from the suffering they've been under in certain deployments they've come back strong sore one of the things we've also seen, charlie, is a tremendous amount of resilience in the force. but it is, it's a tough road and it's a small number of people who have been carrying this burden. >> rose: we turn a consideration of china's economic future with david novak, john mack, zhang xin and ian bremmer. >> in 1993, 1992 i went to china

for the first time and i was so blown away by it and immediately morgan stanley started investing in the region. a year later, two years later, i went to india and i said to myself thank god i came to china first because if i had gone to india i would have seen english as a language, rule of law, and more democracy than i've ever seen anywhere else. now in the last 20 years if you look at the two countries, who's really made the move? the move has been china. >> rose: we conclude with dr. mark hyman author of the blood sugar solution. >> the problem is doctors graduate medical school knowing more about how to treat malaria than obesity and obesity-related problems. we don't know how to diagnosis this problem. that means 90% of people with this condition don't know they have it. >> rose: battlefield stress, china's economic future and blood sugar solutions when we continue.

>> rose: tonight we begin with a look at the growing strain on american men and captioning sponsored by rose communications win serving around the world. last week marked a moment of reckoning for forces in afghanistan when staff sergeant robert bales was accused of killing 16 civilians in kandahar. he joined the army in 2001, shortly after the september 11 attacks. he has since been deployed four times, serving three tours in iraq and most recently no-fly zone n afghanistan. the killings drew attention to the increasing physical and psychological stress put on american soldiers as the united states marks its tenth year in afghanistan. joining me from st. louis is eric greitens, he is a former navy seal who has served both in iraq and afghanistan. with me in new york, paul rieckhoff, he's served as an army first lieutenant in iraq and is the founder of "iraq and afghanistan veterans of

american." i am pleased to have him on this program. and we want to make this very important point. there is no-- in this conversation-- understanding or link to what sergeant bales may have done or what may have caused them to do what he has been accused of. this is a conversation about the strain on american men and women fighting around the globe and what it is that may be important to understand about that strain from two people who understand the military and who have proud served and know so many people have that served with them who have not had any kind of circumstances of then heroic action. so i'm pleased to have a conversation that is not but is connected to stresses that may very well go with the number of tours in battle. so i begin with eric greitens in st. louis. tell me how you assess this question of strain on american forces not withstanding the particular cases and the particular circumstances of

sergeant bales. >> well, charlie, no question there's been major strain on american forces over the course of the past ten years. it's strain because of multiple combat deployments and not just on those forces but also on their families. when you think about the fact that over the course of the past ten years it's less than 1% of all americans have serveed in iraq and afghanistan you recognize that it's a very small percentage of the population that's carrying a big burden for the entire country. >> rose: and what is the toll on them, those brave men and women serving time after time, tour after tour? >> it's unprecedented, charlie. we've never had such a small group of people do so much for so long. it's been ten years but it's only been 2.4 million people. so it's a very small segment. an unprecedented small segment. compare that to 12% during world war ii. vietnam when we had a draft and everyone had a personal connection. so the same group of people continue to deploy over and over

again. more than half a million have been deployed more than once. over 100,000 hav been deployed three times or more. so it's a churn that's gone on and that has a tremendous impact on their emotional well-being, their psychological well-being, their spiritual well-being. and i don't think we'll fully appreciate the long-term effects and the costs for many decades. but they will be substantial. i think it's important to note, as you did, they we don't jump to stereotypes. i think it was very important that you led off this segment that we don't blanket all of our troops because of this rogue behavior, this murderous rampage of one guy who doesn't represent the courage and determination and fortitude of so many people who have served honorably. this is a terrible moment but it's an isolated incident and not representative of so many millions of men and women who have done so much for so long. so we want people to push back against those preconceived stereotypes. even here in new york, the "new york daily news" had a headline last week that said "psycho sergeant." we've got to take a deep breath here and understand the issues and unpack them because now we don't know what caused this but

if it starts a larger conversation about the strains on our military that's a good thing. it's overdue. >> rose: the army is clearly aware of this and the military is clearly aware of this. are they taking steps already in the sense to deal with the issue of being overstretched in terms of commitments overseas? >> they are and i think the drawdown in iraq will lessen the burden. but we're still facing ten years of war. i think specifically around some of the issues that have been brought up. traumatic brain injury, care and understanding and treatment has come a long way. but mental health screenings still have a long way to go. i.a.b.a. pushed hard in 2009 and 2010 for the defense authorization bill to cover mandatory mental health screenings before and after deployments. we only had 100% completion last year. so there's still holes and gaps and it comes down to small-unit commanders to make sure they understand their people and are raising the flag if necessary. >> rose: without going to the

