>>rose: welcome to the program.l men in global finance. george osborne, britain's chancellor of the exchequer. >> they advocate l fiscalstimuln afford it. i don't think the problem in the west is that we haven't spent enough as governments. our problem is we need more business investment we need to export things, the rest of the world wants to buy. >>rose: and from the whitehouset obama's council of economic advisors. >> one of the big untoldstoriess we've had the slowest growth in reper cers per capita health

spending. it's helping our employers at jobs, helping our families with wages and helping to make health insurance more affordable. there's a lot of reasons that that's happened charlie but one of them is definitely the affordable care act. >>rose: we conclude this evenins book, "the kid: the immortal life of ted williams." >> he struggled with anger, hewn the ball field because he liked to say he hit better angry. he was a multidimensional figure. i think that's what's interest be approximately. >> furman, okay, bradlee when w. >> funding for comearfunding acd

american express. additional funding provided by these: >> and by bloomberg.a multimedi. from our studios in new yor. this is charlie rose. >>rose: george osborne is here.e exchequer. architect of the policy of as you tearity. keeping borrowing cost low, recently britain's economy has started to grow. osborne says his policies are the reason why. i am pleased to have george osborne back at this table. welcome. >> it's good to be here. >>rose: so looking at how fasttn growing, more than any other g 7

country. tell me why you think that's true. what did you do, take as much credit as you want to. as to what made a difference. >> well, look i'm not goingotak. through a lot of hard work by the british people. >> what are the ideas in play? >> the idea in play is first ofn your means, particularly a country without a reserve currency like britain. we've been reducing the deficit in a consistent way, secondly, you've got to repair your banking system. we've done difficult changes to our banking system but that is now worked through. and then finally you've got to have an environment in which people feel confident about investing. britain's been superconfident in the world and the big down pull is lifting, the hard work and

british people have got us here. >>rose: you meet people youknowd others, what are their concern about the british economy? >> i think at the moment, theyae british economy. we are a very open economy. we are getting investment from china as well as the united states. the question everyone wants to know with this financial regulation are you going to reach a point where you can say done? you get the same question in the united states. >>rose: exactly. >> and what are you going to don not always ties up. i think it's incumbent on policy makers on both sides of the atlantic to work through these overlaps and underlaps and have -- it's a negotiable financial system i think we need more of a global approach to regulating it. >>rose: okay but are you sayingn

effect are discussed, whether it has to do with whatever it has to do, are more because of simply differences in circumstances in europe versus united states or is it different in a philosophy of regulation. >> look i think we're all tryins we want big successful financial services but don't want them to bring down the economy when they fail. particularly in a country like the u.k, we've got similar size banking system than the u.s. but a much smaller economy. we have to solve this big to fail problem. it is a system of economic stability and sound management. we have taken a slightly different approach from volker, we ring fence our banks. >> how do you ring fence? >> you ring fence and separateo. have a different governance

structure, have different capital attached to it. the reason being when someone doing my job faces that impossible choice on a saturday night as my predecessor did and various u.s. treasury secretaries did, do you let the big bank fail? you want to give the person doing my job some options and you want to be able to bail-in the creditors. not bail-out with taxpayers' money. it's part of learning what went wrong, learning the lessons of what went wrong, the repair has taken some years but i think we're getting there and it's part of a platform of economic stability and progress that helps -- >>rose: was most of dodd frankry and american system in principle right there? >> i have a huge response forpae approach that he has recommended and the u.s. political system

has pursued. we pursued a slightly different approach but it's all about the same thing, managing risk in your financial system. i want london to be the preeminent global center for finance but i want to make sure that we have the benefits of that but we are not pulled down by it if it goes wrong. >>rose: do you think at a that'? >> i think it is.finance is abo, finance, assurance, asset management. we are trying to make ourselves the biggest center of the renminbi center of the west. >> some of the kinds ofcriticisr budget responsibility says as the share of a national income will reach its lowest level of income since the 1970s. >> if government is gettingsmalt

