>> r re:e:elcome toour program. tonight the financial markets with robert farzad and greg ip. >> certainly i've been hearing from democrats way on the left side who-- they rue the day that obama didn't ask for more in the honeymoon of his first 100 days, we needed a bigger stimulus, we needed more shovels at the ready. and now that they feel he's effectively abandoned the flank with these huge cuts and the deficit panel commission. it's somewhat of a no. win situation. but you have an opponent on the other side who cld promise economic bliss in the first 100 days. i doubt that as well. >> i think one of the problems we're having is because people are so mad at the way the financial sector dragged us into this they have responded too

quickly with tighter regulations and the sort of litigation that bank of america is dealing with. there may be a moral oregal case you would want to go in that direction but i think that's one of the problems we'll have to work our way through. >> rose: we finance with david boulet. >> i was of the generation of presenting ingredients, how should they taste? that's the way it was in the 80s. now, since the 90 anniversary pass asked we're already another decade beyond that, where i am today, i'm learng more about how flavor and taste canbe optimal but even higher levels of interest is the nutritional value. >> rose: financial markets a staurants. when we continue.

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from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: following packed are yogillette european sovereign dk center in the minds of investors around world and there is renewed mess pimp about the rate of u.s. economic growth. joining me from washington is greg ip with me here in new york. robert farzad, senior writer for "bloomberg businessweek." i am pleased to have both of them on this program on this friday. >> hi, how are you? >> rose: have you brought us bad news again? >> i'm jt looking at the tape right now. the market is sort of xed as we're speaking now. but, yeah, it's been another rough week in the markets and economy. >> rose: just for the viewers' sake it is 12 noon eastern time as we record this.

go ahead. what's happening and what do you thk the forces at work are? >> i think the number one thing going on is the same thing that's been drag the marts down for several weeks now is people are recalbrighting their views on where the u.s. economy is going. if you asked people about a month or two ago how fast would the economy grow in the second half of the year, i probably would have heard 3%, and now they're saying morelike 1 to 1.5%. it is still not the main view that the u.s. economy will fall back into session but people think the odds of that happeni are somewhere 30%, to 40%. things like unemployme inrance claims, retail sales in july, iustrial production, were actually on the relatively good side. the thing you kind of worry about in a period like this is a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is the fear generated by the markets falling so much, it self-paralyzes people, stops business from investing and hiring and stops people from spending and that causes the expected weakness to almost

become self-fulfilling. >> rose: is there anything you can do to change that self-fulfilling prossee? >> markets don't go down foreve they get cheap enough, especially relative to bonds, those stocks are worth buying. we might see that happen any day now, any hour. and stability in the markets is helpful for helping people catch their breath. the other thing is if people take a closer look at some of the economic data they might realize, again, what we're dealing with right now, the base case, a slower growing economy, not an economy falling back into recession. as far as measures that can be taken to try to help the economy if it's really much weaker, we are, unfortunately, kind of running out of ammunition. the federal reserv last week gave us sort of the surprise announcement it promised to hold interest rates near zero for two more years. if they feel that's not ough they could, for example, change the mix of bonds they hold and favor more long-term bonds. that would have the effect of pushing long-term terest rates lower. that would encourage people to buy riskier things that might

help the housing market. i think even the fed woulddmit at this point that's a relatively marginal benefit. much more helpful would be a big dose of fiscal stimulus, provided that was combined with a rational plan to get our debts under control over the long term. unfortunately, the polarization that we witnessed in washington the last few months make that at aren't probably not a good bet. >> rose: do you agree with him in terms of where the markets are, the acsense of confidence, people unsure of what's going on and a fear and almost aparalysis? >> i do, and the fear being self-fulfilling. again, the quiver is bare. the fed has done everything except throw the kitchen sink at this problem. i almost joked maybe mr. bernanke wanted to espouse qualitative. what can you do? we had our credit rating downbraided two weeks ago, and you would think that the bond investors would punish the united states, and yet we have interest rates at a record low. that should be smoking pple out of ch. it's prohibitively difficult to sit on bank deposits yielding

nothing and yet the stock market is falling with it. at some point there has to be a realization that there's an opportunity cost in having money lose value this real terms. >> rose: when you make that judgment, what will you do? the hope is, i think, you know, the fed can't come out and explicitly say, this but people feel the animal feelings of investing and rehire. it isn't there right now. it's cash for cash's sake. it's almost a sh fetish, and it's hard to dispel, disabuse people of this fashion in the short term. >> rose: so we need demand. >> yes. >> rose: and you share the opinion that economic growth may sink not to 3% or 4% but 1 to 2. >> yeah, 1 to 2. there are worries about a double dip. it's almost flattering yourself to think double dim. we never had a recovery in earnest to the time of eight million or nine million jobs to dig us out of what we came from originally. it a plodding economy but

