tavis: good evening from los angeles. first up tonight, a conversation with a two-time oscar winner kevin spacey, widely regarded as one of the best actors of his generation. "casino jack" tells the story of jack abramoff. also amy adams is here, she is once again a possible nominee for her latest film "the fighter." actors kevin spacey and amy adams coming up. >> he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. nationwide insurance is proud

to work with tavis smiley and remove iliteracy. >> and from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: thank you, sir. always pleased to welcome kevin spacey to this program, the two-time oscar winner is also a very successful producer and theater director. his lathe oast film is called "casino jack" based on the real life story of lobbyist jack abram-off. >> and here -- and here a scene from "casino jack."

>> it's an all-cash business. use your imagination, adam because i've got plans. >> plans like bugsy malone. public education sucks. you have no idea what kids have to deal with. >> your own school? >> plus there's my foundation. i'm trying to do important stuff that matters to people. >> i -- i don't know, jack. i don't want to see charlie manson as my cell mate. i'm going to say no. but thanks for the $65 steak. it was delicious. >> you're trying to spin him as a modern day robinhood? >> maybe in his own mind he was the orthodox robinhood, yeah. >> actually that's a very interesting point because when i started doing research for the role, you know, let's face

it, abram-off was -- abramoff was the devil incarnate, the greediest man that ever faced the earth. except when i then found out ok, what did he do with all the money? was there a big boat? was there a jet? was there a family vacation? no, he wasn't even paying his mortgage. so he was giving away a lot of the money. he was doing things that i think in his mind justified it. that were not kosher. tavis: who gets themselves seriously into that much trouble trying to do as you might put it that much good? >> well, i'm not saying that he was trying to do that much good in terms of the lobbying industry, obviously, lobbyists now wield a tremendous amount of power, influence, and money into our political campaigns. and i think it really damages

the respect that people have for public service. so with respect to what he was doing there and he was trying to influence and do what he believed everyone was doing on k street which was selling access. if you nut this bill in congress or you vote in this particular way, my clients will give you a tremendous amount of money for you campaign. >> but the end result for him what i meant by doing this kind of good, the school, the stuff you talked about in the scene. if the end result in the end game was to do all of this, to engage in all this feverry to build a school or some other kind of gesture, who gets themselves in that much trouble to end up being -- >> look, that's what's interesting in playing a character like this is trying to figure out the complexities. obviously, it's not black and white as it was portrayed.

i think he was living in a culture in which this kind of thing was happening all over town. so from his perspective, maybe he was making it bigger and bert and louder than anyone else. but he wasn't living in a different world than the world that still exists. but to some degree, an argument can be made that they threw him under the bus to make it seem like they cleaned up the lobbying business. we just had an election -- jon le vits scene was me. tavis: you're pretty good. >> have it my way! tavis: what is there to learn -- i'm trying to put two questions together, what's there to learn on one hand and what's the challenge for you in teaching us what we think we already know about a story that's been covered in real life as much as this one has been covered? >> well, maybe i probably suspects for most people outside of the beltway or people who are absolute

political junkies, most people don't tpwhow jack abramoff is. so you try not to make an insular film. that's number one. number two is to try to find a way to portray someone who has been in many ways turned into a cark i can chur into a -- caricature into a three dimensional human being. you try to portray someone who's -- oh, i'm going to play a villainous guy. we lost our director who passed away at the age of 47, but george had a mantra, i want to make "good fellows." he wanted to bring a new

energy. he and i met abramoff in prison before we started shooting. and we both discovered that this was a remarkably charming guy and very funny guy. >> you could actually see why at the peak of his power, he could own a room, he was the most successful republican lobbyist in the history of d.c. so you're trying -- to a certain degree -- i made a film called "recount" for hbo. you can hear the yawning across the country. but the choices that these characters make, the outrageousness of the situation. you can't write this stuff. and i think therefore it is inherently funny. there are some parts of it, you laugh because you cannot believe that this stuff is really going down. tavis: if my research is correct -- >> and it probably isn't. tavis: in this meeting that you had with mr. abramoff in

prison. the story is that he tries to talk you out of doing the film. >> it's true only that i wasn't there for that particular one. when george sat with him he apparently did spend a good portion not making the movie. but then when i realized that we were going to make the movie, i think he realized that it's better to become a source. for me it was really helpful because i was trying to figure out the emotional journey, how do you get to that place where he gets to that place? how did it affect his family? tavis: who doesn't want a film made about him if kevin spacey is going to play you, number one? >> i think he was disappointed that it wasn't george clooney.

