>> rose: welcome to the program, tonight, david sand of "the new york times" on new nsa technologies and capabilities. >> well, the fact that the nsa targets computers around the world is not a surprise to anybody, and they target all digital communications, but we learned and you and i have discussed it at some length during the attacks on iran's nuclear program that they also have the capability to get into a computer system that is completely walled off from the internet, because any intelligence agency, any company, any criminal group that really wanted to try to have 100 percent assurance they are not being watched or they are not going to get hit by some kind of cyber weapon would first disconnect their computers from the outside world. so the big challenge to the nsa, charlie, always has been what do

you do about these computers that are separated from the internet which probably have the data the nsa is most interested in. >> rose: we continue this evening with sir james dyson, the inventor and engineer, you may know him because of the dyson vacuum cleaner. >> i can guarantee the point we start at is simply unrecognizable by the time of the finished product and that is the whole point about invention, invention is something that couldn't have been devised by one skilled in the art. so it is a process of discovery of accident, happen chance, it is the most wonderful journey. >> rose: we conclude with adam gopnik of the new yorker magazine on the president of france's private life. >> france is not a puritanical society as britain and we are to some degree still, which is not to say it is not an immoarl society, it comes from a different, that is catholic and tolerant in different ways, i have lived in france for a long

time and my general sense is that the french attitude about sex in privacy is, why? when it cocomes to sex with children by force is wrong, and unacceptable and everything else is the human comedy unfolding as the human comedy always will. so in that sense i think that they do have a very different attitude, they certainly think that there should be some area of your life reserved for yourself, that you don't have to share everything with the world in order to be a public person. >> rose: sanger, dyson, gopnik, coming up. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. >> there is a saying around here, you stand behind what you say. around here, you don't make any excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own them and make it

right. some people think that kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places it is needed most but i know you will still find it when you know where to look. >> rose: additional funding provided by these funders. >> >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> i have confidence in the fact that the nsa is not engaging in

domestic surveillance or snooping around but i also recognize that as technologies change and people can start running algorithms and programs that map out all the information that we are downloading on a daily basis into our telephones and computers that we may have to refine this further to give people more confidence. >> rose: we begin this evening with the latest revelations on the national security agency, president obama will address the nation on nsa reform this friday. he is expected to strike a balance between privacy concerns and national security, edward snowden's leaks have revealed an extensive surveillance program, the new york times reports today that the nsa has been using a secret technology that allows it to hack into computers not connected to the internet. joining me from washington, david sanger, he cowrote the article, he is national security correspondent of "the new york times" and the author of confront and conceal. welcome, david, great to have you here. >> great to be back with you, charlie. >> rose: i will read the first paragraph written by you and tom sanger. the national security agency has implanted software in nearly

100,000 computers around the world that allow the united states to conduct surveillance on those machines and can also create a digital highway for launching cyber attacks. that is one powerful opening statement. tell me about it. >> well, the fact that the nsa targets computers around the world is not a surprise to anybody, and they target all digital communications, but we learned and you and i have discussed it at some length during the attacks on iran's nuclear program that they also have the capability to get into a computer system that is completely walled off from the internet, because any intelligence agency, any company, any criminal group that really wanted to try to have 100 percent assurance that they are not being watched or they are not going to get hit by some kind of cyber weapon would first

disconnect their computers from the outside world. so the big challenge to the nsa, charlie, always has been what do you do about these computers that are separated from the internet which probably have the data the nsa is most interested in? and during the reporting on olympic games, the operation against iran's nuclear enrichment program i got a sense that the nsa was well down that road, because we knew that those computers had been separated out from the internet and yet they were hit in any event. and there were a couple of details i learned along the way that were withheld at the request of the government because they use these for operational purposes but then spiegel the national newsmagazine published a number of documents a few weeks ago that basically revealed the degree to which the nsa has designed small devices that can do a radio transmission up to eight miles away to an nsa relay

station that would allow the nsa not only to download all the data in a computer but insert new packets of data to attack it. >> rose: what do they have to do to get there to have that ability? >> well, it is not easy and through the nsa the easiest thing to do is attack a network computer because you can just get into those big optical telephone connections that are across the pacific and the atlantic where you can get into some kind of regional network, but for unnetworked computers you need to either implant a small radio frequency device that can broadcast over a covert channel before that computer gets to the hands of your target or you need to put in place, say, a little thumb drive, a usb that has this circuitry built into it and one of the documents showed a project called cottonmouth, which is, in fact, small usb devices that have this great transmission capability hidden deeply inside.

