are suffering the most under the... exchange rate in china are the chinese. that's mu view. >> rose: so they should let it-- >> they should let it go. >> rose: so it rises at its own level. >> absolutely. >> rose: if it does damage to their exports you say they're better off in the long run. >> the smart people make the move. you see, if the smart money in china knows the shift is going to go to consumption-- let me digress for a moment. the story of modern china is a story of urbanization. urban areas are full of people. the creativity of china is locked up in those cities. to unlock them, you've got to let the consumption run. you can't keep all of this top-down investment in the export industries or in exporting. it must go to consumption. all those clever chinese entrepreneurs get the signal in

one millisecond if the chinese authorities decided to not keep intervening in their foreign exchange markets and you start to see the investment move out of export industries into consumption, into services, the very things the chinese people actually need. so while-- whatever the chinese delay in sending the price signal by keeping the exchange rate valued by central banking intervengs or undervalued by central banking interventions, the smart money stays with export. >> rose: what did you think of the recent action by the central reserve? >> i think it's completely correct. >> rose: when the chinese government says we think you're trying to create an advantage to the united states? >> i don't think the chinese are entitled to say that. i think the united states is entitled to say, "we have a problem-- we have somewhat of a political hiatus and a fiscal

promise. we have, at any rate, a very high- and medium-turned trajectory in the national debt of the united states. consumers have gone home. private investment is lagging. so the other instrument of policy is monetary policy. the fed can't change-- have any more impact at the short end of the maturity, so at the long end the federal reserve is buying assets and pumping cash into the economy to reduce the long-term bond rate. this to me is simply a discretionary action, a sovereign discretionary action by the federal reserve and a correct one. i think this is-- i believe the federal reserve is doing this to lift economic activity and employment. it may also have the effect of lowering the dollar-- may, may. >> rose: what you just said is exactly what they say. that's what chairman bernanke said. >> rose: in my view they are correct. >> rose: tom friedman, none of

china's nashuas mention the "c" word containment. i call this precontainment or containment light in the last year in the upsurge to china's claim of the south china sea. it marshes a stark contrast in the region of a few years ago. >> china has gotten cocky of late, and you pay for cockiness. china is, i don't think, an expansionist power and it is self-absorbed with its own trouble. >> rose: who do you know it's not an expansionist power. >> it has never been in history. it's unlikely to be. it is very absorbed with its own problems. if you would look at the life of the average chinese minister over a month, most of that work, is of course, about internal problems. but as in all rising powers, you have the suspicions-- special if the suspicions are fully fueled by-- by let's call it

declaratory or cocky behavior, neighbors notice and they don't approve. >> rose: how about this? this is an economist for november 13. i think this is just out. buying up the world, the coming wave of chinese takeovers. which is exactly your point, which is globalization. >> yes. that's why i think it is becoming a much more developing country concept. >> rose: china has already had in its behavior a developing country? >> well, the notion of globalization, you see, china has a very large -- >> developed country. >> china has a very large ttried deficit with the rest of asia. it has a big tried deficit with asia which means asia is dependent upon it. south asia, southeast asia, are all selling good to china. >> rose: not only, that latin america. >> and latin america. >> rose: brazil and chile's biggest market is china.

>> i think we can fairly say that chinese trade and investment will lead another round of world growth but it will lead it outside the general fences of the west, outside the general perimeter of the west. >> rose: and it's not only an economic shift. it's a political shift, too, in terms of power. but you do not believe that in the end the united states and china have to be in conflict. this is zacarria who said basic-- he said i've spoken to a lot of people in asia, and there is-- they think-- in fact, everyone hopes america's close relationship with china can be used to moderate beijing's behavior. he goes on to say, more in terms of the hedge strategy. the u.s. should maintain a close and production relationship with china hoping this will ensure a peaceful and prosperous asia. if china's rise becomes threatening and destabilizing, america should have in place strong alliances with other asian powers, such as india and japan, which obama's trip sought

