captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: president obama declared the u.s. is at crossroads in the war on terror and called for new guidelines and accountability in the pursuit of terrorists. good evening, i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, we excerpt the president's foreign policy address and get reaction to his proposals about the use of drones, the guantanamo bay prison and more. >> brown: then, we turn to an attack authorities in britain have called terrorism, the brutal murder of a soldier in london. >> woodruff: hari sreenivasan reports on the road to recovery in oklahoma, as the town of moore buried its first victim, a nine-year-old girl and tackled the massive clean-up after monday's tornado. >> the massive cleanup after monday's tornado. >> we got in here as quick as we

could, and when we were in here there were jackhammers going and cutting torches and trying to take bits and pieces away at a time. >> brown: in the second in our series on immigration reform, ray suarez looks at the debate over allowing more high-skilled foreigners to work in the u.s. >> woodruff: and with sexual assaults in the military on the rise, kwame holman explores ways to prevent and prosecute the crimes. >> we are raising the awareness level. people are now familiar with what these crimes actually are. especially those contact crimes when they would not have considered that sexual assault a long time ago. >> brown: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i want to make things more secure. ♪ ♪

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literacy in the 21st century. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the president used a wide-ranging speech today to try to reframe america's approach to fighting terrorism. in so doing, he tackled some of the most controversial elements of his administration's national security policy. >> from our use of drones to the detention of terrorist suspects, the decisions we are making will define the type of nation and world that we leave to our children. >> woodruff: the president aimed to redefine not just the tactics but the overall approach to countering terrorists, at the national defense university in

washington. >> neither i, nor any president, can promise the total defeat of terror. what we can do-- what we must do is dismantle networks that pose a direct danger, and make it less likely for new groups to gain a foothold, all while maintaining the freedoms and ideals that we defend. beyond afghanistan, we must define our effort not as a boundless global war on terror, but rather as a series of persistent, targeted efforts to dismantle specific networks of violent extremists that threaten america. >> woodruff: part of narrowing that effort is curtailing the use of unmanned drone strikes. the administration has relied heavily on drones to take out terrorist suspects in pakistan, yemen and somalia, but it faces mounting criticism. just yesterday, in a letter to senators, attorney general eric holder officially acknowledged drones have killed four american

citizens in countries that are not war zones: radical muslim cleric anwar al- awlaki, who was directly targeted in yemen, as well as his teenage son abdulrahman, along with samir khan and jude kenan mohammed. today, the president defended the use of drones, but he acknowledged they are no cure- all and often kill the innocent. >> it is a hard fact that u.s. strikes have resulted in civilian casualties, a risk that exists every war. for the families of those civilians, no words or legal construct can justify their loss. for me, and those in my chain of command, these deaths will haunt us as long as we live. >> woodruff: ahead of the speech, the president signed new

guidelines that his aides said will curtail the use of drones. he also outlined new plans to close the prison facility at the guantanamo naval base. he initially made that pledge in 2009, but he's encountered strong resistance from congress, and other countries. >> i know the politics are hard. but history will cast a harsh judgment on this aspect of our fight against terrorism, and those of us who fail to end it. >> woodruff: illustrating the emotions on that issue, a protester repeatedly interrupted the president as he addressed guantanamo. >> obviously, i do not agree with much of what she said and obviously she wasn't listening to me in much of what i said, but these are tough issues. >> woodruff: republican senators john mccain and lindsey graham said today they could support

closing guantanamo, if they see a plan for doing so. but they warned the president's overall direction on terror policy is projecting weakness to the world. >> brown: and we explore the president's speech now. harold koh worked on many of these issues as legal advisor tr president obama until january of this year. he's a professor of international law at yale university. pardiss kebriaei is a senior staff attorney at the center for constitutional rights. she and her group have led legal challenges to the administration over both drone strikes and guantanamo. and danielle pletka is former staffer on the senate committee on foreign relations and now the vice president of foreign and defense policy studies at the american enterprise institute. welcome all. harold koh, a reframing, a rebalancing of how we see and fight terrorism. is that what we heard today, and did you think the president got it right? >> i think there were two important things. the first was that he made the speech at all. this is a time when lot of other

things are going on. he could have avoided it. he not only owned it but he framed it and explained the strategy. he narrowed the war on terror to what we're really trying to do which is to defeat al qaeda, the taliban, and associated forces. and he defined the role of guantanamo and drones within that as a tool. and he said both of them need to be disciplined, that drones need to be subject to clearer standard rules and more transparent and guantanamo needs to be closed. i think he did a very good job repositioning the policy back to his values. >> brown: pardiss kebriaei, i pick up first on the drone issue because that was put in this larger context. the president talked of being more transplant, but he also made perhaps his strongest case for their use. what's your response? >> you know, i think that it was

important. his description of a future where the united states responds to terrorism the way virtually every other country in the world does, which is through their ordinary domestic laws and ordinary international laws was important and where the laws of war, the use of military force under the laws of war is the exception and not the rule. but that was in the future. and as for today and for an indeterminindeterminate point mg forward i heard a reassertion of a very flawed premise that supports the targeting killing program which is of global war. he said we are still 12 years after the fact at war with al qaeda and undefined, unknown associated forces, and i think that seemed to be very much a continuation of the problem, of a programs that has resulted in thousands of people dead. yes, there were-- there was an outline of narrower standards for targeting individuals.

