captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> woodruff: a massive immigration reform plan survived a first day running the congressional gauntlet, but it faces determined opposition in the weeks to come. good evening, i'm judy woodruff. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. on the "newshour" tonight, we examine the politics and the sticking points over border security and more. >> woodruff: then, two takes on the story of the ohio women kept captive for a decade. ray suarez gets the latest on the arraignment of the suspect and looks at the road ahead for the victims. >> brown: we return to yesterday's congressional hearing about the raid on the u.s. mission in benghazi, libya to sort through charges and counter-charges about what happened there. >> woodruff: from the west african nation of senegal, fred

de sam lazaro reports on efforts to curb a painful rite of passage for millions of girls every year. >> each year, the world health organization says up to three million girls in africa are subjected to genital mutilation, and up to 140 million live with its consequences. >> brown: and we talk with marcia coyle about her new book, an inside account of the landmark decisions from the roberts court. >> this is a group of justices thating a capitol hill, they do like each other. and they work well. it's very collegial court. it's not 94 beans in the bottle. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪

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foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: comprehensive immigration reform plan faced its first major tests today in the u.s. senate, and emerged pretty much intact. for supporters, it was a hopeful beginning to the drive to pass the first major immigration overhaul bill since 1986. the front line of the immigration fight is now the senate judiciary committee, where mark-up began this morning on a bi-partisan bill. illinois democrat dick durbin: >> this is our chance, in this hearing room, to write an immigration bill for the 21st century, for america and its future.

we've come together, we've reached an agreement, and we've compromised and i think we've come up with a good work product. >> woodruff: durbin is one of so-called "gang of eight" senators who wrote the bill. in its current form, it runs 844 pages, and would provide a pathway to citizenship for an estimated 11 million undocumented people now in the country. the process would take up to 13 years and applicants would have to pay a fine and pass a criminal background check, among other things. but the committee's ranking republican, chuck grassley of iowa, said the bill merely revisits past mistakes. >> it falls short of what i want to see in a strong immigration reform bill, so you will hear me say many times that we shouldn't make the same mistakes that we made in 1986. you'll hear me say many times that we ought to move ahead with a bill that does it right this

time. >> woodruff: many of the 300 amendments submitted so far are focused on border security. the bill already calls for improvements to the existing border fence and other so-called triggers, before the revamped immigration system takes effect. but grassley said the triggers are too weak. he wanted the government to demonstrate effective control of the border for six months, before considering anyone for legal status. texas republican john cornyn joined in. >> this is really a confidence- building measure, border security if it does not work as advertised, we would have failed in our responsibility, we will not have solved the problem. >> woodruff: opponents of that amendment said in reality, such strict additions to the measure would mean denying citizenship indefinitely. in the end, republicans lindsey graham of south carolina and jeff flake of arizona, both

members of the gang of eight, voted with majority democrats to defeat the amendment, 12 to six. democrats did accept other changes. one calls for 90% of would-be border jumpers to be stopped along the entire mexican border, not just in high risk sectors. but bill supporters said some of the amendments clearly amount to poison pills, including a proposal allowing members of same-sex couples to sponsor foreign spouses and others increasing visa eligibility for high-skilled workers. >> there are many who would want to kill this bill. i would ask my colleagues, if you don't agree with everything, be constructive, we are open to changes. >> woodruff: the mark-up could go on for two weeks, shifting the capitol's focus away from gun control and fiscal battles, and putting the fight over immigration reform front and center.

>> brown: we walk through some of the contentious debate now with two reporters following the

process to this particular reform motion? it seems -- i should say why is it more important than this time than usual? >> well, it's more important because the last time the senate took up immigration preform it was in 2007 and the negotiating group literally came to a massive deal behind closed doors and then put it on the senate floor within hours, maybe a day or so asking colleagues to vote for this very complex bill and senators felt cut out of the process and as if they didn't have enough time to review the bill before supporting it. so republicans were very clear with the group, the gang of eight this time saying you need to put this through regular order or you're not going to get even a consideration from us unless the process is fair and open. so that's why in this case just

because it's history on immigration, the way things were done several years ago, that's why it's so important to the process now that it's conducted through regular order. >> brown: brian bennett, as we've seen, the main focus is over security at the border. explain the key ways that are being raised here about how that should be dealt with. >> well, so the gang of eight came together and put together what they consider to be a strong border security package that has to go into place within ten years for any of the people who are legalized to be able to become citizens and that border security package would spend about $4.5 billion, maybe up to $6.5 billion on border security and increase surveillance and do a number of things like that. so republicans on the committee

