>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight, a look at the queen's diamond jubilee celebration with suzy menkes, sally bell dead smith, naill first degree son and tina brown. we continue looking at shakes here in the park with lily rabe, oliver plat, daniel sullivan and oskar eustis. tonight, the queen's jubilee and shakespeare in the park when we continue.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. britain is celebrating the

diamond jubilee of queen elizabeth ii. it marks her 60th year on the throne. whatever you may think of the institution of monarchy, the queen has led an extraordinary life. she came to power in 1952 before the current prime minister david cameron was even born. she meets with him regularly as she has done with every prime minister back to winston churchill. the past 60 years have seen elizabeth's britain undergo great change, from leader of an empire to member of a commonwealth. but through all of this, the queen's presence represents stability and continuity. >> i declare before you all that my whole life-- whether it be long or shot-- shall be devoted to your service and to the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong. >> rose: joining me from london, suzy menkes. in london, sally bedell smith, her latest book is "elizabeth the queen, the life of a modern monarch."

from cambridge, john burns, a london bureau chief of the "new york times." with me in new york, naill ferguson, he's a professor at harvard university and historian of the british empire. finally tina brown, the editor of "newsweek" and the daily beast and the author of "the diana chronicles." i'm pleased to have all of them here as we take note of this moment on the monarchy one and all, welcome. let me begin. tell me, tina, since you know both countries, the significance of this diamond jubilee. >> it's an incredible national celebration of this woman as well as this institution because the queen, 60 years, really, of being impeccable. and so in a sense in this great moment, love of elizabeth, if you like and love of country have somehow become united into enormous explosion. >> rose: but it's both about her and the country. >> it is. it is. because i think people... she has managed to seamlessly-- because of how impeccable she is

marry the feeling of the monokhark that,ky and the country with her. >> rose: suzy, what does the pageantry suggest and represent? >> there's so many symbols that are connected with monarchy. the queen has been quite clever herself in keeping them and,/ht changing them. so you see her going in her golden coach to open parliament with a tiara looking very regal but she's also capable of using the same kind of regal feeling to much more simple things, especial they famous head scarf. i bet she wished she was wearing one of those yesterday with the wind and the rain. but i think we see even in her outfit yesterday what she was wearing, the white with the jewels in it and the hat, it was very much reminiscent of queen elizabeth i, a very long time ago but somehow that link with the past. >> rose: john, speaking of linking with the past, what about queen victoria and her

diamond jubilee. how does this compare? >> well, of course, she celebrated her jubilee at the height... the crescendo of imperial power. this is a very different country but also a very different queen. queen victoria was still in her widow's widz when she celebrated her diamond jubilee in 1897. she was 78 years old, which is to say that she was seven or eight years younger the then than the queen is now but shelú was very infirm, very frail, she didn't attend the great naval regatta at spithead of british naval warships, she sent her son bertie, later edward vii on her behalf. she did attend a service of thanksgiving somewhat reluctantly at st. paul's cathedral but she never got out of her coach at the foot of the stairs, steps leading up into st. paul's cathedral and the archbishop had to literally and

metaphorically come to her. >> rose: and, sally, how is she a modern monarch? >> well, she's managed, as suzy eluded to earlier, to incrementally change the monarchy in ways that are very difficult to detect but are nevertheless substantive. the pace of that modernization probably accelerated after the death of diana when she quite frankly acknowledged that there were lessons to be learned in the way diana lived and the way people reacted to her death. since then i think the whole royal family had been more informalal. she has not only modernized but i think strengthened the monarchy and although she is committed to serve until she dies, she has reiterated that many times since that speech that she gave at age 21, she also as her eye very firmly focused on the future, on the next generation and the

generation[8bñ beyond, particuly william in harry who n whose upbringing she has taken a very strong hand. >> rose: more about that later. from queen victoria to queen elizabeth on her diamond jubilee. britain has changed. where is it today compared to where it was then? >> well,5txs firstq realize that pageantry is the only thing that britain is still really good at. >> rose: (laughs) >> so it does help the country's image to focus on pageant even when the weather plays its now traditional role of completely disrupting and spoiling the event. but if one abstracts away from that and asks a question about the rest of britain, you get a very different picture. britain is the offshore financialo europe. it's hong kong to europe's china. most of the economic activity in the united kingdom is very closely related to the city of london's financial services sector and, of course, it suffered a massive blow in the

