>> rose: welcome to our program, we begin this evening with the look at the american presidential race with mark halperin of "time" magazine, couthor of the best selling kboox game change "also maggie haberman of "politico" which broke the story about herman cain. >> there is one track of the soap opera of all this and how herman cain is dealing with it in the spotlight and another of investigative reporting. there is a finite amount of investigative reporting wattage at the news organizations that still do investigative reporting. almost all of that is currently trained on herman cain. so it is's not on mitt romney and his record or rick perry or anybody else. 's all on him. >> rose: we continue this evening by looking at the g-20 conference in france and the ongoing greek debt crisis with gillian tett, u.s. managing editor of "the financial times" and ian bremmer, president of the your asia group. >> it is a g-0, not g-20.

there is an absence of leadership. after world war ii, the last time we had an emergence of a new world order, the united states put 10% of its out there. the chinese aren't that the japanese aren't that no one out there is going to make that kind of a fix, so we are trying to grapple with the fact that there is creative destruction happening right now in the goo political space it happens all the time in the markets it doesn't happen with the world order. >> once again people were looking to this week's sum wit hope that there without actually be some kind of plan forthcoming. if the europeans couldn't get their act together the hope was and perhaps the influence of president obama and the imf leader would actually force them to do it. but yet again they are look tore solutions and they're not really dealing with the fundamental problems. >> rose: also thisvening a look ahead at an explus-- exclusive interview with mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg of facebook. >> if you look past f the 7 years, the story of social

networking has really been go about getting these 800 million connected so they can stay in touch with all these people who thecare about and getting them signed up for facebook and all that. but if you look forward for the next five years, i think that the story that people are going to rememr five years from now isn't how this one site was built t was how every single service that you use is to you going to be better with your friends because they can tap into your friends. so whether it's music services, and we just announced this new product, a little more than a month ago. and since then, some of the music services that are out there, spotifi has grown from a little more than 3 million users with face bok to now more than 7 million users with facebook. >> rose: we conclude with joan didion's memoir of her late daughter, it is called blue knight. >> it is not a narrative. the only book i have really written that was to the a narrative, it was entirely different way of writing a

book. >> rose: presidential politics, greek debt, a look ahead at facebook and mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg and joan dion when we continue. funding for arlie rose was provided by the following.

>> from our studios in new york city this is charlie rose. we begin this evening with a look at presidential politics. we turn first to the allegations surrounding republican presidential candidate herman cain. last week "politico" reported that cain sexually hassed two women when head of the national restauran assoation in the 1990s. kane has dend the charges describing them as a witch-hunt. one of the women who filed complaint ma a statement to her attorney today. she alleges a series of inappropriate behaviors. in recent weeks cain has emerged as a serious challenge tore front-runr mitt romney it remains to be

seen how the story will evolve and whether cain can survive it here to talk about it, mark halperin of "time" magazine and maggie haberman of "politico", welcome. thank you. so tell me since you guys broke this story, where is the story what is the moment that we are in right now? >> right now the national restaurant association has confirmed one of these complaints. a woman received a $45,000 severance package from the national restaurant association after complaints she made. they didn't confirm the dollar figure. she is not going to say anything. herman cain campgn is trying to move on past this is aing they don't want to talk about this any more and now we head into the weekend and we head into a seriesf debates. and his poll numbers are continuing to stay high. he says his supporters have shown no interest in this. and that he s continued to raise money aggressively. >> rose: so you think he sur vice-- survived? >> i think at the moment he seems to be doing very well. >> rose: unless another shoe. >> i think we will see how it plays out. but for now a lot of iowa

voters are certainly saying this is not really wh they will base their vote on. >> rose: and if he does well in iowa. >> if he does well in iowa he can continue on, at least for a time. >> rose: what do you think? >> there's one track of just the soap opera of all this and how herman cain is dealing wit it as someone in the spotlight. there is another track of the investigative reporting there is a finite amount of investigative reporting wattage at the news organizations that still do investigative reporting. almost all of that is currently trained on herman kane. so it's not on mitt romney and his record. it's not on anything about rick perry or anybody else, it's all on him, and that's another track. another track is we've all said for months there is going to be an mitt romney alternative. for a while it em sood like it could be herman kane, it might be still, but this good for mitt romney because it is taking all the attention off him. keeping rick perry from growing in any meaningful way and if cain survives this, it probably means he can't grow his support too much but it means can take up a big chunk of votes that will allow romney an easy

pass to nomination. >> rose: does thisean romney will change his strategy about iowa? wince don't think this has any impact on that in the short term. romney has a couple months to you before the voting. he has probably two or three weeks to decide does he go on tv there. what does he nd to do to position himself. my sense from having been up in boston earlier this week and visited with the romney people, my sens is they are basilly going to continue to keep their options open but they increasingly see the possibility of ending this nomination fight, win iowa, win new hampshire and end it. >> rose: it's over if they do that. >> yeah. >> rose: they i have a full head of steamness. >> right. >> rose: people tracking the story and looking at the poll results, what do the people who either support him or might be inclined to support him say it's some witch-hunt? how do they view it? >> this is being handled in an unorthodox way. this is not a normal campaign in the sense that there are not a lot of people who work for it. this is someone who hasou know, we're focused on this

