>> woodruff: today's jobs numbers painted a surprisingly downbeat picture of the u.s. economy. hiring slumped in december and more people stopped looking for work. good evening, i'm judy woodruff. also ahead,a state of emergency has been declared in west virginia, where a chemical spill has contaminated the public water supply. we get the latest from charleston mayor, danny jones. you can't imagine what it is like to not have water to do anything except flush the commodes and put out fires. >> and it's friday, mark

shields and dave brooks are here to analyze the week's news, those are and it's friday, mark shields and david brooks are here to analyze the week's news. those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

the u.s. economy turned in the weakest jobs growth in three years, last month. today's labor department report showed a net gain of just 74,000 jobs in december. the unemployment rate did fall from 7, to 6.7%, largely because many people gave up looking for a job. paul solman will break down the numbers, right after the news summary. wall street had a muted reaction to the jobs report. dow jones industrial avg. down the dow jones industrial average was down slightly, losing 7 points to close at 16,437. 18.48 at 4174.67 the nasdaq rose 18 points to close at 4174. for the week, the dow lost two- tenths of a percent. the nasdaq rose one percent. >> woodruff: that data breach at the target company over the holidays was far worse than first reported. the nation's third largest

retailer said today that up to 110 million customers were affected, well over the initial estimate of 40 million. the latest disclosure includes phone numbers, e-mail and mailing addresses. last month's involved credit and debit card numbers. target says customers won't be liable for any fraudulent charges. >> woodruff: the u.s. house voted overwhelmingly today to set new data security requirements for the president's health care law. the republican bill says enrollees must be notified within two days, if there's a breach involving their personal information. that touched off jousting on the house floor. >> so today house republicans are resorting to scare tactics. they're bringing up a poorly thought out bill based on a false premise that healthcare.gov is not secure. the truth is, i'll say it again, there have been no successful security attacks on healthcare.gov.

>> why wouldn't we take precautions to help people. that's all this bill does. it says if there is a risk of data breach we should afford people opportunity to take corrective action immediately. that's it. there's no message in there. this is just trying to help people. >> woodruff: the bill ultimately passed 291 to 122, with 67 democrats joining the republicans. it is not expected to pass the democratic-controlled senate. the obama administration is changing lead contractors on the healthcare.gov website. medicare/medicaid officials confirmed today that c.g.i federal will not be retained. it oversaw a disastrous rollout of the site in october. the administration plans to hire "accenture" instead. >> woodruff: federal authorities announced an investigation today into a chemical spill that's largely shut down charleston, west virginia.

the spill tainted the elk river and cut off the supply of water for drinking, cooking and bathing. we'll hear from the mayor of charleston, later in the program. >> woodruff: the federal government will recognize more than 1,000 gay marriages performed in utah since late december. attorney general eric holder announced today the same-sex couples are eligible for federal benefits, for now. a federal judge struck down utah's ban on gay marriage in late december. the state is appealing the decision. >> woodruff: the president of afghanistan, hamid karzai, may not sign a deal letting u.s. troops stay there, at least not any time soon. "the washington post" reported today the u.s. ambassador has cabled washington that he doubts karzai will sign before elections in april. that's much later than washington wants, but a state department official said this, today. >> we recognize that at this time it is up to president karzai to determine what it

is in afghan-- afghanistan's best interest, and we continue to work on the grounds with president karzai and his team in encouraging them to sign the bsa. so those efforts remain under way and there should not be any confusion of that. >> woodruff: the agreement would govern any u.s. forces who remain in afghanistan after most foreign troops leave this year. without a deal, the u.s. has warned it will pull out all troops. >> woodruff: a diplomatic storm over the strip search of india's deputy consul general in new york, took a new turn today. an american diplomat was expelled by new delhi, as the indian official was allowed to leave the u.s. she was granted immunity on federal charges that she forced a housekeeper to work more than 100 hours a week for low pay, and lied about it. her arrest and body search last month had outraged indians. >> woodruff: a human rights group reports nearly 500 people died this week in fighting between al-qaeda militants and

other rebel factions. the conflict has spread across four provinces. also today, state media said government forces around homs killed dozens of rebels who tried to break a siege of the city. >> woodruff: a pentagon report today found an ingrained culture of sexism at the nation's military academies. reports of sexual assaults at west point, annapolis and the air force academy actually fell a little, from 80 to 70 in the last year. but, officials said that may be due to peer pressure. >> sexual assault is a crime and has no place in our academies, just as it has no place in our armed forces. the academies are aware we develop the future leaders of the military. that is why it is essential the department instill in its future leaders a commitment to fostering a climate of dignity and respect. in a related development... the superintendent at the naval academy dropped charges against

a second football player accused of sexually assaulting a female classmate last march. trial is pending for a third midshipman in the incident. president obama has tapped a former head of the bank of israel, stanley fischer -- to be vice chairman of the federal reserve. the nominee is currently a professor at m.i.t and holds dual citizenship in the u-s and israel. if confirmed by the senate, fischer will replace janet yellen, who's taking over as fed chair. a civil rights pioneer who helped spark sit-ins across the south, died overnight. in 1960, franklin mccain and three other black college students took seats at a segregated woolworth's lunch counter in greensboro, north carolina. they were denied service, but kept coming back, and the protests spread. in later years, mccain became a research chemist and sales executive. he was 73 years old.

