>> rose: welcome to the program, we begin this evening with the former chairman of the federal communications commission, julius genachowski. >> well, i think that the fcc and the government needs to think very carefully about where government action is required to promote innovation and investment and protect consumers, and where no action is the best course. so i was of the view and we took action in this area that having basic enforceable rules to preserve an open internet and internet freedom was something we needed to do. there are other areas where we should be very cautious about stepping in and that is the hard work. i tend to disagree with people on both extremes, one side says government should do search agree and the other side says government should do it all, i think both of those sides are wrong and we need to take kind of thoughtful approaches to stoving real problems and using

government action appropriately, and one other point, to recognize that some of the key assets here are government assets, the spectrum government assets, government has to act, the roads and rights of way that broadband lines go through are government assets, we need to handle those smartly so that we can get more fiber rolled out at lower costs around the country. >> #02:. >> rose: we conclude with phil libin, the ceo of the note taking app, ever note. >> this is super exciting right now is there is a giant revolution coming in how we think about products, so queue have this major shift in the past five years from very pc centric design, and people think that was disruptive and it really wasn't because all that was was the smart smart phone was a pc replacement so people made smaller versions of their stuff for the phone but the next gap is totally different because you won't be designing software

for glasses. you won't be designing software for glasses and for your watching and pedestrian domer the and your tv and your car and your shower, because it doesn't make sense, these things aren't replacements of each other .. you will have to design products not for the device or phone but for charlie so the product has to be meant for you and it has to take advantage of all of the devices you come into contact with that you have been using at the same time, julius genachowski and phil libin when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: julius genachowski is here, he repeatly stepped down as chairman of the federal communications commission. the fcc regulates all communication from radio to television to broadband, and in his four-year tenure he brought a commission founded by fdr to the internet age, fcc has expanded internet access to millions of americans, it has over seen an explosion in mobile

computing and passed legislation ensuring the openness of the internet, i am pleased to have him here at the table, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: let me start with a quote from you. we have taken a system design from alexander graham bell and updating it for the internet future he imagined, how well are we doing at that? >> i think we have made real progress. you know, we were having this conversation, we were talking for example you would ask me about all of the mobile innovation that was happening in south korea and japan and where to the mobile innovation in the u.s. and europe is ahead of us on 3 g, on mobile. so four years later, u.s. is leading the world in mobile innovation,. >> rose: what do you mean by mobile innovation? >> well, these devices right here, you have one, i have one, mobile broadband is changing the world and the u.s. is leading.

so the applications around the world people are using, twitter, facebook, google are american apps, four years ago, 20 percent of mobile glasses devices had american operating systems today it is 80 percent and the u.s. is leading the world in 4 g which is the next generation of mobile broadband, it is a big change on the wired side, speeds are up. the percentage of americans who have broadband access is up, but we still have a lot to do. >> rose: which doesn't even compare to south korea in determinations of the people who have broadband access? >> it is getting closer and closer, particularly if you adjust for the rural nature of the united states, we have a harder problem. but we are investing in the u.s., our capital investment in broadband, particularly in wireless is growing faster than any other country in the world, including south korea, i can't including china, now there is really, this is not mission accomplish jerks a lot to do, we to keep pushing broadband speeds and mobile.

we are in a global bandwidth race every country in the world wants to be the home for innovation, so we have got to keep the pedal on the floor and -- >> rose: and who else is doing well? you know, listen, countries all over the world are taking this very seriously, you look at small countries, the nordic countries in europe are doing well, china obviously is committed to this. right now, i don't think anyone is progressing faster than the u.s. >> and where are we not doing well? >> we need to continue to identify the gaps in improvements, so one of the areas where we can make real progress in the next few years ago years is connecting our schools, digital technology can be a big part of education reform, you know, one to one learning on i pads and tablets can help students, help teachers, the possible is, the connectivity into schools is too slow for all the devices and everything they can do.

so the president announced a major initiative to upgrade connectivity to schools, high speed broadband to 99 percent of students in the next five years, that's the kind of leadership we need to get there. >> rose: so the forecast of revolution on education can happen? >> i really believe it, and listen, you know, the innovations that these creative innovators in the education world are capable of is amazing, the student can have a device that is optimized to what you need to learn that can help you on your issues and challenges and problems for teachers. these devices as part of a connected echo system can give teachers information they don't now have, instantly telling the teachers how all the students are doing in math. which students are having what problems, can suggest, here is what you should do for these students, the opportunities are just enormous and when you think