that's been old news for a while. >> rose: back to you, greg, this terms of stimulus and what the president can can do. he is going to martha's vineyard, to think, work on a new economic plan which he will announce in september. what options does he have and what the expectation in washington that he might do? >> well, he's been pretty clear for some months now about what sort of options he has in mind. number one, there's the payroll tax cut implemeed last december. it expires at the end of this year. if that happened you would get an automatic tightening of fiscal policy in january and hurt consumer spending. he would like that extended for perhaps another year and perhaps expanded cutting the taxes paid by the employers, not just the employees. he would like to extend enhanced unemployment insurance benefits so those coming to the end of their regular employment benefit do have a few more weeks, and that would support spending. finally, he would like to have a burst of public spending-- infrastructure, work on highways and roads and rail and that sort

of thing, an infrastructure bank. what are the odds of any of this happening? i would have said a few weeks ago they were extreme patrick leahy. we saw strong resistance in congress by the republicans to anything that looked like stimulus. but reality on the ground has a way of changing people's perceptions and willingness. and i think one of the things that this sell-off in the markets and this rash of worst economic news is going to change the dynamic in washington. much as republicans are very concerned about the debt and want to act on that quickly, they're also aware that not just the jobs of their constituents but their own jobs rely on a growing economy, and i think that in coming weeks they might start to see the appeal of some more stimulus in a way that they didn't before. the big question is how does that happen? there are a couple ways. it could be combined in the delineations of the so-called super committee right now meeting to try to find $1.5 trillion in deficit cuts over the coming decade. it wouldn't abe bad deal to trade off the0-year reduction in deficits for some short-term

stimulus. and the noises that you hear out of washington nowre, you know, positive, relative to how discouraging ty've been in the past. you do not sea least i haven't seen yet-- people on either side drawing lines in the nd suggesting it will be impossible to get some kind of a al. >>im worried, though and there seems to be-- this is where the devil was in the details with the s & p downgrade and the apparent $2 trillion error-- what happens with the sunsetting of the bush tax cut. is that something the republicans hold as leverage. they say if you want fiscal stimulus you better not think about ratcheting these real estates back up. these are assumptio built into deficit projections -- >> it would only ratchet those rates over $250,000. it wouldn't ratchet up the middle class, would he? >> this is what i'm very curious about. he didn't seem to come out of the situation two weeks ago, three weeks ago with a lot of leverage. how do theygird for battle

ahead of november 2012. this is something the bond markets are going to take increasing focus on. if there's another war of attrition over deficit ledger demand again, do we finally see bond rates shoot up? and how would that affect the appetite for risk. it's painful to be in cash. what's going to happen when you get utter, utter paralysis in the face of a need for fiscal stimulus. >> rose: what is the impact on europe? >> europe is this whole other thing across the pond. you thought this would have been cordoned off in the sing of 2010 when greece got its bailout but it emanates out to portugal, ireland. today the headlines are pretty amazing you're talking about what was kind of unthinkable in this phase of the european evolution as sort of a national sovereign debt union where everybody's faults are effectively linked together. the currency is already linked but imagine germany is effectively, formally called fair public bailout of the debts of these poorer days in southern europe-- greece, italy.

this is pretty unpress departmented. it's where you worry about seeing rioting in the streets if you stick it sothe german and france taxpayer how does it play out when it's supposed to be the sleepy holiday period and we have huge convulsions in the international bond market? >> rose: and the banks in debt who loaned a lot of money to these sovereign governments? >> that's right. it effectively again pitts the banks against the taxpayers, the german banks who don't want have to to take a haircut on is debt. you don't want to have a siation where angela merkel is going to have to ask the german taxpayers to subsidize the banks, or tarp them in their teutonic way. this is already being implied but to have it codified and formalized at this stage where there's a fork in the road, we double down on this experiment or scr it. >> rose: how do you think the chinese see it? >> it must be a great sitcom for them out east. >> rose: i think they may be

going from look at the sitcom to worrying whether the sitcom reach theirs shores. >> what can they do? stop supporting the dollar? i challenge an economist-- a mckenzie consultant-- whoever to come and unpeel this onion for me. i can't understand it. do the chinese want to punish us? should they send our rates higher but in the end bludgeon their own economy. >> rose: greg, jobs, where does washington believe jobs will come from that might be viewed as necessary for any kind of political success for the president some. >> isesome is-- it comes down co getting demand. that's why the president talked about getting the package of initiatives through early next year. i think the tough thing for him, in some case theest-case scenario is he gets enough new

