appearances on this program, they are robert hughes, the art critic and marvin hamlisch, the composer. >> the role of the os car is not to perform authoritarian act and say you must like this because i think so myself. it is to say in effect, come over here and look at this work of art or this exhibition of whatever from this, and let's see if it makes sense to you, in other words, you engaged in arguing the coheernls of your reactions and sensations in public to an audience whom you actually don't know. >> so i decided i will think about the bells of the college, which were -- >> that was actually on the soundtrack, just bells of the college. now, you live with that three or four days and go to the a and p and buy ice cream that becomes slowly but surely this. >> okay? now you go to laundry. >> rose: right, right. >> now i start thinking about barbra streisand which is the

most fantastic voice and thinking to myself, sh she sings those wonderful raw notes, okay. now i am writing raw notes. okay? and i start that. >> rose: will ferrell, zach ozark, jay roach, marcus samuelsson, an app appreciation of i do not hughes and marvin hamlisch when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: as the race possess the white house heats up this summer there is an even more contentious battle being waged for fictional 14th congressional district of north carolina. that is where the incumbent four term congressman cam brady find himself in the political fight of his life, the campaign is a

new film depicting that battle, any resemblance to mr. smith goes to washington purely coincidental, here is a look at the trailer. >> how is my hair? >> strong. feels strong. >> my hair could lift a car off a baby's head. >> absolutely. >> oh, here. >> ♪ taking care of business. >> education is our future. >> farmers are this nature's backbone. >> women, veterans, operators are this nation's backbone! >> cam brady will win his fifth term in congress simply by signing the registration ballot, it is one of the perks of running unopposed let's get this bad boy signed. >> hey. who is that guy? >> this is my dream, running for office. >> you are challenging our four term congressman, how do you expect to do that?

>> can you say that again? >> now that i am running for congress we will be under a lot of scrutiny, do you have anything you want to share with us? >> i took the lord's name in vein at school. >> is that it? >> i 20 the petting school and i -- a goat with my wiener. >> that guy is a weirdo, i will smoke that clown. >> we have some work to do. >> how are you doing? >> i hate to break it to you friend but your balloon is getting ready to pot and it is -- >> are you trying to trash talk me? >> your momma is like a vacuum cleaner, she sucks, she blows and gets laid in the closet, that's what it feels like. >> washington, d.c. is a mess. >> how do you say it is a mess in hebrew. >> donkey kong? >> you want a holy war little man? >> let me hear cam brady on 12! >> oh a star up a chinese -- >> >> i refuse to lose and i will

win! >> he has a lot of fight in him. >> what do you have there? is that a crossbow? ah! oh, black op down! >> gentlemen, that is my baby to kiss. >> you just punched a baby. >> is anyone asking how my hand feels like punching the iron jaw of that baby. >> rose: joining me the two candidates themselves, cam bray by is will ferrell and zach galifianakis. >> and jay roach, i am pleased to have all of them back at this table. welcome, great to see you here. >> thanks. >> rose: what is it, i think the film stars with ross perot's great quote mud has rules, wars has riewlz, politics has no rules. why are we doing a film about politics? >> well, i mean, the timing is

right for the upcoming election, first of all, i think that was kind of our startoff point. and then we are so inundated now with the media and the commercials and the race starts two years before, and it is just on going, it doesn't really leave, so i thought we thought that the timing was right. there hasn't been a movie like this in a while, that doesn't seem like a comedy. >> rose: is it a comedy? >> unfortunately it is. >> i looked at it as a documentary. >> rose: so to come together, you two sat together and said let's make a movie and let's get a director and let's find a script and -- >> well will kept standing out in front of my house. >> rose: how long has he been doing that. >> about 16 weeks he was out in the driveway. >> rose: you had nothing to do. >> i had my own occupy movement outside of zach's house and finally he said, what? what can i do? what is it? and i said please can we work together? >> rose: is that what he said?

>> we went to lunch and discussed it, really, is what happened, we kind of -- >> rose: discussed the idea of doing a movie about politics or doing a movie between us? with us together? >> originally, to be honest with you,. >> rose: yeah, do that. >> it is charlie, right? >> we original had -- >> rose: you can call me charles. >> dr. rose, we had the original idea was that it was going to take place in the boys in the world of boys pageants. >> rose: i don't believe a word of that. >> that is true, completely true. >> rose: boys pageants? >> the boy pageants circuit is not as known as the girl pageant circuit and we had talked about that but then somehow it evolved into a political movie. >> since jay got involved. >> rose: he is responsible. >> he made it legit, i think. >> it was actually adam mckay who first said let's do --