apologizing for that. i believe in keeping out of things it's good at and not very good at. whether it reaches the size it was in 1948 partly depends on whether you tackle entitlements. that particular measure is about the size of the public services. now i would like to have great education in britain, i want to be investing in infrastructure and -- >>rose: but. >> if you are not cutting backoh can support your long term economic future. >>rose: when you attackentitlem? >> i think you need do a couples right, so it pays to work. every hour you work you have something for it. we have these very high tax rates in the u.s. and the u.k, these paper races, draw races where people on low incomes can

find themselves facing 98, 99, 100% tax rates, in effect for the extra hour they work or aextra $10 they earn. it's a silent part of our welfare systems on both sides of the atlantic. so i'd say reform needs to be based around the system of it pays to work and you have to have a welfare system that is fair to those who pay for it as well as those who use it. >>rose: the industry for fiscal, 86% from spending cuts and only 14% from tax increases. do you think that's the right balance? >> numbers move around a littlee right ballpark. ultimately the problem in britain, and this be true in some countries, the problem in britain is we don't tax too much, we spend too much. that's the root of the problem. i have not said no tax increases

as part of this consolidation. but i do think going forward because we still got a way to go with this consolidation it can now be done through spending reduction. i think our plans do not need tax increases. and in the end look. britain like the states we are in a global race and there are some very competitive places out there in the world. and you don't make yourself competitive by increasing your taxes. >>rose: that is true but youdone if you are failing to meet standards or the education, on infrastructure, on research and development. all those things which make an economy competitive around the world. and that's what you have to be. >> i agree with you 100%.so thee focusing the government resources you have on those things, on your school system on your higher education.

>>rose: but are those off limit? >> those are things i'veprotect. now give you an example, i've protected the science budget because it's incredibly important -- >>rose: it is incrediblyimporta- >> what are thee advanceeconomin the future? innovation, knowledge, we led the world in scientific endeavor. british scientist just won the nobel prize. and there are some things missing in the west, we need to have the ambition, we need to believe we can do this. >>rose: to give up a kind ofcom? >> i wouldn't say it'scomplacen.

it defeatism. we look at these asian economies and we say i give up. we have got to say to ourselves look, we have the political freedoms and the innovation and the ingenuity and the creativity. look at the incredible city i'm in at the moment, what's been created here in the past, what's been created as i speak, we've got to have more self confidence in the west. >>rose: you mean the west orwes. >> it's europe, great britain,t. some countries are not going to be able to keep up or make the difficult decisions that are needed to make sure government lives within its means. >>rose: there's argument abouttl debt become so detrimental to the economy or when is it manageable? where the emphasis should be on

growth, more importantly than that, one person who articulates that i know is larry summers who recently on the program said, deficits are a greater impediment to growth. we've talked about that. secondly, with interest rates so low there's no better time to borrow, and it will close the fiscal assets of its own, you don't want to take your focus off the growth wherever it may come whether it's stimulus from the government or otherwise. >> i've got a huge amount ofresi don't agree with him that we can go on borrowing. you can't get rich by writing checks to yourself. >>rose: but you can stimulate a-

>> these advocates, theyadvocatn better times because the country can afford it. it's always for more borrowing and more spending and i don't think again the problem in the west is that we haven't spent enough as governments. our problem is, we need more business investment, we need to export things that the rest of the world wants to buy. these are our challenges. we need to grow our private sector. so look: of course i want government to provide great education. that means taking on some vested interest in our school system. i want a welfare system where it pays to work, great infrastructure whether it's broad bands or roads or whatever high speed rail in england. i'm not saying government just get out of the way but government do what it's good at and government don't get to a point where it's costing so much and the debt of the country is growing so high that you are creating real economic

instability or at least the potential for real instability because we don't know when the next turn down is going to come. but what i do know is at the end of this financial crisis western countries have very high debt levels and they have less ability to absorb shocks than they did five or six years ago. >>rose: and you include theunit? >> i don't want to come here any makers. >>rose: not asking for a lectur. >> the american debt has comedo. >>rose: exactly. >> in a way you understandbetten political system has made decisions about the debt level through the sequester and so on. there are other approaches you could have to these things but at least the political system like in the u.k. has had to face up to some tough choices. >>rose: this is what theeconomis