still to come on the "newshour"... today's lackluster jobs report... the chemical spill that led to a water crisis in west virginia. mark shields and david brooks on the week's news... plus, the library of congress's new ambassador of young people's literature. >> woodruff: today's jobs report was surprising, and by most accounts, disappointing. it renewed concerns about the strength of the labor market during this recovery. newshour economics correspondent paul solman begins a two-part look, part of his ongoing reporting: "making sense" of financial news. >> reporter: when it came to jobs, 2013 ended with a whimper. according to the labor department's survey of employer, december saw the lowest monthly gain in three years. >> it was a stunning report but not in a good way.

>> reporter: former labor department chief economist lisa lynch. >> the economy only added a little over 70,000 jobs and there were whispers of 300,000 jobs being added to the economy. the unemployment rate dropped, that's usually good news, but it dropped for all the wrong reasons. it dropped because people dropped out of the labor force >> reporter: is this the latest example of what we've been calling for a decade now the jobless recovery? >> i think its always important to not get too carried away with any one months report so we also saw in today's report upward revisions in the employment numbers for last month, in november. over the course of the year were adding 182,000 jobs a month, that's the monthly average and keeping pace with the pace of growth in the population, making a small dent into the pool of the unemployed but not at the pace anyone would like to see. >> reporter: as to the specific industries, 6,000 jobs were cut

that's the first decline in ten years. another sector taking a pounding construction which shrank by 16,000 positions. but mother nature may have been a factor there. >> the low employment numbers we saw in this months report may be partially explained by cold weather in early december that kept people from their jobs. especially in the construction industry. >> reporter: the official unemployment rate, however, based on a survey of households, fell from 7% to 6.7%. but the drop seems largely because people left the workforce and were no longer counted as unemployed. >> people are counted as unemployed in the official survey if they are available for work and have looked for work over the past month. but if they're available to work, but they've stopped looking,

they've stopped looking, they're no longer counted as unemployed. but the labor department does ask a question, "are you interested in work?" but you've stopped looking because there don't seem to be possibilities out there for you. and people answer that, and over 900,000 people last month said they wanted to work, but they were discouraged because they didn't see employment possibilities in their community >> reporter: in fact, the portion of the population now working or looking for work is smaller than it's been in decades, says lynch. >> the labor force participation rate is now at the lowest level we've seen since 1978. >> reporter: what's going on? >> some people are delaying entry into the labor market, because they're in school. part of it is also driven by people who are close to retirement who are having difficulty finding alternative employment, and are dropping out, or just frankly have sufficient income and are retiring and no longer looking for work. the troubling component of the fallen labor force participation is the fall for people in their

prime working years. and there we see larger decreases in labor force participation for both men and women >> reporter: moreover, even of those who haven't given up their job search, nearly four million reported in december that they'd been looking for six months or more, that four million total essentially hasn't budged since late summer. all of this comes amidst the battle in washington over whether to extend unemployment benefits for those long-term unemployed. senate democrats have scheduled a monday vote on the extension. the law allowing for the program expired last month. it's unclear whether the measure will garner enough republican support to pass. >> woodruff: some further perspective now on the questions raised by this report, particularly on this critical issue of workers leaving the job market. our guests are both economists, dean baker is co-director of the center for economic and policy

research, and robert shapiro is the co-founder and chairman of sonecon, an economic advisory firm. we welcome you both back to the program. >> pleasure to be here. >> thank you. >> woodruff: so dean baker to you first, what stands out to you mainly in this report for december? >> well, i guess there were two things. one looking at the household survey, the big fall in the number of people in the labor force, that was pronounced really across-the-board but manage african-americans with the lowest rate of labor force participation among african-american men since we've kept that count. so that was really striking. and then on the establishment side as lizza had said, people were expecting as many as 300,000 jobs, just to see 75,000. that was certainly a very weak number. so to see two independent surveys both showing weakness same month, that indicates, i think, the labor market is certainly weaker than most people had perceived. >> woodruff: robert shabiro, do you see it as weak as dean baker does? >> well, the fact is the labor markets had been weak