measures through that you don't have this automatic tightening of fiscal policy in january that would otherwise occur. to actually add-- to actually get enough stimulus through that you add to the impetus early next year i think is a much, much tougher thing. again, you almost have to have the facts on the ground change in a dire enough directn to get the political and the policy momentum shifted i that direction. i thk, however, that there might be somhing positive that'seing missed here which is that it may be that the unrlying economy is a little bit healthier than the panic that we're seeing in the stock markets is hinting. one thing that's worth pointing to is when you go into recession, you usually pull the in that direction by some sort of volatile sectors-- namely, housing, automobiles, and inventories. these are the things that companies and households often decide to past buying because they're a little bit worried and they can wait a little longer. those three things are already kind of at recession levels. housing has been flat on its back for a couple years it's

hard to imagine how it can get lower than it alady is. if you will, the dry kindling that often supplies the initial imtus into a recessiois not there. so that imparts a degree of resilience in the economy they think is not generally appreciated. that said, that'not the stuff of which a powerful rebound is made, either. but some of the more structural problems we' been face since we went into recession and crawled out a couple of years ago, namely, the high levels of debt that consumers and banks are carrying, we're dealing with those. we've acally made some progress getting that leverage down, and & if you look at surveyof banks, they're more willing to lend, except on mortgages, than they have this some years. the's not a lot of evidence that small businesses consumers want to buy a car are havingrouble getting a loan. that's an encouraging thing. in some sense it comes back to confidence. if people actually believe things are going to get better, they do have the means and the cash to spend. >> yet, you look at bank of

america. they say situation that's also kind of an irritant in the market for the past several weeks. the stock, i believe last checked was at $7. you have the c.e.o. divesting whole parts of the system saying mortgage write-downs are anything to be larger, they're dealing with lawsuits on their hands. the idea that this injects september 2008 flavor into what we're experiencing right in what should be a sleepy month. >> rose: what's the asset value of bank of america? >> there's debt value there. the market capitalization has been cut in half this year. i don't have the number in front of me, but the worry is that this is, obviously, a "too big to fail" situation. in the beginning of the year the discussion was were they going to have enough to pay a dividend. now it is are they going have enough to cope the ship together without a divestiture. this is a systemic concern and you would think as an american consumer and banking customer this has all been three years behind us. >> rose: if there is a lack of

confidence, is the ble for the uncertainty laid equally at the door of the president and the congss in terms of people's expect station how they may vote? >> although we love in this town to point fingers and find somebody to blame, the hard reality is that a lot of the difficulty we're going through is almost reoained by the nature of the crisis and the recession that we went through. we have seen lots of examples, not only in american history but the history of other countries -- whether japan, scandinavia-- when you go through a crisis as deep and protracted as we did the recovery is always week. you have a lot of people with too much debt and paying down that debt saps a lot of demand you look to for growth. look, you hear a lot of complaints about the policy process, there's too much uncertainty, the fed doing this crazy exotic stuff. go back to '82, all right? we had come through a revere recession. reagan cut taxes and raised then repeatedly. the fed was experimenting with targeting the money supply and then junked that.

we had uncertainty gore. but the economy roared back to life because it was not held back by all this debt, and the fed which basically caused the recession by raising interest rates sky high was able to get them down really low. those are two big differences between then ask now. unfortunately it, doesn't really matter who is in the white house, whether it's barack obama or rick perry or whoever, they would probably be dealing with a really tgh situation like is. ve they made it worse with the perverication and polarization? probably. i don't think being railed of that would magically crte a 4% economic recovery with unemployment coming down dramatically. >> i agree. this is an unpress departmented balance sheet recession. it's not immediately a jobs driven thing. it was driven by a shock and the doubling of the unemployment rate -- >> isn't the argument made this those who look at economic history, this was a economic collapse and crisis and recession that came out of the financial sector and recessions that are driven from the financial sector, generally have

a different dimension in terms of recoverthan other kinds. >> true, but you still want to take it out on somebody. you still feel lsy going into the polling booth next year. are you going to take your anger out on the tea party-driven republicans or a president viewed as feckless in the process. certainly i've been hearing from democrats way on the lt side, they rue the day obama didn't ask for more in the honeymoon of his first 100 days ask that we need a bigger stimulus, we eded more shovels at the ready. and now they feel he has effectively abandoned the flank with these huge you can and deficit panel commission. it's somewhat of a no-win situation. you have an opponent on the other side who could promise economic bliss in the first 100 days. i cut that as well. >> i think one of the problems we're having is because people are so mad at the way the financial sector dragged us into this, they have responded too quickly with tight regulations and the sorts of, you know, litigation that bank of america is dealing with. there may be, you know, a moral or legal case for why you want

to go that direction but i don't think there's any doubt that's one of the things holding lending back. i think that's one of the problems we're going to haveto work our way through. >> rose: the other issue for me is where is the lending being held back? is it at the "too big to fail" bank whether j.p. morgan, bank of america or others, or is it the regional banks out in the country and they are not doing the lending to those small businesses that generate jobs? >> it's hard to say. if you surveyor the banks, most of them, large and small, say they're prepared to make consumer loans, small business loans. there was a survey done by on of the fedal reserve banks thatsked their small banks how much of an issue is increased regulatory scrutiny. some said it's not an issue, some said it is an issue but we deserve it. but a quarter said worrying about what the regulators and supervisors are going to say about the loan i'm thinking about making i holding me back.

