>> rose: welcome to the program. the british open begins today, tonight we revisit a conversation i had with genetic nicklaus in april at his home in north palm beach florida, that discussion took place on the eve of the masters which he had won, he also won the british open and today jack nicklaus has more majors, 18, than any other golf whore has ever played the game. >> the atmosphere, that the gallery, it is all -- it all builds up and you just have to understand and enjoy it. i used to -- charlie times many times i would come down at the end of the tournament and i would maybe a shot ahead or even or something, i guess and i would just stop, and i would go, take a couple of big breaths and look around and i would see the people and i would say, man, is this not fun? is this why i am

here? and it would energize me to finish the tournament. i mean, to me that is why i was there. i mean, to me, the finish at noon on sunday and finished 30th is something i have no desire to do. >> right. >> but to come down to the stretch of a golf tournament and have a chance to win that golf tournament and be there, enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the competition with your fellow competitors, that is why we play the silly game, that's why we love it. >> rose: an encore presentation, jack nicklaus for the hour. next. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following.

captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. jack nicklaus is widely regarded as the greatest golfer to ever play the game, he won a record 18 majors, he burst on to the scene in the 1950s with a mix of power and finesse that would revolutionize golf, the great bobby jones famously remarked that nicklaus plays a game of which i am not familiar. nobody has been a masters

champion more than nicklaus, in 1986 at age 46 he won his sixth green jacket, making him the oldest player to ever win a major, this year, marks the 50th anniversary of his first win at the augusta national, last week i visited him at his home in north palm beach, florida. >> anything that you want in life you didn't get? >> >> if it is, i don't know what it is. these are the things that testify to the material things. >> these are toys. >> rose: but inside is a place where your wife, barbara, this is a remarkable marriage you have had. >> a great time, we live in the same house now. >> rose: it was when you were a sophomore in college. >> i went, and met barbara in a class. >> rose: and after that? >> then we dated and got married, and we got married, engaged over 19, married when we were 20, we had our first child after she got out of college when she was 21, and jackie is

now 51 years old. the week of the honeymoon did you play golf? >> well, those stories -- >> barbara had such a great honeymoon we got married on saturday, we drove sunday to hershey, pennsylvania. >> rose: right. >> and we played -- she got to see hershey country club on monday morning, which was in columbus, so we went there and went to new york and we went down to the, and pesky, hey, mickey, you have room? >> so it was pouring down rain, there were three people on the golf course that day, me, barbara and my caddy. >> honestly. >> rose: and you wanted to play. >> and i played, and so after a couple of days, we were in two weeks in astor, no longer there, we saw camelot, and we, you know, went to dinner, and the

things honeymooners do. >> and she said let's go some place else. >> where did you want to go? >> i have never been to atlantic city. >> and we were right by the golf course. and she saw it from the outside, and david took her around the property, and peeked over a few gates where she could watch me play, at pecan valley, and finally the next day, she said, she was -- now we have seen the boardwalk, she said let's go home, so we went home and that was our honeymoon. >> rose: we begin by looking back 53 years ago in the 1960 u.s. open. >> you might have won the u.s. open. >> uh-huh. >> rose: but you didn't. >> incidentally that was the best thing that ever happened to me. >> rose: why? >> not winning. >> rose: why? >> well, i learned so many lessons, i got to play with hogan, i saw how to finish a tournament, i learned from the mistakes i made, if i had won

that tournament i would never have found all the mistakes i made which i never really repeated in my career. >> rose: like what kind of mistakes? >> oh, like i had a, one shot lead but i had been leading after nine holes, nine holes to play, at the end of 12 holes, six holes to play i had a one shot lead, i looked at the leader board, started worrying about hogan, palmer, crow, cherry, sue jack, those are the ones, and i was five under and i got nervous over the next hole and i had a little -- i had a 12-foot putt for birdie and i had a ball mark in my way and write have the presence of mind to know that i could fix a ball mark, i know it wasn't mine but you are not thinking clearly, so i three putted that and three putted and 16 i missed eight footer at 17 and bogeyed 18 to lose that tournament, you know, arnold won the tournament that's fine. >> hogan, he self-destructed on 17 and 18, but, you know, all

those things, if i had won that tournament i would have gone, oh boy i am good and wouldn't have learned the lesson and wouldn't have learned how to do different things and it really was one of the greatest things that happened in my career, a great experience playing with hogan. >> rose: why? >> oh, he was unbelievable ball-striker. he hit to the previous 18 greens in regulation, he hit the second hole, every green in the second round, in the first 34 holes i played with him the last day, he hit every green in regulation, 52 greens in inflation. he was a machine. and i mean, he couldn't have been nice tore play with, he was just -- he played just like i did. you know, he gave me a few nice things to say and didn't really talk a lot and he talked a little bit, whe when it got to e his time to playful to it was all business, sort of what i was. i was always business when it was my turn to play and what i was trying to do but i tried to be pleasant inbetween. hogan was pleasant inbetween and

