>> welcome to our program, i'm al hunt of bloomberg news in washington filling in for charlieose who is on assignment. tonight a wrap-up of a busy week in politics. we talwith "new york times" reporters matt bai and jackie calmes and joshua green. >> what is shock to me, maybe it shouldn't be at this point, is just how little new these guys have to say. and i guess to some extent i felt this way in recent campaigns general leigh but it's all either old proposals or obvious proposals or what the base wants tohear or attacks on the president. at some point to want to be president in this moment, right, where the challenges are so profound you wod think, this is why herman cain is getting tractions. >> exactly. >> because the guy that brought the -- >> right. any of these guys who brings a seriously new idea to the table i would think would have a significant advantage, even if not everybody loves it just by being bold enough

to bring real leadership. >> the two words that sum it all up from the white house point of viewis choice and priorities. that the election will be a choice. it's not a referendum on barak obama and they tnk he will stand up for whatever choice republicans will put forward and the other is priorities. everything they do including this jobs bill probably most prominently is a way of illustrating his priorities versus republicans priorities, being for the middle class. being for creating jobs, and you know, police and firefighters, teachers in the classroom versus republicans who don't seem to be through these things. >> going through this process of hoping and lie are for somebody else. we will probably not a another candidate, kappin is that guy in the race. he seems like the new shiny guy to get excited at. eventually they will have to make peace that mitt romney is likely to be be their nominee. i'm more bullish on romney's presidential chances. thened question is dow want

mitt romney republican or barack obama and four more years in the white house. the one thing that most conservatives agree on is they don't want barack obama around for four more years and if need they they will hold their nose and votfor mitt romney. >> we conclude with charlie's interview daryl hall. he discues his tv show and his new solo album "laughing down crying" >> rose: daryl's house is who you are. >> it couldn't be more who i am. it is literally in my kitchen, in my house, with my friends and i tried to create that mood, you know. and that's another thing. i think maybe the first show ever, really, people tell me it is anyway where an audience that's watching this thing feels like they're not-- they feel like they are in with you. listening to people, musicians interact. >> politics and charlie's interview with daryl hall whene continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following

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from our studios inew york city, this is charlie rose. >> i'm al hunt of bloomberg news, in washington filling in for charlie rose. now you'd think charlie wod be taking a break after moderating the gop presidenl debate in new hampshire this week. no, he's on another assignment. but we'll try to fill in for him now. and we are going to lk about politics. it was a tough week for president obama. despite his efforts to sell the jobs bill to congress, the package failed to advance in the senate. it was a better week for massachusetts governor mitt romney. he continued to gain traction against his rivals, after another poor debate performance by texas governor rick perry. romney also was endorsed by new jersey governor chris christie. it was also not so bad for herman cain. the former pizza executive is rising in national polls and running first in some. and his 9, 9, 9 plan has

been all the talk in recent days. with his new status, however, there also have been more questions about s position. joining me now to talk about all of this an probably more, matt bai of "the new york times" magazine and jackie calmes of "the new york times" and joshua green of bloomberg business week pag. i am pleased to have them all with us. thank you. both matt and josh have written magazine articles. jackie, you and i are kind of the outliers here and i don't have a copy of the "new york times" but i do have a copy of the "business week" piece that josh did on rick perry called rick perry needs a miracle. josh, it was a fascinating piece. also's start with you. why hathis campaign faltered so much? >> well, it doesn't look like perry's really ready to be a presidential candidate, at least not yet. and he was, the immediate front-runner, popular guy in all the polls jumped in late in august and seemed to be the one guy who kind of marrd the tea party enthusiasm with an actual

record of job creation in texas which seems like the best credential a presidential candidate could have. but pretty much from the get-go he failed to impress in debate after debate after debate. he got caught up in miniscandals over immigration, he hasn't been able to talk about jobs. >> but joband the economy were his issue. that was the subject matter. the sole focus last tuesday. charlie roast, july yana, gave him an opportunity and he passed. >> and amazingly he seemed incapable of talking about it. so the original idea fo his candidacy was if you talked a lot of his supporters they say the thing that qualifies him to be president is look the texas. look at the record of bs theye created. the supporters refer to it as the texas miracle. that's what i wrote about this wee but perry for some reason hadn't been able to articulate that and make a case for what it was he has done down there. and in the debate the other night, you know, he was sort of lookingforward to this energy plan he was about to roll out.

didn't really have any specifics. didn't seem to know what he wanted to talk about. he really looked kind of helpless. >> he did. josh, t you also, in that really well reported piece note the texas miracle ain't all it's cracked up to be. >> that might be one of the problems. the idea of the miracle is that if you look during the reinvestigation texas was about half the jobs in the country were created. now from a distance that looks and sounds pretty good. but if you take a closer look, a lot of that is the result of the federal stimulus, the growing population there. a lot of people are moving to texas and when they do that means the state hires more teachers, more policeman. >> government jobs. >> two-thirds of the jobs that have been created since of beginning of 2007 ha been government jobs. and have been partly enable by the stimulus and by the fact that texas had a pretty robust budget that really didn't get cut the way other states budgets did. so they have been able to maintain a level of employment and job creation that you don't see in a lot of other states. although, that's just begun to change in the lascouple