recovery starts to look more iffy. wages haven't risen but, fallen to below its historic average. this debt fuel consumption is a return to britain's old precrisis growth model. >> well i think they're beingpek carney, at the moment this is income supported consumption. it's not borrowed consumption. but i am absolutely clear. we do need to see the handover now from consumption to business investment and exports in the u.k. we do need -- we need to have that balance model of growth that has eluded our country and other countries in the past. >>rose: this is politics acoupld balls who you know, in living memory where we have had a fall in living standards like this. >> there has not been aparliamey

where we've had to recover from such a deep recession. in great britain our gdp shrunk by 7%, had a bigger bail out of the banks than you had in the states. what is good about the british recovery now is it's creating jobs and it's creating employment. job creation in the u.k. is running around 60,000 in a month, which the u.s. equivalent would be around 300,000 in a month. job rich recovery. >>rose: more than we have. >> we have got to support that,s taxes so those jobs are being created. i think what would be a much bigger challenge in recovery would be to have rising unemployment and thankfully we don't have that. >> and there's also at the samee economy is growing, kind of economy is back. you are suggesting i think by or

add least the charter for budget responsibility says, we ought to have a balanced budget by 2018. is that possible? >> well, that's my ambition ist. and then in surplus. >>rose: by 2018? >> our current forecast is weca. there's old i think it was originally a john f. kennedy expression you got to fix the roof when the sun is shining. that home spun logic is when do you repair your public finances? comes back to my earlier point, borrow in the good years as well as borrow in the bad years. when the good years return you should be running surpluses in my view, and the u.k. is going to end at this whole crisis and recovery with a public debt that is too high and you've got to start reducing it.

that's an uncomfortable truth but that's how you make sure we're resilient by whatever comes next. >>rose: when you look at thepolt you're not doing better in the polls? >> look in the end we'redoing -- >>rose: behind by 8 or 9%.you k. >> there's a poll today that ha. first of all you got to do good economics because good politics will flow from that. if you are chasing the opinion poll rating, i think that becomes self-defeating. and we have done things that any pollster will tell you are not popular. indeed they're right. you couldn't cut welfare entitlements without it being incredibly unpopular. chart your course by what you think is the right thing, what's going to help the economy. the politics will flow from that. we still are 18 months from the election, we are what you call

the mid terms and to be basically within touching distance of your opponents and actually, as the pot light starts to shine on them, they were the people that got us into this mess. i don't think they're the people to get us out. >>rose: what do you think ishap? >> it's an incredible place.i w. every time you go it seems bigger. and i think there's a lot of interesting -- one of the things i think we have to understand about china is it is no longer sort of just a sweatshop on the po river turning out cheap toys and manufactured goods. there's a cheap amount of sophistication in the chinese economy. second or third economy in the world and no one would have expected it, kind of lucky cent some sorry ten cent which proves

the point. it's a going company. we've got to do business with china. we want chinese investment, we want british and american investment into china. it's in our interest that china is connected with the global economic system. and of course, there are going to be national security issues that come along and i'm not naive about that. but ultimately the more we bring our economies together, i think the more that helps any national security issues that arise. and i think china needs to be a big player in the future. it's going to be a big player. but it needs to be appositive player and we can't ignore it. >>rose: what do you fear aboutt? for example, do you fear some kind of bank lending housing bubble that might develop? because the bank of england recently redirected a lending program away from housing?

>> i think that's a size ofrecoo remove some of the life support put on the banking system. on housing it's a challenge in britain, obviously you've had your challenge in housing as well. we are a geographically small country and our planning rules are very restrictive. we need to build more homes and that's i think the way to deal with rapid house price inflation. you shouldn't be saying to families, you can't own your own home. i'm sorry it's for me not for you. that cap on aaspiration is something i not support. we have in the bank of england a system we developed, in a way people were not doing five to six years ago. >>rose: what about exports? >> well, exports, ultimatelyyoue

people in the world want to buy. for a better price and a quality that the people want to buy. >>rose: germany figured thatout. >> indeed.britain, we were up, e patterns are too tied to the european continent and toss u.s. now. those are good markets in good years and as i've just been talking about want to conclude the transatlantic -- we need to export more to the chinas and brazils of the worth. >>rose: why because governmentre of the middle class and those emerging markets? >> i think it's -- we didn'thavu know, germany frankly had to go out and get into these new markets. >>rose: didn't have theambition? >> i think also, britain is more