it was, he was the kind of guy i enjoyed playing with. >> rose: as good a ball-striker as anybody in golf? >> i would say one of the best and trevino. >> rose: pure ball-strikers. >> uh-huh. >> rose: so in 63, you go to the masters. >> go to the masters. >> rose: and people are asking the question, can he validate what he did at the u.s. open? >> uh-huh. >> rose: this guy? how did you approach it? >> i played masters in 59, 60, 61, 62, i felt i was really in a position to play well in 62, because i came very close in 60, 61 as an amateur, and 62, i didn't play very well, i finished 14th and i said, that is not very good tournament for me. and so, you know, going into 63, actually, 1963 i didn't know what was going to happen because i hurt my hip earlier in the year, and i was in san francisco and i hit a second shot into the

green in the pro-am at lucky international, which was harding park and i couldn't hardly walk by the time i got to the green, and i went and played the next day and missed the cut. i could hardly walk, i went down to see dr. wagger, a 49er doctor and he injected my hip, and he said, come on back, i want you to come back on monday morning, i want to do another injection before you go, i came back and he gave me another injection on monday morning, i went to palm springs and won the tournament but i couldn't play left or right and i had to play around it and i proceeded to have 25 injections in my hip during the next month, ten weeks. and zoo finally, my hip got all right but during that period of time i couldn't swing into it, i learned how to play right to left, because i could play around my hip. and so i went to augusta knowing that i never played right-left before but i could play

right-left if i had to because i did all spring, i went there with confidence and i felt like i would play and shot 74 the first round, not a very good round but i came back with 66, in the second round, put me in great position, good position to be right in what was going on, and, you know, i ended up finishing it out. >> rose: but i am told that augusta favors a hook right to left. >> yes if you are right handed. >> rose: all of a sudden that's what you had. >> all of a sudden that's what i had and i never played -- augusta was always not that difficult a course for me but there was always half a dozen shots that really needed to be played left to, right to left and i couldn't play them because i didn't have confidence and playing all spring gave me the confidence. >> rose: do you remember putting on the green jacket? >> i do, sort of. i think -- >> rose: because arnie was giving it to you. >> you will enjoy this story. i went in, and they didn't have -- they grabbed a coat out, a 46 long and i am a 43 regular.

so the sleeves are down to here and the coat is down to my knees and so after i won the tournament, and it was supposedly my jacket, i came back the next year and they said, well, you know, we don't have a jacket, so they gave me tom dewey, ex-governor of new york's jacket, for the next ten years i wore tom dewey's jacket and never got my own jacket, never gave me a jacket. i mean, i won six masters and never got a green jacket. finally in 1998, i am sitting down with jack stevens, and we are talking about the tournament, honoring me at the tournament with the drinking fountain they put at the 17th tee, and i said, he said, well, i told him the story about the jacket, he says you mean we have never given you a green jacket? >> i said no. >> six masters. >> i thought i was going to get one but i never have gotten one so i went home, after practicing i went home and came back and there was a note this my locker, you will go to the pro shop and

get your green jacket. so in 1998 i got my first green jacket. >> rose: now where was bobby jones? >> well, when i first met jones was in 1955, he was speaking at the -- my issues u.s. amateur i was 15 years old in richmond, virginia and he then had two canes that he walked with, he really didn't walk very far, by the time i got to the masters in mean pivot nine, he was in a wheelchair, and i really enjoyed his company. there was a note in my locker when i got there, and he says, he was inviting my father and me down to his cabin to talk. i thought that was very, very nice and he did it every year. there is a little note every year. >> rose: he put mitt your locker. >> he put it in my locker and i thought that was very nice. >> rose: but there was a time he came to watch you play. >> >> rose: much earlier? >> and that was the first u.s. amateur, spoke at the banquet

and saw me hit a couple of shots on the golf course that day, and he came to me after the banquet and says young man, i want to watch you play tomorrow so i was playing bob gardner who was a very good player from california and new york, and bob, had bob one down after ten holes, and all of a sudden here comes this cart down the fairway, i had been looking for it all day, and, oh, absolutely, and as i got to 11 i went bogey, bogey, double bogey and lost all three holes to gardner, my dad, or bob jones turned to my dad and said, charlie, i don't think i am doing jack any good, i am out of here. so anyway, that was my first meeting. >> rose: but he was who he wanted you to be. >> he was terrific. i loved -- h he was my dad's heo growing up. my dad watched, my dad was hike 12 years old but watched jones at the opened in 1926. he came back to ryder cup in 1931 and my dad then was 18

years old, i guess, and had the ryder cup and my dad was walking and my dad looked a lot like jones he parted his hair close to the middle and that kind of stuff, and he said, hey, mr. jones, we will take you into the clubhouse, well my dad didn't know what he was talk about, he was escorted in the clubhouse, 18-year-old kid and they thought he was bob jones. >> so 1963, didn't win in 1964, i won in 1965, and that year, i had broken the record and shot 641 round and 271, broke hogan's record by three shots, and he said, he said, then, mr. nicklaus you play a gym of which i am not familiar. meaning obviously a game that he had not seen the likes of, which was very, very flattering saying that, you know, here i played better than anybody he had ever seen play. >> rose: what you added to the game at that time was power. >> i added power. i definite -- i never liked being a power player.