specific cases of motivation and psychology that we cannot understand at this point, what do you notice about his case that jumped out to you? >> well, when i look at a case like that, charlie, i compare it to the cases of all of the veterans who i know who i served with who were overseas when their kids were diagnosed with down syndrome, who were overseas when their houses were broken into, who were overseas when their mortgage turned upside down. one of the things that you recognize that's very similar about this case is just when service members deploy, family life goes on and their community life goes on. and those stresses and those strains are from being separated can affect anybody when they're overseas. and, again, what we don't know about what's happened in this specific case, it's certainly case that in all of these deployments people have a family life that continues while they're serving their country overseas. >> rose: what have we noticed between brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder?

>> they affect hundreds of thousands of folks. as many as 20% of troops coming home may have a trau mat i can brain injury or post-traumatic stress disorder. we know it's a relatively new injury especially with roadside bombs that cause concussive blasts that can ring your bell and have what we call an invisible injury that may not reveal itself until years later. a guy on our staff, nicole gahn, was a medic in the 82nd airborne great guy, highly motivated. aim home with a brain injury and didn't know it until he had been home for months and started to have challenges with his vision and memory. so we do know that the screening is still not adequate. the v.a. did not start screening for traumatic brain injury until a number of years into the war and we're still unpacking. a lot of the best research has come from car crashes and football and we know one thing: even if someone has a traumatic brain injury it doesn't necessarily cause you to have a pre-meditated murderous rampage and that's some of the connections that were made early that we need to urge people to have caution about. >> rose: eric, what would you add to that? >> one of the things i'd say, charlie, we just did a study

with washington university on the mission continues fellows. these our fell los, veterans who came back and we put into a program at the mission continues where they started to serve again. over 60% of them in this program had post-traumatic stress disorder. over 50% had traumatic brain injury. i think the encouraging news is that through the fellowship program, as they got reintegrated into their community, as they were supported by mentors, as community groups came around them to support them, we found that by the end of a six-month fellowship, 86% of them were on their way to full-time employment, full-time education and they had an ongoing role as citizen leaders in the community. so the point is that, yes, traumatic brain injury is real, post-traumatic stress disorder is real. we have to understand it and we also have to recognize that these are challenges which can be overcome and which thousands of veterans today are in the process of overcoming with the support of organizations here at home. >> rose: do you believe that this massacre that took place in afghanistan will serve as a

catalyst for change? >> i hope so. it should be a wakeup call for all americans to just better understand our community. i think... eric touched on it earlier. less than one half of one percent of the american population has served so most folks don't know us and i think that causes rushes to stereotype it causes some paralysis around what to do but we want to educate people about the issues facing our community and give them onramps in ways to help and we frame in the four basic categories of what folks need coming hope: health care, education, employment, and community. and the last one is sometimes the most important. because of that isolation, they need to be around other veterans they need to be around other family members who know what where they're coming from but they need to come home to supportive civilian communities who can action against those issues. unemployment is a huge challenge facing our members. we see about a 17% unemployment rate. that should be acceptable for everyone and we want folks to think about these veterans not just as charity cases but an investment. we can build a new greatest generation who can meet us in business and help turn around

our economy but they need opportunities and support. >> rose: so, eric, what about people who are on the front lines of the battle who may very well-being feeling certain kinds of pressures and may be ready to erupt in one way or the other. is there a monitoring process? >> we've come a long way in that regard, charlie. and i think every small unit commander who served in iraq or afghanistan would tell you that they want people who are on their team to talk with the people around them, share whatever is ailing them, whether it's a physical challenge, emotional challenge, something happening at home, if it's a college cal challenge. as a small unit commander in the field, you're responsible for the physical, emotional, psychological fitness of everybody who's on your unit and i think we've come a long way recognizing that warriors do face strain. they do face hardship and what we have to do as a community of warriors is come together, pull together, support each other through that so we can all do our mission with honor on the battlefield. >> rose: regardless... again,

apart from this particular incident, we've had a series of other incidents over there having to do with the burning of the koran and other kinds of things like that. is that a failure of understanding cull sdmur what is it a failure of? >> i think it's a failure of leadership and accountability at the individual level. one thing we understand in the military is every individual is responsible for their actions and now more than nuclear non-proliferation this kind of combat environment your behavior is reflective of over 300 million americans. that's what i told my soldiers when we deployed to iraq and soldiers understand that. so the cultural understanding has come a long way. i think small unit commanders have gotten a better understanding of the middle east. we have a long way to go but it comes down to individual accountability and leadership command climate. there is a system of checks and balances in place here and if this guy snuck out in the middle of the night and went on this rampage, there were probably

while we're taking responsibility for what happens recognize we're representing the values of day with honor and it's a tremendous blow to them.

