tavis: good evening from new york, i am chavis' smiley. we began with the director of the alvin ailey dance group. robert battle is just third head of alvin ailey in history. the incoming director for the schomburg center for research. khalil gibran muhammad will take over the landmark cultural institution in july. robert battle and khalil gibran muhammad coming up right now. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james.

>> yes. >> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, nationwide insurance is happy to help tavis improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: i could not think of a better week to conclude our week here in new york than to focus on the of the two and a cultural

institution beginning with the famed alvin ailey dance center. robert battle will be taking over. he is only the third person to lead alvin ailey. i don't mean that you have some big feet but you have some big shoes to fill. >> thank you. i do have some big feet. [laughter] tavis: how does one go about following -- how you go about creating your own footsteps? >> i think that one of the things that was sent by -- when she took over is that she does not feel like she felt she was standing in shoes the standing on shoulders. that is a big part of it, i am not alone.

there is an entire organization who loves this vision. i am surrounded by his spirit and by these remarkable dancers and people who care. >> the only -- tavis: the thing that moves me and causes me to celebrate the company. it is difficult to keep something going for a decade, a two decade, three decades, four decades. this is now 50 years old as a company and where the arts are concerned, that is a tough thing to pull off for 50 years. >> yes, absolutely. i think that the vision is very clear and very forward. in 1958, alvin ailey made a repertory company which made it at once about the past, present, and future. it was not just his repertory, he understood it was about a

community of people that he was trading. a huge family of people that choreograph. dancers, lighting designers, all these people found a home. i think that is the reason why because of the many, night one -- not one. tavis: how did you first connected? >> i was in the audience watching revelations at about 12 or 13 years old. tavis: that would do it. if you see revelations, that will do it. >> growing up in the church, my mother played piano for the church. i did my first speaking in the church. seeing revelations as a young person, i understood it. i got it. as a young person, it is important that you have got something. i feel that that image took me from florida to new york city. it was about that image, the

spirit that we are celebrating now, 50 years of revelations. a true masterpiece. tavis: what was your first professional relationship? >> my first professional relationship, i danced for the parsons dance company. david parsons allowed me to choreograph for the company. i knew the head of the second company since its inception. i invited her to see my work and she liked it and she invited me in 1999 to do my first work for our junior company. judith jamison saw that and told me to create for the main company. before that, when i was a student i was brought to lincoln center. in the summers, we did not have classes, so i was steady at the ailey school. i have always had this kind of relationship with ailey.

tavis: i was reading your story and i was amazed to learn that when you were a kid you had to wear braces on your legs. how do you go from wearing braces to flying through the air? >> yeah. i think that there was something about that because a lot of the reason why we are creative people is because we have restrictions. something that we have to overcome. then that creates the idea of possibility. so, i think it is and metaphor for what we do. we make a way out of no way or we have our few resources and we gathered them together and move forward. i think that there was something about that that was important. in the months i started moving, i never stopped moving. tavis: we met for the first time months ago in los angeles. ailey was coming through los

angeles. i always go see it on the first night. i was blown away by your piece that i saw for the first time. >> thank you. tavis: it is hard to talk about dance on television because you have to see it and feel it and television does not do justice. tell me about this peace, the hunt, that i saw for the first time. >> this came out of my martial arts background. i studied martial arts before a steady dance. i was a soprano in the church choir. i was into the arts. in my neighborhood, you had to kind of stepped up. i decided to take martial arts as a way of building some self- confidence. when i got into dance, i brought some of the same properties. the intensity of it is very visceral, very immediate, the percussion, and everyone relates to protection.

i created this work that has to do is some sense of competition and camaraderie and i wanted it to be four men. i wanted the skirts that almost like you go out fits in a way. i also was saying something about our masculine and feminine side and something about ritual. -- i wanted the skirts that almost were like judo in a way. watching people screaming the audits is not a bad thing. tavis: when you make reference to are massed in and feminine side, when you were growing up in the church choir singing soprano as you did, and you are dancing, does your man could get question in your neighborhood? >> yes, it did. many times. -- does your manhood get questioned in your neighborhood? >> yes, it did. i would have my dancing shoes, i had the tights, all of that, and

i had a hammer. [laughter] if i had a hammer. i was teased and taunted a little bit. i figured, this is not just for nails. i never had to use my hammer. i forgot the hammer was in their. it was questioned but i came from a background of people -- i was raised by my great uncle who lived until my second year of juilliard. i come from a strong people who believe in the freedom of expression and of course a culture that believes in that. the idea of overcoming adversity is something that is not unfamiliar. i was pretty stubborn about what i wanted to do and i did it anyway. tavis: we can start with the dance and we can talk about jazz.

