>> rose: welcome to our program. tonight we take look at japan, first the scene on the ground with cnn anchor anna coren. >> it must just be so heart breaking to these people to return to their homes and see that nothing is standing. we're also hearing reports that, you know, there have been neighbors missing, so many people are unaccounted for, charlie, at the moment the death toll stands at just under 2,000, but government officials are saying that will rise well beyond 10,000. >> rose: and then the nuclear danger with david sanger of the "new york times," olli heinonen, former chief inspector for the international atomic and energy agency and nuclear physicist frank von hip. >> the good news is that the wind has been blowing offshore. but you know, the question is whether does this stand relative to chernobyl. it's way past three mile island already. >> rose: we conclude this

evening by looking at the ipad 2 and the future of tablets with walt massberg of the "wall street journal" and david carr of the "new york times." >> the question is, is this going to be the ipod where they still have pretty much absolute domination in terms of players or will it be like the phone where google and others have been able to catch up? i do think they've protected their flake with a very, very impressive 2.0 version of this device. >> rose: japan and the ipad when we continue. who beats the odds and comes out on top.

but this isn't just a hollywood storyline. it's happening every day, all across america. every time a storefront opens. or the midnight oil is burned. or when someone chases a dream, not just a dollar. they are small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin tonight with the tragedy in japan, the search

for survivors continues after friday's earthquake and tsunami. the confirmed death toll on monday reached nearly 1,900. the number is expected to reach thousands more. for those who have survived many lacked a "heat, water and food in freezing winter temperatures and many are still looking for loved ones amid scenes of complete devastation. meanwhile, fears of radiation exposure are growing. there have already been partial meltdowns at two nuclear reactors in fukushima. at the time of this taping, technicians were bating to stabilize a third reactor. japanese officials say containment walls shielding the nuclear reactor cores remain intact. earlier today, the head of the u.n.'s nuclear watchdog told reporters in vienna the radioactive release has been limited so far. ask >> we're trying to stabilize the reactors.

>> rose: the japanese prime minister has said this is the worst crisis the country has faced since the second world war. the government has deployed 100,000 self-defense troops to lead rescue operations. the united states and several other countries have sent help. president obama reiterated u.s. support for japan today. >> like all americans i continue to be heartbroken by the images of devastation in japan. i know all of you young and old have been watching the full magnitude of this tragedy unfold i want to reiterate america's support for the people of japan who are some of our closest friends and allies. i've said directly to the prime minister of japan that the united states will continue to offer any assistance we can as japan recovers from multiple did sasers and we will stand with the people of japan in the

difficult days ahead. >> rose: joining me by phone from japan, from sendai, cnn's anna coren, she has been covering the devastation from the epicenter, sendai city. i am pleased to have her on this broadcast this evening. thank you. >> rose: you're very welcome, charlie. >> rose: tell me what we should know about the situation on the ground? >> well, we've been a little north of sendai in the last couple days and that's where we've seen mass devastation on an enormous scale house after house, street after street has been wiped out. and the power of the tsunami is just incomprehensible until you actually stand there, charlie, and witness it. this wave, this ten-meter wave that hit the coast just roared through this area and took everything in its path so it's just a... it's a scene of mass devastation.

people who managed to get out in time, they've been returning to their homes in the last couple of days to see what remains going through these buildings, what's left of these buildings to see if they can get any belongings. they've come out with bags of clothing and bedding but, you know, that is about it. i must just be so heart breaking for these people to return to their homes and see that nothing is standing. we're also hearing reports that their neighbors are missing. so many people are unaccounted for, charlie. at the moment the death toll stands at just under 2,000, but government officials are saying that we l rise well beyond 10,000. >> rose: well beyond 10,000. >> that's what we are hearing, charlie, yes. and when you are amongst it, you can... you can understand that it is going to really rise, that they are going from house to house, from street to street, from suburb to suburb looking

through these neighborhoods to if they can find survivors but in actual fact they are recovering bodies. we joined a military team and they had hoped to... for it to be a search-and-rescue operation but it quickly became apparent that this was a recovery operation. and as they go to these places, they are going to find more and more houses and it's not just these houses, charlie, the tsunami has just collected people and taken them judge river and out to sea. so we may never know the actual death count. >> rose: and the temperature there is, what? just above freezing? >> it's very, very cold. so for those rescue crews who are working here certainly tough conditions we're also getting reported that it could rain later today so it's a tough time

for all involved. we know that crews are coming in from the u.s., from new zealand, from britain, so they'd certainly need the international help because at the moment it's just the japanese military that are on the ground, these search-and-rescue workers who are really combing through these areas. but it's such an enormous amount of coastline that they need to get through and it's an enormous job ahead so they need that international help. >> rose: where are people staying who come back looking for homes that are no longer there and members of the family that are gone? >> we understand some 450,000 people are in evacuation centers and shelters. that's where they are staying if they can't get beds with family and friends. the other problem up here, charlie, is the real shortage of food and water and fuel.