i think it's important for the regulatory community to realize there's a risk of having been too neglectful in the run-up of the crisis swinging too far in the opposite dection right now. >> all of that said, breath, charlie, cash costs nothing. citybank thinks it's doing me a favor that it pays me half a percent on my money market account. you should be able to find risk-rard situaon where's you can loan out the money that costs nothing for five, six points. this speaks to a true worry in the economy that there aren't people out there who are good for the money and it's a gridlock. what can the fed do? you can't take rates down lower than zero. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, greg, again. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: chef and restaurateur david boule is here. as frank bruny once wrote in the "new york times," the man can cook. he learned from the best. his french-born grandmother who hosted cooking sessions every sunday at her rhode island farm.

his restaurant empire in new york's tribeca neighborhood centers around his flagship bulou. and his newest restaurant is in osacajapan called brush stroke. i'm pleased to have david boule back at is table? how long has it been, 20 years? >> 20 years. >> rose: where have you been and what have you been doing? >> thank you for having me back. >> rose: opening restaurants, closg restaurants. >> opening, expanding, evolving. >> rose: what do you think you've learned since you were last at this table? >> in those days i had come froi wear the chef's jacket, which i never wanted to do when i was younger. i never went to cook school and i i was focused on what i grew up on, the farm nature. and i was the generation of presenting ingredients, how should they taste? that's what it was ithe 80s. since the 90s have passed and

we're another decade beyond that, where i am today, i'm learning more about how flavor and taste can be optimal but even higher levels of interest is the nutritional value. >> rose: we had a conversation before the cameras went on in which i said i somebody would plan my meals for the rest of my life, and do it well with a sense of nutrition as well as good taste, i'd be happy to make that deal today. >> well, as i was saying -- >> and you said to me-- >> i learned a few years ago that there is a man who has done very well, and he's investing a lot inhe laboratories in southern california ere they can put a cell in the body and let it travel and make an analysis. and he told me that now with the test of a d.n.a you can have your total d.n.a. done and understand where you're going to be vulnerable, too, this your whole lifespan. as a young person, he believes that one day, this young person

who will leave the doctor's office, cross the hall, and go into the chef's office so he can learn how to make all the things that he's told he should eat to change his d.n.a. future and how to make them taste good. so he believes that the chefs and the doctor's office are going to be across, probably where they were at one point. >> rose: did you eat well? >> i eat extreme well i decided this year-- for a number of years now, since i started to work on the project that i was going to make myself a guinea pig. so i've got myself off of blood pressure. my cholesterol is 140. i have been able to do things that everyone wouldn't believe i could. >> rose: a combination of exercise, thu trician, and stress-free. >> clearly, it's all slices of the pie, but i put all my energy into diet the last three, four years. prior i was working out probably too much. creating too much trauma for my body. so i decided to totally stall that and focus on really what

are the ramifications, what kind of results can i get from paying attention to diet and they're huge. they're amazing. >> rose: we'll come back to some biological stuff, which is interesting about you going to france and coming back here and the people that you learned from and the people that you taught, some of the best names in cooking. brush stroke, what is this about? >> so brush roke -- it'a project, first. >> the project was-- when i closed the original boule in 1996, i was invited to cook for throyal family in thailand because the queen had eaten in the restaura and we went over. and the owner of the cooking school, his father started it about 50 years ago. he later won the regional honor from the french government and many, many other awards with what he's done with education. an amazing man. but this man used to work in new york for howard stein and it is howard stein who has been teaching me -- >> the financier? >> exactly. so mr. sewagey knew that i was

available. i didn't have a restaurant. so come early, we're going to teach you japanese cook. so we went two and a half weeks early, and he organized nine professors and about 12 assistants and we were, four of us-- five of us-- and he had us cooking from 7:00 and eating until 12:00, but going to the best resuran, cook all day long. we made dashe for three days and then we went to all these places like the gluten factory that supplies the monks. we went to the miso factory, all the principals of the foundation of japanese cook. over the years, onekay, he and i started testing. i would go there with my team, and we would test in osacawhere his biggest school is. he has 5,000 students, the biggest cooking school in the world. and he would come to m test kitchen kitchen in new york, three, four professors. but we never had a mission. we were just having fun. one day in tokyo when he was

