captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- this looks like this fellow cause nerves are being destroyed, potentially by something like sarah and. >> this would be an outrageous escalation of chemical weapons used if the facts are found to be true. >> in egypt, mubarak is released from prison. >> it would cancel everything we have been through, all the killing, all the bloodshed. it is devastating. >> spying on americans. the nsa says that was a mistake.

>> these are tools that are enemies,to be used on not on americans. >> radley manning. the escalating war on obamacare. >> under no circumstances will i for a continuing resolution that authorizes even one penny to this. >> and the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. >> you look at how far we have come, but we still have so far to go. >> opposition forces claim the syrian government is killing large numbers of civilians, men, women and children with chemical weapons. russia says the rebels stage the attacks to drum up

opposition to the asad regime. the asad regime says the claim is baseless. here is what president obama said a year ago. nowe have communicated in uncertain terms what every player in the region -- with every player in the region that that is a line -- red line for us. >> senator john mccain says the red line threat is a joke. >> the president of the united states says it would be a red line and a game changer. he now sees that as a green light. means the word of the president of the united states can no longer be taken seriously. >> president obama said he is sympathetic to mccain's passion, but he adds, sometimes what we have seen is that folks will

call for immediate action, jumping into stuff, and it doesn't turn out well. the president says we have to think through strategically what will be in will be in our long- term international interest even while we do everything we can to put pressure on those who would kill innocent civilians. let me ask you this. when the president says the use of chemical weapons is a red line, what does that mean? >> it means nothing because the government already said on the thater attacks months ago the red line had been crossed. obama's response is is to release a statement to the deputy spokesman for the state department that we would send small arms to the rebels, which of course meant nothing since they were already getting them from the saudi's and the gulf arabs. it does not mean a thing. the larger question, i think, is

, aside from our credibility, is it in our strategic interest to intervene? and that is a difficult situation considering the jihad ease seem to be the dominant -- seem to be the dominant group among the rebels. >> i think we have learned that intervention seems to be fraught with tragedy. i think before any collective action is inaugurated, we need a full debate on this. the congress would be far better people toe american come back and debate this. the president made a statement, which he obviously did not want to back up with american action at the time, but i do think it requires a national debate, a full national debate.

we have rushed into wars before, much to our regret. >> i think the best possible news the u.s. government got was this morning, that the russian foreign ministry called upon the serious government to allow inspectors to come in. government to allow inspectors come in. i think that is what the president is looking for is some consensus around the world. >> we need a consensus around the congress and the people. but the u.n., waiting for the u.n., imagine if we had done that in a rack. we would have known -- in iraq. we would have known there were weapons of mass destruction and avoided a tragedy. my heart is with john mccain, but my head is with the president. we don't have anybody to align

ourselves with in syria. there is no good actor. >> after 12 years on the job, fbi director robert mueller is stepping down. now he warns that americans are joining radicals. >> it has become a rallying point, and that is a tragedy. for the first year or so of the rebellion it was a spontaneous, nonsectarian revolt against the government. that was a time when the government was very weak and international intervention would have been decisive. at this point, the jihadis have from other places, and where they are dominant, it is very problematic to try to have an intervention. the best we can do is try to support those who are not and hope theysts

will prevail over the government over rebels who are not so savory. >> president mubarak was released from jail. >> who do you line up with in egypt? they had just had an election. do we support the military? do we do the muslim brotherhood? could the military possibly open up some spots for the opposition so they can build a coalition government? thend the arab spring, and we have no way forward because we are left with no good solutions for who is going to run the place. >> mccain is also critical of what we are doing in egypt, or not doing. >> what do we do? we already went in on the arab spring, so we just have to play

it out. leaders can they have in jail at the same time? there is so much heat on morsi, they might as well that this other guy out. >> maybe there is a quota, i don't know. have one cell. you have to rent it out one at a time. >> our rationalization in egypt is that the anti-morsi demonstrations were the largest in egypt. states, thed largest demonstrations in the country were against the vietnam war. we were told you do not make policy in the streets. >> but we have a democracy and they don't. >> they have a fledgling democracy. you don't just toss someone out. the reality is, morsi is not level ofith the same

mubarak was. he wore white slacks and loafers. for an 85-year-old guy, that is kind of dapper. >> if incompetence were an offense, a lot of us would have been out of work a while ago. >> americans are not interested in spying on ordinary people. -- the government is not interested in spying on ordinary people. >> we learned this week that the nsa did collect tens of thousands of e-mails until a couple of years ago when a federal judge said that was unconstitutional. margaret, be careful what you write in your e-mails. >> they are so interesting. i would keep those guys up reading my e-mails.

