>> rose: welcome to the program, we begin with john mccain who just returned from syria and talks about the civil war there, and what will the united states, what role the united states could play in the conflict. >> we have to contact a civilian group and have coordination between that and the military and we have to secure the chemical weapon sites and it is going to be a very long, hard, difficult controversy, controversial effort, but compare that with the other option, which is the status quo now of possible ba able to subdue to a very prolonged conflict the population of syria, how many more people have to die, charlie? >> >> rose: we conclude with rahm emanuel the mayor of chicago and why he thinks that it is the greatest job in the world. >> this is the single greatest job i have had in public life, i have had great jobs, i just saw presiden clinton, president obama, i loved working for both

of them. >> local government is the closest people to how the people live their lives and if you are interested in education, parks, lie brairdz, universities, this is where it affects their lives. >> rose: mccain and emanuel, when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. additional funding provided by these funders.

and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: the civil war in syria continues, the conflict which reached new levels when rebel forces hezbollah fight in other words a violent border region the death toll stands at more than 80,000, calls by action for the world community rise, there is a possibility of. >> john mccain returned from a secret visit to syria and he remained united states can a and should pray a more active role, i am pleased to have senator mccain back at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie, it is nice to be back with you. >> >> you did not tell us you were

going. >> no, this is the best way to have it leaked to tell my daughter mehegan. >> rose: and put it to the press. >> and it would have been tweeted in a new york minute. no we tried not to tell anybody. >> rose: it was security and -- >> yes. >> reasons. >> yes. >> what did you discover? and are you confident that what you saw was not something people wanted you to see? >> well, i saw a group of men and these are main that i visited both in turkey and in syria that had been fighting, some of them for over two years, they are battle hardened, they are tough. they are dedicated to winning, but there are also disappointed and angry that we haven't given them more assistance. i saw the tank commanders from all over syria, was there a certain amount of, you know,

best place, best foot forward? i think there is always is, he i think when our military is visited -- >> when you think of what is at stake they want to give a compelling reason to think we need to do something -- >> the commander of the military es scootered me in and -- and brought me and came back with me, se a fine leader,. >> rose: what did he say? >> he says that things are very tough now, that the bashar el-assad forces have received these reinforcements from hezbollah. he basically said everything we read about, the thousands of hezbollah are pouring in, the iranians revolutionary guard is in, the russians are stepping up their assistance and, again, and we are not really providing them

with any kind of commensurate help. >> rose: okay, but the conventional wisdom is the audit saudis are providing them things, the qatar government is, that they are all supports the sunnis in syria. that is the conventional wisdom. >> yes. and they are providing them with light weapons, ak-47s, don't do very well against tanks and the assets that are really the defining part of the battle equation is not -- they don't have the capabilities to take care of that, you want, with that terrain and weather air terrain is the key. >> we came in with our allies with their power and stopped them conventionally, drove them all the way back, right now, in kusear, a small town, as the vital link between damascus and the coast, there are some

thousands of hezbollah and others surrounding the town, meanwhile, the air attacks increase and you have got missile attacks on rebel forces that are inside there. there are as many as 800 wounded they have, these resistance fighters, they have no medicine, no way to treat and no way to get them out, i mean,. >> rose: and the red cross. >> bashar el-assad rejected allowing the red cross in, saying, quote, he will wait until the situation stabilizes. i don't think we have made clear enough the ferocity of this conflict. all civil wars are at but there is intentional rapes by the bashar el-assad troops, there is intentional wounding, there is mass killings, there is an indiscriminate bombardment of

scudz on the civil population. >> the list goes on. >> but you hear about atrocities on the other side as well. you do see not only stories but video? >> you know, charlie, you see that as isolated incidents of people who have just gotten so battle hardened and angry and this happens in warfare, what you see from the other side is orchestrated training and tactics to intimidate and you you the population from the bashar as sadr, bashar el-assad side, so it is dramatically different, horrible things are happening on both sides but but bashar el-assad's forces it is a tactic they use to intimidate and you you the population and if we could talk for a second about what has happened, we have seen it spill over now into lebanon and we have seen it in jordan, being overwhelmed by