about how challenging our education problems are in the u.s., how can we not sees technology to help solve this. now this is an area south korea is doing, we to do it. >> rose: online education is becoming a big deal. >> absolutely, yes. >> rose: at the university level. >> at the university level i think it is going to change university education in a significant way, you know, great teachers reach not just hundreds of student in their schools but thousands of students across the country and in fact across the world. >> rose: how would you define impact of sol con. >> it is just amazing, a visionary who said we are just going to reimagine how we can help people .. learn, and we are not going to be constrained by the way things have been done, and it is just amazing for, you know, people of all ages, what a wonderful platform that just shows hey this is what new technologist can do. >> rose: here is what just came down on june 6th from you

and jonathan zit tran who has been on this program as well, former fcc chairman, let's test an emergency ad hoc network in boston. the idea of using wifi at a time of emergency like the tragedy at the boston marathon, explain what you would do. >> well, first of all what is the problem? what we saw in boston is a horrible tragedy is that everyone at the same time made calls on their mobile devices, totally understandable, this happened, the earthquake last year on the east coast, other events, very difficult for mobile networks to handle that kind of surge in volume. now we have got to figure out how to solve that, it is a hard challenge because everyone using the same network at once, the idea that jonathan and i wrote about is all of our devices can communicate with each other at short-range using wifi and other methods of connectivity. what if everyone agreed that their phones could be part of an

ad hoc network that as a backup system, if the networks can't handle the traffic can be activated? why shouldn't we experiment with that? and let's make boston the first city in the country to test this to go operational and -- >> rose: an internet hot spot will become part of the system. >> every phone which is capable of being an internet hot spot would become part of the network so if the mobile network went down and both on it and other people around here were on it, we cannot only communicate with each other, but together would form an ad hoc network where i can communicate with my kids some place else if we are all connected to each other. >> rose: let's talk about the impact over the internet. you have suggested and others have suggested that the promise that it might lead to an explosion of jobs has not happened, the same way in education. and sometimes efficiencies

eliminated jobs. is that a problem we can address? >> in our economy we want to drive productivity and efficiency on the bet that that will lead to new businesses, new investment, new growth and new jobs. so there is no question that the internet in certain sectors have led to a reduction in the number of jobs, you can't look at blockbuster and newspapers and say -- >> rose: true. >> at the same time the internet is creating entirely new platforms for new businesses and new jobs so think about the iphone and the app store and, you know, what i call the apps economy, it didn't exist five years ago is now a platform for lots of new businesses, lots of new jobs, mackenzie has studied this and said, yeah, the internet does lead to job reductions, it also leads to job creation and they said the internet is creating, they put a number on it, 2.6 jobs for every job it is eliminating so we have to make this bet and make it for another reason.

capital and talent in today's global economy can flow anywhere. so the internet is going to have its disruptive effect no matter what we do. now we are competing for the capital and talent to come to the u.s. and we need to focus on getting the largest possible share of these new jobs. so i am an optimist about the equitnet effect of the internett also a realist on wet have to do this because other countries are and if we don't, the jobs will go some place else. >> rose: people in america on both sides of the political spectrum talk about the absence of an energy plan or strategy. they also suggest that we need a better broadband strategy. what would be a broadband strategy that would benefit the country? >> well, we have to keep doing the work of analyzing the opportunities, our current situation, the gaps and addressing the gaps. this is the first thing i did when i

became fcc chairman, we put together the america's first national broadband plan. >> rose: right. >> and it identified the needs and the set of initiatives to increase speeds, increase access, free up spectrum, the airwaves for mobile broadband and for the last four years the fcc and other parts of government have been executing on that plan, we are getting to the point where it is time to modernize and update it for the next couple of years. >> rose: do we have a spectrum crisis now? >> we have a looming spectrum crisis because the demand for spectrum is increasing much faster than the supply. here is something that, you know, kind of brought it home to me. this is an iphone, right? this device obviously uses the airwaves to work otherwise you can't connect to the internet. it puts a demand on spectrum as compared to the device that we had before this that is not ten percent more, 20 percent

more, 100 percent more, it is 25 times more and ipads put a demand on spectrum 150 times more. no one anticipated this, so we haven't had a spectrum policy that said let's free up a lot of spectrum. we have those strategies in place now, big ideas to real indicate spectrum, for example, from over the air broadcasting to mobile broadband to free up spespectrum for government uses this is a big challenge for years to come. >> on the other hand there is people calling for a need of some kind of regulatory expansion because of all of the new systems that are come ing into play. do you, having been a fcc chairman believe that is true. >> well, i think that the fcc and the government needs to think very carefully about where government action is required to promote innovation and investment and protect consumers, and where no action is the best course. so i was of the view and we took action in this area that having

