>> rose: welcome to our program. we begin this evening with the archchitect moshe safdie. >> you break down the scale so it's more identifiable. you make buildings that you can find your way around, whether it's a big airport or whether it's a mega-hospital or residential mixed use that is rising all over china and india and so on. these are the issues of the moment, and how to do it with limited resources-- with less energy, with materials that are replenishable. and i'm not saying all of this should not uplift the spirit and be sculptural and exciting, but it's how you get there and what the priority is. >> rose: we continue with talk about nfl and professional

football's upcoming season with jerry jones, the owner of the dallas cowboys, and jerry richardson, owner of the carolina panthers. >> what you won't see is the kind of leadership that was involved, from the owner's perspective, by jerry richardson, as our chairman. everybody was certainly unified, and we all had one goal in mind. and that was rather than before it goes over the cliff, like we wish we had done in this country 10 years ago, make the changes now in the business model that will grow the pie because it's too great a game, it's too great for our fans, and it's a wonderful opportunity for everybody involved. and this deal accomplished that. >> we have what i would say, charlie, was a classic collaborative effort, unlike, maybe, any i've ever known in

business. we had 22 owners that entrusted their teams to a committee of 10 to represent them, and throughout the entire process-- it started in may of 2008-- we were prepared financially, legally and as coach said, we were united and we were resolu resolute, and some of us on the committee have gotten really more credit than we deserve. >> rose: moshe safdie, jerry jones, and jerry richardson, when we continue. every story needs a hero we can all root for. who beats the odds and comes out on top. but this isn't just a hollywood storyline.

it's happening every day, all across america. every timea storefront op. or the midnight oil is burned. or when someonchas a dream, not just a llar. they are small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: moshe safdie is here. he an architect, he is a

theorist, he isab urban planner. he has over 75 buildings and master plans to his name. in 1967 he was made famouses by i had residential complex habitat. it redefined urban living and put him on the cover of "newsweek" magazine. 44 years later, there's no sign of him slowing down. he has four major buildings opening this fall alone. i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: we have much to talk about. i begin with this-- you said to me there are great debates going on in architecture right now that have not received enough attention and focus. >> right. >> rose: what are they? >> i think the debate is between architecture as an expressive art, sculptural, attention-getting; and architecture dealing with the urban issues of the day-- density, congestion, megascale. how do we create a humane

environment in this ever-growing, ever-dense environment. >> rose: so the debate is between the idea of architectu architecture-- >> and its priorities. >> rose: and its priorities. >> there's a debate that says we have to create a sustainable architecture-- energy resourcees, et cetera. so there's all these streams and all these interests and the public is 81 fused, but the architectural criticism doesn't quite focus on what the questions are. for example, to me, the biggest issue of the day is megascale. as we get denser-- particularly, we're insulated here in north america. you go to asia, and these enormous cities, one on top of the other, millions of people-- how to make this humane. this is the biggest agenda of the profession at the moment is to humanize megascale, to deal with these issues of life, nature. >> rose: how do you humanize scale, especially with populations that exist-- >> you deal with daylight, with sunlight. you create open spaces and

gardens in different levels in a building. you break down the scale so it's more identifiable. you make buildings that you can find your way around-- whether it's a big airport or whether it's a megahospital or residential mixed use which is all over china and india and so on. these are the issues of the moment, and how to do it with limited resources -- with less energy, with materials that are replenishable. and i'm not saying all of this should not uplift the spirit and be sculptural and exciting. but it's how you get there and what the priority is. >> rose: so the other issue has always been star architects, the name that you people want to buy brand, want to buy the people that they think will get their building talked about. is that still at play? and is it especially at play in asia? >> it's certainly at play. it's at play in the sense that

it's recognized by governments, by developers that there's a value to having star architects design for you. >> rose: you're one of them. >> i'm one of them. and, yet, the same question is what is it are you trying to attain? and we all have different agendas what we're trying to attain as we get the opportunity because we're star architects. because you go in there and you know that you've got the opportunity to do things that is not day to day, that is kind of breaking new ground. in singapore we had a 10 million square foot project-- mixed use, hoteles, convention centers, museum-- marina bay sands. longest swimming pool on the 59th floor. >> rose: when i was there i asked where should i go and he said go over there. >> now is it an icon for singapore? it's already become the eiffel tower of singapore. but to me the agenda was to show that you can create an urban meeting place, a gathering place for the city, that pulls

