>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin tonight with the controversies plaguing president obama's second term. joining me, al hunt of "bloomberg news." karen tumulty of "washington post," and jessica yellin of cnn. >> best thing he has going for him is the republicanes and the one of the problems created this week they for the first time in a long time are united on all three of these issues. what he should be most worried about-- when i'm afraid he's not-- is the insularity of this white house. >> we continue with dan brown. his latest book is "inferno." i write about the vatican and antimatter in the same book, here i'm writing about futuristic genetic technology and humanism. i like writing in the gray area of ethical right and wrong where you can argue both sides of the

equation. langdon loves to argue both sides of the equation and let the readers decide which way is correct. >> reporter: we conclude this evening with the film "before midnight," starring julie delpy, and ethan hawke, and directed by richard linklater. >> when you make a movie that spans 18 years, and you watch what people's relationship to romantic love is, what it means to you in your early 20s, what it feels like to connect with a woman for the first time. and then as you get to the age of 30 and it starts to get a little bit more complicated and a little bit more interesting. and then by the time you're in the middle of the road, it's actually a lot of things at one time. and our goal-- a little one is to try to make a deeply romantic movie that didn't have one lie in it. >> how do two people who are meant to be together and maybe have gotten so much of what of that ever wanted still, how do

they negotiate through the world? >> rose: new questions for the obama administration. a new novel by dan brown, who wrote the "da vinci code" and a new movie called "before midnight," all of that next.

captioning sponsored by rose ofmunications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: this evening we want to talk about the white house and the's second term and where he might be. the white house has been rocked by scandal this week. the president is under attack over a trio of unrelated issues which have all entered the spotlight at the same time. the death of ambassador stevens, along with three other americans in benghazi. and then the subsequent allegations of a cover-up. the improper i.r.s. scrutiny of groups opposed to the president. and the justice department's sweeping subpoenas of the associated press phone records. then on thursday, the president had a press conference and promised improvements. >> my concern is making sure that if there's a problem in the government, that we fix it. that's my responsibility. and that's what we're going to

do. that's true with respect to the i.r.s. and making sure that they apply the laws the way they were intended. that's true with respect to the security of our di comes, whichs why we're going to need to work with congress to make sure there's adequate funding for what's necessary out there. now, with respect to the department of justice, i'm not and pending case, but i can talk broadly about the balance that we have toñi strike. leaks related to national security can put people at risk. they can put men and women in uniform that i'veñr sent into te battlefield at risk. they can put some of our intelligence officers who are in

various dangerous situations that are easily compromised at risk. now, the flip side of it is we also live in a democracy where a free press, free expression and the open flow of information helps hold me accountable, helps hold our government accountable and helps our democracy function. and, you know, the whole reason i got involved in politics is because i believe so deeply in that democracy and that process. >> rose: joining me from washington jessica yellin, cnn's chief white house correspondent. karen tumulty of the "washington post." and albert hunt of "bloomberg news." i am pleased to have all of them. i begin, as usual, with my friend al hunt. tell me where you think this white house is at this moment, al. it's broader than these three scandals-- questions about the president not having an opportunity to finish his agenda. questions of whether he is a bystand tore his own government.

and questions as to whether what his agenda is and whether he has the power to finish it. >> charlie, he is in trouble. but, first, let me talk about what it is and what it's not. this is not watergate. there is absolutely no evidence of any criminality on the part of the president or any of his top aides. there was incompetence. there was some zealous over-reach. there was some deception. but for those who talk about this in terms of watergate, that's just crazy. it is not that and i will be shocked if any of that should emerge. why it's politically perilous for this president, though, is there's enough in the triliology of controversies, scam who keep it going. who knew what and when did they know it? why weren't actions and counter-actions taken. through reporting enterprise, whistleblowers, this is going to be a dominant part of the news for the next two, three, four months, and if it is, and if the white house can't get out ahead

of it -- and i think they have been very reactive, very belated on this, if they can't get out ahead of this they're going to lose their voice on immigration, signing up for the health care bill, fiscal fairness, or whatever. thing a perilous political time for president obama. and i think despite efforts the last few days they have been slow to react and slow to appreciate the seriousness of it. >> rose: karen? >> i think what's interesting is these are three very different controversies and they each have their own constituency of the outraged. but the thing they have in common is they all fit into the sort of storyline that the president's enemies have been painting about him all along, that this is big government run amok. that the president doesn't care about the restraints of the constitution. that he has contempt for his enemies. and i think that that is what the white house really has to get ahead of here. and unlike the clinton white house, where they essentially had a scandal management team on