basic enforceable rules to preserve an open internet and internet freedom was something we needed to do. there are other areas where we should be very cautious about stepping in and that is the hard work. i tend to disagree with people on both extremes, one side says government should do zero and the other side says government should do it all. i think both of those sides are wrong, and we need to take kind of thoughtful approaches to solving real problems and using government action appropriately, and one other point to recognize that some of the key assets here are government assets, the spectrum is a government asset, the government has to act. the roads and rights of ways that broadband lines go through are government assets, we need to handle those smartly so that we can get more fiber rolled out at lower costs faster around the country. >> rose: what about the antitrust elements not that there are antitrust questions

that are not always being raised google being one there is a lot of talk about whether google needed to be examined more closely, but you have got four big companies in terms of carriers, you have at&t, verizon, t-mobile and sprint, they are abl 80 percent of the . cellphone market, does that bother you? >> well, we were very close in the u.s. to getting to a point where we would have had two companies with that kind of market share, remember, at&t and t-mobile tried to merge and we thought t-mobile weakening sprint, having real challenges, the fcc and the justice department blocked the at&t, t-mobile transaction two years ago and what we are seeing now as a result of that policy is to free up spectrum for the smaller companies, rules to ensure that customers can roam between networks for broadband data. we are seeing a much healthier

mobile market from a competitive perspective and seeing four companies really competing. that is a very good thing, and so the trend lines are moving in the right direction and really close to having a two player market in mobile which would have been bad news for america's innovation economy. >> rose: what is, how do we compare in terms of regulation with europe? you know, i just got back from europe and the senior member of the european commission responsible for digital strategy gave a speech a couple of weeks ago in which she said publicly europe has fallen behind the u.s. and we need to take some action. >> rose: and why. >> well they have fallen behind in innovation, in mobile networks, in cap x and wire and wireless broadband and said, listen, all the countries in europe need to take this seriously. so, you know, confirmation that the u.s. is moving in a good direction relatively but also reminds us that they are waking up every day in europe and asia

and south america saying, we want to overtake the u.s. >> rose: in net neutrality, where is it? >> well, a big fight -- >> rose: some don't know what that term means. >> it is about whether or not internet users, entrepreneurs, speakers should have a right to send and receive information over the internet. i he the answer is yes. it was a big radioactive fight when i took office four years ago and it took a year but we adopted a framework that is in place, protects entrepreneurs and speaker and the ability to send and receive information and it is also doing something that is the opposite of some of what some of the critics predicted, some folks predicted if the fcc adopted net neutrality rules we would see a decline in investment in broadband networks. well the opposite has happened. we are seeing, we have seen a

real up tick in cap x and wire and wireless broadband, the certainty and predictability of these rules, and the fact that the rules recognize that we do need private investment in our wired and wireless networks, those companies need a reliable, you know, need a system where they can get a return on investment, so we adopted those rules four years ago and they are working. there is a key challenging them making their way through the courts, but i think the facts on the ground tell us that you can have clarity around the system that preserves the right to 7 and receive -- >> rose: you also said keeping the internet open is perhaps the most important free speech issue of our time. >> yes. i believe that i worked with lee bollinger the president of columbia, first amendment scholar on this. we are seeing around the world dangerous trend, particularly after the arab spring where governments are noticing that an open internet can be dangerous

to their job retention and so around the world, since the arab spring we are seeing nondemocratic governments ask themselves a question, how can we sensor the internet and also seeing some internet service providers around the world say, hmm, let's change the business models of the internet and shift the costs to the internet content creators, that would have also a very negative effect on the growth of the internet globally, so this is something i think if you are a large business, a small business, interested in human rise or free speech rights we have to take seriously because the global trends are very concerning. >> rose: can a country shut down access to the internet? >> it depending on the country. >> rose: or does it always leak? >> it depends on the country, so smaller countries that have fewer access points into the country carrying internet traffic, you literally can shut them down. >> rose: china? >> china is a little bit harder,

syria is an example where technically it is easier to shut down the internet, than in a country like china. but there is no question that governments like china are taking steps to control the internet in those countries. >> rose: how has the internet been used in syria. in -- >> you know, you see journalists, individual citizens getting the word out about what is happening, getting mention out, getting photos out. it is harder in today's world to have secret genocide, that's a good thing and the internet can play a really important role in shining a light on terrible situations around the world. >> rose: why did you leave? you know, four years, four terrific years, i accomplish what i set out to do, and it was time to hand the reins over to

someone else. >> rose: how would you define that? >> the fcc when i got there had been unfocused. it was spending a lot of time on older communication technologies. i wanted to and i believe i have, i focused it on broadband, the opportunities of high speed internet, wired and wireless and i set out in the national broadband plan a series of steps i wanted to take to increase speeds, to free up spectrum, to transition old programs from telephone to broadband, and i am really proud of what the agency was able to do on a bipartisan basis by the way, let's put it this way, many of our decisions were bipartisan and grateful to my colleagues for that, many were not but we were able to have disagreements with the fcc without being dysfunctional and again i am really greatful to my colleagues for that because it takes people with different points of view to agree on the importance of government working to get that done. >> rose: tom wheeler. the new nominee is tom wheeler,