that is a massive problem up here. there are two kilometers long of people trying to get fuel. so for those people, you know, five, eight kilometers beyond the coastline whose houses are still intact, they are experiencing the knock-on effect of the tsunami. so no power in some of these places, no water and then food supplies that are just getting really, really short. >> rose: what's the worst fear that people have now? >> we were with some people yesterday who were going through their houses and there was an aftershock. then the police came through with a loudspeaker saying a tsunami is coming, get out, get out, move to higher ground. and there was just fear and panic. it was amazing to witness because we have actually felt a number of aftershocks in these

areas when, i guess, not too many people were. there but as people are returning to their houses and going through their belongings, when they felt the aftershock, it just brought the horror back and i think emergency services are just on such high alert. so there was mass hysteria in the town yesterday when that tsunami alert was issued. people jumped in their cars, they raced to higher ground, we spoke to one man who said, you know, his heart is just racing, he's so scared having lived through what he did on friday, that 8.9 magnitude quake and then the ten meter wave that followed less than half an hour later. i think that's a grave view for the survivors that another tsunami will hit. >> rose: do they essentially believe the government is doing everything it can? >> i would say that, you know, as far as communication goes it's really tough to get that sort of information out. you know, those sorts of services are down. like i said, power is out to so

much of this part of the country. so really trying to get information as to what is going on is extremely tough for these people. it's hard to believe, charlie, one minute you're going about your normal day. it was 2:47 in the afternoon and the next thing these people's lives are just being turned completely upside down and there is just so much devastation and i think that's the thing. it's like where do these people start to rebuild their lives? it's huge. just an enormous task ahead of them. >> rose: thank you so much for joining us, anna. to have the kind of perspective you do from being on the ground there means a lot to us here. thank you. >> you're very welcome. thank you. >> rose: anna coren is the anchor for the weekday news program "world report" which originates from handicap. back in a moment. stay with us.

>> rose: joining me today from washington, david sanger of the "new york times" who'd been covering this story. from harvard's kennedy school, olli heinonen former chief inspector for atomic energy agency. he monitors the nuclear industry in japan during the 1980s. with me in new york, frank von hippel00 he advised the clinton white house and he is at princeton university now. aam pleased to have each of them here to talk about this extraordinary situation. what's the latest we know, david? >> charlie, we're a little bit in the fog of crisis here where we're trying to sort through the various reports about each of these three different reactors that you mentioned and maybe the most remarkable thing about this entire incident, certainly to those of us who used to live in japan as olli did and i did for many years is that you have three nuclear crises under way simultaneously in adjacent plants. each one a little bit different.

the one that really focused everyone's attention over the past 24 hours has been the number-two reactor at the dai-ichi plant. and the reports that came out of tokyo electric power company which operates this plant about a day ago suggested that they have lost all ability to get water... sea water into this plant to try to cool the nuke lire core. and that suggest that there was a tremendous amount of pressure that they couldn't relieve from the containment of this reactor. that led to all kinds of fears including that the containment could be breached at some point or there could be an explosion. just an hour or two ago tokyo electric power said they had been able to vent this from some degree and were able to get water in. but their readings indicated that they still weren't getting the water levels they needed, which they said suggested their

there could be a leak in the containment system. that could be very bad news because it would suggest that cesium and iodine, both radioactive forms of cesium and iodine, could escape out of the containment center and, of course, we've already seen some indications that there has been radiation in small amounts detected outside the plant. >> rose: tell me what your gravest concerns are now as you look at this? >> well, just to add to what david said, the issue right now has been the pressure that's inside the containment. the containments have been overpressured and they've been releasing radioactivity into the atmosphere. the good news is the wind has been blowing offshore. >> rose: right. >> but, you know, the question is where does this stand relative to chernobyl. it's way past three mile island already. >> rose: right. some people have said it's more like three mile island than it