>> if you do these two southern characters why don't you do it about two southern politicians. >> rose: and sat down to write it? >> well, we all statistic down with adam mckay and the writers and they wrote it with shawn harwell and then we just kept talking. >> and you are all producers? >> yeah. >> rose: three producers here. >> there are like eight of us. i just got zach's name taken off. >> rose: why is that? >> it just came through. >> you are telling me now on the tv show? i thought this would be a good time to let you know. >> rose: you are not a producer anymore. >> have you ever had anybody walk off your set? >> rose: no, no, we need you. >> i will stay. >> rose:. >> we have hours of that stuff. >> rose: you can make two movies? >> rose: the reelection campaign. >> it started with a script and these guys and everything in the prep room and the writing room these guys come in and if there is kind of a gray zone where the writing and improv exists

simultaneously but then on the set, i shoot a little bit and i say, what else? and these guys just start going. >> jay did a really smart thing. we were in new orleans, you know, a couple of weeks, three weeks before shooting and just literally every day went through the script, section by section and we would read it out loud and then just start brainstorming and getting up on our feet and adding actual layers and -- >> i remember that trash talk thing happened in the middle of that. >> the way that will pulled zach in close and made him stay. >> now you go. just -- so what did cam believe in? >> three things. america, jesus. >> rose: jesus. >> and freedom. >> rose: ha, ha, ha, ha. >> which sounds really good and then you realize it doesn't make any sense. that is not a platform. >> rose: but it sells. >> it sells. >> yeah. >> so that is what cam believes in. >> what does your candidate believe in?

>> i think the character of marty hug twins is told what he believes in. he kind of gets a puppet master to -- in the powers that be kind of at first try to get him to be the message for the wealthy in this country and he kind of smells it out and doesn't go for it and he does have a heart and he does believe in things but at first his ego like a lot of people, they get in the political foray their ego takes over, like if someone came to me and said, hey, like they did to sarah palin, hey, zach, you want to be vice president i think my ego would go, yeah. >> you think you can do it? >> yeah, sure. >> i think that is what sarah palin did, i think it is human nature and the smart people, act like i am not qualified. you know what i mean? and smart people -- >> and all of your friend. >> guess what? i am going to run for vice president? >> you are? well that is what i said at first.

they said i can do it. ego takes over and you believe the hype, you believe it. >> rose: i can't imagine what it is like, i mean, you can imagine if you are a rock star, but to go out there and there is this adulation coming from crowds all the time, yet at the same time you pick up the paper the next day and people are saying the worst things about you have ever heard. so you are swinging from one side to the other. constantly. >> plus the cameras are everywhere now and it is very hard hot to make a misstep. it is very, very difficult. >> rose: every misstep is photographed or recorded. >> well, the mckaka incident. >> rose: every mistake. >> you know with a smart phone. >> gets on the internet. >> rose: and will, zach, you all have roots in north carolina, you have no roots in north carolina why did we let you in on this? >> i don't know what they were thinking. and, you know,, we shot in new orleans, weirdly, which --

>> rose: new orleans reminds you of north carolina. >> they were actually great and they thought there was a campaign going on, they would see the car and say, oh, i heard someone say whose -- i oh i think he is running for congress, like people actually thought we were running for congress. >> rose: why north carolina? >> that was -- >> rose:. >> that was from the east coast because they both have roots here. i think i was campaigning for south know the politics in south carolina are very, very dirty, they are money known to be dirty and the new guys, i think we all kind of figured out north carolina was more of a purple state, purple state, so that is why we chose it. >> rose: north carolina depends on who you talk to, but is, you know, is being contested, i mean the democrats think they can win and the republicans think they are likely to win. >> but the hispanic vote is what obama. >> it is growing, it is growing. >> yes. >> rose: he is spending a lot of time and the convention with is in north carolina. >> yes. >> rose: the convention is in north carolina.

>> are you going? >> rose: oh, sure. you want to come dow and be my co-anchor? >> i think we can hang out at go jangles. >> bo jangles. >> rose:. >> rose: is the chicken good. >> it's better that chick-fil-a, let's put it that way. >> bo jangles lets gay people like me in. >> rose: one at a time. let's look at a clip, this is where a cam phone numbers thanks to a salacious voice mail to an unsuspecting family. >> it is real bad. okay? i don't like those numbers at all. just one poll. those things aren't scientific. >> yes they are. all this is is science. this is math. but if you took it and put it on its axis this way -- >> look cam i am telling you right now it was the phone call, yes, yes way. >> no way. >> look at this, okay? 62 percent of the people that got asked liked you. okay? then the phone call