manufacturing economy. and i think as china to take that example, matures, and there is this emerging middle class they're going to want pensions, insurance. >>rose: right. >> going to want to fly onairplt britain is good at producing. >>rose: take china are theygoinn that, more of a safety net? >> they will develop more of as. there needs to be more of a domestic situation in china. things like a pension, that's -- it's not a safety net but it's a form of providing for your future that doesn't involve just having a bunch of notes stuck under the bed mattress. the chinese middle class are going to want pensions. who's good at producing pensions? british institutions. who is good at producing

pharmaceuticals? british pharma. i'm not naive about the national security issues. but if you think of it as a threat you're going omiss. >>rose: speaking of nationalsece president with respect to syria? >> i was an advocate to takingae use of chemical weapons was completely unacceptable. >>rose: were you stunned or not? >> i spoke to the -- i'm in the. i spoke to a number of members of my party. first of all, our principal opponents, the labor party desserted us on our -- deserted us on our vote. we found a lot of fatigue, the british army has been alongside the americans in iraq, afghanistan for a decade now.

and people are skeptical. i feel passionate that what's going on in syria is a tragedy of our age. i would like the west to be more engaged but i have to accept that that is not where british public opinion is or british policy is. >>rose: there was real doubt ife congress he would have gotten it passed. >> he understood what thebritisr understood. you have to take your congress with you and there is a stigma, the elected to get america into these wars not out of them. >>rose: somebody either fromsaun which they say you know we question you know whether america's commitment is there. >> well i think we have todemona huge debt to the united states for the global security it provides. i think we have to make sure

that we are engaged with them and i think people like myself who believe that the west should not withdraw, that there shouldn't be strategic shrinkage, we have to make an argument with our own people first that actually it's within our own interest that we shape the world around it, as well as for the greater good of the world. whether it's trying to prevent iran from developing a nuclear weapon or bringing this civil war to an end or what's going on in asia and south china sea, these are issues that concern our world and should concern us. >>rose: you think iran ispreparn p-5 plus 1 agreement that will have them engaged in dismantling

their nuclear facilities? >> i would say let's see, let's. >>rose: you think the interimag? >> yes.the british parliament ia party to it as the american administration. let's test this iranian government. let's test this iranian president. he says he's serious. we've got a plan, it's a six month program where they've got to stop and in some cases shrink the development of their nuclear program. these are sanctions relief that could be easily withdrawn if we could see no progress. what is the alternative charlie? are we saying iran gets a bomb? no. are we going to say we're ready today for military action in iran? we've just been talking about the fact that our publics are skeptical and need persuading on the case of military intervention. i think we should test this

iranian government, let's see if they're serious. i begin with the healthy degree of consistentism about whether we can really land with this iranian government a long-term deal. but i mean healthy skepticism in this sense, i'm prepared to be convinced otherwise, i'm open to the evidence and if they are serious about stopping and in some cases rolling about their program let us take them up on it. >>rose: great to have you here,, being in london and having some conversation with people in your government. >> thank you very much.♪ >> jason furman is leer, he'scht obama's council of economic advisors. five years after, in november more than 200,000 jobs were created at 7% unemployment is at its lowest in over five years.

not everyone is benefiting. the long term unemployed continue to struggle. the central bank will weigh the country's shortcomings and bright spots. i'm pleased to have jason furman here for first time, welcome. >> thank you. >> lets start off with thebudge. >> i think this budget deal isae economy and it's an important step because it gives us more certainty in our fiscal position than we've had for a while. for the next year and a half there's no reason why we should have any shutdowns any type of drama that we have. >>rose: that's important. >> and the money is alsoimporta% of the sequester on the defense side, that means we'll be able to spend more or research, education, everything important for long term growth and we

won't be contracting as much on the short term, that will help jobs and the economy. >>rose: do you believe it's thes effort to deal with the bigger crises we have had terms of -- >> look there's more that thepre done. he would have liked to had business tax reform, investment in infrastructure and preschool, he would have liked to have more medium and long term deficit reduction. but we did create a precedent, the most immediate things that was weighing down our economy, that was taking away some of the funding for research and education we set an important precedent. we can undo some of that in the next year or two with savings that are phased in over the next ten years and we can do that without hitting those third rail entitlement issues. >>rose: we heard from thefinanct