financial crisis in 2008/2009 from which it is recovering. conservative liberal coalition is struggling to gain the upper hand with theokí1 massive pile f debt that has been the principle legacy of this crisis and ultimately this pageant rihab a kind of temporary and welcome respite from the very, very hard choices that confront the government and ordinary britains today. >> rose: is there much to be said over the great relationship between the united states and britain? >> british and american relationships is multifaceted. it that has serious side, which is the financial connection between new york and london. it has its frivolous side which is that american's like to watch "downton abbey" and they like to watch the real thing, pageantry like this. and you can always get the queen on the front of the "new york times" at times like. this i... i think the americans

are so much more fascinated with the pomp, the frills and circumstances and it's something the british do better than anybody else and that may be because nobody else thinks it's worth doing this well. i must say i find myself... perhaps i'm just a stingy olds scottsman asking quite how this expenditure-- which was quite lavish on celebrating the diamond jubilee-- was compatible with the austerity policies the government is having to pursue because of the crisis i mentioned earlier. >> rose: john, is this the height of her affection... people's affection and admiration for this queen? >> well, it certainly was the grandest public spectacle of her career. and i think it reflected some realities. it wasn't just a window. it think that it allowed people to think about all the things that elizabeth represents and beyond that all of the things that are right in this country. we all know what's wrong and there's a lot of it. but there's also a lot that's right.

when naill talks about pageantry being the only thing we do better, i don't agree with him about that. i think that all of you know probably better than i do the contribution that britain makes in the arts. it certainly makes a very big contribution in the sciences. you go to cal tech or nasa or any one of those great american scientific institutions and you'll find a plethora of brits there. my only passion... private passion is for motor racing. virtually all of the cars at the indianapolis 500 for the last 30 or 40 years have been designed or built in britain. britain tom nates formula one racing. there's a lot that's right and there are minor things. there are many more things, i won't bore you with them. i wanted to say something else about the financing of this. the pageant on the rir cost about $10 million pounds. the money was raised by lord salisbury who is a descendent of

the earl of salisbury who was prime minister more than once in the 19th century and he was complaining about how hard it was trying to find people who were inviting their wealthy friends to come and see the pageant from reviewing stance along the river but not paying... they] freeloaders. >> freeloading is a great british tradition. and i actually think that... i agree with naill that the british do do these pageants in such an amazing way. this pageant master is a genius. he's like the busby berkeley of royal life, he really is. and to feel... to decide to make it for start a river pageant and because the thames is such a superhighway of british history, to reaffirm that with this pageant was so brilliant. and when you think back that so many times in british life things have been going really badly and then at a big royal occasion like this pulls it out. at the time of diane that's

wedding there were riots in liverpool. just a few months after kate and william's wedding there were the riots in august. when things went crazy, sort of "clockwork orange" scum of the earth kind of uproar as it were. now we have this terrible austerity moment and you have this great pageant. so i think the tory government is probably thrilled that they've got this amazing distraction from all the news that's so bad. >> reporter:. >> rose: david cameron is refusing to talk about anything now except the queen over the interviews he's doing over the last 24 hours. >> oh, well, not being the land of my birth i was engaging in something we british also do brilliantly, which is irony. >> rose: (laughs) >> remember that? and so... let's not get carried away.(íío >> rose: you're intrigued now, are you? >> i'm entirely content that britain is a monarchy and a monarchy is important in one crucial way: it reminds us of the connection between the generations. what burke called the real

social contract. the contract between the generations. and that's something which by and largee?3/ñ western societiee forgotten in recent years which is one reason they're leaving a massive pile of debt to the next generation. the queen embodies continuity and in a tremendous way. i agree with everything that's been said about her. she is, indeed, impeccable and a celebration of that is something that everybody has a right to enjoy. and, of course, keep calm and carry on is the great slogan. if the weather had been perfect it wouldn't have been so good, it wouldn't have been so british. but soldiering on and having an enormous flotilla in the driving rain is the essence of queen elizabeth's era. >> and they did not sit down. the great sodden slog which is england, it's going to be raining but they didn't sit down. of course now poor prince philip is in hospital so it probably half killed him doing it. >> rose: but she stood up. the queen did not sit down. >> they wouldn't sit on the throne which symbolically was very important. they stood. actually, even before they got on that royal barge i was