the acting chair, tom will be great, smart, experienced, really cares about doing the right thing for the country. >> rose: but a former lobbyist. >> a former have investor. >> rose: entrepreneur and lobbyist, yes, so that's good because he knows the industry? >> he is someone who knows the space and is committed to doing the right things for innovators and consumers for the country. he is going to be great. >> rose: and what are you going to do? >> i am going to take my family and go horseback riding in wyoming and play a little poke never the world series of poker and find a way to stay engaged in this incredible sector. >> rose: thank you for coming, good to see you. we will be right back, stay with us. >> rose: phil libin is here, he is the ceo of ever note, a note taking app that can be synced across all of your devices, written, spoken or visual, liken it to an external

brain, the app already had 50 million users worldwide, i am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you. super awesome to be here. >> for me likewise as i said when you and i sat down, you know, you made it for me. and then you said that the audience we were talking were bcs and reporters, people who need information and need to connect information. >> yes, well we made ever note, the initial audience is ourselves we wanted to make it for ourselves and who else is important to us, reporters important us to an investors are important to us so ride to make it great for them. >> and connected from one to the other. >> exactly. >> rose: what is it? >> well, it is an external brain, so it is a set of products that try to make you smarter, basically try to ease the cognitive load of dealing with information over lead that is coming at you every day from kind of every direction. we think of it as a cognitive prosthesis, something you can actually use to increase how

smart you already are. >> rose: it was before it became an app? >> it was, yeah, yeah. exactly, yes. and, you know, we actually never called it ever note because we thought of note taking. we thought ♪ like it is notable and noteworthy, it is about remembering the important things in your life, but everyone very quickly went to note taking because they thought it was a big need so we are proud to be the ridiculously world's most successful note taking company but we hope to be much more than that. >> rose: how do you use it yourself? a. >> and i live in it. you know, the core ever note user is someone who doesn't have a big distinction between personal life and work life, someone who kind of -- >> rose: i know. >> doesn't have -- >> rose: me. >> well, all of us. a poor understanding of life-work balance. >> rose: or one flows into the other so that it is an important there is no distinction. >> right. work-life integration, meaning work becomes life and life is work and where play is and work

begins, you don't really know. >> and if you are working on something meaningful enough, like we are with ever note in is our life's work it really blends together so i do everything in it, so all of my business stuff i prepare for board meetings, when preparing for a good meeting i am clipping articles from the web and writing my own notes and get all of my management staff to contribute materials and share it with the board and give me comments and so on and basically remember everything i ate, where i parked my car. >> rose: what if somebody says something important to you you can put it down. >> and automatically relates everything to itself so i don't have to organize things and categorize things. it does that for me automatically zoo whoever i am looking at ever note it is making connections with things i already know, and if you use it in a big i business it is making connections with your coworkers so truly about giving you that knowledge discovery of what do other people around you know. >> rose: and syncs across all devices as i said in the introduction.

>> yes, it should be your external brain so at some point it will be in your head an don't have to deal with it, but we want every device, so it is just syncs across everything, and computers, phones, tablets and also working with glasses and pedometers and refrigerator and every type of device. >> rose: speaking of glasses do you think that will be an extraordinary phenomenon. >> yes, i think it will be huge, i am a little embarrassed it is 2013 and talking to you and wearing glasses that are not projecting anything into my eyeballs that seems frankly barbaric. >> rose: why is it taking so long? >> i don' i don't know, but it s almost over, i think within a couple of years i think the common thing will be to have these devices. i don't know which particular product will succeed, but the idea that you can have this, you know, hyperawareness that literally you can know what is going on around you whenever you want is powerful, once people get used to it you will feel stupid when you take them off. >> rose: will there be many variations, the only people i

know who are doing it is google and they came here to just sort of show us the first -- >> yes, they are leading the way but there are other companies working on it, and now that google is, there is also going to be lots more and there is obviously going to be many different products an not just glasses but glasses, glasses are an important one. >> rose: some people call youment a serial entrepreneur meaning you start companies, meaning that you started companies, sell them and make a lot of money and do it again. >> yeah. i never thought of myself as that, we sold the first one for 25, and we sold the second one for roughly the same amount, the first one didn't have any investors so that was nice. >> rose: that's the best kind. >> exactly, we literally didn't know when we started the first company we didn't know there was a thing called investors, we were all engineers and just started programming and didn't know what you are supposed to do is get other people's money and used that, we just assumed in business you have to be profit frbl the beginning so we --

