well come to the program tonight a conversation about national security with general martin dempsey chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. >> we have to be intraspective and learn what the last ten years of war war has down as a professional. we are doing that. our goals and objectives brie rn the same. the of a bega of a afghan leaded that. we conclude with a french film star she is a star of a new movie called "delicacy". the idea that even when you think that everything is over. yeah, when you lose any hope in the future because you just lose your house. >> right.there will always be se

good surprises and the hope is never that. >> martin dempsey, audrey totu. when we continue.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: general martindempsey n of the joint chiefs of zaf. zaf -- staff. he served as a princple military advisor he is a key voice on the u.s. mission in the middle east and the draw down in afghanistan. the effort has been set back after u.s. ormy sta or -- army t was accused of killing 16 afghan civilians. >> karzai has accuse the the

united states for not cooperating were the -- with the investigation. >> this is the end of the rope this form of activity. this behavior. cannot be tolerated. it is past, past, past the time. >> after the defence secretary and kabul president demanded that american troops be with withdrawn from villages and bases and transfer security to oafghan soldiers by next year. the taliban announced they are suspending negotiations. i'm pleasesse pleased to have gl dempsey here at this time. >> what do we know about the ofu awful thing that happened to these civilians in afghanistan. >> we know it's an awful thingan

investigation. we have to be aware of the fact that we have had 8 or 900,000 men or women ro rotate through afghanistan. they have served honorbly and they have maintained their sense of disminute. we want to keep it in perspective. >> all of the people there are trying to do their job as they see best and serve their country and work in the interest of other people. but it is something that hurts the united states effort in afghanistan. tell me how it hurts and what it does to the mission. >> well, look, that qur'an burning incident there was images of dead bodies being desecrated that have all converged in a particular point in time. and you know, we have to be intraspective and try to learn what the last ter ten years agof war have down to us as a

profession, and we are doing that. in terms of whether it's hurt the war effort, our goals and objectives remaif remain the sas they have been. i think the afghan leaders and the afghan people understand that. but they are outraged at a particular incidence is understandable. >> on the face of it if whatever negotiations was taken place suspends those that does in fact impede by definition does it not. >> let me separate the two. let me talk about president karzai's statement. we are not sure that is exactly what he said or what he meant. what i mean by that it's been muddled by other conversations that we have had about night operations. he has for sometime, told us how deeply he wants to put afghans in the lead in night operations. >> do you believe that was

collateral damage that kills afghans? >> i think it's a combination os collateral damage but his desire to demonstrate sovereignty. that is understandable instinct for a head of state. i think it should be clear that no one wants to put afghans in the lead more than we do. when they are ready to be in the lead. that is the conversations we have been having. there are places today that they are in the lead. we believe by next year the number of places they are leading will increase dramatically and there will be a milestone of sorts in 13. as we hit a trunch a transition of provinces. something will change in 13. we are part of an alliance and so our nato partners and contributing nations will have to be consulted. something will change in 13. we remain committed to delivering the objective of

nisbon. >> do you believe that they will be prepared to accept the responsibility by 2014? >> well i tell you what i dobelt recent visit there. i think that when given the opportunity to leave, and the unablers to do so, because there are some capability gaps. >> when given the opportunity te think they will. and importantly they perform better than i think they think they can. we are plowing now ground with afghanistan trying to build it's sense of nationhood and trying to link together these guess dee groups to have a sense of national identity. to answers your question i do think we can deliver the lisbon oniveobjectives by 2014.

an >> and prevent the taliban fromn afghanistan before the 9/11 ray1 attacks? >> yes. with the caveat that there will be always places in a country that size with a population that sky verse. verse -- diverse. where dollars ar there are areae challenges to the afghan security forces and to the central government. but what we seek to put in place is the ability of the afghan government when confronted bring that do deal with it. >> any conversation about afghanistan has to include pakistan that is why the president of afghan and pakistan reviewed. >> sure. >> is there any progress of getting the pakistani government to not be a staifnlgin staging r taliban that go across the border. >> they have been involved and they have domestic political