to accomplish. >> correct. >> rose: you agree with that? >> i agree with that. >> rose: i'm going to close with this. why is afghanistan in the national interest of the united states? >> well, it gets back to -- >> or awe stalia for that matter? >> it gets back to the whole question of 9/11 and terrorism and the source of it, and the stabilization of. the great problem-- i tend to think the united states had one war too many when it had the iraq war, and as a result, the effort in afghanistan was compromised from the beginning. >> rose: afghanistan would have been okay if they hadn't been distracted into-- >> i think so. >> rose: iraq. >> better, certainly. >> rose: how is australia going? >> we're still growing at about 3.5 period of time and we've. doing that since about 1992. the answer is pretty well. australia is a very flexible economy. and the thing i'm most happiest about is that working australians have had a 30% real

increase in incomes since 1992. >> rose: what do you think of the prime minister? >> i think the prime minister is finding her feet in a difficult-- in some difficult terrain. but, charlie, it's easy to find your feet if the economy is growing reasonably, you know. australia's in a good economic position. australia is nearer the fastest growing power in the world for the first time in its history. >> rose: long away and now it's close. >> all of a sudden, it's close and of course that's to material advantage to us. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you for the invitation. >> rose: nora ephron's religion is get over it in her world, painful personal experience, is often just the right ingredient for a funny story. she has successfully mined divorce, aging, professional

failure, and many other traumatic topics for their full comic potential. her newest collection of essays is called "i remember nothing." i am pleased to have nora ephron back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: right before i started. >> yes. >> rose: somebody mentioned something to me, and you said, "i know i forgot to tell nick." that's a great title. do you agree? >> well, i don't know that. >> rose: why not? >> i don't know that. but it's certainly the story of my life, but i did forget to tell him. >> rose: the story of your life in that you always want to remember to telenick -- >> you know the weird thing where you're in the same house with someone and you think i have to stand up and go into the other room and mention this to the person i'm living with. and then other things happen. yeah. >> rose: really? >> yeah. >> rose: but you do that often? i mean, he is your what? your soulmate? your husband of 20 years. >> my husband of some number of years that we forget. >> rose: yes. >> fwept-something. >> rose: and he has given a new

definition to what "support" means? >> no, he's re-- you know, he just reminds us all that third time's the charm. >> rose: here's what i want to do. because this-- writing a new divorce thing, you have been writing about divorce more than you should. >> i have not written that much about divorce. it's just been -- you know, there's just been a certain amount of, if ooeral when i do. i don't write that much about it -- >> how about a whole book? >> a whole book but that i was long time ago. but i wrote this thing because i had something else to say about this, they believe very seriously about myself which is that it defines you for a long time. >> rose: you remember divorce forever? >> no, you don't remember divorce forever. but it is the defining fact of your life if are you divorced and have kids with the person that you're divorced from. and that just seemed like something worth saying.

especially now when divorce is such a-- it's the running soap opera in america. >> rose: take note of this-- you are writing a blog for huffington post-- >> no, no, i am not writing the blog. >> rose: you're editing the blog? >> oh, no, not really. it was my idea-- after i wrote this piece on divorce, i said to ariana huffington, "you know, we should do a section on divorce on huffington post because the truth is that people -- you know," i said to her," marriages come and dp, but divorce is forever." well, it's not really forever. the truth is it kind of isn't forever, but it takes up a lot of space in the pie of your brain when you've got kids and their father is someone you're not married to anymore, or vice versa. so i thought it would make something that we could have some fun with on huffington

post. >> rose: and it's been very popular. >> very successful. >> rose: the eighth or seventh most read thing-- >> and i have a married friend who says she reads it every day just to feel good about her marriage. >> rose: which is what i wanted to back to. but does time heal all wounds from divorce? >> i think it probably-- i think what time does is it causes you to forget, and that's what it mostly does. >> rose: the separation from the anger. >> i don't think it's a question of wounds. i just think that divorce is tricky. it's constantly tricky. and it constantly throws up events that are tricky like, for example, the divorced bar mitzvah which fortunately i never had to go through. but that sort of thing is interesting. you know, most of us lead quiet lives. divorce is the drama. falling in love is the first drama.