everybody, tourists and the residents of singapore, that is about culture, about commerce, about nature, any views, about light-- how to create a new meaningful place for the 21st century that's urban, that's not a commercial mall, and is not a 19th century flashback. and so i treated it as a laboratory for new kend of urban place. >> rose: and they went with you. >> they went with me all the way. the government of singapore, and my client, the government of singapore set the guidelines. they wanted a place that connects to the rest of the city, that draws the population in, that celebrate the waterfront that they've created. all of these things that were solledly behind us. >> rose: in fact what, use to be a great sort of i think ship center, he's moved to the other to open this up for development. >> correct. >> rose: for smart development. >> all landfill, and one of the

brilliant things that they did is, when they set up the land for sale, the developers said we are fixing the price of the land. and we will pick the project that contributes the most to singapore by design, by program, by management -- >> we're going to play a role here. >> they played the role by fixing the price of the land. they were in the driver's seat from day one. and if we were doing this here, we'd say the highest bidder has to get it and quality gets second place. so they placed their objectives and quality as the prime reason for selection. >> rose: what informs your architecture most? >> i think an obswegz understanding, an obsession with understanding the place, a culture, and creating a building that belongs to that place. i mean, i am obsessed with kind of making buildings that belong, that grow out of that place, whether it's the museum of the sikhs that we're opening in punjab, or a museum in arkansas, or a museum in, say, salem-- how

to feel the place and form the architecture through an understanding of the site and the culture and so on. i think part of the issue of megascale and liveability and gardens, and so on, that began with habitat, for me understanding place and creating a unique design to that particular place. >> rose: tell me about the crystal bridges because you mentioned arkansas. this is remarkable. here's a woman, the patron, who wants to build a museum of american art. >> right. >> rose: she has all the money in the world. she was the daughter of the founder of wal-mart, right? >> yes. >> rose: with a great interest in & has the power to get art to, acquire art, and wants a building that is up to the standards of the art that she is acquiring, correct? >> correct. >> rose: so what happens? how does that work? and how do you end up with this

project, called crystal bridges? >> with crystal bridges, alice walton did not begin -- >> sam walton's daughter. >> yes. she did not begin with competitions or interviews. she began by traveling from museum to museum and studying the architecture -- >> around the world. >> around the world, in the united states, around the world. at some point, she said, "i want to make a museum which is a place of community as much as it is a museum. she was at the huntington library. and i said to her, "you should go see skirbil museum." she went there in cog neato. thereafter, i got a phone call, "will you come and spend the day with alice walton in bentonville in? and we -- >> did you say, "where's bentonville?" >> ah, well, i went to visit the wal-mart store because i'd never been to one. >> rose: that's the thing to do. >> and, you know, i arrived. we had dinner. the next day we went walking

around the site. and i said to her as i was about to leave for the airport, "i guess you're beginning your architecture selection process." and she said, "no, i ended it today." >> rose: she decided on you. >> she decided on me. the first meeting, she visited several of my buildings and decided. >> rose: so she had an nsync that she wanted to choose you and she just wanted to make sure gl. >> she'd seen the work. she was impress with the work. she saw qualities in it that she thought were looking-- that she was looking for there, and at the meeting face to face at the end of the day, that was it. >> rose: you as an architect, as a good architect, you want your client, your patron, to tell you what they want or simply to say this is-- tell me what you would do. >> luee sullivan, great american architect, mentor of frank lloyd

wright, said no great architecture occurs without a great client. >> rose: and what's a great client? what are the elementes of a great client? >> a great client is one who trusts their intuition and instirngs, who know what they want and are open to have a dialogue with you. >> rose: and in fact they want to be surprised. >> they want to be surprised, they're curious-- frawm they should look at your work before they hire you and feel good about what you've done in other circumstances. thereafter, it's an exploration. it's a joint exploration. i do best with strong clients who have a strong sense of what they're after and are prepared to have this discussion and we both come out different at the end. i've had it working with nancy testman, the chief librarian, where the national gallery of canada, and i have it with alice walton. we traveled the world. we looked at different museums. >> rose: this was after you had-- >> after i was selected. we went to louisiana, outside copenhagen, and we talked about

experiencing art and nature together. you're this nature and you're experiencing art. we realize that's what arkansas was all about. it's a site in nature. how do we make nature and art merge as an experience. and that's what the project evolved to become. >> rose: tell me what you would like for us to see as we look at the images. >> this was a creek, stream, outside the city, covered all around in mature trees. i decided to build in the bottom at the valley, in the creek, dammed the creek to create two large ponds fed by crystal springs, which is there. and around those ponds a series of pavilions built with local woods-- arkansas pine-- built with concrete walls surrounding the ponds we created, and everywhere you're into galleryes, out, into nature, looking at the trees, surrounded by them. it's like a little oasis.