happened, then they asked the same question, now only 46 percent of people like you. run through it one more time. >> rose: can't be a very bright candidate. >> he wants to hear it all out first. >> rose: see if we can turn it upside down. >> look at it from all different angles. >> rose: but he has some instinctive intelligence -- >> yes, he is a showman,. >> rose: he understands entertainment. >> absolutely, and he knows how to give a great speech and he knows how to work, work a crowd, and i think at one point, early on, when he first started, he was someone who was a virtue, who was running for office for all of the right reasons but he lost sight of that. >> rose: do you like politics? >> i do, i like -- >> rose: you come from a political family in part. >> well my uncle ran for a congressman and -- >> rose: and professor --

would you run again? >> jesse helms. >> rose: north carolina that was a hard run. >> rose: and it was close. >> he was beating helms and jesse helms came out with a slogan, a greek guy in 1972 in north carolina, jesse helms came out with a slogan two weeks before the election and said both for jesse he is one of us. if you get the meaning. and that changed it. >> rose: one last one. this is where marty's campaign manager explains to him where he comes up short. >> we have 409 days before this district is 700,000 people decide if they like you or not. right now, quow your likability is at 26 percent. the focus group words that come up. >> up about you are odd! my, probably serbian. >> stays an old up. >> looks like the travel travelocity gnome. >> the first thing you have to do is win. >> i want to help the district, i love my home. it is just it all happens so fast.

>> listen, i think cam brady can be beaten but i don't believe you believe that. you know what? i am going to call your dad and tell him you don't have the rocks for this. >> you put your phone away, this might be hard for you to believe but this dog has a ton of fight in him. a ton of fight and when i get a scent, i hunt, brother, i hunt all day long. >> rose: here is what i want to know, where did you get the voice? >> i have been doing that character since high school, in wilkes bro north carolina and do it for my dad .. >> rose: what would you do for your dad. >> it was call the effeminate racist, and it just some how was funny. >> rose: it is. >> so i would do it for my dad. >> rose: would your dad laugh? >> uh-huh, uh-huh. my dad would laugh and a couple of kids in high school, the black kids would bump me in the hallway and knew this character would come out and i would say

these kind of racial things to them and they would just laugh, they knew i was making fun -- >> rose: speaking of politics would you see down to see brother frank kin, franken? >> no, no we are supposed to go to dc on tuesday to promote. >> rose: are we meeting with politicians then? >> i don't know, we should know. who knows, who knows. charlie -- we are going to kiss babies. >> rose: i want to be there if you do it in the room. with a camera. >> yeah, you guys are doing a terrible job. nice to meet you. congratulations. >> rose: do you come out of this movie saying this is so much fun we want to do this again? let's find another movie to do? we have got the right chemistry? we have got the right -- you know,. what do you look for? what would be the right thing to look for that you want to recapture? >> sexual tension. no. i mean -- >> rose: did you feel the sexual tension? >> you don't feel it in here?

>> between the four of us. >> rose: i know. >> i would love to work with zach again and with jay too. you know, like zach was saying if you share that same sensibility, it naturally feels like something you would want to continue. >> rose: but it is hard to find that. >> yeah, it is hard. yeah. i think it is. yeah. >> rose: and you never know where it comes from. you just have it? you feel it, you get there and there it is? or can you -- >> i think it comes from just a lot of it has to do with your upbringing a little bit, what made you laugh as a kid and that kind of keeps happening as an adult. the things that we laugh about can be quite childish, but that is what is so fun about it, you know,. >> i mean the irony of, this we talked about let's do a movie together and then we think of a premise where we are two competing characters who are rarely -- we are in i think four scenes together, literally and so it would be nice to do

something where we are actually in assistance together. >> yeah. >> longer. >> i mean -- >> rose: we are going to hollywood right now. >> do you feel the same or not? >> i need to move on. >> okay. >> really? >> yeah. >> rose: do you have any ambitions. >> i have other things to do. >> rose: like? >> chekhov, whoever that is. yes, check off wherever that is. >> i wish i said wherever that is. we are working with will and jay was the best work experience i have had, so -- >> rose: are you serious? >> the best. and i used to be a busboy in a -- >> rose: come on, now, a serious moment. i want to know what makes it the best experience. >> for me, i really judge it from -- there was no ego on the set whatsoever with these two gentlemen, and the was a lot of laughing and we were shooting in new orleans and it was a pretty great combination, so

that alone i mean just the laughing as simple as it is is that. so there was no like -- movie sets can be tense and hard, but there was none of that, really, at all. >> yeah, i mean we share that same collaborative spirit that it is just as long as it is good, everyone is okay. that's the thing when you feel it is working, everyone is kind of throwing in -- >> rose: jay, someone who looks at them and sees where they are in their career and what they do, do they have a different kind of stroke, so to speak in terms of comedy? >> yeah, strokes -- >> rose:. >> wrong word. >> but they each come at it differently and have a different vibe and what i like is that they are mitted to their character and the character is so different, they look so different and the energy is so different and it is a comedy likes conflicts, likes conflicts and also are just good and