is chernobyl. you're saying it's way past three mile island. >> three mile island was not a major release. here there are significant releases taking place already because the containments are smaller and they're being overpressured and they're releasing. and the radioactive gases. my concern is that the winds stay offshore and that the... i think a large fraction of the radioactivity has been captured in the water in the basement of the building. and so i also... each of the three buildings and so i hope also that radioactivety stays in the water. that the water doesn't evaporate for example. and reaerosolize the radioactivity. >> rose: olli, what would you add to that in terms of concerns at this moment? >> i think this is a pretty good

analysis that david and frank did and i have only one concern left personally and this is that we are still feeling some aftershocks after this big earthquake and they may change the situation and we need to still be prepared for the first but hope for the best. >> rose: what is the risk today of a melt down? >> in my view, we've basically already had the releases of a large fraction of the radioactivety, the volatile radioactivety that we would worry about from a reactor accident has already been released. so i don't know that a meltdown would make it that much worse unless a meltdown caused an explosion, a steam explosion that disrupted the containment and allowed a lot more of the radioactivity to escape in the environment. >> rose: olli, what would you say? same question about this idea of a nuclear... i mean of a meltdown? >> yes, i think the biggest vifk

just what frank said. that if we end up with this core really melting down and we have this so called steam explosion and we have to remember that there has been a tremendous earthquake and the this situation has continued several days, four days, actually so that maybe the equipment is not in more so well able to toll tolerate this explosion which might be there. >> rose: give me the best scenario-- and we've talked about this already-- the best scenario and the worst scenario to take us through and what are we talking about in terms of duration of time? >> i think the best scenario is that they've managed to keep the debris or whatever's left of the cores cool and stable in the reactor vessels. >> rose: and if they do... >> then you don't that meltdown. and whatever radioactivety remains in that fuel will remain in the fuel.

so that's the best and the... and this the water... that the radioactivety doesn't come out of the water in the basement, the radioactivety that has been captured there. >> rose: and the worst scenario is? >> the worst scenario i guess... well, there's another... not too far down the road now is another issue. the spent fuel pools of these reactors contains much more fuel than the reactors. the fuel is not as hot as the reactor fuel and it doesn't... therefore is not evaporating the water that's covering it as fast as the water has been evaporated in the reactor but at some point if that water isn't replenished, that fuel will become dry and heat up and we have problems with that. i think in a way the two explosions that have happened that may have helped-- because they've basically glon the roof off above the spent fuel pools-- so they could have conceivably

used helicopters to bring in hoses to actually top those pools up in two of the reactors. >> rose: david, what's your assessment of how the japanese government is handling this? >> well, so far the reaction, at least as you can see from the far, is pretty good when you consider how much they have on their hands. i mean, they have this huge catastrophe, the the search first for survivors and now a search that's really turned into one for bodies. the huge displacement of so many people in this area in sendai and for those who have been up in that area it's a very aged population. so these are people who are going to require a lot of care and a lot of help moving around. so you've got that crisis under way, and then the nuclear crisis. i would say that what we saw in the first 48 to 72 hours was

tokyo electric power and the regulators putting sort of the best face on things that they could and that was very consistent with my experience in far more minor nuclear instances i covered when i was a correspondent in japan. but i think at this point once people saw the two explosions even as we've heard those were not the most critical problems that we're facing and once it became clear that the fuel has been exposed to the air, they've now begun to be a little more transparent and in fact at one of their press conferences today what must have been around 4:00 a.m. tokyo time, so they felt the need to get some news out fairly early. and at this point i think japanese population is so on edge that probably they can't hold enough briefings. >> rose: and the danger of it spreading... we mentioned the winds early, which is a crucial element. what are the dangers, olli, that

this can spread beyond japan? >> well, radioactivety doesn't recognize the national borders and it depends now pretty much on the wind situation. i think we have been lucky so far it's mainly taken it to the pacific ocean but i also understood that now there might be more winds blowing south and this will be bringing... if there is a big release dodge the population centers, tokyo area but if they then turn to the west then it will go over the japanese sea to the korean peninsula. let's hope it coasts now the other way. >> rose: is there a critical time element here, olli, that we're looking at? >> i think first of all unit number two is a different case because there the situation is more serious and there i think it will be the next few hours but the way the cooling proceeds