>> rose: the evolution from one to the other? >> yes, a lot of lessons learn, the main one is the third time around we said, we don't want to sell it, we don't want to make products for somebody else an don't want to sell the company and only want to make products for us and we want to make a company we want to keep. >> rose: and a company has organic growth. >> organic growth and our life's work. >> rose: why your life's work? >> because it is sufficiently epic, you know, you kind of look for something that is sufficiently epic to say this is what i with a tonight work on for the rest of my life, the universe is better off because this company is in it it is not about making money but about actually doing something meaningful, so ever note will make the whole world smarter one person at a time. >> rose: is that a big statement to make the whole world statement. >> we don't have a formal mission statement but that is a good one, maybe i will have to put that on a poster somewhere. >> rose: is it mainly consumers or do businesses use

it? >> two-thirds of our users use ever note at work for both work stuff and personal stuff. so we recently reintroduced a version specifically for companies, for businesses but even our consumer product is mostly used by professionals, so this idea where, you know, the core ever note user -- >> rose: isn't the consumer product and the business product, i used to think that for business was better, now i think the reverse. >> exactly. that is exactly right. like business class, when you are talking about airlines, it is a little nicer, we are talking like technology, it is a worse experience, and we are trying to reverse that, so no for us the business version should be a better experience than the consumer version just like business class should be a better experience, you are paying for it, it would be mice. i don't know how in the past 20 years it got the tools we use as work are worse than the tools we use in our personal lives. >> rose: showing a profit yet? >> well for a very brief time we did. 2011 but then decided that was a

time to raise a lot more money, really invest in growing so we tripled the head count and investing as much as possible so we are not profitable at this point. >> rose: i mean you have your product, the focus is to make it better. >> yes. >> is it better software, is it better what? >> better experience. >> rose: better experience. >> and sometimes it takes software and sometimes it takes into design and sometimes into hardware and partnerships, it is to make the best possible experience and that's the endless quest. >> rose: it is, it really, is if you look at everything somebody made a breakthrough in technology it made the experience easier. >> yes. >> from icons back -- >> there are very few completely original ideas like this is the big misconception people have about entrepreneurship they think you walk around until you have like this blinding insight about something that doesn't exist and that's what you make and make a lot of money it never works this way, what you do is you make a version of something important that is just a better experience of what came before

it and when you make that experience good enough you have a breakout success. >> rose: you have an interesting philosophy which is, you are not out there pushing your product, you want the product itself to have such a positive user experience. >> right. >> rose: that it will evolve itself. >> you don't push people to get an up grade. >> yeah, we don't so you can use ever met for free and our business model is totally direct, which is we are not a big data company, we don't show you ads and monetize your dad, data, we don't drive you to affiliates or partners and only make money from users when we give them a good enough experience they want to pay, they want to pay for the professional version and yes, i think, you know, most companies if, every company has someone whose job is get people who haven't heard of the product to use it for the first time and i think most companies say that's the job of the marketing department, we explicitly say that's not the job of the marketing department but the job of the current users, when you

hear about ever note we want it not to be from us but your buddy, the job of the marketing department is to engage with our current users to build that community the make them likely to be those kind of brand ambassadors so it is a calculated approach to let us grow very quickly but it is one that is very no pressure approach. >> rose: japan is a big market? >> japan is huge, we have got really big in japan really early on. >> rose: why is that? what was it about that, those consumers that made them mostly want your product in. >> there is definit definitely g culturally compatible with japan, they value, it is a country of nerds, basically, everyone in japan is overly passionate about something, more than you think they ought to be and ever note really fits in like that, like if you really care about something you can collect it and research it an get information and be a little bit obsessive about something, it fits well. >> does that apply to the united states and people in the united states, a lot of people in

china, mainly people who want ever note. >> yes -- >> rose: some in other words nerd quality. >> yeah, nerd quality. >> in some sense we are all nerds now and got really big in japan first but now it is growing faster than anything in china, growing quickly in korea and brazil and europe, japan was our first bubble outside of the u.s., but right now, less than a third of our users and a third of our revenues is in the u.s., everything else is worldwide. >> rose: what is the most exciting hinge it can do, what excites you the most? >> the main thing is it makes connections for you that, before you knew you were looking for them. so if i am sitting in a meeting and i am taking notes and just meeting with a start whereupon company and pitching me their idea and i was in the meeting i said notes from meeting with so and so, and ever note found while i was typing it, it showed me these people had already met with one of my colleagues two weeks ago, and i didn't know to