telling me now that the ardisino ingredient are becoming available outside japan, where you would be surprise what tha means. even soy sauce in japan has to be kept in a refrigerator because there's living bacteria so it's good for your body. our soy sauce is in an oklahoma for nine years before it's delivered and it's probably not even in a tepid room. 64 it's the kyoto-style cook. there's a huge repertoiref hethy eating is what he had been asked to consult the world on, where he was consulting earlier, souce and sasalemme, now they're asking to teach us about the kisekiook. and he said businesses are starting to realize, paicularly this america and in new york, that people will notice the difference between

this soy sauce. they understand the difference. and so the retailer, the importer, the chef ofthe restaurant, are buying more higheruality aritousinal ingredients. therefore, those schefts from kyoto and the other chefs who rely on those seasonal, 20 seasons, will now leave japan. whereas fore you h a sushi chef who could be on the coast with a sharp knife and present an amazing art. the aritousinal cooking chefs, they wouldn't leave without the ingredients. so he is being attracted from dubai to rome to paris to brazil, and he was explaining this to me. and i said you used to live in new york and we have all those people in new york. why don't we open a restaurant in new york? he can't open a restaurant in japan. in three, four years, all the data, the three professors we have here in new york, the five that are allocate on the project in japan, a total of eight employees that he has, and three to four years, this will be a

graduate program in his school for those chefs who want to cook with the same integrity and purity outside of japan. >> rose: located here in new york. >> outside of japan. >> rose: and so what-- how did-- when did you decide to create the restaurant? >> well, that was seven years ago at we had that conversation and we both looked at each other and said this is great. ask so his students who are going to take this extra graduate two years will now choose where they'll cook but with the same levels that they would cook in jan, hopefully outside. >> rose: just for the sake of how is it different of other cooking schools, other culinary institutes, whether it's paris or new york or wherever it might be? >> well, the sji cooking school started by teaching only french this japan because mr. suji ate at a restaurant for about two years straight, and one day they

said this weekend you're not eat nig restaurant. we made a reservation for you. one of our chef has opened a restaurant. and you will eat there. over the years tgrew into italian, and it grew into chinese and of course japanese. and then in the 80s, when we had the economy so strong in japan, buying rockefeller center and everything else, they also incorporated, imported cultures of food, the italian and the french went to japan. and there followed white wines, red wines and that compelled sake to behat it is today. sake would be still something you drink to get drunk, made in huge stainless steel wins thout any of the detail we have today. >> rose: what is it today? >> now you have a sake that can be extremely long, full of floral, all kinds of

complexities because basically rice is protein with carbohydrates. the more they remove the rice, we call polishing the rice, the carbohydrates are more present. carbohydrates are sugar. carbohydrates without the protein, like we have sugar in wine, throh fmentation will present what we have in today's sake. they're on the synergy to the process of making wine. in fact, what happened just this year is one of the top champagne families with they pulled the champagne out of the kegs, put it met bottle, cocked the keg, put it on the plane and next day ship it to japan and putting sake into the champagne kegs. so we have a new market that will be a cmpagne sake. their cuisine is evolving and our cuisine is evolve, and we learned a lot about technique. for instance, the albuoy restaurant that just closed two days ago. there's a chef i helped this year because when he came to new york he asked me to cook for him

after his presentation here in new york about why he was closing. i spent a little more me with him this year than the last several years. there's a restaurant he admis in tokyo where you can't me a reservation. two tablees, four seats. >> rose: two tablees, four seats. one serving? >> only one seating. that's a normal-size kyoto-size restaurant. but that chef went to cook at elboue. and he had his staff outside ask over the hill was going to be coming a car and a van and over came the car and the van and two tractor trailer trucks. one was full of 500 kilos of water from fuji mountain. so us western chefs are learning a lot about why would he transport all that water to spain? and when i went back after he cooked in spain, i was eating and it was explained to me he wasn't happy with the fish. i had already heard-- and it

wasn't that he wasn't happy with the quality of the fish. but in japan, when they kill a fish, which is usually always alive when you eat it-- they cut thspinal cord and they tap the tail. and what happens is cutting the spinal scoreboard the fishidize immediately, so you have no trauma like we take care of our animals. and then they put it in ocean water far the least three hours. in the water there's a lot of oxygen-- remember biology class with the arm of the frog moving two days after and you think it's still alive? it pushes the muscle and makes the muscle move for hours more, cleanses out the fish. i did this at the johnson & johnson estate in cape cod with fours a few years ago with striped bass. we were on the boat and the chefs are killing the fish. that night we held the stripped bass, and i had two fishermen come to table, five generations they never saw that before. you see we're not just learning abouhealthy omlets. we're learning about techniques and so finally we have