in the other reactors, i think we are talking about days before we are in a stable situation that we can say that this reactors have been safely shut down. >> rose: two or three days. >> i think so. but we don't the facts here because it depends on how well they are able to cool this reactor and i have the v not personally seen any estimates to that end. >> rose: what are the ramifications to this beyond all the issues we've talked about, david? >> well, charlie, there's been greatly increased interest in nuclear power since global warming debate really took off. and you saw president obama embrace nuclear power to a degree that few of his democratic predecessors had before and to the great unease of the environmental groups who had a opposed nuke liar power for years and then began to reconsider it some when they questioned how it is that the united states and other countries would begin to lower

their carbon footprints. so now comes several questions. first, does this cut off whatever budding ren sense in nuclear power there was. you have to think at a minimum it's going to slow it down the way three mile island did and chernobyl did. the second question is if you can get it going again, not only how do we learn the lessons of this accident? although in this particular case the reactors seemed to survive the 8.9 earthquake and got wiped out-- or at least their cooling systems got wiped out-- by the tsunami. it's an unusual situation. the earthquake took out all of the electricity in the area but then there were diesel engines that were supposed to kick be into effect to provide cooling water to these power plants in the case that they lost all power. and those were behind the sea wall but, of course, the tsunami overwhelmed the sea wall and then knocked out all of those diesel powers. so that's why they're using this fire engine approach that frank

described. certainly one would want to look at all of the backup systems that have been created for american power plants, including those-- and there are several and some in the new york area, in fact-- of similar design to the fukushima plant. i think the third issue the president's going to have to deal with at some moment is that to get new power plants built in the united states, if the u.s. goes ahead with those, the u.s. government is going to have to figure out a way the liability problems or take on much more itself. this is something that president bush started down the path on and my guess is that's going to be a very wrenching debate at a time of super hi def sits. >> i could add something. 30 years ago after three mile island a number of us realized that we were lucky at three mile island that it happened in n that reactor because the containment survived, partly because it had electrical power.

but we pointed out that these containments need a more robust filter system. a release system where you have a situation like this happening in... these japanese reactors, that the pressure could be relieved not directly into the outside but through a filter system which would capture most of that radioactivety. the french and the swedes picked that up but the u.s. did not. so i hope that this issue will be revisited now. >> rose: and maybe go in the direction that the french and the swedes did. >> right. >> rose: olli, let me just come to you for the last word. so what surprises you most about this having some experience with japan as well as the nuclear issue. >> well, first of all, to be honest the magnitude of this earthquake which was something

unbelievable. they say today the whole island moved a couple of meters so i think it was pretty unpredictable. but the biggest surprise for me was that so many systems went the same time down same way which i think we need to understand why did this happen. and the response, i think, has been fairly good at least at this point of time but we have to go through this process and evaluate whether things were done properly, what was the design? should we change the design? where should this reactor be located, etc. we have to remember that there are more than 400 nuclear power plants operating today in the world and some of them are perhaps not at this seismic type of region but anyway vulnerable for such kind of events. >> rose: thank you all. thank you very much. thank you, david. >> rose: apple has done it again. its ipad 2 has people lining up around the country since it went on sale in the united states on

friday. some said the lines were longer than those for the first ipad. the new device is thinner, it is lighter and it is faster. it also has two cameras on the front and back. apple released the ipad 2 just as demand for tablets is heating up. samsung's galaxy tab and moat motorola's exhume powered by the an dried operating system is already on the market. hewlett-packard and others have announced similar devices. during the announcement for ipad 2 this month, apple's c.e.o. steve jobs insisted that his company was ahead of the competition. >> we haven't been resting on our laurels. because unless n less than a year we're going to introduce today ipad 2, the second generation ipad. (applause) >> rose: joining me now, two men who know what it all means. walt mossberg, the author of the weekly personal technology column in the "wall street journal". from austin, texas, david carr. he is the author of the monday business column in the "new york times" that focuses on the media.

i am pleased to have them back together to talk about the ipad. welcome. good to see you. >> great to see you, charlie. >> rose: david, we wish you were here at the table. >> well, it's a pleasure to be with y'all but i'm in austin with all these tech guys at south by southwest. >> rose: all right, let's talk about the ipad 2. >> i think the important thing, the most striking thing is look at how much thinner it is. and it isn't like people were walking around with the original ipad thinking "this is a big thick heavy thing and it's slow and the screen stinks" and all that. but, in fact, apple, which is now moving into a second generation while everybody else is trying to do their first generation basically took and doubled the processor power up to nine times the graphics, they say. i mean, i haven't been able to test that fully. and cameras, as you mentioned. and about... at the same claimed battery life, because most of

the innards of these things are batteries yet somehow made it a third thinner and about 10%, 12% lighter. and so the engineering and design wizards kind of worked on this. >> rose: how did they do it? >> you know... (laughs) they're not the only company that's smart about these things but they certainly are the leading company that's smart about designing these kinds of products and engineering them very carefully. so one thing i think is that the logic boards, the chips in these things keep getting smaller and that makes more room for things like bigger batteries. >> rose: here it is. it also has a new cover. show us the new cover. >> the cover is extra. $40 or $70 depending on whether you want plastic or leather. and what they did was they made a cover that is magnet psychowhen you... it's like that light in your refrigerator.