ask it, like i hadn't thought did you meet with anyone else? should i check? it just told me because it thought -- >> rose: you wrote -- >> i started taking the notes and there is related notes and brian already met with these guys. >> rose: ah. >> because it showed me his note when he met with them and that was huge, now i could be much smarter and ask him about it and ask brian, it was this almost magical discovery of a connection which was highly relevant but i didn't have to think to look for it. >> rose: that note brian worked for you? >> yeah. >> rose: okay. so, therefore, there there is a common sharing of all ever notes amok all people -- >> yes, the employees in the company, so even though he didn't take the note to share for thing but he took it in the business account and he specifically said, yeah, anything i put into here -- >> rose: he put it somewhere so it would be sharable. >> yes he put it in ever note, the way it is set up at work, any business notes he make benefit the whole country and

any personal notes you make is just for you and only you can see him, so i can't see my employee's personal notes, but anything for business, it is kind of there for everyone in the business so it is serendipitous connection of information that is the most promising thing in the future. >> rose: so if you wrote i just met samantha and popped up that brian just met samantha at dinner that would not happen? >> if i did it in my personal notebook, no, it would not. that is a different business model. >> rose: so where is it going? you had evaluation billion dollars the last time you raised money, capital, right? is an ipo in your future? >> i think so. the bowl always has been to make a 100 year startup, we are kind of serious about this from the beginning, so an ipo is not a goal, i think it is an important step along the way and a step you can really do a lot of damage if you do that stuff wrong so we have long-term ipo planning, we are definitely thinking about it, a couple of

years out but have done several investment rounds with the role of rotating out shorter term investors, we want to decouple liquidity from exit, we don't want there to be an exit, there is no exit strategy to ever note it is our life's work and don't need an exit strategy for you life's work but we want liquidity, we want people who can have liquidity without being synchronized exit ipo, yes an ipo at some point -- >> rose: but you can't imagine a merger then? >> i can't imagine it i just don't like to. just having a good imagination doesn't mean you want to do it. >> rose: you like the inand not reporting to someone? >> yeah, i mean, independence and control are all illusions anyway but sure we definitely want to be in control of our own destiny. >> rose: do you get rid of phones. >> yes, we don't have desk phones as the company, big open spaces like there are no offices and the secret the that is just get rid of desk phones, people

really don't need to talk at their desk. >> rose: how many devices do you carry? >> oh, wow, me personally? >> a ton. >> rose: a ton? >> yeah. well, a smart phone, a a couple of smart phones. >> rose: how many smart phones. >> ipad and like a kindle or some other device, a couple of those, a smart phone, two phones, two tablet like things,. >> rose: why two phones? >> oh, because i have my iphone which is what i usually using and testing one of our other versions, android phone, and then the laptop, usually some kind of a camera,. >> rose: separate from on your smart money? >> usually, yes, usually i will have a higher end camera, primarily because i like buying cameras. there is really no good excuse for that. >> rose: i mean, are you constantly using facebook or twitter or constantly using instay gram or constantly using

tumbler? á i am kind of antisocial .. i use these things a little bit, twitter to inform me more than anything else, i respond to people on twitter so basically twitter is kind of an outreach for customer support for me. but i don't really use the soal stuff too much. in fact ever note was kind of ability social, antisocial at well, almost an anecdote to all of the social prefer around you, it is not about your friends, it is about you, it is kind of for yourself, it doesn't judge you. >> rose: i get it. let's just think out like about this question. so here i am and i say that of a variety of places. and try to inform myself and then ask questions so i can capture who someone is, what their work is, what their passion is, what they are about and perhaps enhance that experience for someone outside. and i want to maximize my

experience of information, insight, and to flow into me, you know, a series of opinions, analysis, questions. >> uh-huh. >> rose: solve that problem for me. >> wow. well, i think, i think the first thing is to identify very intentionally what wow want for yourself, so not to approach this as a collaboration problem. >> rose: right. >> to approach it as what do you want to achieve for yourself? what are your -- >> rose: suppose i answer that question by saying what i want for myself is to be able to understand as much as i can about the person and their context. >> yeah, i think then it is a question of, you know, you don't need -- you don't need things to recommend additional sours of information to you, you already have more sources of information you can possibly deal with so the value -- >> rose: well it could be the quadrant of that information and secondly have that information

summarized and things like that. >> so -- >> rose: you know, it is not an infinite day, it is a finite day. >> i he the most important thing is to not lose track of what you learn so always filter everything against the knowledge you already have. any time you learn a new fact it should -- your system should serendipitously show this is how it fits with your current knowledge of it and then just have really efficient tools for communication and we try to do that. that's what we try to do with skits for example, we try to say get rid of e-mail abuse, e-mail is hardly abused everywhere in a company. and get rid of e-mail. well you can't get rid of it but use ate whole lot less than what it is disbened for if you want fast feedback to people in a summary format -- >> rose: in is exactly what i do without necessarily the devices if i am preparing for something what i do is try to read a certain amount of things, decide on the architecture of