i always had power available. i love short golf courses. i love shot making course, i love to cut the ball and i love to play the shots. but i had the power and i had it available, and when i wanted to use it, you know, i had it and that was a tremendous advantage. and particularly at augusta, there were several holes you went ahead and did it and took advantage of it. >> rose: you played with power as well as finesse and that's the job because today everybody plays with power. >> the game when i was playing was about ten to 20 percent power and 80 percent shot making, today the game is about 80 percent power an about 20 percent shot making. >> rose: this is what you said, i added power, i was the first player to play with real power and i was successful and was able to play with at this mess today. today they all play with power so i took the game at that time in a different direction. >> i did. i was probably the first, as he say, power hitter who was successful. i mean, certainly whoever guys

hit the long before me, but i guess my ability to hit the ball with control and hit it long was what people hadn't seen. >> arnold famously said the big guy is out of the came, we better start running. a. that was the open in 1962,ndd after that he said, the big guy is out of the cage, you better watch out. and so arnold, arnold has been terrific to me, i like arnold an awful lot. he never treated me as a younger guy and just an upstart. he always treated me as an equal, and i always appreciated that and i have always -- i have always enjoyed his company. >> rose: and in fact you shared an agent. >> mark mccormick. >> rose: mark mccormick. the masters, it is said, asks every question of your game.

it tests every part of a golf game. >> well, that is the idea of what a championship golf is all about, to be able to use every club in your bag and be able to fight and take command of all of the conditions that you might play. you might play with wind or firm greens or difficult short game, the masters is the first of the ones that actually says, hey, i have got a test for you, see if you handle it. >> you don't play your opponent, you play the course. >> i always lay the course and me. actually. >> rose: you play yourself. >> i am my opponent, the only person i am in control of is me and i can't control anybody else and what they are doing, and so it is the golf course and me and what can i do on that golf course? that's what i always did, and to me, you had to learn -- i have got a lot of young kids that come to me today and they ask me how i played and what i did, i said the most important thing you can do is

learn who you are and what your abilities are, what your shortcomings are and what your long suit is, if you can take advantage of your long suit and minimize your shortcomings, you know, you can be a really good player. as long as you play smart and play within yourself you will be a good player. >> rose: you always said you love the precision of the game more than the power of the game. >> yes, i did. i always, have i love precision, to me it is always more pun to play a really interesting little cut shot into a green or a little high, soft draw or a little bump and run or something. those were pun shots. >> rose: you see the club as an extension of your hands?. i see the club what i am playing golf with, the golf club and i like to feel and try to figure out how do i do -- i visual lies what i can do, and i female what my swing is, and if i can have the golf club in my hands in a way that i feel like i can perform the shot i want to perform, that's what i try to do. obviously it takes practice to

do that and you learn how to do it, and you learn where your hands need to be and where the club needs to be and how you can put it in, but to me that was the fun of the game. the fun of the game was being able to outsmart theful to cart, outsmart yourself and play within yourself and make sure the golf club is doing what you want it to do, to control the golf ball. >> so if you needed more power you had it. >> playing within yourself meaning you shouldn't do something uh you should don't if you went to the 15th hole in augusta and standing back 250 yards and you are saying, well, you know, i am in good position in the tournament here, but, yo, you know, i think i cat home, what are my chances of getting home? five out of ten? not very good odds. i said, i don't like that, now if i hit it down 20 yards further and sitting with a two or three iron in my hand, then i am saying, mmm, 19 times out of 20 i will put the ball on the green or right around and have control, those are theed zero, i don't want 50-50, i want the 19 out of 20, and i am going to try

to make sure that 20th doesn't happen an that is playing within yourself. >> rose: and it is also playing smart. most people believe that you hit a one iron better than anybody had ever hit a one iron. >> and i love the one iron. i just love it, because of all of the things i could do with it, and when people say why didn't you carry a four wood instead of a one ierp, four wood is in the air and too much in the elements, a one iron, i could always control the elements by keeping it down or hooking it, and i go back and look at maybe my three favorite shots that i ever hit, are one iron shots, 67, u.s. open, pebble beach in 72 or the masters in 75, and 15, all one iron shots and, oh, was that fun. i love, when i hit a good shoti really loved it, it got me charged up and excited.