who opposed those measures tried to change it. senator grassley, for example, wanted a change so that the border security would have to be met before anyone was legalized. >> brown: they talked about effective control of that border. is that well defined? >> it is and it isn't. the border control currently has no definition of effective control and there were percentages to different sectors and the border control says if the high risk sector comes out of the border it has to be 5% effective control. so the goal is to receive 90% effective control. >> brown: which means now patrolling more of the border, more areas? >> yeah, instead of just three sectors as was initially put into the deal, he successfully had the bill changed to include all sectors along the southwest border. >> brown: now, carrie, when you look at this going forward here, how set in place are our senators. we're talking about specific

issues, but what about senators? where's the focus of the action? >> well, on the committee if we're just to look at this narrow group right now, there's senator hatch who is viewed as a persuadable senator, someone who could possibly come on board and support the bill out of committee. the democrats are very focused on him and wanting to get him as well as, of course, the the other two republicans in the gang of eight who it is on the judiciary committee. so we'll see a lot of attention paid to senator hatch. he voted with the gang of eight with democrats on some amendment which is show maybe he's more amenable to it. after the committee, off group of about two dozen republican senators who break into sort of different tears in terms of their likelihood of supporting it that the gang of eight is focused on trying to get. they want 70 plus votes and that means as many as two dozen senators could come on board if they lose a couple democrats. so there's a big pull of people

here, but a lot of the senators who are in the senate right now did not vote or were not here in the senate six years ago. so this is a new group and could be unpredictable. >> brown: so brian bennett, you're looking at these other issues as well. the issue really is how many of these amendments might peel away votes, right? what other key issues should we be looking for? >> they're looking closely at how many people qualify for this program and their efforts on the republican side to try to reduce the number of people who would qualify for the legalization program. and really the members of the gang of eight are going to try to beat that back and make sure it -- enough people are able to qualify for the program. another thing to look at is how it defines the workplace programs. so you have a requirement in the bill that lifts the number of high-skilled visas, but there's some senators who would like to have even more so that's going to be a point of contention as well. >> brown: carrie, we mentioned

in judy's piece the same-sex couples matter that may come up. what other things are you watching? >> i'm certainly watching that amendment. if the chairman senator lahey refuses to offer it it could come up as early as tuesday. senator schumer and another leader of the gang of eight told reporters that that is the one amendment that keeps them up at night so clearly he is worried. >> a lot of democrats are worried about this because they're being caught between between two interests, one making the bill as bipartisan as possible and getting it through the senate then gay rights advocates who are intent on trying to get this. they believe it's an equality issue and want in the there but they're being forced to choose because republicans are saying if that amendment is attached they will walk and this will certainly hobble immigration if not derail it. >> brown: all right, we will continue to follow. care prix budoff brown and brian bennett, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: still to come on

the "newshour": examining new details in the cleveland kidnappings and helping the victims cope with trauma. plus, finding the facts in the benghazi story; abandoning an age-old tradition in africa and offering a close-up view of the robert's court. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: the boston police commissioner told congress today that the f.b.i. never passed along russian warnings about tamerlan tsarnaev, before the boston bombings. edward davis testified at a house hearing that police did not know the bureau checked out tsarnaev when he visited russia last year. the investigation was later closed. davis said he would like to have known, but he conceded it might not have changed anything. >> if we knew everything that we know now-- absent the blast, or before the, without the blast being involved in it-- but if we knew all of these things that have come out since then we we'd have taken a hard look at these individuals. but at this point in time, i can't say that when we knew things that we would've done anything differently.