and then getting divorced is the next drama. and that's about what we do. we don't-- we don't, you know, have car chases or take part in sensational murders. we just -- >> is divorce more interesting than marriage? probably. >> rose: probably because there's drama. >> well, falling in love is the most interesting because it's the most full of hope. >> rose: over experience, as we say. >> yeah. >> rose: second marriages are a triumph of hope over experience. now, when you were divorced, did you go in search of a certain kind of man who was different? >> no. i don't know about that. maybe. possibly. >> rose: or it just happened. >> well, you always hope. i mean, there's a piece in the book about failure. >> rose: right. >> and one of things that you always hope you will get from any kind of failure-- whether it's a movie that didn't work or a marriage that doesn't work--

is a lesson. you know, people are always writing books about growth through failure. >> rose: yes. >> and i don't actually think-- i think that one of the worst things about failure is that you don't learn the lesson you would like to learn which is how to never have another failure again. this is-- this is what we really want. no one is interested in failure having once had it. >> rose: do you learn more from failure than success which is the age-old question? >> all i think you learn from failure, honest to god, is it's entirely possible you could have another one. honestly. i don't think you get much more than that. you can get a bad lesson from it which is that you might think it's not worth trying to do whatever it was you did in the first place. but the last thing you want to learn from a failure is to be reluctant to get back up on whatever metaphor you want to get back up on-- the horse or

the bicycle or whatever. >> rose: all right. whatever metaphor works. this is for richard and monart mutual friends. richard cohen and monart backer. >> don't you say that three times a week. >> rose: because of my age. >> i began saying it when i was much younger, but as you get older you really do remember nothing. you really have entire sections of your life that have floated away in some sort of never way, and every so often you know your friends say, "you know what you always say about" something. something you never said. you're pretty sure you never said, and if you said it, you said it better than they're quoting it to you. people are constantly telling you about night you don't remember -- >> but somebody can say something that will trigle it

and it will come rushing back. >> not really. you know when you go to a movie you've seen before and it's completely new. it's completely shocking. >> rose: that's true, actually, and sometimes it's better than the one you had awe choice to watch, which were new. often it is that way. you forgot your own sister. >> well, yes -- >> in a mall. >> but it wasn't my fault. >> rose: oh, really? >> this is what you always say. i was in a mall and a woman came toward me with her arms outstretched and i thought -- >> who is that crazy woman? >> no, i thought who is that pleasant-looking woman. i know her. i like her. if only i could get her name and it was my sister. and you could say how did you know she was going to be in this mall which was in las vegas. and my answer is i was meeting her in the mall. so then you always say to the person, "you've changed your hair or something like that. i was very upset when this happened. and i called up my sister dealia

and said i didn't recognize amy yesterday in the mall superpower she said, that happens to me with amy, too." so dealia and i kind of decided it was amy's fault. >> rose: she's humoring you. >> she was totally. >> rose: if something funny happens to you, something you want to share, is dealia the first call? >> often, yes. dealia is-- well, she's-- she thinks i'm funny, so i usually call her. >> rose: so do i. >> thank you. i'd call you, but you're busy. >> rose: no, call me, anyway. i'll be unbusy for you. so back to good marriages. we'll talk about divorce in a minute, but what's great about good marriages? define them for me. >> a good marriage? >> rose: that's a subject that would fit right in here. >> well, you know, i have friends who actually got it right the first time, and i am in awe of them. >> rose: what did they get? what makes it right? >> i don't know, and we knew we could bottle it and we would never make the mistake, right.