you never know when it's on our off but when it closes it turns the screen off to save battery. when it opens it turns the screen on. it folds down into a stand so that you can read on a table top or whatever. and if you don't want it you just take it off. it's just a magnet and it's... snaps back on. and it comes in, like, ten colors or something. >> rose: any draw backs that you can see? >> there are a few drawbacks to it. the cameras work, i think, quite well for video. if you make a video call, if you take... it will take high definition video. they are pretty mediocre for still photos. apple won't even... if you go to their spec sheet on the web, it doesn't even give a megapixel on it. so that's a drawback. i think the... for some people-- for some people--, and this is an oldtory now-- the fact that it won't play flash video, which is an apple policy, as you know,

continues in this device. so there will be some people that don't like that. but i would say that the positives way, way outweigh the drawbacks and what i wound up saying and i think actually most of the other reviewers-- you have the papers there-- wound up saying was this is now the tablet to beat, this will keep apple ahead and i think that's right. >> rose: we'll talk much more about that. david, what do you think of the ipad 2? >> you know, walt did a great job of describing its advantages. and i think part of what people need to understand you say well, it's a little thinner, what's the big deal? when you are holding something in your hand all the time, a little bit down on the weight, a little bit round tonight edge, a little bit smaller on the bezel makes a huge, huge difference as walt and others pointed out. it's harder to get components in but it's a gorgeous thing to hold and that cover, which seems like a silly thing, what's the big deal about having a cover

that turns it on and off, i can't tell you what a revelation it is to have something come out of your bag, open it up and it's ready and that is, mark my words going to be an industry standard going forward. and the most important thing is their ability to deliver that all on price, the price performance is breathtaking. imagine having to compete with them and they keep copying themselves but they come in at the same number. people must have been tearing their hair out when they saw it and saw the price. >> well, i mean, yeah. i thought it was pretty a bad day at the competing companies. don't get me wrong. they're not going to keep a 90% share of the tablet market because there are 82 more tablets being made and naturally that's going to take some of the share. but one other thing that i didn't mention and david didn't mention although we both know it very well that i think is huge here is they still have way more third-party apps that you can run on this than anyone else.

>> rose: and an did... >> they have 350,000, android, which is their fastest-rising and best competitor has 150,000. of those 350,000, apple has 65,, now that have been optimized for this tablet screen and tablet features and the android tablet version of their operating system to be very fair is just getting going. it's about a month old. they have well under 100 apps. they're going to gain more. but, again, it's catching up to... everybody's trying to catch is up what's going on. i agree with everything david said about the hard-to-quantify hard-to-describe in words even though we're writers feel of this. >> rose: what is the social impact or the commercial impact or the cultural impact of this? >> well, i'll just start with the commercial impact. first of all, every single analyst that... maybe there's

one or two exceptions but the ones that i remember, grotesquely underestimated how many of these apples would sell. they sold 15 million in nine months. they haven't revealed what happened in the fourth quarter or what the sales of this were since it went on sale friday evening, but the tablets are real, they're here, that's why there's 80 of them being designed and brought to market. that has eaten into the growth of laptops. people who own these tend to use their laptops less often. i'm not saying they throw their laptop away but they use it less often and that means they keep them longer, they don't replace them as often. so it's having a big impact on the digital device of choice. you're using your smart phone, some people are finding they're using this and their laptop a lot less. in terms of cultural impact, i think maybe david would have the

better answer but i'll just tell you one thing, i watch t.v. shows, i watch movies on, this i read books on this and let me point out apple has built a couple of little-known features into this. one is called air play, charlie. and, again, of course, this all goes down to their bottom line. but if you buy a $99 apple t.v.-- which is a sprite device, but it only costs $99 and it's literally this big-- plug it into your t.v. set. whenever you play a video on this or show a photo slide show there's a little button. you hit that button and wirelessly it suddenly shows up on the t.v. screen instead of on this. you're sitting there with this but... >> rose: watching it on a big screen. >> flying across the room on to the t.v. screen. the other thing they've done with this is put a full-on h.d. adaptor. h.d.m.i. is the name of the cable on h.d.t.v.s. so you can mirror whatever's on the screen on this on to your t.v. and i think those things have a big impact over time as well.