sequestration, how important was sequestration on the national economy? >> i think it was serious, whatt took away 750,000 jobs this year six 6/10 off our growth rate. we are creating them in our opening at an increasing rate in the next couple of months but we would like to fet that rate of -- get that rate of job creaks up. sequester was certainly moving us in the wrong direction. >>rose: do you and the whitehoug negotiations about budget and debt ceilings and all of that have in your mind what is an appropriate reform of entitlements? >> absolutely, charlie.the pres, whether it comes to entitlements -- >>rose: in his budget? >> in his budget.and when it coe

it is the same philosophy brought to the affordable care act too. bring down the total amount you're spending nationally then you can save money for the federal government and also strengthen medicare and some on to seniors. >>rose: what is your own planovr entitlement reform and how far you're prepared to go? obviously that's what negotiation is about but you're simply saying look at the budget and that's where it is? >> it's right in the president't to see it's on taxes too, these two travel together. these are something that he would like to see tax reform including cutting back some of the tax breaks that my income households get, entitlements, go it together, if you can't do that then creating jobs,

addressing inequality, increasing mobility, all of the issues he's been talking about. >>rose: what is the effect onthe had prolonged high levels of unemployment? >> well it's important charliett is coming down about 7/10 a year. you look at the rate pretty carefully and the rate is down to pretty close to where it was before the crisis. the reason it's staying high long term, anything that helps our economy that creates jobs is going to bring that long term unemployment rate down. but that's certainly one of the biggest challenges we face as an economy, as a society. >>rose: how do you measurepeoplf the job market and are not applying for jobs? >> there are a variety of waysts

real, workers who work part time and want a full time job, those measures have come down pretty sharply too. you see an across the board improvement in the labor market, it's just not improved as much as we would like. >>rose: current average hourlywn since 1979, what does that say? >> the first is the overallgrowu know slowed after 1973, as our productivity slowed. the second is, that income inequality started a steep increase starting in the late 1970s so what growth there was, was less evenly distributed and not as much of it got to the middle. you take all of that and you know, you have some very serious

challenges over dates. we have real progress. over the last 12 months, real wages are up nearly one percentage point. that's good news. you've seen inflation remain low but you know one year isn't going to get you out of a problem that was 40 years in the making. >>rose: i asked larry summersanr reported to you what larry said. what happens to people who no longer have unemployment insurance, have no job, have a family? >> well, one thing that we cando is to extend that unemployment insurance. so we can prevent this extra 1.3 million people from being put in that situation you're describing. >>rose: there's also obamacare.t it's going to have on health care expenses. what impact will it have on the deficit?

and what impact will it have on people who have been dependent on the insurance they have? >> i think one of the realuntoly is that in the last three years we've had the slowest growth in real per capita health spending in the last 50 years. and that's just an extraordinary transformation. it's helping our employers at jobs, it's helping our families with their wages, it's helping to make health insurance more affordable. there's a lot of reasons that that's happened, charlie. but one of them is definitely the affordable care act. and that's the way that's affecting all americans in a way they may not observe or understand. >>rose: what happens to the debs now for another ten years? >> you know, we're seeing theden as a share of the economy and as an economist that's what i look for. i want to see is our fiscal

situation sustainable? which means is our debt shrinking and ultimately stabilizing as a share of the economy. in the past ten years that's no longer true. there are some things that we are talking about earlier the president would propose to change that to continue to bring that debt down as a slayer of the economy. >>rose: over ten year. >> but we have a fiscalsituatioo ten years that's greatly improved, from what we can do from revenues of higher income households getting spending under control. >>rose: what are you doing that? >> extending unemploymentinsuran sense, congress has passed it 12 times in the past few years. it borders on a no-brainer and we should just do it.