that was fun. >> rose: but what was it about you andful to that everybody said, we are going to a new era? >> well, that would be pretty difficult for me to answer. i was a 23-year-old kid, and in mean 63, and, you know, my whole goal was to go out and play the game i knew how to play, play it to the best of my ability, and try on the best at it that i could be. obviously, the u.s. open fell to me in the 1962, a masters in 1963, and i always -- i always tried to climb a mountain, i always felt like, you know, here i am, there is a lot of other guys out there that are awfully good, but all of a sudden, i thought i must be better than i think i am, gee, let's just keep playing an let's just keep trying to get better and that's what i did most of my career, so i never really thought about that i was chaining something. >> rose: this is from johnny miller who said, the difference

between jack and me is when i get to the top of the mountain i stopped, advantage would simply say, where is the next higher mountain to climb? you were constantly thinking what is next? >> i did that all my career. i always wanted to get better and obviously there was a certain point in my career but it wasn't until i was in my 40s sometimes that i felt like, you know, i don't think i am going to climb any higher mountains but i had a long run and i was very -- i had a lot of fun doing that. >> rose: 18 majors came in second, 19 times. >> that is bad, i got beat too many times. >> rose: why do you think that was? >> well i think it is because of the way i played. i don't think that i played conservatively, although some people might have said that. i think i played to try to play, do the best i could do, prepare myself the best i could and do the best i could within myself. and i always felt like, you know, you have got 100 other guys or more playing against

you, and there are going to be weeks where you play your best and somebody just plays better and so i just accepted that. even though obviously i didn't like losing. but i didn't try to -- i never tried to -- i couldn't be in a position to shoot myself out of the tournament. i always felt, i look at tiger coming along now, and i see tiger coming down the stretch and through most of his first ten wins or so, and, you know, tiger didn't have to do anything, he knew that all he had to do was play within himself and everybody else was going to self-destruct and that's what i felt most of the time and occasionally, you know, there were some guys like nate palmer and player and trevino and watson who didn't self-destruct, and, you know, and they played well and all of a sudden i got beat a few times, but there is only, oh, a couple of them that i look back on and

say, you know, i behave that tournament away, obviously, u.s. open in mean 60, and the british open in 1963, i bogeyed the last two holes by doing really silly things, and i don't think i ever gave anymore away. i was always -- i may have gotten peat but i always made pretty well. and maybe a little bit at 71, a play-off with trevino i didn't get out of a bunker the second, third hole, i got behind in the play-off. but generally, generally i was looking to just play the best i could with it, within myself, and if somebody -- and generally won. >> you have no great regrets. >> i don't have any regrets, i had a great career. >> rose: and how important was the balance in your life if you had barbara and you had family and you had a place that gave you a center? >> well, that to me was the most important thing. i mean, pofl was never the most important thing in my life, i

mean, my amendment has always been number one and golf is had you been 2, and whatever -- and i think it was so important to me that, you know, i have five kids, i have 22 brand kids, and, you know, when you look back at it you look back and say my kids all knew me, they all understood what i did and they were a part of what i did, and today we still talk about football games that i went to or basketball games that i went to and i made an effort to do things, and the kids, you know, i don't bring it up, they bring it up because they loved it, and i just feel really sad for a lot of people who they are so focused on one thing that they didn't live the best par part of life -- >> rose: so no great repretty you didn't win a gram grand slam? >> i have repretty i didn't win it but i just didn't do it. >> rose: what rounds do you remember the most versus you

versus, you versus someone else was it watson? >> i don't know. i never really thought about -- >> rose:. >> well, that probably is, probably the one round, one tournament that i probably -- i would probably remember more of the shots than any of the other ones, that i lost. and in that last round, i can probably remember three or four shots. tournaments i won i can probably remember most of them. but the ones i lose i usually get them out of my mind and forget about them. that was a good one, tom played great and so did i, i made one mistake, missed a 15 footer and that cost me a tournament, but it is the way it goes. >> rose: trevino once said about you that you played badly better than might be else, that you can play badly, for you, and still shoot a 68. >> well, that is the secret to playing golf is to learn how to play -- how to score while playing badly and i played, i mean i played poorly many, inn't

times and i walked off the golf course and shot a 67, 68 on my scorecard but i managed my game, what we were talking about earlier is understanding who i was an what i could do and playing within myself and fine, but one thing i always did on the golf course, charlie, i always try tried to correct myself, if i was not playing well, i didn't care if it was the last round of the u.s. open and i didn't like what i was doing i would make a change right in the middle of the round. now i would play conservatively for a shot or two while i was working on it, but i knew that the way i was playing i wasn't going to win, so i needed to change. and i needed to do it right then. so i did it. and a lot of the tournaments i won. >> rose: if you had trouble with your game, you would go back to jack grout ten and say -- >> one thing jack brought ten did for me which, which i respected and love jack grouten like another father but he taught me how to take care of myself and teach myself. >> jack grout went to many golf

tournaments and not one time did jack ever step on the practice tee at a tournament. jack, back in the bleachers or in the stands or standing by the ropes, and, you know, i mean, i went to jack maybe, when i was playing, in the middle of my career maybe two or three times a year, we would spend an hour, and talk about things other than golf but always finished up to say, jack, i think you need to take your left hand and do a little bit this, and your head is a little out of position, you need to work on this. but that was all he would say, you know, because he knew that he had taught me how to play golf, and he wanted me to correct myself, so when i not in the heat of battle i could do so. and that was the greatest asset he gave me. >> rose: and you did that the middle of a tough match? >> absolutely. >> rose: if you knew what was wrong? >> i figured it out and i would change it, if i got a tough shot then i would play away from that shot and correcting it. and then, you know, like when you are playing a round of golf, about half a dozen shots you

