captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> ifill: at least 12 people were killed in shootings at a naval building in the center of the nation's capital. one gunman is dead. it's unclear if others were involved. >> we're confronting another mass shooting. >> woodruff: also tonight, the united nations confirmed sarin gas was used in the august attack outside damascus, as the u.s. pressed ahead for a strong resolution to force syria to relinquish its chemical weapons. >> ifill: five years after the fall of lehman brothers, former treasury secretary henry paulson reflects on lessons learned from the financial crisis. >> woodruff: and fishing for crab in the bering sea is very hard work; climate change might

make it nearly impossible. >> we're scared to death. it's our bread and butter. >> ifill: good evening. i'm gwen ifill. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ? >> bnsf railway. >> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

>> woodruff: our lead story is yet another mass shooting in the united states, this time at a navy complex in the heart of washington, d.c. a hail of bullets shattered a september morning at the heavily guarded site. when it ended, a dozen victims were dead, and at least one gunman had been killed. >> it was like, pow, pow. two seconds and it stopped and then it was pow, positive. w. so we just ran. >> patricia roar was in the cafeteria of building 197 when the shooting began. others told of a gunman on the third floor of the building. way. >> he was far enough down the 458 that we couldn't see his face but we could see him with the rifle and heym aimed anç fid at us and hit high on the÷ú wall as he was trying to leave. >> what was going through your mind. >> get everyone out of the building now. >> the building and chaos erupted shortly after 8:00 this morning at the headquarters of the navalç sea systems command,

less than two miles from the u.s. capitol building. dozensç of police and %ergency response vehicles swarmedded the facility within minutes. flights were temporary grounded at reagan international airport so they wouldn't interfere with helicopters circling the navy complex. as the day wore on, district columbia police confirmed one died. he was identified at aaron alexis, a 34-year-old texan. the fbi's valerie parle appealed for help in flushing out his background. >> thus remains an active investigation. we have our evidence response team moving in to process the scenes where the shootings took place. we will also continue to rundown every lead and we will continue to work together on this investigation. with our law enforcement partners. again we ask the public to look at the photos of the deceased shooter and to contact the fbi

with any and all information. >> investigators also searched for another man wearing a military-style uniform but his role, if any, was unclear. at the white house, less than four miles away, president obama called the shooting a cowardlyñ act. and pledge add fullçó investigation. d.c. officials said they had not yetgn2v determine addñi motive.ú mayor vincent gray said there is no reason to think terrorism was involved. meanwhile, family members rushed to the shooting scene, desperately seekingç news of loved ones. >> a nervousym wreck but much better now that i know he is safe. >> and the wounded were taken to local÷ú hospitals. the warn hospital center received three victims. the shooting forced a number of schools to go on lock down. and hours later, everyone inside the u.s. capital itself was told to stay indoors for a time. in addition, the washington nationals canceled their

baseball game tonight. their stadium is not far from the navyvfnñ >> ÷úzv we get more now on this developing story from bloomberg news reporter chris strome.ç he has been reporting from the scene all day, and i spoke with him a short time ago. >> chris strome, thank you very much for talking with us. first of all, tell us where you are and then tell us what you have been table to piece together about what happened. >> i&m in the southeast quad of washington, d.c. just down the street from the washington navy yard where the shooting today took place. and according to witnesses who are coming out, we're beginning to peace together the scene that took place inside÷ú today. opened up fire. the gunman has beent( identified by authorities as aaron alexis, who is a 34-year-old former navy reservist, and witnesses haveh.e morning when the gunshots began,

down orderd8 some people were able to exit thev: buildings. one witness that i talked to, a commander, ken jarvis, said he witnessed another individual be shot when he came out into an alley. some witnesses were able to leave the scene. others were in lock down all day and they're just getting out now. >> what are you finding out, chris strome, from i i -- eyewitnesses about what they saw. >> witnesses are saying a lot of the activity, that the shooting was -- when they were in their offices, they heardt5 bangs and some witnesses immediately locked their doors and turned off their lights and hunkered down. other witnesses were able to look out windows and see the police move in. they saw a swat team, fbiym hunkered÷ú down.ç theyç heard the gunshots and ty

