tavis: good evening from los angeles. first up, a conversation with rebecca skloot on the remarkable success of her boat, "the immortal life of henrietta lacks". it has been on the new york times best-seller list for your and tells the story of a black woman whose cancer is cells for use. a movie is been produced by oprah winfrey. also robin wright with a new project directed by reverend fred for. -- robert redford.

>> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: rebecca skloot is an award winning science writer whose book has become a phenomenon. "the immortal life of henrietta lacks".

the story of a poor black woman whose cancer cells were used by science without her permission. it is out in paperback. it is being turned into a bomb project being produced by oprah winfrey. -- a film project being produced by oprah winfrey. good to have you back on this program. >> great to be back. >> i had no idea that this book would still be on the best- seller list. the thing i find interesting is, i and others had read parts of this story. it has been published and written about in other places. set your modesty aside for a second. what is it about your -- this treatment of the story that got everybody to talk about henrietta lacks? >> the story had been told over and over and it was the same nugget of the story. takenman's secells

without her knowledge. that moment in history, it is ethically complicated but it was common to take cells. researchers went back and used her kids in research without her consent and medical records were released. so much of what happened to her kids is the heart of the story and that had never been part of what was out there. it was this nugget of the story that was told. >tavis: how is the family reacting to this new-found fame, if not fortune but certainly fame about the story in their family? >> i think they -- there are mixed emotions. they are proud of the cells. the young regeneration know what

they did for science and the learned about this stuff and henrietta lacks is a rock star and did this for science. they cannot afford health care and they feel like they're waiting for some money to come their way as a result so they have mixed emotions. the response to the book has been good for them in some ways. they have been living with this their entire lives and nobody ever seem to care what they were going through. there was a side of them that did not think would -- people would read or care. it came out and the younger generation started seeing it on twitter and they're like, people are reading it. the response our people are coming forward and saying sorry for what you went through and we wish it would have been different. they have this outpouring of sympathy and response and thanks. you mentioned the foundation, readers donate every day to the foundation. tavis: what is the foundation

set up to do? >> the mission is to help people who are in financial need, who are used in research without their consent. the family, her descendants qualify. also the descendants of the tuskegee syphilis studies, the famous studies were african- american men were used without their consent. we have given out eight grants for education and books to her grandkids and great grandkids and we helped her kids with health care and various dental procedures and things like that. that has come from proceeds from the book but also donations from individual raiders who send the most incredible letters when they donate. some people will send the dollar and say this is what i got but i want to say thank you and the family as move. tavis: i was wondering and i have the chance to ask you. i put at the top of my list, and credulity. if there is something more than

people being incredulous, finding it incredulous something like this could happen. if there is something beyond that, what it is -- tell me what it is. when they see you in person that these signings. >> there so many things people come to the signings with. one of the most important things is from scientists, positions, who stand up and realize this had happened and this is an important part of the discussion about how to do research. we hope that this will help bridge the trust gap between us and african-americans but minorities across the board. we hear that from scientists a lot. the thing that is the most moving are the people who come to the events and say, i am alive because of henrietta lacks. my cancer was treated with a drug made using her cells and i was conceived because my parents used in vitro fertilization.

there is not a person -- single person who has not benefited from a vaccine or took a drug. watching their borrowed realize that. you read the book and it is a fascinating story and at a certain point, everyone hit somewhere in the book where they go, that is made. that is one of the most incredible things is to watch everyone's individual moments where they step forward and say, how they personally benefited tavis: to your point now. everyone of us whether we know it or not has been -- benefited from her cells and research done on them. does it mean the pharmaceutical companies are flooding the foundation with grants? >> no. they're not. the grants have been from readers or individual scientist to come forward and say i used them in my research and i want to donate. no institutions or research organizations. there is a concern from than

they do not want to set a precedent. if we give money to this foundation, which they see as giving money to the family although it is not just the family. they're worried about if we do that, what about the other people and who gives them money? how much? >>tavis: is it guilt? >> it is a precedent and killed. if they do this, it will be perceived -- proceedperceived am doing something wrong. people who have been used without consent which has happened throughout time, that would take away that concern but it has not. i think there is a company out there that will be the first and others will follow. i hear from companies that say they're interested and it is great but they're scared to be the first. tavis: is there a legal claim or has congress moved to thwart that because they were lobbied

by these industries to cut this off some time ago, is there a legal claim that would allow persons who have had their cells used in this way? is there a way to bring a claymore case against these? >> not really. there have been cases over the years, people who found out that their cells have been used. usually once people find out there is commercialization, historically, they have lost and the courts have ruled in favor of the use of the cells for science because they were worried about inhibiting progress. if they get money, maybe they will stop donating and they will hold off for money when most cells are not worth much. i have talked to everyone involved in a lawsuit and thousands of people. they say we understand this is important research. it is important to donate cells.