and the allegations. but herman kane has done 15 things in the last five weeks that would have killed any other presidential candidate or at least severely crippled him. making it clear he didn't know china had nuclear weapons. making it clear he didn't understand middle east policy. making it clear didn't know what a theyo con was. >> rose: he did not know china had nuclear weapons. >> no, he said he is worried about china getting a nuclear weapon. so there is a strange phenomenon which is his supporrs don't much care about anything except that he is an outsider, a businessman, he's got this tax plan people know about nine, nine, nine. in our circles, people assume he's going to be dead. national poll came out, "washington post", abc news, he's up there with mitt romney as the front-runner. his supporters within the campaign and more broadly are using all the things the people on the right do when one person, when someone th like isnder siege. it's the liberal media's fault it they going after him because he is an

african-american conservative wch is the thing that liberals fear the most. and that rhetoric has been effective for otr past republican candidates. john mccain, not a tea party hero or favorite of the right, very effectively used that kind of rhetoric going after "the new york times" when they ran a story about its personal life. so within the party, not necessarily the broader electorate but within the parties's certainly something that is effective. the last thing i will say is if you look at the polling, he was never as popular with women as he was with men. and this is hurting him with women. and to the extent he had a pass to nomination before which i think he did and maybe still does. >> rose: a path to the nomination. he could emerge as the romney-- as a romney challenger and bearomney. >> romney could win iowa and south carolina but this are about his two worst states and if someone else wins those and heads into florida, could be kane still and that would be a very strong position to be in. doesn't necessarily mean they beat romy for the nomination abut if you win iowa, you have a good chance

to win south carolina, florida. u win all three of those, romney cld still survive that. he's that strong at this point. but it would be tough. >> rose: okay. but the fact that he slipped, not romney but cain, said he didn't, then said it was romney leaking it, then said it wasn't romney leaking itment and first he said he didn't know that there had been a settlement, all that stuff. do people who are going to vote for him look at all at and say-- what. >> not his most ardent supporters, no. think certainlyeople who are considering him will look at that and perhaps give it a second thought but he does have a very strong core of supporters in iowa. now is it as high as the 23%. i think that was his number that he pulled out in the des moin register poll last weekend. i'm not sure. i think it might be less than that. some people in iowa think it might be less than that. but he does have a hard group of people who are backing him, who have not moved off of this, who say they don't believe these allegations are true. they don't think there's much there. they think there's more important issues. there are more focused on the economy an they like what he has to say. now the question is, again

back to the 23rd% f he really does have 23% of support in iowa he will do very well, if he's able to hold on to that. if it's less than that, half of that, three quarters of that, is he able to turn that amount out. he doesn't really have an organization. and so we're going see if he can a build one or b is he going to put to the test the rules of early state politicking. >> rose: where is the perry campaign? >> the perry campaign is other than denying the allegations from herman cain that saying they nothing to do with the story, rick perry is trying very hard to come back from his own not great week. in theory herman cain not doing well as many have noted would help rick perry. perhaps those voter was come back to rick perry who went away from him. but perry has spent a week talking about a speech he gave in new hampshire where he seemed off. he seemed there were question approximates about-- or something. and there were questions -- >> do we now know why he seemed off. >> his campaign insists he was not on any pain

medication, not drinking. but it's never a good day when the candidate is spending a week with news stories that begin with a lead. the candidate was to the drunk when he delivered a speech in new hampshire. so he is trying very hard to get back on track. and with mixed success. he is now on the air in iowa. in new hampshire. we will see if this makes the numbers. >> what does very to do. what is it he has to change in order to get back on track? he has to redefine himself. i think his advisors believe he was a pretty known quantity out of texas and he was not out of texas. so he made some mistakes in these debates in addition to em soing tired at points. unknowledgeable at certain points. he made a couple of statements on key issues like immigration that really turned off hard-core conservatives. and now he is very defined. he needs, frankly he needs what john kerry had which is an earlier collapse and then months to come back. i don't know that he has enough time to come back. but he needs to completely redefine himself. >> no one else is coming in, correct. >> we're done. >> we're done. the deadlines are such.