for a decade. we keep on comparing what's happening today to our memories of job creation in the 80s and 90s. the fact is, job creation is doing significantly better in this expansion than it did in the 2002-2007 expansion. but both of them are very weak by historic standards. this weakness is continued but there is, it is easy to misinterpret some of these numbers. >> it sounds like you're saying this is being judged against the wrong standard, is that what you're saying? >> well, i'm saying that there are a lot of factors entering into this. one of them we talk about the decline in the labor participation rate. that is driven mainly by demographics. this is the unwinding of the enormous increase in the labor participation rate. we saw with the boomers. who are not only an unusually large generation, but for whom women

participated, went into the labor force in much larger numbers and shares than historically. that drove up the labor participation rate 10%. and the decline in the labor participation rate begins in 2009 which is just when the boomers begin to retire. >> woodruff: are beginning to retire. dean baker, so what about that. he says demographics. >> first in comparison the proper comparison is another severe downturn. we lost around 9 million jobs, you expect to quick jump back, and we didn't see that, so you compare that to '81, 28, so there, it is easy to see the big falloff among prij age workers 25 to 54 years old is down by four full percentage points, equivalent to 5 million people income prime ages they are to the retiring at age 50. >> woodruff: you are saying these are to the baby boomers. >> these are bottom end. >> woodruff: the younger, not the older end. >> too young to retire within the fact of the matter is that the peak of

the baby boom comes from 1949 to 1957. that's the highest birth rates. those people are now 57 to 65. the first boomers began to retire in 2000. this is an unwinding of an increase in the labor participation rate, on top of a terrible financial crisis. and a decade long slowdown in the rate of job creation. you know, one of the other facts in this report that helps explain this sharp drop in the unemployment rate despite the fact we only created 74,000 jobs is that layoffs fell as well by 3 vi 0,000. >> woodruff: which you're say saying good point. let's pick that up one more time. just to look at the age cohort, you know, he's basically saying this was a

decade when people who were just ageing to the point where it was time for them to get out of the workforce. >> again, we can see if doesn't explain it because we have separate data on people 25 to 54. those people are leaving the labor force, we're down 5 million jobs among that group of people. these are not people retiring. that can't explain it i understand about the baby boomers aging being one of them. as i think rob is alsoing you know, we're agingment but we're still in the labor force that doesn't explain the loss of -- >> you missed the point. text plains about half of it. and so this necessary that this is all about a particular economic problem is only half true. but it does explain about half of the decline in labor participation. >> woodruff: how does the age of people who are stepping out of the workforce whether it's because they have to or because they want to, how does that affect the economy? >> it's a good question. you know, we've actually seen people staying in the workforce longer. actually the people had big job gainers, if you go back, this is a little different

than last year. the people as big job gainers in the age group of 55 and older so people were actually staying in the workforce longer than previously. that's still true except increase isn't as much as it had been. there is a big question, i don't think it's resolved as to whether when people stay in the workforce that it's pulling in younger people by being complements. an older worker training a younger worker or weather a substitute. i think it has to be a bit of both. the question is how does it come out on balance. >> woodruff: step backing look at these numbers, what are you most optimistic abouting hadding at this. you have been talking about that, and what worried you? >> well, the best news in this was the continued sharp decline in the number of layoffs. this is something we usually see at an earlier point in an expansion. it's come later because this expansion is different in many ways from a typical expansion. and what is certainly most troubling is what dean has

noted and that is the low number of new jobs being created and the problems for people in their 40s and in particular in the labor. >> you want to put a button on that quickly. >> we would like to see everyone benefitting from growth and we're not seeing that. we see a severe shortage of jobs and wages are going nowhere. so we've had a whole decade where most workers are seeing none of the benefits of economic growth, not a good story. >> all right, we thank you both, dean baker, robert schapiro. maybe next month will be better. >> let's hope so. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and we have much more online, including "the solomon scale," paul solomon's own calculation of the unemployment rate, plus economists weigh in with a look at the unemployment trends across last year and for the future. >> woodruff: hundreds of thousands of citizens in west virginia are heading into the weekend dealing with a major

water emergency caused by a chemical spill. even as it's disrupting lives, officials are still trying to get a handle on just what happened. hari sreenivasan has the story. >> reporter: ground zero is this freedom industries plant that makes chemicals for the mining, steel and cement industries. state inspectors say a foaming agent used in coal preparation leaked from a 40,000 gallon tank yesterday. some of it overran a containment area, and ended up in the elk river. an estimated 300,000 people are affected in nine counties, many of them reporting a smell like black licorice. emergency hotline centers like this one are fielding calls. >> we've had some complaints about eyes burning, things of that nature. best advice is to stay inside right now until they get this taken care of. >> reporter: for now, people are