further up the river near batter sea bridge and i saw what i think was really the most moving part of the whole river pageant and it was when... well, there were four of them. it was when philip and elizabeth were standing up in the old launch from "britannia" which has been decommissioned 15 years ago. she hadn't laid eyes on this boat for 15 years and when "britannia" was decommissioned she cried. and there she was emergeingk< fm under batter see bridge in this tiny boat standing... the two of them, this may have been... they really expose themselves to the elements at that point. charles and camilla were in the cabin but the queen and philip were standing ram rot straight and the crowds went nuts. the roar was unbelievable. and they looked up and they smiled and they waved. then they moved down the river and they got on that very, very elaborately decorated barge. but it was that moment, that

sentimental moment that may have been the most meaningful. and it was the most powerful. everybody around me had tears in their eyes and i did, too. >> the generation game. we musn't exaggerate. there have been periods where queen elizabeth ii hasn't been popular. she came to the throne, she was young, beautiful, and everybody revered her. there was a period in the '06s just as i was growing up when she seemed extremely boring and out of touch and the rejuvenation always comes with a new generation. so when diane a first appeared she was magically relighting up again the royal family. and the same hasç!9w happened recently with kate middleton, will william and kate's marriage this time last year. and these are things that regenerate monarchy. but it doesn't... hasn't just stayed during thesel> rose: it seems to me that... >> well, the big... i was going

to say the biggest down was after diana's death and the royal household took that very seriously because it was a low moment for the queen and the entire monarchy and it was at that point they started doing their own private polling and their own focus groups and their main concern then was that the queen was perceived to be out of touch. well, there was a day that said three times as many people in britain think that the queen is in touch with the concerns of ordinary people than politicians do. >> i think one has to remember about the british monarchy is that it isn't really a powerful entity and it hasn't been since 1688. it's not about political power. the monarch has been subordinate to power since the late 17th century so what is it about? it's about representation, symbolizing the nation in all its complexity. but that representation depends on something we haven't mentioned yet and that is the press, the media.

the shadow side of this is the relationship between the monarchy and the press which is an incrediblyf relationship. it's great copy if they had good looking royals you can put on front page. it's great copy if there are scandals you can put on the front page. right now even as the pageantry is going on the british are conducting inquiry into the appalling behavior of certain sections of the british press which is revealing some very, very unhealthy realities about british life and i'm afraid that's been a very big part of the way in which the press has operated in britain in elizabeth ii's reign and for me the relationship became a foustian one, particularly at the time of diana, where the monarchy thought it could reinvent itself through the press and it very nearly destroyed itself that way. >> obviously, for a longexqh tie the press never touched the royals. they were out-of-bounds, as it were. then along came rupert murdoch, when he bought the "news of the world" and changed the whole

name of the game. and that's when all the kind of scandal stuff started with the royals. when in a sense the murdoch press decided that the gloves were off and it was time to treat them like scandal fodder which helped to destroy them for a time. so when you say they made a foustian bargain they were like deers in the headlights, they didn't know how to cooperate or not cooperate. they tried to play the old game and it wasn't getting them anywhere. and diana%q#÷ was beating them t their game by manipulating them with the press and finally it also helped to destroy her. and i think the death of diana there was a feeling of guilt in the british press. there was definitely a feeling that they knew they had driven her to her death is the truth and the queen and prince william have been extremely tough on the press about invasion ever since. and actually william was given a hands-off treatment while he was at cambridge. they did sort of leave him alone... sorry, not cambridge, he wasn't there, he was at st. andrew's. they did a hands-off on him and

although they have tried to get dish on william and kate it's not remotely what it was like in the era of diana. so i think there's been a definite cooling down of press excess with regard to the royals. >> i want to know how kate middleton now the duchess of cambridge felt this morning when finally she had fallen off her pillar as far as her dress was concerned. the british tabloids went hell for her saying that she was trying to upstage the queen. that the bright red was unsuitable and she may have looked great but when they printed up the picture of kim kardashian wearing the same outfit-- granted, without sleeves-- you did have a little bit of thinking she has got to be careful because the press are going to go for her once they see some way of attacking somebody wk$0n, up to now, has been miss perfect. >> i was quite surprised to hear kim kardashian had worn the same dress. i thought that was a little bit of a palace slip that she was in