>> rose: another project you're doingue have four projects coming to fruition within the year. >> next three months. >> rose: the kauffman center. >> performing arts center -- >> kansas city. >> kansas city. performing arts center with a concert hall and a theater for opera, ballet, and theater. so two halls, specialized halls, which means they valley top-quality facilities. i've already heard as we say in the lingo, i've heard the hall because i they started racking g and it's anything to be the finest acoustics ever, like the top acoustic glz did you go find who is the genius about acoustics and hire him or her or do it some other way? >> yes. i picked who i thought was the best in the business at this moment, which is-- he did disney, and i had lots of conversations .

>> rose: what is it he has? >> what he has is a new paradigm. the old tradition was you have to do a shoe box. that's the only way to get the sound into the room, this kind of a room. and all of us want to do a place like that where the people surround the orchestra, and he cracked the acoustic problem. he found a way to do it without a shoe box. that's the secret. >> rose: and how did he cothat? >> he did this by creating-- helping us to create many, many platform levels of seating, each of which little walls that sustain them, are bouncing the sound back and forth so that instead of just two parallel walls, it's a much more complex arrangement of walls. >> rose: the other thing you're doing is u.s.i.p., united states institute of peace, in washington. >> this was for me a very moving project because it started about 10 years ago, and when they

first called me i said, "the united states institute of peace, what is that?" i give a lecture and ask, "who knows about it?" two hands up. it is a body created by congress to pursue peace and conflict resolution. and they were able to get the most prominent site in washington, right on the mall, facing the lincoln memorial. so to me it was, by definition, a building that's going to be the symbol of peace on the national mall. that's a tall order. >> rose: i want to tell you a quick story. the late, great ed bradley, the correspondent for "60 minutes," would tell the story that when he died-- he died several years ago-- when he died, he would go, hopefully, to heaven and god would say, "mr. bradley, why do you deserve hobby here?" and ed would say to him, he said, "have you seen my lena horne interview?" so when this moment comes for you, what building are you going to ask god to look at?

>> you know, it's like having a bunch of kids -- >> don't tell me that. >> who is your favorite? because of what it means and the significance of creating a place that tells the story of the holocaust, which is such a central piece of the history of our time. and trying to find an architecture framework that could be the place of that story. >> rose: when did you build it? >> i did the children's memorial 25 years ago. but the museum itself, we opened five years ago, complete rebuilding of the old museum, new exhibits, complete rebuilding five years ago, opened five years ago. the uniqueness of verb verb is that it is in juruse lem. when you go through the narrative, the question is what happens at the end. after the hall of names, a place where all the three million files, i take you out.

i go through the mount and i know i emerge out of a mountain, and at that point a building which is a prism dug right into the mountain, so the whole museum is under ground, it breaks out, opens up and you you see the jerusalem forest and see the mountains and that's a statement i could make as an architect you could not make anywhere else. here we are, we prevailed. life prevailed, and a kind of optimistic reflection that still life prevailed and we any on. that's why yad vashem is so unique because of its place. >> the dean of the yale architectural school of design-- you taught in harvard. you now live in cambridge. did that experience contribute to you as an architect because you had to finally give it up because you had too much business. >> well, it was a great experience. i went there in '78. it caused me to leave canada.

i was this canada. so i moved to cambridge, set up my office there, and for 11 years, i taught. i headed the urban design program. and it was wonderful. because, you know, it was the center of things -- >> and you can initiate all the debates that you think ought to be part of where we are. >> debates and conferences. i got into trouble writing various critical papers. but at some point, i felt as the practice expand and i had started traveling far east and so on and be away every month they can't do both, and i made a choice. >> rose: do you have an operative philosophy about architecture? >> well, i begin by saying the ethic of architecture. what is the ethic? the ethic, i think, first of all, is you are designing buildings for a purpose, to fulfill the life intended in a building. if you're doing a school, it's got to be a wonderful place for learning. nothing else matters.