of months. >> and on issues like water and education, they are postponing days of reckoning. >> perry's-- miracle, taking a very narrow time horizon. over the last couple of years relative to the rest of the country texas looks pretty good. but if you look at it from the standpoint of business and you project forward even a couple of years, two, three years into theuture, doesn't look like such a great state for business. the roads are falling part. they don't have water. they are going through historic drought. they don't have power capacity. they have rolling brownouts and perry's most visible response to all this in the lastear or so has beenhe issue an official proclamaon calling for a day of prayer so that texas would get more rain. didnork. >> you feed a prayer too for that next debate. matt bai, i don't have a copy of "the new york times" magazine, or i would hold it up. >> i don't have one either. i would also hold it up. >> but you did a fascinating piece on the tea party, the republicans. and sort of that dcuss am between whatevermight be

called the remnants of the republican establishment and the populist movement conservative. talk just a little bit about that. >> yeah, and thank you, al. there is this storied republican establishment, more so an in demoatic politics. >> the white shoe republican. >> it was the white shoe lawyers and bankers and evolved over time to include other constituencies, social conservatives and evan gel calls. but there is this notion that republicans in washington in particular, there is a permanent establishment that steps in and is able to engineer presidential campaigns and sort of keep the party on message. in the last two years or so that establishment and i think there is somversion of it that exists has been under extme dur es from the tea party movement, this grassroots movement. and for them this presidential campaign isn't about getting this candidate and beat barack obama. it is about e cert-- exerting some control. it is also in just controlling its future and its image in the public mind. >>ell, on policy and

issues what is the schm all about, what is the difference between what is left of the establishment and the populist tea party. >> you know, you find what a lot of it comes down to, i went and interviewed dozens of -- >> you sure did. >> long time republicans who you would know, people who have been in town a long time. a lot of it comes down to this compromise and absolutism. a lot of the folks you talk to are actually quite happy that the tea party has emerged. that it's brought all this energy into spending. these are guys who didn't love the bush years, who stood by and watched quiet leigh an held their tongues while spending rose, while we got into wars they didn't really think were necessary or particularly in iraq at least. and so they agree with the basic goal of cutting spending. but they would prefer to do it in a long-term structurally through entitlement spending. they would be willing to give up something on the tax end to get that done. what troubles them is the same people without have created this energy around the issue are the people saying they will to the gi an inch on taxes. they either want it their way or no compromise. that is what you hear the

establishment people most up set about. >> when it comeso the presential race, much of the establishment is with governor romney, now given the choices. much of the tea party types, though this isot -- -- he is not their cup of tea, to use a terrible pun. >> no, that's right. and i think you have seen-- the establishment is not crazy about romney either. they don't really know him. >> other than+ romney there may n-- but go ahead. >> they didn't really know him in washington. heidn't work here. they didn't love the campaign he ran four years ago. so in a sense just the last i would say six or eight weeks there's been sort of a movement of establishment,articularly since chris-year got out, of money and support. people saying all right, you know, it's time toally around. but of course none of that translates into what you would call the tea party or the more activist base of party which really doesn't care for him. and i think it raises the question, at least, which a lot of republicans are dismissive of and i think too dismissi of whether they have a problem if romney is nominated keeping the party union too-- unifieding and holding

off someone to fill that vacuum. >> one of your fascinating interviews was with the freedom works official, who sort of said there were three options. number one they would vote for him with no enthusiasm, number two, stay hem or number three that chance that maybe there would be if the a big but a third party candidate of some sort. >> yeah, no one thinks that's really likely but i don't think you can write it off within that is the marg. >> as $crats found out in 00, a couple of points would be huge. first of all a lot of activists watched during the 2010 elections while in alaska, in particular and in florida, candidates who had lost in primaries or were losing primaries went out and ran as independen or write-ins. so you can't really tell them tt it is tachery to run someone else. so that is one issue to deal with. and the her thing is we are living in this different political moment where you know, not eryone who runs for offices interested in winning office, or happying the party. there is celebrity, twitter followers and big cable tv contracts and book contracts to be had.

so i think you can't discount the possibility that somebody like a sarah palin, mitchell bachmann, i don't know who it is, but some olier who thinks there is a vacuum to be filled, i think they will fill it. >> jackie, let's go to barack obama. there is a creeping conventional wisdom that he can't get 50%. and that he needs a third party candidatto win. is that exaggerated at this stage? >> i would say it's exaggerated at this stage only because this stage is so far o still. i guess i'm a little bit more of an optimist. he g, to remind, he got 53% in 2008 that is his high watermark. when you think of itnot so much as a percentage, and look where the electoral votes are, i think it's a little bit better, not a lot but a little bit better for barack obama. >> but still in trouble. >> absolutely. >> the jobs bill failed this week. the message sms to change weekly. he's got a bus tour coming up. i mean -- >> and where's the bus, the bus tour to virginia and

north carona which are two states tt we would not even have thought of as gets for a democrat until he got them in 2008. he's really got to fight for them this time. and they make an argument that north carolina and virginia especially, might be easier for him to get than a state like ohio in the traditional industrial heartland for democrats. >> this gets to the jobs issue. his jobs bill failed. he seems to be a little bit off stride. what does he do now. he can't say pass that bill. that bill is to the going to pass, we know that. they're talking about splitting it up. can he win the jobs issue fight with 9.1% unemployment? >> he can't win his bill as it is packaged. >> right. >> but when you take the pieces as he's now saying they wildo, i mean the biggest part of it is the payroll tax cut, expanding it, or extending it for those, allf us worker who currently are getting it this year and then expanding it, making it pore generous and expanding payroll tax