the same dress. >> rose: did we talk about a lot especially an age of television and ratings because the monomarkey are good ratings? >> well, we do talk about it a lot here. it seems there are huge peaks and valleys here. people are interested, as you say, in a broadway. >> rose: this is the first time i've talked about in the a long time on this show. but is it true that the royal family in britain are great for television ratings? or it-to-put them on the cover of a magazine >> i think they are great for feelings of stability andéw@ continuity, as naill said. for feelings of reference to something more, particularly in an era when celebrity has become so cheesy. in a strange way because the queen has been so impeccable, because she doesn't give interviews she is the most iconic figure of them all because she just doesn't speak. >> rose: charlie, there's a word we haven't used and it's a counterpoint to what naill and tina were saying about the theatrical, cinematic or media

aspect of the monarchy which is authenticity. it seems to me-- and especially the last weeks talking to peep about the monarchy in this country that one of the things they appreciate greatly about the queen is how authentic and how real she is. they may not know her very well, but certain qualities in her character-- her modesty, a straightforwardness, an unflappable nature are very apparent and very, very popular, i thought the sunday... the "london sunday times" caught something important yesterday which i felt, i think many others felt it was looking forward to a time when she won't be there anymore. and, of course, we don't know how long that will be. it might be soon. it might be in the case of philip who's in hospital tonight even sooner. let's hope not. let's hope he's well. but the sund times said that...

sunday times said life would be unimaginable without her and as i watched them on the prow of that deck yesterday in the driving rain and blustery wind i must say i had some concern as to whether this made sense, two people of that age, but also a feeling of what will it be like? my first thought was if i'm the london bureau chief when it happens what ak0p will be. i remember as a child king george i remember winston churchill going up the thames in a barge after his funeral. it will be the biggest funeral in memory, possibly in history in this country and i think the people, the vast majority of people will be absolutely bereft because she has been this authentic, stable, continuous figure in the country's life. >> part of her authenticity is truly believing in her vows. she believes that her job is for life and her role is for life and her calling is for life and

she will die on the throne and, you know, she... i think she would never countenance the notion that prince charles would not succeed her. the notion that it could "skip a generation" that's fantasy. it won't skip a generation. >> rose: because it goes against everything she's already believed in. once they start doing that they can start doing other things. >> it's a hard act to follow and one of the problems with very long reigns is that they make the succession difficult, the success is almost bound to be undervalued and prince charles has a long-standing problem of not being rated anything as highly as his mother, i think often unfairly. the comparisons have already been made with the reign of queen victoria but i'm not sure that's the best comparison i think the penultimate happensburg who rained a long time so long that nobody could remember who had been there before him. but that was the end of the line.

when he died his successor reigned for barely more than a year. and i think it's worth asking the question of whether this fundamentally institution...úrk let's face it, monarchy like the papacy something from the pre-modern era. whether it would, in fact, withstand the great crisis which will surely come when she finally leaves this earth.($ i'm sure prince charles will do his best to retain the credibility she has built up but it will be a challenge especially if it happens-- as seems likely-- in the midst of a european crisis. >> rose: we're seeing questions raised about the monarchy with more intensity after she goes? >> it shows people aren't as enthusiastic about prince charles but it really shows the queen... i don't think it's a give than the monarchy just survive. i do think now suitability is built in. i don't thinkç'?u the monarchy d survive now in britain, a very

dare elect monarch, somebody who is a drinker, playboy. >> rose: if she .been liz tett... >> right. and it seems that prince william and kate seem to be extraordinarily well groomed to this role. >> rose: and i was impressed with prince harry and the interviews i saw. he served himself very well. prince harry. >> i thought there was enormous symbolism yesterday in kamel la who was such an outcast comingz center stage. the queen put herself out to have camilla beside her. they appeared to be laughing, joking. this is the first time i can remember seeing camilla embraced as a future queen. you know, the last polls i think still sçkwvñ people would not be willing to recognize her as a queen. but the truth of the matter is that now they are married if prince charles... if and when prince charlinñ+z becomes king n camilla will become queen. and i think we saw yesterday that that is a possibility.