so there is the purpose of a building and how you understand the life within it and respond to it. it's material. we need to use resources, real materials, and it's an expressive art in that sense. it's all about construction. that's another aspect of it. but for me, also, place is part of that et ceteraic, because i don't believe that conceiving something in the abstract and landing it into a place is as rich an architecture as understanding a place and growing the design out of the qualities of the place. and finally, you know, i think that we have a role as responsibility, that at this time of urbanization, of kind of scale that has never occurred in the past-- architecture today is not what it was even 30 years ago. i was in china in '73. there wasn't a single high-rise building in any of the major city glz what year? >> 1973, the cultural

revolution. i went there with trudeau when he opened -- >> former prime minister trudeau of canada. >> i went back 45 years after, and every mistake that we had made in the west had been repeated. so this is a new world of density and of size and of scale, of everything that we do -- do-- we have a responsibility -- >> do the chinese, in your judgment, have an awareness of learning from the mistakes of others? >> i think they're kning to in a big way. they are interested now in issues of sustainability. they are beginning to be interested in the regulatory mechanisms of controlling the quality of housing and they've been consulting the singaporeans a lot. but it's still so fast growing and so wild that it's a long way before it becomes harnessed. >> rose: frank gerry is a great friend of yours. >> yes. >> rose: he says his architecture is most influenced by art.

>> my architecture is probably influenced by the architecture that's been designed without architects. i learn a great deal from visiting villages and towns and seeing an architecture that evolved over centuries and adapts itself to the land ask adapts itself to the material. it doesn't mean they imitate those building forms, but i learn from the process. i learn the most from studying design in nature. >> rose: design in nature. >> you know, i'm a sucker for morphology and, you know, i read "scientific american" from beginning to end, and i'm fascinated by-- by the whole question of evolution and how design responds in nature and how we might learn from that in architecture. >> rose: did i read somewhere that sort of the earliest hero you had was corbashe? >> i was a minor critic. i worked for kawn --

>> i actually was thinking about kawn. >> i apprenticed for kawn and learned a great deal from him? >> you thought what he did was too sterile and stood too independent of everything else? >> i thought in the 20s and 30s he was talking about gardens and high buildings and he was talking about building with nature. but in the 50s and 60s, he billion these cities that were theoretical and otherwise pretty inhuman place glz inhuman. >> inhuman. >> rose: because they had-- >> no great architecture. they were all abt repetition, the towers in the park concept. they were about, you know, the unity that we-- the famous apartment building-- really quite exact, without relief, pretty overwhelming building. i don't think it deals with the question of megascale. i think my project, habitat, was a design that grew out of critique fo.

my slogan was, "for everyone a garden." >> rose: for everyone a garden. >> >> high-rise building, everyone a garden. every person in the habitat has a garden. we build a building that's like a hill and set back and forth. but for everyone a garden is a motto, and that was sort of a reaction. >> rose: you still have an apartment there? >> yes. >> rose: when you look at the architectural landscape today, is it asia where most of the best new things are being done because there's more opportunity to build there? >> i think that asia is where there are the most opportunities. whether we are all doing our best work there, i'm not so sure. the opportunities are there. the scale, the ambition, the resources, and the trust in the sort of outside star architect who comes -- >> right, right, right. >> the museum and opera house and whatever.

i still think it's going to take some time before we, the outsiders, do our best work there. i feel the same way about the middle east. there are some great opportunities in the gulf states, obviously. >> rose: were you born in haifa. >> yes. >> and your parents moved to canada? >> yes. >> rose: what happened? >> this was for me a tragic story. in '53, my father, who was an avid free enterprise, got fed up with the bolsheviks as he used to call them, and he was a merchant, and he didn't like the socialist fervor -- >> this was in the 50s? >> just after the state was formed. >> rose: early 50. so he didn't like ben guerin and all the founders. >> they did not. they moved to canada and i had to follow. i was 15. i had no choice. >> rose: we were talking before we started this conversation about israel. how do you see israel in the midst of the arab spring and the most recent demonstration of a large number of people in the streets all over the country?

>> the exciting news for the week, for this week, is that the arab spring has been contagious. 150,000 israelis are marching, as we speak, all over tel aviv, jerusalem, haifa. thousands of tents this all -- >> asking for what? >> they're asking for social justice, social contract. they're asking for good schools, decent medicine, return to the welfare state, the-- against the polarization of income where 15 families own most of the country. and so on. so they are challenging, and they're saying things that have political implications -- we don't want all the money to be spent for 4% of the population. the settlements. we don't want money to go to the religious sector, to all these people who don't work because that's at our expense. we're carrying the burden. so the political impact, global political impact, long term, of

this israeli spring, which is contagious, coming from the arab spring, is formidable. >> rose: at the same time, you have the palestinian vote coming up, perhaps, in september for statehood. >> you know what my dream is? half a million israelis march towards the border, half a million palestinians simultaneously march towards the border, and shake hands and exchange olive branches. >> rose: what are you doing to make that happen? >> start work on it. >> rose: start talking about it is the first thing. start talking about it? >> yes. >> rose: you mentioned masad. had a great piece you said. what does he represent. >> he reptz a liberal, sane israel, liberal in the broader sense, sane in the sense of understanding the opportunity and the mission of the country