>> you couldn't get in. >> that's right. >> the only way someone who is not in the field becomes a nominee isf everyone collapses and the part party-- coalesce around somebody at the convention. >> i mean is there a scenario that looks like a logical -- >> only if a rom know's glass jaw turns out to be the most fragile jaw in the world. >> is he contiing to run a go campaign even thou he had that flip-flop in ohio. >> the ohio one is a bit of a bum wrap. not totally a bum wrap, but it illustrates the problem he has. which is he is held to an extremely high standard by both the democrats and the republicans on the same that this guy say flip-flop, will say anything to get elect. he said around the ohio thing before and since, four other things that will flip-flops or weird phrasing that people can use in television ads. that is-- in that realm he's not much of a better candidate but in most other ways he is a better candidate than four years ago. and far better than everybody else in the field. >> does the obama administration believe that they can beat him because of

this notion that they will attack his core? >> they do. they also believe -- >> and define how they see that. >> david axelrod likes to say that presidential campaigns are mries of the soul. and they believe that when the mri of mitt romney's soul is taken there will be little there to see. they believe over time two things will happen to mitt romney if he is the nominee. one is people will find him unlikeable and principles pald and t other is they will find his policies a return to the bush era economic policies that got into us this mess in the first place. that applied with $80 million in negative ads, those two messages, they are-- . >> rose: -- more money than romney. >> my sense currently on balance, both sides will have the old thing. both sides will have so much money and enough money. there is a 12 state campaign, not a 50 state campaign. in those 12 states there will be saturation of everything you want to spend money on, not just tv and radio ads but direct mail

and people going door to door. i don't think the money will matter. it did for years ago. the president's campaign outspent senator mccain. >> rose: and they had different money too. they kept going back to the well all the time. let me make sure, those 12 states are obviously florida, ohio, that's two of them, virginia, north carolina, pennsylvia is five, nevada, new mexico, arizona, colorado, iowa, wisconsin. >> rose:nd what do you have to do to qualify to be one of the 12 states? >> you have to have a certain amount of independent voters and be something of a swing. >> rose: so you become a swing state. >> correct. >> rose: all those states are places tha could go anyway. >> or hispanic voters. >> rose: even though some have republican governors like in ohio and florida. >> what gets you on the list besides talking with campaigns is the recent history of who has won them and what the president's standing is there. what is his standing in ohio, pretty good. >> it's all right, not great. the economy is bad. i mean the president starts

with 190 electoral vote, the republican will certainly start with 190 electoral votes. so those are made up of other states that won't be as competitive. >> rose: is your judgement this will be a rip-roaring close caaign? >> it is. i think that you have-- this was a conversation that came up recently with a couple of people i was speaking to. and you store of-- sort of had obama in one camp and the republicans it in the other and they are actually pretty level. as mark indicated are you playing for a relatively small piece of the pie. >> rose: what will be the big issues of the campaign. >> the economy. i think it is going to be the dominant theme. >> rose: is it more a referendum on obama's handling of the economy or a referendum on who has the best ideas for the future of the economy. >> obama needs to make it not be a referendum on his handling of the economy. it if it is that, he will have a problem. >> rose: does health care play a role. >> i think health care will be less of a role than people think it will. i think it will come back but less of a role. >> i think health care will be a big base generator for

the republicans. i ask every democratic strategist show me your candidates who will run on health care. you don't found a lot of people raising your hands. lots of republicans not just at the republican level will be running on let's repeal obama care. if the it is about his record, he can't win. it is his handling the economy. if it is about mitt romney's authenticity, romney can't win. the presint has a choice about whether he depends -- if he asked for a second chance, americans tend to like to re-elect the incumbent, doesn't seem like they are headed that direction but that may be the way he has to go to win. >> rose: is barack obama a good candite? >> i think barack obama comes in this with a record that he has to defend that is going to be very difficult for him. >> rose: sow can't as he did last time run on a blank slate. >> no, he is defined, he is just a politician to some extent as some of his advisors have even said at this point because he has been president. so what he has going for him, and i think tell me if you

disagree with this, but he does have gng for him the fact that he is personally popular. voter does like him. and i think to the extent that he can make it about a character issue, if it's against a mitt romney that is his biggest selling point right now. >> rose: when you guys at the end of the day, are you in the bar. >> or the gym. >> rose: or the gym, wherever you are, what is the conversation about these ys? clearly it's whether what will happen onain. clearly on senator-- clearly whether romney can win in iowa and then move to new hampshire and get rolling. what else. >> does perry have a comeback in him. and then account president improve his standing between now and the determination of the republican nominee. a lot of people think he request wait until there is a republican nominee and turn it on. if you look at history, by april he needs to be stronger than he is. what can he do, what he is trying to do to strengthen that position. >> i would say a subset is to what extent can the

democrats harness or want to harness the occupy wall street movement, that is an open question. >> rose: an interesting question. does he want to run as a populist. >> to some extent and with some people. i think they are concerned about appealing to this movement that characterizes itself as populist but doesn't have a really dened-- . >> rose: can you run as a populist and still take the center? >> you can. it is difficult. but you certainly can. he has enough that a poles to the center that he will be able to. also working in his favor is that the republican party has moved so hard right on issues like immigration, there is a lot of concern within republican circles about whether republicans will be able to pov back. >> rose: my other thing i would add to that from the limited knowledge base about all of dh, is whether the need on the part of the republican party to defeat president obama, for whatever reason they believe about where the country shifted is so overwhelming that they will close ranks behind whoever is the minee. >> i think there is some concern right now that the