>> well, that's why the emphasis throughout this weekend has been on that very tight, nuclear now functioning and cohesive royal family. the queen, prince philip, charles, camilla, william, harry and kate. and they were front and center in that royal barge. >> rose: john burns, in the end this happen a very successful diamond jubilee. >> it has and aagreed absolutely. was it knee who said that the reign rain-- which we feared would spoil it-- allowed the queen to show herself with all the fortitude that she's shown so often. and the crowds absolutely loved it. i thought the most magnificent moment was when the london philharmonic orchestra glided up in the end and played a medley

of patriotic songs, sea shanties "land of hope and glory" and of course "rule britannia" and "god save the queen." you could see all the royal family tapping along in harmony. i think it's been a terrific success for the family and the country. >> rose: this is what tina said. "no one has been shrewder than the queen to understand that in the long game, no one knows better than she what it means to be royal. she saw star power wreck the lives of not just diana but more camera ready younger sister margaret not to mention her uncle edward viii who was a popular sensation before he messed it up and abdicatedñ." what do we know about her sflix is she more comfortable with toris? >> i don't think she's a mortar radical tory i think she's a

liberal tory. she was discomforted by mrs. thatcher's radical approach andc;3 it was causing too much social divide so she wasn't a thatcherite in that time. that was the one period when we sensed the queen was not really in sync with her prime minister, would you agree? >> i do agree but there'swh: another dimension to this and we scnt a conversation of britain without reminding everyone that class is the sole obsession of british life and the queen is part of the upper class, the tough class. and that's been true ever since they stopped being part of an international cosmopolitan royal elite and started to call themselves windsor which was during the first world war. and they started to marry members of the british aristocracy. now they're part of the aristocracy. they're just the top aristocrats at least that's how they think of themselves. some aristocrats look down on the royal family. >> the spencers. >> absolutely they do.

>> rose: this is the family of diana. >> and so he fits effortlessly toer social circle. the prime ministers she's had trouble with are the ones who've been pushy grammar schoolboys obviously middle-class and with a chip on their shoulders. >> there's a couple things to say about class. one of them is that the public opinion surveys, all of them, don't show any kind of alignment between working class politics-- certainly not the politics of the labour party-- and the issue of the monarchy. in fact, many surveys show that the strongest support for the monarchy is in the working class and lower middle-class. the second thing is we hear anecdotally-- of course we never hear it publicly-- that the queen is very funny when she mick micks people and one of the most popular forms of mimicry is to mimic tough people who are overly formal and overly pompous. she hates pomposity.

>> she certainly hates pomposity. >> that's very true. >> at a recent garden party atf queen said to her "you better answer that, it could be somebody important." (laughter) >> rose: she also famously said, i think... someone came up to her and said "what is it you do?"ô >> that was somebody yes. she was at a garden party three years ago and she was moving among the 8,000 guests and being introduced to a selection of them and one of the women looked at her and said "what do you do?" and three days later the queen was at a friend's birthday party and she recounted the exchange and said "i had no idea what to say, it was the first time anybody asked me thatdu >> rose: i think about all the attention... >> but she does a lot. >> people ask about the economic crisis which is why on earth nobody didn't see it coming. she asked the best question about the crisis. why did you great economists not understand this would happen?

there's always been a very strong relationship between the elite, if you like, the officers and the men. it's the bourgeoisie middle-class intellectuals who are republicans and middle-class intellectuals who are uncomfortable with the pageantry. the working class1> on that i say thank you all. we remember certainly there was diana's funeral and before that the great event was celebrated was this queen's coronation, i guess. she was how old when she came to power? >> 27. >> rose: thank you, sally, suzy, naill, teen that. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we continue this evening our series "why shakespeare? " shakespeare in the park is a new york city institution.

for decades audiences have seen masterful performances of shakespeare for free. this summer marks the 509 anniversary of this time-honored tradition at the dell court theater in central park. here's a look at some of the highlights over the years. >> either you must lay down the treasures of your body to this supposed or else to let him suffer. what would you do? >> as much for my poor brother as myself, that is where ii÷0 entered enter the terms of death. theo)clx impressions of keen wid wear as rubies and strip myself to death as to aa bed that longing has been sick for. eyre i yield my body up to shame. >> he hath disgraced2goy me mocd at my gains, storned my nation, cooled my friends, heeded mine enemies and what is reason?