that was important. ity are mains to be seen how the standards are interpreted. he referenced imminence and infeesibility of capture. i don't know is that prior interpretations that i've seen by the justice department of imminence for example, necessarily engenders a great deal of confidence about how those standards will be interpreted. i think the fundamental premise of the program remains. >> brown: danielle pletka, coming at it from a different side of things. first, picking up on the drone issue, what did you hear? >> i heard the president direct an issue yesterday of a different use drones going into the future. i don't believe any of us have seen it, so i don't know what the specifics are, what the president suggested was that they will not be using drones in the future if they cannot guarantee that there are no civilian deaths. if that is accurate, i don't think that that's a meetable standard. >> brown: you think he's

crimping himself too much. >> well, perhaps that's his intention. i don't-- i don't think it's a meetable standard. obviously, i think that up until now, the president has made every effort as any president would to ensure that civilians aren't killed when we need to target and attack terrorists. on the other hand, people find themselveses in bad places all the time and these are the consequences of war. but the important thing to understand-- and i think this is really what didn't come through in the speech-- is that the president seemed to imply that we somehow have chosen war, and that we can choose to end a war. and the reality is that war chooses us. that's what happened on september 11. and this war will end when we have defeated these groups. the problem is that we haven't defeated them. rather, they've expanded rather dramatically over the last few years to country where's they were not operating before. >> brown: harold koh, you heard both criticisms from two different directions here. >> i think both are missing the

forest for the trees. the question is, obviously, something extraordinary happened on september 11, and for 12 years, an extraordinary paradigm was used to combat that. the question the president was asking today is, is there an exit strategy or is it perpetual and boundless? and he said i'm choosing exit strategy. and he said it's going to be narrower. the approach that's going to be sustainable going forward is going to combine some elements, like force, but with many other tools that have developed because the nature of the threat has itself changed. so he will use law enforcement, he will use civilian court. he will use military courts if necessary. but he will fix those pieces of it it it that he thinks have gone in the wrong direction. he thinks guantanamo is a mistake and thinks drones need to be disciplined, and that's bringing this into a zone of a war that can be ended and not a war that will continue forever. that is a very, very significant announcement. >> brown: pardiss kebriaei, i pick up on that, particularly

vis-a-vis guantanamo. >> well, just with respect to the war issue, the war paradigm, i mean, i think a point given of disagreement is about whether the use of force under the laws of war or choosing to respond under law enforcement is a matter of a policy preference. i think there are many of us who believe that's a matter of law and fact. the administration cannot simply assert that we are in war. it depends on objective criteria under the law and it depends whether the facts meantime the criteria. that's a basic point of disagreement. >> brown: let me stop you there if i could before you get to guantanamo. danielle pletka, if you could pick up on that because that is addressing your question when are we at war and how do we decide? >> it's an interesting question. honestly, it's not one that should be directed at me. you're the former legal adviser at the department of state. the president is in fact operating under the authorities granted to him by congress. and those assume that we are at war. are we not?

>> he said that congress had declared war against a very narrow group on september 2001, al qaeda the taliban, and associated forces. and he said he wants that war to end. and that at the very end of the speech, which is far and away the most important part, he said because the state of perpetual war distorts freedom, he wants it to end. and, therefore, his focus will be on not signing a new a.m.u.f., and refusing to expand its mandate. so the question is, again, exit strategy versus perpetual war. and he said i'm choosing exit strategy. we're not done but we will be done and we're shifting to a more normal paradigm for dealing with these problems. >> brown: do you want to pick up on that gee we're having this strange clinical discussion mr. bwhether we're at war. i think that the sine qua non of most conflicts is that there is an enemy and that enemy still seeks to fight you and that enemy still seeks to destroy you, and that enemy continues to

attack you. we saw that in boston. we saw that in benghazi. we see it in afghanistan and pakistan. we see it in yemen. we see it in lots of places i could continue listing. the notion that this is somehow a rhetorical exercise-- did president roosevelt come out and say, "we need to end this war with germany," or did he want us to win this war. did president reagan say we need to end this cold war because i'm sickave perpetual war? i don't understand that. >> let me bring pardis back in go ahead. >> i think what the united states is dealing with is terrorism, acts of terrorism. there are allies of the united states, most countries in the world that have dealt with terrorism, on mass acts of violence of terrorist violence on their own soil before 9/11 and after 9/11. and the way that, tha that couns typically deal with those threats is through ordinary laws. the laws of war and armed