the premises from day one of that presidency, this president has been sort of blessed by not having these sorts of controversies. so we really are seeing them as al said, kind of getting up to speed a little bit slowly here, but, you know, it's far from clear whether that's going to hurt them in the long run in in fact they can get their footing. >> rose: jessica. >> well, i would say that they're always slow to react, charlie, any time that they are hit with controversy. we always say they're slow off the dime, and then the president suddenly gets his footing. the difference is these ones are big, and these ones are happening together and they seem to be forming a significant together weight on this white house and the fact that they don't have the sort of heft inside to really form a serious response is becoming a problem for them because of this. i think the fact the president's about to implement balmcare at

the very-- at this very moment is troubling for the right. and it's at this very same moment that the president has all these problems within government on his watch, and these scandals call into question whether government is working properly on president obama's watch. the very same time, you have balmcare coming in, and you have these scandals saying is government working? this is going to be a potent mix to keep his right wing critics very angry and very active for months to come. >> rose: so what can we do, al? >> well, he-- i think as both karen and jennifer have suggested is he's got to get out in front, charlie. their reaction in the beginning was this is all about politics. this is our enemies trying to do us in. yeah, it is, but that doesn't mean they can't do something about it. i thought he was a little bit late on the i.r.s. i think they have to explain more. i think they have to be more transparent. they have to be more proactive. and i think if they do that,

they can at least minimize some of the problems. charlie, on the merits, if you look at some of this, benghazi, yeah, it was awful, but the idea that somehow these lives would have been saved is nonsense. bob gates says there's no way it would have been happened. >> rose: but that says something whether the security system was appropriate for the risk out of that place in benghazi. >> right, and they-- and they deserve blame for that, the state department does, for not making that so. but that came out-- that was quite clear in the report that was-- that was issued just a few weeks ago. so that's not new. and on the i.r.s., what they did was outrageous, but you know something, these groups should have been investigated. they just shouldn't have targeted tea party groups. and the third on what i think is the grotesque over-reach on the associated press, let's not forget it was the republicans that initiated and then called and demand for those leaks investigation. all that's fine, but you know

something? that doesn't get the white house out of this. they can't fall back on that. they have to understand that somehow they have to persuade the american people that they care about it, that they are bothered by it, and that they are going to do something about it, and i think it has to go beyond what they have done so far. >> as far as the i.r.s. he has been exceedingly legalistic about it. when he was asked did anyone in the white house know what was happening in the i.r.s. before the date we were officially notifyed in the white house counsel office he wouldn't answer that directly. he said he personal didn't know about the press reports came out but he did not address whether anyone in his entire white house knew and that may be because he really can't yet speak to that but it's one of the ways in which this is an ongoing problem. he has to answer these questions. the benghazi, it's-- it's-- al's exactly right. the real issue is why did people die? bad security. inept response, basically.

but the talking points issues creates another problem because look, he's not releasing information until they're forced to release information. this white house claims to be the most transparent administration in history. but is it really transparency when it's forced on them? they don't actually share what they're up to until political pressure demands it. it was the same with solyndra. it's the same with all these scandals. they come clear and clean when the optics require it. >> and i can tell you the people i've talked to at the white house think that the implications of these three controversies are very, very different. they think benghazi is not going to go anywhere because the american people, they care about embassy security. they do not care about agencies having a big fight behind the scenes about their talking points. the white house is very worried about the i.r.s. scandal. they think americans understand it. americans already hate the i.r.s. they already assume it's run

amok. so if there is some bad news here, if there is a stray e-mail that shows that somebody somewhere in the administration outside the i.r.s. knew about this, i think they would be very well advised to get those e-mails or whatever evidence out on their own terms and not wait for it to come out in a concongressional hearing or some kind of investigation. >> charlie, let me just absolutely concur with that. i want to pick up on somethin somethingiesica said earlier. i called her janetielin earlier. i want to pick up on this because the i.r.s. reports to the treasury. did any treasury officials know about this and when did they know about it? that is a really critical question? and why didn't they do something about it? why didn't they reveal it to the public? did they mislead congress about that? those are all terribly important issues, and karen is right. this is something people really