keeping the ball in the air and just keeping each other going, and are very generous about how they keep the improv alive and things like that. >> rose: take daniel day-lewis playing abraham lincoln, you can imagine how much work went into that. >> he is hilarious. >> rose: and he hasn't been doing it since high school like me. >> i know. >> rose: you are the same character. >> yeah. >> rose: he hasn't been an effeminate racist. >> yes. he probably has one under his bel though. that guy, what does he do to prepare? >> rose: everything. everything, read everything. so my point is, when you do this. what is the effort of getting up for it? what is it that you do make this work? >> for me personally, it is not to over think it and to be as loose in your mind as you can be so you are not caught up on the minutia of worrying about that

kind of stuff for me, that is helpful. >> rose: is that true about comedy generally? >> it depends, it depends on certain people but for me that is -- don't over -- well for me it is like don't prepare. anything. >> rose: is this just a cop-out? >> it may be. i don't know. it could be. it could be. >> rose: does it work for you? >> i think it is that analogy of don't -- yeah, don't squeeze the bat too tight. >> rose: or a golf club or whatever. get the tension out. >> and obviously show up, you know, knowing your lines. >> rose: that would be good. >> yeah that one day i knew my lines, it was a great day. >> a good day. >> be prepared but at the same time be willing to throw the whe thing away and work off of each other and that sort of thing. >> rose: if you do what i do and when the two of you are going at it you just want to get the hell out of the way and just shut up and watch you and see where you are going. >> do you mind stepping off -- >> would you just take -- >> rose: i mean this would be your dream, i know. >> this whole thing -- if you

ever retire, god forbid. >> rose: god forbid. >> can you put it in your will i can take this -- >> rose: okay. >> rose: no, no, no. stop. we have a deal here. the next time i am not here -- i am in the middle east, you come do the show and he becomes the guest. would you both do that? >> yes. there you go. >> rose: that's a done deal. of course they will never want me back but that is okay. i will stay in the middle east. >> benjamin netanyahu? >> can we have some important geo political figure join us? >> yes who do we need? >> i like benji. >> benji? >> ben i didn't is a dog. >> benji. >> >> rose: who would you like? mohammed morsi? >> who is that mohammed morsi? >> the president of egypt. >> oh that's the new president. >> rose: vladimir putin. >> yes so i could do my terrible

joke that he has -- >> rose: what is it? >> the version of vladimir putin with gas. >> rose: oh, no. >> you are glad i am here putin. >> he would probably laugh at that. >> rose: the translator would be like, what? let me translate something else. this movie opens on august 10th, as always it is great to see you. now we have a date here for the next time i am away from here. >> it is a deal. >> rose: america, the world you have something to look forward to. >> a real treat. ly communicate to prime minister netanyahu the invitation is on the way. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: marcus samuelsson is here, his passion for food, for cooking and chasing flavors runs very deep.

as a young boy, he was inspired by his grandmother and taught him how to cook simple but masterful meals, ethiopian raised in sweden. >> he 1995 at 24 he became the youngest chef ever to receive a three star rating from "the new york times". he old the red rooster in 2010, it is an eclectic and soulful restaurant in harlem and now he has written a memoir, it is called "yes, chef", i am pleased to have him here at this table, back at this table. welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> rose: now, listen, this is what ruth said, such an interesting life, told with touching modesty and remarkable candor. what was the hardest candor for you? >> honesty. being honest. in the book, in a way that so much about cooking and so much about my life is about going for things, sometimes you think about it, but you go first, but

i wanted this book to be -- i wanted the read tore know more about me and how i think and why i think about these things, when they were done with the pages,. >> right there are so many books out there that i felt you know about this personality but reading them, it is almost like a victory lap only and i didn't want that. >> rose: you want to know first of all you want to know more than the biography and you want to know more taken the opinions. >> yes. >> rose: i mean what is it in the end? >> sometimes we don't even know. >> yes. >> rose: but you want someone who writes a memoir to dig deep to try to understand who they are. >> and. >> rose: sometimes they use it as a catharsis to do that. >> that's my point about this. on the book tour, i said to people, with you publish a book or not, write a memoir, for yourself. because it is such a plate way of -- you notice and you are repeating things yo you should u should be repeating and when you write it down it is like here we go again, i shouldn't be doing