relief to employers as well. if you look at the450 billion package, the payroll tax cut is more than half of it. in the end, it expires at thend december. it's hard to see that republicans will be complicity in stopping a tax cut when -- >> or a tax --what would be a tax increase if it doesn't get extended. >> but it doesn't cree a lot of jobs. >> no. >> it might prevent an erosion of jobs but you can't say this is a job creator. >> on the other hand, because it puts money into people's pockets, or at least in every paycheck, they're spending more. it has about, by the measure of moody's analytics, about half percent of gdp measurement and only the other hand, and you know, he might get some infrastructure money. though i find that harder to see coming out of this. >> i can't think of two political figures that are more different today than rick perry and barack obama. just in every which way. they share one thing in common. they both are considering, i

would think, a scorched earth policy against mitt romney. is that fair? >> absolutely. you know, this week i oked at videos that the dnc has put together, of what mitt romney said in the '90s when he was running for the senate against ted kennedy and then when he ran for governor succe flooechlt and then his more recent comments where he is on a number of issues just fundamental issues he's taken diatrically opposed positions. he's not only done that but he's taken it with enthusiasm, each side. and when you see those videos, even for someone like me who is used to the idea. i have known this about him for years that he's changed position, it's difficult stating. and rick perry is going to have tv commercials soon that are just going to play those ad nauseam. >> we are going to get back toerry. but also if you have 9% unemployment, your best case may be i'm not a day at the beach but the other guy is a real bum. >> oh, absolutely. >> let's talk about all these figures. all of you jump in. herman cain, we haven't mentioned yet, 9, 9, 9,

first in several national polls this week including the nbc "the wall street journal" poll. is he a flavor du jour, flash in the pan, josh. >> definitely a flavor du jour, the republican front-runner now which is startling to think about. if you look at him and his background, the fact he has no real background in politics. he was sort of this self-published motivational peak speaker, former pizza c.e.o., briefly the fed chairman in kansas city but sort of the classic guy who you wonder what is he doing in this race. >> black republican, which is actually how he first became popular among the tea party. he didn't start out with 9, 9, 9 a year ago. he was going to tea parties in iowa and south carolina and tennessee and basically sayi hey, you kn, everybody called you tea partiers racist. well, you're not racist because you're here and you love me, don't you. he got huge early popularity so one of the knocks is he has not been campaigning in the primary states. the weird thing is he did -- >> he is out there sling books. herman cain if nothing else we know he's a great saesman. >> is the cain populaty

now, is it a manifestation of cain or a manifestation of they don't like what's there? >> well, let's tip late that weeally don't he any ideahat the electorate is thinking. so i do think herman cain could poibly be the republican nomie or couldn't win iowa, i certainly think he could probably win iowa and i guess he could be the republican nomineement every four years things happen th nobody thinks possible. that said, i think it's where the protest vote, protest vote is essentially parking right now. there's a lot of dissatisfaction particularly on the right wing of the republican electorate. but i think throughout the consertive voters. and i think you know, you have seen that vote jump around to different people. i think perry proved to be something of a disappointment. as josh mentioned he has still got a little time to grow. they're not happy with romney. they didn't get a chris christie or someone else into the race. so i think right now that is an expression of conservative voters saying, we think none of you are very per vase-- p swrasive

agents of change. we are fed up with the stas owe question and think this guy is making sense. i would be surprised if it held up in the craw cusses but i have been surprised many times. >> i agree, he can be gaging but 9, 9, 9 to begin w he also said in that debate he would balance the federal budget the first year asresident. paul ryan after ten years has a 283 billion dollar deficit so some of the substaive stuff has to start to hit, dsn't it? >> oh, absolutely. and you know you have to wonder if he even thought he would get this far. th he would be, that people would look into the substance and raise questions. >> just because ri lowrie started off a debate in cleveland, ohio, and ended up in cleveland texas is to ason but you can't play down. i mean hs good. he's really good. you saw it. i have not spent time on it, josh has, at an earlier point. i watched him in these debates but hats off to imhad. he is good. >> he is an amazingly charismatic guy and he knows how to communicate and talk about things. the problem is when you start looking at what he is

he is communicating so effectively raises questions that could be problematic for him. >> and the fact that to his credit, the fact he has done so makes you all the more wonder why rick perry hasn't. when bloomberg and "washington post" hold a debate they know it's going to be about the economy. and he doesn't have a plan ready. it didn't have to be fully baked. >> or an answer. >> rig, and he became a caricature. he was worse than not having an answer. >> herman had an answer. the may be flaws but boy, it is there. >> what is fascinating is we have all covered campaigns. and the thing we all think about debates, the conventional wisdom i ink is generally true, it only really hurts yowhen you do something idiotic, look at your watch, flub an answer, al gore huffing and puffing, whatever it is. there is a sense that otherwise debates kind of pass through. this is actually, i think this is a real indictment of perry to this point. this is a cumatif impression. he didn't do one thing that was crazy stupid. essentially people have watched him over a perd of debates in a cum latif way and said he does not appear to be ready. i think like i i say he can

