captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: the afghan government today backed away from peace talks with the taliban and security discussions with the u.s. good evening, i'm jeffrey brown. >> suarez: and i'm ray suarez. on the "newshour" tonight, we take a closer look at the reversal by afghan president karzai and its impact on the drive toward stability in the country. >> brown: then, before berlin's historic brandenburg gate, president obama called for a dramatic decrease in nuclear weapons. margaret warner explores the prospects of the potential arms agreement with russia. >> suarez: miles o'brien has the story of the strange looking insects that emerge every 17-years and the scientists charmed by the chorus of the cicadas. >> this is kind of our super bowl. this is a blockbuster for us. it's got birth, it's got death,

it's got romance, it's got sex, it's got everything. >> brown: we continue our series "inside immigration reform". tonight, virginia democrat tim kaine. >> the thing that i think most important is that as we look at certain things like border security-- and i'm open the amendments-- we shouldn't use those to delay the path to citizenship. >> suarez: and we close with a call for a renewed focus on the humanities in the classroom from duke university president richard brodhead and actor and author john lithgow. >> studying the humanities and the arts at the college level put me into a habit of learning that's defined my life if all sorts of ways. >> brown: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i want to make things more secure. >> i want to treat more dogs. >> our business needs more cases.

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>> brown: just 24 hours ago, there was talk of new prospects for finding peace in afghanistan. today, president hamid karzai angrily changed course, leaving the initiative in doubt and u.s. officials doing damage control. the reversal by president karzai came a day after he announced his government would open negotiations with the taliban, in qatar. >> we don't have any immediate preconditions for talks between the afghan peace council and the taliban, but we have principles laid down. >> brown: today though, karzai nixed those plans, and lodged several complaints. chief among them was the taliban's use of its formal name

"the islamic emirate of afghanistan" at its new office in qatar. a member of karzai's afghan peace council said the name suggests it's an embassy, representing an actual government. >> ( translated ): the senior american officials have assured us in a written letter in the past that the legal suggestion of the afghan high peace council will be respected and will be guaranteed by the opening of this office cannot be used as a political settlement to build up relations with the united nations or any other countries, but now we see this office is >> brown: state department spokeswoman jen psaki said secretary of state john kerry spoke with karzai last night and again this morning. >> the secretary reiterated the fact that we do not recognize the name islamic emirate of afghanistan. he noted that the government of qatar has taken steps today to ensure that the political office is in compliance with the of foreign affairs has issued a statement clarifying that the

name of the office is the political office of the afghan taliban and not the political office of the islamic emirate of afghanistan. and has had the sign with the incorrect name in front of the door taken down. >> brown: psaki also addressed karzai's objection to reports that u.s. officials would meet with the taliban first. >> there isn't a meeting. i know there were reports of it, but reports of a meeting being scheduled or on the books are inaccurate. if there's a role for the u.s. to play in that, that's up to the afghans to decide. >> brown: u.s. officials also have to address another karzai decision today. he suspended talks on how many american troops would stay in afghanistan and under what conditions after combat forces withdraw at the end of 2014. in berlin, president obama played down any suggestions that the overall peace effort has foundered before it began. >> we had anticipated that at the outset, there were going to be some areas of friction, to put it mildly, in getting this thing off the ground.

that's not surprising. but i think that president karzai himself recognizes the need for political reconciliation. the challenge is how do you get those things started while you're also at war. >> brown: underscoring that point, five afghan police officers were killed yesterday by fellow officers in a so- called insider attack. the taliban also claimed responsibility for a rocket attack on bagram air base in kabul that killed four american troops. it came just hours after international forces handed over full security control to the afghan military and police. >> brown: a short time ago i spoke to rod nordland of the "new york times." he's in doha where the talks with the taliban were supposed to take place. rod nordland, welcome to you. so yesterday this seemed buttoned up and choreographed. what happened and why? were u.s. officials taken by surprise? >> well, they certainly seemed to have been taken by surprise.

the afghans were furious when they saw the taliban flying a flag outside their new office. to them it looked like an embassy and when they heard taliban statements they sounded like they were describing an embassy. i landed here this evening, in fact, and asked a taxi to take me to the taliban office and they had no idea what i was talking about. not just because it was new but because i was using the wrong words. when i said the taliban'm by baahsy they said "oh, yeah." by the time it go there the signs were gone. there was no indication that they were even there other than police cars and they seem to want to try to accommodate the afghan government's vuthy that they shouldn't be advertising themselves as something they supposedly are not. >> brown: that's what i was wondering. do we know yet to what extent secretary of state kerry's intervention talking with