being told to avoid using tap water to bathe, drink, cook or wash clothes and dishes. jeff mcintyre heads the charleston water treatment plant. he says the chemical is not especially toxic, but it's not worth taking a chance. >> we don't know that the water is not safe. but i can't say that it is safe. >> reporter: testing shows contamination levels in the river are already falling, but mcintyre says it's too early to say how long it will take to clean the water system. >> our activities will be to go away from the treatment plant in concentric rings if you like, flush the system and sample the system to make sure it's safe for our customers. we may be able to put customers back in service by zones. i don't think we'll be able to do it, the entire area, all at once so it's going to be chasing the line as the water flows and testing and flushing as we go. >> reporter: for its part, freedom industries says its working nonstop to contain the leak and determine how much of the chemical got into the river.

in the meantime, bottled water and bags of ice have been flying off store shelves. >> this is actually the third place i've been to, trying to get water, so i've resorted to ice. >> you're going to melt this down. that's what you are going to do like they did back in them old days. put them in a little tub and just take, you know, like a bird bath. >> reporter: president obama has declared a federal disaster in the affected region, expediting aid. and federal prosecutors have launched an investigation. we get the latest on the situation now, and how people are coping with it, from charleston's mayor, danny jones. >> and thanks for joining us, what is the latest that you're hearing now about the efforts to contain this spill? >> well, we know basically what we were told at the press conference this morning. and we are at the mercy of the principalled involved painly west virginiaian american water company because they are probably going to be decides when they feel like it's safe for people to bathe and to drink

the water. and you can't imagine what it's like to live in one of the nine counties affected in west virginia, or in my home town of charleston, west virginia which is the urban part of that area. what it's like to not have any water to do anything except for flush commodes and put out fires. >> the governor says he doesn't know the details. the company in some ways hasn't said exactly how much has spilled out into the river. when do they have any expectation of when they'll know more? >> and that was my question this morning at the press conference. and there is no time line. there is no answer as to when the citizens of this valley and all these nine counties can effect this nightmare to end. and it is devastated this area in a way which is inscribable. everything is closing. and that means the mayor yott hotel, that means our town center mall, no restaurant is allowed to open because you can't legally open without water.

and it's been devastating for our area. people are in their homes. the schools are closed. you're not supposed to take showers. and certainly not supposed to drink the tap water. and we are distributing water out of a few of our fire stations, bottled water. and the west virginiaian american water has had truckloads of water to come in to try to distribute water to citizens so they'll have something to drink. >> we heard that there's almost a smell of black licorice either in the air or of the water. have you meled it, you have tasted it. >> i smelled it yesterday when a gentleman from the office across the street came over to my office to get me. he knew me and he took me across the street and i smelled it when i got outside. hi been inside for that afternoon. and then he, i went up to his water fountain and then i tasted it. and i took a big drink of it an i knew that there was

something very wrong. and it was not much longer after that that the west virginia water company and the governor and all those folks held a press conference. it wasn't the governor's press conference. he was just happened to have been there but it was the american water company and they have nothing but bad news for these citizens. and with no end in sight. >> so have you heard of any of the possible health side effects? are there clinics or hospitals reporting any adverse affects to people having drank this water? >> no, we have not heard anything like that. and which is good news. but it also means we really don't know what we're dealing with. if there are outbreaks of any kind of reaction to this, i have not been informed of it. and i think if it had happened in charleston i think i would have been informed of it. we're just told what not to do. >> what are the contingency plans going forward. now you know you have this corporate citizen in your backyard, what kind of plans were there, what kind of

plans do you hope there are if something like this ever happens against. >> in you're talking about the chemical company, that company is not in the city of charleston. they are about a quarter mile down the elk river which is outside of our city limits. we believe that they have three tanks up there, one of them leaked. and the chemical went through-- leaked through the wall and out into the elk river. we believe that is what happened. so i think that any chance of that happening again would be nil because of precautions that will be taken. but this doesn't help us out of the mess that we're in right now. and -- >> all the questions about -- >> technicallities and about why weren't we notified when, i'll be glad to try to answer that. but that doesn't-- we are preoccupied with getting back to normal lifestyle with water to bathe in and tap water to drink and to prepare food with. >> what dow want the company to be able to do in the next

day or two? >> i want west virginia american water to fix this. and i realize it's the chemical company's fault. but west virginia water, west virginiaian american water has 40,000 miles of line that they run water through. and that, that goes out to a lot of people. and we want them to take advantage of whatever technology is out there and fix this. and i believe that it must exist in this day and age that they can fix this and allow these people to get back to normal. >> all right, mayor danny jones of charleston, west virginia, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you. >> woodruff: the president of the violence stricken central african republic resigned today, after mounting pressure from regional leaders for failing to stop the country's slide toward