but for me, a good-- it's one of the things i tried to do in "julia and julia," was about a marriage instead of just falling in love and about the comfort and ease and being home. home i think is a key thing about a marriage. >> rose: having a shelter. having a-- >> well, just feeling that you're safe. >> rose: a safe haven. >> feeling safe, yeah. >> rose: some people suggest that nick, your fabulous husband, is part of him is in the character of-- that stanley plays. >> i might have been the person to suggest that. there's no telling. who can remember? but i did say that, yes, absolutely. >> rose: other than memory, anything else wrong with getting older? >> other than-- anything else wrong? is there anything write getting older? >> rose: wisdom. >> oh, wisdom when you can't remember anything is not quite there. >> rose: it's not that bad! >> having more time to read when

you can't see. >> rose: this is comic fodder for you. it's not that bad. >> i don't know, charlie. i don't think it's better to be older. i don't. >> rose: no, no, i don't think so, either, but i think it doesn't have to be bad. >> no, it doesn't have to be bad. and you have to know-- but you have to know that at some point it will be. >> rose: oh, sure. >> and sooner rather than later. >> rose: this is-- >> which is why it's very important to eat your last meal before it actually comes up. >> rose: tell that story as how you came to that conclusion. >> well, -- >> oh, i know what it was your friend. >> my good friend who was -- >> who no longer could eat a hot dog. >> well, she could no longer eat. special she said, "i can't even have my last meal." that's what happens. but to be serious for a moment, as they say in the jokes-- when you are actually going to have your last meal, you either will be too sick to have it or you aren't going to know it's your

last meal and you could squander it on something like a tuna melt. and that would be ironic. so it's important-- we all play these games at dinner with friends where we go around the table and we say, "this is what i would have for my last meal." and it's-- i feel it's important to have that last meal at least once -- >> today. >> today, tomorrow, soon. >> rose: so what you have as your last meet mealmy last meal really is a hot dog. >> rose: just because it's the most delicious thing you've ever eaten. >> well, you know a hot dog is just -- >> a hot dog is a hot dog. >> especially if it has the right bun, the right mustard -- >> you don't put sauerkraut on it, do you? >> i have. mostly mustard. >> rose: what kind of mustard do you like? >> golden's. >> rose: not some fancy fresh stuff for you. >> no, not on a hot dog. >> rose: not on a hot dog, no!

do people-- if you're getting older, you don't really realize-- you think you're young. forever young. until a certain moment and once you can't walk or something. >> yes, but you know you're not. you know you're not. >> rose: you don't see yourself the way young people see you. >> i remember so clearly being at lunch somewhere and seeing this table of four women who were in their 60s, and they were the chag in a very animated way, and i remember thinking, oh,! oh look how much fun you can have when you're old. and i'm sure i'm way older than them. you have no imagine auction at all when you're young about the fact that people who are older are the same people they were except that they avoid looking in the mirror at all times. >> rose: your mind does tricks on you on that. >> yeah. >> rose: what else are you doing? have you made a commitment to do it now? >> yes, absolutely. >> rose: tell me how.

>> well, not every day. i have to say that i don't get it right every day, but i do try to have a rule called "is this what i want to do today? am i doing what i really feel like doing?" and as i say, you can't do that every day. some days you have to go to the dentist and there's just no way around it. >> rose: teeth are important, you know. so what else do you do today? what are the kinds things that you have said? you do good things. do you say, look, i want to make sure i do some good things before i leave? >> yes, i have done-- just today i wrote some check that i felt were good things because it's the end of the year and it's time to do things like that. and -- >> call up a friend and say, "just thinking about you. how are you?" >> yes, i sent a friend, actually, a cookie that i found last week in san francisco that may be the greatest cookie ever invented. >> rose: this is you right