refugees, now ten to 15 percent of the population of jordan is refugees, can you imagine if ten percent of our population, that would be 30 million people as refugees. king abdullah cannot stand if this continues. he now has a situation where the hezbollah is really all in, they have sent in thousands of fighters into the fight. >> rose: the way they have staked their future on survival of bashar el-assad? >> because if syria goes, they lose their link to iran. i was in yemen, the president of yemen said to me the greatest fear is not al qaeda, iran, the iranians are trying to do their mischief in yemen as well, but back to the battlefield situation and that is of course the russians now sending in sophisticated missiles and apparently are going to send in aircraft. how does that, the tide of

battle has turned against the resistance these freedom fighters and for a long time, all of our experts, the joint chief of staffs, secretary of defense, it is inevitable bashar el-assad will gall, it is inevitable, right now it is not inevitable because of the ratcheting up that has been gone on by russia, iran, hezbollah. >> rose: and in fact you say the tide has turned. >> that is everything, every indication that it is and it is turning into a regional conflict. >> okay. stay with the tide has turned for a second. if, in fact, his troops capture kursear, which matches him to alawite strongholds that is a significant advantage. >> that sat significant advantage. >> rose: and the battle has been taking place for ten days. >> there are and at least a

thousand killed and thousands wounded and again, the pounding from the air is really one of the really important factors. >> how would a no-fly zone work. >> it would work by us basically fly out of about four airfields and crater the runways. >> rose: we have whom. >> the united states of america could crater the runways with cruise missiles, and every time they would pave the runways we could crater them again and move the patriot missile batteries which are now in turkey and going to remain in jordan closer to the border and repel any air that may want to come into this fly stone, and believe me, and also these resistance forces need to is shoulder fired anti-air missiles if you that we don't have to put a boot on the ground and fly a manned aircraft over syria and look what the israelis did when they took out

twice stacials of equipment that, statutes of equipment that are weapons that were destined for hezbollah which would have upset the balance of power there or certainly given hezbollah added capabilities. so that is what we need to do, no american boots on the ground and a safe zone where these people who are in disarray, the opposition council could go in there and organize, cooperate with the military, and finally, the -- well, anyway, go ahead. >> rose: why don't they do that? why not a no-fly zone? >> our military would, with all respect, some of their leaders are told how hard it is going to be, one thing i love and respect our military, but if they don't want to do something they can find reasons not to do it. >> >> rose: so you don't think they want to do it because they don't want to be drawn into the conflict or believe. >> right and i believe they want the people who they work for

doesn't want it but general matt advertise the head of central command says we can do that, admiral rodriguez the former head of nato says we can do what i have, what i am telling you and i am guaranteeing you there are many military people who are not in that chain of command who would say that this is eminently doable, one other thing i want to add, we have got to plan on how, whatever happens in this conflict, these chemical weapon statutes, they are dangerous, they are weapons that have killed thousands of people. >> rose: and they are in the control of the syrian army now. >> they may not be in the case of bashar losing, that would have to be an international operation of cooperation. if those chemical weapons fell in the hands of hezbollah or other terrorist organizations -- and by the way they are good fighters. >> and what do you believe would happen if in fact it had not turned this way and let's assume

they had a no-fly zone and assume as sad falls, the unelf, inevitable question is what is the questionable what now? >> my judgment is it would be very difficult and every day that goes by, without us acting it is more difficult, think of when there were just demonstration twotion years ago if we had overthrown him them, how much easier the situation would be but we have to back this civilian group, we have to have coordination between them and the military and we have to secure these chemical weapon sites and it is going to be a very long, hard, difficult controversial effort, but compare that with the other option, which is the status quo now of possible bashar el-assad being able to subdue to a very prolonged conflict the population of syria, how many more people have to die, charlie? >> rose: you talked to king abdullah. >> yes. >> rose: what does he believe? he is a neighbor. he is of course disappointed

that we haven't done more, all of those leaders are. >> rose: he met with the president in washington. >> the president considers him a good friend. >> rose:. >> yes. >> rose: and a valuable friend. >> yes. >> it is well-known that king abdullah cannot remain in power with this flood of refugees and this continued conflict, it is well-known. >> rose: and the muslim brotherhood. >> exactly and the palestinian population which is in the majority. so king abdullah is deeply concerned and king abdullah wants us to do more but so does every other nation in the region, including the british and french who are not in the region. >> rose: i was talking to jeffrey goldberg who you know, a very. >> a very wiseman. >> rose: he seems to know the president's mind for good and obvious reasons he talks to the president. he didn't say that but clearly, a series of conversations first about king abdullah and then