>> sreenivasan: tamerlan tsarnaev ultimately died in a shoot-out with police. today, there was word that he's been buried at an undisclosed location near worcester. that followed a week-long search for a community near boston that would accept the remains. federal prosecutors in new york have announced what may be the biggest a.t.m. heist ever, affecting dozens of countries. cyber-criminals drained $45 million from cash machines around the world, after they hacked a database of debit cards. prosecutors described the gang as a virtual criminal flash mob and said some took pictures of themselves waving wads of cash in manhattan. seven people are under arrest in the u.s. gunmen in pakistan attacked a political rally today and abducted the son of a former prime minister-- the latest violence before saturday's nationwide elections. ali haider gilani is running for a provincial assembly seat for the ruling pakistan people's party. he's the son of ex-prime minister yousuf raza gilani, who was forced out of office last summer. the attack and abduction happened in multan, in the southern punjab province.

two of gilani's bodyguards were killed during the abduction. in neighboring bangladesh, another fatal accident hit the country's troubled garment industry overnight. a fire broke out at a factory in the capital city dhaka killing eight people, including the factory director. the fire engulfed the lower floors of the 11-story factory which had closed for the day. people still inside suffocated on poison gases as they ran down the stairs. the fire came two weeks after a garment building collapsed in dhaka. the death toll there grew to nearly 1,000 today. for the first time in more than five decades, americans are spending less on prescription drugs. that finding came today from a pharmaceutical market research firm the i.m.s. institute for healthcare informatics. the institute pointed to a surge of new, cheaper generic drugs. it also said consumers have been putting off doctor visits and drug refills to save money. first-time claims for unemployment benefits have hit a new, five-year low.

the labor department said today that layoffs are now back to pre-recession levels. despite that news, wall street took a break from its ongoing rally. the dow jones industrial average lost 22 points to close at 15,082. the nasdaq fell four points to close at 3,409. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to judy. >> woodruff: and we turn again to the shocking story in cleveland of three women held captive and abused for a decade. today, the man accused in the case appeared before a judge. ray suarez has the latest. >> all rise. >> suarez: ariel castro kept his head bowed and buried throughout his early morning appearance in cleveland municipal court. it was his first public appearance since he was arrested monday in the kidnapping of three women-- amanda berry, gina dejesus, and michelle knight. all had been held captive in castro's cleveland home since their separate disappearances between 2002 and 2004.

prosecutors said today the former school bus driver repeatedly beat and sexually assaulted the women. >> this child kidnapper operated a torture chamber and private prison in the heart of our city. the horrific brutality and torture that the victims endured for a decade is beyond comprehension. >> suarez: "the new york times" reported today that, according to a police document, the women were chained in the basement for years before finally being moved to the second floor. it also said knight told police she'd been impregnated by castro on multiple occasions and that each time, he starved and punched her until she miscarried. castro did not enter a plea today to the four counts of kidnapping-- one for each of the women plus berry's six-year-old daughter, conceived in captivity and to three counts of rape. his bond was set at $8 million. $3 million more than the prosecution requested. after the proceedings, his

public defender said her client will likely be kept isolated. >> i would imagine he will be in a single cell, and i would imagine he will be under a suicide watch observation unit. >> suarez: castro's brothers, pedro and onil, also appeared in court on unrelated misdemeanor charges. they were later released from custody. authorities say they knew nothing about the women being held abducted and held captive. the county prosecutor also said this afternoon he may seek the death penalty against castro for his alleged role in the multiple miscarriages. matthew dolan is covering this story for the "wall street journal" and he joins us from cleveland. matthew, welcome. does ohio law specify in all cases that if you are actively ending a pregnancy in this way you might be open to charges of murder? or is that a matter of prosecutorial interpretation? >> i think it's unclear at this

point. the prosecutor read us a detailed statement today, but he declined to take any questions from reporters. this is certainly a sensitive issue. the entire issue of the miscarriages really had not been released by police before. we obtained a confidential police report you cited earlier last night and published some of those details that talked about the miscarriages that allegedly came at the hands of mr. castro. >> suarez: also in this afternoon's news conference, the prosecutor indicated that they were going to back off the family for a while. does that indicate to you that they've got what they need for the time being and simply don't want to bring the pressure to bear of that kind of deposing that it might cause? >> it's a very difficult and delicate situation both for authorities and the families. they were initially debriefed after they escaped from the home and it looks as though

prosecutors and police were able to establish some initial information about the conditions of their captivity and even about how they were first ensnared, allegedly, by mr. castro. but they are convinced that because of the length of the captivity that they really need time to heal on their own and so both public officials and law enforcement authorities have asked the media really not to make repeated attempts to interview these women while they spend some time with their families. some of them have been away from their families for a decade. so just getting to know family members again and feeling safe is critically important. >> suarez: details have come to light over the past day that are said to come from the contents of a letter written by ariel castro. in your reporting, have you been able to substantiate the existence of this letter or its contents? >> no, we have not been able to substantiate those reports. so far we know that some 200 items were taken from the home during a search by both the

f.b.i. and local authorities. but so far police have not detailed what was taken from the home and so we really don't know much about this alleged letter other than what some news reports have said. we'll certainly see more as the search warrants and the inventory of what investigators found are returned to the courts >> suarez: police have made up -- say they've made up much of the timeline and the story in their charging documents from statements from the women and alongside them are stories from the neighborhood. have we been able to substantiate whether and when those three women were able to move about, were able to leave the building at all? >> well, we do know this, at least according to the women's accounts to authorities they were only allowed out of the home twice and that was only to go to the garage in the rear of the property. only two of them were allowed to go at a time.