hate. they hate the i.r.s. meddling, and it has a really nefarious history, and to sit back and say, all right, we're going to go. we're going to fire the acting commissioner--" should have done that, fire a couple of other people. but they have to do more than that. they have to be far more trarns parent than they've been. >> they also may have created in their reaction so far a problem for themselveses with eric holder in the justice department opening this criminal investigation. because once you open a criminal investigation, when congress calls some of these people up to testify they are going to demand immunity. and that is going to set off this protracted negotiation between their lawyers and the justice department and the people on the hill, and that, too, could-- it's going-- it can look like stonewalling even if it's being done for very proper legal reasons. >> rose: the president came off of a big win politically in the 2012 election. he believed that that election had consequences, that heou

do tintheners things likehis some, it seems to me, some sense of-- that causes people to-- an administration to lose its momentum and secondly causes some sense of questioning about the competence of the administration. questions, not answers. is that a factor here? that they ought to fear? >> yeah, any momentum from last november 6 has dissipated. those-- actually, those mandates tend to be very ephemeral, anyway, even with bigger victories than barack obama scored last november. i think that's gone. look ahead for this year, for the president to have a good second term, he has to get an imigration of operation bill through. if he doesn't get that through it will be a dreadful year. he's got a shot at background checks. it's probably uphill, but if he could come back and at let's win the senate, that would be good and at least to break even on the fiskald debt issues.

if he did all that this year, it wouldn't abe bad year, assuming the world didn't blow up, charlie. i think the current problems -- and i think they are controversies more than scandals -- i think they are going to inhibit his ability to all of those issues and the big one would be immigration. >> rose: i saw an interesting piece today by peter bake nert "new york times" in which he went into this thing saying that the president sometimes talks about "bull worth" the movie warren beatty starred in and directed and wrote in fact, in which a politician basically says, "i'm going to let it all hang out. i'm going to say exactly what i want." >> maybe this is his walter mitty fantasy, i don't know. the fact sin the second term you don't have a lot of running room. and one thing this president is very aware of is the very short time horizon of a sub term and how quickly what-- what energy what, opportunity you have is sapped. i mean, this is a president who knows that a second term is living on borrowed time. so he does feel a real urgency.

and that, i think, in talking to people at the white house, that is what they think is the real cost of all these controversies, that it is sapg their time. it is sapg their energy and their focus at a time when they want to be doing other things. >> rose: is there any bold initiative-- yes, al. >> i was going to say i agree. all presidents say that in the second terms. but it's an absolute myth that presidents would be much better served if they just let it all hang out. roosevelt was a manipulative, brilliant, machiavellian leader. he didn't show that in the fireside chats. he was the reassuring, comforting leader. eisenhower was a far tougher middle eastern figure-- to the country's benefit-- than the avuncular ike who came through. reagan was much less of an ideologue. it's a myth. presidents say this in frustration and it really doesn't mean a thing. >> rose: how long-- yes, go ahead, jessica? >> if you were to go back to

al's point earlier what the president has on the agenda we can be counter intuitive for a moment and say he could have a very successful second term, even looking out at the horizon, given the controversies he's facing today if he gets immigration reform done, that would be a major legacy accomplishiment. then he has health care reform. he would have immigration reform. he's done his tax reform. and maybe he could go for another kind of entitlement reform. but they're hoping here that that if he does immigration, that would break the narrative that he is entrenched in this sort of swirl of ineptitude and controversy and put him on a solid footing again. we just had a report from the congressional budget office that the deficit is shrinking-- growing less rammedly. so better news. so maybe sunnier days on the horizon is their hope. >> rose: explain to me, as all these controversies, as you say, al, not scandals, controversies

swirl, where are they in terms of the white house and the congress on the budget and what are the expectations for some kind of grand bargain and how are they going to deal with the sequestration and the debt ceiling? >> i think they're somewhere between slim and absolutely none. i think there's no movement. i think the republicans will capitulate on the debt. but i don't think we'll have any kind of a deal, and as jessica said a moment ago, the fact that the deficit is coming down brings even less pressure on either side to really do much. >> i would argue that of all of these things we're talking. about of agenda items the most important may be implementing this health care law and making it work, because there is nothing that is going to be more important to this president's legacy. and there is a fourth controversy here on the horizon, which say question that was raised this week by senator lamar alexander, not exactly known as a frothing ideologue, about the fact that the administration, hhs was going outside to raise funds which he