bitter primary is going to krot a problem for that but they will coasce. the energy is finitely not on t democratic side it is absolutely on the republican side. >> rose: all the energy last time was on his side. >> it was. and mitt romney, i think is skilled enough if he wins the nomination to not have-- turn off too many people on the conservative side who really want to beat the president. >> rose: he's not so unacceptable. >> and i think he is that unacceptable but i think he is skilled enough to pay for that. to go back to what maggie said about the president being likable, that to me remains the bottom line. mitt romney has to come through, not just being acceptable, he must be sufficiently likable. will never b alikeable as the president, the broad public. >> rose: so you can't win the presidency if you are not likable. >> in the television era the more likable person has won every election. it is about the most hard and fast rule we have of who wins. >> rose: the most likable person is most likely to win.

>> i mean, you know, jimmy carter, gerald ford, you decide w is me likable. at the time jimmy carter was the more likable person. >> rose: but gerald ford-- really. >> i will say. >> i think in the public imagination. >> i think that is right. >> rose: of course you couldn't hardly have known. and going back to why herma cain actually could enup enduring dependingow this plays out he is very likable. >> rose: en amoung the press. >> correct. heis absolutely. >> watch the eye way state texas a & m game with hi, couldn't have been more enjoyable. >> he came in to where we were preparing for the debate that i moderated. and everybody liked him there was a great response to him this is all before all this hes with a guy, he was a guy. >> right. >> rose: that you could t and have a beer with. >> yeah. and-- . >> rose: that is what george bush had too. >> he has shown a certain toughness if dealing with this. he's not cracked, at least not in public. >> that's true. but he has obviously liked some of his likability. and to go back to our first

topic, until and unless one of these women speak on camera, in the media video age in which we live, i think he is much more stole i had position. >> rose: you think can survive this. >> if any of them come out and speak on camera and are compelling that would change things dramatically. >> rose: victims always make it so in a courtroom or courthouse. >> a lot of his supporters and people in iowa still see hims alikeable. this hasn't broken through and shorted that it is remote. a long time ago, the accusations are fuzzy. if there is someone on camera with a comlling story, i think his likability comes into question. >> rose: there is a notion that somehow thicountry eds great debates and part of it has to do with spending cuts and whether we have a grand bar in terms of the economy. how do you match up growth and necessity of growth and our future versus the demand for spending cuts. all those things. there is another big issue which is the role of government. can people develop a narrative that makes that a theme that is appealing. >> i think that is largely

what are you see on the republican paeferment i think that every ep republican candidate is look for the theme about the diminute shalled role of government in your lives. rick perry opened his campaign with i want to make washington as inconsequential in your life as possible. but defining what exactly that means is proven tough. the more plans they issue, the more in the weeds they get so i think it's hard. >> the last question, i promise. >> the president losing his narrative and needing to gain a new narrative, is it simply that it's tough to be president and i've done some good things but if you go to the other guy it will be worse than mi. >> that-- he's got to decide whether he says give me a second chance veus what i have done -- >> i think might, at least semi. >> is he capable of that. >> unclear of whether he is capable of doing it the right way. he needs a narrative about, needs it all along which is to say what is his actual vision of how to bring the american economy back.

i think the debate in the republican context for the most part, not certainly at the bloomberg, but for the most hart has been very disa point. they have not engaged day-to-day on the big issues. i think a romney versus obama contest could engage that way and that would be beneficial to country. and i think it would help the country get its narrative back, not on petition at but on roll of government and taxation. i think he could get back a format and environment which can explain himself that would be to h benefit. >> rose: thank you. we turn to the global economic the g-20 summit ended today in cannes france. the crisis was intensified by greek prime minister pap an due unexpected announcement mday that he intended to put the bailout to a referendum. yesterday announced greece had sdraped the referendum. tonight the government survived a confidence vote in parliament.

joining me and ian brem mer, i'm pleased to have both of them never here. where are we. >> it is a complete mess. ce again people were looking to this week's summit with hope that there would be a plan forthcoming. if the europeans cldn't get their act together the hope was that perhaps the influence of president o bomba and the imf leaders would actually force them to do it. but again they are looking for solutions and they're not really dealing with the fundamental problems. >> rose: what do they have to do. they have to make a decision are they going pull together as a fiscal union, closer together fiscal union and find a way to try and really recapitalize the banks and have a big enough monday to-- fund to actually deal with thes investor panics about the state of the global markets or eventually accept that greece is going to leavthe union. >> rose: is that the choice. >> they're not there yet. i agree with gillian, it's taking time. i don't understand why it was the markets actually had