the panel, or of sort of the arc of what it is and then i reach a point where the continuation of the search fits into some place in the architecture but i have to get that architecture as my starting point. >> right. >> rose: and i will read a certain amount knowing i have got it and then everything then becomes supplementary. >> yes, yes. i think that is right. there is really an important thing here which is, and this is is the reason why most businesses are so terrible, there is a danger of trying to fit yourself, fit your system too closely to exactly what you need, if you try to make things fit like a glove, this is my exact requirement, this is how it fits you build something brittle and your life will change over the next few months and in different ways an that system won't and it will be brutal and just sort of junky, you have to make things that are much more fluid so what we try to do at ever note is give you systems that get you to

95 percent there but intentionally not a perfect fit because that five percent gap where you have to figure out huh to adopt yourself to the system a little bit, that is what makes it. >> that makes it robust, it is like i am from california now, you know, we have earthquakes over there so all of the building codes are really, if it is too rigid and there is an earthquake they fall down so you have to build in the fluid at this, fluid ity, that's how i do that in a sense .. by saying to people, producers and the like, you know,, don't become hostage to your research, you know, read and find out what else has been done or said and connect the dots. >> right. >> rose: but at some point set it aside and say to yourself, this is who i am talking to or this is the event i am covering. >> right. >> rose: what do i want to know? >> right. >> rose: where does my natural instinct take me? then you are not confined by the research. >> and it is really about

helping you make those connections as much as possible. >> rose: let me talk a little bit sort of the tech front in terms of how you see it and what excites you. you have, i think you said that it is not a new single device is not the big idea it is a 360-degree user experience. >> yes. >> rose: you smile because. >> this is the revolution that is coming. >> rose: explain. >> so there is this has receive. this is super exciting this year, is there is a giant revolution coming in how we think about products. so you have this major shift in the past five years from very pc centric design to phone centric design and people he that was disruptive and it really wasn't, all that was is the smart tone was a pc replacement so they made smaller versions of hair stuff for the phone but the next gap is totally different because you won't be designing software for glasses. you won't be designing software for glasses and for your watch

and for your pedometer and refrigerator and smart scale and your car and your tv and your shower, because it doesn't make sense, these things aren't replacements of each other so you will have to design products not for the device, not for the tone but for charlie so the product has to be meant for you and it has to take advantage of all of the devices you come into contact with, that you have been using at the same time so say i am wearing smart glasses and looking at you right now and wayn't to identify who you are and display information but i don't want it to have a ton of information just in my eye alls all the time but i want it to know who you are and then if i take out by phone i want the money to know i am looking at you through my glasses so the phone as soon as i look down to show you more detailed information so that kind of interaction like just two devices, completely changes the way everyone thinks about products and when you say that is just two devices that is 20 devices, it is a complete transformation of product design

and nobody knows how to do this right now, everyone -- a lot of people are trying to figure it out and we hope t to be among te first people to figure it out and it will be a huge transformation in the industry. >> rose: what will provide the leap? >> well, it is a combination of the hardware getting good enough so you can have these things you are wearing and it is glasses but also for the past few years all of the wearable devices for health and fitness have gone mainstream, fit bid and all of that kind of stuff. it is everything else being connected so that is just now hitting a critical mass where everything is smart enough and connected enough to do this. but the bottleneck is going to be experience design, like for maybe the first time in a long time, we are bottle necked by our ability to imagine and design user experiences, like it is not -- it is not a technical limitation, it is now a design limitation. and that is tremendous. >> rose: breaking through that is going to be going to be the

work of a lifetime. >> rose: some people say and maybe this is last year's thought, all roads lead to mobile and the cloud. >> yeah. so the cloud because it is called the cloud people feel like it is okay to be fuzzy and instinct when they talk about it because the clouds are kind of fluffy and instinct people are plea to throw those words around without it meaning anything. i kind of think about the amount of innovation that goes in a country is inversely proportional to the amount of times they say innovation. we deal with companies and have vice presidents of innovation. >> rose: exactly right. >> and there is actually one partner who is vice president of innovation in the cloud, oh, that is trifecta. the other big buzzword is obviously is data, big data, where is that revolution? >> so we are on the other side of that spectrum, so we are not a big data company, we have close to 60 million users and don't have a big data problem,