argues is in violation of the law. again, they are going to be facing a lot of, you know, red flags, you know, penalty flags on pretty much everything they try to do. >> not to mention the fact that some of obama said care is implemented by the i.r.s. that's a problem right there. >> rose: does everybody, in the words of max baucus, consider this a train wreck? >>un, i think-- we won't really know until october when people start signing up for these health care marketplaces that they are calling exchanges. we won't really know until the beginning of next year when all the states are required to have these things up and running and working. but the potential is there. this is a pretty huge undertaking with a lot of moving parts. and one thing that the public does not seem to be in the mood to do right now is give anybody the benefit of the doubt. to have any kind of patience

about whatever kind of early glitches we see in this. >> charlie, i think it has the potential-- >> it's also communications. >> i'm sorry, jessica, go ahead. >> it's a communications challenge to some extent because a lot of people have gotten benefits from the health care reform plan already that they don't realize comes from health care reform. but the critics are so loud, everybody knows when your insurance premiums are going up as a result of obamacare. the and their outside groups have to be more effective in the coming year if they want this legacy to be press teen. >> rose: what's best thing president obama has going for him at this time? and what ought he be most worried about in terms of himself and his administration? >> i'll go first. the best thing he has going for him is the republicans, and woivet problems that's been created this week that they for the first time in a long hiem timeare united on all three of these issues. what he should be most border-- which i'm afraid he's not, is

then insular administration. >> yup. >> rose: karen? >> well, i think one thing he has going for him still is people do pretty much trust him. even though his job approval ratings have been below 50%, they are back-- what they were before the election with the exception of george w. bush, no second term president has had approval ratings this low this early in his presidency. but i do think most americans still want to see obama succeed and, you know, that is what he really has to worry about with these scandals eroding that. >> rose: but at the same time, karen-- i'm come right to jessica-- at the same time, some will say one of the problems he has in a time of crisis he doesn't have the kind-- he hasn't reached out and made a lot of friends in washington so there are people that will come to his aid and support if push comes to shove. is there any truth to that? >> well, i think that, you know, he has not been a good-- you

know, there's-- a lot of democrats have of in particular feel like obama has sort of been out for obama's own career and obama's reelection. and i think that there's been all this kind of social outreach he's been doing, but what is really going to convince democrats to quiet on aboard with him is if he sort of gets on board with them going into these midterm elections. >> rose: jessica? >> i think his advantage is that he really keeps, as best i can tell, the long distance view. he is one of the rare politicians who does not get caught up in the day-to-day hysteria as much and can play chess and so he had john mccain in this week to talk about immigration reform because heenes that could turn this around. that's also his biggest problem because you and i and al and karen care about the day-to-day as the nation does, and maybe he's already out of the date in doing that. you've got to respond to today. it's his plus and it's his

minus. >> rose: thank you all very much. thank you, al, thank you, karen, thank you, jessica. >> than thank you charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. dan brown is here. he's the author of bestselling novels like "da vinci code." his books have told more than 200 million copies and been translated into more than 50 languages. they've been adapted into popular films starring tom hanks. his new book "inferno" is the fourth in the robert langdon theersies inspired by dante's epic poem "the divine comedy." you choose weighty subjects to be inspired. >> these books take a long time. i like to have something meaty. >> qiewf been thinking about dante's comedy. >> "da vinci code" and "angels and demons" both deal with church history and how dante

formed our modern christian version of hell. it wasn't until dante that we had a picture of it. >> rose: once you have the notion that i want to at least find a way to incorporate dante into a work of fiction, how do you go about it? >> well, the first thing you cois go to florence. >> rose: right. >> that's critical. i went to florence a number of times for this. the first trip really was to be inspired by the landscape of dante and to find the locationss that would become characters in the novel. obviously, read an awful lot about dante. >> reporter: but you have robert langdon. how did you decide what the driving mechanism-- this is also about the future. >> it is. >> rose: it's about population control. it's about technology. it's about epidevelopmentics. >> i try to mixole and new. i write about the vatican and antimatter in the same book.

