>> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a>> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. >> nationwide is on your side >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> amy chua is a professor of law at yale and author whose

books include "world on fire." the latest is "battle hymn of the tiger mother." she joins us from new haven, connecticut. >> thanks for having me. >> one would have to live under a rock to not hear about this tiger mom controversy. it seems every television network and major magazine does a story. you say you think you have been misunderstood by this controversy. >> the greatest misunderstanding is the idea that i wrote this as a parenting guide, trying to tell other people how to parent. i wrote this book in a moment of crisis. it is really more. it is supposed to be very funny. that is a misunderstanding. it is a self parody. some people get it and some

people do not. in has been difficult conveying what the book is supposed to be doing. >> you made a number of media appearances. i am curious why you think it has been difficult to get the message you wanted out. does the media have any complicity in that? >> the book was introduced to the public and an excerpt in the wall street journal under the headline, "why chinese mothers are superior." that is not my headline. on the cover of my book, it says the opposite. it is supposed to be about how chinese people are better at raising kids, but instead it is about how i was humbled by a 13 year-old. i am not going to complain. it has started an interesting conversation. this is a conversation that needed to happen. i feel it has taken a life of

its own. it is almost a catalyst of something that has to happen. i will read stuff about myself and my family. it just seems like people are projecting and it is about something else. there are definitely important issues of there. >> would you think this conversation needed to happen? what the make of the conversation that has happened? >> i think i got caught in this perfect storm. i wrote this book in a moment of crisis. i am trying to raise my kids the same way my chinese immigrant parents raised me. i think it worked really well with me. my parents were super strict, very tough with my three younger sisters and me, but i adore them. we have the best relationship. i feel like i owe them everything. i would not be the person i am today without my parents. i try to do this with my daughters, even though i am not an immigrant. that is part of the story. i was not able to replicate what

my parents did. my husband is not chinese. with one child, it worked smoothly. my second daughter came around, and there were fireworks and explosions. there are a lot of strengths to this kind of parenting. i will stand by them. but the main part of the story is that my daughter really rebelled, my second daughter, and i had to pull back. i wrote this book in a moment of crisis. but the book comes out and coincidentally there are these studies coming out that shanghai kids are testing better than the united states and all of the west. at the same time, there is this fear of china rising as a tiger. the u.s. is having a financial crisis. there is that anxiety. you couple this anxiety of china rising with every body's greatest fear, which is whether we're doing a good job as a parent. i think those came together. the rest is history. tavis: is there something --

obviously, there is. for those who have not read the book, what is the thing or things on the short list that makes parenting different or unique in a chinese family, as opposed to an african american family or somebody else? >> i am using the term chinese family very loosely. i think it is more of an immigrant thing. a lot of south asians and koreans, immigrants from nigeria and the caribbean -- i get the nicest e-mails from the population, people who say, "i could not stop laughing. this is exactly how i was raised. my dad was from ghana. he was very tough and said all these things. i owe him so much." the main difference is a huge emphasis on academic excellence. it is pretty tough. you get in 96 out of 100, where as lots of western kids get rewarded.

it would be, "where are the missing four points? it does not sound harsh to me. that is how i was raised. it was not like if you do not get a good grade i will not love you. the message was, "i believe in you. you can do better." that should be a real american theme. there is a lot of emphasis on hard work and discipline. some of the hours asian kids can put in an -- two hours a day of violent and pin and a practicing. i have to say i am a little surprised that i have had such an response to this. a friend just mentioned. some western parents are ok with their kids watching two or three hours of reality tv shows. you see teenagers getting pregnant. they are overdosing. they are really drunk.

parents are ok with that. but if you make your kid practice violin or drill math for two hours, that is unacceptable. that is monstrous. i have been in a little surprised by that, but it is true. i know you just came back from china. kids put in 5, 6, 7, 8 hours on the music or academic work. i think the biggest difference is self esteem. in general in the west, there is much more concern with your child's self-esteem. do not talk too harshly to them. protect them. my parents always assumed strength rather than fragility. the result is the parent a lot tougher. they do not let you give up. my younger daughter came back with a bad math test when she was about 10 and announced, "i