once that plugged in, then the nsa has got a way into the machine, even if there is no connection to the internet. i knew that, from my reporting on that case that the iranians had thought they were disconnecting and still the nsa was mapping out all of the connections between their computers and the centrifuges and then designing an attack to fit it. the question was how did they do that transmission back and forth? were they waiting for a human being to walk a usb back and forth or was there another methodology? these revelations, these designs most of which date to 2008 just as the olympic games project was getting going would strongly suggest that iran was sort of the test case for making this technology work. >> rose: did edward snowden have anything to do with understanding how far nsa is on this particular area? >> well, he did, because the

documents that spiegel published and some other documents that appeared in a dutch newspaper came from the snoapd archive, but mr. snowden had so much data that he left his job in hawaii as an nsa consultant with this in hand. i don't know how much of it he had time to actually go through or how much of these programs he actually understood. >> rose: where is the united states today in their assessment of edward snowden and what he may still have and what damage he may still do? >> well, we only know that the limited public comments that some nsa officials have made, some on 60 minutes, some to some other reporter, and they seem to believe that there is a lot more data out there that he has not yet released. now, the information i work from, from the snowden drove actually ha has been out on the

internet for a couple of weeks since it was published in various places .. but it was information you have to sort of look at and know what you are looking for because of the history of the iran project and some others in order to piece together some elements of it, but spiegel and some others did a good job with it as well. >> rose: keith alexander or one of the other people in that 60 minutes piece said snowden had in a sense showed the keys to the kingdom. >> well, i think it was one of his deputies who was doing the assessment of the damage done by snowden and he certainly say he left with the keys to the kingdom, now, there is an assumption in the u.s. intel community that both the chinese and russians have full access to this material already. >> rose: because of snowden? >> because of snowden and because snowden was first in hong kong and then of course then moved on to russia where he remains today. but we don't know for a fact

that they got all that material. but certainly the material i reported on this morning, because it has been out thanks to some other publications in europe that documents were put on their web sites, they certainly had that for a number of weeks if they didn't have it for months before it. >> rose: and how could this be used in cyber warfare, not snowden but back to the original notion of being able to take a signal from inside a computer and transmit it by radio frequency to a place with it can then be analyzed and dealt with. >> well, it can be analyzed and dealt with, turned around, altered, an new packets can get injected back into a computer that could have false commands, that could take control of the computer. so, you know, if you have a networked computer it is fairly easy to design an attack. if you have an unnetworked computer, a stand-alone computer, then you need, you know, to use a really bad sort of analogy from the medical world, you need a port that gets

put in so that you can inject the material you want to inject, and doctors do that frequently, and this software that would sit on the computer systems, 100,000 or so that we referred to in that lead that you read, that would serve the dual purpose of first enabling the nsa to do surveillance, but then also to be the pathway to conducting an attack. you know, it is sort the reverse, charlie, of conventional warfare, in conventional warfare, the easy bart is the surveillance, you know, you fly the spy plane overhead, the hard part is doing the attack. in cyber warfare it is the reverse. the hard part is getting the surveillance software in and undetected. once it is there and sitting there and creating a pathway for you, the easier part is going the attack. >> rose: let me turn to the president's speech on friday. >> sure. >> rose: your newspaper reported in a piece today, which i found interesting that and this is like the third

paragraph, peter baker and charlie savage, the result, projecting what he might say seems to be a speech that leaves in place many current programs, leaves in place many current programs but embraces the spirit of reform and keeps the door open to change later. and that sound like, that sound like more rhetoric and betting on the come than it does changing today. >> it sure does, charlie, and we will have to wait until friday morning when he gives the speech over at the justice department to find out how specific he is going to be. but there are a few things to look for. the committee that he, the advisory committee that he created to come up with suggestions for change issued an unclassified report and it had 46 recommendations, and we will be able to go right down the scorecard and say the president

embraced this one, rejected that, and, you know, punted on some of the others, but realready know that he has decided not to separate out the nsa and the pentagon cyber command which right now have a similar -- the same commander. the story that peter and charlie wrote this morning that you cited suggested he may also reject a very major recommendation they had to move the database of all of the telephone numbers and the metadata we have been talking about of telephone calls out of the hands of the government and move it into private hand, either the telecommunications companies or a consortium. that was a very strong recommendation of the group, it does not look right now like the president will embrace it. some others suggestions they made he is going to kick to congress. >> rose: and tell them to choose? >> >> and tell them to choose. >> rose: all right. >> now, remember the intelligence agencies are operating under congressional

mandate, but they are essentially an instrument of the executive branch, and if the president wanted to get some changes in congress he would the stand up and say look this requires congressional action, but here is what i believe congress must do. and what this suggests is that the president while wanting to as the story said embrace some of the spirit of change, may be under a lot of pressure from the intelligence communities not to engage in what is called unilateral disarmament. i will tell you one recommendation or two recommendations i am going to be watching very closely that relate to the story that we had this morning about the cyber techniques. the advisory group said that the nsa should be instructed to help strengthen rather than weaken encryption encryption. they have worked to weaken it so they could get in, something that many silicon valley firms have opposed. the committee also said that the.