know can really bury you in a round if you had one of those shots come up you would try to avoid being too aggressive with that shot. but then you got the next hole, let's say you are playing augusta and you are making a mistake and you get to the eighth hole, there is hot much trouble on the eighth hole so you would filled well that a little bit and try to make those corrections, and, but i .. i was 11, 12, 13, uh-huh, i would play them conservatively so if i wasn't happy i wasn't going to kill myself and put mist out of the tournament, and that is understanding yourself and understanding what you do. >> rose: what was said about you, jack knows he can beat you, you know he can beat you, and he knows you know he can beat you. was intimidation a factor? >> i never used it. i am sure there was. i never tried to, to flaunt it. i didn't think that was a proper thing to do. tom wise cough was a terrific

player .. one of the great strikers of the golf ball and had a great short game, he was a smart player, but he, when he got with me, he did exactly what you said. i knew i could probably beat tom if i kept my head and tom beat me on a few occasions and he beat me because he played better. but, you know, i think there are a lot of occasions wise cough had it in his head i would probably win and it hurt him. >> rose: what is amazing, sitting here and talking to the ratest golfer that ever played the game, if something goes wrong it is the fundamentals that have gone wrong. >> absolutely. >> rose: your hands on the club. >> absolutely. >> rose: it is you are not standing as straight as you normally are. >> absolutely. >> your posture, your balance on your feet, or you are getting out of sequence in your golf swing, one of my sequences, i used to get my hips started first and when i got my hips started first then my hands got

going and i left the club so that got me into a position that was not in sequence and i would have to go back and work my hips to make sure i got the club started and started everything together, i mean, i could see those things, i can feel it, and i would make that correction and i think that is really important. >> rose: you have 17 majors, you were 46 years old. did you believe you had it in you to win another major? >> well, i believed i had it in me, charlie but i just knew i would never get it out of me. (laughter.) >> i remember after i won the open in 1980, i sort of lost a little bit of interest. my kids were starting to get to the age i was watching high school sports and, you know, their activities were far more important than my activities playing golf. i still like to play pofl but i was playing 12, 14 tournament as year, not playing very much,

certainly wasn't looking forward to just being a senior golfer, that wasn't my goal, by any means. so i don't know why i was playing, i was going through the motions, and, you know, when i started to prepare for the masters i would always start thinking about the masters in january, and i would start playing the golf courses and play tournaments that would prepare me best for augusta so when i got to augusta i was ready to play, mean 86, i thought about it in january but i didn't really start preparing for it until about the middle of march. >> rose: yes. >> so, you know, i wasn't really into it as much as i was then, but that particular year i got a new putter, played with mcgreg deport at the time, and i had this big long putter, he felt that the moment of inertia and the twist factors were all very good on this putter. maybe i am maiming things i shouldn't name but he said,

jack, and i want you to try to this putter. i remember the first tournament, ft. lauderdale and it was a windy day and i had a putt this long on, and the wind blew the putter into the ball and hit it that far, and six-inch putt and i am thinking wow, i tried -- and i finally, i got to augusta, i actually started putting really well and i wasn't hitting the ball well but in augusta i started to play well and i couldn't hit the putt very well. >> one thing well and the next thing leaves you about the third round i started making some putts and the fourth round, i not only hit the ball well, but i rolled the table with -- >> rose: when you started sunday morning at what in. >> i think i was four shots back, about eight players. >> rose: eight players ahead of you, and four shots back. >> uh-huh. >> rose: and at the end of the front nine? >> i hadn't moved a lot.

>> rose: hadn't moved a lot. >> i shot one under, i loved the story because it got me going. i was standing, i hit it about 12 feet, maybe 14 feet and just that much off the fridge, to the right, and i was getting ready to hit my putt and a big roar went up at the eighth green an it was by someone who made a wedge for an eagle, and i walked around, and waited for them to calm down and i got to the ball, and tom kite, with another wedge for an eagle. and it sort of relaxed me because i had been very tense. i couldn't get relaxed. an i turn to the crowd and i said, okay let's make some noise over here. let's make some noise here and i knock it in the hole and it relaxed me, about a 25-footer, ten, about the same length putt, and all of a sudden i moved myself into contention. >> rose: and then you are at 15 where you'sed it. >> we. i bogeyed 12, which was kind of

a problem, actually the best thing that happened to me, because it makes you nervous and kicked me in the rear enand get going and pared 14, 15 i had a really nice drive and i had -- i had, i think i had about 214 to the hole and i said to my son jack. >> rose: who was on the bag. >> my son jack was on the bag, and i said, how par do you think a three will go here, and i don't mean club. >> and he said, dad, it will go a long way, it was a four iron shot and i hit the four iron shot and made the putt so -- >> rose: all of a sudden i got myself back into con deposition and the next hole i hit a five iron, 175 yards and i couldn't see the bottom of the flag and i hit the shot and i just loved it, i knew it was perfect, and jackie said, be right, and i reached down -- i said it is and i mean it was the cockiest remark i ever made in playing golf and the ball almost went in the hole, stopped like that and