conflicts are exceptions, and that exception has now swallowed the rule. we have been talking about a war paradigm for 12 years. and it's, again, though a matter of objective criteria under internal law that determined whether we're in armed conflict. it has to do with the nature of the groups, and the intensity of fighting. it is not simply a political determination. >> brown: harold koh? >> i don't think either of the previous speakers read the speech that closely. what he said, quite frankly, was there is a particular enemy against whom we declared war in september 2001, al qaeda, the taliban and associated forces. we are fighting them and our goal is to defeat them. there are other people who are coming along who are dangerous also self-radicalizers, people involved in benghazi. and he said we're not at war with them. we can deal with them through traditional tools. so the challenge is, number one, how to end the first war, the one which we have declared, and secondly, how to not extend that

war paradigm to everybody who comes along. he describes the way in which counter-terrorism against other new foes is much more like it was before 9/11. he's talking about ending the aberrational paradigm and shifting to a sustainable response that includes things like law enforcement tools and does not include things like guantanamo. >> brown: all right, all of this to be continued, i promise. harold koh, danielle pletka, pardiss kebriaei, thank you all very much. >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": the gruesome murder of a soldier in london; a day of mourning in oklahoma; visas for foreign-born high tech workers and efforts to curb sexual assault in the military. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: the u.s. house >> the i.r.s. announced today it has replaced lois lerner the official in charge of the agents who did the targeting.

the associated press reported she has been placed on administrative leave. lerner has insisted she did nothing wrong. yesterday she refused to answer a house committee's questions, citing her right against self-incrimination. the u.s. house voted today to peg federal student loan rates to those set by financial markets. republicans said it will forestall a doubling of the current rates-- set to take effect on july first-- and divorce the issue from politics. democrats warned the move to variable rate loans could lead to higher costs in coming years, if market rates rise. >> we want to help students. we want to give them certainty, and we want them not to reply lye on the whims of politicians here, and we want also not to put a burden on the american people and the taxpayer, not add, not add to that. >> this bill will hurt young people and middle class families who are already struggling with crushing student lone debt. the idea that as a country we make money on the pursuit by

young people of their education is plain wrong. >> sreenivasan: democrats want to keep the subsidized rates at 3.4% for another two years at a cost of $9 billion. the house bill is given little chance in the senate, where democrats have the majority. house republicans pushed through another bill last night to speed approval of the keystone oil pipeline, bypassing president obama. it applies to a stretch of pipeline from canada to nebraska. the president has delayed approval of that section, but he did okay work on the southern portion of the pipeline extending to texas. that bill, too, is expected to die in the senate. the boy scouts of america will allow openly gay scouts to join the organization. it followed a close vote by the boy scouts national council in texas. the decision came after the national executive board deferred in february. the change is effective in january. a ban on gay adult leaders

remains in place. on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average lost 12 points to close at 15,294. the nasdaq fell nearly four points to close at 3,459. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to judy. >> woodruff: british investigators are piecing together the brutal murder of a soldier yesterday. the daytime attack took place in the woolwich area of south london. 25-year-old lee rigby was hacked to death by two men armed with knives. the attackers stayed at the scene, one even speaking to a bystander filming the aftermath. a warning: the images are graphic. the video shows the man holding two knives, his hands covered in blood. after that, police arrived and shot the men who were taken to a hospital. we begin with a report from lucy manning of "independent television news." >> reporter: to those leaving flowers at the barracks, he was the unknown soldier. but drummer lee rigby of the second battalion of the royal

ridgeiment is the soldier whose death has shocked the country. the 25-year-old from manchester, known as "riggers" witty, cheeky, humorous and a loving father to his son, jack, just two years old. a british soldier killed not in war but at home. >> this was a senseless murder of a soldier who served the army faithfully in a variety of roles, including operational niewrs afghanistan and our thoughts today are with his family and loved ones who are trying to come to terms with this terrible loss. >> reporter: we also learned the name of one of the men suspected of killing him. michael adebolajo, born in britain with a nigerian background, he studied at greenwich university, the 28-year-old a convert to islam. >> we must fight them as they fight us. an eye for an eye, a tooth fair tooth. >> reporter: sources confirm

both suspects were already known to the security services. although source says both the suspects' names defeature in security service investigations, they say there was no assessment they were planning an attack, and many names do come before the security services in their investigations. there will be questions for the police and security services. one suspect, sources say, was stopped last year trying to go to somalia. but for now, this is all about the investigation into drummer rigby's death. so the police searched houses across the country linked to the suspects. a flat in greenwich where he'd studied, in lincoln believed to be the home of michael adebolajo's father, the police arrived. his parents are said to be devout christians. and in rumford, where he grew up and went to school. at the woolwitch barracks, the flag at half-mast, the prime minister arrived to meet the soldiers who said drummer rigby was at the heart of the platoon, always with a smile on his face.