issues they are sorting through. the incident occurred on november 26th and here we are at march 16th. the best thing we have done is we have not conducted our engagement with them with a microphone. we have communicated with them directly and comub katee -- comd with them privately. wwe're back in close protection at the border. we have been in commun communicn and they have been asked to given time in their parliamentary process to have some internal discussions about what the new relationship miemenmightbe. i'm optimistic that we can reset the relationship in a way that meets boat goa both of our need. caif we find the of a afghan san is reduced to our satisfaction

and the answer is probably not. part of it is pakistani will and part of it is it's capability. that is a long stretch of what has traditionally been lawlessness. i believe they will to the best they can. but it may not be enough for us. >> >> do you believe they will do the best they can. >> i do. >> do you believe they will do the best they can to stop the group. >> >> use your words to do whatev . the aqani net work is a perfect example. it's intertwined. and as a relationship with the security service they believe. >> i think they are intermarried and it will be extraordinarily difficult. we are lea i am a levonworth

classmates. >> does it don convince you thae does intend to do everything he can. >> i will accept that description. everything he can. >> and what limits him from doing that. >> i think there are a couple of things that limit them. it's a nation of 170 million people with mind numbing economic challenges. they still believe that india poses their greatest threat. we have been pulling them closer to our view that terrorism is as much a threat to them as it is to us. you know, he has got internal issues he has to manage politically. you know, you have seen the same reports as i have about their internal zer zero domestic poli. i do think the general when we have our conversations that he will do what he can. which may never be what we like. >> he was very upset when he

found out that bin laden was on pakistani a territory and had bn killed by american forces. >> he was and i believe sincerely. that doesn't mean that there with others in the country that were winning. but from my personal understanding i have never found any evidence of that. it's hard to believe. >> it's hard to believe that he didn't know. it's hard to believe that somebody didn't know. with that said we never found out. and with people like you they said they did not know. >> that is correct. do you believe that pakistani is stable. i do believe they are stable. migration of various terrorist groups. and again i think their economic forecast is what probably gives me the greatest cause for concern. >> it's dire? >> it is dire. certainly from my understanding

of the term "dire i" it's a faiy ziedire economic condition. and that ex-as baits th exacerbm they have with an extraordinarily large population that is growing. and religious extremist in parts of the country. if you thread that together it does make for a cha challenging future. >> it has been reported that the man accused of this is back on american territory and being held here. >> i cannot confirm that as of yet. i can tell you he has been removed. it's been reported that he has been removed from afghanistan. >> through kuwait. >> through kuwait and inbound to the united states where he will be placed in pretrial confinement. >> he has a right to a speedy trial. do you expect that will take place as soon as possible and as soon as you can allow it to happen. as long as he gets due process.

>> think absolutely. i.>> it's in the interest to coe to some kind of. >> it is in the the it's in all of our interest that he gets the speedy trial. it's also that we have to have the right amount of evidence. and the accumulation of evidence in a place like afghanistan is challenging. >> what is our mission now? >> our mission as articulated in the lisbon o objectives as articulated by nato is to ensure that as you described that afghanistan is no longer a safe haven for terror operations in the future. we also want to leave afghanistan with a government that is capable of providing of it's own security. and that over time that security can lead to economic development. >> do we know with omar is? >> we do not know. >> i do not know where he is.mit

know, but i don't know. >> why is that? >> well if mula omar has any sense and one may expect hes to given the fact that he has been elusive. he has seen what has happened to a significant number of his former peers. >> we also zon don't know with n laden's colleagues are either. >> no. make no mistake mistake about ie al-qaeda core has been dramatically reduced. >> your assessment of the struggle against terrorism is what? >> well we always refer to al qaeda and associated movements. i think it's important to note that although al qaeda's stock in the world of extremism has been affected, has wained.

>> al qaeda's stock has wr wain. in places like yemen and the horn of africa and places like somolia we think those organizations have an ability because it's the 21st century and they can network. have the ability to pass goals and information and objectives and money and ideology and people. >> iran you expect they will act like a rational government. what i said, and that drew a lot of attention. i said they were a rational state actor. i also said that don't mean they are going to act reasonable. the difference between rational and reasonable is an important point here. >> you choose words carefully. i choose words very carefully. rational means what to you. >> rational means there is an of

-- evident pa pattern of behavi. first and foremost it expresses their intention to remain in power and preserve the regime. and based on that there are some things that they know they will respond to. that is a rational act. >> would you have said the same thing about saddam hussein? >> i think so. >> ze acze>> did he act rationa. there was more of a pattern of rationality. this is not to condone their behavior. or what they do to their people. >> that is right. >> the fact is saddam hussein had a wrapped judgment as to what the united states would do in a gross misjudgment. >> see i agree were that. do you think the ira iranians ae capable of making a gross misjudgement of what the united states and the israelis may do.