president karzai, how much of an impact that might have had? >> well, it sounds like it's done something. i gather karzai's people are saying that maybe in a couple days they can paper this over. it's certainly a setback and i think we'll have to v to see what moves the taliban makes next. what they have to say, if they are, indeed, talking and whether the afghan government will be satisfied that they're not trying to present themselves as a kind of alternative embassy to the afghan government's embassy here. >> brown: does this also apply to the question of the suspension of talks between the u.s. and the afghan government on the u.s. military forces after 2014? where does all that stand? >> yeah, i think they'll get that going again. i don't -- they never described it as anything other than a suspension and it's clearly in the interest of the afghan government to have some sort of military cooperation with the united states after 2014. among other things, they can't pay their own soldiers and

policemen if the united states doesn't do it. >> brown: so your sense is that these talks may go forward in the next couple of days? i mean, can they go forward without the participation of the afghan government or is that necessary? >> i think everyone agrees it's necessary and i think there were signals from the taliban and from their cut tarry hosts that they were willing to talk to the afghan government. they've always said they wouldn't talk to what they regarded as puppets, they would only talk to the americans. and they'll first have talks with the americans. they want to trade their prisoners in guantanamo for the only american -- the only american that they hold prisoner. but after that everyone expects that it should move pretty quickly to some sort of talks with the afghans. now, whether the taliban will follow through on that, i think that's a big question. and i think they want to just push that off indefinitely while

they're presenting themselves as they have so far as having an office is that is some sort of at least public relations exercise on behalf of the taliban to the rest of the world. and that's exactly what the afghan government does not want to see. >> brown: rod nordland of the "new york times," thanks so much. >> suarez: still to come on the "newshour": president obama's call to reduce nuclear weapons; the invasion of the cicadas; senator tim kaine on the immigration debate and the importance of being a liberal arts major. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: the federal reserve painted a brighter picture of the economy today. the central bank estimated unemployment will fall a little faster than expected this year and next. chairman ben bernanke said that means the fed may start scaling back its stimulus efforts later this year. he promised it will come in measured steps, to reassure investors. >> we are in a more complex type of situation, but we are determined to be as clear as we

can, and we hope that you are and your listeners and the markets will all be able to follow what we're saying. >> sreenivasan: bernanke's words did little to reassure wall street today. stocks fell sharply on fears that if the fed curtails its bond-buying program, interest rates will rise and growth will slow. the dow jones industrial average lost 206 points to close at 15,112. the nasdaq fell nearly 39 points to close at 3,443. the internal revenue service is taking new fire-- this time over plans to pay bonuses to employees. republican senator chuck grassley of iowa said it comes to $70 million, despite a white house directive to cancel such payments due to automatic spending cuts. the i.r.s. said it's doing what it's legally required to do under a union contract. the u.s. naval academy charged three male mid-shipmen with raping a female classmate. officials said the accused for football players. the incident allegedly happened

at an off campus party a year ago. the fay value academy has been under pressure to act in the case amid reports of growing sexual abuse in the military. president obama today sought to ease european concerns about u.s. surveillance programs. he met with german chancellor angela merkel in berlin, and said the monitoring of phone calls and internet data is narrowly targeted. >> this is not a situation in which we are rifling through the ordinary emails of german citizens or american citizens or french citizens or anybody else. all of it is done under the oversight of the courts. and as a consequence, we've saved lives. >> sreenivasan: merkel said it's necessary to find an equitable balance between security and civil liberties. in somalia, seven militants from the islamist group al shabaab attacked the main u.n. compound in mogadishu today. they detonated a car bomb at the building's front gate, then stormed the site with gunfire and explosives. at least 20 people were killed,

including all seven of the militants. the biggest protests to sweep brazil in more than 20 years showed no sign of ending today. overnight demonstrations led to looting and vandalism. today, some 200 activists blocked a major highway in sao paulo. meanwhile in fortaleza, police fired tear gas to disperse 15,000 protesters who cut off a main road to the soccer stadium ahead of a tournament game. the demonstrators are targeting corruption, poor services and high taxes, at a time when brazil is spending billions to host next year's world cup of soccer. the number of refugees worldwide has reached an 18-year high. data from the u.n. refugee agency today showed more than 45 million people were counted as refugees last year or displaced within their own countries. the civil war in syria was a major factor, along with fighting in afghanistan. there's encouraging news on a vaccine against cervical cancer. the u.s. centers for disease control reported today that the h.p.v. vaccine cuts infections

among teenage girls by half. officials at the c.d.c. said it underscores the need to have more girls get the shots. right now, only about half of teen girls in the u.s. have had at least one dose. only a third have had all three. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to ray. >> suarez: president obama announced today that the u.s. could reduce it's stockpile of long range nuclear weapons by a third and called upon russia to make similar cuts. margaret warner has the story. >> we may no longer live in fear of global annihilation, but so long as nuclear weapons exist we are not truly safe. >> warner: president obama made his new appeal for further nuclear weapons cuts at the famed brandenburg gate, symbol of the city that was a flashpoint in the cold war years of nuclear standoff. >> peace with justice means securing a world without nuclear weapons, no matter how distant that dream might be. so as president i've