remained in the -- in their office buildings in the they were given clearances by the police for them ton able toç g. >> did any of them see anyone shot? >> one commander that i talked to, a navy commander, was in his office earlier this morning when he heard the fire alarm go off. and he exited the building into an alley. and when he got into the alley, he saw another man there and they began too talk. and within a minute gunshots burst out and the man he was talking to was shot in the head and this navy commander ran from the scene for his own safety. and he never saw the actual shooter, but he heard the gunshots and saw somebody be killed. >> is there -- from the people that you have talked to, that building is a very secure place. it's part of a navy complex

there. how difficult would it be to get in? >> we're actually hearing about -- it's a mixed bag when it comes to security at this building according to the people that we have been talking to. there are people that say, yes, there are heightened security measures that are at the compound, at the navy yard. but at the same time, there's not a kind of routine screening of people when they come in and out of the compound. individual buildings have different levels of security, but there are people who have been telling us that they can -- people can come in and out of the navy yard with very little screening, and we have talked with some witnesses who say that they think that there is some security vubilities that need to be fixed. >> up until just a short time ago, as far as we know, police are still looking for another suspect. do you know anything about that? and how are people dealing with

this, the fact that someone might be at large? >> yes. the police have told us that they are -- there's another another potential suspect potentially. they don't have any, you know, firm information. there was another individual, a middle aged man, wearing military attire, who was seen and is a suspect at this point thatç police are still looking for. they originally thought there might be another shooter, a third one, but they have actually ruled that out. and the one shooter they do know who has been identified at aaron alexis was shot and killed in a shoot out with police. >> chris strome be bloomberg news. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> >> ifill: the united states and key allies pressed today for syria to surrender its chemical weapons, under an agreement worked out with russia. they also called for the u.n. to

authorize military action, if damascus balks. at the same time, a report by u.n. inspectors confirmed sarin nerve gas was used in syria last month. it did not assign blanuéçç >> we will have more shortly. the the death toll in the colorado flash flooding rose to seven today, with hundreds more still stranded in cut-off communities. water spread across large tracts of boulder and larimer counties, and officials said the overall flood zone was roughly the size of delaware. at least 1,500 homes were destroyed with more than 17,000 damaged. residents of what's left of the town of lyons weren't sure what comes next. . >> we will be looking for a place to live and keeping an eye on things here. luckily both my wife and i have jobs that allow us to keep working even though we're not in, so we will just take it day by day and see how long it is before they let us back in.

>> ifill: the flooding was triggered by days of heavy rain that continued through the weekend. in iraq, shiites in several cities spent the day assessing the damage, after a bloody sunday of bombings and shootings. more than 150 people were being treated in hospitals across the country. 58 were killed in the attacks in baghdad and elsewhere. they were the latest victims in a wave of violence that has claimed more than 4,000 lives since april. the hulk of a shipwrecked cruise liner, the "costa concordia," was slowly lifted from an italian reef today. 32 people died in january of 2012 when it capsized off tuscany. engineers worked through the day in one of the most ambitious marine salvage operations ever. tourists and locals looked on, joined by a brother of one of the two victims who were never found. >> and my aim is, with what is going on, hoping to take house body or the remains out in this

case. his body will be found because they have done what they could do. and give him a decent burial. >> ifill: once the ship is upright, engineers plan to tow it away to be scrapped 28 democrats in new york city won't have to hold a runoff to pick their nominee for mayor, after all. bill de blasio, who led the field in last week's primary, locked up the nomination today when rival bill thompson withdrew. de blasio will face republican joe lhota in november's general election. the winner will succeed mayor michael bloomberg, who's finishing his third term. the white house said today president obama still intends to nominate someone to replace departing federal reserve chairman ben bernanke, later this fall. former treasury secretary lawrence summers dropped out of consideration on sunday. he said his senate confirmation would be too "acrimonious," with some democrats opposing his ties with wall street. still, white house spokesman jay carney defended summers' past service.