earlier at downing street, a resolute prime minister insisted we will never give in to terror. >> on our televisions last night, and in our newspapers this morning, we have all seen images that are deeply shocking. the people who did this were trying to divide us. they should know something like this will only bring us together and make us stronger. >> reporter: leigh rigby was a drummer, a man who entertained with music, a true warrior who came home from afghanistan but met his death on the streets of the country that he served. >> woodruff: prime minister cameron singled out a bystander 48-year-old ingrid loyau- kennett for her bravery. the french-born former teacher came face-to-face with one of the suspects just moments after yesterday's attack. she told i.t.n.'s mary nightingale he had a revolver and knives. >> i looked at him and saw he had a revolver and a butcher's knife and a butcher's hatchet?

something when you cut the bones. so i said okay, what happened? >> you were speaking directly to him? >> oh yeah. i said okay, what happened. he said he's a british soldier. he killed people in muslim lands. >> i can imagine that some people would have thought it was more sensible to keep back? >> what for? to have them being upset and rushing somebody? you know my thing is the better defense is the attack. so if you want to keep things calm, go first. do things yourself, first. don't wait for something to happen because you lose control at that moment. >> brown: the people of moore, oklahoma began saying farewell today to the victims of monday's tornado disaster.

at the same time, cleanup crews dodged more bad weather. hari is back with our report on day three since the twister hit. >> sreenivasan: hundreds of people turned out for the first of 24 funerals. this one, for nine-year-old antonia candelaria. she was one of seven children killed at the plaza towers elementary school. six of those children suffocated after being buried under bricks and steel. another was hit and killed by a heavy stone or beam. today, on what would have been the last day of school, students gathered at moore high school hoping to find a sense of closure. >> we think it's important for the kids to be able to see their classmates, to see who's doing all right, to be able to talk to their friends again and be with their teachers. it was quite an experience on monday afternoon, and once the tornado was over they went home. so this is the first opportunity to come back to the school. >> sreenivasan: thousands of

others are also trying to come to grips with the aftermath of a tornado that topped the scale, as an f-5 and damaged or destroyed up to 13,000 homes. oklahoma governor mary fallin says the enormity of the loss has turned day-to-day life into a struggle. >> i've had people come up and say i've lost my purse, i've lost my billfold, i don't have identification. we've been working with our health dept for those that have lost their birth certificates. those that need death certificates. there are many different issues facing people. >> sreenivasan: one of the hardest hit areas is the district of state representative mark mcbride. 80% of his constituents were in the path of the tornado, as he heard wednesday. >> hey man, you live here? >> no, guy i worked with did. >> oh yeah? >> his girlfriend rode it out in there. >> rode it out in that? >> yep, she crawled out where that guy's carrying that coat. she crawled out of there. >> really? >> really. >> sreenivasan: the plaza towers school is also in mcbride's

district. on monday, he helped dig through the wreckage in search of children. >> we got in here as quick as we could, i mean we were in here firefighters, everyone had jack hammers going and cutting torches and loaders and just try and take bits and pieces away at a time. >> sreenivasan: danny silva's little girl attends second grade at plaza towers. he got her out of school, before the storm hit, and into a neighbor's shelter. >> i said, let's go let's go, we were pushing, pushing in. nine kids and five adults, we had a problem shutting the hatch and once we closed it and locked it up it took about 30 seconds and it was like the space shuttle was above us. >> sreenivasan: they all survived, but silva said he knew all seven of the children who died at the school. >> it's heartbreaking. i saw the names today. it's horrible because i know those kids, and one of them is my daughter's best friend. it's horrible.

>> sreenivasan: neither silva nor state representative mcbride say they believe a storm shelter at the school would have made a difference. >> i don't think anyone could have prevented this. i really don't, unless you put the school underground, ha. there's really nothing. they did everything they could. >> well, you know there is nothing you can do about an f-5 tornado. i mean it is the big daddy, i mean it came in here, i don't know if a storm shelter or anything would have stopped it, i mean it was coming through and tearing anything in it's path. not a normal f2, f3 something that we normally get. it was i mean you can just look around and see, it wiped everything off the foundation. >> sreenivasan: despite the destruction, susan pierce, the local superintendent of schools promised today that the system will work all summer to be ready for the new school year. >> we will rebuild and we will reopen. and we will have school in august. we will do whatever it takes to take care of our students, their families and our school staff. >> sreenivasan: for now, cleanup