nsa should get out of the business of collecting and exploiting flaws in upon software, like microsoft windows that they use those in the attack in iran, for example, and these are not politically sensitive the way they are, the way the monitoring of telephone calls is, but they go to the heart of what the nsa does these days and it would be very interesting to see if he even mentions them in the course of the speech. >> rose: the fifth idea that maybe they should grant, and this came out in the 60 minutes piece, some kind of conditional amnesty to edward snowden have legs? you know, everybody i have talked to at the white house and elsewhere in the administration has rejected that thought out of hahn. they haven't said they wouldn't talk to him about striking some kind of teal, but i think they believe that the precedent of giving him a full amnesty and letting him walk in return for getting their data back would set a bad precedent and of

course we don't know how much of that data may be in the hand of others right now. >> rose: and finally this. this is the president been talking about somehow appointing some kind of public advocate who will represent the cause of civil libertarians and transparency and privacy? >> it looks very much like he will embrace that recommendation and that stay recommendation to basically allow someone to argue the other side of cases in front of the fisa court, the foreign intelligence surveillance court and it is interesting because we saw some pushback from the judiciary branch yesterday that indicated that they didn't necessarily want to have that public advocate in all cases. but right now, it is a very one-sided secret legal proceeding. my guess is that the president given his legal training probably finds that somewhat objectionable. >> rose: let me just ask one last question. i know you have to go but i am

fascinated by this. if you look at where the iranian and the american -- and the five plus negotiate areas are with respect to a nuclear deal, what is your assessment of the likelihood and what would be the final result that would be acceptable to the iranians on one hand and b 5 plus one on the other? you know, charlie, in this case you don't need one deal, you need three deals. you need a deal between the united states and the iranians. you need a deal between the iranian leadership or the iranian -- the new iranian president, president rouhani and the clerics and the military and you need a deal between president obama and congress, and those two side deals may be harder to reach than the one between the u.s. and iran. now, the agreement between the u.s. and iran is going to be difficult for, i think, three

reasons. the first is, this interim agreement merely freezes things basically at the status quo. the new agreement is it is bow, is it going to be accept to believe the u.s. and to israel and the other ally, that will have to roll back their capabilities. >> rose: -- the cent fiewjs. >> some dismantling of a lot of cent fiewnls because the iranians built a lot over the obama years so i think that is one thing. the second is, we i we have nevr seen the international atomic energy agency, the nuclear inspectors get inside the research operations that they believe is working on the design of a weapon, and, you know, it would be prepretty difficult and i suspect pretty embarrass fog the iranians if they had to go allow the scientist whose are believed to be working on that to be interviewed, i think that will be a hard one for them and i think the third big problem is lifting sanctions against iran in a fairly big way, it is going to be a very heavy lift for the president given the fact that so many democrats even want to

impose new sanctions now even while the negotiations are underway. >> rose: david sanger, thank you. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: good to have you. back in a moment, stay with us. >> great ideas are born from frustration, frustration with, he tried to make it work better, he realized that an efficient could replace the traditional, expensive bag, 5,127 prototypes and five years later, the world's first bag less vacuum cleaner was born. >> rose: james dyson here, he is best known for the invention of the dyson, a bag less vacuum cleaner, his company also recently created the air blade hair dryer they are market leaders and made him a billionaire his approach to innovation has been simple, he simply said i just think things should work properly it doesn't hurt the products work great and the james dyson foundation pursuing young generation to pursue engineering, i am pleased

to have sir james dyson at the table, glad to have you here. >> thank you. >> when you were growing up, what kind of kid were you? were you constantly tink kerg? were you interested in building things? >> no. i come from a very academic background. my father was a classic -- my mother an english teacher so, and i was brought up in the wild, there was no i have there, no engineers and didn't know what an engineer was or even an architect, it was an academic upbringing but i used to destroy things, did have a carn, i built model air planes from the top of the house and watched them crash into the ground, i mean, i think the answer is probably yes, because. >> rose: because there is a frame of mind that engineers seem to have to want to create things. >> yes. i mean, write discover that until i went to the college of arts to do design and i suddenly