>> larry was in the trenches here, making stuff decisions with the president, make thing tough recommendations on policy that were often not popular but proved to be the right things to do for our economy. >> ifill: with summers' exit, janet yellen, the fed's vice chair, could become the new front-runner for the top job. on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average gained more than 118 points to close at 15,494. the nasdaq fell four points to close below 3718. the new miss america spent her first day on the job as the first winner of indian heritage. nina davuluri was crowned last night in atlantic city, new jersey, competing as miss new york. today she dismissed criticism from social media users complaining about her indian background. she said she sees herself as "first and foremost american." >> woodruff: still ahead on the newshour, the diplomatic push to control syria's chemical weapons; the commander of the rebel free syrian army; larry

summers bows out of the race to run the fed; henry paulson reflects on lessons learned from the financial crisis; and how climate change is altering the chemistry for catching crabs. >> ifill: now, more on syria and the deal to dispose of its chemical weapons. developments proceeded on two fronts today, at the united nations and in france. >> secretary of state john kerry arrived in paris teed to win allied support for the u.s.-russian agreement while keeping the threat of force alive. >> if as sought fails to comply make no mistake we are all agreed -- and that includes russia -- that there will be consequences. >> we want concrete and verifiable action very quickly, bearing in mind all options must remain on the table if the statements are not followed up

opened ground. >> the french and british allies joined by turkey and saudi arabia offered almost an international conference to rally support for the moderate acquisition in syria. the united nations went in today as well with the contents of a new report. among the findings: chemical weapons have been used in the ongoing conflict between the parties of the syrian arab republic also against civilians including children on a relatively large scale. sarin gas was used. >> the findings show this was a war crime and violation of the 1985 protocol and -- >> the report however did not say who was responsible. the u.s.-russia agreement hammered out saturday in geneva will be hammered into a u.n.

security council resolution. the government must provide an inventory of all weapons within a week. the chemical weapons must then be removed or destroyed by 2014. if syria fails to comply, the u.s. and russia are to return to the u.n. security council to explore how to punish the regime. on that last point, kerry insisted today the agreement authorizes the use of military force. but in moscow, the foreign minister strongly disagreed. he said threatening force won't bring peace to syria. >> if we want to solve the problem of destroying syrian chemical weapons then the u.s.-russian road map open's real, concrete and practical solution. if some find it more important to threaten, intimidate, to look for a reason to attack and this is probably a way to hint to the opponents that new provocations are expected from them. >> at the white house today

president obama sounded with hope and skepticism calling the agreement an important step but an interim one. >> we're not there yet but if proper i had implemented this agreement could end the threat these weapons pose not only the syrian people but to the world. >> in damascus, the syrian government said it will comply with the u.s.-russian deal even as conventional warfare waged in the city's suburbs but the main opposition group, the syrian national opposition charged the outside regime is simply dlaig for time. >> even with a framework deal in place, and a newly critical report from the u.n. in hand, there remain new questions about what happens next. for some insight on that, we turn once again to charles duelfer, a former u.n. weapons inspector in iraq, who also led the c.i.a.'s iraq survey group. back to the newshour. >> now, help me with this. this framework allows for all of these weapons to be secured, removed by mid 2014.

how would that work? >> the framework does one key thing. it puts the burden on the government in damascus. thank you are the ones to declare what they have. they are obligated to concentrate the weapons in locations as termed by the weapons inspectors. the task of the weapons inspectors is to verify what the syrians have declared. that's key transactional flow there. >> and putting the burden on the government in damascus, is everybody completely dependent on as sought to tell the truth about where the weapons are? >> no. one remarkable thing came out of geneva and hat is that second kerry said their assessment about the inventory was quite similar so when syria takes the first step in the next few days of offering up a declaration of what they have, we will have a quick indication of whether it comports with what the assessments are and that will be a first detipoff. >> the you wanted nations report

did not establish complicity and did not point directly at the assad government including the national security advisor, susan rice, come out with a statement saying we know this. how do we know this. >> there was a lot of information available to the united states which was not available to the weapons inspectors. there's all of the mechanism of the intelligence community that can be applied such as radio communications. they may have data about the trajectory of the rockets and who was at the launch point. the unique quality of the u.n. information is seen as credible by all parties. nevertheless when you luke at the report and the details of it, particularly about the munitions used, it does tend to point to an organized group as opposed to some ad hoc report cooking these things up in the basement. there are two types of rockette munition use and this suggestioning a medical tear organization as opposed to a rebel organization. >> one other complications, i'm

just here to bring complications to you. how do you move weapons such as this during the middle of a civil war where congressional weapons are flying everywhere. >> well not all of syria is in the midst of conflict and presumably blarbled will keep his most important weapons in areas that are secure. in comparing this with iraq there's a huge advantage. iraq had been undergoing a lot of bombing for months, the place had been bombed. weapons depos, bunkers and military bases, administration if a facilities. when the inspectors first went in iraq, the place was a mess. in syria the weapons are presumably located in a few locations. the requirement to move people safely will be on the part of the government so in some ways this will be easier. the initial step of getting a declaration is critical. the next step will be to have the government concentrate the weapons at certain places and hand over control to the international community. >> you mentioned iraq. how does this compare to syria