we want to know what is happening. we do not want to think that people are taking these things at commercializing them. there are no laws broken or pending lawsuits. we're in a place where science and policy makers are starting to look at, how do we do with this going forward so that people continue to lead is used tissues and research. we disclose this. tavis: there is science for the sake of science and science that is being done deliberately that we know is going to lead to commercialization. someone will make some money. i could buy the argument if it were again science for the sake of learning and growing and whenever and dancing. when that science, when there is a direct line between scientific research and profit, that did not sit right with me. >> it does not sit right with a lot of people and this is what i

hear again and again. that comes down to the health- care debate. what you hear from the scientific research is that everyone benefits. we need to find incentive for pharmaceutical companies to develop drugs and tests so there has to be commercialization. everyone benefits from research so everyone should give samples but not everyone does benefit. when you have is a system where the samples are taken from people without their realizing it and turned into products that are sold back to those people and many of them cannot afford it. particularly minorities or the poor. i think in a lot of ways, the way that this structure has -- does not take into account how the health system works and that is what people are mad about. the commercial side would be people would get less angry if they feel like they had access to care but tax dollars are paying for the research and human cells are going to make research possible and they do not get access.

tavis: you are young and energetic enough and full of enough ideas that this would not be anywhere near the last book you're right. there is much more in you. if it were to be the case that this were your magnum opus, if this turned out to be the contribution for which you were known in the world, i assume you'll be ok with that? >> i would. i am working on a kid's edition. this is writing a 410 to -- for ten to 15-year-old kids. doing it again. i think it is important so i have other books and other ideas in the works. i know full well that i will always be associated with, i am a woman who wrote this, no matter what i write in the future. this will be the thing that people think about and i take

that as an honor.; tavis: you should. this book has been on the list for a year or longer. if you plan to go home when this tour is over, when the book falls off the list, you might not get home for another few years. "the immortal life of henrietta lacks" by rebecca skloot. good to have you on. next, actress robin wright. stay with us. pleased to welcome robin wright to this program. starring in the robert redford project, "the conspirator". the film opens around the country this weekend. here is the scene. >> you have to tell us where your son is. >> i have to tell us, whose side are you on? >> i am trying to defend you.

>> you're suggesting i treat my son for myself? we're trying to save you. i wish i could give you what you need, i truly do. if you want, you will have to find another way. tavis: good to have you on the program. >> good to be here. tavis: i am not a lincoln scholar. i do not know why i did not know there was a woman who was involved in these trials. i have no idea. did you know before? >> i knew nothing. tavis: i am not the only one. >> i actually fell asleep in history class. tavis: i was awake but i still did not know. >> if you think about it, in any field, who are the stars? they were abe and john wilkes booth. also the ambivalence around this event that happened in this historical moment.

of his assassination. still today, it is a nebulous the knee. did she, didn't she? that is why redford made the movie. it was not -- it is about civil liberties, how she was treated. why was the military commission, why not a civil trial and how many perils -- how many parallels we can draw today. i spoke to a bunch of historians, why is there not more information, especially about the union war hero defending a confederate sympathizer? there is a movie. and how they grow to understand each other and love each other. tavis: we jump in so fast. i can see my mom saying slow up, back up and tell me who this woman is and what she was guilty of or accused of. let me let you do the honors to tell the story of what we're talking about. >> was she a co-conspirator in

the plot to kill ever have lincoln, because her son was part of the conspiracy to kidnap the president under john wilkes booth's order. there was a person who stayed at the boarding house. >tavis: because they stayed there, the questions come up to what she knew and did not know. to my reading of the film, you intimated this earlier. i am not sure whether she knew or did not know, and yet, to your point, that is not what the director wants us to focus in on. >> it is a humanity story. how we can be in conflict with our morals, which she is. do you defend your offspring, in

the general sense? i will throw myself in front of a bus for my kids. but religiously and morally, for her, is that the right thing to do for god, to live? is she lying? is a selective hearing as a mother? there are so many questions that it provokes. tavis: she did not have a chance in this trial. >> not a chance. tavis: not a chance at all. >> they were using her as bait. that was part of our history. it was definitely being used for to bring justice. it was expediency over the constitution. because my son was not going to appear and testify. and free her. tavis: what makes it complicated beyond the argument about humanity is the issue of gender comes up. no woman in this country prior to this was ever hanged.