it's unclear who exactly went to the garage and when they did go to the garage they had to wear disguises that included wigs. so there are other reports out there from neighborhood residents and other witnesses that say that they may have seen very suspicious activity, including women in the yard at various points over recent years. but police insist that they only had two calls to the house over the last decade and neither of those calls were related to calls supposedly from witnesses describing women in distress. >> suarez: matthew, before we let you go, do we know when ariel castro will be back in court? >> what we do know is that it's typical that within about 30 days or so mr. castro typically would be returned to court for an official arraignment. at that period he may offer to enter a plea, which he did not do today. but what happens also is that

that the city prosecutor's office that handled the case initially will eventually turn that over to the county prosecutor who spoke today and he will take the case to the garage. so we expect that within some period of time, either before the actual arraignment or shortly after that the grand jury will act in some way and decide whether or not to act on these more severe charges that the prosecutor said that he's exploring today. >> suarez: matthew dolan of the "wall street journal," thanks for joining us. >> sure, my pleasure. >> suarez: now more about the victims and what we may be able to learn from past cases and abuses. dr. frank ochberg is a clinical professor of psychiatry at michigan state university. he's a former associate director of the national institute of mental health and an expert who has written extensively on the effects of trauma, including post-traumatic stress syndrome. and, doctor, as we've heard, these women were not only kept confined but physically abused,

sexually abused over the years. what do they need right now in the short term. how do you treat a patient like this? >> one thing also is they've been denied a mother all that time and i don't know who their therapists are going to be but the therapist would not dig right into the worst that we've heard about. he would establish some comfort, a chance to take these young women as they are and i think it's very important for them to have a maternal presence. >> suarez: as horrific as elizabeth's smart story was, she was only gone nine months. we're talking about up to ten years in these cases and in the case of two of the women, missing major life transitions: finishing high school, moving from teenagerhood to adulthood. when a captivity has been this

as long as, are there particular differences that arise when treating a case like that? it's almost half their lives. the. >> that's right, ray. and it's through important periods, it's times when you develop a chance to know who you are as a student, to create friends, to be in a normal give-and-take family. so it's important to restore that kind of a milieu and trust. so far some of the things that we've seen are encouraging: laughter, joy at being reunited, a sense of what freedom means. but we're also hearing that we don't want to overinterview them we don't want them to define their lives as those women who were captured through that period of time.

they have their own personalities, their own positive attributes, they have to interact and i think wety t public have to have a sense of leaving them alone but also rooting for them and hoping for the best for them. remember, there are a lot of kids who have been raised in war-torn countries, who've gone through tremendous changes. they've seen parents killed. me and my colleagues live in a world of extreme trauma. people do recover from these kind of events. >> suarez: i'm glad you mentioned children, doctor, because in this case we have a child who was born into this captivity and almost imprisoned in the house in which she came into the world. does that offer special challenges? >> it certainly does. and i wonder what kind of mothering that child received from her teenaged mother. now, she could have gotten the

milk of humankindness-- literally and figuratively. there could have been a bond. and that bond might be a positive thing for all of them. we don't know. we have to hope for the best. ray, i want to make a point also and if i can make it now it's that we pay so much attention to a case like this because it's unusual. it involves children being taken out of their homes. ray and the people who are listening, there are millions of children who are living in their homes and they are subjected to repeated rape in their home. the we have an incest story that is staggering and we don't like to look at it. but when i saw this case, i thought "oh, my goodness. a lot of my patients are going to be watching and they're going to be saying "that's me. that's what happened to me. what happened in my own house." >> suarez: and very briefly,