expectations that the g-20 was going to come together and provide a solution. i didn't think the actors made it clear that was where they were heading. you saw sarkozy last week put out the chappeau to the chinese for a little cash and came back with very little. the chinese said they would go multilateral which is chinese code for we're not going to do very much. the russians said maybe up to 10 billion, the brits said they might do 30 billion those are incretmental steps, are you filling up the buck wet more cash that can be used but are you not resolving it because european constitutions-- institutions have to the been resolved this is not a crisis for a few weeks and we're done. this is going to take years. and i just don't think there is a lot of patience out there. as a consequence, our expectation force a recession in europe are going up. our expectations for banking crisis are going up too. >> rose: they don't have years. >> they don't have years. >> and the risk of contagion for other economies like america are also going up. i mean what this really shows clearly is that we're

currently at a juncture where there is nobody that can sort out mess by themselves and in many way wes is not beein this position for decades because there has been the presumption that the u.s. if it threw its weight around enough like in the asian financial crisis or even the latin american debt crisis, although decades ago that they could find a solution or the imf working with the u.s. but this time around it really is about europe and the european leaders are pretty fragmented. >> but is it also a signal that the united states does not have the influence or resources in the world any more that it had before. >> also the question would the united states have the desire to do that any more. and what is also clear is the chinese are n really stepping in to fill that vacuum. we are moving from is a-- it is pretty messy and as a result things are taking a long time as ian said. >> we're moving from a uni polar world to a nonpolar world. it's a g-0, not a g-20. the is an absence of

leadership. after world war ii when we-- the last time we had the emergence of a new world order the united states put 10% of its gdp out there for the marshall plan. 10% that was seous. thchinese aren't that. the japanese aren't that. no one out there is going to make that kind of a fix. and so what we are-- we are trying to gap el with the fact that there is creative destruction haening right now in the goo political space it happens all the time in the markets. it doesn't happen with the world order. we're not used to that. and so we say that there is a g-20. and we're lookinto find some kind of leadership to come out but it's not there. it is not that the united states doesn't have influence. you look at the sizef the u.s. economy. it's not like it shrunk from last year. by far it's the biggest game in town but the america are distracted not just from an election but with a 9% unemployment rate, that's in reality much higher than that. and wi massive austerity issues they have to deal with themselves. so the idea that the americans are going to play this role just isn't there. i think the markets for some reason haven't yet quite

taken that joke on board. >> there's no one else that is going to step in, is there. there is no one prepared to step in. the chinese are not ready to step in. >> this is a european problem. and it going to be a european solution and because they're not all there, as gillian just id t going to be a sticking-- muts el through. >> one of the real problems right now is that what needs to happen as a senior euro zone policymaker said to me t if somebody those go to the germans and said just as you receivedhe marshall plan from the u.s. and america gave that, without any expectation immediate payback and yet with tremendous long-term benefits, now it's time for germany to pass on the historical baton and help other parts of the your eurozone. and some might say we did that with reunification but ineality now is the moment when german has tpass on that historical baton. the problem though is that there is no signs of a german leadership wants to do that until and tell the public that is what they ed to do. because in reality the

public is very hostile. >> what is the time line here. i mean how long do they have to figure out a way to do something? >> you know this is such-- it is a question of investor psychology. i mean the markets are so concerned right now at i can ll you a date, and it will turn out to be wrong because tomorrow there will be another crisis. that's where we are right now. they need years. they don't have years. >> rose: but here's a crucial issue. until 2007, the beginning of the credit crisis and recent financial turmoil many people in the market thought you could predict the future way spreadsheet and all you really needed was numbers about the economy. what the last crisis has shown is it is real about politics and sociology. what is scares people in the markets is you can't put that into a spreadsheet. you have investors around the world who have no traing to make sense of this kind of stuff and the living in extremely uncertain world. so it's no surprise markets are seesawing back and forth witholility. >> is it possible that the chinese will reconsider this and say this is a moment for us to, you know, assert our

coming of age as not only the second most powerful economy in the world but also as the come economic giant of the world? >> well, the chinese are quite torn internally. there is a part of the chinese leadership at the moment that is very wary putting money into europe. they have had their fingers burnt in the american banks, banking sector back in 2008-2009. and they know they face opposition to that and china is still groping for a position about where it wants to be in the world and how assert difficult wants to tbe. >> the chinese aren't going to do it pakistan desperately needed their help. and was a strategic play for them, much closer to where they actually are in the world. and they were a penny short. and very, very late in the game. and that's because to actually get into a new strategic decisionor economic spending through china right now you needs

consensus. you have to have the pboc, the people's bank of china a. you have to have the leadership and commercialality. the europeans aren't prepared to give them auid pro quo and that's what they would want. and the chinese aren't prepared to get behind it. instead you will see them throwing a lite cash in the context of folks also riding lowest common denominator. if greece goes under watch them bottom feed them will pick up cheap assets that is where the chinese will spends their money. >> you can buy a lot of greek island right now probably pretty cheaply. >> rose: so what do you say to the average american about what this mean force him or her? >> well, tell you one thing it shouldn't mean, which is that they can just forget about the debates in congress and washington. because right now america's getting a bit of a free pass on the global markets because people are watching the eurozone and they're bung a lot of treas reese and so yields are low. but what is happening in terms of the debates about the american fiscal problemses