there. you found a cookie in san francisco. >> yeah. >> rose: you immediately decided this is the greatest one i've ever seen invented. >> it is. >> rose: and i'm going to buy and give it to a friend. >> i'm sorry i didn't bring them to you. i don't know about you and keeks. >> rose: no are that's not something i care a whole lot about. how did you come to this idea that this is what you wanted to right about? it just seemed right? >> probably i started with the title. >> rose: that right? "i remember nothing" and then you were off on a riff. >> i had written i feel bad about my neck and i knew there was more to say because there is a certain point where you feel nostalgic for a good time when you felt-- only felt bad your neck. when you really do-- there's a difference when you get to a certain point-- you haven't gotten there yet, but call me when you do. >> rose: for sme. >> i'll tell you some really-- well, you don't have to worry

about your elbows, like the rest of us do. >> rose: what does that mean? >> you don't wear-- you don't have sleeveless things in your closet that you look at as a kind of sad reminder of what you can no long lacquerware. >> rose: that's exactly right. there's also a list call, "things i won't miss," and "things i'll miss. who's on your list. >> who's on my list? all the people on fox are people i won't miss. >> rose: you mentioned also one of my friends which you didn't like repiecing. jay-z. >> i said there comes a point in yu life where there are certain things that you simply hope you don't have to ever learn about. and you sort of erect a little mental wall against them. like -- >> so it does not take up brain space. >> you know, it's like that occasional country that comes up that you think, do i have to learn the name of the head of

them? the kardasians? do we have to know the difference among them. >> rose: tell me why she is who she is? >> who-- i don't know, but the point is i don't want to know because i don't have room for the kardasians, and i'm sure jay-z is great, but i don't have room for him, either. >> rose: i'm sorry to hear that. >> he doesn't have room for me so don't feel bad about it. >> rose: and he's doing quite fine and so are you. it doesn't have to happen. what is it that you are doing today that-- >> a thing i'm going to miss after i'm dead is bacon. >> rose: why is so much of what you think about food? >> because it is one of the great pleasures, and especially as you get older, it-- i think about it-- i think about what-- i wake up and i think about what i'm going to eat. i think after i eat it, i think

was that a good thing to have eaten? and now what am i going to eat next? this is-- i love food. >> rose: now, do you also love restaurants and did you search out restaurantses? the reason i ask that is because i want your phone number. whenever i go out to eat i always want to eat somewhere new. >> i don't. i want to go to the same old places and have the same old thing. yeah. >> rose: there's also in this book poignancy, if that's the right word. >> uh-huh. >> rose: you discovered that your mother almost overnight was drinking a lot. >> yes. like a lot of children of alcoholics because i think a lot of alcoholics sort of hide what happens. >> rose: she didn't just become an alcoholic overnight. you just discovered it overnight? >> i don't know. it's one of the in thes. it's one of the real mysteries. i'll tell you one of the most disappointing mysteries, one of the most disappointing things is if you are a child of alcoholics

you spend a long time trying to figure out why your parents became an alcoholic. and you have a lot of theories about it. you have a lot of stories. was it because of this? was it because of that? and now, of course, what we know is that it's pretty much genetic. there's no story. and that's probably what happened with my mother, that she was from a family of alcoholics, and it got her at a certain point. but, before that, she had been such a powerful figure in my life, and, of course, she remained a powerful figure. she's still a powerful figure in my life. i still hope she'll read my book if you know what i mean. >> rose: was it your mother when she was on her death bed said to you, "write it down?" >> she said, "you're a reporter, nora. take notes." she told us all an amazing story about how she had thrown young willy and ross, a great, great

writer, from the "new yorker" who came to our house and saw a picture of me and my three sisters and said to my mother, "are these your children?" and my mother said, "yes." and she said, "do you ever see them?" and my mother made her leave because she felt-- and we all felt. we all grew up with this story and it was like how dare lillian ross question the possible that you couldn't have a career because my mother was a screenwriter, and children? and you know this is what we'd grown up on, that you could do everything. you could be anything you wanted. then, of course, i got a little older and thought this story is just too good by half. whoever -- >> the skeptic in you crept in. >> we all know that we don't always get a chance to say the thing we really meant to say at the moment we meant to say it. and then i met lillian ross, and