strengthened our efforts to stop the spread of nuclear weapons, and reduce the number and role of america's nuclear weapons. because of the new start treaty, we're on track to cut american and russian deployed nuclear warheads to their lowest levels since the 1950s. >> warner: in 2010, president obama and then-russian president dmitry medvedev signed "new start"-- the new "strategic arms reduction treaty." the u.s. senate ratified it later that year, and it took effect in early 2011. the pact required each country to reduce its strategic or long- range nuclear stockpiles to 1,550 weapons from 6,000. today, the president spelled out a new goal. >> but we have more work to do, i've determined we can ensure the security of america and our allies and maintain a strong and credible strategic deterrent while reducing our deployed, strategic nuclear weapons by up to one third. and i intend to seek negotiated

cuts with russia to move beyond cold war nuclear postures. >> warner: mr. obama, who once laid out a vision for a nuclear- free world, said today he'd also pursue ways to reduce both countries' shorter-range battlefield nukes. >> at the same time we'll work with our nato allies to seek bold reductions in u.s. and russian tactical weapons in europe, and we can forge a new international framework for peaceful nuclear power. >> warner: he and russian president vladimir putin met privately this week at the g-8 summit in northern ireland, in a tense session that focused largely on syria. aides said mr. obama briefed him on the arms cut proposal, but putin did not mention it today. instead, he again raised objections to a u.s. anti- missile system being deployed in europe. but russia's deputy prime minister said moscow couldn't take the proposal for further cuts in nuclear arms seriously, while the u.s. continues

building a system to intercept those weapons. and putin's foreign policy advisor yuri ushakov said any negotiations on arms reductions would have to include other nuclear powers as well. the federation of american scientists estimates france, china and britain have 200 to 300 nuclear weapons, each, while israel, india, and pakistan have roughly 100 apiece. the u.s. and other nations are pressing north korea and iran to halt their nuclear programs. the north koreans have carried out three nuclear test explosions, but have not shown they can mount a warhead on a missile. iran denies its nuclear program is meant to produce weapons. for reaction to mr. obama's calls for further nuclear arms reductions, we're joined by eric edelman, underscretary of defense for policy in the george w. bush administration. he's now at the center for strategic and budgetary assessments. and joseph cirincione, president

of ploughshares fund, a foundation that seeks to rid the world of nuclear weapons. welcome to you both. joe cirincione, to you first. what is the case for and why is the president now calling for these further reductions coming so soon after the really big, huge reductions of just a couple of years ago? >> well, the reductions of a couple of years ago in the new start actually just tweaked the current u.s. arsenals. you heard the president today, margaret. he said as long as nuclear weapons exist we are not truly safe. he's echoing the vision of ronald reagan who wanted to abolish nuclear weapons from the face of the earth and john f. kennedy who said we must abolish the weapons of war before they abolish us. what the president has done is restart his nuclear policy that actually has been pretty dead in the water for the last couple of years. he's saying that we have to get rid of these nuclear nightmares that still haunt us. one nuclear weapon can destroy a city. 100 nuclear weapons can destroy

human civilization. the united states has 7,000 nuclear weapons. russia has 8,000 nuclear weapons. we spend $50 to $60 billion a year maintaining these arsenals. it's time to reduce these costs, to reduce these risks. the president took an important step to prevent new nations from getting these weapons, to prevent terrorists from getting these weapons and to prevent the use of these nuclear weapons anywhere by design or miscalculation. i applaud him for his efforts. >> warner: do you applaud him, eric edelman? and how significant are these cuts if you still have a thousand long range weapons rather than 1500 long range missiles? >> i think the president has embarked on a risk ree course. we're entering a dangerous nuclear era. as in your introduction you've noted we've got nuclear weapons states emerging in northeast asia, in southwest asia. we still have requirements to deter, although we're not on

hair-trigger alert anymore, russian and to a lesser degree chinese nuclear forces. that's why general chilton, who was the command over strategic command when the new start treaty was ratified a new years ago said he would not be comfortable that our deterrence requirements could be met at numbers lower than those in a new start treaty. the president said today that he wants to negotiate these preferably with russia but as a former diplomat i don't know why you would di claire your bottom line before going into a negotiation. >> woodruff: joe cirincione, are there dangers, is there a down side to going below some level at a time when, as eric edelman says, you have a rising number of countries either nuclear or trying to go nuclear? >> well, margaret, it's hard to imagine any military mission today that requires us to use one nuclear weapon. we haven't in over 68 years. but perhaps i'm wrong. maybe you have some missions that would require ten.