obviously, not to give the movie away. >> there is not a sequel. tavis: there is . . she has no chance at winning the case. she gets hanged in the end. how did you read that as a woman playing this character? she ends up being the first woman to be hanged in this way? >> i was not thinking about it. when we were working. i was thinking about a face. with god.alignment i am not a practicing religion free. i did not grow in a religious family but i do have a familfai. it was nice to delve into that kind of conviction. it was a different kind of injustice. it was, you are taking away my ability to be my son's mother.

can we make this irrelevant? if that henow o is guilty. do not take me away as his mother. that is what i was thinking when i was going to the gallows. tavis: what role did the son play in this process? >> he befriended john wilkes booth. i think being a confederate sympathizer running a boarding house, needing the money, she was in dire straits financially because her husband had died and left her with the debt. and hered borarders adn her son came home and said here my pals. there were planning a

conspiracy. what was detailed in the book about the biographies, she was farsighted. she could not see. when those men appeared at her house, she did not recognize them. that was true. i think there was a lack of hearing issue, there was all that. maybe she heard it and it was muffled. veiled. tavis: how erie was that -- eerie was it to have this film premiere at ford's theater? how was it? >> it was moving. tavis: why moving? >> it was not eerie. it is so intimate.

200 seats. right when you walk in, you see the booth where he sat. it was the mezzanine. one floor up. it was moving. it brought tears to my eyes. to walk in and know that we're preparing the movie about the event that was so harrowing. he changed history. tavis: you referenced parallels between then and what is happening in the world now. the immediate thing relatives that comes to mind is ford's theatre is part of the national park service. had this government shutdown gone down, the theater would have been closed. for you and robert redford, you might have found a way to open it up. >> we were calling amc theater. tavis: how funny is that? you were up against the clock to

see if the government was going to shut down and whether there would be a premier. >> that is right. on that same issue, right? where does the justice lie? we were laughing about the parallels. tavis: your reference parallels between then and now with regard to her tribunal. what did you mean when you are referencing parallels between the movie and what is happening today? >> i have been coached to not speak about those. truthfully. i would like to honor that in mr. redford. we all know what they are. it is corrupt natures and rep -- and retribution. people sabotaging and propaganda. people bring up guantanamo.

that is far as i am going to go. he said, i do not want to promote this film by using the parallels that are so self- evident. and yet, it is such a great provocation. people ask those questions to themselves. tavis: i like robert redford so i will come back -- i want him to come back so i will honor his request. i have had him on this show and we have talked a number of times and it was a good conversation. i understand it. without asking you to violate his request, i am curious. why not talk about those things in the promotion? it is a good idea. i think i get it. you tell me why you think he does not want to push that envelope in the promotional effort? >> his words. he said, i am not a political

mymuanalyst and i am convictedn beliefs and i will express those accordingly with my philanthropy. he said, i am interested in making a movie about the story within the story. here we have a very accurate piece of history that we're portraying, and he wanted to tell the story underneath of the people, the human beings, the soul, the heart, and how we are one heart ultimately. tavis: i was going to say that i understand in this regard, the film stands on its own. the lessons, the issues, the tensions, the hypocrisy, comes through pretty loud and clear in the film. if he has done his job as a director, and you have done your job as actors, you do not have to draw those parallels to get folks to understand and situate themselves in the story. >> that is right. tavis: you did do that.

congratulations. >> thank you. so happy to hear that. tavis: i am just saying. tell your son i said hello. >> he loves you. i wanted to tell you that. tavis: i met him one day. >> why do you love him? he goes, he is positive and optimistic. could you possibly learn from him, i said. that would be good. tavis: he will be ok. good to have you want. the film is called "the conspirator" starring robin wright. good to see you. until next time, keep the faith. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org tavis: i am tavis smiley. join me next time with peter guber and best-selling author sarah vowell. that is next time.

see you then. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i am james. >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment, one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more.