>> rose: david? impact. >> you know, back when we were all gathered last time and looking at the ipad i think we were pretty excited by what we saw and a lot of people sort of laughed at us and others for suggesting that a lot of thingss were about to change. >> rose: yeah, they did. >> well, we ended up right; they ended up wrong. all you had to do was just take your business cap off and get your hands on the thing and say you know what? when you sit next to this, you're going to want one. and if you have the money, you'll go out and get it. i think one of the business implications if you look at the leverage that steve jobs has right now he's getting into the subscription business and he owns 90% of the tablet. i was talking to someone on call a senior apple official and... >> rose: you know who who he's

talking about? >> that's what i call them, too. (laughter) >> rose: >> let's just say i waited for his call and took it when it came. (laughter) so the thing is that we were discussing how publishers are unhappy with the terms that have been laid out for the ipad and i said well, part of the reason that you have so much leverage with these publishers and are able to get what you want is you've got it so right the first time that you sent all your competitors back to the drawing board and that was the week before ipad 2. and this senior corporate official said "we're going to do the same thing next week." i do think that it's the kind of leap forward at a price point that is going to make competition not impossible but very, very difficult in the standards of instant on the ability to go to what is really their killer app. itunes is the only commercial

environment in the app store on the web you've got 150 million, 200 million credit cards and their crowning achievement at apple is the ability to separate consumers from their money when it comes to buying digital stuff. >> rose: (laughs) yes. >> nobody else has figured that out. >> rose: they can do that. talk about applications and what you can do here. beyond... >> yeah. i don't know, again. >> rose: this camera in the light. >> so what does this? this says intel, not an intel chip in here. this is something i'm using as example. that is powerpoint. it was made in a powerpoint on a windows computer. it was e-mailed to me. i can see it on this ipad and i can see it not only in some one special apple app-- there is one-- but i can see it... there's third party... there's at least half a dozen third party apps that will let me either see powerpoint decks or even create them and edit them.

word documents, spreadsheets. now, not as quite with every feature that a full-blown computer would have yet but remember, charlie, this is about a year. it's a little less than a year since it started and you can do this. and, you know, then you can go back and play angry birds if you want. >> rose:. >> rose: (laughs) i love it. >> google is building one, too, but this app is powerful and to david's point, just speaking personally, i read the economists on here, i read the "wall street journal," i read the "new york times," i read all things digital, my web site, i read the "new yorker" on here. and they're very good experiences. >> rose: and the implications of that for those print publication is what? this is the future for newspapers right here? the future for magazines? >> this sort of thing is so much more satisfying as a digital

reader than a computer or a smart phone-- as good as smart phones are. and to my mind it's more satisfying than the kindle and i'll tell you why. there's nothing wrong with the kindle. there's a lot right with the kindle. it's a great device. but it's for reading books that are primarily text. and david, here you'll correct me. i'm just riffing here. but i think you're going to see books begin to look like d.v.d.s in a sense. you're going to see fwhoox have extra features in them. you're going to see books with animation. you're going to see books with video interviews with the authors that the publishers will try to charge more for. none of that runs on the current kindle because of the technology. now, you know, amazon can... >> rose: plus there's no color. >> there's no color. there's a kindle app on here so if amazon wanted to sell those books i could read them on here but i've got to give apple a bunch of money or maybe one after their competitors. >> rose: was what does this mean

for newspapers? you've written about it as well. >> one of the things that... when i and others wrote about how ipad was going to be the savior of print, one of the things i didn't think of is good, we'll get out of the printing press business, very expensive investment, all those legacy costs just go direct with the reader. but guess what? it gets rid of all points of entry that... all the things that kept other people out. rupert murdoch just launched a newspaper on the ipad and, you know for annual costs $25 million which is really, really small money and so you can be seeing a new model of newspaper that doesn't carry with it the legacy cost. i think walt is right in terms of magazines and books, readers are going to be bringing very different expectations where you're reading along and some of