anarchy and sectarian bloodshed. the rebel leader, michel djotodia seized control of the country nine months ago, bringing a muslim rebel movement to power, one blamed for looting, kidnapping and killing. in december, a christian militia attacked the capital and the fighting has only escalated, leaving more than 1,000 dead and nearly a million people forced to flee their homes in fear. we have this on-the-ground report on reaction to the resignation from alex thompson of independent television news. >> reporter: from the first light, they knew today was going to be their day. at first, small groups on the street trying to block them, but there was no menace here. at least at this stage. french soldiers politely suggesting they allow one carriage-way clear for the traffic. then more and more and bursting

into the national anthem. they sing of dignity and brotherhood, the christian silent majority here, voicing their hatred of the president they blame for siding with the muslim minority. "djotodia resign, djotodia resign," they chant. >> ( translated ): before midday, he must go. before mid-day he must resign. all central african people demand this. if he doesn't, we'll go to the airport and occupy for the rest of our lives. >> reporter: so, we ask, if he resigns, will it be peace? that'll be a yes, then. for the moment, the french soldiers here can do little more

than advise people not to go down this road. this is one of the key interfaces in this city. if the demonstrators proceed down this road, they'll go into a predominantly muslim area. so far, we have a balance of euphoria. they're singing their song again, as you hear. but also, deep and profound anger. >> reporter: you wave branches here at someone's funeral to recognize they've passed on. in this case, president djotodia's passed on. >> ( translated ): we don't want the resignation to come from us. it was france who colonized us. they are the ones who brought the president to power. we don't want djotodia in power. >> including here, the scarf and horns, anything will do when it comes to protecting yourself in battle. they shout, watch out muslim fighters, the christian militias are back.

and they are. hundreds of christian militia gathering with spears, daggers and they said they'd block the runway if the president didn't go. now president djotodia has gone, and african peacekeepers spread themselves as widely as they can in this situation. nobody knows how the muslim and christian militias will respond. the french keep watch at ground level. heavy machine guns in place now. rather larger guns out by the airport, a place, the departed president may never see again. >> woodruff: and to the analysis of shields and brooks. that's syndicated columnist mark shields and new york times columnist david brooks. welcome, gentlemen. friday. so let's start with the spec tack nell new jersey, republican governor chris

christie in hot water over apparently, mark, deliberately arranged traffic jam done in retribution for political enemies, people who didn't vote for him. what-- what do you make of this? why is it getting so much attention? >> it's getting so much attention because he is the de facto front run never many people's minds for the republican nomination. certainly democrats seem most foremidable potential nominee at this point in 2016 on the republican side. but judy, this is a story that plays to his greatest strength and becomes his greatest vulnerability in my sense. chris christie crystallized as a national figure august 26th, 2011. he stood on the beach as hurricane irene thundered down upon the jersey shore. and there were some sunbathers who refused to go. >> woodruff: sur cane sandy.

>> no, hurricane irenez this is 2011. >> they refuse to leave despite the warnings, and chris chris-year want on television and said get the hell off the beach. get out, get in your car, the sun is down, it's 4:30, get all the tan you have got. it was one of those moments that was just so real. and thises with what he was. he was a no-nonsense guy. he was a take charge, i'm in control guy, roll up your sleeves. and this, the only defense he has is he was detached. he was disengaged. he didn't know. and instead of the naturalness of that language, his language yesterday in the press conference was that-of-the victim. you know, that he was betrayed by those whom he trusted. and yet he didn't once express real genuine, authentic chris christie concern for the people whose lives were really disrupted. i mean thousands of people miss add point. s, who missed funerals, who missed business

opportunities, who missed the chance to get their kids to school. and it was a lousy act. and it was a ruth its act. this isn't hardball politics where you take david's pet project and don't fund it this is dislocated thousands of people in a cheap political trick. and he didn't know about t the people he trusted most, brought in, and he was unkur quus b i think it rails serious questions about him and the most important thing is that nobody has come to his defense, nobody. i mean republicans haven't come to his defense. and democrats are happy to see him stew right now. >> woodruff: raises serious questions? >> here i come, here i come to his defense. no, some of that i agree with. he should have expressed more regret about the people who were indid-- inconvenienced it should be said also the level of small minded pet lens in politics is never to be underestimated. people do nasty cheap stuff because they are caught up in small minded politicalness of it. as having said that, though, i thought christie did