i am a jew! >> god defend me from these. >> how say you, then by the french? >> god made him and therefore let him pass for a man. (laughter) >> i know it's a sin to be a mocker but he... well, he has a horse better than neapolitans, a better bad habit of frowning than the count, he is every man and no man. >> the same behavior that your passion bears goes on my master's grief. >> here, where this jewel for me. here's my picture! refuse it not. it hath to no tongue to vex you. and i beseech you come again tomorrow. what shall you ask of me that i'll deny that? that on saved may upon asking give. >> nothing but this your true love for my master. >> how with mine honor may i give him that which i have given to you? >> i will acquit you. >> well... come again tomorrow.

(laughter) oh! ♪ ♪ ♪ unless he's dead he's full of porridge... ♪ ♪ a soldier's sure to turn and run, give him good grub so he knows where ♪ to point his gun >> macbeth does sleep, the innocent sleep, sleep and mix up the rabbled sleeve of care, the death of each day's life balm of hurt minds, great nature'soñ second course, chief nourisher in life's feast. >> what do you mean? >> till it cried sleep no more. to all the house it hath

murdered sleep and therefore he shall sleep no more. macbeth shall sleep no more. >> then burst his mighty heart and in his mantle muffling up his face great caesar fell. oh, if all were there, my countrymen, then i and you and all of us fell down with bloody trees and flourished over us! >> rose: to celebrate this milestone the public theater staging shakespeare's as you like it and the steven sondheim musical "into the woods." joining me, two members of the cast of "as you like it" lily rabe and oliver platt.

also dan yul sullivan and oskar eustis. oskar, tell me why this now? >> "as you like it" is about people who flee the.xyg oppresn of the city, go into the forest and rediscover what is valuable about themselves and each other it's one of the great plays about love. both guys figure out what love is in the forest it's a beautiful thing to do in central park. >> rose:8ho. describe rosalyn fr me. some people have said she's one of the great female characters shakespeare wrote. >> she's extraordinarily strong and she knows what she wants and she wants love but she wants it her way which means that she wants to be absolutely certain that the person she loves will love her forever. >> rose: lots of people have played this role. >> yeah! (laughter)

>> rose: it's not the first time. so how do you come at it? as you think about it and get ready for it? >> oh, well i think to have an opportunity as an actress to play this part and particularly to play this part in dan's production of it in the park i can't think of more wonderful, wonderful place. >> rose: that good? >> there's something about playing the part i already... i burst into tear it is other day thinking about the fact that i have to say good-bye to her in a month. we haven't even had our first preview so... (laughter) but i... carrying her around with me everyday is... it's an incredible privilege she's so awake, she's so present.

>> oh! jupiter how weary are my spirits. >> i care not for my spirits if my legs were not weary. >> i could find in the my heart to disgrace my man's apparel and to cry like a woman but i must comfort the weaker vessel and therefore courage! i pray you bear with me, i cannot go no further. >> for my part i would rather bear with you than bear you. (laughter) >> well this is the forest of arden. >> now i am in arden, the more fool i! at home i was in a better place@ but travelers must be content. >> be so, good touchstone. >> rose: and playing hit in the park? >> well, it's heaven, it's just so amazing and to be inar den and then to have that... i was

just looking out at the set, you don't know where the park begins and the set ends and it's pretty extraordinary. >> rose: who is touchstone? >> good question. (laughter) he's a fellow who sort of goes... he's taken along for the ride and then unexpected things happen to him in the forest ofarden like they happen to everybody and, you know, he... he's... he's changed in a mysterious way. he is maybe not as... shakespeare is... was talking about different kinds of love and his love... the love that touchstone is struck with is let's say more of a carnal nature but it's love to him anyway and it's... it's a very... it's a wonderfully

mysterious play and i'm still figuring it out. i hope to not be able to completely answer that question. >> rose: you never should for a great character, should you? >> yeah, exactly. a great part is the one that keeps you on asking the question. >> rose: so when you're directing this, what's the challenge for you? get out of the way or... >> it's always get out of the way but we can't help ourselves directors are in the way and somehow the play survives. for me it's to balance the romantic, the comic and there are very dark places in the play also that have to exist that can't overwhelm the play. so being able to orchestrate that balance, i think. >> rose: how do you do that? >> well, i think you don't allow