labor costs threatened its edge. are also challenges for companies doing business there joining me now, four distinguished guests, david novak has brands that have thrived in china. john mack is the former c.e.o. of morgan stanley, one of the first global investment banks to establish a presence in china. zhang xin is the c.e.o. of soho china, one of the country's largest real estate developers. ian brepl smer the of eurasian group. i am pleased to have them all here to talk about china, the plit currents and i begin with you. tell me how you think chinese economy looks over the next

several years. what are the challenges? >> i think 2011 we had one of the most challenging years. in the 17 years i have become... i've been doing i have never seen credit so tight. banks are not lending because, you know, china was fighting against inflation so the way to do it is to tighten the credit. as a developer, of course, even worse, residential developers, you cannot sell home. for those who have one home, you can simply not buy a second home no matter what your need. so that was how the chinese government was so strict in controlling the inflation. but by the end of last year inflation is pretty much under control. i think this year we're looking ahead. i would be surprised if the credit is not going to be eased because chinese government needs

to target... they have a target 7.5% g.d.p.. to reach that, when the european market seems to be down, exports are down, they have to somehow boost domestic consumption and growth. >> rose: change their economic model. >> rose: change the model. >> from an exporting economy to a domestic demand economy. those numbers for the 7.2% or 7.4% many people consider conservative. they think they might maintain an eight-point plus g.d.p. growth rate. >> that i don't know. i do know one thing is whether it's 7.5% or 8.2% they need to relax the credit. when there's no money in the system companies cannot borrow. small companies cannot borrow. so many have to be in the system in order for the economy to continue to grow. >> rose: john? >> well, i think she's right on target. i do think the government has opened up on reserves. they've reduced the reserves on some of the banks which will put

money into the system. i was just there three weeks ago and i came back very optimistic. as i talked to government officials and central bank and leaders in business, even though there are challenges without question there's been a clamp on real estate the this idea of having two homes and speculating has been discouraged to say the least. >> rose: was it because they were fearful of a property bubble? >> we got in trouble in the real estate market in this company and i think it was a conservative thing to do and i think they did the right thing. do i think they will keep it on forever? no. but they're paying attention. inflation is a big issue. speculation is a big issue and they're worried about it and job creation is a bigger issue and they're very worried about it. to do that, you have to manage the economy i think the way they've done it. i give them very high marks. they're not always right but

they can change their mind and they do it very quickly and i think at the end of the day is they reach out to bring more business into china and to export more business, not products business. i think chinese would like very much to have a much better relationship? the business community in the united states and actually have some of their manufacturing capability in the united states and be more of a global player there the united states. i'm really optimistic. charlie, i came back-- and you may tell me i'm wrong-- i came back and started buying a-shares. i can't do that directly as a u.s. citizen but through a qualified investment account i can invest in china in these smaller companies. and that i believe's where the real growth is. >> rose: david, the story of young brands is a remarkable story there. what did you know that other people didn't know? what did you do to get this grounding there that's been so successful for you? >> well, we've been in china for

25 years and we've taken a very patient approach to it. i think the biggest shrink we've had in china is the local management team that understood the chinese culture, how the do business there. i think most international business when you have expats at the helm you don't do that well. but we've had a great chinese leader there who's built a phenomenal team and we've localized our brands quite well. so if you go into k.f.c. for breakfast we'll have soybean milk, fried dough. we have a very diverse menu, multiple proteins. we're open 24/7. if you go into pizza hut we change out our menu every six months 25% of our menu but we have a very localized menu and we're very relevant to the chinese customer because i think we have people that understand how the make it happen there. and that's been the big key. >> rose: you do a lot of marketing? >> yes. but i think our biggest strength is our operations capability. 90% of our restaurant general

managers have at least a college education. we have 50% of our team members are university students and the passion these kids have for business and learning is just absolutely unparalleled. anywhere i go in the world and i think when you have that operational excellence as your bedrock you're able to grow very rapidly we opened up 656 restaurants last year, we hope to do at least 600 this year. >> rose: it is your growth market? >> it is. i can go on and on. >> rose: there's this question and many people have talked about this and john has been part of this... chinese hear this from americans all the time. a, it's not a level playing field, that's one of the things they here and from chinese businesss you hear it's not fair in the competition between private and state companies. >> well, i think we've had a level playing field. >> rose: me, too. >> i think... you know everybody's concerned about in china is they want jobs and one of the things we're creating with all the restaurants we ear opening up is we're creating