>>rose: we all know that we livl economy that's dependent or interdependent one way or the other. what happened in 2008 here affected awhat happened in china and all around the world. we got a lot of blame for that as you know as well as anyone how do you see the global economy over the next several years? >> i think you've seen signs of, appears to be coming out of its recession, in terms of its financial system. there's a lot more it needs to do, in strengthening and growth and you've seen that reflected in our exports, our exports have grown a lot more quickly in the last six months than they have for years before that. >>rose: the president says it'su come by for a week?

you go by and he says tell me what is the shame our economy is in and what are the problems and what are the opportunities? what do you tell the president your boss? >> i tell my boss that we wentt. we are healing. we are making progress well but there is a lot more we need to do. and i'd also tell him and these are things charlie he knows really well, he doesn't need to hear them from me, that even when we get out of the problem we had in 2007 and 2008, even when we get out of it, we have those trends that predated this financial crisis, that predate our economy, that slow down in our rate, that is the next challenge for us but the good news is if you invest in education that helps mobility, helps growth, helicopter inequality. there are a lot of steps that we can take that are 1-1 whether it comes to our challenges.

>>rose: including health carean. >> a whole bunch we can do. >>rose: the president seemed tos of what i know and read about him having interviewed him, that this idea of doing something about income inequality is sort of fundamental for him, i think he used that word, it is at his core of what he thinks is such a severe problem with such consequences and we know the impact of poverty on young people. that regardless of what he thought legislatively was possible, he was going to state that ground for his administration. and make a speech that was aspirational in terms of why it was essential to move forward. >> uh-huh, that is exactly whata terrific speech at the arc in washington, d.c. last week,

caught inequality the divining problems of our time. and part of what makes it such a problem is inequality is very highly equated with lack of mobility. the more unequal you are as a country that tends to be associated with the lest mobility you have as a country. i don't think anyone would deny that equality of opportunity is at least at a very minimal level a moral foundation of what it means to be american, and we don't have equality of opportunity today. >>rose: what's the game plan of? raise the minimum wage is one. >> let's give an example.high qa minimal thing you have to be even moving urs i yourself in te right direction. raising the minimum wage. you know charlie minimum wage right now is lower adjusted for

inflation than it was in 1950. 63 years of economic growth, 63 years of across the board wage growth and workers making the minimum wage haven't gotten inflation adjusted wage. that's something we should change. >>rose: how did you learn to be? >> a lot of practice, misspentu. >>rose: you got pretty gooddidn? >> i got pretty good.i used to n park. bowling balls, torches, knives. >>rose: do you still do it orpe? >> for very exclusivegatheringsd to my children's' birthday parties. >>rose: is there some notion ofr something? >> you have to focus, you havetf muscle memory in it too. >>rose: thank you for coming. >> okay, thanks for having me.

>>rose: the great ted williamsss when i walk down the street, folks will say, there goes the greatest hitter that ever lived. that he was. he hit .406, that mark has never been met. williams was known for his quick temper often clashed with fans, teammates, his own family. journalist ben bradlee his new book is called "the kid: the immortal life of ted williams," i'm pleased to have ben bradlee here. what is it that makes ted williams so interesting? >> in his death i was struck byl was in his life. he had been a meaningful figure to me. i had grown up outside boston as

a kid. saw him play the last three, four years of his career. and i remember when he died, the boston globe was filled with letters to the editor. from grandfathers to fathers, to sons. and he was sort of a glue in the social fabric. and he was a meaningful figure to me. and i'm speed reading the earlier books on williams, they were mostly done by adoring sports writers who focused mostly on his exploits in the field. i thought there was room to tell the other parts, much less chronicled parts of his life. growing up in san diego during the depression, the fact that he concealed the fact that he was a

mexican american. no one had known that until just before he died. his service in two wars, his struggles with anger, i thought it was rich. so i dove in. >>rose: i asked him once why hee i was good at it early, the more folks praised me the more i got into it. >> had he a -- he grew up near t was a sal incarceration because his mother was a soldier in the salvation army, who was out to all hours, saving souls, that was her priority. she was never there for ted or his younger brother so he played ball into late in the night. >>rose: what was so appealingabd williams the icon that he

became? >> he was a relinquish charactee than just talent to become an iconic figure, i think. he made as much news off the field as on the field. he struggled with anger, he was able to channel the anger effectively on the ball field. because he liked to say that he hit better angry. but it caused him great problems in his personal life. he was a multi-dimensional figure, i think that's why he was interesting. >>rose: you did about 600interv. >> yes. >>rose: when you get theassessmt is it? >> his baseball talent? >>rose: yes. >> well -- >>rose: hand-eye coordination? >> hand-eye coordination butgret