hate math. i am bad at math." i think a lot of more permissive families would be worried about self esteem and would say, "do not worry about it. you can be good at something else." i went the chinese way. i was like, "i do not believe you." i made these practice math tests and drove with her every night for a week. i had a stop watch. at the end of the week, she took the next test and did really well. guess what? her self-esteem went up. france said, "you are good at math." now this is one of her favorite subjects. it is a real question about the best way to instill strength and confidence in kids. tavis: i was in china not too long ago. i am headed back in a few months to do a special. it specifically relates to these issues. what makes the chinese people uniquely different from us,

given that we are hearing so much about china? so much of the conversation is about the economics, but not a lot about the people. it is a special for pbs. we are going back in may to start shooting. you offered, to my year, if i am hearing you -- you offered at least three cultures of persons you have heard from in e-mails telling you their stories about how they were raised. those stories you shared were stories in forcing the way you were raised. what you did not tell me, which i am curious about, is who you are getting the hate mail from. >> there is a lot of negative stuff out there. my daughters are better about it. i cannot even look on the internet. it is terrible. i know my kids were raised in a loving household. we are really close.

it is tougher, but we are really close. i have gotten really supportive e-mails from people of any race or ethnicity. german americans, irish americans -- lots of immigrants. the angry e-mails, i would say, come from people also of all backgrounds and races. there are some people misunderstand my book because the have not read it. some people were raised with really strict parents who may be read the excerpt and thought that i was saying everybody should parent like this, should only demand and a -- an a. this list was a parody, because a change in the book. i feel so bad. i get people saying, "i was raised with these parents. i know people who committed suicide. how can you advocate this?"

i feel heartbroken. in some ways, the book is about how i came to that point and realized i had to pull back. if at some point it is not working, you have to convey your love. nothing is more important than their happiness. i also get people who are very angry who i think are may be very hostile or fearful of china rising. i get strange e-mails like, "go back to china if you think you are so great." that is not what i am saying. i also get e-mails from people who perhaps are parents themselves. i am not trying to tell other people how to parent. i believe there are many ways of being a great parent. show me a kid that is happy, self-reliant, and strong, and i say you have good parenting. i do not care about good grades. you do not have to be

supervising are playing the violin. but people still are judging me very harshly. they are projecting all these things like, "i feel so sorry for your children. that is a little hard for me to take. my kids are thriving. they are huge personalities. tavis: let me ask you questions that are connected. how are your children handling all this controversy? you are not parenting alone. you are not a single parent. you are married to a person who is not chinese. you are married to a jewish white males. what has he said about all of this? >> you mentioned single parents. some of the nicest e-mails i have had our from kids of single parents who really get the book. they read the book and say, "my mom was a tiger mom. i am so proud of that."

they get my book. it is not about having two parents are playing the piano. the talk about things like, "my mom worked two jobs and would get home at 8, but no matter how exhausted she was, she would check over my test scores and would be tough on me. now i am in college. there are a lot of single moms who are tiger moms." my kids are doing in some ways better than me. when i read people saying terrible things about my family, that really upsets me. about me, i can take that. but the they have tons of friends. the can look through this awful internet stuff. defined two nice things and say, "here are the good things." my husband is a very strong personality and did not want to

be a character in my book. my kids grow up in a hybrid household. as i was being stripped, he was the guy that was always encouraging them to question authority, to be very independent, and to bring balance to the family. we're going to the park. we are going hiking. not my thing. at dangerous water parks, i was always worried it would hurt their hands for their instruments. but i would say maybe that is -- you mentioned china. the have all the strips of discipline. boy can the focus. but i think our kids should get some of that again. but they are looking at the west. they are looking to improve themselves, their education and parenting. they want to be more creative. they want to be a little bit more innovative. i think maybe we in the west are really strong with the independents and challenging authority and creativity,

thinking out of the box. maybe we have lost a little bit in terms of self discipline and respect for elders. there is a lot of rudeness and sullen behavior. kids are very untitled and spoiled. i did not want to raise kids like that. i do not think kids who are like that, who are just consumerist and demanding more and more -- i do not think they can grow up to be responsible people who can have good, loving, happy relationships, which is part of why i was strict with them. tavis: when i got a chance to read the book and read all the stuff about the book, i kind of laughed and myself. i have written 15 or 16 books. if the way to get to the top is to talk about strict hunt childhood, i cannot do you. i have nine brothers and sisters.