it is a story in the book. >> rose: just give me the punch line. >> and asked what actually happened. >> rose: and you realized your mother told the truth. >> i think she did, yes, or a pretty good version of it, which is all you can ask for. >> rose: what of your mother is in you? >> well, my mother loved food, too. she did. she loved her kids. >> rose: loved to write. >> she loved to write. she understood and really conveyed to us that work was, qln, the great-- a great passion. that you couldn't live without work, that that's-- when you were asked what--, "what are you going to be when you grow up?" the question was answered in terms of work, not in terms of motherhood or, you know, being married. it was, "what are you going to do?" >> rose: is that the way you define it? >> the great passion?

>> rose: yeah. >> probably, probably. . >> rose: and journalism, tell me about your-- the arc of your-- your attitude about journalism. >> oh, i think -- >> why are you look at me? you know i know what you're going to say. >> well, because journalism is something i was as deeply in love with as anything i had ever been in love with. it was so romantic. i had grown up not-- not seeing the great movies because they weren't reshowing them on television when i was a kid yet, but the aura of the front page and even in "superman" even in "superman" on television, lois lane and the daily planet, it looked like a great job, and it is the greatest job. >> rose: and it was. you liked the stories you covered. you liked the idea of doing it. >> i loved it. >> rose: you liked the prosprs of doing it. you liked the people who did it. >> i think it is a fantastic job. now i kind of look back on it

the way you look back on someone you were once in love with that you bump into and you think what did i ever see in him? >> rose: i know. >> as you get a little wiser-- and, you know, the pretensions of journalism when i was young and still, you know are, the pretensions to truth, i really did think that when you wrote a story, you were writing the truth. it was a complete, you know -- >> there's a suggestion here you used to believe when people said they were misquoted it simply was not true. they were lying. now you believe it's possible they're telling the truth, that they were in fact misquoted and maybe they had been and probably they were. >> well, for sure we've all been misquoted. for sure we have all been misquoted and that one word is left out that makes it funny or doesn't make it funny. >> rose: since you have been the object of many, many stories what is it about-- that's written about you that drives

you crazy? let your candor kick in. >> you know, i-- i think you always feel that every so often, somebody gets you in some way or other. but that-- well, i mean, one of the things i know is that people are so complicated, i don't know how anyone can ever attempt to get anyone, much less those of white house -- >> tell me when something got you, and what they got. >> oh. i can't think of it. because i don't think about it. >> rose: who was it and then i'll go look it up. >> i don't know. i don't know. is there a misconception about you? >> i don't think about that stuff. you know, i'm just typing. >> rose: is it getting easier? >> no, it's not getting easier, no. >> rose: because it's comedy or what? >> no i think as you get older, you don't want to repeat

yourself. i mean, that's one of the things that i felt, you know, even after five years at the "new york post" when i was, what, 26 or 27 years old. i thought oh, i've covered this before. i know the lead to this story. how do i do it in a way that's different? i think that-- i think that keeping yourself fresh is-- is a difficult thing in the aging process, and finding things that are hard for you is something that you have to do or else you just repeat yourself. >> rose: or else you don't grow? >> yeah. >> rose: when did you first know that beyond writing and beyond writing screenplays what you really wanted to do, whicheems to be the passion of your time, is to make movies? >> oh, i think-- i think it was a total accident. >> rose: it wasn't that you knew mike nichols and you said, "i

want to be mike nichols"? >> no, i didn't have that at all. there was a certain moment when i knew that i had to write movies in order to make enough money to live as a writer in new york city and not have to move to some place like new jersey. >> rose: nothing wrong with living in new jersey. >> i'm just saying you don't live there and i don't live there there. >> rose: well, that's true. it would have been okay but it wasn't what i had in mind. >> rose: you had in mind what? did you have in mind what you do now would be your life's work? >> no, no. in the end i thought i was just going to be a journalist forever. >> rose: and then you turned on journalism and then -- >> but then movies came along, and first of all, they paid fairly well. and then one of them was made "silkwood." >> rose: right. >> and mike nichols of the the the director, and he allowed me and alex arlen to watch everything-- the casting process. you can't imagine what that is