that and it is such a great way of being honest but also thinking about like i miss the fact that my father and i didn't have great meals together when i was an adult, i wanted to take him to those restaurants in trance that i worked here, red rooster in new york, i wanted so much his signing off on that. and there are so many moments that you can't -- that you wish you could have done differently and take back, and, you know, it made me cry sometimes when i wrote the book. >> rose: i mean, same thing is true of me, just a personal moment for a second, knowing what i have done with my life, how would i like to set that across the table and talk to my father and recorded it for everybody, whether it was ever used anywhere ever again, but just to do that, i learned stories about him, many, the second thing is never take -- i didn't -- he went to normandy the week after the dramatic and successful investigation,

invasion but take him to normandy where i have gone because i am a franco file and all of that stuff .. >> and also the emotional experiences with men of that generation wasn't that often. my father showed his emotions to he by showing me how to fish. >> rose: right. >> or taking me to the library and saying this is for you, all of us by giving me a book. so he was emotional, and loved me he gave you jame james b. ol. >> this is a man that trained me to be a black man of the 21st century from rural working class sweden. >> rose: and why -- i mean, he just knew? >> he always knew that as a man that, especially as a black man and as a young boy says our journey is different, how we react toward things, anger, we talked about anger a lot, a lot

of -- talked about that in the book. he talked about rejection a lot, they will come, they come for everyone, it is just not yours, you are not the only one who is going to be rejected and he always told me you are going to be rejected more in life than someone will say something positive and boy was he right, cooking is all about that, right? going on the professional journey is all about that. so -- but also, you know, as an adopted person, adopted child, my mother in ethiopia was the one that sacrificed the most. >> i truly wanted the read tore understand at the beginning of the book about that savannah, that red clay in ethiopia, that walk my mother did with me and my sister walking for 75 miles to find me a hospital, and that was out of sacrifice, she passed away, but we sure arrived. but also about random luck, there is a nurse in the hospital that takes us in and sets us up for adoption, so i am not here

nor is anyone because i have done everything so great. sometimes you are a lucky and sometimes you work really, really hard, you are surrounded by love, it is really a love story towards the family, and i became -- that's how i became a chef and that's how i can be sitting here in front of you. we live in a society where there is a lot of me, me, me and writing my memoir may first look like another narcissistic indefer, endeavor, it is the opposites it is about how can you share. >> rose: how did you and your sister wind up in sweden. >> my parents wanted to have another child, couldn't have it, so they wanted to adopt, they first -- they got a boy from bolivia, but the grandmother in bolivia said you have to come back every year to show the boy is doing good and i mother said absolutely not. >> she would have agreed on that we wouldn't have been adopted. my sister has tuberculosis and

we got to the hospital, survived tb and eventual got adopted to sweden. but it was a lot of different things, first we had to survive tuberculosis and then the nurse took us in, there are a thousands of kids in the hospital in africa and thousands of kids that don't have parents so the fact that we -- we were picked, that is just lucky, that is something out of my hands but extremely grateful for sghiet tell me about your sister. >> linda is, she is an amazing person, she was obviously the person in life i idolized the most, she was 18 months older than me so whatever she was doing i wanted to do it, in cooking you have to be in mass line and feminine. >> a lot of that i get are my sister and grandmother. my sister was always me talented in in terms of me for talented things she could just paint and just the sing. and i had to work on all of

those things or cooking. >> rose: how does your femininity side express itself in cooking. >> oh completely when you cook you have to be ever people it in side that is in touch with ingredients, sometimes male cooking can be very much look at me, look what i can do and turn this carrot to look like a scallop and it can be blue, but you just want a good carrot and of the season, that's feminine side. >> rose: just to give you a good carrot. >> it is just a carrot. >> rose: yes. but the male side wants to -- >> look at me, look what we are doing over here, and you need both in in modern cooking there is space for both but all great chefs, the great ones, influenced by the feminine decide and the masculine side. >> rose: so you get to sweden and how does the cooking take place for you. >> with my grandmother helga, she was a maid and eventually became a cook and all she knew was cooking and taking care of garden and i just felt comfortable there, she told us

how to pickable herring and preserve the blue berries, how to roast a chicken and make chicken dumpling it is next day, she had her own kitchen factory with us and being with her and reasoning to her stories about making hat balls, snelling cardaman and killing a chicken, some were scared flew did you love it? >> i loved its all of it but also i loved hanging with her, right? it wasn't just cooking but also being seen, being cared about, being allowed to taste, that is what the grandmother love was really about so when i came to cooking school, little did i know that i no uh how to clean fish, i knew how to butcher a chicken. >> rose: because of your grandmother. >> because of that. >> rose: you also have an amazing work ethic. >> yes. >> rose: where does that come from? is that from her or some where smells. >> i think, somewhere else? >> i think it is a combination, my parents, my father and my