crews are still coping with bad weather-- a new band of thunderstorms that dropped more rain today, renewing fears of another twister. but despite the weather, governor fallin says workers are attacking the mountains of debris that extend as far as the eye can see. >> our main task now is to work on recover for the various communities, the debris removal itself, to get utilities back up and operational streets opened, businesses opened to help the families certainly get into their communities to be able to retrieve their personal items and goods. we have professional debris removal crews that are stationed and there are also a lot of volunteer organizations that have come forward saying what can we do to help. >> sreenivasan: hundreds of volunteers have already cleaned the cemetery in moore, for memorial day. the weekend will also bring more funerals for the tornado's victims, president obama's visit on sunday and a community prayer service on sunday night. >> brown: and there's much more

online, where one of our reporters on the ground has written of her experience and sted photos she shot of the destruction. >> woodruff: on capitol hill today, senate majority leader harry reid announced a comprehensive immigration proposal will be debated in june. and house republicans said they won't vote on the senate version, but will pull together their own legislation instead. we continue our conversations about the issue in our series, "inside immigration reform." ray suarez has that. >> suarez: tonight's focus: the number of highly skilled foreign workers allowed to enter the u.s. we examine how the visa program known as h-1b is structured now and the proposed changes with vivek wadhwa, a fellow at stanford law school and author of the book: "the immigrant exodus: why america is losing the global race to capture entrepreneurial talent." and ron hira, associate

professor of public policy at rochester institute of technology. professor hira, the united states admits about a million immigrants a year. is it a relatively small share of that million that we're talking about with the h-1b visas? >> well, actually, we admit about 1 million permanent residents each year, and about 140,000 or so are high-skilled permanent residents, that's green cards. the h-1b is actually a guest worker program, and in there, in the guest worker program we admit about 115,000 a year. there's a cap of 85,000. i think there are actually two separate numbers and separate programs. one is a guest worker program, one is a green card program. >> suarez: vivek wadhwa, why do companies need these workers? aren't americans prepared to do these jobs in sufficient numbers? >> companies need these skills

that these foreign workers provide. right now, technology is driving our economy. we're solving major problems using technology. we're advancing u.s. competitiveness using technology. the technology industry needs all the bright people it can get to help it build these new technologies and improve our economy. >> suarez: is there any burden on the companies, vivek wadhwa, to demonstrate they first tried to locate americans to do these jobs? >> the anti-immigrant groups and people like professor hira have been haranguing companies for hiring foreign workers as if hiring foreign workers is evil so they're on the defensive. the new bills raise barriers. they require a lot of extra documentation. they have to prove they're not taking the jobs of american workers away, and it's leading to negativity about hiring foreigners. again, american companies are trying to compete. they're trying to make america a better place. they're trying to create more jobs for americans. and we're holding them back because of our flawed

immigration policies. >> suarez: ron hira, how do you respond to that accusation from vivek wadhwa? >> well, i think the facts are pretty clear that in fact americans-- these companies don't have to look for americans workers first. in the bill, the wait of way it's written right now, they would have to collect resumes, but they don't actually have to hire americans, and they could displace americans. so they can, clearly, bypass american workers, and there's an incentive for them to do so. even though the bill does raise the wage floors for h-1bs a little bit, they're still below market wages. they're still cheaper. so there's a real incentive to bring in these guest workers because they can be paid below market wages, less than american workers. plus they're tied to the employer. the employer controls the visa program. >> suarez: so looking back over the history of this program, professor, what effect have those h-1b workers had on the tech job market in the united states, in your view? >> well, i think it's had a significantly negative effect overall.

i think there are some really highly talented workers who come in on h-1bs. that's a really good parent of it. and many of the companies do sponsor them for permanent residents. but there's an increasing share of employers who are really using it for cheaper labor. what that does is it has a negative effect in terms of undercutting american wages and job opportunities for incumbent workers. it also discourages american students from studying these fields. the typical h-1b worker who really has ordinary skills is working in a back office area in id, and and oftentimes they're taking jobs americans are already doing, so they're actually displacing american workers in many cases. >> suarez: vivek wadhwa, is that not the case? aren't american worker workers o these kinds of jobs disadvantaged by entry from people in the places in the world where that kind of work just costs less? >> ray, i live in silicon valley. if you talk to any executive in silicon valley, talk to any

company, they can't find enough workers to help them build competitive technologies. there is a dire shortage of skills over here. yes, there are some unemployed workers in parts of america who have the wrong skills. sadly, that's a big problem, and these are the people who professor hira is talking about. but in the tech world, we need more innovators. we need more entrepreneurs. we need more people who can solve global problems and companies are desperately looking for them. are they cheaper-- is it cheaper to bring in foreign labor? i don't know about that. look at facebook, google, these companies don't care about the cost of labor. they care about the quality of labor. they're look for people who can build technols and help them become competitive. so what you hear on that side and what you hear in silicon valley is completely different. it's like a different universe talking to us here in the valley. we're starved for talent here. that's as simple as it is. >> suarez: so vivek wadhwa, you have been advocating for a different regime here. does the senate proposal address