art, jazz, sculpture, any number of different forms of art or genres of arc, i wonder if there are factors that are keeping young black men and young black women away from pursuing the arts can temporarily because they're not sexy, because it does not pay well. -- pursuing the arts in a contemporary fashion because they are not sexy, because it does not have well pay. is there a pull away friom the arts? >> i see a lot of people engaged in the arts. when we to our many performances across the country and win we are -- when we are bussed in

like the way i was and to hear people screaming in the audience. that goes directly against the idea. certainly, we always have to push against the notion of what celebrity means, this infatuation with material things. we are always fighting that. now with it being so rampant. just the other day, what does it mean to be fortunate? i think i have always been fortunate. we did not have a lot of money but this is not just monetary. it has to do with two people that raised me that cared about me. dusty williams played piano for the church choir. i was inspired by my preacher and here i am preaching. i have always been fortunate and we have to redefine what that means. >> you are going to be in

russia when you officially take over in july. you officially take over from mrs. jamison in july. how do you process that? >> i have never been to russia. there will be a takeover. this is so exciting. miss jamison is a remarkable lady. for me to not only be succeeding where but also to just learn from her and to be able to call her a friend, someone who i looked up to as an image is now so human to me and as a friend and confidante. this is awesome and i keep saying that. there are many young folks there and it was awesome. tavis: what is it that many years down the year from now, your legacy, do you know you

wanted to be? >> i want to know that i helped to foster the next generation of the dancers and i have inspired someone somewhere to do something great. i appreciate you coming on. robert battle, the new head of alvin ailey. coming up next, prof. khalil gibran muhammad, the new head of the schomburg center. khalil gibran muhammad is a professor of history at indiana university. he will take over as the new director of the schomburg center for research and black culture right here in harlem. it is an honor to have you on this program. >> it is an honor to be here. tavis: when my staff and i sat down for a meeting and we laid

out what we're going to do, i immediately said, get khalil gibran muhammad on the program. i am pleased that i got to talk to you and robert battle. you are both taking over as the head of iconic institutions. first of all, happy birthday. did you just turned 39? >> yes, i did. this is where i get to celebrate still being in my 30's. tavis: one more year. is this what you thought you would be doing it near 40? >> this is an opportunity that you cannot plan for. the schomburg center has had five directors over 80 years. i'm the first ph.d. to come out of the university. the senior or junior to me and say that we're going to be

director. in that regard, no. in other regards, this is an unprecedented opportunity to wed my passion for history and to disseminate knowledge. tavis: what does an academic background into this position bring? >> this brings this call the mission of the institution itself, awareness, sensitivity to the nature of scholarly research in a way that we must protect that production because that is the cornerstone of the education system. if the professors don't continue to figure out where we are going or where we have been, then we are not capable of passing on that knowledge to future generations. tavis: how did history become a passion, your choice? >> this is a complicated story but i will make it television

friendly. i was at the university of pennsylvania. i figured i would be a business person and make a lot of money. then the world crashed in on my college days. rodney king was first beaten and then acquitted in 1992 just weeks before the end of my junior year of college. at that point, i was fundamentally shaken by the position of being a young black man in america and really had a lot of unanswered questions about where i fit in the world and where the future help to me. then i went to grad school and o. j. simpson was on trial. that is what really gave me the start to focus on the history. tavis: my advancing in the world of the medications is so connected to those two very things. i live in los angeles, so the beating of rodney king opened up all opportunities for me to

become a commentator. the o. j. simpson case allowed that to burgeon. what strikes me about your answer specifically with regard to run the king, i am trying to figure out what the connect is with you and rodney king. you are an academic. rodney is writing down the street in a hyundai. your world are very different experiences you tell me that you are now connected with rodney king. >> i was not always an academic. i grew up on the south side of chicago, a largely segregated community. it was a working class family and i was deeply rooted in a family that carried about the least of these. going to college was really an opportunity to explore african- american culture in general. what we learned in the classroom was all the sudden being broadcast in television in terms of the beating itself.