and reminding us there was an extraordinary story going here and is being derailed. and we must go back to the first principles. and these demonstration are saying and doing the same thing. they're saying, "we were a model welfare state. we were for a-- a country that didn't have great contrast between the rich and the poor. we had wonderful education" -- >> they were a place of diversity. >> yes, and respect for the other. so i think in that sense he's the voice of the liberal zionist israeli of secular, of the old school. but with contemporary meaning. i mean, it's not just -- >> he is the most prominent person? >> he is right now the moral voice of the country, i believe. >> rose: great to see you. >> good to see you. >> rose: the nfl season was saved in july ending a

four-month lockout. owners and players apruferred a 10-year collective bargaining agreement-- c.b.a.-- centering on issues such as revenue sharing and player salaries. joining me are two people influential in shaping the deal. jerry richardson owns the carolina panthers. he is cochair of the nfl's exclusive committee. jerry jones owns the dallas cowboys. he is a member of the executive committee. i am pleased to have both of them at this table. most people will tell you without these two people there would have been no agreement, including the players. welcome. great to have you here. >> it is a pleasure to be here. it's a former north carolinian, i want to tell you how proud we are you of you. >> rose: thank you, sir. >> and we appreciate the wonderful work you've done. and you live very close to the hardees hamburger chain. >> rose: indeed i do. there is one in my home town right now in henderson. >> good. >> rose: you call him "coach," and always have. why do do you that? >> well, he-- he wants to be a

coach. that's what-- that's the main reason i call him coach. >> rose: he is. >> he probably thinks he is, but i let him speak to that. but i have nicknames for a number of owners. i call dan rooney crash. i call him crash because he crashed his airplane one time. but crash and coach are just automatic for me. >> well, i will respond to that by saying certainly one of the things that inspired me to be in the nfl was football, period. it wouldn't have been baseball for me. it wouldn't have been another sport. but i really thought when i knot out of school that coaches weren't going to get there the way i needed to get there financially. so greed in that sense got me here. >> rose: so you've made a lot of money. >> well, the bottom line is if i had known i would be paying coaches what i'm paying them today i would have gone into coaching. >> rose: but you still have real influence, it seems, more

than any other owner. i know you're the general manager. >> well, i am, and i couldn't do it any other way. >> rose: because that's your nature. >> well, i just wanted to be involved directly with everything that hassed to with the ball. and-- not the coach. it's too much-- too important to take away all the experience that you might have had during those years there. but when it comes to the groceries that we're cooking, then since i'm going to eat them along with the fans, i want to buy the grocery glz okay, but is it a risk of interfering too much with coaching, which is a very demanding, highly skilled responsibility. >> well, charlie, i think this-- i've always been amazed at the criticism that i get for being as directly involved. you go to stores, you go to restaurants, you go to manufacturing, and if you've knot the owner and he's there,

and he's picking the trash up, or he's looking at the detail of the widget, then the customers, the fans all say, "he's on top of it, and he's that interested." but in sports you'll get criticized for doing that. the idea suundermine the coach. i don't believe that's the case. >> rose: is he right about that? >> i think in this case he is right about it. i think it's right in his case. there owners with 32 different personalities. one of the things coach and i have in comorng he and i both have a football background. i'm proud of the fact that i'm a former player in the nfl. i'm proud of that. >> rose: and he was a great player, was a player in arkansas. >> he was. and i think that, that is-- adds to the different dimension that he and i both bring to our teams. and without the nfl, i wouldn't have had the money to start the

business that eventually allowed us to buy -- >> gave you the money to buy a team. from hamburgers to ownership of the carolina panthers. >> yes. >> rose: sometimes people like to look at this and say professional sports, owning a professional sports franchise, is simply a rich man's toy. >> well, i'll respond to that. i was luckier than i should have been, and i ended up accumulating money, enough money to get involveed in the nfl. my fear was that i was going to be known as the dummy that did have a chance to change his family and change a lot of people's lives, but instead wanted to go coach and spend it all to get in the nfl. so i had gotten a little money, but i spent it all to get to be a part of the dallas cowboys. i actually bought the dallas cowboys, part of it from the government. it had been foreclosed on, i

bought from the f.d.i.c. they were lugz a million a month. it wasn't pret for the cowboy 1989 and 1990. >> rose: america's team. >> 18 gwen, you're supposed to use some judgment somewhere. i just wanted to be involved some way, somehow nnfl and certainly the cowboys. >> rose: you've got the top draft choice. can he change your franchise? >> he has the potential. he's an extraordinary young man. he has an athletic ability unlike anything i have seen in quite a few years. i was having a conversation with mike homgron, and he said you couldn't afford not to craft him, his potential is so high. and even if he doesn't reach that, he's going to be a very good quarterback. so i think-- i view cameron as a low risk and potential. >> rose: but you wanted to talk to him before you were prepared to sign him. >> yes, i did.