application. in the 80s in new york, wasabi wasn every potato pura. we didn't understand the cuure, the profound culture of the japanese ask now the western world is. >> rose: you found that in kyoto? >> you find it particularly if kyoto. that's the oldest club because the emperor was there before they moved the cap tool tokyo. so kyoto is blessed like in the south france you have the geographic basket of everything there-- the mountains, everything. and that's the oldest part of cooking in japan. >> rose: how many accepts cothey have in kyoto? >> in japan they celebrate 20 seasons particularly in a place like kyoto. >> rose: 20 seasons. >> 20 seasons. >> the other tractor trail truck was filled with furniture to set each room. it was totally transformed. >> rose: are you equally admiring of pern has been in

terms of the technique and the cooking? >> if you look at a lot of things-- every now and then i show my wife-- we were reading in the berkshires a few days ago, and i said, look, there's this, there's that, there's that. all these have in a repertoire of a very creative mind that took-- 100 years ago the industry was aloning how to make an english muffin from the chef. they made an oil cook frea chef from england. the fig newton is another recipe. over these years, the industry perfected recipes like this on large volumes of scale. now, pern is one of the geniuses that have taken a lot of what they have done, but some thug are very althy. lethicin is in all the health food stores-- it's an emulsifier-- and put it in a chef's kitchen.

there's a lot of good things-- i admire him. i tell people that he is like beethoven in a way. he's creating the instruments o which other chefs can play their own music. and he's leaving that behind. so he created a lot of new techniques. that he-- and he's extremely sharing and generous-- that other chefs can express themselves through, possibly this a different way. but he's leaving that in our long chain of gastronomy and that i think he's a genius. >> rose: he invite meade to come before he close exclude said, "just come." >> did you go? >> rose: no, i didn't i and i deeply regret it. >> he'll be doing other things. >> rose: july 31, wasn't it? >> yes this weekend. >> announcer: thought of it on the thirst. >> that will be very exciting for you to understand the foundatione's workin on. >> re: so back to brush stroke. it's opened. you're not the chef.

>> no. yamata. he's also a student from suji school that went to work with khikho, challenging the top restaurant this kyoto, eight years. and then he opened his own little restaurant and he wanted to come to new york, his dream. he went to the suji school at the time we decided to do this project and suddenly we have the first candidate and so dihis visa ask brought him in. >> rose: when you're home in the berkshires what, do you cook? >> it's interesting. i'm cooking-- this is the first year that i decided to become a farmer, so i'm farming one acre. and i have a lot more respect for those guys and women that i compelled them over the 80s to do so many things. so many things we did. i'm eating a lot of things -- >> so eating what you grow. >> yeah. and i brought seeds in from all over the world ask i'm testing these different kind of things year a i'm growing-- i have

3500 tomatoes . >> rose: so the harvest time is in the summer? >> we're starting to get certain things, young vegetablees, the lettuces, but i will cook very often what i've learned from kyoto, which could be a kashy, a base, and mix it with rice. >> rose: is kasaki, is it analogous to anything we know. >> you know well and you have had many chefs who, like me, are children of the renaissance of france which we called nouveau keysine. the nouveau cuisine chefes were going to japan in the 60s and 70s. and these chefs were totally inspired but they didn't bring back and interject like we do sometimes a different culture. they maintain their own integrity and it took until really now for chefs to start using some ingredients.

you see dashi, miso. but it created a menuhere you pick from one group, from one group, and it was called prefi now you have the kiseki layout of the menu. kiseki menu, 600 years old from a tea ceremony. that's what we focus on here in brush stroke. we serve sushi and. but the restaurant is only tasting men use likeou would have in kyoto. you go into a restaurant-- you never see awe menu in these restaurants. you sit down and you ask if there's something and you're served. and the health benefits-- in the series of the dishes are very important. you start with certain raw vegetables- this goes back to ance. you have countryet tebecause it stimulates enzymes in the mouth. and then you have a simmer dish,

and then vetable broth, but everything is down to the point where you have your tempura, a fried dish and a vinegar dish to alleviate any kinds of fats and finish with starches. a lot of the same synergies of a french tasting menu. when mr. fuji was in new york, and they did the preseation at the french culinary school, at my place, upstairs, he ate five nights out of the eight nights in new york and mr. suji was there and he brought all the chefs and they filled up the glass ask all the spanish chefs were looking at him, tell us what is kasaki? how does it work? because of because us westerners don't understand it. >> rose: the question i just asked. >> there's a science to the digestion of it. those are the laws. and the second part of itis fine tuning in season. outside of that you have total

independent freedom, be as prolific as you wish, as personal as you wish, but maintain the series of how your body functions and stay to mother nature. >> rose: how many tables do you have at rush stroke? >> we have a total of 47 seats including the counter where you can watch the chef and six or seven tables. >> rose: so you have more than two tables. >> we have a lot more than we thought. but it's working well. it's exciting. it's been interesting. i started to think about how would i convey all these health benefits in the first month, lieu reid, who is a friend, is a diabetic, he was eating a dessert they make because his friends from hong kong had the full tasting menu but he only wants two of these desserts -- he shouldn't have any-- i make it with tangerine and lichi, and granulated honey. and he went home and tested his insulin and he said it was so low he tested it again, and it was low. two days later they were calling