maybe you need 500. we have 7,000. so it's hard to believe that you can't trim this force by the few hundred that the president is suggesting and somehow that would risk u.s. national security. quite the opposite. there is a broad bipartisan consensus in the american security establishment today that whatever benefits these weapons may have had during the cold war they are now a liability. they threaten us. they do not protect us. so the president took a very cautious step today. he's saying let's go down to a thousand strategic forces. let's take them off the hair-trigger alert. i big to differ, eric, they are still ready to launch. we have over a thousand weapons ready to launch in 15 minutes orless. why? why? why do we maintain many this posture with all those risks? we see the morale problem we ear having with the i.c.b.m. officers in the air force who know they're in dead end jobs, stuck in silos in montana and wyoming and north dakota waiting to push a button that will never be pushed.

time to get rid of this arsenal and reorient our forces for the real threats of the 21st censure-- terrorism, the spread of these weapons to other countries. that's where we should concentrate our efforts. >> warner: let me get eric edelman back on this. respond to that but let's jump ahead to russia's reaction? what did you make of russia's reaction from the deputy foreign minister and advisor, one linking it to missile defense and one saying we're not going to talk about further cuts unless all these other countries are in it. >> first of all, the purpose of nuclear weapons is not to use them, of course, on the battlefield, it's to deter their use and one of the requirements we have is not just to deter an attack on the united states but we have responsibilities to deter attack on our treaty allies in asia and in europe. and an arbitrary slashing of our nuclear force posture is very likely to trigger concerns among those allies about whether we're prepared to defense them with a nuclear umbrella anymore or not and perhaps spark some to think

about developing nuclear weapons programs. >> warner: even with a thousand long range and thousands of -- >> even with a thousand. and with regard to the russian reaction, i think the russians on the one hand have wanted to have treaty binding legal limits on u.s. missile defenses and on advanced conventional long-range strike capability but we didn't hear from the president today is what he is willing to give up in order to get an agreement from the russians on that score. but on the other hand, i think the russians reacted quite sensibly to the proposal saying that others have to be involved. when we had 6,000 warheads active in the force, the idea of china becoming a nuclear peer would have been a bit fanciful. but now going down to a thousand you make that a realistic possibility. i think the russians understandably don't want to give china an incentive to build up. >> woodruff: we have just a minute left so i want to get you

both quickly on this point. the president kept using the words "talk about" or "negotiate" but he never talked about a treaty. do you think he's headed to doing what george h.w. bush did on one agreement, joe cirincione, first to you, and that is try to negotiate something without a binding treaty that has to go to the senate? >> right, you can make agreements with other countries without actually having a treaty. george h.w. bush got rid of 13,000 u.s. nuclear wednesday unilaterally. gorbachev matched this. the president clearly indicated his preferences for negotiation bus any president would be foolish to give up the right to size the u.s. nuclear forces the way he sees fit, we can not let russia dictate what weapons we deploy or how much we spend. that's our prerogative, not theirs. >> i think there's going to be a lot of concern in the congress and particularly the senate about this, not for the least of the reasons being that the russians as the strategic force posture commission recognized have been in violation of the

unilateral undertakings they made with regard to the george h.w. bush reductions joe just talked about. >> warner: is there anything the senate could do to prevent this? or the congress? >> well, the congress, in the current version of the national defense authorization act pass bid the house there are requirements not to fund new start reductions until the administration has ratified or -- suggested that the agreement be sent to them as a treaty. >> warner: we forget it costs money to actually build down. eric edelman, thank you. joe cirincione, thank you both. >> brown: next, one of nature's fascinating and deafening spectacles. quiet leafy neighborhoods suddenly sound more like airports and look like scenes from a bad horror movie. "newshour" science correspondent miles o'brien tells the tale. >> reporter: these boys likely do not know it but they are

playing with some bugs that are older than they are. the periodical cicada invasion will stop soon enough, but the once every 17th summer event is impossible to ignore. >> this is like a bit much. it's like every day you hear this racket, and then at night it gets quiet, and then in the morning you see all the dead ones in the driveway. it's pretty gross. >> reporter: of course beauty is in the compound eyes of the beholder. and like them or not-- with the emergence of one of the big east coast broods-- the cicadas are ready for their close-ups. this is a scene from "return of the cicadas." for six years now, filmmaker samuel orr has been capturing cicadas in spectacular close up, time lapse fashion as they emerge from the ground, climb, molt, reproduce, and then die. sam is, naturally, a big cicada