where the leader came out and said i'm going to give up my weapons and then someone had to enforce that? >> well, i think implicitly or explicitly the force is there. certainly bashar al-assad will have given a speech saying he was going to conduct a military strike. in the book of obama, i think he is guilty but he suspended the sentence. so whether or not the security council agrees to use of force, the united states will -- we did this before in 1998. bill clinton conduct add unilateral, with the assistance of the uk, punishing raid on iraq for not complying with u.n. weapons inspectors at that time. the insent testify is different. there's no sankions on bashar al-assad that would be lifted as was the case with saddam hussein. >> a week ago we were sitting here in the studio talking about the interview with charlie rose

where he said weapons? what weapons? now a week later we are talking about what he will do with the chemical weapons he has admitted to having. how far have we come? how surprise reasonable doubt you that we have come this far in a week? >> that's an astonishing change and with all due respect you have to give credit to sergei for that. here is a guy that spent five years at the united nations as a russian ambassador at the un and went through the iraqi crises with the weapons inspectors and the security council. you know, he put in play this idea of having bashar al-assaded give up his chemical weapons. only the russians could have convinced bashar al-assad to do that. that acknowledgment was a key change so the whole dynamic is different. >> does this in any way undercut the rebels in their ability to conduct a civil war to oust sass? >> what is the incentive for bashar al-assad? if i had to imagine a

conversation, i would say she probably saying, look, your best chance at survival is to increase your international legitimacy. the one way you can do that is by opening up your chemical weapons. the counter to that is, over that same point in time, bashar al-assad is increasing, the rebels are decreasing theirs. >> charles duelfer thank you again for clearing that up for us. >> thank you, gwen. >> to the extent it can be cleared up. one group that criticized the u.s.-russia agreement is the free syrian army. they have been fighting the assad government for more than two years. i spoke earlier today to rebel leader, general salim idris. he connected with us via skype from inside syria. >> general, thank you for joining us. i want to start by asking you for you reaction to this new u.s.-russia brokered deal that caused for the seizure and destruction of chemical weapons. >> there is a wartime and there is a criminal regime.

there is a -- of president and other than that, we think now that there is a very little chance for that. what we can say, the syrian people, on behalf of the syrian people and the revolutionary forces that we are very frustrated because of somewhat going on and -- because of what is going on and the international community is not caring any more about the victims. >> president obama said a few weeks ago that he would send arms to help you. have you received those arms? >> we are receiving now many kinds of support from our american friends. but i can't talk in media about military support. you excuse me please.

you know this is very particular and i can't talk about it. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said he didn't think the side the u.s. has chosen is ready to support their interest and ours. do you feel like you're ready now? >> we are ready in the free syrian army, for everything. and we appreciate and we will come, many kinds of help from our friends in the united states. and under our command, we have a very well-organized brigade and battalions that are working and fighting for freedom, for democracy. >> there's some concern however in the u.s. that some of the arms, if they were provided to the rebels would end up in the hand of jihaddists. what do you say to that. >> we are in the free syrian army to give you any kind of guarantee that you need to assure you that any dined of

ammunitions that you are going to deliver to us will be in the right hands, the hands of my officers, of my soldiers, of my fighters who are really moderate -- who are fighting for democracy, for freedom, who are against extra and all other jihaddist and -- we do not have any access to this kind of support and now we don't share information with them. we don't support them. we don't give them ammunition and weapons. >> as you know, general, the u.s. has said they will not endorse direct military intervention in in this civil war. that's what the president has said and i know some of your friends in congress disagree with that but that's the last thing we heard from the president and from secretary kerry. so what do you want to u.s. to do, given that limitation?