president is clearly concerned about the united states being able to selectively participate and not be drawn into a looming regional war as you yourself suggested and we have no business there. and we can't enforce it without a massive injection of american support. >> well, first of all, let's put the strategic importance of what happens there. general mad disour matt advertise, general bashar el-assad is the greatest blow to iran in 25 years so if he wins the connection then hezbollah remains and the reign of terror continues in the region. >> rose: you are saying syria may become a failed state and may be ruled by a group of people who have no interest in good relationships with the united states? >> but not an ally of iran seeking to facilitate their

efforts to create mischief throughout the middle east. i mean i am not saying it will be a jeffersonian democracy and may be long an and difficult bu there is no doubt of the relationship between bashar el-assad and iran and hezbollah, that is what hezbollah is in, because bashar el-assad is their lifeline. >> rose: from iran. >> yes, from iran. so from a pure national security interest the president should not ignore that fact, second of all why did we go to bosnia and kosovo because there was a moral issue, exactly and we didn't go to the united nations security council to go to kosovo and we did it in bosnia and we stopped the genocide and the killing. everybody refers to afghanistan and iraq, understandably for good reason but there have been times when we have intervened with air powers and others have taken care of -- >> rose: you think that is the

model? >> i know that is the model. if we put american boots on the ground you would see a reaction which would help bashar el-assad immensely, we all know that then americans would be intervening in a way that would, we would have a great propaganda tool. >> rose: you know, you sit on the senate committee and talk to people from the secretary of defense and the secretary of state and the chairman of joint chiefs and all come to the commit tease that you sit on and you have an opportunity to talk to them, leon panetta, secretary clinton, former cia director competent address and the chairman of the joint chiefs all say they recommended. what did they recommend? >> they recommended arming the rebels a year or so ago and now they are saying, now it is too complicated, and that doesn't

mean we, does that mean we made a massive mistake and huge error by not arming them when we say we, they say we could to start with so there is massive judgment on one part if they thought we could be effective then but not now. >> if we do what is the judgment of history? >> i think it is it will be very harsh and it will be harsh if you believe 80,000 or more people have been massacred, if you believe there has been a million and a half displaced, of all of the credible things that are happening in that poor country and these kind of wars that people suffer the most are the innocent, i will never forget being in a refugee camp and a woman said to me, senator mccain you see these children here? all of these children? they are going to take revenge on those who refuse to help them. that would be a terrible legacy for the united states of america. >> rose: sometimes in harshness, john mccain will say you never saw a war you didn't like. >> i have heard that and i appreciate that and first of all i oppose sending marines to

lebanon and opposed sending troops to somalia. i believe that in 2006, 2004, 2005, 2006 i said ronald rumsfeld was conducting it wrong and in fact called for his resignation and said we can't win this way, we need to have the surge while all of the critics is a said the surge won't work, these same people and i understand that but i would argue that i have been correct in my assessment of the situation. i said if we didn't leave a residual force in iraq it would unravel and it is unravelling. this last month there was more killing in iraq than there has been in years. so -- >> rose: the supe tsunami miss , sunnis and shia conflict. >> yes. >> she used to come into iraq to kill americans and now they are leaving iraq to go to syria to fight there. >> rose: that is another thing when you talk about a regional war, there is always war inside

islam. >> yes, the sunni shia conflict. >> rose: it is spread over because most of the opposition are sunni and -- >> more and more. >> rose: alawites are an offshoot of chicago a. >> more and more you are seeing a shy a sunni, a shia war. >> rose: why would, why should we be involved in that? >> .. >> i would say i think the consequences are great, but is it sunni, shia, saudi arabia iraq, conflict within conflict within conflict, russia, u.s., and all of this? in danger of spilling over into the entire middle east. >> rose: including israel? >> including israel, the latest of course is israel twice has thought they had to send air strikes and now if you get some of these radical forces in the golan, it will be a flash point,

so, yes there is a great threat to israel. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> could i just say that i still believe in the united states of america, i still believe we can lead, i think we are still the greatest nation on earth, but i really wish that we would understand that there is no nation on earth that can lead and that is the united states of america. >> rose: there is a corollary. but they don't know who could stand up to that role. thank you. >> thank you. >> senator john mccain,ack in a moment, stay with us. >> rose: rahm emanuel is here, she the mayor of chicago, but he is no stranger to national politics. he served as a senior advisor in the clinton administration, and as a cock man from illinois and president obama's chief of staff he is tough and met tough challenges since winning the mayoral at this in. >> he .. faced high crime rate