grow as a candidate but that is almost a bigger problem. any comeback, josh. >> i think he absolutely can. because there really isn't, that i see, another viable opponent whoas both a record, who has the money, to kind-of-go the long haul with romney. and if you think as i tend to suspect that cain might sunset after he gets some media securitiny, we have had a bachmann boom let, we have had various people kind of come and go. there isn't another obvious candidate that i see that will kind of rise up to challenge romney. and if you look at, we all agree romney is the front-runner. i would probably call him the likely nominee but he still hasn't managed to kind of coalesce broad support from republicans. they move from perry to herman cain. they are not comingo mitt romney. that suggests there is a lot of dissatisfaction with romney and that perry really might have a chance to get a secretary look and maybe perform better. >> if he can clear a threshold that protest vote should be his when people get around to actually voting. >> namely when the iowa

caucus is. that clears a threshold. jackie, one more final point on herman cain. we did fd out this week that 9, 9, 9, he said he throws out t entire tax code. he doesn't throw out excise taxes or fees so when he imposes that 9% tax on top of those which i think will cause him some problems. >> right, absolutely. its regressive. he takes, it amounts to a massive tax cut for those at the top and a big tax increase f those at the bottom. who you know, don't save thr money, spend most of it and you know, tt means they're going to pay a lot of higher taxes. >> let's talk about mitt romney. i agree with josh, he's certainly the front-runner and the likely nominee. he has some strengths too. the white house talked about the flip-flops, that's true. but he is a lot better candidate than he was four years ago. >> yeah. he is so poised. and he has, you know, whether he is on camera, or not, whether he is speaking or not, he just looks very comfortable there in his

skin which is sething you didn't think of him in the past. he's been quick with comebacksn the last year debates. when there was a lot of piling on on him because he is the front-runner. he didn't get defensive at all. he turned it into a counterattack, in a very defendant way. so he's-- you knowihink has really helped make people more confident about supporting him. but at's, that's relatively speaking. it's just fairly astounding that at this point his support is sort of so weak. >> well, and the bloomberg "washington post" debate we sisted they have that block and question each other. anthe romney peopleated that. they thought it, they thought it wld be terrible. they thought everyone would gang up on him andhey did and he handled it well. no one touched him during that. that is the good news for him. very few people would question his confidence as president. however, he stays at 25%. no matter what happens. i mean that, there is a bit

of discouragement there. >> i agree he h done better. i also think he has had a pretty elegant message speaking directly to independent voters which is what he was doing in that debate and effectively saying look, you know, this president didn't get news this mess but he has no idea to get us out and i do. so what is the problem. remember the ad in 2004 which i think was the best ad in the cycle, republicans, the bush team made of the back and forth, the para gliingd of john kerry para sailing, whatever it was. back and forth. and, can you believe it, with all this, that i obviously get, you know, it was this beautiful visual image of what everyone suspected and feared about john kerry, right, which is that he kind of went back and forth whether it was fair or not that he was a vacillater. this is very similar to the attack will you get on romney as jackie was eluding to. what is going to happen during a geral election and as the primary goes on is basically he has to be careful not to reinforce

at people already fear about him. and that's a very hard thing to do particularly when you have already switched a whole bunch of positions. republan voters basically have to decide that he is the y that can win and the most compent guy for thi economic moment. and they are going to put the rest of it aside. because don't think he can actually change that impression. >> josh, howo you tally up his -- >> i tnk eventually conservatives through this proce of hoping and longing for somebody else. we're probably not going to get another candidate in the race. cain is that guy, he seems like the new shiny object to get excited about. but perry may get another chance, somebody else may get another chance. eventually they ha to come around and make peace with the fact that mitt romney will be the nominee. i'm pore bullish on romney's presidential prospects. because then the question becomes do you want mitt romney, republican leading you or dow want barack obama and four more years in the white house. and the one thing most conservatives seem to agree on is they don't want barack obama around for four more years and if need be they will hold their nose and vote for mitt romney. >> he is for no revenue

increases at allment he is for, he is kind of elusive on social security and medicare and he wants a constitutional balance budget amendment. >> right. he's saying what the base wants him to say on those issues. and it runs ar cnter his record as massachusetts governor where in he did raise fees and tacks to help balance the budget. >> there were tax loopholes by and large, corporate tax loopholes. >> that's what you could argue you were doing. and that's what people in congre and the obama white house argued they want to do now is close loopholes, broaden the base of those who pay taxes, and bring in more revenues. republicans would say 's through economic growth but be that as it may. it's just hard to see that anyone who is going to be elected in 2012 is not, is not goi to have to confront the idea of raising revenue somehow in their term. it's st as president obama said. >> not necessarily in their campaign. >> no, no.