>> they can organize a no-fly zone over the country with the support of the western countries or the support of the security counsel, especially now. i think it is more easy after the report, after the last report, and the last report there is a crime. they can help us doing -- using the long-distance weapons, using airports and not directly to send fighters on the ground. >> but, general, as you know, the u.n. report doesn't actually say the government is behind these attacks, which leads open the possibility, some folks say, that your folks are behind them. >> oh, my god. please. don't the ssa has the ability to launch a chemical material? we said many, many times we don't have chemical materials. and as you know, it stated very

clearly that our friends in the united states, they know where that rocket launched from and where they landed and who gave the order. we know who gave the order. we have evidence and the international community, all of our friends in the international community, they know that the regime used that chemical material. >> i have one final question for you, sir. do you think given the report from the u.n. and the deal that was cut in geneva that you are any closer to your goal of overthrowing as sar. >> i think we are close to overthrowing bashar and i hope to collapse the regime tomorrow. we hope that our friends in the united states help us and our friends in europe. because the russians and the irans are helping the criminal

regime. >> general salim idris, thank you. >> woodruff: now we turn to the search for a new chairman of the federal reserve bank, and to former treasury secretary larry summers' surprise decision to withdraw from the competition. he was considered the leading candidate to succeed ben bernanke. jeffrey brown has that story. >> it's ban very public speck tackling and now there's new speculation about who would be tapped to take over when better than aches anxiousy's second term ends in january. david wessel looked it over. was he taking himself out of the rupping or the white house realizing there was 25067 opposition and it just wasn't going to happen. >> i don't think those are mutually exclusive. i think larry summers realized and was probably counseled by the white house that his odds of getting through the senate were not very good: i don't think

they told him to get out but i think he saw the handwriting on the wall and called the president on sunday, withdrew his name, and explained that confirmation would be too acrimonious. >> and in explaining why he was such a charged candidate, some of it was personality clearly but a lot of it was, what? people, he became a symbol for people of what led up to the financial crises essentially? >> yeah. you might even say he was a caricature. people in the markets thought he would run a fighter monetary policy than ben bernanke or janet yelin, the current vice chair would run and a lot of people associated him with the deregulate tore mistakes of the chin ton era and i think, blamed him for more things than he was really guilty of. >> you mentioned janet yelin. the question is what now, who now? she had been the other leading done tender. where do things stand as far as you can tell? >> well, the indication that

weesh getting is that she has a high hikely hood of being picked by president obama probably sometimes in the next couple of weeks. we're told they're not reopening the search. she is obviously a highly qualified candidate who allowed the -- it would allow the president to say he put a woman in the job. i think it would be clear she would be his second choice. the president by all indications preferred larry summers. he is out. it looks like he is going to hand on her. >> other names have been out there, timothy geitner, the former secretary and a few others. are they still talked about? >> well, i mean the third contender was donald kohn, now at the brookings institution. the president has told us that he interviewed him. time geitner is also a possibility, the former treasure secretary. he has been sending strong signals that he doesn't want the job which i interpret as a message to the president of please, please don't call me and ask me to take it.

the latest information that we have and i'm talking about information today is that janet ye limit n looks like the favorite barring some glitch or health problem or con film of interest that has not come to foreyet. >> even this week the fed is meeting meeting with very big decisions in front of it. >> that's right. the fed will meet tuesday and wednesday this weak and there are two things to watch. one; will this be the meeting in which they begin to take their foot off the accelerator, to scale back the $85 billion in funds they buy every month. and second, how will they reinforce of the message if they do that or not that they intend to keep short-term interest rates very low, near zero for long time until unemployment comes down and one of the reasons of choice is, ben bernanke is the chairman. she making predictionses promises about what policy will be on his term.

so it matters who his successor is. if it's janet yelin, we can be assured there will be some continuity since she has her fingerprints on that decision. >> finally what about the public nature of what has been unfolding the past weeks and months, how unusually and is there any thinking that it may have -- that it may damage the fed in some sense no matter who is picked? >> absolutely. it is unusually. fed transitions are always a big deal but rarely have they been so public and politicized at this one. the fed was already on the defensive and has been on the defensive since the bailout of the financial cries. i know you talked to hank paulison today. he called the process disgusting. i think the fact that the president will get his second choice will hurt janet yelin when she gets the job. i'm sure if she does a good job it will go away but it makes the job more political and every decision will be looked at through the partisan lens that is unusually for the feds, not

the way it has been done in the past. >> and this the choice for fed chair played into other politics in washington, right. absolutely. there's people who want an easy money person and there are people who are worry ed about the quality of the commitment to regulation. there's a whole issue about the democratic liberal establishment and the women's organizations, have they pressured the president to this, and will this make her suspect with the moderates and the right winning. so, yeah, it's part of a whole sequence of things and i think it does damage the fed. i don't think it's irreparable but it gives her one extra burden on top of the already momentous burden of dealing with the federal preserve policy committee which is a frack issues bunch of 19 people. >> >> thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> now to the crises that consumed the federal research when u.s. financial markets came tumbling down five years ago this week. as david mentioned we have