and a teachers union. >> he is the on the cover of times magazine. >> president obama left to run a violent crime ridden city. i am pleased to have the mayor of chicago back on this program, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> so are you having the time of your life? >> yes, and in the sense of i think there is the most interesting job i have had, i am blessed working for two great presidents and representing the north side as you noted in congress, but rather than talk, you can actually do things, and give you a classic example, negotiated for president, the race to the top on education which i enjoyed doing and i thought it was important to do, we were just given the children of the city of chicago for the first time from the shortest school day to a full school day and a full school year for the first time, kids don't have to pick between math or music, they will get math and music, reading or recess, they will get both and that's 403,000 children, a

full school day without any federal assistance for the first time, every child going to school next year gets a full school day, many kids used to get a half day, in the next four years every child in the city of chicago will be in seven minute walk of a new park in the city, seven minute walk. >> rose: i can go on with the list but to illustrate the point you can actually implement part of your reform agenda and see it through and on education, which is primary, we are actually seeing, we just had the best graduation rates two years running in the city's history. >> rose: but also you closed 50 schools. >> >> rose: no mayor has ever closed 50 schools. >> charlie, those, that was very difficult, it is a very difficult thing to do, as you know we have deferred that decision, just this weekend 78 percent of the parents from those schools that we were

consoconsolidating, enrolled ine new schools and, an indication, in the first week, very clear indication those parent understand that the schools were under performing, underenrolled and underresourced but more important our graduation rate hit all-time high, 57 percent of our african-american adolescents were dropping out, we cannot afford to continue to have the status quo and expect different results. >> rose: yes but they say the people hit the hardest were the poor, and african-americans when you closed the school. >> we started the list with 300 schools and narrowed it down, taking high schools off our top performing schools, even if they were underenrolled and making sure children didn't have to walk more than a mile and we were going to trade or go to a -- this is very tough and asking for change and we have to help families fulfill our sense of the obligation on safety, better

education, better resource and better performing schools, air conditioning in every building, new paint, new facilities, but you can begin to see if we take on the tough things, rather than defer them, i will give you an example, we went through a period of time of a seven-day, eight day strike. >> rose: right. >> we just finished the first year of a full school day and full school year and our kids won't be dead last on school time, our kids will have a full day of kindergarten and adding children to prek for the first time, 5,000 kids, yes, we will make those decisions and i want you to know, charlie, when we looked at it, when you look at this, we thought about what would be the best thing to do to make sure our children were starting in better schools academically, where we can actually have a complete education, both resource wise, air conditioning. >> rose: the question is, is it a better way to achieve those objectives, because as head of a teachers union i think called

you the murder mayor, that is an acrimonious kind of political environment. >> well, you will need to talk to her about that. my view is let's focus on the kids, let's get them in schools that can do what they need to do to achieve because when you see my goal, charlie for every child is when they see the city, regardless of where they live and ga circumstance i want them to see a future that is as exciting as the city's future and unless we only, the only place i know you can bridge that difference is in the classroom and i can no belonger afford to have a city where a lot of children are getting a great education and a number of children from that account education that requires strengthening the home and schools, and this decision was and put in place by bob and i and the board a five-year moratorium so we won't do this anymore, so it is just focused on improving the quality of education and none of the issues that distracted us in the past

will distract us. >> rose: we will talk of other issues too, what is the relationship between you and the teachers union? >> i am a, i am in a firm believer we have great principals and great teachers, a lot of the debate is too much focus on teachers are carrying too much of the burr and we need make sure parents and principals are brought into the situation and bear some of that quality education. >> rose: this is politics. you got no support when you ran from the african-american community. >> uh-huh. >> you have had a dramatic decline in your support in that community. are you failing to communicate? >> no. >> rose: are you doing things they consider not in their interest. >> it is tough things to do, you know, politics is never static and it is dynamic and how i got elected with the coalition will change, as politics evolve. >> rose: you are not saying you don't need them? >> absolutely not i am not saying that i am doing investment throughout the city because i want to make sure everybody has a chance to succeed.