it is described as a love child of a hell's angel and a sioux indian. you're going to want to be able to hit that... hit that name and want to see that person pop up with their big long hair and their feathered earring and let them talk with you and then go back in the narrative. i don't think you're seeing any children's books right now but all non-fiction books... no, most non-fiction books going forward will include video, references to source material and it won't to go to the web it will be baked right into the book. in terms of pure newspaper plays one of the things that i think is interesting is we put all our money on apps but you know what? it's a great experience to read our newspapers on the web as well. when you're on an ipad because you're sort of surfing for the first time, you're moving across content with your finger looking

at stuff it feels like reading the newspaper. >> rose: i mean, does it mean in terms of print that this is the death nell for print? >> rose: i think that going forward the print version in newspapers will be an expensive luxury artifact that will be seen as something of a status symbol to carry around. it will be more lushly produced. it will be... but it will not be the primary delivery of content. right now we put the white paper out so we can get the green paper back. that's our business model, right? and i think more and more as we get readers to pay for not subscriptions, which is a terrible word, but applications which is a sexy and wonderful word, the more and more we get them involved, the better and better the business model gets. the problem is we're going to have a lot of competitors coming in that don't have those legacy costs attached to them. >> rose: let's talk about competitors. so you've... what's out there

that is... has the best possibility of gaining traction? >> okay, the best possibility, charlie, are the tablets based on a system called honeycomb, just a software platform which is a version of android made by google but made for tablets. and the... there are only a couple... only one tablet actually out there at the moment called the zoom which you mentioned in your intro by motorola. roughly the same size screen, a little bit different shape but the same screen, basically, sized screen. actually, a higher resolution screen than this. but, you know, many fewer apps and it costs a lot more at the moment, although they're racing to bring out some other models that will be more... closer in price and maybe a little undercut it a little. so i think the android tablets... if you're a developer and you're going to write an app you're going to write it for

apple's system because they've sold a hundred million iphones, probably something like 50 million ipod touches and probably nearing 20 million of these things by now. so you're going to definitely write for them. you're going to write for android. then there's a big race for who's number three. both for consumers and for developers, who's the number three platform in this tablet area? h.p. bought palm and with it they bought an operating system that's very slick called web o.s. but which never was able to attract developers because palm didn't have any money and sales traction. h.p. is hoping to be more like apple. to make hardware, to make the operating system. to have a cloud ecosystem. we haven't even talked about that, by the way, apple anding into rl about to start duking it out in a big way in the cloud this year with music services. >> rose: let me come back to that because it's important. so high pressure is going to fight for third. rim, which makes the blackberry,

is doing a tablet called play book. smaller, a seven-inch tablet. they're going to fight for third. but i think the biggest competitor really leer these android honeycomb tablets. >> rose: what about gal lack any what happened to galaxy? >> galaxy will be a honeycomb tablet. they put out a small one that was before google was ready with the right software and it was fine. it didn't sell that well, but it was fine. they're going to be putting out ones in this size and other sizes with the... with now the correct google software meant for tablets. so samsung... when i talk about android, i'm talking about all these brands. samsung, toshiba, acer, motorola all of them in the android camp and will be going up against that. >> rose: david, what do you think of the competition? >> you know, i think walter's more adept in terms of measuring. the problem with apple with competing with apple and, you know, i think they've had...

obviously in their corporate history some very significant missteps is i don't know how when they get done... i think it's clear they landed one with the first ipad. i myself might put my feet up, pour myself a cup of coffee or an adult beverage and say, boy, we really killed that. the problem with apple is that i don't know their corporate culture, maybe walt can explain. but it seems like the next day they got up and said you know what? we've got to go out and make this so much better that we're going to bury these guys. they seem so hypercompetitive. now, whether... i know the android platform will be stable, they've done a great job catching up in phones. the question is, is this going to be the ipod where they still have pretty much absolute domination in terms of players or will it be like the phone

where google and others have been able to catch up. i do think that they protected their flank with a very, very impressive 2.0 version of this device. >> rose: you know what was amazing? when i was in cairo at the time of the... at the height of the most dramatic change in that country in egypt, we wanted to watch mubarak's speech. >> right. >> rose: and we had no way of doing it except we went to al jazeera live and we sat it on our... we were having dinner and watched him speak on the ipad! it >> it is a computer. it's the first really... this is what we said a year ago and he's right, people laughed at us but, you know, people laugh at us a lot, charlie. we said it's a fundamentally important new different form of a digital... of a computer. >> rose: let me talk a moment about the cloud and the coming competition in the cloud. tell the viewers what the cloud is. >> so the cloud is just another