when people would attribute his skills to simply being a natural. he said bs, i think about hitting and no one has taken more swings than i have. no one has been to the plate as many times as i have so it's work, hard work. >>rose: and he's right.of all te interviewed over 25-plus years, the great ones always say that, you know. and sam sneed who i didn't interview who used to say if he missed a day of practice his game was different. this obsession with almost perfection, know you wouldn't reach it. >> he was a perfectionist,that'. he strove for excellence in anything he undertook. and he was good at a lot of things. not only is he in cooper coopern but in two fishing halls of

fame. he fought in not one war but two. >>rose: four, five seasons -- >> not only did kp duty but hew. i talked to john glen and he said he was one of the best pilots he had ever seen, high praise. >>rose: and there was talk about was that about? >> that was a sad coda towillia. his son john henry whom he reconnected to late in life had gotten interested in something called cr cry i don't i don' crm held by a few thousand people

who believe that at some point medical science will progress to some point where it will be possible to cure you from whatever you died from and they'll somehow be able to bring you back to life. a lot of holes in the theory. they hadn't worked out for example if ted would come back at an 83-year-old man or a stud who could hit 406. so claudio williams, who is the sole surviving son, in the year 2000, about year and a half before he died, johnclaude and claudio went to him, and he was going to have a pacemaker installed. and no surgery for a person of

that age, she said dad we would like to do cryonics, would you do that with us, for us, that's when -- she said they framed it that way, will you do it for us, she says he agreed. my conclusion was that if he did he probably was not of sound mind. and i was able to interview several at least a dozen more people who said that ted told them, after this date, that he wanted to be cremated and have his ashes thrown in the keys where he'd lived and fished and as he specified in hi will -- in his will. >>rose: some of therelationshipy one are world series? >> on'only one world series, ino the cardinals. he hit only .205.

that was one of his big regrets. >> how they were waiting to seed and they spent time at the hay dooms talking. what did they talk about? you would be surprised, they talked about bat size, small points about baseball, what pitchers gave you trouble, what was the size of your bat, different sizes, all that. >> i have a separate chapter inf williams and dimaggio, called ted and joe. they had a lifelong rivalry even after they played. for joe the rivalry was fierce, and for ted it was friendly. they were opposite in all

respects, joe was quiet and toll id,etedmole medical lowed late -- mellowed late in light. joe became more reclusive. ted was more generous to joe than joe, joe sort of disparaged ted privately, how many rings did he have, joe had them there. >>rose: was there any seriousdie greatest hitter of all times? >> sure, these are parlor games, everybody has got their candidate. but i would just assert that no

one -- no one combined, power and average, the way williams did and he still is the all time leader in on-base percentage, at 482, meaning he reached base nearly once out of every two times up. >>rose: right.for statisticians. >> that's good any time. >>rose: and his term as managina good manager? >> not very distinguished.he ca. he got -- he was bored with just fishing. and too early to really retire. and he was such a personality in the game. and so it was good for baseball, that he came back. but he was a one dimensional manager. because the only part of the game that really interested him was hitting. and when he was with the red sox

he thought pitchers were stupid, he would go up tort pitchers and -- to the pitchers and say, you're dumb. that's not the way to build the game. there were parts of the defense, when to send the runner stealing and that didn't interest him much. >>rose: the name of the book"thf ted williams," he cared about the way he looked. >> not only did he want to bego. he carried a bat on his way to school, woe pass a store front and he would take a swing in the reflection of the store front and the merchants inside wondering who is this veinglorious kid outside. >>rose: so he was."the kid: thef ted williams." ben bradlee, thank you. >> pleasure.♪ ♪

>> funding for charlie rose wasd american express. additional funding provided by these funders: additional funding provided by these funders: >> and by bloomberg, a providers

explore new worlds and new ideas through programs like this, made available for everyone through contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. welcome to classical rewind. i'm martin goldsmith, and this is my music. tonight we're going to take you back with some real oldies from the 16th and 17th centuries. we'll meet many of the great masters and tell their stories. i promise you an exhilarating ride. along the way you're likely to hear melodies that you know but perhaps you don't know why. tonight meet the masters, next on pbs. ♪