here i'm writing about a 14th century epic poem and i like writing in the gray area of ethical right and wrong where-- where you can argue both sides of the equation. langdon loves to argue both sieftdz equation and let the readers decide which way is correct. >> rose: tell us what transhumanism is. >> yeah, it is a very quickly growing philosophy. that deals with the scaebs and ethics of using advanced technology, like genetic engineering, to improve our species psychologically. some people consider it sort of the bravest human idea and some people consider it the most dangerous human idea. and i don't really answer the question in the book. >> rose: do you find yourself identifying with transhumanists? >> it's funny, we've been engineering owrlzs for quite some time. and whether it's vaccines or in vitro fertilization we can now select a gender.

we can select against certain diseases. this is not darwinian natural selection. it's here. and these are debates we are going to have very, very quickly. this technology is coming at us in an exponential pace. >> rose: some of the ethical questions have not been considered as much as the progress of the technology. >> absolutely. our floss fees aren't advancing quite as quickly. we have to have geography in your novels, for sure. >> location is a character in these books. i love art. i love architecture. my hero loves art and architecture, and part of this chase is through a landscape. if he passes a caravajio, you'll learn about it and you'll learn about it as you're running away from whatever it is you're running away from. >> rose: and. >> rose: and the chase here is

a guy who is about to die and there will be a release of a deadly virus. >> he's inspired by dante. he's a fanatic. he's a transhumanist. and he commits suicide in the opening chapter. and it startles people. they say, "newshour you don't have a villain." in this book, the villain has set something in motion. >> rose: the villain is the shadow, too? >> and because the only man who knows the solution is dead, there really is no doubt of out. you have to face the issue. you can't catch this guy and get him to tell you the secret. do you have a series things like chase, the past and the future, geography-- that you have to touch because they're the cornerstones of what you write or is it an instinctive thing for you, if you didn't do that, you wouldn't enjoy the process? >> i think it's the latter. certainly there are similar elementelements in my book. i don't sit down with achecklise

biography, we have that, and we have this. these books take research and interest, and i keep myself interested in the process. i love to travel and learn about art and architecture. if i wrote without some of these element i probably would be bored. >> there is also a fetching lead character. >> of course. >> rose: who is she? >> seof ciena brooks is a different kind of character for me. a young woman, early 30s. highly, highly intelligent. off-the-charts iq and a little strange and has interesting ideas about where the world is headed and shares them with langdon. thee comes a>> rose: let me go e movies. >> we're in preproduction.

it's a very difficult script to write. a lot of people have taken a crack, including myself. it's a difficult book to adapt, very difficult. >> rose: what makes it that. >> you look at a movie like angels and deem opposite, a ticking clock, bomb in the vatican. a book like the "lost symbol" about the ancient mysteries, masonic philosophy, the ticking clock doesn't really exist. and you have to-- it's such a complicated and ethereal 7 idea that to condense it into two hours of entertainment just-- it takes some manipulation. >> rose: but this is more like the "da vinci code." >> this almost seems like it will just lay down perfectly for a movie. >> rose: were you thinking that when you wrote this book? >> i wasn't-- at least i don't think i was. this was just a very exciting concept for me and this is just the way i wrote the book. >> rose: and who did you model laipgdon on. you took the name from a friend, i think. >> from an artist and i liked

the name and he was a governor of new hampshire. it's a very solid name. some of my greatest heros are teachers. my dad was a teacher. some of the most interesting people i've ever met were teachers at phillips exeter and amherst college and i love to learn. i hope this comes through in the books that you have a professor who has given you a guide tour of florence and genetic engineering. you finish a thriller but feel like you have been taught. >> rose: what department at harvard would langdon be in. >> semiotics or iconology, philosophy, art history. >> rose: why did you create this thing that does not exist for him? >> you know, i thought it was fun. it's a word that is really-- that really conjures exactly what he does. >> rose: when you're writing for him, you now have him. do you have hanks in mind visually because there's somebody who now visualizes it. >> i think the rest of the world probably does. i don't. i mean, i love seeing --