about 50,000 jobs a year. so we don't have intellectual properties to speak of other than the colonel's 11 herbs and spices so we're not in a segment of the business that is of high concern with the government. so our brands are beacons of success in four, five, and six cities. so when we go into these new cities and we're almost saying the cities arrive... >> it is the growth outside of beijing and shanghai that we don't know as well where they have... 30 million? how many? it's a huge population. >> 20 million. >> there's going to be huge growth. the government's also developing 20 new clusters of cities that will be coming in the next ten years. the expansion, the opportunity to go into these new cities that are of a million plus, plus also what's going on with railway stations and we had a k.f.c. down stairs not visible doing about $40,000 u.s.a. week and upstairs

in the high traffic area and we're delivering food up there with the concept called k.f.c. select and we're doing $60,000. so we have where we have one restaurant manager, 100 employees we have about a $5.2 million business in that one train station. >> rose: so when you look at state capitalism can it maintain the advantages that it has had in this economic system? >> well, the answer, historically, for any country is no because it takes advantage of cheap stuff that they run out of. it's an inefficient system. argentina, state capital system, cheap land, ran out of cheap land, the country fell apart. venezuela, cheap oil, ran out of cheap oil, the country fell apart. china, cheap labor. now, the great thing about china is the government officials in china know very well that they need to fundamentally transform their economic system in order to continue to succeed over time. that's great. they've diagnosed the problem. that doesn't mean they can necessarily actually implement. when i think about china we've

for 34 years they've had on average 10% plus state-directed growth. they've got a big car with a very, very powerful engine going really fast down a straight road and the problem is coming up on the road there's a big curve. but we've never seen steering from china, right? and we don't know if they're going to be successful. i happen to think that yum brands-- i'm not shilling for these guys-- i think they've done one of the most fantastic jobs of any u.s. firm in terms of building a u.s. brand across china. for many of the reasons david mentioned. but i also think they've taken a massive bet, a massive long-term bet on a country that has by far greater volatility in its outcomes than any other major economy in the world and that's a point we have to get our arms around. >> rose: do you agree? >> i think i would agree to a certain degree. not all.

but... i think if you look at china for the last 30 years all the way until 2009 it was pretty clear developing is market economy. from the state-owned, from from the planning economy moving towards a market economy. very steady. but what happened is in 2009 when the financial crisis happened, when china suddenly realized they needed to... the government needed to have a quick stimulus package they went down to the path of channeling all that money, ten trillion, to state-owned companies. that fundamentally changed. so from 2009 to now state owned companies become so much more powerful state capitalism has become so much more powerful and private sector has been suppressed. so that has given people... confused people.

people begin to think are we going ahead with market development or are we going back? >> rose: talk to me about the people that you know well and how they see china's future, the people you brought here to this program that we spoke about. >> well, look, again, some of those individuals are with some of the government-owned companies. some are not. but by and large to a person they're very positive. now, you can see they're drinking the kool-aid, but i think they're a lot smarter than just drinking the kool-aid. what they're trying to understand is-- and, again, it gets to what dave said earlier, a level playing field. they want a chance to develop businesses here in the u.s. one of the large companies said to me... i tried to make an offer for one of your companies and i didn't get anyone to respond. they talked about california and how he had the highest bid but he didn't buy the company, chevron bought ate year later at a lower price.

i think they're optimistic. i think they believe-- and i believe this, charlie-- i have a lot of faith in the leadership of that country. are there outliers from time to time? the answer is yes. but they really do their home work. they try to understand what they need to do to change. if it's creating jobs, making sure inflation doesn't take off. and eventually as yum brands have done other companies are going to figure it out to do business in china. what yum brands has done-- and david hit the point-- i got a local manager, a local leader. i think too many non-chinese companies come in and they bring the guy out of the right school but he didn't come out of china, he came out of somewhere in the u.s. or europe. so i think american companies and other companies going into china have to figure out, they have to be local. that's not your question. your question is how do they feel. the leadership that i talked to... >> rose: are they worried about any political change.