reasonably well. i thought -- >> at the news conference. >> at the news conference. if he knew about what was happening at the time, his career was really damaged. but so far there has been no evidence that he did that. >> because he denied. >> flatly denied. if an e-mail comes out showing he knew, then he is in deep trouble. so far i thought he expressed naturalness. he expressed humiliation. he walked us through in intimate detail how he found out, how he fired the people it was christie, my friend mike murphy, the political consultant said the essence of christie is he does not come in small doses. he comes in big doses. and the challenge for christie as a candidate has always been will he accept somebody that comes on that strong. but if he comes on that strong as even a little bit of a bully which is sort of what he looks like in this, he could be the people want a bully to go to washington. if they're going to vote for christie, they don't want a charmer. they want a big bully. and this will not hurt him, i think. i think some politicians would be hurt by this kind of scandal. he will not be hurt because his image as a big, tough,

bully that is what you are hiring him for if you are going to lech him president so this is consistent with this image. >> you don't want the president who is a bully. you want a president who is strong. you want a president who can impose his will upon congress. you want a president who can lead, is not afraid to make tough decisions, you don't want a bully. chris chris-year has been every man up until now. now at this point, he has become somebody who is so uncurious about what is going on. he was the last person in the entire governor's office to find out about this? add to this the other problem that he's going to have, is that 2012 he was one of the finalists with paul ryan to be the republican nominee for vice president. he was passed over. and when somebody is passed over, there is always questions. there were stories out of the romney campaign, many spoke on the record, that it was his entourage, overbearing, demands for the private jet, demands of the big support system, impossible, divas to deal with. and all this. this plays right into that. and if he found out at 8:55

on wednesday morning that this was happening, and this is a story that has been brewing now for two months, you know, i just think it really confounds anybody's believability. >> well, first-- . >> woodruff: you are saying you don't believe -- >> i don't-- it's next to impossible. i can't believe anybody could be so cronically, terminally uncurious about something that affects his career as well as his governorship, let alone his presidential ambition. >> well, it could be that he was lied to. it's also, it seems to me true, it's rare that a scandal, especially in the a major scandal, knocks out a candidate, bill clinton, gennifer no we people are reasonably scandal tolerant, as to mark's point as to whether it should be a bully. i think in normal times this is true. but now we're living in a time of incredible distrust of washington. distrust of politics. i think the standards are a little different, in times of high distrust maybe you want somebody, and this has happened through history, and even in israel, bebe netanyahu, a little rough guy, people pick the rough

guy when they're really fed up. >> what is the knock, just-- what is the knock on barack obama? a close, tightly nit staff of ultra loyalists don't seek outside advice, don't go beyond that circle, detached and disengaged. sound familiar? to the chris christie motor. >> the diva thing i totally get. i totally agree with that, if the diva thing is a problem, he is a diva than that will hurt him. but he doesn't remind people of barack obama. >> but his defense is that he was detached and disengaged. he didn't know what was going on. >> okay. >> woodruff: all right, well, speaking of president obama, he was the, i guess you could say, victim certainly, the victim of criticism in the book that came out in the last few days by former defense secretary robert gates. he has clearly broken a little bit of china with this book. it 1600 pages. i confess, i have to the read the entire thing. i will be talking to secretary gates next tuesday. but just in a situation like this, david, where a former official comes out and says, among other things, that the president didn't believe in

the war in afghanistan and didn't trust the general s this the kind of thing that ends up hurting the president? does it shall did -- what is the last thing-- lasting affect of something like this? >> his defense is that he was skeptical of the afghan surge and maybe skepticism was well justified because it was widely determined it didn't work so well. and so he was skeptical. and then the criticism of it, he sent young men and women into harm away, not really believing in it and the argument should be if you don't totally believe in a military mission as president of the united states, you should not do it. and my understanding at the time and i had a lot of direct reporting at the time, my firm conviction then was the president was not fully behind the surge. that he had completely understood and in many ways was very sympathetic to the arguments against it, why he did, i really don't know. maybe he wanted to give it a shot. maybe he thought it would work. but i certainly, the central charge that he was not fully supportive of the afghan surge rings completely true to my memory of reporting at that time. >> i think from everything, and i have not read the book

but everything i have read about the book and excerpts from it, it is quite nuanced. i mean yes, this is a-- . >> woodruff: more than just criticism. >> it calls the most deliberative president he's ever been around. his gutsy decision maker, i mean he really is quite full of praise. never made a political decision that, you know, that he was really, the consequences of the formulation of the campaign of 2008 came back to haunt the president. the consequences mr. the formulation, that iraq was a bad war, afghanistan was a good war. and so you come to office and you've got to support the good war and wind down the bad war. and i don't think there's any question that that happened. and but at the same time, to me there are two questions. the serious thing that he says in the book and i think it's true of not just this administration, we had the campaign in 2012 when none before had even been