some of your misgivings about h-1b as it existed? >> it's a highly imperfect bill but it's better than nothing and i support it. so the answer is yes, it does. it does create more visas. it does allow the brilliant students that come here to study to say. it does go a long way in fixing the problem, and we need it badly. >> suarez: ron hira, the same question, does the new senate proposal address some of the misgivings you've had about h-1b over the years? >> it did more until the final part of the mark-up where senator hatch expraelt technology industry really used its political muscle and campaign money to really change the bill significantly. i think there are some saved guards in the bill, but there's a really large increase of h-1bs, and i think the reality is it doesn't fix the fundamental flaws which is h-1b guest workers can be paid below-market wages so the wage floors are still too low. and that companies can bypass

american workers and even displace american workers with guest workers. >> suarez: quickly, what would do you to change it? >> well, i think there are two really pretty easy fixes, straightforward fixes. one suraise the wage floor to at least the average wage. these are the best and brightest, as mr. wadhwa calls them. they should at least be paid average american wage wages. you raise the wage floor to that average level, and the second thing do you is require them to actually recruit, and if they find qualified american worksers, they actually hire american workers purpose and secondly, you don't displace american workers. look for american workers first, give them a legitimate shot, and then turn to the h-1b guest workers. >> suarez: and final suggested fix from vivek wadhwa? >> these are not like mcdonald workers where one is equal to another. the person who can build an iphone or world-changing app is completely different than the people ron is describing. i don't know why he says average

people-- i was one of the people who came here on a temporary visa and iented up creating one company that hired 1,000 workers and made america more competitive, another that hired 250. these people are like me. they come here to work hard and innovate and make this country what it is. i don't know why he harangue our companies. our companies report evil. our senators aren't evil. they're trying to survive in the global competitive landed scape and create more jobs for americans. we have to get beyond this negativity. we have to make the pie bigger for everyone and create more jobs and fix this economy. that's what the technology companies in silicon valley are doing. >> suarez: gentlemen, we'll continue this debate. huff, ron hira, thank you >> brown: finally tonight, an update on the mounting problem of sexual assaults in the military. a recent pentagon survey

estimated 26,000 service members were victims of sexual crimes last year. only 3,400 of those assaults were actually reported to authorities. the latest case came yesterday. an army sergeant at the u.s. military academy at west point was charged with secretly video- taping female cadets in the bathrooms and showers. no one disputes the gravity of the problem-- the military's top official, general martin dempsey, called it a crisis. but there are arguments on what to do: kwame holman reports on efforts to prosecute the crimes and keep the assaults from happening in the first place. >> reporter: at a naval base in washington, the emphasis is on prevention. senior officers participate in a training program. the 90-minute class is called "take the helm." the teachers-- some of the navy's most experienced instructors and lawyers-- show a movie depicting off-duty sailors. in one scene, they're drinking and partying carousing that could end with a sexual assault.

>> not in my room >> reporter: in another, sailors on board ship engage in sexually suggestive behavior. the officers are given pointers on how to recognize potentially dangerous situations and how to intervene to stop them. >> think back to the hotel party... we know alcohol was involved. how does chl play a role in sexual assault? >> it lowers our judgment. >> okay. >> reporter: classes such as these are a high priority, everyone in uniform is required to attend at some point. senior chief ronald shasky is a navy instructor. >> we have evidence that through by-stander intervention our new sailors coming into the navy are acclimated and educated on being empowered to step in when sailors are in bad situations. >> reporter: lt. commander nell evans is a navy lawyer. >> we are raising the awareness level.

people are now familiar with what these crimes actually are. especially those contact crimes where they would not have considered that sexual assault, a long time ago. so i think we see this increase. >> reporter: grabbing, touching in... >> grabbing touching in the bathing suit area. >> reporter: another part of the navy's effort involves intervening with sailors off duty. in one small scale experiment, senior non-commissioned officers on shore patrol in san diego look out for drinking that might get out of hand. the defense department estimates half of female servicemembers who were assaulted said they or their assailant had been drinking. but is better training up and down the ranks and awareness of the problem of sexual assault enough to solve the problem. many outside the military say no. >> reporter: a bipartisan group of senators wants another response. new york democrat kirsten gillibrand says it's time to change how military justice is administered. men and women in the military operate in close proximity and under the strict control of

their commanders. currently, those commanders have sole authority to decide whether a sexual assault case is prosecuted and the power to reverse a conviction afterward. but commanders can be show favoritism and bias when handling sexual assault in their ranks, says gillibrand. her proposal would remove commanders from the judicial process anytime a subordinate is charged with any serious crime. instead the decision whether to prosecute would be made by professional investigators and lawyers. >> today, we are standing strong and united to take this issue head on, with new legislation that removes decision-making from the chain of command and gives that discretion to experienced trial counsel with prosecutorial experience, where it belongs. this is the only way we can provide unbiased justice that our victims need. >> reporter: former airman first class jessica hinves was an f-15 mechanic.