>> you had something in mind before hanks came along. >> exactly. and i spent enormous amounts of time with these books and much less time with the movies. i -- >> but do you see the bangladesh as you're writing the book, through the character, the main character, through langdon? >> you actually see each individual chapter through whatever your point of view is. i'm a little bit maniacal about controlling point of view. >> rose: what do you mean by "point of view? >> ? >> for example fa tell a scene through langdon'size, you get his internal monologue. you get the thoughts that are in his head but you get none of the other thoughts in the other characters' heads and this enables you to conceal information. writing spups is not about what you tell the reader. it's about what you withhold and point of view let you do that. >> rose: to decide what you can tell and withhold? >> fairly, such that the -- >> if you withhold too much, the reader will not be happy or less satisfied? >> the experience i want the

read tore have, when they see the twist, they any back and they say, "i can't believe i missed that. it was write in front of me." >> rose: so you want them to think that. >> yeah, definitely. >> rose: and go back and check. i need to give them a chance to figure it out. >> rose: do you outline all way to the end? >> without a doubt. >> rose: you have to do that? >> these books are so complicated that if i didn't i would get to the end and not have an ending. >> rose: who resident it first. >> my wife. >> rose: does she get your voice? does she get your character? does she get dialogue or does she bring every person's attitude? >> she brins an ever-person attitude. however, she is very passionate about art and history and she and i have this ongoing bhatle. she'll say, "you mentioned this painting by visari, and you only give a paragraph. i want three pages." and my point we're on

run so how about two paragraphs. >> rose: you're on the run because you feel the necessity to be in the reader's place so you're not getting bog down? >> absolutely. in dante's inferno, he using physical action so well. they are physically moving through a landscape and that keeps the action going. that enables you to talk philosophy and expart history and the reader doesn't feel like they're being lectured to. >> rose: in "the divine comedy" how much sometime do they spend in hell and how much in perg tear. >> pretty much a third and a third and a third. i consider ""inferno" to be the most interesting. as a thriller writer it's the most vivid and horrifying. and gives you a great title. >> rose: why this title for this? hell is what happens if we don't do something about population? >> that's a good way to look at it.

there's a quo, the darkest parts of hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in the time of crise. the greatest sin is pride. dante believes that. the bible believes that. greek mythology believes that. the concept of prietd, being above the problems of the world, is one they-- that i think a lot of us face. we will turn a blind eye to what's happening. and dante feels that's a sin, and i'm arguing maybe he's right. >> rose: do you view each of your books as equally good? >> i imagine it's like having children. they all have different atrebts. each book means something different. >> rose: of to you. >> rose: what ask does this one have that others didn't? >> i hope that as i continue to write books they get better. i think the has great pace. i think it has also got a very relevant technology and message.

>> a great strdz teller. there's clear. you don't sell 200 million copies of books without being a good storyteller. how obsessed are you about writing really well? you be, the idea that i'm going to sell 200 million books at the same time, i'm going to force critics to come to grips with the fact that there is an evolution in me as there is an evolution in most people in terms of acquired skills. >> when you're a creative person, all you have tol to guide you when working is your taste, whether a writer or artist, whatever it is. you create something that you like, that suits your taste and hope people share your taiflts. >> rose: how does that apply to writing. taste means what? >> when you write a sentence or paragraph you say i like that.

i do something specific and intentional with the writing style. i wish everybody loved it, but that's kind of unrealistic. >> rose: it's this is who i am take it or leave it. >> basically. >> rose: how far along are you about of. >> i just have a dig file of things i'm thinking i might write. i haven't specifically narrowed down exactly what will be next but i have a whole lot of idea. >> rose: and you look at all these things, you can imagine taking off nay totally different direction saying i've condition this. i'm proud of this. but i want to go somewhere where i've never been. i want to dive in deep waters. >> absolutely i can imagine that. >> rose: you made all the money you possibly could need. >> i've been very fortunate. >> rose: this book is called "inferno"." by the author of, obviously, the

"da vinci code." the "lost symb" >> rose: first there was "before sunrise anyone" then "before sunset" and then "before midnight." it stars julie delpy and ethan hawke here is the trailer for the film. >> they said we should stop. they want to see the ruins. >> should we make them up? >> on the way back to the airport we'll catch them. >> you know we won't. >> how did you two meet? >> we met about 18 years ago. we kind of of sort of-- a decade later we ran into each. >> no, you wrote a book and i went to look for it. >> if we're meeting today for the first time on a trin, would you start talking to me? would you ask me to get off the train with you? >> of course. >> this is of this place is full