me in my boule kitchen. he said you don't understand it was really low. so i started thinking, i already know the one starch they use called kzu, extremely good for the body, is probably responsible because it works as insulin. it passes sugarnto a cell wall so he can absorb sugar. you can see that in almost every ingredient in the last seven years. that's what got me totally seduced by the kasaki method, the health benefits are like none on the globe. we know women are the longest living. >> rose: for a long time, japanese had less heart disease and it was assumed because they ate more roteen and less fatty foods. >> their roteen is different, though. their protein comes from soy, and we thi protein-- by the way, steak is 17% protein. to few is 44%. >> rose: fish is proteen, too.

>> it depends on the fish but it's in the 20s. soy products are in the 40s, more than double. >> rose: what is the reason for the japanese over a certain period of time having less heart disease? >> i don't know. we've been focusing more on the cancer issues. the heart disease was very popular to understand japanese culture years ago when we were all trying to figure out how we were going to keep our heart running. we've been working more on cancer. and i met with a woman last week who owns a tea family that goes back to 400, 500 years and she was with one of the ministers of culture here, japanese from the consule, with me at brush stroke, and they were explaining to me-- first of all, i thought i don't know where you're ything to sell that tea because you have a bottle of tea that looks like bottle of chablis and it's $2,000, and i don't thk we're ready for that yet. i satith her later and talked about all the tea. as we know, tea is one of the fundamentals of health today.

and everyone is talking about it-- even the french fellow that died last week that maintained 20 years more with cancer of the brain, in the "new york times" last week, discussed he focused more on the green tea. but then we go out and rush out and buy green tea and make a huge error because there's no one teaching us-- that's what we want to do at brush stroke. green tea, it we use boiling water, we create something that has practically nothing in terms of health benefits. and she was explaining in her region in japan, the lowest temperature, 145-155 degrees, and the studies that were coming in the last 18 months in japan is that they have the lowest cancer rate. and she explained why. amino acids the taurine, the benefits of green tea arct low temperature the body can absorb them at a higher rate, closer to 90%. as you increase the temperature of the water, caffeine starts kicking in. so you start getting a little bit jittery if you are boiling the water and reduce the potential of the nutrients. so it's not just about the

ingredients today. i think a lot of people want to understand, ingredient is important when you look at different cultures how they're living but you have to understandome knowledge about the culture and green tea is a perfect example. one of the things i have learned, is i work with waitman's food store and i love working with them and they have a tea success. every tea pot they sold had a thermometer in it just to make sure that if you were going to take this tehome, we want you have to the results that you should have. that's one of the biggest problems in today's, i think, attraction to how shieat healthier? what i do need? we listen too much to something that's worked for someone else. like the gluten today. a big problem with graduate gluten. it's not a problem with the wheat. it's the problem with the fact they took everything out of the wheat down to the core anddded a few thing io it so they can do the shelf table food that lasts forever. you eat too much of that product you have a problem. if you're eating higher quality-- same thing with salt. i have salt here that i was

going to leave with you. this is salt from the -- >> this is sat? >> you know there are 81 minera, 81. >> rose: where is this from? >> nepal. when i do a cook class, always the hand comes up, "chef, what kind of salt do you suggest we use in? one day i had a foal from yale who wrote a book on salt. so he stood up and first, "let me make one thing perfectly clear, everything that you hear says don't eat st. they're not talking out that" what i had on the table-- "they're talking about sodium chloride. without that, you can't live. in fact now they're talking about the pure salts, if you gratthem a simple greater, you will have lower blood pressure. i brought in greater to show you how it works. grate to and you probably have

lower blood pressure and not higher. where we are with brush stroke is to try through my test kitchen to educate people to really what is their effort? how do they succeed this their efforts to hava aealthier-- particularly, most of the people taking our cooking classes are in the baby boom area, and this area, they have the energy. they have the confidence. they've been successful. they want -- >> like 60? >> they're all in the late 50s and 60s, late 60s. i learn a lot from them. >> rose: so brush stroke is the is not only going to be a place for good to do, nutritional food but also a place for teaching? >> we were going to put the ipad on all the tables and say google all these ingredients that are in this cooking and we thought, maybe we'll do that later. what we will do is down two blocks later have a big test kitchen where we doectures and classes and people come from all over the world there. and we want to start get,--

getting people to understand, unlike other movements-- like the soy product. you so much soy milk in stores today which is not always so good and not good for males, produces too much estrogen, we shouldn't be eating so much of that. but the other ingredientes, like the tea, if you understand how to use them, there's an application you will see change. >> rose: does cook having the same joy for you? >> absolutely. i dream about cook constantly. it's still-- i don't know. to make it very quick where my years ofevolution now-- because it's 42 years i'm cook, right. so i started at 15. i had just turned 15. and i was working with two canadian chefs in new england. fell in love with it. but my grandmother was the first to teach me and i was the height of the door when it opened and she was waisting a rabbit and she gave me the spoon to waist but i missed and start aid fire.