he was first draft -- >> brought him to your home. >> i did. >> rose: what did you need to know? >> well, i wanted to look him in the iso to speak. and when he came in, he wanted-- he started to talk about his past. and i said, ," cameron, i really don't care to talk about your past. i think we need to talk about the future." and i asked-- he was dressed perfectly. i said, "do you have any tattoos." and he said, "no, circ i don't have any." i said, "do you have any piercings?" he said, "no, sir, i don't have any." i said, "we want to keep it that way." and then he told me he thought about letting his hair grow out ask his father found out about it-- lived in georgia and drove to texas and took care of the hair he was thinking about growing. and i said, "we want to keep-- no tattoos, no piercings, and i think you've got a very nice haircut." >> rose: you sound like a lombardi. >> no, i just sound reasonable

to me. >> rose: so suppose a peyton manning or-- before cam came on the scene-- or peyton manning said, "i really want to play for the carolina panthers. my contract is coming up and i know you can afford me, but i'm thinking about getting a tattoo." >> well, that's a hypothetical question. >> jerry reminds me of bear bryant's line and when they asked him about long hair he said, "if i have to grow it to win i'll just grow it." >> rose: there's another great story, who was the famous coach for the-- for u.c.l.a.? john wend. john wooden. and somebody they had there for a long time-- >> bill walton. >> rose: bill walton had long hair. and wooden went to him ask he said, "bill, i want you to cut your hair." and he said, "coach, i don't want to cut my hair.

you can't make me cut my hair." and he said, "you're right. i can't. but i can tell you who will play on my team." >> i think the story was something like, "you'll sit on the bench with me." >> rose: even better. all right, tell me about the deal. what happened between the-- that ended this lockout and provided a 10-year contract between management and players, owners and players so that we are looking at 10 years of, hopefully, attention on nothing but the game. >> it's historic. the thing that you can do is read the terms of the deal. but what you won't see is the kind of leadership that was involved from the owners' perspective, by jerry richardson, as our chairman. everybody was certainly unified,

and we all had one goal in mind, and that was rather than before it goes over the cliff-- like we wish we had had done in this country 10 years ago-- make the changes now in the business model that will grow the pie because it's too great a game. it's too great for our fans. and it's a wonderful opportunity for everybody involved. and this deal accomplished that. and to everyone's credit, it was a tough negotiated deal, but it did mean that, as we look to the future with this great game, with the most visibility and the most transform any game in this country, it also is structured in a way that causes the teams to do their part in growing the pie. you know, charlie, when you stop growing the pie, then everybody starts arguing over what's out there. the way to govern, the way to

have a unified league going forward was to continue the pie growing. and this deal did that. >> rose: let me just ask one thing because you made a reference to it-- what the country should have done 10 years ago. what did you mean by that? >> i mean, you fix these things before you run out of gas. and we were often asked in the negotiations, "show us where you're out of gas." and we said, "we're not out of gas. we just don't want to get out of gas, and the direction that we're heading is doing that." and it took a lot of talking. it took a lot of effort. but to the players' credit and to their leadership's credit, everybody saw that if we would do certain things economically, it would mean the players get more money in the long run, which will be great for our fa fans. >> rose: tell me what the essence of good negotiations are in a situation like this. >> well, when-- as a union negotiation, we had, what i

would say, charlie, was a classic collaborative effort, unlike maybe any identify ever known in business. we had 22 owners that entrusted their teams to a committee of 10 to represent them, and throughout the entire process-- it started in may of 2008-- we were prepared financially, legally, and as coach said, we were united and we were resolu resolute. and some of us on the committee have gotten really more credit than we deserve, and i haven't really heard much conversation about those 22 owners that had confidence to turn over us representing them. and then when we had the vote, since i've been in the league, if it's involved money that affects teams, rarely do we get 31 votes. we had one abstain.