doctor, do their family members also need some advice? a tool kit to proceed from now on? they are their primary caregivers but they're also not professionals. are there things that they have to know? >> well, there are, ray, and in a world of going back and helping to undo trauma it's good for a family member to meet with a trauma expert. i mean, for example, one of the saddest things that you'll see in families with traumatized people is they lose the volume of their feeling-- joy and love-- they're numb. and they may give the impression that they don't really care about other people who are in their family or their friends. they do. they do. but those feelings are masked and diminished. so if everybody knows that they can help coach and elicit these feelings. i've been impressed by soldiers who faced all kinds of

difficulty on the battlefield k.p. lose their sensation of the love of god. and therapists can help get the sensation restored and that means a lot to people to have the feeling of their faith, the feeling of the love for their families. and thank goodness now we have a science and we have xwin in additions who can help. >> suarez: dr. frank ochberg, thanks for joining us. >> you're welcome, ray. >> brown: ohio public media's ideastream is following the story. you can see their reports on our homepage. >> woodruff: we return to last september's attack on u.s. installations in benghazi, libya. house speaker john boehner demanded today that the white house order the state department to release emails related to whom the agency thought was behind the attack. yesterday, amid a steady flow of partisan arguing by members of congress, three state department

officials testified that senior government officials withheld embarrassing facts and did not take responsibility for security at the benghazi facilities. one of the witnesses, former u.s. deputy chief of mission in libya, gregory hicks, said he was effectively demoted after he questioned and criticized the state department's handling of the attack. to help us sort out some of the facts in the story, i'm joined by adam entous of the "wall street journal." welcome back to the newshour. >> thank you very much. >> woodruff: first of all, adam, do we know what e-mails speaker boehner is looking for? >> at this point we don't know specifically what e-mails he's thinking. thousands of e-mails have already been turned over to the state department. some of those e-mails have been provided only to certain committees, particularly the intelligence committees, and those may be the ones that he's referring to. and those e-mails focus on the 94-word talking points that were given to susan rice to deliver on the talk shows after the

attack. >> woodruff: so that's still unclear at this point. well, let's talk about some of the disputes that clearly are still out there after yesterday's testimony. what do we know in terms of what security was requested for the installation in benghazi before everything happened on september 11? >> so there were a series of security incidents in benghazi in the months leading up to the attack. including an i.e.d. attack on the consulate itself. and there was a lot of calls from within the mission, so within tripoli, from the security officers there to beef up security. the issue was the libyans have restrictions on the number of security officers, armed security officers, that they will allow in. and plus the americans wanted to keep a low profile at the consulate in benghazi and so that put some strain on the ability of the u.s. to really

increase those numbers. >> woodruff: so there were requests made and the response was what? >> the response was as far as we can tell that they're going to look into it but no commitments were made about increasing security. and, you know, there was a brief plus-up in the number of guards at the consulate for a one-week period after this i.e.d. attack on the consulate. this is months before september 11. >> woodruff: but then that went away. >> then it went back to the low number. >> woodruff: very quickly, not to get into ancient history, but there had been requests for additional funding for security at this installation, other diplomatic installations? those requests were voted down by congress, including both parties, including republicans. >> correct. and you also had a larger special forces contingent that was at the tripoli embassy which was reduced in the months before the attack and the pentagon explained that that was done because their mission had been

completed so it went back down to a lower number. >> woodruff: so on the night of the attack, september 11, 2012, there's a dispute about whether or not there could have been a military rescue. what are the facts of that? >> right. well, mr. hicks during his testimony yesterday provided us with a lot more detail than we had previously had about his role and about what they were doing in the embassy in tripoli. he describes the conversation he had with the defense attache in which the defense attache explained that he had -- was on the phone with africa command and the joint staff. so this would be the military commanders that are responsible for security in libya. and they explained to the defense attache that there were fighter planes, the closest were in aviano, italy, it would be a two to three-hour flight to get there and that there were no air tanker refuelers that were

capable of servicing them. >> woodruff: so either too far away and not the ability to make the trip. >> correct. >> woodruff: and what about -- but we were also told that there was a question about special operations. a small contingent of special operations forces who were in tripoli. >> the marines have what's referred to as fast teams which are positioned in the region around the region in europe and in the middle east the pentagon says that they can be deployed quickly, but it takes hours for them to deploy. and i think what we've learned is that the pentagon initially after reports came into washington that the consulate had been attacked the -- they thought it was over. they thought it was an attack that occurred and then there was no reason to suspect that there would be a second wave which 40 cured hours later at the annex which is the c.i.a. facility. >> woodruff: so finally, adam, what about this -- the allegation that mr. hicks made