fan. >> i find it amusing that people are afraid of cicadas it makes as much sense to be afraid of a cicada than it does to be afraid of a butterfly. i find the nymphs that are coming out of the ground, the stage before they became adults with wings, you know not to sound silly, but at this point i find them cod be adorable. >> reporter: the cicada life cycle is unique in the insect world and just plain strange in any other. we see them on the sunny side of the soil for just a few weeks as their adult livesbegin and end amid the unmistakable chorus. but for the remainder of their 17 year lifespan, they are underground in the dark, sucking on the roots of trees. and you thought your life was boring. in the world of entomology, is there a better narrative than this? >> this is kind of our superbowl. this is a blockbuster for us. it's got birth, it's got death,

it's got romance, it's got sex, it's got everything. >> reporter: entomologist mike raupp is the self described bug man at the university of maryland at college park. we met at a graveyard in northern virginia that was alive and humming with cicadas. >> this little lady's on her way up the treetop just now. >> reporter: she is part of periodical cicada brood number two, which emerges every 17 years from georgia to connecticut. it is one of 19 broods of periodical cicadas across the u.s. which crawl out of the soil every 17 or 13 years. >> they'll mate females to lay their eggs in the tips of the branches and then the little tiny nymphs are going to tumble down from maybe 60 or 80 feet from the sky to branches, hit the ground then burrow underneath for another 17 years. >> reporter: and so the circuitous cicada circle of life continues. the insects do not seem fearful

of large creatures, do not bite or sting, their main defense mechanism: sheer numbers. scientists call the cicada strategy for survival of the species predator satiation. >> it's to simply emerge in such massive numbers simultaneously that you fill the gullet of every predator that wants to eat you in a given location, but there are still enough left to carry on for the species. >> reporter: for their predators, the cicadas offer an all you can eat buffet of epic proportions. scientists have estimated as many as a million and a half individuals in a single acre. >> watch how he stops and listens. see how he turns toward the sound. now they've both turned. >> reporter: john cooley is a researcher at the university of connecticut. and when the weather warms, he

too, makes his own emergence to observe, map and commune with the creatures. >> and you see, he's my friend for life now. >> reporter: i guess you could call him a cicada whisperer. cooley is trying to make an map of the brood two emergence. it's the first time this brood has come up for air in the era of social networking and crowdsourcing, so he has drummed up his own human wave: thousands of citizen scientists who are charting the cicadas, hoping an accurate map will emerge. >> the mapping project is an attempt to go out with g.p.s. units, make records that say on this date, at this time, with these maps, i saw this many cicadas. so that in the future, we can see if that changed and then we can also look at the broods and have a very good idea of where they actually are. >> reporter: david rothenberg is also very interested in where the cicadas are. a musician who gets his inspiration from the natural

world, we caught up with him in new paltz new york, hunting for... well, i guess you could call them backup singers. >> today, i am seeking the best sound of singing 17-year cicadas to make some music with them, to collect some for a show we're playing tonight. we're going to have live cicadas performing with us. >> reporter: rothenberg knows what he is looking for and listening to. >> what you're hearing at first just sounds like noise, like white noise. it's just noise until you start to listen and you realize, "oh, what's that?" you're hearing a wash of noise that synchronizes. it comes up and then down. that's magicicada cassini. it's the smallest of the three species that comes out when periodic cicadas come out, but it's the loudest. the second sound is like a tone.

that's magicicada septendecim. those individuals that are making this sound are going, "pharaoh, pharaoh." then there's the third species called magicicada septendecula that's going... >> reporter: rothenberg has created and performed music with birds, whales and now bugs. >> some people think it's the most absurd of these projects, but others think it's the most obvious, because it's such a musical sound and a human can find a way into it even with a sound that's ostensibly totally different. let's just see what happens. ♪

>> reporter: can you think of another insect that would prompt a quirky scene like this? cicada mania is real. sam orr ran a kickstarter campaign to fund a feature length film on cicadas. he asked for $3,000 and within a few weeks had more than 20 grand in pledges. why all the buzz? >> it's not often, at least it seems to me that it feels like you can make eye contact with an insect. >> reporter: back at the cemetery with bug man mike raupp, i tested another theory on why periodical cicadas seem to resonate so roundly with humans. it's a benchmark that nature offers us-- a 17-year benchmark and you can't help but think of your own mortality, can't you?