>> >> i do.they could get it wrongd suffer the contes connecticut . >> they could get it wrong and suffer the conhe i consequences. >> we are in constant contact with our israeli counterparts. and on monday i will be meeting with my counterpart for the third time and i have been a chairman for six months. >> for the third time and you have been a chairman for six months. >> we are in contact constantly. i would describe our present position, that is what you asked me. this way. we don't disagree in terms of intent we disagree in terms of time. >> help me with intent. >> we don't disagree with determines otermsof intent.

we are both determined to prevent iran from nuclear westminster. >> all options are on the table. it's a matter of time and our current path which is building an economic coalition and dip low matidiplomatic fresh pressue can do that. >> whoa tim what time frame is . >> i wouldn't put a edge on that. >> some people say six months. it's 2012. >> it's time not necessarily measured in months or years, but in terms of our aiivelt and abid capability to see if they cross any thresholds. you can also say an attack may have terrible consequences but not just for the iranianss what

would be the fall out of an attack. >> it would depend on theiraniak an. >> and our preparation.and if te the straits. >> wouldn't they have to try something. >> again, if they are rational they will be very calculating on their response. and you know we have got -- we have run some excursions on possible iranian reaction but i won't expose them on your show. >> i respect that. there is also this with respect to the iranians are they giving advice to the sirians? >> i don't have any particular reason nor intelligence to assess they are giving them advice but they are supporting them. >> with arms and with. >> sure and they are shipping arms. so they are certainly support being the h hassad regime and i

think they would be expected to do so. >> what is the difference and you have expressed this before, between some kind of military action against syria, in contrast to military action against libya? >> well a number of things, as we have continued toe to study . we stay on top of emerging issues, the evolving situation on the ground. but just in terms of geography, and the size of the kun countryd the demographics of the country and the military capabilities of country vastly different challenges and a lack of a coherent opposition. although we have tried to find away to engage with some kind of coherent opposition. >> you have tried to find a coherent opposition meaning a opposition that is cooperating

and coordinating. >> exactly so. so there is something which to build and something to spormt -- support with an idea of 6 a if he -- potential out come. there is 100 sub groups that are in syria that are competing and trying to coalesce but they haven't been able to do so to this point. >> why not? >> it's a good question. i would have to aske study a bie about the syrian history. there are reasons and it always behooves us to understand these issues before we try to solve them. but at this point, secretary clinton met with the syrian national council in trip lee. we have taken stems t steps to t the coalition. >> one you don't have the action

and you don't have the arab league action, do you? >> the arab league has called for him to step aside. but has not asked for. >> but has not asked for anyint. or air cover or anything else. those were essential gra stems s and if you looked at rules of engagement that would be the essential steps. some covere coordination among e people that you tried to help. >> the united states can always act in it's own self-defence and for it's own vital interest should those be declared this this case. it's also very clear to pr prode a useful and enduring out come, it's always better to do that as part of a coalition. hillhistory has taught us that. >> at what point do you say that ihistory has shown us the city d

is not there. these are atrocities that we are trying to cope. >> that could happen. and my personal responsibility is to be prepared to provide the president of the united states and the secretary of defense and the national security council to provide options for any numbers of contingencies. we have as you have heard me testify probably, we have been working on estimates of the situation intelligence estimates. all of the things that would be necessary in order to take planning to the next level. we have not yet planned, in detail, any particular military option in syria. >> while i'm in the region, egypt. theft had parliamentary plex. elections. moderate islamist and did well in the elections and they had some 50% of the vote in

combination. >> it doesn't worry me until i see how they distribute power. i have been to egypt and i have been in contact with my counterpart. and we are eager. we were holding back on our foreign military fund for them because of the issue of the non-government organizations. we have moved beyond that. we are starting to now restore what has been a long standing traditional military relationship. on the military side i do think they are very important player in the future of the region. >> they have the large oveest an the region. they become important if syria does tumble. if syria tum democrat tumbles ya sunni majority in the fwooft. government and standing off against the shi'a world. >> in iran and in iraq.