are they worried about the sustainability of the kind of growth they've had? >> they're worried about creating jobs. that's what they're worried about. >> rose: or losing jobs. >> or losing jobs. and they talk about it. they talk about wages in china going up. the competitive edge they've had is not where it was ten years ago. so they're worried about it. someone was telling me the other day in textiles that textiles now are moving to bangladesh and other countries where it's even cheaper. they are worried about it. but, again, worry about it means they're spending serious time trying to figure out what to do. they don't have their head in the sand at all. >> rose: and they want prosperity to increase because more and more people want to enter and they want apartments and offices and... >> the economy is starting to take off, as you mentioned earlier. whether... you look at the estimates, you've got 300 million people going to 600 million people. wages are going up but the consuming power is going up. i think you've got an export

economy that's also internally driven by the construction and the infrastructure that we were talking about and i couldn't agree with you more. i think the chinese government and the people that we have working in china have nothing but respect for the chinese government. they think they'll figure it out and i think you've got that going for them. they also have a tremendous advantage of speed. just look how the inflation was handled. they knew it was an issue, they got on top of it and they also... there's a tremendous advantage in speed to market. >> rose: is corruption a problem? >> i think corruption is a problem in some places in the government but everybody's aware of these things. everybody has their eyes open and i think that china is evolving and it's going to evolve at its own pace and be successful. >> the notion that china knees people have nothing but respect for the chinese government i think overstates the case very dramatically. i think that clearly the chinese people are very proud of what their nation and government has accomplished economically over the years. they also are very aware of the

entrenched trupgs throughout the top levels. yes there are engineers running the chinese government. there are also billionaires running the chinese government. those two... the fact those two things... those things are not lost on the average chinese people. one of the things the chinese government did very well historically is they were insulated from the chinese people if they wanted to do a ten-year plan. if they wanted to move a village they could do that. increasingly they have real constituents that are capturing them that they have to listen to and that is limiting... >> rose: who are these constituents? >> their constituents are all over the place. they can be people that are demanding better air quality, there can be people saying we want our companies to do x, y, and sdv. some of those are positive things. the point is the chinese government itself increasingly has much less flexibility in its policy options. and when that occurs, their ability to choose how they want to work with the united states and american corporations as

opposed to with chinese firms also gets more constrained life is getting harder for the chinese government. making the right decisions is getting harder for the chinese government. as a consequence, even though they want to have good relations with american companies, they want to have good relations with the united states, but a week before he came to the u.s., they vetoed the security council resolution on syria. i hate to say it, but america, we're not their demographic. american multinationals aren't their demographic, either and that's going to cause a lot of challenge not just for u.s./china at the high level but also for folks on the ground doing business in china. >> rose: what did they veto the syrian resolution? why? >> my understanding was this the top foreign policy official in china was in favor of abstaining and then putin made an impassioned phone call to hu jintao and he said okay, i'll vote against, the russians have a strong view on this. the point is, the notion they would veto a week before they came to the united states to meet barack obama with the future president of china, a few

years ago, before 2008, that would have been unheard of. but now they're more constrained and we're seeing this across the blord. a chinese government that isn't democratic but has to increasingly focus within a much narrower decision set and making the kind of major political and economic transformations that need to occur, yes, they're aware, they're smart, they want to do the right thing but they're more constrained. we have smart officials in the united states but they're constrained >> it's evolution, don't you think? >> i think it's evolution under tougher circumstances. >> i think it's tougher circumstances but it's an evolution. but the point that i'm making about the highest government officials is that they're respected for their i.q. points. that's one thing i really do believe. >> rose: their i.q. points? >> yeah. and being very smart and very thoughtful and very aware of what's going on. >> i'm sensing disagreement from our friend from china. >> i agree with ian that i think

the chinese government's job is becoming more and more difficult. that the options are less and less. there's just so many different fractions and they all want... they all become quite vocal in what they want and i think before... before the time of twitter, social media, facebook, you can... most of the people's voice don't a place to be voiced and today anything happening in china it goes online and it creates such public awareness and i think the chinese government despite being not democratically elected also wants to be populist. >> you've got a country 20 years ago, gould there, they were burning little coal things to keep warm in the wintertime and

now they have electricity and natural gas and... >> rose: and... >> the country came from an undeveloped country where you had a billion point three people and they made changes. it has to be more complicated. it's a different dynamic. whether it's twitter or facebook but you have to look where they came from, where are they now and the point i'm trying to make is they understand they have a more difficult issue. why are they reaching out to people like david or myself and others come to china, meet with our c.e.o.s, talk to us about what you see, talk to us about the financial crisis. if you could do it over what would you do differently? now you take all of that on the economic side and you take the social issues, i think the concern also are the social issues. they're huge. >> rose: you mean social