word for all these servers out on the internet that cannot only hold your data-- which is important, so your pictures or your movies or your business documents or whatever-- but also run applications. programs that are stored on those servers and appeared to be running on a local device, whether it's a computer or tablet or phone, but are really running on big powerful servers in the cloud. and apple has just finished construction of a gigantic massive server facility in north carolina. people have been... north carolina. people have been watching. i think... i don't know if north carolina is going to collect much taxes on it, charlie, that another question. >> rose: i'm sure they made a good deal. >> and i predict-- although i do not know for a fact-- that you will see itunes and the synchronization of these device which is still requires you once in a while to plug into a computer, that's going to come other the air.

google's already very much emphasizing that over the air. i think they're going to have a music service, but it's going to go beyond music and video services in the cloud-- as important as that is. it's going to be synchronizing all your files so it doesn't matter what device you pick up. anything you were working on is going to be on whatever device you pick up. and this is going to be another area of competition and it's part of this ecosystem that apple has always championed. we make the hardware... we make the software, we let some other guys make software, too, but we kind of control it. and by the way-- and david mentioned this highly significant figure-- we also sell you all the stuff from the cloud. jobs at the introduction of this made a huge point that they have these 200 million accounts with credit cards and sort of suggest that that may be the most anyone has i don't know. >> rose: amazing. david, about the cloud, anything to add to that? >> the thing is is when i got my

ipad this is the first post-computer device and i'm going, yup, it's here, the future into sister here and you open up, what's the first thing you do with it? you plug it into a computer. and it's like, mmm, that wasn't quite the future i was looking for and even with this device, the first thing you do is plug it into a computer, in my case a p.c., and i do think that walt is right in that the idea that we're going to need either a laptop or a desktop to activate these devices and many, many others is disappearing and we're developing a layer of much thinner devices where a lot of the power of the device is stored elsewhere, a lot of the information is stored elsewhere and these devices become prisms on what we want and let's... you know, big tools that we need hack our way into stuff.

i do think that it's... the next ipad would be surprised if you get started by plugging it into a p.c. >> rose: peeking of those other devices, not the p.c., but smart phones, i remember when people first comments on the ipad they loved it, some people, loved it. but they saidbly why do i want this when i have my iphone? you want me to take something that's bigger than my pocket and take it around with me. that issue is dead? >> it's dead for a number of reasons. there may be some people who still feel that way but it turns out the real victim of this, the real device that is challenged by this is the p.c., not laptop, not the phone. >> rose: what might they be working towards as they think about an ipad 3. >> i think it's worth mentioning aist with list because if a kl make it happen and it goes with

their ideology, it goes with their corporate strategy, they will. the first one came out and they said where are the cameras? well, he came back with two, right? so they're interested in what people think unless they bring up flash. and i can't just walk by that, charlie. i have a huge problem with what is basically, i think, an ancient argument between companies. you can say it chews up battery or that it's an unstable platform. but, you know, i can hear about this great dale dale clip and go to dale "the daily show" and all i see a black hole. as a consumer, that, to me, is very distress stresses. steve jobs has decided that i'm going to give you something so great that you'll deal with the holes in content and it turned out to be right. i'm probably going to buy this one. i do think that one thing about this being a much more platform

productivity is true. i do think that inputting-- and i've been attending seminars here-- there's got to be a way to get text into this thing that doesn't involve a big... and if it's on my wish list it's let me type on my desk or whatever flat surface an just be smart enough to look at it and know what i'm typing. >> this is moving fast and the competitors will move fast whether it's movies or documents whatever. you're still not going to write a 30-page legal brief if you're a lawyer on this because typing is o.k. and you can get pretty good at it. but a physical keyboard is better. so there are going to be some competitors that are going to have fold out or slide out key boards and we'll see that. but here's the thing about apple including that executive who i also occasionally talk to. >> who never calls me.

>> they don't... whatever it is they're thinking about-- and they didn't start thinking about it this weekend, they've been thinking about ipad 3 for a number of months before this was even done-- is we don't know what they think is going to be the cool new super-duper thing. most of the predictions always tend to be wrong and they bring something out that you didn't expect. so i don't know. maybe a holographic robot will come out of it. i just don't know. >> rose: i want an app where i can take the ipad and place it under my seat and it will take me across town in manhattan in less than five minutes. is that too much to affect? (laughter) >> rose: yes, too much. thank you. great to see you.

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