she recently was profiled in the oscar-nominated documentary "the invisible war." she says she was raped in january 2009 at nellis air force base. >> he pinned me against a wall, in front of everybody, and was telling me all these sexual things he was going to do. >> i'd made it clear i wasn't interested in him. the advancements were not flattering. the next night, i don't know what indication he had to come in my room. it wasn't, as general walsh says, a hookup culture, this was sexual assault and rape. i let him know, even before the rape, when he was just touching me, that that's not what i wanted, i wanted it to stop, i didn't want him in my room. >> reporter: hinves case was investigated by the air force for more than a year and she said, during that time, some fellow service members blamed her for what happened. >> people were upset at me that i was getting him in trouble. that's what people were telling me. why are you getting him in trouble, why are you doing this? you know this is his life, this is his career.

it's just sex, just get over it. you know move on, move on from this. >> reporter: hinves says the air force investigation found enough evidence to warrant a court martial on rape charges for the assailant. but the colonel in charge of hinves's unit overruled that decision. >> two days before the court hearing his commander called me at a conference at the jeg office, and he said he didn't believe he acted like a gentleman but there wasn't a reason to prosecute. i was speechless, i didn't even know that was an option. legal had been saying this was going to go through the court, we had the court date set for months, and two days before his commander stopped it. i later found out the commander had no legal background and he'd only been in command for four days. >> reporter: hinves story is not an isolated case. at the capital hill news conference last week, others said the chain of command had thwarted justice for them. former air force technical

sergeant jennifer norris. >> i am a veteran and survivor of ray and harassment in the military. when i did come forward to my command, i became one of far too many who fall victim to manipulation and abuse of authority by perpetrators who are higher ranking and have more credibility with those who are in charge. >> reporter: men were the victims in more than half of the estimated 26,000 cases of sexual misconduct assaults in the military last year. brian lewis was a petty officer third class in the navy. >> a superior noncommissioned officer raped me, while i was stationed aboard the u.s.s. frank cable. after the rape, i was told by my command not to file a formal report with the naval criminal investigative service. when i was reassigned to seek

medical help, my psychiatrist told me that i was lying about the rape and diagnosed me with a personality disorder. >> reporter: the new defense secretary, former senator chuck hagel, has vowed to tackle the problem. >> this department may be nearing a stage where the frequency of this crime and the perception that there is tolerance of it could very well undermine our ability to effectively carry out the mission and recruit and retain the good people we need. that is unacceptable to me and the leaders of this institution. >> reporter: hagel has ordered rules requiring direct accountability from commanders for achieving a non-harassing environment and more help for sexual assault victims. and since only congress can change military law, hagel wants new legislation to prohibit commanders from reversing court- martial convictions for serious crimes. in march it came to light that an army general overturned the rape conviction of a subordinate. fueling the drive to eliminate

that power. a house bill introduced today by ohio republican michael turner would do just that. and turner also calls for but turner would not go as far as senator gillibrand and take the cases out of the military chain of command. instead he would move adjudication up the chain for generals and admirals to decide instead of lower ranking colonels. >> our goal has been to raise it in the chain of command, making it so that you don't have the people that are actually all working together and have relationships and bias, and also then again making it a performance criteria for promotion in how they handle those cases. >> reporter: but the pentagon's director of sexual assault prevention and response says commanders can and should continue to have authority over serious cases such as sexual assault. army major gen. gary patton: >> we need to have commanders more involved in the solution to this problem, not less involved. and we want them more involved

because we know it's important to set the right climate. commanders lead by example. they set standards. >> reporter: sexual assault prevention trainer lt. commander evans says taking away leaders' ability to decide punishments diminishes their authority. >> the commanding officer makes the ship go. he is the end all be all. and if he doesn't have the authority to put his money where is mouth is, then chaos can break out and he has no back bone. he has nothing to fall back on. so it's so important that he be able to administer swift justice if necessary. >> reporter: senator gillibrand told us she would protect that authority for many offenses. >> we've made exceptions for military specific crimes: things like not charging up a hill, or going awol, absent without leave. those are the kinds of crimes we believe a military commander should handle, because it does help them maintain good order and discipline. but for these violent, serious crimes like rape, and murder and sexual assault, they really need to be elevated to a criminal justice system that is run by trained prosecutors and judges.