tension? >> exactly. when take to young people in china and i ask them "what's on your mind?" john, i can take you to areas of this country you would be shocked with the pollution how people are treated. so, the government officials again i think they hear this. will they change as quickly as they might change... >> well, they also know about it. everybody in china knows about it because of social media today. they're all aware of the fear of instability that pervades that place and especially leadership. hu jintao worries most of all-- as you know, ian-- about some... the communist party losing control. that is the rampant fear that they have. right? >> stability. >> rose: stability. yes? >> no question about it. the change has been so dramatic to your point earlier. if you think about how they've managed through this change. when you go through massive changes in company or a country there's never a black and white, you have to move your way there. i think your way out of

navigating through this by seeking the know-how. i view them... one of their biggest strengths culturally is they that they're a know-how building country and they do put the smart people in the room and they do look for the solution. now we may not agree with all of them, they've got a lot of challenges but i'm very impressed. >> rose: my question is they would be ruthless if they made a decision that that was the way to go for the best interest of china they'd be ruthless in implementing that decision. >> and they'll go with it and have speed and get something done. >> is india over the long run a better model for the future? >> well, i think india's democratic. that's a big plus. with that come mrs. bureaucracy and chaos than in china. >> you know, in 1990...1993 i went to china for the first time and i was so blown away by it and immediately morgan stanley started investing in the region.

a year later or two years later i went to india and i said to myself "thank god i came to china first." because if i had gone to india, i would have seen english has a language, rule of law, more democracy than i've ever seen anywhere else. in the last two countries... in the last two decades and look at the to wount reis, who's made the move? china. india is making progress at a snail's pace. what china has done-- broadly, i know there's a lot of challenge, a lot of problems and a whole focus on raising the standard of living for the people-- versus india it's unbelievable, charlie. >> but do you believe india over the long run will be in a better place? >> i'm optimistic. most people i... >> i was just there, you can tell they're make progress but at a snail's pace. >> here's the question. you look at china right now and there's no question china this year, next year, the year after

that infrastructure wise, size of market, it's very exciting. you're facebook, you have 500 million people on the internet in china, you can't touch them. you can go into india. china's trying to develop their own 4g system, 4g standard telecommunications. india works with the rest of the world. this is the challenge and longer term you have the point that even though india is democratic and corrupt and slow and burdensome they can keep doing what they've been doing and the place won't fall apart. china has to actively restructure their economy and much of their political system they have to do things a country of 1.3 billion people have never done before in the history of the world. we're hoping they can do it. we all hope they can do it. >> we're pulling for them. >> how much do you want to bet on them that is an open question? >> it looks like political reform is on the way. when you look at when i can't think, the incoming politburo

member it has been widely predicted... >>. >> rose: he's now in charge of... >> guangdong province. he had overseen this village election. i don't know if you noticed that in the small village wukon where they were trying to... first went against the government because their land has been taken away. they first started with the social unrest and the government could have harshly cracked down. they didn't. instead they went in, managed by wan young to have a village election. so that was very much seen as a positive management in a smaller very grass root level a democracy. and even when jaw bow, now we're talking about democracy can happen and should happen at a village level and county level. so it seems like the political reform is on the way.

>> rose: do you agree with that? >> i think there are. >> rose: i really do. but the question will be as it gets more difficult, as the economic environment get mrs. difficult, as leaders get pressed, as they experience their own moments again as they will at some point, how do they respond? it's not when things are going well, but when things are going badly you wonder where people's values are and at that point will a country that runs by consensus without strong individual leaders but nex have to come together will they be willing to strip power and money away from state-owned enterprises? >> i disagree with you on that. i think the tiananmen incident happened precisely because off very... one very strong man and now that you don't one strong man off consensus. >> rose: this would be deng xiaoping? >> back in '89.

now you have a consensus group when there's social unrest it's unlikely to be going so harshly and that's what we have just seen in guangdong so this is... that's what we're looking at, the consensus building is a better way of dealing with the to ten, problems because it forces the governments to change rather than going bang it lets us fight and forces... that was what happened in '89. >> what about the currency, john? the idea of relaxing and letting their currency appreciate? >> well, what they said when they were here not long ago in washington to secretary clinton currency is appreciate add little over 26% in the last four years. but senator clinton said yes, that's not enough. they get it. i think it will appreciate more. they're focused on it. but, again, their focus has to be on job creation. and they've got to take care of their country first or they won't get the chance if they do