grandmother. but also damage i sense a lot of the work is due to the responsibilities i have. i have been lucky enough to have a conversation with food with the public for many years, people don't have time, there are tough times out there, people are going to see us, we should curate and give them an experience that is incredible. and that is not easy. and you have to work really hard for it and cooking humbles you, people humble you, but we are servants and we are lucky enough to have an extremely successful business. but we can't -- the minute we take that for granted, lights out and i respect that,. >> rose: be vigilant in protecting what it is that got you there? >> absolutely, and as a person of color you have to do it a little bit different, the stopping and dance is different and you have to respect it more. >> rose: for harlem, for you to open a restaurant there meant what to do? >> everything, i think, you know, when 9/11 happened we all reacted to it, responded to it

differently, right? i was cooking and 9/11, the week before i was cooking at window for the world and it just after that, it just affected me it is like marcus, what can you contribute to this great city that is authentic and yours? and looking at harlem, it was a huge food -- and changing the footprint of dining, and having people come up to harlem and engaged the way they would do in any other community the way they would do on 23rd street, not just getting off the tourist bus and back on, you haven't experience add minute when you do that, you can't say you have been to harlem, now with red rooster and with having neighbors such as sylvia woods, the great sylvia woods who just passed away and there is no strip or place that people can go, they can go over to the museum, you can go over to the palo and come back to the rooster, buy flowers at the flower shop and engage in this community the way you do

anywhere else. >> rose: were the things you said that i do not want to do i do not want to make this mistake. i am going up there and i want to create something special and be a part of the community, i want to be a place that gives expression to the community. >> yes. >> rose: i want to bring people to the minute so they can share it. >> a community and i wanted to create an experience where the community didn't look in and say that restaurant is so -- into. >> then who is them? restaurant only works when a staff, 70 percent of our staff is from harlem. the restaurant only works when all of those three new york -- is is there. and that means a little bit different in harlem too. we have 19 percent unemployment in this booming community. among african-americans, 39 percent unemployment. so i am, i have hired 110 people in my restaurant. i have 110 employees. 70 percent of them come from harlem. that means that the restaurant is also there to lower

unemployment. it has a real meaning in that community but it talks about aspirations and we can do it too. >> ro: when you write a memoir do you come to some kind of accounting of your life as it is when you write it and therefore ask yourself where do i want to go? where do i want to be and what is next? >> yes. well, i haven't --ell, what is next for me is obviously develop more inclusive and deeper, better relationship with my daughter. when i look at what has been missing in this journey is obviously i put my profession so far ahead of my personal relationship, so just the fact that i could get married, the fact that i allowed that side to even open up to me is very new. like a chef doesn't have -- for me i never had sort of a normal relationship with anything else but food. i realize it is my first language, and this is something that as a man, a asses a person

i am working towards. >> rose: the book is called "yes, chef", a memoir, thank you. >> thank you so much. >> rose: good to see you. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: robert hughes died on monday, after a long illness, he was 74. australian writer was perhaps the most influential art critic of the late 20th century. his work changed the way we think about and look at art. he was sophisticated and cosmopolitan and brash and high-spirited, he could inject invigorating energy and relevance to the heartiest of subjects he once said so much of art criticized decadence, not not so up, it is deck, deck democratic, it is part of the progress. >> he is programs best money for his book and television series the stock of the new .. about modern art. his other works include a memoir, histories of rome and barcelona as well as 1987 study of the settlement of australia,

the fatal shore, in 1999, he almost died in a car accident, but continued to write despite failing health. robert hughes appeared on this show several times throughout the years. here is a look back at some of those conversations. >> is your best talent, skill, intellect your capacity to write? >> yes. i am a writer before i am a critic. >> rose: that is my point. it is your gift as a writer that is more important in your impact than your knowledge of art? >> i would hope so. in that, you know, i mean i think you have to to have knowledge to write about anything. but you see i wanted to get away from being viewed solely as an art critic and i did that with i think with -- shore, i think it is very important, this is something i talked with alan quite a bit, quite a lot before you are a critic of anything or a specialist in any field you have to be a writer first,

otherwise it -- >> rose: you can't express what you know? >> you can't really express what you know or you can't find what you know. >> rose: you once said as an art critic if you don't understand or approach -- then you are ill lit, illiterate rat. >> yes, in the same way if you a literary critic and can't deal with dickens or a music critic you can't deal with beethoven you are illiterate, his genius is of that order and he is a wonderful example of very high art at the same time can be intention i are democratic how it can appeal to, you know, the deepest and widest levels of the human psyche. >> rose: yes. >> and do it in a way that cuts across all barriers of class and all that sort of thing. he is marvelous this doing that. he has a kind of almost sheep walking capacity to go through the formal bearers with of