shouldn't be ignored. but what it really means in terms of the yurbz problems is that-- eurozone problem, unfortunately the outlook for the global economy right now is not good. >> rose: because in fact if somehoeurope closes down and the u.s. market closed down, the chinese economy would be in trouble and the whole global economy -- >> the u.s. is clearly in better shape long-term than the chinese or the europeans. the phrase of this whole year has been kick the can. if you want to kick the can down the road, you have to hit the can, and you have to have road. and the americans,the chinese and europeans have all been doing that and they have been thus far hitting the can. the europeans are having a hard time hitting the can. but the country with road is the united states. and ulted-- ultimately they have shown they can govern, not very efficiently but when the crisis comes they avoid it they avoid it on the debt limit. they will avoid it on the supercommittee. >> rose: how do you think they will avoid it on the supercommittee. >> i think they willind 1.2 trillion. >> rose: a combination of tax and spending. >> i think it is-- some of it will be back dating, iraq

coming down, some playing with the inflation number. some of it will be actual changes in expenditure, for example aviation security fees some of the subsidies given to farmers i think will be brought down. some of the government pension contributions will be brought up. in other words, there are-- this is small beans for a country the size of the united states. and the democrats and republicans are not going to show that they can work together in vabs. they are going to punish each other pretty hard but at the end of the day, they can get to that headline number. i think they will. >> rose: final question, when are we going to see is the so-called rstablishing of whatever the new world order going to be? >> that is the big, big question. because you really have to go back to the-- agreement for the last time when you had a world that was so rueterless. >> rose: in terms of leadership and arrangement. >> yeah, one thing that is clear is that the pressures that are mounting could potentiallprotect quite fast. but unfortunately, at the moment, we don't yet have

the clear direction of where it is going. >> rose: the place has been shifting for 40 years. the u.s. versus china, developed versus developing. creditor versus debtor and despite all of the shocks it is only in 2008 which is when suddenly the global architecture came crumbling down. this is not a matter that will be resolved in a few months or years. the evolution-- . >> rose: what will be determinive. >> the relationship of the u.s. and china t will be terly critical because the two most important economies in the world. they are massively interdependent yet they have economic systems and political values that are at odds with each other. >> rose: thank you. >> we take a moment now to prevw our show coming up on monday it is an exclusive interview with the founder of facebook mark zkerberg and his chief operating officer sheryl sandberg. here is an excerpt. >> there are many people who look to silicon valley and

they say, there are four platforms, amazon, ale, google, facebook. what we are going to wness over the next ten years is a flat out war between the fewer of you for the future. what do you see? >> i mean, people like to talk about war. you know -- >> conflict. >> there are a lot of ways in which the companies actually work together there are real competitions in there. but i don't think that this is going to be the type of situation where there is one company that wins all this. >> rose: are you already getting in each other's business. >> google i think in some ways is more competitive and certainly is trying to build their own little version of facebook. but you know, when i look at amazon and apple and i see compans who were extremely aligned with us, and we have a lot of conversations with people in both companies just trying to figure out ways that we can do more together and there's just a lot of reception there. >> there are no borders for

us, because we want everything to be social and we prefer everything to be social with face book so for us our goal is really to work across. we want to work on every -- >> so if you are amazon, one of the big strategs is sell kindl so you can sell pore things. if you are apple a big part of your strategy is sell devices because that is how you make money. if are you google they want to get android as widely adopted as possible. our goal is not to build a platform, it's to be across l of them. because our mission is to help people connect and stay connected with people no matter what device these are on. >> there is one thinghat i think is most important that is true of facebook is that we are focused on doing one thing incredibly well. i think if you look at other companies, all of these companies are doing lots of different things but we are still as we grow, doing exactly one thing. >> rose: here's the thing you think you can't do. >> it is true, there is a colear to what you just said it is true we are could fuss-- focused on this one thing but because there is

all this other stuff out there that means that facebook has evolved as a partnership company. >> that's right. which is very different from the way that apple or google or amazon or microsoft or any of these folks are if apple or google wants to build a product, they typically go build it whereas if facebook wants to make it, we want to rethink how people listen music or watch movies we build a platform for people to connect and enable all these different companies, dozens of companies to pg in. companies that are big companies, small companies. things that don't even exist. it's a really different approach than what all these other companies have. >> you want to provide a mean force people to look at movies, to listen to music. >> we build the social technology. they provide the music. we don't want people to use facebook to watch moes or read newspaper articles. >> you want to -- >> we want to provide the social technology so we want them to listen music on the