that's not what i was saying. i think when you look at what we are doing, when you talk about the schools we are making the largest investment on the red line south that is here, so people living in the south side can actually get to a place -- people are getting quicker to work on because than they used to on the mean, we are making the largest public investment on the mass transit system on the south side and huge economic change both on home values as well as retail values and commercial that is also true on the investments we are making on the park. i am making very difficult decisions, i am asking a lot but i actively detailed a better education, higher graduation rate, more kids enrolled in prek and kindergarten will pave the way in higher and better education, that's is a brighter future that everybody gets to participate, not just part of the city. >> rose: you are the first mayor not from the south side, correct? >> uh-huh. first mayor that went into wrigley peeled in a

long time. >> the key is, the test here is are you doing the things that are necessary to build a future it seems to me what you, what you are seeing and rich daley your predecessor what do you want to tell me about chicago and in was a concerns, he said the coming of a global city what you are saying to the city of chicago we have to change in order not to be a global city. >> we are first of all because of this hard work a global city and a great cultural and restaurants and architecture and museums and art, the art institute, theaters. >> rose: for a moment -- >> i always think when i want to do charlie rose -- >> so we are a global city but here is a real truth. >> >> rose: you were a damageser. >> yes. and i have used fast footwork a lot. but what we decide in the next

two or three years will determine what think looks like for 20 or 30 years. there is no guarantee given the dynamics of the world economy today that any cities position in the top 50 cities is secure. you have to compete. what is true for chicago and true for paris and true for berlin and shanghai and true for toke agree and i will is a global city with global destination. >> rose: in 2012, the level of violence in chicago 500 murders? >> it was equal to what happened in 2008, correct. >> rose: 500 murders. >> and what will it be in 2013. >> right now as of today, we are down 7 74 actual homicides, down 38 percent. >> at the is a, at the same time in 2012. >> and down 30 percent in shooting and over all crime is down. >> rose: what happened, you as a mayor on your watch, 2012, it was your watch and you were doing so badly. >> well, we had some challenges

with regard to gangs and we continue, but we have implement add new strategy that turned that around, charlie, so. >> rose: what strategy? >> we have taken 20 areas of the city, four percent of the geography that represent 20 to 25 percent of all shootings, homicides, bleargs and robberies and saturated them so the impact to those zones in about a third of the city, think of it this way, 20 areas, 20 blocks, okay? it is about 400 blocks, we have saturated them with conk during key hours seven days a week which led to a 38 percent drop in homicides, 30 percent drop in shootings, and an actual 22 percent, two years running, drop in overall crime. and that is, with the new strategy let me say one thing, that is a part of policing. >> rose: this is the police chief you brought from new york. >> cambridge, number three from

new york. overall crime strategy is what i call the 4 ps, policing is part of it, parenting, prevention, and penalties. if you give 25, 50,000 fathers active in their sons lives you won't have to count how many police you have and a lot of our young men. >> rose: say it again. >> a lot of young men are missing a male figure in their lives and miss that grounding. >> we will come back to each of these in a second. >> rose: a third is. >> prevention. and i will come back to that, after-school programs and then fast forward to increased funding in each of those. and lastly, gun control and gun penalties. >> you had gun control and yet you a had the highest -- rate and people said there you go. gun control doesn't make a difference. how do you answer the arguments

of the gun control. >> police strategy matters and i think we put together the right strategy to saturate the worst geographic areas and stopping those individuals who is a the have the propensity to commit the most crimes. second, i can't legislate a parental involvement, we increased the curfew and penalties around curfew as associated with the people who aren't taking the responsibility forgetting the kids indoors. admission to that there is a program called bam, becoming a man, mentoring program for at risk adolescents and increased our funding to it dramatically, about 7,000 young men in our schools we need to give them the right kind of mentoring and guidance and nurturing so they make the right choices. thomas and i have done this windy city hoops, we had 1,000 plus kids at basketball friday nights with coaches, referees, real mentoring, the true uh

truth is, 25 of them across the city there is that much need and the kids that are so wonderful just looking for a positive role model plus gym, we raised $41 million over at risk and prevention programs and increased our school, after school funding by 30 percent so 13,000 high school kids will all have after-school programs in a safe environment and lastly, and we just passed a law in springfield we need the make sure there are tougher penalties associated gun crimes, now we have guns in from indiana and southern illinois and even further south than that which is why it is so important that washington pass comprehensive gun laws so we can create a floor here, but all four of those keys, policing, parenting, preinvention and penalties have to work together, the police are doing a very good job, we are starting to turn the corner, as i said, 38 percent drop in homicides, 74 actually fewer