communication. >> his time was what? >> his time was, well, he lived in an enormous age by the standard of the time. he was born in 1746 and died in 1798. >> rose: it was a great period of time to live. >> it was a great period overtime to live. the average life of a farm worker was 37. >> rose: yes. >> at that time. and people died from no -- from diseases which just wouldn't even put you in a hospital today. and so to live through to 82 is to be hail and hearty is something of an achievement, it is like a triumph over death contained in one man, and -- i mean he wa he wasn't the only mf his time to live so long but it was not common. and there he was workingight up to the end. in fact one of the last things that he did was a little chalk drawing of this old character with a beard, stumping along on

two sticks and at the top there is inscribed the words i am still learning. and he was insatiable and indefatigable and a wonderful guy. >> rose: and you went through, what few people should ever have to go through, which is you were -- tell me what happened. >> i was in a very, very bad head on car crash and i nearly died and i was stuck i in the australian desert, great norman highway there for about five hours before they were able to cut me out of the wreck, i was afraid i was going to be burnt alive, very afraid, and then i was in a coma for five weeks and then i was in a hospital for months and months, and having come through that, i realized that to the out world has no use for me so -- >> rose: no matter what the critic says you can say to the critic, i have been through

worse. >> i have been through worse. >> with all of the cliches about terror and desolation and near death come home to roost, you realize actually that if you can get beyond those, life can be incredibly sweet and that is what happened to me. >> rose: explain. >> because the alternative is so retched. >> rose: well, of course. i mean as you get it near it you realize how great life can be? >> yes you do. >> rose: and are you praying and saying god give me. >> no, i am a complete atheist i will have to tell you, i didn't have any near death experiences. >> re: this whole notion about there are no atheists in a foxhole never turned out to be true. >> i was in a foxhole, very deep and the atheist didn't see anything to alter his theological opinions. i mean, i suppose looking back on it it would have been symmetrical if i found the tunnel of softly glowing light

at the, and jc at the end of all of the mystics write about in their books, nothing of that sort happened to me, i mean, i experienced absolutely nothing except desolation, pain, and a certain amount of hope and then after that, tremendous support and love there my trends. it wasn't the love offed to that gave me through and gave me support, it was the love of friends and family. so, you know, you sometimes have tears of reference and sometimes you have tears of fear. >> rose: you once said that even if you feel you should keep steady at funerals of relatives. >> yes. >> rose: you should weep? >> that's right. >> rose:. >> that's right. you are to be able to weep in a museum. >> rose: can you define what it is that makes great art for you? >> yes. intensity. intensity and coherence. now, don't ask me what i mean by intensity or by coherence.

the -- there is actually some outfit that goes directly, in some sort of way goes directly to your central nervous system. it get through all of the incrustations of habit and all of the things that you have seen before. i don't mean that you live in a continuous state of astonishment, but you live in the hope of such a state. i mean obviously not every work of art does this to you. i can name others too, many others. but when you hit upon or as we run into an image which speaks with that degree of directness and that degree -- even if you don't understand its finer

points, you can't say no. you just have to give in to it. >> rose: robert hughes, dead at 74 years old. marvin hamlisch died on tuesday after a brief illness, he was 68. he composed the music for broadway shows like a chorus line and the good-bye girl, and for films including the sting and the way we were. he won three academy awards, four grammys, two emmys two, golden globes and one tony and made it all look easy and as he tells us, in a way it was, he reflected in his memoir, growth the time i could play the piano i remembered trying to write tunes, they were in my head and i would just sit down and start noodling the next thing i knew i had written a melody. here are excerpts of his conversations on this program. >> well i tell you what i would hike to talk about if you don't mind because people ask me question, about the way we work, how do you write a song? how the does it happen? i will use

this as an example. i think as the pretty good example. >> rose: okay. >> that film started out at a college, outside of a college, okay? and how did you be et the melody? what happens. what happens to me i start out by deciding what i i am not going to write, i am not going to right a march, hey, everybody, that is the way we are i am not going to do a waltz. so i decide i am going think about the bells of the college, which were -- [notes. [. >> that was actually on the soundtrack, just bells of the college, and you live with that three or four days and go to the a and p and buy ice cream and you have it in your mind. that becomes slowly but surely this. >> okay? now you go to laundry. you go -- >> rose: right, right. >> now i start thinking about barbara vice stand which is the most fantastic voice and thinking to myself, she sings those wonderful raw notes, now i am writing raw notes. okay? and i start that.

now i also happen to know, you know, what the title of the piece is, so all i now need is to put in the title, the way we were. that's how that was written. a song like one from chorus line was probably one of the easiest songs to write because the lyrics, we had the title, one, we love the idea of having all of these in the chorus and all one, michael bennett said i have to have a stopping, a beat where you go, boom and the hats come off so i already have one, boom, to start with that, then, that becomes that, one. >> so i mean, that is how -- it is like building a picture in your mind and slowly but surely translating it into the language of music.