>> you're absolutely right. i marked my career by the emergence of the next cicada. i've had the good fortune to witness several of these, but i know fundamentally that i've only got a couple of these broods left. >> reporter: here's to seeing the next one, right? so here's to seeing the next one and on the sunny side of the cicadas, if you please. >> brown: online, more music: david rothenberg playing his clarinet with cicadas as his backup singers. that's on our science page. >> suarez: we turn now to politics and the ongoing debate over a pathway to citizenship for undocumented people. the senate today continued work on a sweeping bill to overhaul the nation's immigration system, moving toward a final vote before july fourth. we have another of our one-on- one discussions with lawmakers. last night, i spoke with republican senator rand paul of kentucky for his views of the legislation. he told us he would like to see conservatives have more of a hand in shaping the measure, but

he does favor a pathway to eventual legal residence, and citizenship. tonight, democratic senator tim kaine of virginia. i spoke with him a short time ago. senator kaine, welcome. as debate continues over the gang of eight's draft proposal and lots of amendments are being proposed, are there some bottom lines that you have going into this process? some things that you feel must be in a reform bill for you to vote for it? >> well, ray, i think the bill does a very good job of balance ago lot of bottom lines: visa reform, path to citizenship, border security, family reunification, the status of a lot of central americans who are here under a t.p.s.-- temporary protective status. but the thing that i think is most important is as we look at certain things like border security-- and i'm open to amendments-- we shouldn't use those to delay the path it to-to-citizenship. that's the thing i'm very

concerned about as we focus on the amendments being offered on the floor as we speak. >speak. >> suarez: well, what's wrong with having it phased in, that path to citizenship? last night senator paul was on the program and he said "i would allow people who are here on work visas to also simultaneously stand in the same line that a person in mexico city is in right now." in other words, give them legal work visas to remain in the country while they pursue their goals of legal residence and citizenship on the same track as people who are doing it from outside the country. >> ray, some of the proposals i've seen about phasing, for example, involve repeated returns to congress to ask congress to specify okay, enough has now been done on border security and i view that as a potential just a delaying technique. it's hard to get stuff done in congress. instead what we should do is make the commitments on the border security steps that we'll take. we already spend $18 billion a year on border security and the -- and we've had great success

in recent years in reducing the number of illegal border crossings. this bill authorizes up to an additional $6.5 billion a year for border security along with other steps and i think let's go ahead and take those steps and take them now but not make the citizenship path dependent upon future votes in congress as we know how filibuster and other rules can have a way of delaying action. i think the moment is now for decision and the bill represents a good balance of the interests. >> suarez: how should we handle oversight of border security in by many metric it is boarder is a tighter, better policed area than it had been in the past but it's a kind of subjective thing whether the boarder is absolutely safe and sound. >> i mean, it is tough so you can look at numbers of arrests if you're doing more arrests does it tell you you're doing a better job or does it tell you more people are trying to cross? there are some challenges but i

think the pros who do this, the prosecution and new security techniques along especially the commitment to greater investments, i'm not the border security professional myself so the way that those additional dollars are best used to help secure the border, i want to leave that to key officials in the relevant agencies and have them come report to congress how they're using the monies but if we provide them those resources given the track we've already seen where we're reducing illegal border crossings this bill gives them the tools they need to take them further. >> suarez: one thing senator paul last night and many republicans in both chairman pw-rs have talked about, when it comes to the future of immigration enforcement is how to deal with the people who are here already and as senator paul said last night they should not be give an privilege for breaking the law. how do you respond to that? >> well, i agree. so if this was a proposal that was just an amnesty proposal i

wouldn't be in favor of it. instead people who are here without documents who have broken the laws they have to undergo a rigorous 13-year path with a whole series of requirements from learning english to having criminal background checks to making sure that they're paying taxes to paying an additional fine because they have violated the law. that list of consequences is as stiff as we've had in any piece of legislation before the senate. it's a longer path to citizenship than was in the bill that was considered and ultimately not adopted by the senate in 2007 so i think the -- i think it's a fair point that someone who is here without documents shouldn't be able to do that without consequence but i think we've built consequences into this bill that are significant. >> suarez: your leader, senator harry reid, is pushing for a vote in the shat by the fourth of july. while in the house the majority backs a security-only bill. is there enough common ground for the two chambers to even

talk to each other to begin a conversation that ends with comprehensive reform of some kind in 2013? >> ray, that may be the big question. my sense is this: and even hearing all that's being said in the house. if we are able to pass legislation in the senate with a significant vote margin -- i hope we're going to get over 660 and i'd love it if we could get near 70 votes. if we can have a significant margin for comprehensive reform then we send that bill to the house with a strong message: this is not a republican bill, it's not a democratic bill, it's a bipartisan bill and an american bill and i think if we send that comprehensive package to the house with a strong vote margin, i think that will send the message and affect how the house acts and will create that space for common ground for comprehensive reform this year. >> suarez: this week's c.b.o. scoring that demonstrates some potential economic benefits for reform, does that strengthen your hand? >> it does.