homicides, 259 actually fewer shoot i think so, 30 percent drop there and a 22 percent drop in overall crime two years running. >> rose: i will run down memory lane for a moment. >> is there any other job in government you would like to have? >> in government? >> in government. >> yes. >> rose: what? >> you want to be speaker of the house. >> well, that is over. okay. no, one day, firstly say think way, i hope mayor daley seeks reelection and support him if he seeks reelection but if he doesn't i would like to run for mayor for the city of chicago but it all depends on an aspiration even when i was -- >> rose: mayor of chicago? >> yes. one thing you ask what i miss, i miss the contact with constituents, you know, i miss being when you are running for office in touch with people.

>> rose: be careful what you wish for is my point. >> why is that? >> i mean you wished to be think of chicago and you became mayor of chicago. >> let me just say this, in the interviewly say this is the single greatest job i have had in public life, i have had great jobs and i just saw president clinton and saw president obama, i loved working for both of them, local government is the closest to how people live their arrives and if you are interested in whether education, parks, libraries, universities, this is where it affects their lives and it is what i believe in. >> rose: you take this job and you take it understanding that it has been in most cases whether it is new york or chicago, a stepping stone to nowhere. >> right. >> rose: you are okay with that? >> i am beyond okay. charlie, i have served eight years in the white house for two presidents. i am done with that in

washington. >> rose: sherman like i am done with washington? >> i am finished, over, don't want to go back. >> rose:. >> i loved being in a city where you can get things done, and put points on the board. >> rose: fair enough. let's assume it is broken, can't put points on the board, all of that. >> and you are doing exactly what you want to do, fair enough and i am hearing you it is a laboratory for government is exactly what it is. >> yes. >> rose: can washington be fixed? do you see the advantage of what you have learned in chicago and say what is happening in chicago can be applied in washington? >> well,. >> rose: and fix the country. >> i mean there are a couple of things i am processing on substance also. look, i started off with a business plan and we did a plan for our ten years of economic growth in the city and we are going to go succinctly through it, investing in our infrastructure, our parks, our schools, our water system, our roads and the largest

infrastructure investment in the country right now and second making sure we the best trained and best educated work force and bringing a level of transparency and, to local government, you put all of those government and you have the confidence to move to the city or expand the operation and that has happened, we reversed the flow of people out after a decade and moving back to the city and we actually had to add 16 companies have actually moved their world headquarters or operations and headquarters to the city of chicago. >> rose: and here is. >> here is what i think about washington needs to focus on those and i will talk a little bit about it but let me say on process. separate from substance. okay? our electorial system is designed where the voters pick their representatives today our representatives pick their voters and it is an actual inversion of the system and what it has done is chased moderates out of both parties. that is a mistake.

and. >> rose: redistrict something. >> sure. i want i don't want to get on a bunch of -- yeah. i don't want a bunch of people to get over worked up over process. that is a process and analysis point that i think contributes, it is not the reason, contributes to the gridlock. secondly, more importantly -- >> rose: it is not running in district in which you have to be competitive and therefore. >> the primary is the general election rather than the other way around. it is the be all and end all. >> rose: that is one point. >> you do have a republican party that is dead set against the legitimacy of this president, and it is not looking -- >> rose: why do you think that is? >> there is a period of time that i was with clinton it was similar, and i think they are determined, because there is plenty of areas they can find common ground with the president and i will give you one that is not being discussed at the level i think it should be discussed or give you two. one is next month the united

states for the first time since jimmy carter will export more energy than import, ,000 december first month of a 50 year historic event that will change global politics, america's economic future, there is a lot you can do if you want to work with this president in creating a national energy policy that will be the first day of american independence. >> rose: there are some who don't want to do that particular area. >> no because they want to -- there is just never enough agreement. and number two, and wait out the president, number 2 is infrastructure. he everybody's economy regardless of where you are in the country requires a tremendous amount of investment in your roads, your bridges, your schools, your airports,. >> rose: there is gridlock. >> and there is gridlock over being far beyond discretionary spending in the federal budget. there is gridlock over long-term debt and gridlock over entitlement programs and over tax rerm. >> but those are the problems that -- >> those are the problems we are