tavis: if kevin spacey is going to play you, who doesn't want a movie? but if there is a complexity to your character and there's more to you than the american public thinks about you, why would you not want that? there's a chance to see who you are? >> yes, you have to understand from his perspective or his family's perspective, this man went from years and years and years from being absolutely vilified really thrown usheds a couple of bus and trains. we were to fall in live line with the mythology that built up. we actually showed the picture of the famous hat. when you finally discover what that was about, first of all, he wore it all the time. he wore that hat to hide his yam -- yeah my -- yamica.

that day it was raining. tavis: it reminds me of dukakis -- >> you know you're getting into a tank. tavis: yeah, just a bad picture of mr. dukakis, but i digress. speaking of dukakis and politics, did you come away -- did you come away with am different view about this process in washington that lobbyists so control? >> it's corrupt and it's filled with hypocrisy. we do a film where abramoff was dragged in front of john mccain in a senate hearing. the scene ends up in a certain way in the movie. and it ended that way because abramoff told me that if he would have known that he was going to go to jail that he

wouldn't have taken the fifth. what would that scene be like if he didn't take the fifth in front of the senate. i suppose what it underscores is here was mccain pointing fingers at this guy, when mccain himself had taken a lot of money from competing indian casinos to do the very thing that abram-off was trying to do -- abramoff was trying to do and the idea that these guys weren't in this it's process, weren't taking that amount of money, there they were pointing the finger. i think that points out the hypocrisy going around in this town. if we're going to leave cleaning up, either the campaign reform or the lobbying indust to the politicians, nothing's going to happen. tavis: so to your point if congress isn't qualified to deal with this, if the white house isn't qualified to deal with it, how are we going to clean this up? >> a lot of people attacked me

for this and said i was an idiot and i obviously didn't understand and haven't thought it through. what is the reason that all this money is being raised? what's the single reason? it's television. you to buy television ads. that's what it's all about, raising the money to buy the television ads. now why don't the networks run the ads for nothing? why don't they use it as public service for the citizens of this country? the question now becomes, all right, who then vets the ads? what's interesting about political ads is they don't have to be true. you say something about a candidate that's absolutely not true and you can imply something. it goes out on the air waves and we may find out months and months that it's not true. why has -- if you want to take the corruption out, take the money away.

now, obviously there is complexities to that. but just as an idea, why can't we look at a way in which we can vet our candidates in an honest way and not have it be about having to raise so much money because that's what happens now. someone gets elected and the next day they're raising money. tavis: i don't know who calls you an idiot. i don't think it's an idiot suggestion. i think the problem is and you hit it on the head. there are two underlying factors that we have to accept. one is that the television networks are actually interested in public service in doing some public good. and i'm not so sure i believe that quite frankly. there's no evidence. there's comcast nbc emergencier that raises questions about what really is in the public interest. and secondly, i don't know that

the emergency public for as much as we complain about this is serious enough yet to really push back on this. >> it's easy to be cynical and throw up your hands and say, there's nothing question do and we look at it from afar. but you can change things in this country. and when people get together as country and as a people, we've seen enormous extraordinary change happen. so if people really want politics to be cleaned up, if they really want campaign reform, if they want the lobbying entry to not have the kind of influence it has, then they have to get angry enough and do something about it. tavis: there are something called money for airtime. in that case, we just wrap this conversation up and remind you, forget all of that just go see "casino jack" with p kevin spacey. good to see you, sir.

>> thank you. tavis: up next, actress, amy adams. stay with us. amy adams is a two-time oscar nominee who's notable films include "june bug" and "doubt." earlier this week she was nominated for a golden globe award with "the fighter." here's a scene from "the fighter." >> like what? >> like maybe you not showing up in time to train, like him trying to find you in a crack house when you're supposed to be at the airport. >> i'm sorry. i don't know who you are. why are you talking? >> i'm shar lean, we just meet. do we need to do this again? hi, i'm shar lean. >> hi. >> hi. >> hey, we're together.

>> some m.t.v. girl that works at a bar. >> what does shi know about boxing? >> i know they're going to vegas and getting paid to train. sounds a hell of a lot better than what you have him doing. tavis: i saw you glancing at the monster. what do you think when you -- at the monitor. what do you think when you see it? >> what i enjoy about that scene is melissa leo and his sisters, they really crack me up and the sisters. ever time they talked, it made me laugh. even being on the set makes me laugh. tavis: how does one go about researching about what it's like tom be a sassy bartender. >> it's based on a real life girl charlene fleming who's now

married to mickey ward. tavis: the storyline is? >> it's a story of mickey ward and his family. tavis: mickey and dickey. >> mickey and dickey and the mother alice who managed them sort of examined his life and his journey to championship. tavis: you were interested in doing a particular role, why? what got you interested? >> i mean, it was just a great role. david o'russell came to me with about 20 pages because they were working on her a little bit. i'd met him on another project and it was kind of a no-brainer. i really loved mark. wanted to work with him. had read with christian in "that melissa." and i wanted to work with him. tavis: that's the best kind of work. what's it like working with mark wahlberg? he's the man these days. >> he is the man.