is so industrial, taking in so much. all we can hope is that they don't use it. when this first guyened, it was the nsa looking for his ex-wife's e- mails. s dribbling outp and it is really harmful. >> the toothpaste is out of the tube on this one. they have the capability and the software to do it. the question is, what do they put in place to make it unlawful for those who are monitoring it to cross certain lines, and how do they do that, can they do that, and can we police them? >> every call is a conference call. every line is a party line to

put it bluntly. the wall street journal revealed that 75% of web traffic in the united states is being seen by the nsa. you have the court declaring it unconstitutional, but at the same time, what strikes me is that the administration is playing catch up. and theysomething out are asked about something further. and with this robust congressional oversight -- boy. i don't think there is any question that this thing is not going to go away. i think we have a case of further loss of trust and confidence in the government. >> do you trust the government, charles? margaret. these tunaing of nets that once in a while pick

up a porpoise, which you don't want to get. you are going to have a huge vacuum that scoops up all this information. then you need a technical fix to make sure it does not capture stuff you don't want and cleanses and eliminates it immediately. but if you have folks looking for the e-mail of the ex-wife, then you have a problem. this is a good opportunity. we should have a national debate in the congress. what limits? who does the oversight? this is a matter of principle. people do want to find a way to listen in on the bad guys and not listen in on the rest of us. it is a matter of drawing lines. >> do you draw a line with bradley lining -- bradley got 35 years for leaking to wikileaks? >> she is going to have a hard

time serving in leavenworth with or without the hormones she is demanding. i am going to cede to her demand to be called a she. i don't know about you, charles. as far as a zealot who wants to keep us from scooping up too much, manning got too many years. manning was washing out. he could not find a job. finally, he got put in this job. who did that? >> the bottom line is, manning is a soldier. since when do manning -- since when do soldiers get to decide what should be classified? >> it is not his decision. he made a decision. why did he have the authority and power to be able to do it is the question? the pentagonuys at

saying this guy is the victim of a horrible war. he is eligible for parole in seven years. we do allow in our culture people to re-create themselves. formerly known as prince. cash is clay became a common ali. southern rhodesia became zimbabwe. if he wants to be chelsea, he is chelsey. just one more item on the nsa, the nsa whenve they say they picked up american conversations because they misdialed 20 instead of the , 202.an -- egyptian code compared to that, bradley

manning looks like a genius. >> we have to have a set of rules we can all agree on. i don't think it is going to be that hard to decide. >> obamacare. >> the problem is, a bill that would shut down the government would not shut down obamacare. most of it is permanent law. >> that is senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell. ted cruz visited iowa twice this summer. rand paul three times. is ted cruz a headache for the republicans? thehey go there for corndogs. you cannot find them in the hamptons, even if you look. >> is he a headache? >> he is a symbol of the split between the establishment and the tea party rebels. he is a problem. he discovered that he might be canadian, which does not look

good if you're trying to be the president of another country. care of that.g i think he is brilliant at public relations, as is rand paul. senateonly been in the for a few months. he is sort of the barack obama of republicans. he only wants to serve one term. this is a rest stop for him on the way to higher things. this idea of stopping the government unless you defund obamacare, it has almost zero support. it is going nowhere. >> i could not disagree more. strong, true house republicans letter publicly to john boehner saying close it down. >> how many republicans in the house? >> 233. if you have to pass something

with 150 three republicans, that means you need to get democrats. that puts john boehner in a difficult position. it emasculate him, weakens him, and pat roberts just joined from kansas. he is on the rising ship. shut ithey going to down? >> it is not possible. ted cruz is on a self- aggrandizing mission. >> i would have thought it was not possible in 1995. >> but barack obama will veto it. justr mitch mcconnell, we heard him say it is not in the legislation. >> john boehner is for it, but he is not running the show. he has a raucous caucus. >> a raucous caucus.