like watching actors in to read for mike nichols. you can't imagine. >> rose: tell us what's so-- >> because he is the greatest director and because he knows exactly what to say to actors to get them to adjust and because he has an infallable eye about casting. and so i got to watch that. d i thought, well, this is interesting. i don't know anything about this. i think i'll do this for a while. and then at a certain point, when it was clear to me that if i was going to write movies about women , i didn't know who was going to direct them. i thought well, i better become a director because it's going it save my writing career. >> rose: did you go to mike nichols and say, "what do i need to do to become a director?" >> yes, i did. i went to him. i went to every single director i knew and they all gave me advice. >> rose: was it good? >> yes. >> rose: did you write that

down? >> no. >> rose: i thought you wrote everything down? >> no, i don't write everything down. if i did, i'd remember something. >> rose: you don't go home and keep a diary. >> no, and you know why i don't? because i already know it. do you see what i mean? you sit there and think why am i writing this down because i know this. >> rose: because of what your mother said. >> if my mother had said, "sit down everyone night and write what you did today." that would be one day. she didn't say that. >> rose: i just want to you remember this. i want to tap into your nostalgia. >> yes. >> rose: roll tape. >> oh, no! >> do you have any time? >> i can talk to you onier break or something. >> i can't. >> just for a couple of minute? >> maybe next week.

>> are you monitoring yourself, karen? >> yes, georgie. >> i hope you write it down in your little notebook every time you don't. along with that stuff about the rest of us! ( sirep ) >> oh, no! >> let's be sensible. we're happy now. if we get married we'll ruin everything. the minute you get married you start to drive each other crazy. >> it will never happen with us. >> why not? >> because you already drive me crazy. >> you're saying you're having sex with these men without my knowledge? >> i'm saying they all want to have sex with you. >> they do not. >> do to. >> they do not. >> do too. >> how do you know? >> no man could be fwrand woman he finds attractive. he always wants to have sex with her. >> so you're saying a man can be friends with a woman he finds

unattractive? >> no, you pretty much want to nail them, too. >> i just want somebody i can have a decent conversation with over dinner without it falling down into weepy tears over some movie that you just saw although i cry at the end of the "dirty dozen." >> who doesn't. >> jim brown throwing hand grenades down the aircraft, and lee marvin sitting on top of the armored personnel carrier dressed up like... ( crying ) >> triny lopez... he busted his neck when parachuting down behind nazi lines. >> joe, just call me joe. as if you're one of those stupid 22-year-old girls with no last name. hi, i'm kimberly. hi, i'm janice. don't they know you're supposed to have a last name. it's like an entire generation of cocktail waitresses. >> let's make love in a hot air balloon. let's make love in a petty zoo. in seaworld on the back of a killer whale. >> it doesn't mean anything.

>> pearls, wearing pearls in the. >> i'm julia child. bon appetite. >> bon appetite. >> how is that for a march through nostalgia? >> that was fun to watch. actors are so amazing. you know, i was on the set the day that merrill shot that scene where she mon-- she actually fell to the floor, and that's not in the script. you know, what they-- what they do to make a scene work is never in the script. it's -- >> that's talent. >> yeah. well it's what-- it's one of things i learned as i was watching-- as rob ryanner and mike nichols let me watch what was happening on the set because

you can write a scene that can be-- it can be a pretty good scene, but what makes it funny is what the actors do. >> rose: then finish this sentence for me, "the best directors...". >> the best directors love actors. >> rose: the book is called "i remember nothing," nora ephron. subtitle and other reflections. she's quite a woman. congratulations. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> this is our invitation inviting you to join us on wednesday december 8 right here for a conversation with jay-z recorded at the brooklyn museum in new york on november 18.