focusing on what i am suggesting you asked me how to break the gridlock i am answering that question. >> rose: in other words -- >> spend a little money on infrastructure, then you can break the gridlock in washington and -- >> let me just, don't put words in my mouth like that. in eight years in the white house, i can definitely handle that one, you said how do you break the gridlock and i am suggesting to you given where social security and medicare are and taxes i would move to places where i think there is actually more common ground and given energy prices and infrastructure and find actually forums whether you are in kentucky or whether you are in virginia or whether you are he in illinois or new york everybody knows the desperate needs of both our roads, our bridges and mass transit systems and everybody knows that america isn't too become an energy net producer, what a transformative thing that can be for the country there is too much ideological differences on social security and medicare

to find the common frowned and if you wanted to -- >> rose: there is no grand bargain to be had. >> you look at the reforms the president on medicare the republicans actually say you know what? your reforms in in healthcare work better but we think we can do more but we take what you have said works and that's the first indication that the battles are behind us and let's look forward, i am not sure they want to do that. >> do you have any evidence they want to do that? >> no, that's my point so we turn to subjects tha that will e them another opportunity to build a stronger future. >> rose: how much time do you think this president has? >> what d what do you mean? >> rose: you know what i mean, people think about 2014 soon. >> this is political signs -- >> rose: fair enough. you are saying the idea that pretty soon, 2014 and 2016, and therefore the president loses -- >> >> rose: do you buy that at all. >> i he it is the most amateur

political science you can see. >> rose: this is my view. >> look at president clinton and then look at george bush 43, all three, second terms, they have three windows of time, what you get done in yours first kind of 15 months, the middle 15 months and then the back 15 months, every one of those presidents accomplished something in their back 15 months and it is not possible, it is not accurate if you look at history, ronald reagan got welfare reform, in the back half of his second term, president clinton dealt with china wto entry which was significant, and closing the kosovo war and george bush, you argue the merits, but the surge, so the notion of by 2014 your second term is kaput is an amateur version of history and you have three recent presidents who also they did tried or did

succeed in the first 15 months, the middle part is caught, in what is kind of a slump and went back in and you have to focus on one or two things and you can actually get over the goal line and accomplished. >> rose: and that is true of the last three, two-term presidents we had. >> rose: and they spent time involved in other controversies, that were not of policy-making. >> there is a middle period that gets caught up. >> rose: the president is looking at irs and how does his presidency compare with president clinton's presidency? >> you are not doing that to me. both in their own times have been great. >> rose: you can answer that. >> let me say this. >> rose: what? >> i am unbelievable forth matt to work for both of them. >> rose: what have you learned? this, you have taken two things from president clinton you took the ability and the sense to be able to daze well numbers and that kind of data that you like to use, and with president obama, you took a sense of being able to be cool.

that's what somebody said here. >> well, without. >> rose: what did you take? >> well, i he that, first of all, i think they are both incredible presidents. >> rose: right. >> who both i think, both taught me actually one very important lesson, and i get credit for this one quote. >> rose: take advantage of every crisis? >> i already said this, every a challenge is an opportunity waiting to be discovered. and you have to do that, they are there to be had. every challenge is an opportunity where you can discover, i do believe, never let a good crisis to go to waste because you can do things that in past you didn't think you could do that and president clinton and president obama, in different presidencies have faced a myriad of crises and pushed them into an opportunity

to add van answer, advance the country and that to me, when i look at the challenges i have to deal with as both mayor and continue to do is where is the opportunity here to eventually move forward? >> rose: so what crisis sister have you taken advantage of? a crisis of crime? >> education? >> education. our fiscal, in two years i have put us on -- while we are not done, i have brought a level of reform to the city budget and also changes to our city budget, we have balanced the budget, each year put money back in the rainy day perform department and the budget i just passed in october is actually $100 million smaller than rich daley's last budget and services have increased, and our reform of government, and that to me the crisis was an opportunity to make the changes we needed to make and we needed to do for years and that's what i am doing in education.