that what really emerged from that hearing yesterday, which is that the obama administration, secretary clinton have not been as forthcoming as they should have been? that information -- investigators did not have access to the people and the information they needed to get to the bottom of this. >> well, i mean, that is an accusation we've also heard from many republicans and some democrats in congress who were concerned that information was not being shared quickly enough. in the immediate rung up to the u.s. elections last year it was a very sensitive issue. the state department provided a lot of documentation to congressional investigators. there was dissatisfaction on both sides and in particular there was a lot of concern about the thing that nobody could talk about which was the c.i.a.'s role in benghazi. of the 30 americans who were evacuated after the attack, approximately 27 of them worked for the state department. the rest of them were working for the c.i.a. and that's something nobody was

able to talk about in open session and that really did make it much harder for everybody to explain what actually transpired >> woodruff: so after yesterday's hearing, where does this come go from here? clearly there are still two or more versions of many aspects of this. >> right. i mean, i think it's pretty clear that the republicans intend on maintaining this and continuing this as an issue and there will be more hearings for sure and i think that yesterday's dramatic testimony-- which humanized in a way that we hadn't seen before what occurred on september 11-- is going to add some additional steam to this. but i'm not entirely clear what additional information is going to be gleaned. maybe these additional e-mails when they'll passed out will provide additional information and we'll have to wait and see. >> woodruff: adam entous at the "wall street journal," thank you. >> thank you. >> brown: next, abandoning a widespread and painful rite of

passage. special correspondent fred de sam lazaro visited the west african nation of senegal. his report is part of our "agents for change" series. and a note: some viewers may find the subject matter troubling. >> reporter: as dusk approaches, a group called tostan sets up a giant screen in this remote village in senegal. to overcome language barriers, the feature will be a 1929 buster keaton silent film. the film is a hit. so were events put on earlier in the day by tostan. it's mission is to teach about human rights, specifically the right to health, but its seminars and skits often lead to a discussion of an age old custom: female genital cutting. >> ( translated ): she needs to be cut. all girls need that. you can't have a recognized marriage if she's not cut.

>> reporter: this painful rite of passage is practiced by both muslims and christians across a swath of mostly african nations, from senegal to egypt. each year, the world health organization says up to three million girls in africa are subjected to genital mutilation, and up to 140 million women live with its consequences. genital cutting probably originated in the harems of ancient rulers as a means of controlling women's fidelity, or a sign of chastity among those who aspired to be consorts, according to molly melching, who started tostan. >> as the years went on-- i mean 2,220 years-- it became very much a part of what was considered criteria for good marriage. >> reporter: melching is an illinois native who has lived here for four decades, first as a student, then peace corps worker. genital cutting was rarely discussed publicly and in fact when she began 20 years ago,

melching's goal wasn't to end it but instead simply provide information on many health problems that were seriously misunderstood. >> when you see a friend that you've known for several months and you've gone to her house for lunch, and then she tells you her child has some problem, that it's someone whose cast an evil spell on the child, the baby, and that she's going to take them to a religious leader to get the spell taken off, and you don't know what to say. it turns out the baby was dehydrated. >> reporter: but the more tostan's staff and volunteers talked with their local communities about health, the more the topic melching calls f.g.c. came up, since people began to tie it to bad health. >> so suddenly as they started learning about germ transmission and the consequences of f.g.c. and how these infections occur

and why they had more problems in childbirth than other women who had not been cut, they started saying wait a minute. >> reporter: to go from talking about an age-old cultural norm to actually changing it presented a big challenge. tostan's approach has been to go to local imams to get their agreement that the ritual is not a religious obligation. >> we share our modules with the religious leaders so they see that everything we do is for the well-being of the community, the health, and all these things are things that islam espouses, and so they're very happy in general, but first of all they're happy because we start with them. >> reporter: that respect also carries over in the groups messages in general. >> tostan found that using approaches that shame or blame people really was just the opposite of what would work in changing social norms, when you say to someone we know you love

your daughter and you're doing things because you love your daughter, but let's look at this and let's try to understand together exactly what are the consequences of this practice, but you are the ones who will have to make the decision, then suddenly people are willing to listen. they don't get defensive. >> reporter: it's been far more effective than the approach of many aid groups, says university of california san diego professor gerry mackie. >> when we think of an ideal way of making a change, we say it's democratic, we all get together and talk it over and decide what is the best thing to do. whereas some development approaches would say force them to do it, pay them to do it, trick them into doing it. >> reporter: in tostan's approach local leaders and elders produce the skits and lead discussions. their words and personal experience carry strong credibility. diarre ba used to make a living as a cutter.