iphone or through apple or through-- anything they want. we want them to watch movies any where. we just want facebook to have a share wherever they are. so we do this one thing ich underlies this huge partnership strategy. and it does make us, i think, pretty different than many of the other companies are you taing about. >> just take the movies thing as an example. >> the biggest movie companies that are partners right now and building on top of our platform are netflix and hulu. and i guess hulu is more on the tv side. but people can share all kinds of videos that they ar watching. you can see the top things that your friends are watching so i could go to your profile or time line and if you want you can have a box up there that, what are the tv shows that you watch the most. and i can go ahead and click ton and take me right to the hulu app and i can start watching that. that i think is really powerful. the piece that facebook is doing, is saying okay, we're friends, right. and allowing you to share that i want to express to people what are the tv shows

that i like. and now facebook is giving me a place to go see what you want to watch if you want to share that. but then from there, you click on it and it takes you to hulu or netflix or if you want to listen muss particar takes you to spotify or one of these other companies. joan didion sheer. she won a national book award for a book the year of magical thinking it is an account of the year following the death of her husband john gregory dunn. she says she writes to discover what she is thinking. her new book blue knights though is one she almost couldn't write it is the story of her daughter who died in 2005 at the age of 39. the book offers not only a portrait of her daughter but also a critique of herself as a mother. of "the neyork times" it is called a seering inquiry into loss and melancholee meda decision on mortality and time. mi pleased to have our friend joe did-- joan didion back at this table. welcome. >> good to see you.

>> good to sow you. >> rose: tell me about this book and writing it and coming to grips with what you had to do. what was the intent. >> the intent to begin with was to write a book about the way we have-- the way we think about our children. >> right. >> and then every word i wrote got me further into thinking i wasn't getting what it was about. and that i was really missing it. and then finally it occurred to me what it was about. it was about-- because when we think about our children we think about getting older. and that's what it was about as well as our children. >> and so it was, it is a medication. >> it is a medication, on melancholy. >> it is a medicatio medication-- meditation more than it is anything else it is not a narrative it is the only book i have ever written, i think, that was not a narrative, and it was

entirely different way, i was writing a bock. >> and the hard toast write. >> it was the hardest to write because it was a new way for me of writing a book. >> and you almost gave the advance back. >> i just was going to give the advance back, yes. writings don't to that. >> i don't need your money. >> writers don't do that, and agents don't let them and fortunately my agent didn't let me. >> thank god for that. >> yes. >> your agent said go back and start writing. >> very swtly she said why not finish it first. and then we'll see. >> so what is the title mean, blue knights. >> you know those knights-- nights that suddenly late around summer soltice around the 20th of june, you start getting those deep blue nights. >> yeah. >> and they are very-- they're very meaningful to everybody who lives through them. and what happens then, is

that suddenly, suddenly you realize that summer is over and it's a melancholee time be. >> rose: and suddenly you realized what. >> suddenly i realized that that the blue nights, basically that the blue nights had applied to my own life as well as to-- as well as to an ago strakt. >> so when you looked at your own life, what did you conclude? >> i concluded that i am a really slow study and it had taken me that series of meditations to realize that i was getting older and that it came as a big surpriseo me, you know,i really don't

sit around thinking about that or hadn't. >> was it hardo write about her adoption? >> quintana's adopon, yes, it was. >> rose: because. >> it was hard to write about her adoption because i wasn't sure it was my story to tell. i thought it was her story to tell. she couldn't tell it, obviously because she was dead. but it was up to so else what else did you feel that you owd to her to say in this book? >> ianted to tell her-- i wanted to tell her that i didn't think i had given her enough credit when she was young for being as alert and smart as she was. that i thought i had been a kind of typical mother in that i had simp discounted everything she said as-- as

something a child said. and instead of actually listening. and i think a lot of us do that, obviously. with our children. >> rose: we treat them as children. >> we treat them as chilen. >> rose: rather than not some of treating them as adults but treating them as someone who has something say, some intelligence, a person who has experience i different but at the same time their curiosity may be very really. i was really starte started-- startled recently reading some things that quintana wrote when she was 10, 11, 12, very acute and things that i simply had never realized she was thinking. >> rose: so the lesson to all of us with respect to children is to listen and try to understand where they are, who they a. >> listen, uh-huh. >> rose: she had quick silver chang of mood.

>> yes, she did. >> rose: what did that say to you. >> wl, i tended to discount it as not, as a again not serious. because she was a child, right. but in fact, she was thinking allhe time and she was troubled by a lot of things that i didn't take seriously or didn't think. >> rose: so this book, blue nights is as much about motherhood as it is about one child's life. >> it's absolutely. what we don't foe-- i mean we don't know what th life of our children is we only know what it was like to be their mother or their father or their-- aunt or uncle. we don't-- if there is one thing i know about children it's that you can't ever know what they are thinking or doing.