of myth and tra tragedy, and i thought something trablgic was going to happen. sè1 there, still there, gone. you never stop ogling girls. >> i don't ogle girls. >> i'm stuck with an american teenager i feel close to you. but sometimes of sometimes i don't know, i feel like you're breathing helium and i'm breathing oxygen. what makes you say that? >> you are the mayor of crazy town, do you know that? you are. this is how people start breaking up. >> oh, my god. >> i assure you, that guy you met on the train, that is me >> rose: i don't think me is

the director, richard linklater, and one of the stars, ethan hawke. we may be joined later by julie delpy. i am pleased to have them here to talk about this film. how did you decide on a third installment of this and do you call it that? >> installment, what do we call it, episode. i guess it just emerges -- >> the story continues. >> yeah, six years after the last one when we recovered and thought about it realize jesse and celine are at a different stage of their lives. it's ethan and julie kind of aging, getting a little older in life, coming at us another six, seven years. then we start really thinking about it. wha>> rose: what are the themes here? >> the main character of the movie in a lot of ways is time. when you make a movie that spans

you watch what people's relationship to romantic love is, what it means to you in your early 20, and as you get to 30, it starts to get a little more complicated, and a little bit more interesting. and then by the time you're in the middle of the road, it's actually a lot of things at one time. and our goal-- a little one is to try to make a keeply romantic movie that distribute one lie in it. >> rose: not a single lie. >> most-- most-- could you face them-- >> that's harsh, too. >> could you face them and remain optimistic. >> rose: "before sunrise" was what? >> two 23-year-old meet on a train in europe and i have a night-- they're unatasmed in the world. they're tree to spend the night together and explore their attraction to one another.

it's about a connection. >> rose: and how does it end? >> it ends with them agreeing to meet six months later. >> rose: before equip sun set." he's written a book about that night, at a book shop after his reading. what happens in this? they spent 80-plus minutes getting to know each other gene. it's a-- that end with them properly determined-- even though their lives don't connect but they really are soulmates. >> rose: are they going to get together? >> that's a question. >> rose: that's a question you are left with after the second movie. >> what happens after they fade out. and you really it's going to get real, really quickly. this is nine more years go by

and we see the results of them something their passion. >> one of the positive things that's happened, whether positive or negative, they've of they've recebted. there's a connection between these two people, their lives-- you have to start realizing if of your life is confined and restricted by the other. their problems are-- you know, i like to say that people think their problems are intaigzal. you thinkibumñ because i have to do this interview today, and i have to do that. i have a daughter turning 15, and she thinks all her problems with this teacher, and friends, and he. the truth is, she's 15 and

jessica and celine have been-- >> they have been been together a while as the romant is congressing form. >> does the movie answer the question, hoof how do you keep the passion begin with? >> not in a board, but i think the entire movie is about how they do that >> two people who are meant to be together and maybe have gotten so much of what they ever wanted. still, how do they negotiate through theçó world. >> upon wanted what said. >> that's well saturday. so what happens? there's a wonderful meeting and imaginary pickup up. upon the weird thing about this movie and like the other mfdz is

nothing happens. the kind of event say falcon. >> it's about a connection. but they-- the others existed in these kind of ronatin mubls pfs in greece we see them, they've got kid and they're in it. >> we find them saernlg, and usually if you see them it's probably some horrible portrait of george and marcia. or it's some kind of phony the beaver and cleaver fans. what i thought would be fun is to see two well meaning people who love each other have a lot of trouble

it would be interesting to watch a fight where nobody is wrong and they still have a lotef anger. how does that happen it happens everyone at a all the time. wouldn't it be interesting tow dramatize it. >> reporter: could you have this conversation with a-- >> you want to have a serious conversation. that what you're saying? i don't think of i don't know if i want to have a serious conversation. >> this-- two manipulators trying to get what they want or preempt something they think is coming. >> rose: this is a scene from bid" where celine is asking jesse, what would happen if they

met on a tray we today. >> hey, can i ask you a question, if we're meeting for the first time, would you find me attractive. >> of course. >> really, right of right now, would you ask me to get off train with you >> i mean, you're asking a theoretical question. i mean, what would my life situation be? tech caegyically would be be cheating on you. >> i wanted you to to say something sporadic. i'm going to walk up and make-- >> stop it! billy goat. no, the truth is, you failed the test, and the fact is you would not pick me up on a fran. you would not even notice me, a fat-assed middle-aged mom losing her hair yeah, that's me.