>> we can beat this problem, everyone of us. >> reporter: meanwhile sexual assault prevention training continues for every sailor in the navy. the army, air force and marines all have similar programs. >> brown: you can read more about jessica hinves' story and how she's coping after leaving the air force. that's on our homepage. >> woodruff: for more on this i'm joined now by vikram dodd, a senior reporter at "the guardian" in london. welcome to the "newshour." first of all, what is known about the two men behind this? they're both british citizens? >> good evening. what's known is not a lot about one of them, the person we suspect is 22 years old. the 28-year-old, the one you see in the dramatic video, the one

brandishing the knives and justifying the murder, the attack as a strike against the west. we know a lot more about him. we have a name. we know he was born a christian to parents of nigerian heritage. we know that his mother was concerned about him getting into trouble with a gang and moved the family out of london into a rural area of england. he came bam to london. we know he studied. we know he became a convert to islam in about 2003. we know he was tutored by an extremist cleric, so extreme he was banned from the united statessed kingdom, and we know there are reports he was seen in recent handing out what would be considered extremist literature, pretty close to the area where the the attack was carried out. >> woodruff: there was one report of a woman who lived in the neighborhood who said she

thought she had seen the two in the street preachin preaching ag out literature. i see they are being charged with conspiracy put certainly there's something very odd about the fact they stayed around after this happened, they talked to bystanders. what are authorities saying about that? >> what authorities are saying about that is not a lot. compared to where you work, your authorities are amazingly open compared to ourselves. i can tell you there have been some developments in the last few hours. what has happened is the two suspected attackers were arrested at the scene, and this evening, two more people have been arrested, a man and a woman have been arrested, and they are being-- on suspicious of conspiracy to murder. part of the original thinking was maybe it was just these two people who carried it out. at the moment, there is a suspicion which police are trying to bottom out, which is a couple of more people may have been involved. >> woodruff: is there any-- how much experience has britain,

has london had in the recent period with domestic terrorism of anything that could be described as something like this. >> well, this is the first terrorist attack since july 7, 2005, to claim a life. over here we're extraordinarily used to terrorism. it used to be from an irish origin, from the i.r.a., and there have been multiple-- 20 and count ago attempted plots since you suffered the 9/11 attacks, and almost straight after that, there started to be plots which were disrupted. there's been a few which got all the way through the net and only failed because the bombs weren't properly constructed. but this is a very, very new style of attack, certainly in the united kingdom, i think in the united states as well, the west has experienced. somebody described it as a sort of baghdad-style attack of the

alleged terrorists, not using explosives, but using something as easily available as knives to select a victim. in fact, one casualty, which has a sort of almost to theemic significant, there have been repeated attempts and interest by al qaeda-inspired terroristss to attack a british soldier on british toil soil and kill him. there was a previous plot to kidnap and behead on a video that particular episode which was disrupted. but it's a new style of attack i think in the west. >> woodruff: very quickly, vikram dodd, the authorities using the worth "terrorist, ""terrorism," in connection with this? >> they certainly are. i think partly it's that video of the man talking in rhetoric which you can absolutely see the linkages back to al qaeda-inspired rhetoric, a reference to bin laden foreign land speech which is one of bin

laden's most famous, important speeches. that i think at this stage is what has made them treat this as a terrorist incidence. we have had the emergency crisis commission over here meeting. the investigation is at an early stage but they're treating it as a terrorist attack. >> woodruff: gruesome, gruesome images. vikram dodd, we thank you very much for talking with us. >> brown: again, the major developments of the day: president obama declared the u.s. is at a crossroads in the war on terror and he called for new guidelines on drone attacks and a new effort to close the prison at guantanamo. and the boy scouts organization voted to drop its long-standing ban on openly gay scouts. >> woodruff: online, an economist's take on climate change. hari sreenivasan has more. >> sreenivasan: carbon dioxide levels hit an unprecedented 400 parts per million. no one knows exactly what that milestone means, but a harvard economist argues that's no excuse for inaction. read that on making sense. all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org.

jeff? >> brown: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with david brooks and ruth marcus, among others. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> more than two years ago, the people of b.p. made a commitment to the gulf. and everyday since, we've worked hard to keep it. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy. we shared what we've learned so that we can all produce energy more safely. b.p. is also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger.

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specialized solutions and capital to help you meet your growth objectives. we offer expertise and tailored solutions for small businesses and major corporations. what can we do for you? >> and now "bbc world news." >> this is "bbc world news america" reporting from washington. president obama makes the case for drone strikes in a broad national security address. has takenstates lethal targeted action against al qaeda al qaeda and its associated forces. including with remotely piloted aircraft commonly referred to as drones. >> in london, the soldier tha