and i think it was because we were prepared. the owners were informed. they thought it made sense. the 10 years that coach referred to is critical to us for many, many reasons. it gives stability. i was visiting don keough in atlanta yesterday-- he's one of my partners-- and i was in the building he was in, and i guess the check-in person realized i was probably with the nfl. and i had two random fans come to me and tell me, "thank you very much. we have 10 years of labor peace that as a fan we don't have to worry about it and we can concentrate on football." >> rose: so what was the hardest thing to get over? >> well, i thk, first of all, with all of the momentum that the nfl has, all of the visibility and interest, how in the world could the owners say

we're going to lock out with things going, apparently other as well? >> rose: the number i've seen, you made $9.3 billion last year? >> well, what is important is that you have a plan in place that takes a big part of that and re-invest it back into the game-- new stadiums, specifically. and what this agreement does is it encourages and incent vises teams to not only invest in new stadiums -- i just built a new stadium for $1.2 billion. not everybody is as nuts as i am because i built it under the old pro forma. my point is the agreement really does encourage the growth that will benefit everybody, particularly the fans. >> rose: and how about the players? >> well, the players, of course, in my mind, by having a bigger pie, will see that the role that

clubs play, see that they have the incentive, they're make the investment, they're building the stadiums, they're putting together the sales teams that go out and generate revenue-- that means more money for the players, and that's a healthier model. >> rose: what's the breakdown in terms of revenue now interest this new agreement in terms of players and owners? >> uhm, we have a bracket between 47 and 48%. it's a very complicated formula. one of the things that we did differently this time, charlie, that we've never done before, we broke out the revenue into three different congratulations, to coach's point-- categories, recognizing there were greater expenses in some categories, and one of them is tv, which is our number one revenue stream. the players got 55% and the owners got prif%. 45%. so we view that as a win for the players. and we bracketed-- in answer to your question-- between 47% and

48%. >> rose: should this be the greatest time for professional football? >> i think absolutely. >> rose: because of the possibilities of, one, the rest of the world. the possibility of media to bring it around the world. the possibilities of makin makit excite ago in fact this guy built a stadium, it is said, because he worried people would rather stay home than come to the stadium. so he had to have a stadium that would make it such an attractive experience, they wouldn't want to stay home this their huge television. >> charlie, charlie, only 7% of nfl fans have ever been inside an nfl stadium. 93% are a part of this game, of all of our fans, through television. but that stadium i built was built for television. i could have built it for $800

million, not a billion-2. but i wanted to design a "wow" factor so that an al michaels could be sitting there and basically, through his talent, make the fans at home on television feel like that they were right there at the game, a part of what was going on at the game. our game cannot become a studio game. it's got to have the pageantry of the coliseum of rome. it's got to have the crowds. and that makes the game more exciting to watch on television. so we need that incentive and do have it now for clubs to go out and do those kinds of things which will make it great for our fans. >> rose: what are the changes you look forward to in the next 10 years? >> well, i think the work rules that was part of this labor agreement, that had changed dramatically in the favor of what the players requested, their concept is, they'll be fresher at the end of the season. their years will last longer,

and what i hope is going to happen, i hope they're right. i hope that the game at the end of the season is going to have more zip to it. the game is so fast, charlie, it is mind-boggling to me-- and i played in the league. these men are bigger, taller, stronger, faster, and we tweaked the game, and i don't want to be critical to one of our competitors, but i saw a play the other night on television in baseball where it was obvious the man was out at home plate, and it was -- >> everybody in the world saw that. >> and that-- i don't understand that gli don'. >> rose: i don't, either. >> that's something they can solve. >> rose: it was extra innings of a very long game. >> and i think the league is out front. we're out front on safety. this commissioner has been very emphatic about the hit rules,

and he's led that charge. he's led the charge on concussions. but i think back-- we had a player named dan morgan who was one of my favorite players we ever had on our team, and he had concussions and we sent him to pittsburgh way back when he was playing on our team to begin a profile of studying of concussion that went on years ago that we don't seem to get any credit for when they're critical of us about concution. >> rose: so you're saying the league is on top of the issue of concussions and it's going to lead the charge to make sure that there is a maximum amount of protection from it and not that it get out of hand. >> i'm confident of it. i have no doubt. >> jerry, i would say this-- and i would really put our grearnlgt our labor agreement, i would put the way we're addressing our

great audience, the interest that's in pro football. you look around the country at other business. it's really riding high right now. we should take what we've done with this labor agreement, what we're about there, and we should be examples. we should be examples to basically how tocracy injury for the future. how to address injury for the future. we should be examples how to approach business, right in the heart of the roughest times over the last four years, i spent a billion-2. now, again i may be dumber than a gord, but i spent it, and it created jobs. it created a stadium that will also create jobs. >> rose: ask you viewed it as an investment in the future. >> of course i did, but more important than anything, i viewed it as a responsibility. things were going good. we needed to show a very positive ethos as far as not only the nfl but this country's