>> you set me up to fail on this one. >> true, true, true. >> mary.>> but in the real worl, on game day when it mattered i did talk to you on a train. i did that. it was the best thing i ever did. >> really? look at the goat. that's not even a good question. the real question would be if i did ask you to get off the train, would you get off with me? >> of course not. i have people waiting for me. a 41-year-old horny billy goat. how creepy? i'm creepy. >> rose: and guess who joined us. julie delpy. >> the latest one. >> rose: since they've already said this, what's this movie about? >> i don't know. >> rose: you don't know what they've said. >> no this, movie is about

relationships-- a relationship in time over a few years. >> rose: are you optimistic about this relationship? >> i am personally, yeah, why note. they seem to still be communicating, at least trying to have sex. ( laughter ) >> the making each other laugh. >> they still haven't really connected. >> even the fighting, you know, sometimes of sometimes people see fighting as this real negative thing. the only people i've ooefer really fought with in my life are people i've loved. >> rose: that you care about enough. >> that you feel safe enough to expose yourself. >> and also you're arguing to make things better or standpoint a solution. >> you don't argue that way. you just argue. >> so the three of you write

together. >> how cow cothat? >> we sat in a room under 10 weeks but wine. guestation period is wonderful >> rose: tbawz you've decided might want to do it again but you can't for two years or so. >> once we agree on a thesis we can day dream on it under a year at a time. when we've sat on a table like this, we individually have had a medication on what it can be and what it isn't. first, to get to write a next one. we get into writing a word until we figured out what happened. we would hate to be doing another film-- even this film i don't think we would have gone into it if we didn't feel like

-- >> you spent part of your life in france. do these films do well in france? >> yes. >> rose: and is it better than america? >> actually-- >> they don't do well anywhere. ( laughter ) it's the lowest grossing trilogy of all times. it's to the to be. >> rose: so this is fun? >> yeah. we're compelled to, for some reason. jesse and celine are the people who show upñi and have-- >> and some people like it and some don't. >> in france it's doing well. the first one didn't do as well as the second one in france. i think this one-- it gets more-- darker and darker so i think the french will like it better. >> rose: if celine happy she got off the train. >> to hang out with this guy.

you know, i think he's shaep. i think she did the right thing. >> rose: the road not taken. >> yeah. >> the road taken, yeah. >> in reality i would have never, ever got off the train. >> rose: you would never have gotten off the train in reality? >> with anyone, never. >> they would have to go through a medical examination, trial. >> mental,ity of physical tests. >> rose: what are you saying about her? >> i'm saying these too smart to get off the pain so. >> rose: is that you, you moof of would have insisted being done in that period of my life, it's a big blur. >> and that's what s said

>> is it directed a first tiernlg does it come. >> we know how we work. we're settled into these characters but it get harder. this was harder. >> why was it harder? >> the bar is higher, what we're trying to achieve. i think they-- we also wuive each others as writers buttals actors i know what was required with ethan and julie where some of the long tapes is tiewf to do for an actor. >> rose: julie, what have you liked most about doing this? >> being next to such geniuses. >> i'm doing the kiss ass--

sorry. you're not suppose supposed tout word. i like the creative process of working together. i've worked with other people, written with other people. but there are some people you really connect and i think we have a kind of-- you know, it's very interesting how we kind of-- i know it sound crazy because writers, actors, directors, have big meegles. it's all about the work. i'm not sure to have a better line for ethan. i'm for the meft movie possible. not they do that-- it's really about the work, and how wonderful it is to create work. people forget-- much muchs are entertainment. people forget we do that because we lovecratting things. priched is a director because

thee hee loves drinking and acting and loving an-- it's not just for business. especially those films. it's fewer of pure. >> when you create a character in a movie with youricose star. >> it's from the d.n.a. out, the movie grows, and we're a part of it. and that's very rare for an actor. >> rose: the movie oppose friday, may 24. will bthank you. >> thanks for having us. >> thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

this is on "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and susie gharib. wrought to you by -- >> the street.com. we help guide and generate income during a period of low interest rates. real money helps you think through idea for investing and trading stocks. action alerts plus, a charitable trust port foal why that provides trade by trade strategy. online, mobile, social media, we are thestreet.com. >> taxing hearing, denials, apologies and heated exchanges between irs officials and lawmakers on the hearing on capitol hill. did we get any answers? >> what a finish. another record for stocks, logging four straight weeks of gains. are things about to get