and later i realize when i had had a little knowledge from my rents and grandparents i shared it with my friends-- there was a lot of power in th, sharing good food with people who didn't know so much about it was an amazing ambivalent. later, as i continued getting involved this things, growing up on farmland, i learned ingrednts -- my grandparents had a huge farm with pheasants and rabbits and ma their own wine, and they had goat milk because my grandfather couldn't toll rat lactose. i became a chef of products, they were so important to me, and at that time-- this was 30 years ago in new york-- we didn't have the products and i used to come back and forth from france to try figure out where can i get the products? today, over the years, i still have, you want to taste something you really love? i get excited when you're happy but on the other hand i want to make sure i'm make you healthier. >> rose: that's your own sense

of mission. >> my own life, where i am today, i want to share the things i'm learning. d of i have learned a lot. un, i work with different nutritionists. i am working with russ embarrassia. he just did a book her we're all focused on children. he did a book for children, kids-. >> rose: the first lady is involved this. >> exactly. we had different with andre, a think attention group of people and it came up, is the food future in the youth today? and the answers were no. they think it's all in the baby boomers. the baby boomers are still going to prove thattheir lifestyle sort of diet, a living-- not just like we talked about, with many slices of the pie-- health, exercise, relaxation, the spiritual times-- music,

whatever you choose-- that all these componts will continue to breathe youth into. and the youth today are more challenged because of allergies and all these different concerns when the baby boomers didn't have to deal with. the assumption was at the end of the table, the baby boomers are still not finished. >> rose: they have something to prove. >> one ph.d. said they're still going to use every brain cell they still have left and roll out something we're all going to learn from. so brush stroke is sort of a model a-- a very deep model way serious partner, a cook school that does an incredible amount of research and they have different groups all over japan, universities that work with them, to produce a dining experience this new york that hopefully will create some curiosity, like we did 30 years ago. gee, i never tasted a peach like that before. well, that's because we ripened it right on the tree 30 years ago. it wasn't look a had rock and

shipped. so the ingredients compelled a lot of people to change what they demand, what they sought out, and today we want to educate people and young people and i think one of the most exciting parts is to get them to have a garden, to get out in the country, to tasteore ingredients and to understand more about certain curls, like the cretes, or the french diet. still everyone says the french diet is still one of the-- not long ago we did a bank wet. i think it was a law firm. but we had people from paris, london, and new york. in my test kitchen. when the kitchen is open-- it's for foodies. we cofunctions where they can see everything made. i could hear them talking and i started thinking some of these guys are better cooks than me. but i heard them talking about what was happening in england and france, where they had a style of lecture about me novels and they were talking, the english, saying we created the pyramid, scientific diet. wenow we maden error, and

the americans followed us. and the french said, we never really-- that wasn't something for us. but over the series went on, and how they closed it. at the end of each end of my stove were english folks and french folks and new yorkers were standing there and they were going back and forth and i'm in the middle cook and they were saying, "if you remember how it closed--" the french people said-- "you english asked us how do you folks eat the cheeks the but eall those things that you eat? you ha the lowest obesity in europe?" >> rose: and their answer was. >> "it's true. we do. we choose the best quality and the best quality" -- >> and they don't eat as much. >> the best quality gives you true satisfaction. europe not digging. but the third thing-- "we enjoy it." that's so important. >>ose: and they make it int into-- it's not rushed. >> no. >> rose: it's an experience to eat slow which is also beneficial. >> digesting that's why when you

see what they're doing next, it's not just the chefs. there are architects. there's designers. musicians. everyone that's involved in the ceremony of dining will be contributing to the foundation. the foundation is more out the entire-- all these art elements. and boule, i'm going through a big transformation of boule over the next three weeks, and i decided i'm going to be cooking differently. i made this little room where i'm going too out and for 12, 15 people, and each time i go out, i plate the dish. but i come out with my wagon of ingredients and powders and spices and say smell this. and then i'm going to cook in front of them. we're also bringing the art world in. what seduced me was 1976, i went to rose vergey, and they said mr. verg is waiting for you. i went out to the terrace, and i see boltaro, foal on, ces, all

at community art world, and i was studying art in paris, and i remember thinking, i don't know restaurants like this in amera. so my constant appetite or mission wato try to bring not just food to the table but the tire ceremony. and we're work with italian sculptures and different artists and we'll have the art world in boule like i saw in 1976. >> rose: good for you. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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