it's been -- it was interesting, ray, most people wouldn't understand this but everybody waits around on the c.b.o. scores because no one knows what they're going to say. they are truly independent and quite frankly often very unpredictable when that score came out yesterday suggesting over the course of two decades there would be potential savings of up to a trillion dollars. $200 plus billion in the first decade and over $700 billion in the second. that added a significant bit of data to the proponents and supporters of reform, but it was in accord with what we were feeling throughout our history waves of immigration of talented and decaded people have been a great speu fur so the american economy. look at the c.e.o.s of major technology companies that have been started in the country in the last 30, 40 years and you see that immigrant spirit is still very much alive in helping grow the american economy. >> suarez: senator tim kaine of virginia, thanks for being with us. >> you bet, ray. >> suarez: my interview with

rand paul is on our web page and you can watch my series of what's inside the legislation and review our in-depth coverage of the issue. >> brown: now: languages, history, philosophy and more: a call for new commitments to the humanities in higher education. a report to that effect was issued today by a congressionally-mandated panel of the american academy of arts and sciences. it comes at a time when much focus has been on the need for the u.s. to nurture more graduates who specialize in science, technology, math and engineering. it also comes amid lower funding for research in the humanities and a drop in interest in civics courses. two members of the panel join us now: co-chair richard brodhead, president of duke university. and actor and writer, john lithgow. thank you and welcome to both of you. >> mice to be here. >> brown: richard brodhead, is there a critique here that we as

a country have gone too far in the direction of the so-called stem? >> i don't think it's so much that we've gone too far because many could argue we still haven't gone far enough. the performance of students in our school systems in stem subjects is not yet the wonder of the world. it's that by focusing on one part of the problem we forgot that actually the problem requires a balanced solution. we have great scientists. we have the national academy of engineering on our commission, the person who authored the report that the whole concept of stem came out of, norm augustine, was on our commission. and they say it was never their view that stem alone made for an educated person let alone even an educated scientist. >> brown: how do you define or measure the problem? do you put in the personal terms for you? >> well, very much so in my case. i studied humanities all the way through college. at a certain point i made a misstep and became an actor, although i was never cut out to be an academic.

but i have always felt that studying the humanities and the arts at the college level just put me into the habit of learning that's really defined my life in all sorts of ways. and it's extremely difficult to quantify exactly what the humanities does for you. >> brown: that's one of the problems here, right? >> it's certainly problem and it tends to be neglected. the study of humanities is not being attacked, it's not a terrible political football which is always a great danger because people have different belief systems but it is being simply neglected. there is an imbalance and my feeling is always been that these two sides of the brain have to work together. >> suarez>> brown: but i have the experience-- and i know you do,

everyday, and you do, too, of talking to college students at campus. and i'm also a parent myself, so i know. >> i'm one, too. >> brown: the huge costs of college, the dim job prospects in this economy which we report on all the time. how do you look parents and teachers in the eye and say "you must have someplace for the humanities as well while there's a focus on jobs? practical matter?" >> i think the burden falls on educators to educate people about the meaning and value of education. i'm not sure we've done a good enough job making that case as well as we could. >> suarez>> brown: you're blaming yourself and others? >> i think educators play a role in it. we need to remind the world that what makes a person successful are not the things that get you a job the day you graduate. i knew almost no one at 40 or 50 who did the same thing they did when they got out of college. but when people end up being able to lead successful and creative lives is because they had a broad range of skills that they were able to use in

versatile and opportunistic ways as life unfolded. so you shouldn't prepare yourself too narrowly. you think you're being prudent but it's penny-wise and pound foolish. better to develop more parts of yourself, more different skills and abilities to be prepared for the chances of life. >> brown: but that's still a hard case to make for many people. >> especially in a time of economic hardship. >> brown: huge debt people come out of college with. >> yup. all of these things are addressed in the report itself. it's -- superpragmatism kicks in and it's easy to lose track of the value of this. by the same token people who do study humanities, they need a balanced education, too. >> brown: you use the word "invest" a number of times, but invest what? i don't think you put dollar amounts on all this.

invest time? invest money? fiscal -- >> care, love. i think love is a good investment. >> pelley: why not pull dollar amounts on it? >> there will need to be dollars to accomplish some of what we talk about but first of all work the humanities is much more inexpensive than work in other disciplines, especially scientific research. second of all i don't think money is the first thing we need. the first thing we need is for people who know and care about the value of literacy, the value of understanding foreign countries, the value of leading the kind of rich spiritual life you can get in the acquaintance with philosophy and literature. we need people to remind the public of the value of those things. i don't find this a hard case to make when you speak with people. there -- it's been a while since anybody has tried to wake people up to how much they already do know and care about these things. >> brown: you're coming to this process from the outside. is there a specific example that you found from your talks or that came up in the report that