that's what it's like working with him. he's powerful but humble. just really committed as an ok tor and as a creator. -- as a creator. i was at a q&a and he said, i'm a hustler. i wish i had a little bit of his hustle. i'm a little bit laid back. tavis: we were talking about the "60 minutes" profile. i think a lot of people got a chance to know -- you know the music. you know that part of the story. but i think people don't know to your point -- i mean, you said he was powerful. i understand the point you made. he really is powerful in a variety of ways. he's gaining power as a producer -- people are learning stuff about mark about the total package. >> yeah, he makes things happen.

he was like how do we fill the fights in three days? and he contacted hbo. and they came through. and it's amazing. that's what he does with everything. from the smallest thing to the biggest thing, he really -- he isn't afraid to put the hours in and the work in. i have a huge amount of respect for him. tavis: and the accent, did mr. wahlberg helped you with that? >> mark's not going to be the person who turns around and say, what are you doing? but i knew he wasn't going to let it get out of hands. so i felt very safe. tavis: are you making decisions and choices? the things you want to do, something you might want to reprieve, how are you hole listicically looking that -- whole listicically looking at this? >> i just had a baby -- tavis: seven months ago? >> yeah. i'm on the second film now

after having my daughter. so i think it's going to be a day-to-day process. and i'm lucky enough to get really interesting and diverse roles offered to me and i just hope that that continues and i -- i mean, i just want to keep expanding as an artist and really try new things but at the same time i absolutely love the work that i've done. i've just been really lucky. that's how i feel. i think it's a day-to-day process. tavis: is it working at all like you planned it or disagreement it would work or dramatically different? >> so dramatically different. i thought -- i won't tell kwlue i thought i would be doing because i wouldn't offend anybody -- tavis: come on. you're not going to offend anymore. >> i came out from dinner theater. i moved time-out l.a. and i was like let's just give

it a try, kind of what this particular choice has in store for me. and i've just been really, really lucky. you put the work in and the time, but ultimately, i met up with a really great manager right away and i just got really lucky. tavis: the first baby? >> yeah. tavis: so two questions -- how's motherhood? >> awesome. tavis: you loved it? >> i really love it, it's hard. tavis: more than acting? you better say yes. [laughter] tavis: that's not a trick question. >> it's just so -- they're completely different things. if anything, the reason i paused is because motherhood has made me enjoy acting more because i'm so -- tavis: that was my second question -- your psyche. >> i'm glad we can take about that. no, i took a pause because i

really love acting more now that i've had my daughter. i like the world more now that i have my daughter. tavis: i'm going to play devil's advocate. i just talked to a person who had a similar way. they said they see the world in a better way. playing devil's advocate, on the flip side, the world's such a dangerous place,. it's a tough place and you're turned on by these challenges. tell me why. >> because, i mean there are so many reasons, of course, i'm scared. more than anything i'm scared because i want to protect her. but it's -- the focus is off of me. and that is freedom they no longer am the most important thing in my life. you know, as much as i didn't want to admit before i had a

kid that i was maybe self-centered, i was so self-centered. i didn't realize how self-centered. my small day-to-day dramas are just so different. and now she's my priority. but yeah, i can't think about the dangerous place the world is. i walk into every environment. i'm walking in here and i'm like how do you baby-proof stairs like this? we were on an airplane a couple of days ago and it seemed that everybody was contagious and i was like -- yeah, it's scary but at the same time, she se -- i hope that i can be the kind of mom that she can be a benefit to the world and help to make the world a better place. i really hope that. no pressure, bobby joana. he's going to be like, you. tavis: i just did a q&a

recently. i was saying the thing i like most about hosting this show, but i go home every night feeling smarter. the reason for my self-centeredness is because i don't have a baby yet. i've got to get to work. >> i don't want to say anything. tavis: you don't want to say that but you said it anyway. the movie is called "the fighter" she stars alongside mark wahlberg, and a wonderful cast. good to have you. >> good to be here. thank you. tavis: that's our show for tonight. good night from los angeles. and as always keep the faith. >> he using a ballpoint pen. you don't like it that he takes three lumps of sugar in his tea. you don't like it that he likes frosty the snowman and you were letting that convince you of something terrible, terrible. well, i like frosty the snowman. and i think it's a good thing

that i love to teach history and that i might inspire children. and if you say i'm not fit to be a teacher then so be it. >> sit down. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: join me next time with robert duvall. that's next time. we'll see you then. >> all i know is his name is james and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference, you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports it was a smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide is happy to

improve literacy and working to improve empowerment one person at a time. >> and from contributions from viewers like you. thank you.