the darkness to get too dark and you don't allow the comedy to go beyond believable behavior. so that you try to make a whole piece out of it. and that's... my job with the actors, actually, i think. >> rose: do you learn from each other the two of you as you rehearsed? >> oh, absolutely. unquestionably, i think. and in each other there's to me one of the real treats about working in the park and doing a... shakespeare's play invariably helps with a larger cast. you get exposure to all these sensational actors that... when i first started i did "twelve night" i played toby belch and there was an actor who had never seen or heard before and i was just astonished by what he was

doing. and that experience has repeated itself in this production and it's just... i love... you're an idiot if you don't take stuff in and that's the fun of it. >> rose: now the fool is a character that appears in a number of shakespeare's plays, yes? >> that's right. but the touchstone is supposedly according to the scholarship one of the... for the first... it's a transitory fool in a sense that it's the first one that started to just instead of just sort of making puns and grabbing his nether regions he started to actually make more sophisticated comments of what was going on around him. yet he still sort of a... he's just sort of wise idiot, you know? (laughs) the that's one of the real mysterious challenges of playing

the part is i walk that line. >> you got such a great cast here. oskar, you have such a great director. why only ten days? >> well, we've got a month of previews and performances so we have about 26 perform masses by the time we're all done. >> rose: so the previews are as good as the performance? >> the pri views are going to be... >> rose: not like starting from scratch? >> not at all. and because we do it for free it means werd matter how long we run it so there's a certain limitation, how much it costs to run. i know many viewers will be delighted to support the theater with donations that will allow us to do long future. >>c so but i was just thinking so many people making so much damn money, this being the financial sector that some of those people ought to think seriously about culture and what can be done because they like it¢ >> i agree, a also the public theater doing this in the

central park it's a civic jewel, one of the glorious things about being in the park is you're not just in central park, you here in the center of new york city in a park just like you'rem inarden doing a play. and that makes it the most vift city experience that you can have. and there's a wonderful sense of what a wild democracy this city isc >> rose: if you're doing shakespeare, does it never grow old? was it always fresh? >> for me it is. this is a play i've done before and when i got my>!)eñ old scrit to prepare this i had notice in the margin i thought what the hell was i talking about? (laughter) i didn't recognize it. >> rose: because you didn't see it? saw it differently? >> and i've gotten older. i see the world differently and how you see the world you bring to the play and the play is so

large that it allows all this new thinking that you have also. ... the miracle of shakespeare is that it continues to grow inside you as you grow. >> rose: do you have shakespearean ambitions meaning there's certain things you want to play regardless? >> well, i would just like to be in production of dan's in the park every summer? (laughter) every other summer for the rest of my life. >> rose: you'll carve out a mark there. >> that's my main shakespearean ambition. >> rose: do you think about in the terms of a... in some balance in terms of the kind of career i want to have... >> yes, i... yes, i would say that... i don't have a lot of very specific career goals actually at all but i think shakespeare would be the one

that i do have that i hope in my lifetime to get to play all of those parts. >> rose: what's the significance of the forforest? >> rose: in the play? >> the forest is a placeqj people are able to transform themselves. one of my favorite lines in the play is by a relatively small character, orlando's you#4jy brother oliver who says at one point when he's confronted with his evil behavior in the past. "it was i but 'tis not i." and that sense of you can leave your old self behind and reinvent yourself. and with touchstone... we were just talking about this. you watch him shed the skin of this cynical iron i can urban rue and discover something about connection. and that happens to all the characters in the forest and that's the way that shakespeare

simultaneously is mocking the tradition of the pastoral but he's also embracing it. the idea that nature is a place where you can rediscover something essential. >> rose: do you agree with that in your can recollecter the? >> absolutely, yes. and the extraordinary thing to watch in the playç3j6 is how it happens to all of the travelers and it happens in very different ways that are all a combination of... i don't know how else to put it but very entertaining, very moving. i think this idea ofex 0 reinven is something that's very human. i think we are constantly wanting to reinvent ourselves or looking for some sort of deeper meaning whether we know we are or not. >> rose: or discover ourselves. >> yes, exactly.