you would say "here's something we could do specifically to help this?" >> well, carl ikeener be i have a member of our commissioner, former ambassador of afghanistan. >> and general. >> and one of the final segments of the report is all about this global world we live in. eikenberry and how essential it is for us to have a good sense of other cultures. foreign languages, the study of foreign languages has diminished in importance. people simply making the assumption, well, english is a more -- is the common denominator language of the world so why bother? this is very wrong headed. >> our group has been amazing. we all do different things for a living and we've all taught each other how we understand this issue and learned from each other how they see it. the day carl eikenberry looked at us and said "if you've been a general you know weapons are the least effective weapon in your security arsenal. if you don't know anything about

cultures, if you don't know anything about histories, foreign languages you're going to find yourself in places where the weapons of the world can't solve the problems you went there to solve. that seems to me a plea for the humanities. >> brown: what's your final take away from this process? >> well, it's been fascinating for me. i'm certainly not an academic i'm a member of this small contingent of this 50 plus commission who are in the performing arts-- yo-yo ma, emmylou harris, george lucas who's done stuff for us. i sort of treubt my own experience from the creative side and how my own history of the humanities -- i mean, i'm one of those odd actors who studied the humanities straight through before making the decision to become an actor but how completely it's just informed the rest of my life

acting is a very curious profession but there are an awful lot of people on the commission who are not humanists but who were when they went to school. >> it's a point i make to parents which is i can rattle off a list of people who were english majors you didn't know were english majors. mitt romney, hank paulson. the world is full of people whose original training is not what they would go into later on. >> brown: we'll continue that discussion online but for now richard brodhead and john lithgow, thanks very much. >> great to be here. >> brown: and you can weigh in. has humanities education been useful in your life? tell us on our newshour facebook page. >> suarez: at the capitol's emancipation hall today, a statue was unveiled of the freed slave, abolitionist and human rights advocate frederick douglass.

we present now some excerpts of the ceremony in his honor. >> abolitionist, orator, author, statesman, defender of women's rights, champion of human and civil rights for all, douglas to him, freedom and equality were tangible he carried them in his heart until it ceased to beat. in his words, and i quote, "in a composite nation such as ours, as in law, there should be no rich, no poor, no high, no low. no black, no white, no black, but common country, common citizenship, equal rights and a common destiny." >> mr. douglas did not mince his words. but spoke with fearless militancy in the voice of a local d.c. citizen at the height of his international celebrity.

today, perhaps his most famous words "agitate, agitate, agitate" inspire the districts determination to become the 51st state. >> at a time when it was illegal in some jurisdictions to even teach a slave to read, he found a way not only to become literate but to escape slavery and once again to achieve great things. >> i hold so closely to my heart the spirit of the man i am lucky enough to call my great great grandfather. and though i cling tightly he is not mine alone. frederick douglas gave his spirit as a birthright to all of us. on behalf of his family i would like to say that we are humbled by the honor of this handsome bronze statue in this glorious hall.

at the same time we pray that the spirit of frederick douglas will live intensely in your hearts and in the hearts of people everywhere. thank you. ( applause ) >> suarez: those were excerpts from today's ceremony to unveil the statue of frederick douglass at the capitol's emancipation hall. >> brown: again, the major developments of the day: afghan president karzai backed away from peace talks with the taliban, but president obama said he'd anticipated some friction in beginning a peace process. the president also called for the u.s. and russia to reduce stockpiles of long-range nuclear weapons by a third. the russians showed little interest. and federal reserve chairman ben bernanke said the fed may scale back stimulus efforts this year as unemployment improves. that triggered a stock sell-off, with the dow jones industrials falling 200 points. >> suarez: online, a harrowing journey from africa to israel. hari sreenivasan has more.

>> sreenivasan: tens of thousands of eritrean refugees flee their homeland each year. many end up in israel, where they're confronted with a different kind of challenge. read p.j. tobia's in-depth story reported from israel with photos and video on our homepage. and on making sense, the man who predicted the crash of 2008 thinks energy and heavy manufacturing have the potential to fuel an economic boom. read his essay on the rundown. all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org. ray? >> suarez: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. on thursday, we'll look at the latest round of decisions from the supreme court. i'm ray suarez. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. thanks for joining us. good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪

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and major corporations. what can we do for you? >> and now "bbc world news." >> this is bbc world news america reporting from washington. standing at the brandenburg gate of berlin, barack obama calls for a major reduction in u.s. and russian nuclear stockpiles. >> i have asked to move beyond cold war nuclear pashtun. >> nobody said it would be easy. the president of afghanistan takes aim at the u.s. after direct talks with the taliban. the chinese economy opened up a world of opportunities. a world of brand new shoppers. >> farmers are leaving these