>> that is right. it's not clear to me that iraq -- in fact it is clear to me as i sit here today that iraq stoss not want to be surro surrogate. >> when you have an arc, an arc of instability is a good way to put it. egypt becomes an important player in there. it's important to continue to build a relationship with the emerging egypt. with that said, as we watch them disstridistribute power i thinkl get insights as to what they intend to be in the future. and they have not done that yet. >> with respect to syria. are things getting worse on the ground? is the government getting stronger? >> i wouldn't describe the government getting stronger. i would say that the government has deliberately decided to escalate the amount of violence

they are willing to impose against their own people. they have used increasingly larger westminster. weapons. syria is 70% sunni. that is part of the population ithat is being oppressed by the central government. the central government may for a period of time oppress them, supress them, i don't think that 70% majority will ever again be content to be part of some sense of syrian nation. i think that what hasad has down guarantees his eventional demise. >> the exec execs peck exec exer four months. >> there is an iraq that

protects the regime. i think his actions have guaranteed his down fall. >> in bahrain you have a different situation. have you a majority of shi'a that are not in power. >> that is right. >> can that continue? >> in i don't know. isn't that the mystery of the arab spring. the genie is out of the bottle. to the extent of the central government with who we are closely alied in bahrain. to the ex-tonigh extent they can the face of the demand this doesn't have to necessarily go the way of syria. >> on balance it's a good thing. on balance and in the long term. but i think we have all being ak knowledged in the near term it will be destabilizing. citdestabilizing. destablstabilizing.

>> as long as it's a competition of ideas. the conversation i had inside of egypt. the kind of competition they should be fostering is a competition of ideas not a competition for power. >> have we been doing well in the competition of ideas? in that region? >> i think we have been doing better than we think. i think that publicly, i mean, look i have lived in that part of the world for 7 years or so on and off. and you know what is said publicly is always vastly different than what is said in the privacy of a session of friends. and i think that we are still admired, but i think that that part of the world you know in some ways is critical of what we have done because it's been fee destabilizing.

>> you mean the iraqi war andot. >> sure. >> i think they are unseptember- unsettled and we are an easy target for their feelings of victimzation. we done well among the intraspective. >> you think it would be an openness to the ideas and the openness to the idea of economic development which may play a positive role. >> sure. when you look at where they like to travel and where they like to engage and where their military has come to learn about being a professional force, they come here. at any given time for example we have 3 to 500 officers from the egyptian military. ca>> can i move to china. >> we are rebalancing our effort into the pacific. and we never left the pacific. this is not a reemergence.

>> there is no resetting of the. this is about us after ten years of being consumed in the middle east. and i say consumed it's not resource h it's intellectual bad with. what you are sensing from us is a desire, more than a cit a desn intention of rebalancing ourselves so we can be mindful of the shifts in demographics and economics and military power which are shifting t to the eas. this will emerge over time. this is not a light switch. we are interested in europe now and this is more about how to rebalance ourselves and the development of leaders and our forced presence and our engagement. >> is it redefining the nature of power in terms of relationship at all? >> it will think.

any time we touch something we affect it's out come. we are mindful of that. as we rebalance we have to both assure our traditional allies. we have to be alert for opportunity for new and emerging allies and we have to develop a relationship with china. >> do we have a strong relationship with china. we have a relationship that both sides are content. and we have a commitment reinforced by a visit by the chinese vice president here to washington. we have what i would describe a modest relationship right now. and it varies by service. the navy and air force and ma reasons havmarines have their on particular contacts. >> do we assume that they will be the largest military power at

sometime? >> we have not projected that they will do that. and the reasonable is, china appears to be this monolithic homogenius kind of world actor. and they are anything but that. as i'm sure you well know, internal to china they have enormous economic challenges and enormous challenges and some of those ea eternal zero mess -- dc chamchallenges they have to havn 8% growth rate to maintain the standard of living. >> and if they have projected it that is about where it will be in 2013. >> i believe china's princple military objectives is to sustain the growth of their economy. the military objective is to

sustain military growth. >> we have found them to be interested in freedom of nav gaition. and they have stated they don't havefullhave any expansionary tr strategy is very well articulated and i have clear as is ours. to this point we have been able to work with them and not by the way not bilaterally and we have been working with regional partners. this is why we need to rebalance ourselves. in terms of our intellectual band zlwith into the pacific. we have to rethink our way through i to ensure we have comn ground. >> when you think of warfare does it alarm you? >> it does. it alarms me on a couple of front and it alarms me because i know what we can do.