perspective from president george bush's point person as america woke up to find wall street imploding. >> i'm playing the hand dealt me. >> september 15, 2008. global financial markets were melting down. and then treasure secretary hank paulson defended the decision not to bail out lehman brothers. a 158-year-old investment firm. it came months after the fed provided credit so that j.p. morgan chase could buy the failing bear stearns. paulison said no one wanted to buy meme lan. >> the situation in march, in the situation in the facts around bear stearns were very, very different to the situation we're looking at here in september. and i never once considered that it was appropriate to put taxpayer money on the line in resolving lehman brothers. >> his remarks did not calm investors or the system. within days and even hours of

that news, other financial giants teetered on the brink. bank of america purchased wall street investment house merrill lynch. j.p. morgan chase bought washington mutual. wells fargo bought wachovia. and the government propped up aig. the world's largest insurer because it's financial best theirly paralyzed the banking system. paulson, former c.e.o. of goldman sachs ultimately did get congress to pass the controversial tarp or troubled assets relief program. under the measure, the government could disburse up to $700 billion to the bank in an effort to shore up the financial sector. ultimately it spent a little over 400 billion and has turned a small prof it. the system was stabilized. but public anger at wall street was simmering. in july of 2010, president obama

signed the dodd-frank financial reform legislation. while the law promised some of the biggest changes to wall street since the great depression, many of the internal regulations are still being written. today, the president touted the success of his administration's response to the financial christ but also acknowledged many miles per hours remembered that time from a very different perspective. >> most american whose have known economic hardship these past several years, they don't think about the collapse of lehman brothers when they think about the recession. instead, they recall the day they got the gut punch of a pink slip. or the day a bank took away their home. >> like the obama administration, paulison, too, has been trying to convey a fuller portrait of what he achieved during the crises. today, i sat dune to discuss the legacy of the meltdown chronicled in his book "on the

brink" and in a new documentary "hank" out today. >> second henry paulson, thank you for talking with us. judy, it's very good took here. >> here we are, five years after the financial collapse. you have said, there are still banks out there too big to fail. you have also said you expect -- in fact you think that another collapse is inevitable. do you think that it could happen at any time in the near future? >> judy, i think that the situation is much better than it was. we have come a long way, a lot has been done. the markets are functioning as normal right now. i think we have got the best financial system in the world. the most transparent, the most efficient. we still have work to be done. now, with regard to the banks, i'm actually pleased that we

have the powers from dodd-frank which let regulators wind down any failing institution no matter how large outside of bankruptcy. so i'm much more focused on cleaning up other problems. much more focused on fixing fannie and freddie, addressing other issues. >> so the argument by, among others, elizabeth warren, now the senator from massachusetts, these these banks are so big, they have not been regulated at quitly and they ought to be broken up. >> i don't think any bank should be too baig to fail, any bank needs to be too big to fail. almost any bank of size 1 too biggs to liquidate immediately in a christ but i believe we have got the tools we need today. regulators have the tools to deal with failing banks and make sure that they're not propped up in their current form. and these are tools i would love to have had when i was treasury

secretary. >> well speaking of that, today is the fifth anniversary of the collapse of lehman brothers. i have seen he several interviews that you did on the subject. you said you didn't have the authority to safely man. my question is: if you had a do-over is there anything that you would have done differently with that regard? >> in regard to lehman there's nothing i can think of that we would have done over. ben and geithner and i had said we didn't have the authorities. i wish we have had the authorities. but let's not forget the fact that lehman was a symptom. it wasn't the cause of the crises. that i'm very pleased when i look back, very pleased about one thing and that is that we are able to work with the democrats, with republicans, to be able to work on a bipartisan basis. twice, with fannie and freddie and then with the tarp, get the authorities we needed, move