anywhere near military service. and there is a skepticism and distrust of the military thinking they want to go to war. they don't want to go to war. people who have been to war don't want to go to war. that's the first thing. and the second thing, i'll leave to david. taking too much time. >> well, we'll go read the book and talk about it again. but the last thing i do want to ask the two of you about is we observed the 50th anniversary this week of the war on poverty, what president lyndon johnson announced in 1964. david, looking back on it, big question, i want to ask you if it's been a success. and i mean that because right now you've got this big debate under way between democrats and among democrats and republicans about whether the whole, the apparatus that was established to fight poverty has been a total failure-- failure and should be torn up and we should start from scratch with

something else wms i'm still in shock mark is giving me time. >> woodruff: and i'm giving you some time too. >> i would not say it was a total failure and i'm a skeptic of it. there were programs that were clearly successful. the food stamp program. there were programs that were successful but they just got the costs wrong, medicare so they estimated what medicare would cost, they were off by huge factors. there were some programs that could have been successful but they were poorly executed. i think head start. so you have a bunch of programs that they tried all at once which had some modest effect but not the effect he wanted and a lot of negative effects. and right after the great society program there was a tremendous decay in our social fabric, tremendous rise in crime, and i would say they emphasized the economic parts of poverty. they did not emphasize and they misunderstood some of the social capital effects. and they had unintended negative consequences so i would say mixed blessing. i would lean more on the skpt call side, that it was more of a failure than a success. >> the biggest criminal act in the last 50 years is

committed by people who had nothing to do with oe, o, poverty program, done by people on wall street and the country is still reeling and paying for it i think, judy, that it's been a very great success if you happen to be over the age of 60 in this country. the reduced poverty among those over 65 from 35% of the population down to 9. 99% of people over 65 have medical care now. they didn't-- and children, the studies now show people want through head start, graduating from high school and going on to college at a higher rate than those who didn't. i agree that it hasn't been an unvarnished success. but i just point out this. the difference is in large part, people over 65 have very formidable lobbies and they vote. and kids don't. and i do think the recompassion of it by the president, i encouraged republicans to participate in that dialogue. it's important. i think the pope deserves credit for putting it on the agenda and i think we are

addressing poverty. it's something that all we talked about in 2012 was the middle class, the middle classment now we are at least addressing a reality. >> but you are saying children have been left out. children have not benefitted to the degree that those over 60 have who have done very well. >> well, i agree with that. we did reduce the poverty by making the government a giant transfer machine from young families to the elderly. just one thing on poverty and republicans. marco rubbio had a speech today, this week which is i thought was a quite impressive speech, much more using the power of government to address poverty problems whether it's wage subsidies, whether it's through direct grants, much for a party that has become instinctively anti-government, we beginning to see paul ryan and marco rubbio and some others wanting to affirmatively use government i think in targeted but limited and affirmative ways to address practical problems. >> woodruff: we don't have time to talk about that, unless you can do it in one word, two words. >> david is not completely right. >> woodruff: okay.

promise to let you finish that thought later, mark shields, david brooks, thank you both. >> woodruff: finally tonight, author kate dicamillo today became the newest "national ambassador for young people's literature", a post created by the library of congress in 2008 to promote literature for children. jeffrey brown talked with her earlier this week. >> brown: kate dicamillo says she was the shyest child in the world, the kind of kid who wouldn't say boo to a goose. well, she found her voice as a writer of stories for young people, among her best selling books are because of win dixie, the-- and newberry award binning tale of des per auction. she will spend the neck two years as author and ambassador for stories and reading. she lives in minneapolis and joins us from there congratulations to you and it's nice to talk to you

again. >> well, thank you very much for being willing to talk to me. let's talk books. >> brown: so the shyest child in the world becomes a national ambassador. how did that happen? >> well, i know there's a really rich irony in that, isn't there. and i am not exage-- well, i do tend to exaggerate, i'm a story teller, but really i was just like f hi a dime forevery time an adult said cat got your tongue, you know, and my mother was a very outgoing person. and she could never believe that i couldn't run into the store and ask somebody some kind of question. so how did i end up here. i ended up mere by telling stories. and telling stories helped me conduct with the world and it turned me into somebody who can talk to people, i think. i don't know. i'm doing a pretty good job talking to you. >> brown: you are. so tell us how you see this role and what you plan?