>> we do poetry on this show. ted cruz quickly move to change that dual citizenship from canada so he is eligible to run in 2016. but back to congress, they are itching for a government shutdown. they are saying we will merge obamacare with the debt ceiling, then we can shut down the government. they just wanted. tom coburn, who i consider one of these solid guys in the obama, a friend of bringing up impeachment. do town hall meetings drive you nuts? >> he has been the voice of reason for quite some time and ont down the discussion obamacare. it makes you wonder what is going on? are we moving into 2014?

posturing lot of going on? >> the president was out there this week talking about the high cost of higher education. what does it cost to put a young person through a private university or college these days. >> $50,000 a year. i was stunned. a landto penn state on grant. no elitism here. i went to harvard on a scholarship. i was amused. they have mahi-mahi, not pal a bit. -- hal a bit. it is like a four star resort. you do not have to price kids out of education. >> even penn state is not cheap anymore, is it? >> it might be like when he

thousand dollars. >> this is another example of -- $20,000. >> this is another example of the federal government trying to solve a problem it largely created. they have been pumping money into the universities, who raise notion, but there is decrease in demand because it is not a free market out there. in witha wants to come all these criteria, the graduation rate, what kind of jobs people get after graduating from various universities. governmentt the should do is withdraw the not floodquired and universities with money or regulation. >> harvard has huge endowments. they can afford to give a lot of financial help. smaller schools do not have

those endowments and they have to charge. >> i think his goals are correct. but i think what they are trying to institute is not feasible. colleges like u.s. news has been doing is cost prohibitive, it has a lot of factors for fraud. he is right though that we have to educate our young people if the country is to go forward. we just have to. >> i think there are two separate problems. cost ofease in the college education is exponential. it is totally divorced from any lasttionary track in the century. it is unchallenged. i think the president's proposal to look at graduation rates, what do you do if you are a college? you do not take a risk on the

kid who might not make it all the way through, the kid who's the first in his family to go. you only take a safe bet. what alumni's earn? what jobs they get? to me, that is crazy. >> there is another piece of his package which is trying to get the for-profits under control. their students create about half of the student debt, and they provide so few jobs. that is another way to get at this problem. and they target veterans. veterans come back. they don't know where to go. they go to for-profit colleges and they are in worse shape than they were before. does it at least give you a

head start? >> dr. joe biden things it does. community college is the answer. >> the for-profit solution is to say that in a month you can get your money back so that these kids are not accruing all this debt. >> the march on washington. >> my parents felt it was important for me to be here. >> that is carolyn gambles, preparing to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the march on washington and martin luther king's i have a dreams beach. i have a dream-- speech. as we approach, a federal judge voting to overturn the texas voting law. >> congress can find a way to

fix flight control at the airports -- .> i am all for that >> and to get a plane to carry the presidential dog to the vineyard. he does require a plane. >> not of his own. mark and i were having this discussion, and he is more eloquent than i am, but we have gone from martin luther king to the reverend al sharpton. as a leader, as he is trying to be this weekend, it is very dispiriting. >> it is absolutely true. the mark on washington was a remarkable event. a march on washington was remarkable event. it was transformative. churches, particularly black churches, catholic protestant

churches in this country and jewish leadership do not play nearly the role in american life today that they played then. the bones and the box behind the uaw were walter reyes. bucks behind the uaw were walter ruth. it is a changed time. >> i think the administration has done a good job of shutting down voter suppression throughout the country. they stopped florida. they stopped pennsylvania. powell said the voting rights act in north carolina is going to hurt republicans. >> the issue is not who it will is itr hurt. the issue is constitutional? john paul stevens wrote a

voterty opinion that id is entirely constitutional. .> it is the type of id in north carolina, you can not use your college id. that is just to keep students out. >> thank you, margaret.

from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. >> issue one. dream on. 50 years ago this month a baptist minister named martin luther king delivered what many believe to be the most inspirational speech in american oratory. dr. king's 1963 address came against the backdrop of the birmingham, alabama march against anti-black racism. that toxic combination of legal segregation and second-class status for african-american citizens. the brilliance offing king's nonviolent protest movement was his combination of