we have 60 million small data problems. we do quite a bit of analysis of your information but do it exclusively to give you features for your benefit, like that never leaves your account, we never, we are never arching together multiple users or doing it to target ads or sell you anything so the whole idea that everything about what you do in life is capture and recorded and monetized kind of is not necessarily against your will, certainly, foreign to what you want, it is not a future i am in love with. so we, everything is totally private and never look at it and don't see ourselves as big data. we wouldn't be very smart about data, but we are definitely on the other side of the fence from a lot of companies who are basically figuring out how to make money off of your data. >> rose: well more than that too, yes indeed but at the same time, creating a whole sense of feedback that will help us deal with diseases and hots of other things. >> yes for those areas it is fantastically great so using google to predict, you know, flu

outbreaks two weeks before the cdc can do it, absolutely that is fantastic and socially good. >> rose: a range of sensors and everything else. >> that is great and will is a meaningful split that needs to happen in the public discussion between big data where what are the really useful things we can do, separated from how do we get to sell you more ads. >> rose:. >> so the problem is so much of the work straddles those two things. the companies talk about the social good in the data but where are they spending their resources it is how to get you to click on more ads. >> rose: for a long time people have worked hard but not perfected voice recognition. >> yes. >> now they are talking about facial recognition. >> yes. we have been talking an that for a while,. >> rose: they have but at the same time a whole new dimension you expect ever note to look at a photograph, and tell you who it is. >> i expect it to also look at a person and tell you who it is. not just a photograph but via glasses or whatever.

>> rose: and feed the data. so you are sitting next to someone on a plane, turn, look at that person, and somehow with the feedback will be who it is and what their job is? >> no. that is pot -- i don't think that is going to happen. >> rose: why not? >> it will tell me who they are if i met them before, it is to aid my memory, not to spy on people, to aid my own memory. >> rose: let's assume it is to spy on people. >> i don't think that will work. >> rose: why? >> because the data bank is not that big? >> yes, i think trying to match your face against 1,000 people that i actually met and know is a very solvable problem with very few false positives trying to solve that for 6 billion people is going to be i don't think so much you will never trust it and kind of useless like embarrassed to use it plus -- >> rose: that cannot be your sample, i mean you could -- suppose it is not 6 billion but 500 million. >> it -- >> so technically it would be tough to do that with the kind of accuracy that will give you a great experience, all of these things are going to be

mainstream successful they have to be magical. >> rose:. >> if it happens half the time you can't use it, plus there will be privacy safeguards against that, i don't want people to know -- if they don't know me i certainly don't want them to be able to identify me all the time. >> rose: is privacy big, a looming question for all of us in what we are doing here? >> i think so, and we kind of have it easy at ever note because everything you put on the terminal is private so it is like our whole business is to be the good guys on that and say everything you put is private and not ours we don't share it or look at it, we publish three laws of data protection, it is not ours, it is yours, your data is private, our business model isn't based on doing anything clever to it and your data is portable, you can always take it and go but that is because that's how we built the business model there are other companies making great stuff who i think have a more ambiguous relationships with privacy that need to be tested. >> rose: and challenged. >> and find the right balance.

there is ultimately it is up to what the individuals want. >> rose: did you say once that in the future your own brain might end up being the last place that you search for information? >> i don't know if i said that directly, but, yeah, that sounds like something i could have said, yeah. i think because beyond your brain you can assimilate so much and have such a remarkable ability to retrieve it? >> it is not what your brain is good at, just like naked facts stored in retrieval is not what your brain is good at. memory is bad at that, really worse than we think and if you do any studies about, even things you think you remember incorrectly if you go back and look at what they are, they are low fidelity, we remember stories, we don't remember facts. >> we have to remember facts. basically, storage is how people remember facts. >> but very often you get them wrong in ways that are convenience convenient to the story. >> compare me to my 50,000-year-old frozen caveman

ancestor, technology over the past few thousand years have magnified by orders of magnitude what our bodies can do, my 50,000-year-old ancestor could carry some amount of weight and the wheel method and one times more weight because of the wheel and the airplane lets me travel thousands of times further in a day but our brains are identical in 50,000-year-old brain is almost identical to mine and his brain can hold a few hundred facts except the world, the facts that's all he needed, he knew which berries are edible and how to track certain animals but their paw prints and when a storm is coming. >> rose: survival. >> and i still have a few hundred packets in my head too, except two things, two-thirds of it is like simpson quotes and useless stuff i didn't choose and just got crammed in there and b the modern world requires that i have mastery of much more than a few hundred facts, i have access thomas industry of

millions of fact but my brain hasn't evolve voluntarilied to that so we are singularly poorly evolved to live in no dern world and that's the goal of things like ever note, we want to give you tools that will do for your cognitive abilities what the airplane did for, you know, for your ability to travel long distances. >> rose: so if i want to get ever note, i can go to most app stores and get it. >> app.com or anyplace where you would expect to find cool technology. >> rose: thank you. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: phil libin from ever note, thanks for joining us, see you next time.

funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. you are watching

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