>> rose:. >> the full school year we never did it and we now have it and i think that is a huge investment, it is the single largest increase in time for children academically anywhere by any city never the city. >> rose: you talked about that earlier in the conversation. >> i don't want credit i want our kids to get a good education. >> rose: you get credit for giving the kids a good education. >> you get credit forgiving the kids a good education. so tell me what makes a good mayor. because you look at mike bloomberg here. >> a great mayor. >> rose: full disclosure we are operating a studio out of the bloomberg building. does that mean. >> does that mean your ranking the different? >> rose: obviously not. businessman. manager. >> uh-huh. >> rose: so tell me, you have managed nothing but the white house --

>> i managed stuff for not just the white house, i have done things for presidents -- >> i ran nafta, i ran the inaugural, i ran the democrats to take back the house. >> rose: let's go from there. >> there are a few things to go there. >> my point is, management skills -- >> management skills are crucial to being an effective executive. >> let me slightly alter that if i could. >> first of all, mayor bloomberg i think would be better at this than me given me he succeeded in both the private and public sector are different. you oversee a good company which is not a good analogy for public service. >> rose: why not? >> because you are not driven by shareholders and profits and different kind of things so you are not measured and seeking the same goals. >> rose: and you have a

different constituency. >> absolutely, if it is a public or private company, shareholderers, i don't see the voters as shareholders, they are voters and what citizenship is about, i think if you are in leadership, in that arena there are other things i am not limiting this but the three traits i think are essential whether president, governor, mayor, president of a university. >> rose: right. >> -- strength, confidence, and optimistic. >> rose: strength means what? >> the strength of your convictions. i mean you exude that quality of being able to see things through. strength, there is a confidence that comes with knowing what you want to do, always willing to learn, i suppose the other thing i learn from presidents is constant reading and information. and have the confidence -- >> rose:. >> people look to a leader and if you are in leadership do you

have confident in what you are doing? >> you have to offer, so strength, confidence and optimism, we are ultimately an optimistic people, and if you look at every presidential election, if you look through history, in leaps forward, and you go through other positions of elected leaders, we usually gravitate towards the candidate that has been for one, exhibits strengths, optimism and. >> i think people want to take politics out of politics is nuts. you have to know those things and be masters of those things. >> rose: what does politics mean in that case? >> you have to know how to work the political system that is not a negative. is there any way you would not want, the same thing you wouldn't want to know about politics. you want to, what do we admire about roosevelt and kennedy? they are very good politicians. clinton, george bush, 43, very

good politicians and i think that is a good thing, because you want somebody in politics to know how to handle politics, and i think those are -- but the qualities than any leader has to communicate, it is not a policy itself, are those qualities of strength, confidence and optimism. anand i think if you look at history, roosevelt ran for president. >> rose: what did he -- nothing but fear but fear -- >> we can tackle this, it was a strength built into his own personal physical empowerment he had a physical strength, we look to those qualities and gravitate to them because they speak to something larger and especially from somebody in the exec five leadership. >> rose: your most important goal for the next 12 months in chicago is? >> to continue to improve on our graduation rate and college attend canals for, attendance for our kids, it is the single most important thing .. to secure the future of our city is

how the k through 12 system, our education, our earlier years and where we -- i will come back to this, is the continuing improvement of the educational opportunity for the children of the city of chicago. >> rose: right. >> and i. >> rose: and to help jobs too. >> i give my kids unconditional love and education and the rest is up to you, i love them unconditionally and it is free in america, it is the most american of america's cities, and i think that ifly as long as i have the good fortune and confidence of the city of the people of chicago every day, 247 i will be working on education. >> rose: and the confidence of our mother -- >> they are,. >> rose: a loving mother. the chicago bull, tell us about chicago. chicago bull. mayor rahm emanuel studied both

crime and so why are people mad at him in is that a price you pay for change? >> you know, i have this joke after a year, people hate the status quo, they are not too excited about change either, and they got you either way, so you have to make change. and here is another lesson i will say, more contributed to president clinton, you have to make friend your change not your foe because the world is not static and all we are doing on public safety, public education and public finances is trying to make that change, it is difficult, because you are asking a lot of people, but you can't have a strategy where denial is going to work and we tried that for a while, we have to make the tough decisions today, tell people the hard truths but if we do it, you are going to get better graduation rates, give your kids a full school day, you are going to bring safety to all parts of the city and every child when they walk to school walks, looks downtown and sees the energy and

optimism, that is where my future is and if we do what we need to do at the school and at homes our city will continue to have a great, great future that everybody can participate in. >> rose: thank you for coming. great to have you here. please tell her hello. >> she hasn't. >> rose: she wants face time. >> she thinks you are the best ever. >> rose: we do love her. thank you for coming. >> rahm emanuel, from chicago. thank you for joining us. see you next time.

>> funding for charlie rose was provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. multimedia news and information services worldwide. you are watching

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