tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, my conversation with a legislate -- a legendary musician, patti smikth. -- smith. she released a book which won an award for non-fiction. "just kids." my conversation with music coming uptti smith', right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy

and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: i am pleased to welcome patti smith to this program. the legendary performer has just released "just kids," a heart felt memoir. it is an honor to have you on this program. >> thanks. tavis: first of all, put that

picture backup of the cover. i want you to tell me about this vote -- photo. tell me about it. >> well, it was -- robert and i met in 1967, so this was our anniversary, september 1, 1969. we wanted to go to coney island for our anniversary. we both loved coney island, and in the back, in fact, when i saw the picture, i saw the word "heroes," and i said, "is that not a great?" and he said, "patti, a heroe is a sandwich." [laughter]

that picture documented a very happy day for robert and i, and when i look at it, it still makes me happy. tavis: you talk about earlier in your career, at one point, there was an attempt by the record industry to make you a harder edged verison of cher. >> that was an earlier record company in 1971. quite a good deal, quite a lot of money. i was not really interested in that, so in 1975, i went with clive davis, who had his own idea about me, but clive always

had a weakness for artists like myself. they were talking more that they wanted me to wear something like a motorcycle jacket and sing rock-and-roll songs, but in 1971, i was not ready for that. i did that in my own time. tavis: this is one of the most beautifully written -- >> oh, thank you. tavis: you are a poet, obviously, but you're writing -- there is a flow to it -- but your writing, there is a flow to it. >> i only wrote about things i loved in the book. i did not waste my time writing about things that i did not love. people around us. and i think when you have love and magic compelling you, --

tavis: even the way you talk, it is poetic. it is just a beautiful thing. "love and magic compelling you." i want to ask you why it is you think there is something for us to learn or to marinade on about your relationship, but first, tell me about robert -- or to mari-- >> he was an artist. those are the simplest words i can use to describe robert. not a photographer. all of the different adjectives

used for him can be distilled down to say that he was a true artist. one thing i hope the book will do is, one, i promised robert that i would write this book before i died. -- before he died -- before i died. i promised him i would write our story. sometimes, when you are writing poetry, you are doing something very obscure, and you are not so concerned with the listener or the reader. i was hoping that this book might inspire people and give them hope. it is about two young people who started with nothing but believed in each other. everything robert had to go through, the awakening of homosexuality, and how we had to deal with bad -- with that as

lovers and friends, struggling, not having things to each. i am just hoping it will be helpful to new generations, and maybe nice memories bring out nice memories for the older generation. tavis: i appreciate that. tell me how you navigated just appear nature of the relationship. you started as friends. -- just the pure nature of the relationship. the roller-coaster of the relationship. >> well, robert and i started almost immediately as boyfriend and girlfriend. in 1967, we did not even use the term "lovers." he was my boyfriend. we had a very classic, traditional relationship, physically and emotionally.

we were together. but after about 1.5 years or one year, robert -- any feelings he had, you know, about his nature he had either suppressed because he was a catholic boy, an altar boy -- he was in rotc, a military man was his father. people were still keeping their persuasions hidden, and it just got to the point where he could not hide it or suppress it anymore, but he really did not want us to break up. we were really happy with one another, and it caused us a certain amount of pain. we had our normal -- it was not where we were fighting or yelling at each other.

he even, to his credit, in 1969, after exploring, you know, all aspects of his desires really wanted us to try again, and we tried again for almost a year, but he was who he was. his nature was what it was, but we had something so beautiful worth saving. the physical aspect of a relationship is beautiful, but we had something that was so much more enduring that i still have. tavis: mm-hmm. >> i still feel the confidence that he gave me, things that i learned about myself and being an artist. so, you know, it took a lot of

mutual help. we helped each other to ride these things, but the fact of the matter was is that we have a lot more than the physical relationship. tavis: it got really interesting. i am trying to imagine how i would feel in a relationship with a woman that i absolutely adored and loved and discovered that she was a lesbian and was leading me for another woman. -- leaving me for another woman. >> one cannot forget that i was the only person that suffered. sometimes i think it was more

painful for robert. you know, of course, it was a strain for him to be able to express his deeper nature, but, believe me, he suffered as much as i did. it was not a simple thing, but because we had a deep commune as artists and helped each other evolves as human beings, we were able to surmount it. if we had not had that, perhaps we would have totally gone our separate ways. tavis: there is a beautiful phrase that you uttered that i have been holding on to since i discovered a few weeks ago, and that is that each of us has to dig down, down, down and find

the confident part. >> yes. tavis: tell me more about that. >> i have always loved art. i was skinny. i grew up in rural south jersey. i had bad skin and greasy -- i was not popular with the boys. robert was a gifted draftsman, very gifted. i struggled with my poems. i struggled with my drawing. i was sort of self-conscious, and robert, he was shy and sometimes inarticulate, but he did not lack confidence, and robert would not rest until he