i meant a two. and as i walked over to 17 tee i knew i was back in contention but surf yes, sir was right there and all of a sudden that horrible sound when you know some people likes something and somebody doesn't like something and i knew he hit it in the water because there were cheers for me which i hate that sound, i hate to cheer for bad shots. and then there was the grown from the players, the people that were obviously following him, but i knew at that point that i was right there. >> rose:. >> did you believe it? >> well, i was too confident in the moment of, i was too caught in the moment of playing and i hit on the left side of the fairway, further left than i needed to hit it but i wanted to get the right placement to the pin placement. >> rose: what was your, what did you feel at 18. >> i bogeyed 17 and to 18 it was wild, there was an enormous reception, which was just

wonderful. and i remember hitting my second shot, and i was still walking up and i had teared in my, tears in my eyes and i said jack don't do this, i always get very emotional, and i said don't do this. you have a lot to do yet. you know, you have got a lot putt. >> and had about a 35, 40-foot putt, and i moo uh that i had to get a two or i wouldn't have a chance, i hit it up like that and -- but i didn't know what was going to the happen on the golf course behind me, and kite was the first one to come in and kite had a really good chance at 18 for a birdie, and he missed it and all of a sudden, four, five, birdies in a row and gets in contention and placed, played the last hole poorly, but the excitement at 46 of winning another major championship. >> rose: and your son on the bag. >> my son on the bag. my mother and my sister who had not been to augusta since mean

59. >> rose: yes. >> and my son steve was at hats burgh working for johnn' montgomery at the time, in a golf tournament and he called in the morning and said what do you think, pops? i said i think sick six, is good, 65 is win. >> the exact had you been i have in mind go shoot it. >> so everybody was sort of tuned in what was going on and it was kind of neat. >> so that's a victory, is it the biggest victory you ever had for you in your life? >> probably i think they are all great. i can't really pick one over the other but if you have to say what happened in 1986, i didn't think i could win, nobody else thought i could win, you know, players were, weren't afraid of me anymore, it was just nice. >> you didn't play all the tournaments you could have played, at one point you tended to focus just on the majors. >> i did that all my life. i always played what i thought i needed to play to prepare myself to be properly prepared for the majors from a golf tournament

standpoint, competition standpoint, and i always wanted to build myself up to a tournament, get as high as i could for that tournament and i always wanted to let myself drop, and then i always wanted to be down so i could always build myself back up for the next tournament and let myself drop again, and that's the way i played. >> rose: but what does that mean build yourself back up? meaning -- >> meaning, when the tournament is over, i want to get away from it. >> rose: i gotcha. >> and i let my -- all of the edge and all of the good things i am doing. >> rose: all of the confidence and -- >> gay g. >> go away. >> i had to put my golf clubs for a week or so and i got back to it and i knew i would be rusty, and now i have got to get back in shape again so i have to build myself back up and i always wanted to be just as sharp and anxious and ready at the end of the year as i was at the beginning of the year and if i kept myself up i would get burned out and i didn't want to do that, so to me, it was

playing the number -- occasionally i added another tournament and occasionally i took a tournament out, but most of the time, you know, i played 12, 16 tournament as year. >> right on the eve of the masters, legend is young players come to you and say, what do i need to know? and you offer advice. a. i have had a lot of youngbuy- >> rose: what is it you impart to them? >> oh, i don't know. you know, -- >> rose: through the course -- >> i mean, one of the pros that is playing the first time in the masters here about two days ago, and -- >> rose: called you up? >> yes. wanted to chat and i don't need to mention who it is. >> rose: what did you tell him? >> i rust said, okay and he went up and played last week, first time he ever had been there. and so he is getting ready to go play in the tournament so i went there 2 golf course, i said, okay, now, there are about five or six shots in this golf course which we talked about earlier that he really got to watch out for. and i said, tee shot at two, you

have to watch out for that, you have got to watch out for the second shot at 11 and watch out for the tee shot at 12 and watch out for the tee shot of 13, you have to make sure you have got the right thing happening on your second shot on 15, 16, is not all that bad, you don't have to worry too much about the water there, it can be the issues but those are the only shots you worry about augusta, if you get those and keep them there control, make sure you play them relatively conservatively, and not try to win theful to tournament on those shots, because you either win the golf tournament or lose the golf tournament on that shot. the rest of the tournament ask not that difficult. and so that is pa basically what i tell most of the guys i talk to them and bet them to understand themselves. >> rose: understand your game, play within yourself and hose kind of things. >> those kind of things, and also you are going up to, you are going to drive down magnolia lane, the atmosphere, the fall i are, it is all -- it all builds

up and you are just have to understand, enjoy it, have fun, i used to -- charlie many times i would come down at the end of a tournament and i would be maybe a shot ahead or two or even or something like this and i would just stop, and i would go, take a couple of big breaths and look around and i would see the people and i would say, man, is this not fun? is this why i am here? and it would emergency apologize me to go finish the tournament. i mean, to me that is why i was there. i mean, to me, the finish at noon on sunday and finish 30th is something i have no desire to do. >> >> rose: right. >> but to come down the stretch of a golf tournament and have a chance to win that golf tournament and be there, enjoy and have fun with those people and yourself and the petition, with your fellow competitor, that is "we play the silly game. that's why we love it. >> rose: how painful was it to realize you couldn't play at the