>> rose: and we have, do we tend to evaluate them in terms of their behavior saying it is notormal for an adult so therefore -- >> therefore it's wrong. >> it's wrong. >> rose: rather than what's inside of them that made them be the way they are. >> right. >> rose: you also said an inresting thing that you can't have children without having a sense that you have failed them. do you think most parents feel that. >> don't you think so? if they don't think at some level that they have failed their children, they probably should think again. >> rose: what is interesting about that is that most children -- >> think they have faid their parents. >> rose: that's what they think. i mean how many-- how many kid does i know. >> rose: who think they have failed. >> rose: and even older. the thing most of all if they did well is say, you know, look, daddy, i did okay, us know, i met your expectations.

you wouldn't be disappointed by me and yet you are saying parents are saying the same thing. i did my best. >> i did my best. its he a weird thing. there is an enigma about having children. you can't-- in a sense you have promised, the pledge every parent makes is to protect that child. and yet the child, children are by nature unprotectable. >> rose: here is another idea that and i take some liberty about this. but you and john gregory dunn were so-- you couldn't be tighter, you couldn't have more passion for each other, you couldn't have had more mutually shared interest, correct. >> correct that must have got nen quintana away too. >> rose: exactly. >> i mean that-- that too i never, i never gave it

credit for being a hard way, a hard thing to live with. >> rose: i mean with perspective that is what some of the children of president reagan have said about nancy reagan an ronald reagan they so much, so strong a bond to each other. >> they were so shut out. both children said that, didn't they. >> rose: yeah. >> both ron and the sister. >> rose: because their parents had ts great love affair. >> uh-huh. >> rose: and thatas so overwhelming everything else. >> yeah. well, i uldn't say that john and i were like the reagans. >> rose: i -- mean but the idea is, you two were people who really -- >> we were close. >> rose: adored each other. >> we talked to each other at dinner, for example. >> rose: yes, indeed. >>nd people would notice. >> rose: absolutely. >> i would notice because you see people at dinner who are adults and they don't talk to each other. >> in restaurants. >> rose: of course. >> and you two were-- yeah.

>> rose: because you had such an interest. >> and it wasn't because we hadn't talked all day either. we were-- . >> rose: dow miss john every day. >> every day. >> rose: your magical thing. >> i mean, yes, of course i miss him every day. >> rose: but do you think about him every day, you know. >> yeah what is it you-- so part of what you do and write is also-- and almost in reflection of that too. >> uh-huh because a huge part of your life is gone. >> uh-huh. >> rose: in fact, two huge parts of your life. >> two huge parts vz so how do you survive? >> well, i don't know. what i mean is everybody survives by going from day-to-day . >> yeah. >> i don't have any secret way. >> rose: let me suggest one.

>> yeah you are enormously curious so you have this-- it may have changed, in a sense you may look more inner now than you used to. >> i think i do, yeah. i think i am more inner. or i mean i feel that i'm drifting inwards, sometimes. >> rose: asking more questions about how you -- >> how i behave. >> rose: yeah. and are you a tough critic of yourself. >> i tend to be, yeah. >> rose: dow, really? >> yeah. >> rose: you think that's good? >> i don't think-- i think it's just the way i am. >> rose: because you were a critic in life in a sense of the world around you. >> a know perfectly well that i am not responsible for a lot of the things that i go through life feeling guilty about. but, in fact, that doesn't

change it. >> rose: i'm here to tell you you don't believe that you are not responsible for all the things you might feel guilty about. >> yeah. >> rose: so wh do you live for? >> actually, someone asked me that this morning and had encouraged me that i live largely for certain small moments, moment os of great beauty and when i say great beauty it's quite often something that other people wouldn't consider fantastically beautiful like last night i was driving or being driven from philadelphia or to philadelphia from new york. and it was new jersey at sunset. nd it was really sublime.

and i didn't expect it to be, you know i have that all the time. i can look down at rocks and the way they are rearnged and say how beautiful is that. >> i know. >> when you finished this book, you said it was about-- a bit like it was written by another person. >> well, it was like it was written by another pern becausit was an entirely different style than hi ever used before. >> i have always written things that had strong narrative. this had no narrative. it was kind of like a dream, that i was wting. >> rose: a kind of stream of consciousness. >> it was a kind of stream of consciousness, yeah. 's very loose. you can see that it's not-- it's

not as tightly put together as most things i've written. >> rose: when yolook back over this life would you have done anything dramatically different? >> about my life. >> rose: yeah. would you-- you clearly would have been a writer. you wouldn't have been happy doing anything else. >> i would have been a writer. i would have been-- i was about to-- i have worked as hard as i probably could. i would have spent more time appreciating the small things. which would have spent more time, i would have spent more time making sure that quintana knew that i appreciated you can't say it better than that, my dear. and ou know a door you. joan didion, the previous book was called the year of imagine came thinking.

this one, blue ghts. thank you captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org