instilled the confidence that he had in himself in me, and his belief in himself was so unshakable, and he equated his belief in the equally, so it sounds -- eventually, he was successful in making me feel like i was really worth something, that i was not being a muse as a beautiful thing, but he was both muse and maker. i have never lost it. i have had tragedy in my life. i have not wanted to get out of bed. i have gone through a lot of difficult things, but i never lost that confidence that he instilled in me, and right now, it is blossoming. tavis: your comment a moment ago that there were days when you

felt like you did not want to get out of bed. i'm fascinated by your confession that the day, i am paraphrasing, a day is not complete for you unless you create something, so before you go to bed, you have to look out on that day and see something that you have created in that day. >> i have just been like that since i was really young. it is almost as if i made a vow to myself. i have to do something every day to sort of proves my words, because even though -- to prove my -- i have to do something every day to sort of prove my worth. i feel that every day, i have to show some human worth, something i have done, you know, if i have not done something politically to help my fellow man, at least

i have taken an interesting photograph. these gifts i have been given, because i believe gives our god- given, however you want to describe god, whether it is metaphysical, it is a special thing. it has to be exercised and nourished. to write a paragraph or work on a book or take a picture, at least express something that says i was alive today. i always think of this jimi hendrix line, which i love. i forget how it starts out, but it goes -- i feel that it is great, i have got another day, i can experience something. i am going to read another book. i am going to experience something wonderful. tavis: always another chance to

get it right. you mentioned got a moment ago. -- god a moment ago. when you say that each of us has a capacity to an may god, what do you mean by that? >> -- to animate god, what do you mean by that? >> maybe i have a snobby believe thatut i being a poet or a true artist is a special god-given thing, but that does not mean that the creative impulse is just there for artists and poets. it is there for every man, and how we animate it is up to us. whether it is nature or god, whatever you want to call it. rock-and-roll is the one are to

that america has given the world. -- the one art that america has given the world. to write a song or to feel it or to express themselves, and we also live in an era where a lot of people are spreading themselves. tavis: indeed, we do. there was a point in your career, and i will go back to the early point of your career in a moment, but there was a point in your career where you basically said, "i am not selling out. punk rock is just another word for freedom." >> yes. tavis: is soul music another

form of freedom? >> yes, it applies to any music. because i have a success with the song that i worked with bruce on, people would say, "oh, you sold out," and i thought that was stupid. i specifically reacted to them saying that "that song is not punk rock." to me, punk rock is a state of mind. but it is also just a phrase. i want to be free of all phrases, including "punk rock." i will do what i want, not without conscience or without a sense of responsibility, but i

want to do with the way i see fit. tavis: i am trying to intimate -- animate that in my own life. when did you really feel like you were moving at the pace you wanted to? robert tease you about the fact that you became famous first -- robert teased you. >> well, i am not a musician. i am a performer. and, you know, in the course of performing, i have learned to sing, and i have a pretty good year, but i do not call myself a musician -- i have a pretty good ear. my goals were really sort of esthetically political. what i wanted to do was merge poetry with rock and roll in the

way that jimmy hendrix or jim morrison or bob dylan had. i wanted to continue that hatdition -- the way btht jimi hendrix did. and i wanted to help remind people that rock-and-roll was our country full voice -- cultural voice and that we could all animate that aspect of ourselves. i thought i had achieved that already in "horses.' " clive davis had offered me to do more records, and he believed in what i was doing. i wound up doing a few more.

certainly by easter, i had accomplished what robert really wanted for me, to have sort of a hit record, because robert was joking that i got a little famous before him, and he certainly caught up with me. i was so happy for him, really, because he wanted that for me. i had my band, and i have a certain amount of space for the new guard. -- had a certain amount of space. it would give people some things to think about, and between "horses" and the other, i thought i had done my job. tavis: every song writer that thinks of himself or herself as a poet of sorts -- what do you

think that you did it uniquely different? what did you do uniquely different, patti, in terms of marion your poetry with music -- marrying your poetry with music? >> there was building and keeping and maintaining a sense of improvisation. right from the start, we started working with records -- with three chords, and that allowed me to emprise -- to improvise. in "horses," there is a lot of improvisation, and i have maintained that right from the beginning. there is one that had a 14- minute in proposition, where the

language is complete improvised in the studio, "radio baghdad." giving me the chance to present songs like this that are not structured, where i use people like coltranae ane and jimi hendrix. god bless smokey robinson. i do not have his gift to write songs like that. but i do have a gift to go out there and hopefully speak to god a little bit and give it to the people. and that is what i and my

musicians have done. tavis: there you go withpoetry . i only have 20 seconds left. the lesson for you that this is out now, it came when it was supposed to come, the lesson? >> i do not know what lesson. it is just the truth. robert asked me to do this 20 years ago, and just fade and design, -- fate and design, and people are welcoming it, and it just makes me very happy. tavis: you should be. it is a wonderful read. when patti smith puts her fingers to it, that is what you get. nice to have you on the program.

>> i am so happy. sorry. tavis: i am happy having you here. i hope you are happy at home. that is our show. i will see you back here next time on pbs. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i am tavis smiley. join me next time. join me for a singer next time. we will see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy

and and remove obstacles of economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org- >> be more. pbs. >> be more. pbs.