my mom watches the show every night. if you think your stories are strict, i am going to write my book about the smiley household. the point i am going to get to is this -- >> you are honest and i love that. tavis: i want to be frank about this. i said this, not professor amy chua. i think some of the reason you are getting pushed back on this is that so many parents these days are failing their kids. i said it and i mean it. i have a lot of friends. we have these debates all the time. i see my friends, who for a lot of reasons are failing their kids. they give them too much. they are too lenient with them. in communities of color, those of us who grew up with nothing do not want our kids to have nothing. i think for a lot of reasons parents are failing their kids. i wonder whether or not you think, having put my own point of view up there, that some of the push back you are getting

has to do with some parents who are working longer hours and concerned about their own careers who do not want to look in the mirror about how they are not doing as good a job as they could do. the last thing they want is chinese -- some chinese woman telling them how to raise their kids. >> i have been kind of hurt. i feel like i was honest with my book. i put the most extreme cases of -- i could have filled the book with all the living things i say all the time, which i do. i think every household, especially with teenagers are families with lots of kids -- who does not have harsh moments? thank you for saying that. i kind of put myself out there. but on your point, i just do not want to judge other people. but i really want to like what you are saying. when people criticize me massively and use terrible words like "monster," i feel like i

was trying my best. i am not proud of everything. but i put in the time. sometimes, i was really tired and i felt like, "i wish i could go the do a you the class -- a yoga class or have a glass of wine." instead i went to yell at my daughter, "your mouth is not good enough yet." i know it was good enough for her. it was hard to be hated or disliked by somebody you love and know you are doing it for them. they do not think you know that, but that is because they are children. i appreciate your words. it resonates for me. tavis: i appreciate your comment. i was not seen it to pump you up. i just see these debates all the time. i am on the road all the time. i have a foundation that works with children. i talk with parents all the

time. the kids that do their best in this country in school are children who have parents who are involved in their lives. we have to stop making excuses for that. this sounds like a funny line, an ancient chinese proverb i once read, that says, "prosperity can never last for three generations." how much of the pressure you fell to get your girls on the right track had to do with that notion that prosperity in any one family can only last so long? you are worried your girls are going to throw this family of track. >> that is a big part of it. i saw my parents come over. they were immigrants. they had no money. i had ugly clothes growing up. i never had any privileges. it has shaped the person i am now. i think it is good i had that kind of tough upbringing. i value every opportunity. my kids are not rich, but they

have a lot more. it is like, "by me this. by me that -- buy me that." i did not want a decline. maybe this is an asian thing, but i wanted to make my parents proud by their grandkids. my husband does not think that way. it is just individuals. but also for my kids, i think that if you are entitled person who cannot work hard and are making excuses for yourself all the time -- are you going to be able to survive in the global economy? it is a tough world out there. you can have parents carrying your backpack, but at some point you have to leave the house. i want them to be strong and prepared for the future. that is a big part of my book. tavis: if you did not know, the book is called "battle hymn of the tiger mother," written by a yale law professor amy chua.

>> thank you for having me. tavis: up next, a special performance by amos lee. when he joined as recently on this program for the release of his latest cd, decided to perform a second song for us, which will share right now. this week, his cd "mission bell" grabbed the top spot on the billboard charts. here is a miss performing "out of the cold." ♪ [guitar] ♪ it's hard to argue with a bulletproof vest coz you can't walk straight with a bullet in your chest another man down with a flag to

fold it takes a lot of nothing coming out of the cold ♪ [guitar] a true servant never wants to see you cry of the same can be said of his brand new bride love with no hand to hold it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm hmmm

[guitar] ♪ looking at the pictures up on the shelf feeling mere shadows themselves 22 years, still he feels so cold it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold yack, it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold it takes a lot of loving coming out of the cold mmmm hmmm mm mm mm mhmmm

mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mmmmmmm mhmmm mmmmmmmmm [guitar] [applause] >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org tavis: join me next time with legendary singer-songwriter randy newman on his oscar nomination for "toy story 3." >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better.

>> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more.

>> this is "bbc world news." funding for this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation of new york, stowe, vermont, and honolulu. newman's own foundation. the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. and union bank. >> union bank has put its financial strength to work for a wide range of companies, from