not take care of the country first. but they get it. they're very smart. >> rose: they focus on job creation by making sure that the growth rate remains around 8%. >> the currency is going up. there's no question about it. and it will be as was said over the next 20, 25 years, one of the three reserve currencies in the year along with the euro and the dollar. >> i agree. >> rose: some ople speculate the chinese economy is larger than the economy economy. have you ever read those stories? >> sure. there were a couple stories in the last year that basically said they outstripped it. look, i think the real point is whose economy is largest. i think the real question is who's the wealthier country? this is why you have to worry so much if you're the chinese government about employment because if you can't keep those employment numbers you're vastly concerned about social

instability. i'm not proud about the fact that we have a total unemployment, 15% total unemployment in this country but it's not as if people are going to storm the white house. you can have a downgrade in the u.s. and people still go to work the way they did before, they live the way they did before. we're going to be an environment... sooner or later, whatever the year is, china will be the world's largest economy. it will be a poor country. i don't think we appreciate how much of a change will that reflekt in the world order. >> very true. >> rose: that what change will it reflect in the world order? >> because their priorities will have to be overwhelmingly domestic. that's not true of the united states, we can do foreign policy badly or well and we've done both. china will not do that from their perspective, they should not do that. that's a vastly different way of thinking about the global economy, global politics.

one of the biggest will be a lot of countries creating global order, that order works for me. a lot of countries outside of china looking at what china will be doing will not work for that. >> rose: are you optimistic that we've turned the corner that 2008 brought around? >> we've made a lot of progress. i'm optimistic. we have serious issues still in europe even though but it's a matter of time and the question what happens in portugal, what happens in spain. >> there was a firewall created. >> well, it depends. if they need a lot more funding and the e.c.b. is not a united country but they call it a united bank system they're going to be big issues and that's a worry, hasn't gone away.

i think the u.s. is doing better and the unemployment rate is probably 14%15% because many people are no longer applying for unemployment but by and large given where we were in '08 the world's a much better place what does it mean with oil at $110 a barrel? with syria and the middle east and maybe iran, you put that in, there's a lot of risk in the world. >> rose: think thanks to seeian brehmer, zhang xin, david novak and john mack. a couple things for your reading list, "newsweek" "the rise of china's billionaire tiger women" bloomberg "businessweek" has "hey, china, stop stealing our stuff." david novak has a book called "taking people with you" and ian bremmer has a book called "every nation for itself, winners and losers in a g 0 world. china and its future.

back in a moment. dr. mark hyman is here, a family physician and health advocate, the author of several best selling book including "the blood sugar solution: the ultra healthy program for losing weight, preventing disease and feeling great now." it's about the rise of diabetes in this country and what we can do to reverse that trend. i am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. well come. >> rose: thank you, charlie. >> tell me what it is this book is about, the blood sugar solution because you raise real questions about obesity and the relationship between obesity and diabetes. >> that's right. you know, charlie, one in two americans has why i call dai-besity. which is either diabetes or pre-diabetes. it can be up to 80% of african american women and minority populations.

it's rampant and the problem is that doctors graduate medical school knowing more about how to treat malaria than how to treat obesity and obesity related problems. we don't know how to diagnosis this problem. that means 90% of people with this condition don't know they have it. 25% of diabetics are not diagnosed and 90% of pre-die baht i cans. this is the major driver of our chronic diabetes epidemic. the thing driving heart attacks, many cancers like breast cancer and prancer, strokes, dementia, we're calling that type three diabetes now. infertility. sexual dysfunction. even acne and depression all caused by die beastie and we need to provide a road map so it's based on a model of think we treat risk factors, high blood pressure and cholesterol.

those are symptoms, not the cause. it's like the new weight loss drug. it's desperate attempt to solve a problem with a pill. >> rose: what's the cause? >> the cause is multiple things but primarily our industrial diet which is high in sugar. 150 pounds per person per year. that's about a half a pound a day. >> rose: 150 pounds per person per year? >> yes. this is the american diet. we eat 24 pounds of pizza, 24...23 pounds of ice cream, 24 pounds of artificial sweeteners, 53 gallons of soda, 2.7 pounds of salt and 90,000 milligrams of caffeine per person average every year. and it's mostly sugar and flour products that are driving this epidemic plus our sedentary life-style. and there are other unique things. for example, environmental toxins have been linked to diabetes and obesity. digestive issues.