quickly, get capital out in the banks and avoid a catastrophe. >> you mentioned tarp. a lot of corporation to this day about that program. that became almost a household made. the troubled aid relief program a lot of government money went to the banks. the banks are thriving, making more than they ever made. taxpayers haven't really been a part of this. was there something about tarp that you would have organized differently? >> let me correcting one thing, ok? the money that went into the tarp capital and insurance company bank -- bank and insurance capital programs it has all come back plus $32 billion. so the money has come back plus 32 billion additional dollars for the taxpayer. the second thing i had say about that program is that it was unique. i can't think of anywhere in the world or anyone that has done a program where you went out and put capital into hundreds of

banks. hundreds of banks before they were failing, getting them tout to recapitalize the system. i think that really made a huge, huge positive difference. now, the do over that i would have, i wish that i had been able to convince the american people that we didn't do this for those banks. we did it for them. we did it to prevent a terrible disaster that could have rifled or exceeded that of the great depression. >> don'tem americans have a right to be angry when they look at wall street and see the banks doing so well and ask, what about the rest of us? >> well, american press quite understandably very frustrated because they suffered a great deal everyday the crises. and the economy is still not growing as fast as we need it to go to create the jobs that we need to treat, to have prosperity and really a

sustainable recovery. one of the things that we want to do is to remind people how close we came to going into the abyss, how important it was that we took the steps that we did and how important it is that we learn our lesson so that we don't repeat the same problem. >> let's look ahead for just a minute. a number of prominent members of your party, the republican party, who are today arguing that the real problem the economy faces is the government and government debt, and a number of them are talking about using the debt ceiling as an instrument to keep government spending down. all right. is the debt limit an appropriate tool to use to do that? >> i'm a former treasurely secretary, and every treasure secretary hates the fact that we need to go backing to congress and ask them to raise the debt creel something we can meet the obligations that they have already approved. so we all hate that.

that's a flaw in the system. number one. number two, the point i continually make is that we won't default on our dealt. there will be brinksmanship. there will be politicking. but at the end of the day, congress should raise the debt creeling and congress will raise the debt ceiling. they always do. >> last question: the federal reserve. you know the importance of the federal reserve. you work very closely with the chairman during the financial crises. today there's big question about who is going to replace ben bernanke, and larry summers has taken him name out. a lot of attention on janet yelin. knowing what you know of her is she someone that is qualified to be chairman? >> judy, the fed job is a very important job. and i have been very disturbed by all of the politicking around

it and the whole way this situation has been handled. all i know is good things about janet yelin. i don't know her well. i met her a couple of times. there are number of good candidates. i also have a high regard for larry summers. >> when you speaking of politicking around the fed chairmanship what does that say to you about the concern out there in congress and elsewhere, about government -- the role of the government, in awful this. >> what it says to me is that we have dysfunction in our political process in washington, d.c. and it's really time for both parties to come together and come up with solutions for the good of the country, and i and as i said i was disgusted by the politicking around the situation. this is a very important job. these are very important, credible, good people that are being considered for the job.

too often in washington, when people disagree on policy, they attack the person. and i just got no -- no at all sympathy for that. >> henry paulson thank you very much. good to talk with you. >> judy, thank you. >> ifill: finally tonight, it's north to alaska for the first of three reports on climate change in the arctic region. our story was produced for the newshour by the seattle times, in partnership with the pulitzer center on crisis reporting. the "times" team has just published a multi-platform look at the fallout from increased acid levels in the ocean. ray suarez narrates part one of our series, called "arctic thaw." >> suarez: for decades, fishermen like kale garcia have come to alaska to seek their fortunes in one of the worlds most productive marine systems,

the vast frigid waters of the bering sea. >> there's something very powerful about being out in the ocean. and no matter how big your boat is, it gets very, very small out there. >> suarez: and of all the seafood treasures chased by fishing boat captains like garcia, none has come to symbolize alaska's adventurous spirit quite like crab fishing. >> it was like a sport for me. but it was like an adrenalin sport. like any adrenalin sport, you wanted more of it as soon as you could get it. >> suarez: alaska's bering sea crab fishery is one of the most storied industries in the world, known for great risks and great rewards. but the same ocean waters that spawned this industry may prove its undoing. new research suggests the chemistry of the north pacific is changing in ways that poses serious trouble for alaska's two signature crab species, red king

crab and snow crab. the culprit: ocean acidification caused by human carbon dioxide emissions. >> as carbon dioxide changes the sea's chemistry it also robs the water of important minerals that marine creatures need to grow, especially creatures with shells. >> when you look at the ocean, whether it's a crustacean like a crab or a reef, need a certain amount of dissolved minerals that naturally exist in the ocean to build those shells. but as ocean -- it reduces those minerals that are available for those ordinances. >> so oceaning oceanographers