level you wanted to play? >> well jean at a certain time in life that is going to happen, and personally, i had a balanced life. >> rose: exactly. >> and if i hadn't had a balanced life it would have been tough for me it didn't bother me, when i knew i lost my vehicle to my competition, competition is what i loved, but it just happened to be a vehicle to it, so if -- and i still love playing golf, obviously, but, you know, when i saw my skills eroding and i knew that, you know, i have got five kids, i have got five grandkids, i have got 22 great brand kids, i have the ability to go -- i mean, barbara, you were coming i missed a middle school volleyball game and travel teams, but they were of that age. >> rose: you got joy out of that? >> i love doing it, i get joy out of it, absolutely i get joy out of it, i love watching my grandkids play. >> rose: i think someone at woods how much credit did

barbara deserve for the 18 majors and you said maybe 15 of them? >> that would be a good number. i want to give myself some credit. barbara was fantastic. i mean, the beauty about barbara is that barbara knew what she was taking on, she didn't know exactly, she didn't know i was going to be a professional golfer but she knew i was an athlete, and when we got married, and when i started playing golf, she automatically, smart as she is, smart as a whip she knew that her life had to be second to mine otherwise i could never be successful, so she never badgered me about wanting to do this or do that, do this. we took our time off, sure, but why don't we go do, this that was fine, but never while i was playing, never, always let me do what i had to do. she raised the kids. she always made sure she would get on an airplane, if the kids get out of school on friday and traveled to california with three kids, a couple of them in diapers and she would get off the airplane to watch saturday

and sunday and fly back with me. i mean, you know, i mean how many women do that is she was fantastic. >> rose: arnold palmer. >> arnold palmer was, you know, a great competitor, i mean, arnold came along at a time when we needed somebody in the game to take ahold and he grabbed the imagination of the public, television was coming along, arnold is out there and in i was up his pants and goes and winds wins the masters and u.s. open, after winning the masters in mean 58 and, you know, arnold played a lot like they did. they, he had his shirt out and cigarette hanging out of his mouth and he drove u off in the trees and placed this slicer out in the trees, you know, arnold was, i mean, i was a big arnold palmer fan too, i mean arnold is ten years older than me so i watched arnold play a lot of golf. >> you love watching the bay do those things, and then i got a chance to play with him, and i was 18-year-old, 18 years old

the first time i played with arnold, but arnold was just -- he was a great for the game. arnold's career as a major championship golfer, didn't last a long time. >> 58 to 64. >> yes. >> didn't last a long time but he was very, very good at that point in time. he was -- arnold really put be -- really putted well, and arnold is, the type of putter he was was the kind of putter that probably wasn't going to last, because arnold was a guy who did hot fear a four-foot putt coming back and so he is ramming that ball at the hole, ramming at the hole, and he is putting and i want to tell you you keep putting these all day long they are going to get to you, and, you know, eventually that is probably, probably, i can't say for sure, i can't answer that question totally but arnold probably got to arnold because he stopped making the four-footers coming back and he stopped getting aggressive going for the first put putt and pretty soon he had to change the

whole way he putted and that wasn't arnold palmer. >> >> rose: every golfer that played after arnold palmer played should give him 25 percent of the game and the rivalry between you two, as short as it was made pofl what it became. >> i agree with some of the comments on that, everybody owes arnold a real debt of gratitude for what he did. i mean, he just happened to be the right guy at the right place. it could have been anybody but it happened to be arnold palmer. >> rose: you two are -- >> >> rose: how would you characterize the friendship? >> very close. >> rose: that's what he says about you. >> very close. i mean, i love arnold like a brother, he is -- we were great competitors, i mean, arnold and i were cash darn i was 22 years old starting on the tour, arnold, of course handled by mccormick, arnold would pick me up in columbus and go play exhibitions all over the country, we did that a lot. and we played the team

championships together, we played ryder cup together, canada cup, world cup together, you know, we played, our wives were great friends, we traveled all over the place, had a great time, and, you know, one of us would beat the other one, we would finish the day and shake hands, we would walk away and say what are you doing for dinner? and that's neat. that is the kind of friendship we had. we had a period where we sort of -- a little bit but that is when he was on the senior tour and i was the regular tour and we had ten years where we didn't play a lot together but then i got to be a senior and we got to playing a lot together and that friendship got even closer because we were both after the same goals again in playing together. but arnold is -- i am very, very grateful to what arnold did for the game and what he did for me. >> rose: you don't have any regrets about this extraordinary game you played, and as you talk about the players, what is amazing to me, it is what makes