concerned. >> rose: tell me what was the hardest thing to give nupt negotiation for you. where did you comrms that you walked into these negotiations saying i don't think i'll go there but you went there. >> well, i think i felt like in the draft that the players will be free to go do new contracts earlier than they were in the other agreement. those specific players are very important to the economics of the league right now. they are very important. they're starters. well, under this new agreement, they're going to be able to go out here and see where they are in the marketplace, and my player may go to jerry's. and he may be a panther. so i thought that was a tough-- and it really did. we labored on that one for several weeks. that became quite a point of contention. >> rose: what do you think? >> i would say the 18-game --

>> versus 16. >> versus 16. and, charlie, that was driven-- our fans clearly are telling us they're not excited about our four pre-season games. we felt the solution -- >> how do you know they're telling that you? >> we just look up in the stands to see. it's pretty easy. >> rose: yeah, exactly. >> it's pretty easy. and we felt like the easiest solution was 18 and two. we thought that. the players were adamant against that, and that was a pretty big give-up on our part. >> rose: you just hired a new coach. >> and i'm very excited. >> rose: ron rivera. >> fabulous. >> rose: had he been a head coach before? >> he had not, he had not. >> rose: this goes against the grain of what most people are doing, doesn't it? >> our first coach had never been a head coach. george seford had a head coach -- >> actually, i'm mistaken, i think should had-- >> in our case, i personally liked the idea of hiring a

young, proven assistant coach with a lot of energy and a lot of enthusiasm. and that's the reason we chose ron. >> charlie, jerry came to see me one time-- excuse me for interrupt ago and he was getting ready to hire george seford. and we had had success and won super bowls. and i had hired one of my teammatees, jimmie johnson -- >> as your hoch. coach. >> and i hired another coach right behind him jerry switzer. and i told jerry i'm honored. i appreciate you asking me. in terms of hiring coaches i've run out of teammates. now i have to find out how to do it. >> rose: barry was an assistant coach, wasn't he? what's the relationship between and you jimmie johnson today? >> very good, extremely good. good friends. i'm considering him-- considering possibly giving him our highest honor with the

cowboys. we-- i don't want to get ahead of ourselves but he's a good friend -- >> what's the highest honor of the cowboys. >> we have our hall of fame glu make that decision. >> but i do make that decision. but we have a great relationship. it's many, many years now. >> rose: back to where we were, can you imagine a circumstance in which you would decide that you want to be the head coach? >> i could not. i've seen-- i had that situation come up as late as last year where at midseason, i replaced wade phillips with jason garret. and i don't mind telling you, i had a lot of letters that said, "okay, big boy, you've been mouthing about this forever. it looks to me like they say good opportunity." the problem was it didn't quite fit my profile of when i wanted to become a head coach. we hadn't won bibutt one game out of the last eight. >> rose: i think a turnaround

is a place you want to be. >> we're proud of jason's effort last year, for sure. >> rose: what about internationally? does the nfl have a future internationally? >> well, i think so. and i particularly like the areas that are more conducive to our time zones, our timing. and certainly you can look at anything in north america and south america and get the same time zone out of it, and it's not too far over there to england, either. >> rose: so you would agree with that that there's an international opportunity here. >> oh, i think there is. yes, i do think there is. i think that we've been so successful in london, that i would think that that would be -- >> how many games are played in london? >> i guess-- >> a couple. >> rose: coach, how many? we've played half a dozen or so haven't he? >> correct. and recently we've played those games, the real games, not our

pre-season games but the games that count in the standings by having regular season games go over there and play. that's been done three times. >> rose: now, how would you like to see the super bowl in charlotte? >> it would be fabulous, without even hesitation. it would be great. >> rose: how would you like to see the super bowl in charlotte? >> well, i'd love to see it in charlotte, but the specifications to host the super bowl where extraordinary. and, really, we couldn't qualify for the hotels. >> rose: yet. >> yet. >> rose: you've got the democratic national convention coming there. >> we do, and we're very proud of that. we're very proud of that. and president obama i'm sure will be making his speech in our stadium. >> rose: oh, sure. as he did in denver. >> yes. >> rose: it's great to have you. thank you. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: much success to the nfl. >> a pleasure to be here. >> rose: thank you. great to see you. >> we're really proud of what you're doing.

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