is it-- do you start off thinking that there is a problem that you need to address? a problem of young people and reading? >>. >> i want to remind people, i don't want to think about it as a problem. i want to remind people of the great and profound joy that can be found in stories. and that stories can connect us to each other. and that reading together changes everybody involved. so i am not coming at it from a problem angle, i'm coming at it from a celebration angle. that's how i would like to think of it. >> woodruff: what books did that for you? brought you out of the shell you were talking about? >> well, one of them and i was a kid who loved to read, and also a kid who was lucky enough to, i had a mom that read to me all the time. island of the blue dolphins by scott o'dell had a huge

impact on me. harriet the spy, louise fitshu erck. i remember my mother reading me beverly cleary's ribsy, all of those books kind of did that thing of connecting me to myself and connecting me to the world and connecting me to the people around me. so that is kind of the message that i want to carry out into the world, that's what i hope to do. >> woodruff: . >> brown: and do you think of-- is reading reading or does it matter what young people are reading. i'm thinking about some of the books that gain tremendous currency like the hunger games now, and other ones you can think of at different times. do you think just whatever they are reading is good or do you think there are certain things are more nourishing than others? >> well, i'm to the going to make judgements about what people are reading. i just want them to be reading. and i think reading one book leads to another book. so i am just going to celebrate the whole ball of wax.

i just want people, i also want people to know that this is, you know, that kid's books can be for adults as well there are a lot of different ways to connect to a story. and i think harry potter has actually gone along with a to convincing people that adults can read kid books. but i would like to just bring more people into the room. >> suarez: the other-- . >> brown: the other thing that becomes part of this conversation of course, these days, is technology. and that sort of competition for the young people's attention. do you think of all these things, the, you know, whether it's video games or tablets, do you think of them as the enemy or is there a way to make them friends? how do you think about it? >> i think that it's a matter of balance and moderation. and i think that my role here is just to remind everybody of the power of the story. and it can be just as

entertaining and engaging as a video game. so again, i'm not going to say no, don't do that. but rather remember story. and story is what makes us human in a way. so i just, i'm here to say story can be a powerful thing. >> brown: i remember when we first talked and that was ten years ago when you won the new berry award. but you came to writing late yourself, right th was not, you weren't a natural you just sort of came into it. >> no, i'm not a natural. i'm a late bloomer. and i feel so forth national to have ended up where i've ended up as somebody who gets to tell stories for a living. but i didn't start writing until i was almost 30 years old. and i didn't get published until i was 36 or 37. so but it was something that i always knew that i wanted to do. and i finally sat down and

started trying to do it. so hey, let's hear it for all the late bloomers and for dreams coming true, right. >> and i think i read that, this is a little hard for me to believe but maybe you can tell me, you received 450 rejection letters before anyone agreed to publish you? >> i wish that i could tell you that that is erroneous but it is not. i kept a notebook where i kept track of everything, where i sent it, when it came back, so that is the case. so i sent stories out for six years before anything happened. and when i go and i talk to kids, i go imagine if i had given up at like the rejection letter, you know, 200, i wouldn't be here. so if there is any message that i can give them in that respect it's, you know, persistent-- persistence and not giving up on your dream. >> all right, kate dicamillo, congratulations again, and

good luck on your new role, the national ambassador for young people's literature, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: again, the major developments of the day: the economy added just 74,000 jobs in december, the smallest number in three years. unemployment fell slightly as more people stopped hunting work. target announced it's data breach over the holidays may affect up to 110 million customers, far more than first estimated. charleston, west virginia was largely shut down after a chemical leak tainted the water supply. and former white house press secretary larry speakes, who served under president reagan, died at the age of 74. on the newshour online right now, think you found a masterpiece at a flea market? a treasure hunter who says she purchased a renorir painting for seven dollars in 2009 was

ordered to return the piece of art to a baltimore museum where it had been stolen back in 1951. all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org. >> woodruff: and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill is preparing for "washington week", which airs later this evening. here's a preview: >> ifill: chris christie stumbles, robert gates tells-all, plus capitol hill tackles a subject they normally sidestep. long-term unemployment and poverty. why now, we'll tackle it all tonight on washington week. judy? on tomorrows edition of pbs newshour weekend, correspondent william brangham looks at germany's push to reconcile it's nazi past. and a quick editor's phot before we go.

in our report on wednesday on investing in infrastructure, i mispronounced the skaj-it river. and we should have said the i-35 bridge that collapsed in 2007 connects two areas of minneapolis. when we make a mistake, we want to set it straight! that's the newshour for tonight, i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you and goodnight. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us.

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and. >> and now, >> this is bbcs." world news america. forbrations on the streets the central african republic after the president resigned. will it do anything to stop the fighting? the fresh -- the french president threatens a lawsuit after a magazine publishes details of an alleged affair. a new exhibit features findings on mars. welcome to our viewers on public television in america and also around the globe. the day after weeks of sectarian violence, the president of the central african republic dramatically resigned leaving the countr