and we can't believe we are the only ones in the world with the capcapability and intellect to d out what is possible in cyber. and it's clear whether you believe in moore's law or some other law, it's clear that the information technology is growing exponentially and we are becoming incredibly dependant upon it. most of our infrastructure is unabled by the internet. and i mean look even in the financial markets in new york the al g al go algorithmic trad. as a nation we have become extraordinarily te city dependae net. and if we are that dependant on

that capability i'm alarmed at our ain't t ability to defend i. >> you are surprised that an english professor became the joint chief. >> i'm alarmed that i became the joint chief. >> i found it to be extraordinary preparation for me. >> i don't know if you read mr. greenburg's book. i was rereading through the moment and what an enormous change it made in the way we interacted with theism pacthe impactsthe impactr lives. it was a very pe persuasive boo. what is it about our moment in history that would be that

swerve? and by the way it could be something in cyber. and so the study of lit tur whic --literature and it's the f how people lived. country to history. as peter finley dunn said. i think the study of li literate has helped me approach the complex problems that we are facing. thank you, sir. >> thank you. ♪ audrey is here and in 2001 her fi her performance capd audiences worldwide. she plays a widow who rediscovers love. here is the trailer for "delicacy" ♪ i will be a writer you can se the many light ♪ ♪ the world average around me ♪ ♪ and keep you in my heart

♪ ♪ i'm lease pleased to havy

toutu back. than>> thank you. your english is better than my french. >> i'm not positive of that. >> >> this seems like a story ofth. >> the magic of life too. >> tell me what "delicacy" means to you. what the story is about. >> for me it's the idea that even when you think that everything is over. >> yeah rchlt. >> when you lose any hope in the future because you lose your

house. >> right.there is always be somd surprises and you know, the hope is never dead. >> so tell me who your character is. >> well i think natalie is a very strong woman and she got this terrible. she lost her husband while he was jogging. yes. so she becomes a very young widow. >> she is young and success and an executive and she is pawrl pl and she has a perfect life. >> she is suddenly broken and she has to keep living. >> and threaten then a man comr life that is not at all what she expected him to be. >> nobody would expect that this man would be somebody important for her. >> how did it hatch? -- hatch. -

happen. >> it's the magic of meeting. nothing is written. >> have you found yourself in love with someone that totally surprised you that you thought "was not your type". >> each time. several times. >> really? >> yeah, i think if you expect, a teenager dream to have the major prince charming. >> the beautiful and smart andf. an>> and kind an attentive. >> what everyone says to me. the one thing they are looking for in a partner or a spouse or wife is somebody who makes them laugh. the idea to laugh seems to be central to relaiptio relationsht have something special about them and it's true in this one

too. >> because it's the symbol of true com come common spirit. >> when she first meets him is sheedshe immediately attracted r does he grow on her. grow on her. she can't be in the mind to fall in love. >> what is also interesting about this is the author is one of the co-directors. yes. he co-directed the movie with his brother but he is the writer of the novel. >> and they work together. >> yes. >> how was that for you working with the person that wrote the thofnovel that knows what he intended and had a vision in his eye or in his mind. >> very helpful. >> did you go to him and ask about natalie. >> yes of course sometimes. >> what did he say about her?vu?

>> he was saying i was doing right. [laughter] >> yes that she was strong andat to keep a lightness even if she is in a very difficult situation. >> i'm going to look at the kissing scene. that is the only see scene i wil look at. >> tell me about the scene. he is doing something unexpected. >> roll the tape, here it is. >> okay. bonjour. [speaking french] [>> you are smiling.