>> ( translated ): i was part of this process. i felt bad, this is not right. i felt bad but i didn't know anything at the time. i had no learning. >> ( translated ): it's painful. i can never forget the pain, so painful. >> reporter: marieme bamba is a long time campaigner for tostan and she spared her ten-year-old daughter the trauma. yet, early in her own marriage she was determined to keep up the tradition, even though her own husband was opposed to it. >> ( translated ): she insisted that she had to do it. there were so many problems if you didn't do it. if you cooked meals, no one would eat your food. it's because we didn't know. people told us that it was our religion. if you don't do it you'll be going against your religion. all this is false. but i alone can't do this in the village. >> reporter: doing this alone could render ones daughters unmarriageable. so one of tostan's most critical roles today is to lessen the stigma by getting whole

communities and others into which they might marry to jointly declare an end to cutting. public rallies called declarations have increased to include hundreds of villages who gather to celebrate the decision. >> one part of bringing about a change like this is to get everyone to change at once, what we called coordinated abandonment. everyone has to see that everyone else sees that everyone is changing. >> never in my wildest dreams could i have imagined that i would be sitting here years later, saying that 4,792 communities in senegal had abandoned. in the beginning it was just un- thought of, unbelievable, because it was so taboo. >> reporter: since our visit the number of communities has grown to more than 5,000 and many have

also pledged to change another tradition: the frequent practice of allowing older men to marry adolescent girls, acknowledging both the health risks and the girls' human rights. molly melching says there are examples in history of this kind of sweeping shift in social norms and attitudes. she sees a very current one every time she comes home in american views on smoking. >> people were smoking and nobody said anything about it much through the '50s, the '60s, and even the '70s and as people became aware of the harm that it causes, more and more people-- there was a critical mass of people who started protesting. it was amazing for me, coming from senegal to the united states to see how quickly things turned around. >> reporter: tostan's efforts have now expanded beyond senegal to seven other african nations. >> woodruff: a version of fred's

story aired on the pbs program, religion and ethics newsweekly. his reporting is a partnership with the undertold stories project at saint mary's university in minnesota. he talks more with molly melching on our world page. find their conversation about how she got her start in activism against genital mutilation. >> brown: finally tonight, a news flash: marcia coyle was not in the courtroom today only because there were no supreme court arguments or decisions. but she is with us, because in her spare time from covering the court on a daily basis for the national law journal and, of course, regularly with us. she's written a book that takes a larger look at the justices and key cases since 2005, the year that john roberts became chief justice. it's called, "the roberts court: the struggle for the constitution." marcia, welcome. and marcia, welcome. >> thanks, jeff. >> brown: first, what were you

trying to do here that you don't do normally with us and for the -- in your daily job? >> i saw the book as an opportunity to really explore the court in-depth. i think i and many journalists today feel that we have fewer opportunities to write in-depth about just about any subject because of the internet. we're writing for our newspapers we're writing for the web, we're writing for blogs and a book was an opportunity to really do that and also to just add to what i do on the newshour and that's try to shed some light, more light, on what the court does. >> brown: well, when you look at the big picture, the big issue of the last year, one we've talked about and one you focus on here is the conservative shift in the makeup of the court and how that affects many of the decisions here. >> that's right. the court had a conservative majority for some time. but with the roberts court in particular we saw the court

become a little more conservative than its predecessor court mainly because of the addition of justice samuel alito who replaced justice sandra day o'connor. she often was more of a moderating force on the court and he is much more conservative >> brown: and one of the things you're looking at-- and, again, this comes up in the sort of politization of the court. we talk about it as a more -- and it's because of the times we live in, right? everything is politicized. >> that's true. >> brown: how did the justices see that and how did that play into their work, if at all? >> i did interview a good number of the justices and in the book some of them do talk about whether politics enters into their decision making and obviously they all feel that it does not. but they talk about how they approach cases. one, they don't think in terms of a liberal block and a conservative block. as one justice explained to me, "we all do the same thing. question we read the lower court