in that way, the real world was more powerful than what was behind those books, but they were not disconnected. what drove me in academia was the pursuit of knowledge of how it is that we can live in a society that justifies this kind of thing. that of suffocated the idea that black life was cheaper? blackt hid the idea that life as cheaper. tavis: you are the grandson of elijah muhammad, i wonder if there is good and bad about that. >> on the good side, i get opportunities like this which is that people are curious. they think that history of the nation of islam gives me a kind of celebrity status just by virtue of being connected to one of the most significant black leaders in the 20s century. the bad side is that i'm expected to have learned some pearls of wisdom from my great-

grandfather who pass when i was about two and a half years old. sometimes, the pressure to live up to that legacy to have inside knowledge, i liken it to being a preacher's kid. these are usually the least informed by the work their parents are doing because it has something to do with the proximity and the intimacy as opposed to the conjugation -- congregation. tavis: you were taking over from howard dobson. i love what he has done. that is a pretty american name. these days you say muhammed and all kinds of conversations come up. i wonder if you can share with me how that name is wearing these days in america these days. what impact do you think it will help the -- it will have.

>> the first part of my name, khalil to braun -- gibran is paying huge dividends. i felt liberated when barack obama was elected president. i thought, if a man named barack obama can be elected, then i am free. i support the transition between mr. dobson and me and this has generated a lot of good will. if there are any haters out there in regards to my name, they have not yet appeared. tavis: what do you want to do with the schomburg center in terms of creating your legacy? >> i have serious concerns about the level of anti intellectualism in this country and the kind of post racial zeitgeist that both work against the interests of an institution dedicated to black history and

black culture. on the one hand, a lot of people read less and care less about a minute of the past and don't appreciate about learning the details of one's culture or society. on the other hand, the notion of post racialism finds us asking every february, is black history month at necessary any longer? when we arrive at the point where we don't translate these through the lens of the african eric in american -- through the lens of the african-american experience. this would be as ridiculous as not finding the revolutionary time an important part of what this country is about. i see the young people as the people that i need to invest in and to encourage stakeholders in the future of the institution. tavis: you are hopeful that

those young people be interested in what you just laid out given that there is this mantra that people like to offer up time and time again that because obama is president and because we do live in that post racial america, that there is no real need for the schomburg center, the kind of work that it does. they focus in on african- american history, african- american contributions. >> in many of these committees, the real world is crashing in on them like it did for me. there are high rates of poverty, continued segregation, failing schools, and a system that is unprecedented in its size. so, bringing the reality of both of those daily expenses in some of these communities with a deep commitment to both culture as a means of expressing one's position. hip-hop is a perfect example. also the sense of history and

helping those of people understand how those communities can to beat is their legacy. to be able to have a platform to encourage them to take ownership of that legacy is an unprecedented opportunity and the real heavy lifting that have to be done at this moment. tavis: you mentioned wynton marsalis. you mentioned wynton marsalis and jazz at the lincoln center. why people get that. you mention alvin ailey, why people get that. -- white people get that. i would like to close by asking what is the value for all of new york from the schomburg? >> we are becoming the world's

jailer and we have responsibility for investing and learning about this problem. more importantly, being someone that comes out of the community, i bring out a national network of those who are already committed. my job is to harness that those who are invested in the schomburg center and to encourage them to speak the good news about it. in that way, we make it not only the national organization is but also an international one. i plan on moving around a lot. speaking to many different audiences is part of drumming up the support. we do get the audiences that care about our cultural institutions. tavis: thank you. question gratulations on the 20th anniversary. -- >> congratulations on the 20 anniversary.

tavis: thank you very much. join us next time back in los angeles for a conversation with the deficit reduction committee, alan simpson. good night from new york, and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information visit tavis smiley on pbs. tavis: join me next time for the president's head of the deficit reduction committee, alan simpson. >> all i know is his name is james, and he needs extra help with his reading. >> i'm james. >> yes.

>> to everyone making a difference -- >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. with every question and answer, nationwide insurance is proud to join tavis in working to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- --www.ncicap.org--