golf so great, there is no perfect way to hit the ball. >> hmm. everybody does it differently. everybody does it differently. >> rose: everybody does it differently. >> exactly. >> designing golf courses is your passion today. >> uh-huh. >> rose: the land sneaks to you. at does it say to you is. >> some land says, uh. some land says, wow. >> rose: wow. >> to me, he i don't know as a designer is to be able to take any piece of ground and if it is an uh peace of ground i have to turn around and make it a wow, that is the creativity that i have got to display and put it on that piece of property. if it is a wow piece of property, then it is my job to use that piece of property and not screw it up and try to figure out how do i work best to put pofl in there so that i don't guess the land up and i also bring the best in golf to it. >> rose: because you really want to take the best of it and not damage it and not do -- let it speak to you and use it so

that -- >> absolutely. >> rose: it takes you -- >> a golf course, a couple of golf courses, virtually zero dirt, and there is aful to course i think they have turned out beautifully, for example, river in member is a, we used 5,000 yards of dirt and the only 5,000 we used was to take a little hill off that was halfway to a green on the par 3, so the golf course itself we didn't move one yard of dirt to design the golf course, we found the golf course. another one, another one pronghorn out in bend, oregon and that was a piece of property that it was just absolutely gorgeous, it was kind of lava rock out croppings and everything else and i think we moved maybe pen thousand yards of dirt and it was all a lake. >> rose: china, you are big in china. >> yes. >> are you building more courses in china than anywhere else i guess. >> yes, china is the up and coming place in the world today for the game of golf, the

chinese have learned that golf is a payment that they can do business, they can have fun, they can -- it is a payment that they can play like we do, a scratch can play with a 25 and still enjoy the day. you know, they are starting to learn that and they like -- they love the american way. they love what we do. and i have been to china for 25 years, and i love going over there to work. >> rose: is it just china or other parts of asia as well that pofl is exploding? >> pofl is exploding a lot in china, vietnam is coming along. >> rose: japan doesn't have the land. >> japan still played a lot of of but they are pretty mature as a golfing nation. korea is building a lot of golf courses. but i think china is the big -- the population base in china. india witness to do it too but india doesn't have -- land use i am guessing about 40 percent of the lan mass with about the same

population and really to find land in india is tough, which brings me to how we design course ms. india. i mean it is kind of interesting, because people come to us with 30 acres, 60 acres, 80 acres want to do a golf course. and i say, well, you know, you need 150 acres for a golf course and i said, say to me that is wrong, what you do is you say okay, you have got 50 acres and what we need to do is design a golf course where you have 50 acres but we need to design a golf ball for the 50 ache displeerz ah. >> so you change the golf ball? >> i would change the golf ball to me you ought to be able to play the game and you ought to be able to play a golf ball that suits any golf -- we have done it backwards forever. we have always done it because of what theful to ball does, to me it should be what the land is, and, the golf ball is cheap, i mean, it is very i can inexpensive to design a golf ball. >> rose: it went from something to something and you can go much further. >> you can make a golf ball,

short, long, anything you want to, very inexpensively, i don't want to change championship golf, championship golf is great but i am talking about people learning and playing and getting involved in the game of golf. >> what do you think of the belly putters? >> you know, i never used one, i always have, i think they are very awkward, of course i never knew how to use one, and so i have been very indifferent on it, but i do support the usj and the ruling bodies of the game of golf. and if they think it is wrong for the game of golf i will support what they do. >> rose: you have got a lot of things to be proud of. family, most importantly. i mean, to think five kids, 22 brand children. thanksgiving around here must be like great. >> it is great. >> rose: barbara said it is a circus but it is great. >> it is a great circus and i don't know what we have this year, 40 something. >> rose: and you have got a job now where you can pursue your passion for golf in a different way. >> i am one of the luckiest

persons in the world. can you challenge playing a game all your life that you love and then being able to go into another profession that relates to the game of golf and how i played it and put it on a piece of ground? i am, thable be here long beyond by golf game and my life. i am pretty lucky. >> rose: you like fly-fishing for bone fish. >> yes, i used to go out and drag bait and go the other stuff, and most of the bigger fish, i haven't caught a lot of big fish, but it is strange -- any fishing is delicate, it is a little like playing a golf course with finesse. >> and precision. >> precision. >> where you put the fly. >> that's right. i am a decent fly-fisher man there are a lot of people a lot better fisherman than me, but i do enjoy it, the fish doesn't know how old i am so when i flow the fly in there, he says is that somebody 25 or 73? put it in the right place he is going

the bite it, that's right. >> rose: thank you for this. thank you for lefting us visit you here at your home in florida. >> charlie, my pleasure. it has been a long time, we have been trying to do this. >> rose: right. >> we have had this for 25 years and finally got here. >> and what a perfect opportunity here we are next week the masters, 50 years ago you won your first masters, six masters championships, remarkable record, 18 majors. mean files wow came in second, it is an extraordinary achievement in a sport that that has added so much to your life and all of us who love the game. >> my pleasure. i appreciate it.

>> rose: funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. you are watching

the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ calories, calories, calories! >> wow, it rocked my world! >> it just kind of reminded me of boot camp. >> i don't know what you had, but this is great! >> it almost felt like sort of country club food to me. >> don't touch it. it's hot! >> i gotta tell you, yo