changes in your gut flora related to taking antibiotics or steroids or hormones change your gut bacteria and those have been linked to obesity they're doing fecal transplants to treat i wantty. they've taken the poop have from skinny people and put in the overweight people and they lose weight. >> rose: so let's assume somebody walks into your office and they're on the track. the first thing you do is what? you do a lot of serious testing? >> i do a lot of serious questioning. i have a 30 page questionnaire which helps me connect the dots. i'm the doc who connects the dots and tells you how everything is connect sod i want to know everything about you from whether you were born through the birth canal or c-section, breast ephedra, whether you've had your immunization, i want to know about your child hood illnesses and the timeline of what's happened to see what are the pre-disposing factors? the triggering factors, the biological factors out of balance now and i look at your body as a system and i try to

understand where the systems are out of balance and help you remove the things creating imbalance and put in the things that are needed to create balance so/take out bad stuff and put in good stuff. >> rose: how much is diet? >> a lot of it is diet. basically, charlie, chronic disease a food-borne illness we ate ourself into this problem... >> rose: diabetes, heart disease... >> cancer, dementia, depression. we ate ourselves into this problem and we have to eat ourselves out. there's been a powerful new discovery in science, there's a new compound that's been found to reverse aging, to improve telemears, to turn on thousands of genes that create health and it's food! >> rose: not eating. >> food! it's the most powerful medicine on the planet and it does things that no pharmacologic treatment can ever do. >> rose: so this idea of insulin resistance. >> so your whole bod body is a finely choreographed dance of hormones and once of the most

important hormones is insulin made by your pancreas and it there's to help the sugar in yourself. when you become insulin resistant your cells become numb to the effects of insulin so you need more and more insulin to let the sugar in. the problem is insulin is a fat-storage hormone and it makes you store belly fat or visceral add pos tissue and those are full of inflammatory popl pounds that are driving the diseases so you want to keep your blood sugar in balance. if you took a group of 100 year old people and they had healthy and clean arteries he said they would be insulin sensitive. i was talking to the scientist who discovered the genes that are the master aging control genes i said what is it about these genes that are so good and

he received they fix insulin resistance. we have to have a diet including nutritional support to help us regulate insulin functions. >> rose: suppose you're 50 years old, is it too late? >> absolutely not. we just had a book launch party for my book and i had patient there is who had lost 150 pounds a 63-year-old guy buoy was three hundred pounds, type two diabetic, angina, heart failure, erectile dysfunction, you name it, he had it. after a year he lost 150 pounds, no more disease... >> rose: all those things went away? >> gone. and he'd also been off nine medications that he was on. so we see people getting off insulin, reversing diabetes all the time. if you know how to apply the right tools and strategy. most doctors aren't trained to do that. >> rose: this book is called "blood sugar solution, preventing disease." if you read this book you will find the guidance you need in order to be able to enhance your insulin resis sense in >> absolutely. if you follow this program.

we've had literally hundreds of people already following it. it's reversed diabetes in many people. >> reversed die wets? so if you were on your way to becoming type two diabetic. >> people don't realize these conditions are reversible. heart disease is reversible. diabetes is easier to cure than heart disease. >> rose: what about heart disease is reversible? >> plaque in the arteries. i've had patients who follow this approach. angiograms, then ten years later they have another one and they're better and the science is there. there was a study i wanted to tell you about in england they took a group of advanced diabetics and changed their diet radically and in one week they were able to normalize their levels and in 12 weeks they reversed the changes relled to diabetes in the pancreas and liver. we know this is possible. it happens with bypass. you can take someone who is mortar lid by obese, give name bypass, change their diet radically and in two weeks their diabetes is gone. >> rose: president bill clinton said this because he has

endorsed it. "i hope dr. hyman's new book will inspire you as he has inspired me." also i think the secretary of state. in the last decade the rise of obesity and diabetes has emerged as a crisis that threatens our families. this is from president clinton. is i've made drastic changes to my own diet and exercise routine since my heart trouble surfaced in 2004. there seems to be a careful use of language so that he didn't say one thing and wanted to say the right thing. basically saying that i hope the book will inspire me... inspire you as he inspired me. what does he mean by "inspired" snow >> well, you know, what i presented to him was a vision of creating health and reversing disease that i don't think his conventional doctors were presenting him. they were giving him high doses of certain medication, stents and surgery. >> rose: statins and all that. >> and there's a role for those

but you have to turn off the faucet. you can't just mop up the floor while the sink is over flowing so you can take statin bus if you're eating cheeseburgers and fries and a coke it won't help. >> rose: everybody knows that, though. >> they do know that. but they don't know the possibility... >> rose: they know that. mayonnaise and all that. >> they don't know the possibility of using food reverse disease. you even said to me "can you really reverse type two diabetes?" >> rose: well, of course i said that but... >> the answer is yes. and the reason we don't see it is because we don't do it. >> rose: the blood sugar solution, mark hyman, thank you for being here. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org