>> rose: what is it about film composing? because some would say, marvin, i know you made this turn away from away from horowitz, you had a chance. >> that's true. >> rose: you could have been a great whatever. >> i doubt it. >> you had a shot at it. >> runner-up. >> rose: if you said give me a big list of possible prodigies marvin may have been on the list otherwise you would not have been the youngest writer, whatever. >> right. >> rose: you didn't like it, your you were fearful. >> inner vows. >> rose: you said i am going to live a living death here, anxiety. >> my middle name was maalox, i was the mr. antacid, i literally before a concert at juilliard, remember you turn 11 years old and walking into a room and seeing your veins, looking at you wrote the play, i knew that was not for me but i tell you what i did learn and this is important i think to everyone out here who have children who are studying whatever. even if you not going to become a horowitz panned two that root it is important to learn the

basics because without that you can't conduct with barbra streisand and can't show what you do at the piano. being a good pianist helps me so much to demonstrate what it is that i have written. and i can't -- i wouldn't be a good accompanist so all of those things i never looked back at the juilliard experience which is a great school inew york city, a brilliant school, and i am very lucky, yes i may not have gone the route that they and my teachers wanted me to go but i used everything i learned. >> rose: were your parents disappointed? >> my father was disappointed he is have i have enna, my father was disappointed until i will be honest with you -- i would be at home and a friend of mine would come over from juilliard a brilliant pianist and play something and my father would go, ah! and my mother would go, ah, my father changed actually, i mean he always loafld me don't get me wrong, but he started to see what i was doing had merit,

really, during that one fabulous year where i had the way we were and then chorus line because chorus line is using what i can do on all four engines, you know, you are not in neutral on that kind of show and i think my departure understood then that i didn't waste the time. you know what i mean? i mean when you sit down and writing a rock 'n' roll song, and have a father who has seen you go through juilliard, you think, well, you know,, obviously, what did you need juilliard for? >> but you do. you do. and it has been very exciting for me. >> when i said, obviously you were very good and not nobody is going to be another horowitz. >> no. >> rose: on the scale, to match that, but early on you pelle into doing film scores. >> yes. >> rose: as well. >> right, right dloo was that satisfying for you in can you make the case that that is -- >> i tell you. it really depends on the film. i tell you why. and, you know, i could by you that highfalutin answer which is

yes, art, art. >> rose: yes. >> the truth is this. when a film comes out if it is a hit film and it is a film people are going to hear and whatever, then -- and as the film you loved doing, i mean, sophie's choice, which i adored doing, then you feel like you have really done something really wonderful and extra, and it meaning to you, if a film comes along and you kill yourself and do it and just opens and closes i mean, open, over, then the problem is, not so much you don't think you have done a good job but you realize it is gone, it is like who is going to go up and say excuse me i want to hear music from a film that -- it is all very different. >> rose: can you give us something from good-bye girl? >> sure. this is a stopping toward the end of the piece. this is a song toward the end of the piece. ♪ ..

>> rose: marvin hamlisch, dead at age 68. captioning sponsored by rose communications

captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> ♪ i think i'm home i think i'm home how nice to look at you again ♪ along the road along the road ♪ anytime you want me you can find me living right between your eyes, yeah ♪ oh, i think i'm home oh, i think i'm home. ♪ >> today on cook's country, bridget shows chris how to make classic chocolate cream cupcakes at home. next, jack challenges chris to a tasting of hot cocoa. and finally, julia updates an

american favorite-- texas sheet cake. that's all right here on cook's country. >> cook's country from america's test kitchen is brought to you by dcs by fisher and paykel. america's cooks rely on innovation and culinary precision. dcs by fisher and paykel, offering premium indoor and outdoor kitchen appliances. viva towels get between you and tough messes. cooking.com, an online retailer for the cooking enthusiast. if it's not in your kitchen, try ours. chore boy, scrubbers for tough jobs. chore boy leaves your pots and pans clean inside and out. and by valley fig growers, imagining the possibilities with california figs. >> here's the question of the day-- what is a cupcake? well, in the 19th century it meant two very different things. cakes that were measured using cups, like a cup of butter, two cups of sugar, three cups of flour, and four eggs.