and shakespeare's utter brilliance is precisely what oscar was talking about. here he is once sort of mocking the genre and at the same time completely embracing reinventing it and moving the target, bringing it to a different place. >> rose: was it shakes here in steve martin's banjo music is in this? (laughter) >> yes, it says "enters with banjo." >> rose: he went back to find this in the archives? laugh >> yes, but the banjo and mountain music sits so well the words of the songs and steve is witnessing wonderful, wonderful music. he's not in the play. >> rose: glorious banjo music.

and four pieces? >> four or five pieces and there's a score written around it that's really quite beautiful but really sophisticated stuff and it also has a wonderful rustic quality to it that the songs have. >> rose: steve takes his music seriously. >> very. >> rose: when you think about shakespeare do you have some order in your mind that there's some experience you want to have? there is some production you want to do that there's a list of things that oskar wants to make sure that he touches. as an actor might want to touch hamlet and whatever else depending on their age? >> we're going to do all of shakespeare's 37 plays and maybe even a couple we're not sure... >> rose: in how long? >> well, that's the big question. what i really want to do,

charlie, the big idea i'm working on right now is something we call "the american widow." and i want to four years do the entire canon in order of composition. so give those few thousand diehards who really care about this the chance to watch in sequence in chronological sequence everything shakespeare wrote. i think we're going do that before i die. but it's a mammoth undertaking. >> rose: before i leave great conversation i will ask each of you, tell me why shakespeare... what is it for you that makes shakespeare shakespeare? >> for me it starts with a very sort of selfish desire for a workout in... and i mean in a sense that... i love shakespeare i love the language. but it's a... it's the most wonderful sort of workout for an

actor to... especially if... you know, to support my family i work in front of a camera more often but there is a there's something so muscular about... about doing a play in general of the same thing. but with shakespeare there's this added thing[lmh of... of st of... i don't know how you put it. there's the interpretation, there's the... the actual interpretation is much more muscular, especially for the clowns because what was written was so topical. the clowns were basically doing sort of... they were doing "late show" monologues for the elizabethan audience. so we have to reinterpret it and give it comic life that's still truth to feel the action of the

play and to ther inive the. and that's really... it's really... it's a challenge. yet you just learn all of these things that you really learn all of these things that you forgot which is how important it is to just sort ofrelax and make it related and be open to... and follow the material where it takes you. >> rose: oskar, i've asked you before but i'll ask you again. >> nothing human is alien to them. it's just remarkable the way that... the range of work, because he had to write for such a huge range of audience he speaks to private and public at the same time. he shows the way that romances are tied up with the politics of the state. it shows the interconnectedness of society in a way that our culture does an awful lot to try to segment andwi(& vulcanize and separate out people and separate out private experience from

public experience and he refuses to let it be separated he says it all belongs together. the things that you were talking about about the way that you come into a cast of shakespeare play where you meet all these people that's what happens in the story of a shakespeare play. the low people meet the high people; the high people meet the low people. they learn from each other, they struggle together and that's his vision of what a good life is& >> this is selfish also but i... there is something about... i never feel more sort of complete as human being than when i'm working ond" shakespeare. there's something about saying the words and hearing the words day after day that i think because so much of what he writes is about the unconscious and about... so it's as if all the layers of yourself start to

come together in these moments and even in this play which is so much about love i have never heard so many people just up and down the hallways of the dressing room wailing about relationships and romance and love and what they want and what they have and what they are dreaming about. >> rose: let me tell you my story. (laughs) >> whatever it is in the play that it gets into your... it gets in... it just infects you. in such an incredible way. >> well, he's the greatest poet playwright that has ever lived so for me it's about chasing that genius. that direct... a director can never get it all right and i'm a director who has done "two gentlemen of verona" three

times. who can claim that? (laughter) and i think to myself my chest... maybe if i... >> rose: you can't get it right. >> so for me anyway i just love the fact that it just keeps opening up and challenging you every time. >> thank you all, i'm looking for a card but here it is. here it is. as you like it, shakespeare in the park begins previews on june 5 and run until juneq&nh 30 thereabouts. "goo into the woods" runs from july 23 to august 25. thank you, great to see you. >> thank you, charlie. >> thanks very much. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time.

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