>> yes, i love the face. and in th>> and in the eyes. we made him a joke. he thought i wouldn't kiss him in that take. he thought it was a rehearsal. >> so during the rehearsal you wouldn't kiss him. no i wronl wouldn't kiss him dug

the rehearsal. and he was truly surprised. he was chosen because he was a comedian actor. >> it was the first time he had the opportunity to do such a poetic and sensitive character. hseymour famehe is more famous e obvious parts and he has a huge personality, he is very, very funny. he is very well known in france. here is what is interesting about you. on the one hand your mother named you after aubrey hepburn. meaning movies were part of her context. second you have always taken this idea that movies to be an actress is not your life. your life is failing. your life is reading. your life is doing everything else. it's only one part of who you are? >> yes. >> talk about that. >> well it's one part of my life

and it's an important, important part. but it's all of the center of interests and i never felt i don't know why this thing to give all of my life to this job. >> >> do you like the celebritypar? >> well, no, i'm getting used to it. >> used to it. >> so it's better than before. it's not something i'm really interested in. i really feel something superficial. >> we are going to look at at montage of your life. a series of if i a films. everyone it is a has talked about and you identified with nalnatalie are you okay with th? >> i'm okay with that. i think movies are a particular object.

>> what happened why is it so resonating? >> i have no idea. that is so amazing that ten years after that i meet some people that adored this moved an --movie and they were maybe e years old when it comes out. which was only a few years ago. it's something -- this movie is still existing. >> it's in the consciousness. it's still existing today. >> she was a cit a defining char for some reason. you captured with someone that everybody connected with. she connected with the personality. >> i think because the audience connects with this character. >> this is the montage i mentioned, rotate. [speaking french] [speaking[

[through for bringing me here ad

letting him choose you sir roberts. [speaking french.

>> is the observation perches of acting fun for you. >> it's the experience of actin i like concentrating on the part and sharing the creation with a director and sharing with the other actors. >> you had a collaboration in two films ant make sure i'm pronouncing that right jean pierre bonn nai. is that close. perfect. >> that was a good collaboration for you. >> that what a goodcollaboratio. >> what makes a good collaboration? >> because we are both completely obsessed by details and pe perfection. and so we were on the same road for his movies. i liked how he wanted everything to be perfect and everything is millimetres by millimetres and it's away, and i like to ininclude that in my work when i used to work with him. >> there is also i mean are they two of your favorite films "emily" and "long engagement" if

you look at all of those films do you have favorites? >> it's difficult because you made very good choices. >> >> of course we did.so it's ver. and so it's not because i don't want to upset somebody. it's very give. it's a very special for me and in my heart. >> he is wonderful. >> he is very special to me. why is he special to you? >> because i had such an amazing experience. when i went to this shooting i didn't know a word of english. >> yes. and he was so confident and he made me act and he, yes, he helped me a lot. and he is so bright.

and sensitive and he is wonderful. have you seen "the artist". >> yes. >> did you like it? >> i liked it very much. >> is all of france proud of this film. >> they shoul i hope so. they shouldñi be. you know in france they like to fight our idols. >> i see put them down and put them on a pedestal and take them double. >> i'm very proud and happy for them. >> who do you want to see as the next president of france. i will no>> i will not answers. >> you will not answers this question. does which party represents your values more? >> i have no idea. i don't like politics. >> you do have an idea. tell me your ambition before we

go. what is it that you want to be and do and what kinds of things would make you happiest? what kinds of film roles, how do you find a course that is most statsatisfying. >> i just did a movie b directed by claude miller. and it was a very special experience and a very special spot. the first time the director offered me such a dark and dangerous and -- i don't know -- woman. >> and you liked it? >> and i really like it. and i think this is for me another step in my area. >> evolution of your career. >> personally i would love to keep discovering other things.

and i would like to finish some projects that i had in my head. >> what impresses you most about you is the joy of discovery that you had. this kilometres-per-hour o curi. >> that is the reason to live. >> to learn and engage and explore. >> and to always find some surprise, you know it's a question of meetings. when you want a new painting and you make. it is something. it's the same thing for movies or books or countries. it's the same thing for natalie kerr too your character. yes. a surprise. >> thank you for coming back. >> thank you for inviting me. >> it's always good to see you. >> thank you for joining us.see. ♪

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