opinion, we read the brief, we listen to the arguments, we look at prior decisions and we make our decisions." but one justice also said "the results are what the results are we shouldn't be so naive, i think, to believe that when you have five justice ace pointed by a republican president and four by democratic presidents that there is going to be ideological each think with the politics of the president. >> brown: and the way you've done this is to look at four big areas, cases that were decided i by 5-4. >> that's right, jeff. it's a story of the roberts court in general but more specifically it's the story of four great divides on the court in the areas of race, guns, money in campaigns and elections and health care. >> brown: all very much with us. >> these decisions have shelf life, we're going to see more litigation and we've seen it

right now in the current court. but also the struggle within the court and outside of the court for the meaning of the constitution in those areas. >> brown: and you get to tell the back store i, which is what makes it so sort of intriguing and takes us beyond the daily news, right? >> yes. >> brown: including how a lot of cases just get to the court. what's going on behind the scenes. >> that was really important to me because when we talk about cases, we briefly go through the facts and then we deal with the law. but it's hard to get to the supreme court. and in the book you're going to meet people like a seattle mother who sued the seattle school district in the race cases. and you're going to meet a political activist who was involved in the citizens united case. and at the same time you're going to meet some very smart, creative, conservative and libertarian lawyers who have an eye on the court, a more certain thet i can court, and push these

cases up to the supreme court. young lawyers who -- like the one who won the second amendment gun case. >> brown: it's the roberts court and you start with chief justice roberts. how is he involved? what -- what role do you think he plays in sort of controlling the shape of -- and the outcome of the court? >> i think he's very committed to trying to reach consensus on the court because when the court can speak with one voice or nearly one voice it sends a clear message to the lower courts that they should apply and interpret the law. and he's had some success with that. and one of the things i point out in the book is that even though i'm focusing on 5-4 decisions, more than 50% of the court's decisions are unanimous

or by 7-2 or 8-1. >> brown: that doesn't get that much attention, right? we all tend to look at those -- >> right, not at all. and president 5-4 decisions that i do focus on, i pick them mainly because when we learn when they divide like that the most about individual justices as to how they approach and interpret the law. >> brown: and personally -- well, we talked about this after the health care decision, for one, which you write about here. did that leave any strains among the justices or can you tell from their working life how much they do get along? >> okay. well, i did talk to two justices after the health care ruling and they were very honest that it was a very tense, tough time. in fact they compared it to the seattle/louisville school cases that i discussed that were for 2007. it was that difficult.

but they also were very confident that the emotions and the passions would be eased by the following september and i have seen no evidence of continued strain among the justices. this is a group of justices that actually -- they do like each other. and they work well. it's a very -- it's a very collegial court. it's not nine scorpions in the bottle that we know historically >> brown: john roberts came as a young man. he could be there for a long time. a number of young justices now. this is very much a work in progress, right? i mean, in the long term but even in the short term as of next week we'll have some new decisions. >> that's right. and that's another point in the book that by historical standards this is a young court and also by the age of at least four of the justices and the change -- the turnover that's been on the court in just five years they had four new justices. ful that the justices also talk about in book how that affects their own jurisprudence and also

their interpersonal relationship. >> brown: "marcia coil, as always, thank you. >> thank you, jeff. >> brown: we'll continue this conversation online. please join us there later and you can read excerpts from marcia's book and coverage of this session's major cases. all that on our supreme court page. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day: a massive immigration reform plan survived mostly intact as a senate committee began considering hundreds of amendments, but it faces determined opposition in the weeks to come. and a cleveland man was arraigned in the kidnap and rape of three women who were held captive for years. a prosecutor said he might seek the death penalty in the case. >> brown: online today: meet some of the compassionate caregivers on the front lines of american health care. hari srenivasan makes the introduction. >> sreenivasan: photographer and filmmaker carolyn jones spent two years examining changes in the health care system. i interviewed her about her new book "the american nurse project." find that, plus eight nursing

jobs you never knew existed. plus, people on both sides of the immigration debate have put their views into song. listen to their music and find interviews with a songwriter and a producer on the rundown. all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org. judy? >> woodruff: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. >> woodruff: and i'm jeffrey brown. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. with mark shields and michael gerson, among others. thanks for joining us. good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> more than two years ago, the people of b.p. made a commitment to the gulf. and everyday since, we've worked hard to keep it. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy. we shared what we've learned so that we can all produce energy more safely. b.p. is also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger.

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