>> let me ask you all. >> he doesn't need that. >> let me tell you something that really confuses me. that is probab because of an adeled brain. >> we will help you out. >> i appreciate it. there is nothing more unpopular in the, among republican rank and file establishment based than obama care. it is demonstrable true, two things, romney care was a model of sorts for obama care. number two it worked pretty well in massachusetts, as a matter of fact. he hasn't paid any price for that. is that because the voters don't get it. is that because the opposition has been so weak or what? >> i think he has paid a price for it. not yet because there haven't been any votes cast. but if we're going to talk about why the tea party-based, part of the conservative base, whatever it is, to this point rejects mitt romney i think that is front and center. think if it were not ther they would be able to get over all the other things we're talking about. it's the single businessest issue, stumbling block for m wi that base of the party. and i think it will-- it's more of a problem for him probably in the primaries than in a general election. >> harto see how it would be a problem in a general am but do you still think it would be a problem in the

imary, josh. >> rick perry you spent a lot of time with him. >> the problem with perry is he just has no basis to press that attack. for two reasons are, one texas has the highest rate of uninsured in the country. romney pointed outn the bloomberg "washington post" debate who are you to criticize with all these unemployment. at least i get my people insured. the other problem is that romney sort of excuse for why what he did what allowable and palatable was it the state's right toay i'm to the going to do thr to the country, i will revoke obamacare. perry wrote a book about the 10th amendment and the state's right so he has no standing to try and attack romney and prosecute that attack. >> but he has run an incredibly vicious and i would argue pretty darn effective ad about --. >> very effective. >> he-- even though he dropped the ball in the debate. >> he just seems to kind of -- >> i think he was very infectionive on that issue at the dartmouth debate but i thought hi ad was very effective, the perry ad. >> i think it is. in one the earlier debates

he pointed out that romney had removed some language from his book talking about-- bragging about some of these accomplishments. whici actually think is been perry's most effective attack, probably still is today. it's something that obviously as matt said is t the going to endear romney to republicans but i think the absence of someone out there really making this charge against romney and pagi it stick, and perry nd of has done that, cain doesn't seem to want to go negative. huntsman hasn't gotten any traction. paul is sort of off taujing about the fed. it's not clearo me who will come andorce that issue. >> we still have tv ads ahead of us. and i think if rick perry may be one of the most inarticulate presidential candidates we've seen in awhile. but tv can do his talk for him. there's going to be a lot of those ads on iowa tv and new hampshire. >> he has a lot of money. >> he has a lot new and he can have more. >> i mean what is shocking to me, i don't know about you guys just watching, maybe it shouldn't be at this point, is just how little new these guys have to say. and i guess to some extent i felt this way in recent

campaigns subsequently but yoknow, it's all either old proposals or obvious pr pro-- proposals or what the base wants to hear or attacks on the president. at some point to want to be president in this moment, right, where the challenges are so profound, you would think, i mean this is why herman ca ip is getting traction off the 9, 9, 9. >> he brought the new idea. >> any of these guys who bring a certificate quussly new idea to the table, i would thk would have a significant advantage, even if not everybody loves it just by being bold enough to show real leadership and none of them have. >> i think you touched on something, because my guess, and i think obama has a tough road ahead but i think it will be twofold, the attacks will be twofold. number one romney say flip-flopper. but the second attack will be that they are going to take you back to the bush years. and whatever problems obama has -- >> and that is very visceral. >> not only that, we are actually running against bush, terrific. >> so when you talk to the obama political types, what do you think is their actual calculation now, what can they do? >> well, i think the hope is, there me sign of progress.

that the turn around begins at some point betweennow and the general election. then you really do he an argument about, okay, things, as you said, everything hadn't been roses for us but you have our set of ideas and their set of ideas and ours goes retro and ours will work and are you have to give it time. anything that keeps it from being a straight referendum. but if unemployment is 9.9% next summer and this is a straight question of have their policies worked, is it time to try something else. that's a very hard one. >> i don't count him outness. >> so the choice is referendum is what it comes down to. >> part of that strategy also is going to be the white house,republicans especially in the senate saying listen we have policies to fix thing theses. you have blocked them ef lee step of the way, the jobs bill this week is the latest example. whetr th is a persuasive claim to voters is another story. but i think that's part of the white house equation for how at the will win the election. >> the two words that sum it all up fm the white house point of view is choice and

priorities. that the election will be a choice. it's not a referendum on back obama. and they think will stand up pretty well to whatever choice republicans put forward. and the other is priorities. everything they do, including this jobs bill probably most prominently is a way of illustrating his priories, versus republicans priorities, being for the middle class, being for creating jobs and you know police and firefighters, teachers in the classroom vers repuicans who don't seem to be for those things. >> the late great speaker of the california assembly just referred to money as the mother's milk of politicsment boy, there is going to be a lot of milk spilled this year. obama had a huge fund-raising quarter. romney and perry are certainly going to be products i believe us fund-raisers not to mention the outside groups, matt. >> yeah, i'm a little bit of an outliar on this point. i think-- is living in a different moment, money matters. and they're all going to raise a ton of it, the outside groups will raise a ton of it. my own feeling is that particularly in this day and age and particularly as a

negeneration of voters comes into middle age and younger voters there is a diminishing utility to it. the ads have a diminishing return. you can only open so many offices and expensive buildings in gain and honolulu. there is only some of you can spend the money on. i don't think you can speed compete under a certain level and probably true with the outside groups as well. but over a certain level there is only many media market only so many weeks toake ad buys in. >> and i think ultimately campaign does come down to something more important and a lot of it going to be field organization again. and a lot of it will be enthusiasm among your core voters. >> well, also, josh, it tends to be that money matters. if one candidate has a lot and the other doesn't have much at all t if they both have a lot, then having a little bit more than a lot doesn't really make much difference. >> considering it looks like they, if you count the superpacs and outside groups both sides will have a lot of money. what they may not have on either side especially with romney as the republican nominee. a lot of enthusiasm from either one of tear bases. you wonder how that will factor in if there will be