have been teemg up with biologists and fishing experts to see how acidif indication works on crabs. when researchers exposed baby red king crab to sea conditions expected later in the century, scientists were not expecting much. instead, of the result raised concern about the future for red king crab and snow crab which live in similar environments and may respond in similar ways. unfortunately what that found is a significant increase in mortality rates, our loss in growth rate, our loss in calcify indication, how quickly the crabs needed to build their shell. the crab did not do as well under these ocean acidification settings. >> the findings were a troubling surprise said expert andre punt, from the university of washington school of fisheries science. >> the crab died within the first 200 days so if they

survived the 200 days they would not make it. >> that was just the beginning. when mathis, who makes his living sampling sea chemistry analyzed conditions off of alaska he found it changing far faster than expected. >> what is alarming about the study is that we thought we were exposing these crabs to future scenarios which may have been 50 or a hundred years from now. when in fact, our recent work in the bearing sea has shown those conditions exist today so this is a real thing that is happening right now today, not some future condition that they're going to experience some time later on. >> there's no indication yet that crab in the wild are dying more rapidly. sea chemistry for the moment is only bad at times of the year when crabs aren't particularly vulnerable. but the waters are growing more corrosive every year. it's also possible that crabs might find a way to accommodate

these changes in chemistry. >> one of the key things we don't know is how crabs will adapt to the future. so it's not unreasonable 20 assume, for example, that they might move, that, you know, some form of rapid ocean current may become somewhat more robust. we don't know that. >> ultimately for crab it may about race against time. >> are they going to be able to adapt or are these levels of carbon dioxide going to rise so quickly that, from an evolutionary standpoint that there's just no way they can keep up? >> and with so many of alaska's crab captains and crew members based in the pacific north west, the industry already has had a front row seat for the kind of devastation ocean acidification. hate wiped out billions of oysters in washington and oregon, a half century or more sooner than anyone predicted.

for crab fishermen like brad robertson, the stakes couldn't be higher. >> it's definitely something to worry about. all of us, we talked about it and i always just thought oh, it's not happening in the baring sea. i haven't 'zine this study. but obviously it is happening in the bearing sea. i don't know. it's scary as hell. something must get figured out. i don't know. >> his boss, jim stone >> suarez: his boss, jim stone, co-owner of the "arctic hunter" and president of an industry trade group, is trying to remain optimistic. >> i guess, you know, we're scared to death, but we've heard a lot of horror stories before, been hearing them for years, and we all have, you know? crabbing is our bread and butter, and it would be a huge blow to the state to lose king crab due to whatever reason, ocean acidification or other.

>> i think it would be devastating. i mean, i know it would be devastating for me. a lot of people that have been involved in the industry don't... it's something that they've been in forever. people like that don't plan an exit strategy out of the fishery. you know, there is no exit strategy. it's like, this is what we do. you know, we fish. >> suarez: and, of course, mathis said, crab won't be the only species susceptible to ocean acidification. >> would it change the behavior of many important fish, alaska's fishing community is increasingly resigned to with a new reality. ocean acidification will almost certainly be an extremely disruptive force for years to come. >> that story and >> ifill: that story and many others are part of a seattle times project called "sea change." you can find a link that, and to the pulitzer center's series on the impact of climate change on five arctic countries, on the newshour home page.

in our next report: the challenges facing ships' captains as they navigate freshly melted arctic seas. >> late this afternoon, there were firecrackers thrown over the fence of the white house, made people so nervous in a day in washington when we have been tracking down a scary shooting incident where people were worried and the town was rattled. >> gwen, the washington post reporting we have seen the shootings in other cities, now in washington, the worst mass shooting -- the mass loss of life in this city since the plane crash in the potomac river in 1982. >> again, the major again, the major developments of the day. at least a dozen people and a gunman died in a mass shooting at the washington, d.c. navy yard. the shooter was identified as a former navy reservist but there was no word on a possible motive.

and the u.s. and key allies pressed for the u.n. to authorize the use of force if syria fails to surrender its chemical weapons under a u.s.- russian agreement >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on tuesday, we'll take a look at questions you submitted, about the new health care law. i'm gwen ifill. >> and i'm judy woodruff, we'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening. on behalf of all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> supported by the john d. and

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