this volume, negativity in a low turnout election. >> i think the money is much more determinative, or will be for the reasons. they will be enly matched at the presidential level and people pay attention at the presidential level. it will be much more determine atif in the senate races and on down the ballot. and the senate could very well go republican. i mean i think the conventional wisdom is it will flip to t republican election, if the election were held tomorrow. >> interviewed actually by my wife and they both predted the senate would go republican and the house would go gem crat did -- democrat you can. you want to talk about counterinfewive, it real is. >> i could see that. >> one thing we haven't covered, romney's religion. does it matter. >> i was going to bring that up. it like the 800 pound gorilla on the table. when you were talking about why hasn't obamacare hurt him more and i think it has hurt him. and it's not gone--ut the thing that peopledon't realize unless you actually go down to places like south carolina and talk to voters is jt what a big issue

that is. a disqualifr for a lot of conservative voters. >> evangelicals, josh. >> yeah, my in-laws live in southeaste iowa and driving down theighway sometimes will you see anti-mormon billboards and i made the mistake of thinking four years ago those 4 been placed there by groups who had a problem with mitt romney. my father-in-law said no, no, those are there all the timement they just don't like mormons around here it is a real problem for him in some of these early states. i think his greatest help or the thing he has going for him is really nobody else has emerged. bachmann emerged force for a while as a person to unite the evangelical vote, maybe cain will, maybe perry will, but if you have all those guys getting a, 10% there is i path for romney. >> i must say i think it's very unfair. i do want to school in the south and i think that element is still there. >> yeah, but i think are you have to ask the same question that was pertinent to president o bama with race, which is how many of the people who are going to rule out mitt romney who was

a mormon was ever going to vote for mitt romney. >> i think it is different. these are some the conservative evangelical was vote republican. >>'m talking about a primary campaign. >> i see what u mean. >> i don't think, i don't know, as the general election issue i don't think it disqualifies him but i do think as a primary issue, there are a lot of base nservative voters who will pull the lever for somebody else. i just don't think they were going to vote for romney anyway. what does surprise me, i wonder if we will see more of this as cain gets up in the poll. because his rhetoric against the muslim community has been so, was so strident earlier in the campaign when pem were not paying as ch attention. and i do wonder when onef the two muslim-- one of the two mormon candidates on stage, right, is going to stand up for religious tolerance, you know. when that's going to get-- it does seem to me that-- within the one that will do that will be huntsman, not romney. and if you wt to have a good 10 to 1 odds right now, look at jon huntsman and new hampshire. probably won't happen. he is new hampshire type

candidate. he is further, further along in the polls in that state than gary hart was in '83, than john mccain was in '99. >> that's his whole thing. i don't think the door is closed on huntsman. i think he missed an important window when people weren't paying attention. but new hampshire is it. he is climbing into double digits. if you went back four or eight years will you see that where you are now doesn't mean where you will end up. >> i saw his family in hanover. they all moved from orlando to new hampshire. so that is -- >>e's gotten better. >> he has. listen, everybody who has hadn't ought to pick up "business week," josh green on rick perry. get "the new york times" magazine, matt bai fascinating piece on the tea party and you buy "the new york times" ery day to read jackie calmest almost all on the front page and america's moderator, charlie rose will be back on monday. we all look forward it. and i thank you all for watching. and i thank you all for being with us tonight. >> good to be here, ningo. >> thanks, al.

>> rose: daryl hl is here. the lead singer of hall and oats n 2007 he began an internet show called live from daryl's house. this september he brought it to television. he also just released a new solo album called "laughing down crying" i'm pleased to have daryl hall back at this tablement welcome. >> glad to be back. >> how long has it been since you had a solo album. >> solo album, i think, man, i don't rememberment i did one in the late 90 asee and it was then re-released in the early-- a on ti. >> why dow come back to one now. >> well, you know, i haven't really made much of any recoed music for a while. i have been so busy doing other things. and john and i decided, i know, we'ret a certain point in our lives we really want to sort of be creative on our own, after all this body of work that we've done together. so i think that that what we are doing. i think it is sort of the beginning of a new era. >> swe might be seeing live from john's house. >> i done know about live from john'house but you can see john live, that's

for sure. >> so this album -- >> i call it-- i sort of call it the boxed set. >> and the reason i say that is because it's sort of covers a l of ground with me. you know, sort of the creative, the creative progression that is element of things from my early days, sort of the ideas that i used to have in those days. and all the way up through the present sort of mixed and matched together. >> what is laughing down crime. >> it is all about sort of confusion, frustration, the good and the bad all happening simultaneously, all those things. >> and tell me how you characterize the sound. >> i think it's a pretty direct sound. i think it has a certain kind of agress go, at least for me. >> aggression. >> aggression. meaning very, it's in your face. and the arrangement and production are-- again for me, pretty sparse. and very direct. >> kind of tribute to t

bone. >> definitely a tribute every note is a tribute to t bone who-- who passed away. >> in febrry -- >> literally the first week of the project. we got through three songs and the last song s a song called problem with you, which is i call it bone's last ride on the cd. and three hours later he was gone. so that was -- >> and he was what to you? >> he was so many things to . he was pie closestriend. >> he was my coproducer, coarranger, ran my band with me. sort of created daryl's house with me. you know, just -- >> so this album, his spirit is in this album. >> every minute of it. after he-- after he died, i was really as you can imagine, flailing around. what in the world am i going to do. i knew that i had to go on because one does. but i didn't know how.

and the people that i brought in were also friends with t bone. and so he was very much-- in the room the whole project. >> the lyrics of the title track are so many times i have wondered about the way to go. should i believe in my past life or should i stay solo. >> solo, right. yeah, well that sort of describes it right there, you know. there is a lot of trsition on this record. it's a lot of what do i do now. where do i go. >> also generational. >> yeah. >> you--here you go, that's right. i have been-- you know, i have been married for two years but i have been with this family for a much longer timement and i have an 18-year-old stepdaughter anjust tned 17-year-old stepson. and i have been sort of training them both over the years, because i'm sort of a natural born music teacher. >> where did you meet her. >> in england. >> less's british. >> she is british, as are they. and you know, they're just great kids. and she's a really talented singer. and i needed somebody to

sing background and i said what are you doing. and she came . she was so professional. her name is march. >> you obviously knew that you wanted to do something that would be available to a wider audience if it clicked on the interne >> uh-huh. >> so you started out shooting it with production values that would be easily acceptable for television ogram. >> yeah. i had sort of two notions about the whole thing. i wanted the freedom that could only come from starting a show on the internet. it is a certain kind of subtlety and narrow casting that annternet show allowed me to do. if i-- in fact, in the very beginning i went to some networks and i have some pretty funny stories about that. the ideas that they had. oh, you know, why don't you have a contest at the end and have judges. how original. >> you kw. and it just wouldn't have flown if i had gone directly to networks. so i really wanted to get, again, i feel that the present and the future are in getting a very loyal

tribe on your side. i think this requested being everything to everybody is a sort of an old-fashioned idea. and so ir, by having th show othe internet i really got my tribe going. and that consists of people who have been with me for decades and a lot of new kids, a new generation. >> when you did this did you have other issues-- shows in mind? >> i didn't really, no, no. >> did you think i will do this well and i will be able -- >> it really does say something about it. >> i had sort of the same kind of opportunity. didn't start on the internet but because i didn't start big i had a chance to make it into my own. have the freedom to do what you wanted to do rather than ople who start a television program and they say, you know, that we just want to do this and let's find somebody who can do this rather than a program being an extension of who you are. i mean, you know, john knows this and you know this well. daryl's house is who you are. >> it couldn't be more who i am. >> exactly. >> it's literally in my kitchen, in my house with my friends.

i tried to create that mood, you know. and that's another thing is that i think it's maybe the first showver, really. people tell me it is, anyway, where an odd yenses that's watching this thing feels like they are not -- >> sitting in the really. >> they feel like they are in with you. you are listening to people, musicians interact. nobody knows what musicians are really like. >> i have some chicken sauce, make some vegetables i there too. and the guys are goingo crank their own sauceage, put the casings on there. >> when you say making you mean like picking out the stuff you want in it. >> we'll start off with some park. >> you want to addome cheese, some cil interes o. >> i will make it with smisy cheese. >> he's not shy, get it reons i'm ready to get down. >> that's enough, man. >> all right. >> oh yeah, the fun starts. >> look at that. >> oh. >> theret goes.

>> oh! >> wow. >> it's a boy. >> yh. (laughter) within and how is it dichb today than when you started it four years ago? >> well, it's evolved. i started. i loved the first one. i didn't foe what i was doing. i had some friends hold some handi cams. it's pretty funny. and then fairly soon on i said well i think i need a director so i brought a director in who sort of organized it all. we have started bringing in multicameras. we added guests. i thought okay, that was the third shot, we state let's have me interact with a guest. and preferably -- >> how do you like that part. >> i love that part. that's my favorite part is i'm meeting these people for the first time. every week is a blind date. >> andou never know where it's going to go, totally unscripted. >> totally on your toes, there's no rehearsal. we don't do any rehearsal other than homework, people learn the songs beforehand. we get in that room and what

you are seeing is what is happening for e first time. and then i added food, because you got t eat when you are playing music right. so it al went from there. >> and did it, i think it won a award,. >> it did, it won a webbie award last year. >> andhat s it for. >> it was the best-- best variety show. and i love that. i don't know what the variety is but best variety show on the internet. >> and how did you get it on commercial television? >> i talked to some people and went-- i -- >> you didn' need to presena show. they could go on-line and see it. >> exactly. >> it was a sense of what we think it's going to be. >> it is what it is. and i went the syndicated route because i thought that that was the right way to go with it. and every-- i didn't -- >> it grows market by market. >> yeah. >> now is it going to change because it's now seen on television. >> no, it's not going it to change at all. that's the whole thing. >> that's what got you there. >> i love it the way it is.

i reedit it and make it a little tighter but that is the only change. >> and did you some episode from hawaii. >> i did an episode with tom-- an old friend of mine and that was great, you know. at his house. i went to todd's house for a change so we reversed the whole thing. >> who is yo favorite guest. >> well, todd and i always get along so well. but i had smoky robinson on who was my childhood idol. you wanted to be smoky robinson so that was prett exciting. and then. >> longevity says a lot, doesn't it. >> yeah, but you know, i love meeting these new bands. i really do. i think they are some of my favote shows. >> and you learn from them. where arthey going that-- that you might not have known without sing them and meeting them and knowing with music. >> you know what i like, the most about this whole new generation, at least the ones that i encounter are, their expectations are different than peoplef my generation. where you could, if you

clicked would you sell millions and millions of records without any problem. now that's just not going to happen. it isn't going to fly like that. so these kids, i call them kids, but most of them are, in their early 20s. they have lowered expectations. but it frees them in some way because they feel like if they work hard they can get their tribe together, again i use that word. and have a working career, make a certain amount of money but the idea of untold riches and living like rock stars and it doesn't really, i don't think, click in their heads any more to do that. it humbles them, grounds them and it makes them i think better for it. >> did you see something of you and john and jagger and keith or did-- mick and keith. >> i think that there is-- there has always been a similarity in ou interaction, yes. the way we-- the way john and i company --. >> relate is the same way that dns we sort of met at

e same period in our lives as teenagers. we've performed when we worked together we perform sort of the same functi. you know, there's a lot of similarities when we write. >> how did you a john start. >> w starte in phillie. and he had-- we were teenagers, just entering, getting ouof high school and going to, we were both going to go to temple university. and i had a single that i had just done, who were people, producers in philadelphia who became quite famous. created the sound of philadelphia, basically. and john was working in a-- actually he was working sort of on the periphery of that himself with his band. and we met at a place where you lip sink your record and do that kind of stuff. >> right. >> and we booth knew that we were. >> was there chemistry or was it just simply the fact

that you complemented each other. >> i think it was more in the beginning, especially more mplementing each other. we both had the sa interest. we both were going to the same school. we need a room, college roommates and that sort of thing. and i think we sort of got to know each other more as roommates and then we started making somemusic together. >> do you consider philadelphia hometown, do you think of it the way most of us think of hometown. >> yeah. if you grow up in philadelphia you are from phillie. >> you are for life. >> i read somewhere where you we asked about what the best advice you ever got and you said your mother who said don't sing from your throat, sing from your diaphragm, bring it down. >> that's right. >> and then let it come out. >> that's absolutely true. she was a vocal teacher and she taught me how to sing from when i was two, three years old. and a lot of people lose their voices, throat singers. and you know, diaphragm voices don't lose their voices. >> how do you, beyond that,

how else do you train the whole mechanism? how do youmake sure that you are not only is it continuing but that it's as strong as ever. >> i don't do anything. >> you don't do anything to damage it. >> i don't do anything to damage it. i try, you know, i try and live as well as i can. and i pace myself absolutely ce myself. but other than that, it's just really, again, i think you could use the muscle analogy. as long asou keep doing it, it keeps you in shape. >> and the show that you are doing now, live from daryl's house, how do you see the future of that? >> it's -- >> will that keep you away from doing concerts in. >> no, no. in ft, i'm going to start doing daryl's house live, live from daryl's house live. and that's going to start. i already did one. i did one with todd, in philadelphia it was a great success. it really worked.

it's interesting to figure out w to take tha experience and that mood and bring it on to the stage without turning it into a normal performance with an audience am but we figured out how to do it. so i will am going to be doing more of those with various artists, with the different people who wil be on the show. i don't know. >> start doing duos. >> yeah, hey, i'm used to do that. >> so speaking of that, why do you think you gu had such phenomenal success. i mean on-- obviously did you what you did well, but off then is something that is called an x factor which means that individuals or a group had something that transcends what they are together. >> yeah. >> that x factor thing, that's a hard call. from the person that's x. >> yes, you know? all i know is-- it is sometimes called magic. >> we do have collective,

together, and individually we have a magic. and it has something to do with the way we approach the music. we're not the ly people in the world making what i will call honest music because authentic. but we do do tt. i think that i speak about things that other people, at least i have been told this, that other people can't say themselves. and say it for them. there's that kind of thing. there's a certain intergenerational. >> it is the gift of a writer or songwriter to find the capacity to say something that-- better than anyone can say it, or even feel it but they know that you are speaking what they feel. if you can do that you at least have an opportunity. >> yes. >> in a sense, if you can do it for one person you probably can do it for a lot of people. >> yeah, well i have been told that that happens, from many, many people over the years. so that's a good thing. >> anything you haven't done that you want to do? >> well, i don't know.

i don't know. >> you traveled everywhere. >> i have traveled. >> a great family. great relationships. >> i'm really very fulfilled. but that doesn't mean that i am-- that doesn't-- the fulfillment doesn't slow me down. you know, i'm so busy, inedibly busy doing these things that i love to do. i'm sure if something else comes up, i don't know. i meanhere is a whole new world of television opening up to me. who knows what i will do. >> it's global. >> that's thother thi. isn't that great about it. somedy can sit in nigia. >> yeah. >> and watch live fm daryl. >> they can do that right now on the internet, that's for sure, exactly. >> great to see you again. >> good to be here. ♪ so many times i've wondered ♪ ♪ about the way we're going ♪

♪ should i be living my past life ♪ ♪ or should i stay solo ♪ once in a world roll around me ♪ ♪ you make it rise and fall ♪ ♪ i've never known anyone ♪ like you ♪ know one at all ♪ i need some time ♪ ♪ you got me laughing down crying ♪ ♪

>> funding from charlie rose is provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. >> an american express. additional funding provided by these funders.