realized that the engineering of something was almost more important than the design, the technology had in it. >> rose: are they in conflict? >> they used to be. very much used to be. >> rose: why would they used to be? >> well, it is a very good question i think an engineer is a man in a white coat who did the technology and made it work and the designer was a stylist who came in to make it look good. >> rose: right. >> and that is sort of a victorian concept, they engineered everything in the victorian a era but in the 30s when marketing people suddenly appeared they wanted to use design as a way to sell things, so it became getting the the outside surface to look good in order to sell it but in many ways i mean it is not my sort of design. i think design is something that goes right through the whole product and happens while the product is being developed. >> rose: you sound like steve jobs, i mean there is a mindset about design and function. >> yes, and engineering. >> rose: and engineering. >> i see it whole listcally, the

design is the technology it uses, how long it lasts what it is like to use, how it performs and all of these things. >> rose: what is the creative process for you? >> well, it is one of two ways, you either get angry about something you are using every day, you, a and you want to solve a problem. >> rose: because it doesn't work properly. >> exactly. and sometimes we are developing just a bit of technology and suddenly realize it can actually do another job much better and that was the case of the hand dryer. >> rose: how is that? >> we were developing what is called an air knife, it is a blade of air that is like a windshield wiper, it can scrape, and it wasn't -- it was doing quite well for the thing we wanted to do but not well enough and we suddenly realized you could scrape water offhand instead of blowing hot air at them or with a paper towel. this of course saved one-sixth, reduced one-sixth of the energy of a hot air dryer, and a vacum cleaner i set up to solve a

problem, bags, yes. >> rose: to get rid of the bags. >> well, actually, the bag, not so much to get rid of the bag but the problem of the bag because the bag restricts the airflow, clogs and wrecks the suction so you don't pick things up, so that was the problem i was trying to solve there. >> rose: but is there a joy for you in solving problems too? >> yes. yes. and that is what i do every day. that is what an engineer does and there are big problems like stopping a vacuum cleaner from clogging, and you can make the wheel not fall off and i love -- i am not sure i like to solve a problem before i do it but once i get involved, and the progress, it is hugely enjoyable flew is it a lot of trial and error? >> oh, yes, i mean 99 percent failure and one percent success, but it is -- i mean watching failure and experiencing it is fascinating because it gives you a clue as to how you might solve it and you don't get through that sitting at a drawing board. >> rose: a it is interesting

to me how there are certain places where the basic ideas, lead to the result, in one case, the creation of a piece of art and in another case a much better machine. >> well, i can guarantee that the point we start at is simply unrecognizable, by the time you get to the finished product and that is the whole point about invention, invention is something that couldn't have been devised by one skilled in the art. so it is a process of discovery, of accident, happen chance, it is the most wonderful journey, it is agony like a painting i am sure is agony because you keep having to scrub out -- >> rose: and you get up the next emergency and rub paint over it. >> and it is a matter of making choices. there is a multiplicity of choices and engineers, my engineer absolutely are brilliant at this, brilliant at analyzing the options available and choosing the right one.

>> rose: what are your passions beyond engineering? >> engineering, engineering -- >> rose: but not sailing or -- >> i love sailing, i do sail, running, playing tennis, opera, i where you would to play the bassoon, i often to play it more often. >> rose: the bassoon because nobody else played it. >> exactly i wanted to be different. >> yes,. >> and the vacuum cleaner was intriguing because it was such a basic product? >> it was such a horrible product, horrible product, everybody hated it. and i hated it because i was made to vacuole when i was about six and my father died, and i just remember this sort of stale dust and screaming noise and not picking things up and when i had 25 i was the same experience when i bought what was the supposedly the world's most valuable, most powerful vacuum

cleaner and i wanted to find out why it didn't work. >> rose: the things that have influenced you, what have been the shapers of your own mind and experience is japan one of them and its own culture? >> yes, i mean, i was just intrigued when i went there. >> rose: by what? >> by how immediately interested they were in artifacts, how they were put together, why they were put together like that, and that was the first thing. the second thing was their determination to get everything perfect before though lawchd a product, the desire for perfection at the expense of making money and i loved that. >> rose: and then you adopted that as your own philosophy as well? >> yes. >> rose: make it perfect before you launch it? >> yes, i mean -- >> rose: don't let the appeal of the dollar overwhelm your sense of perfection? >> yes, and i don't think of the dollar because i am worried about the product. and, you know, that is why i haven't gone public because i just want to concentrate on the

product, if you get the product eight everything else follows. >> rose: why do you promote it yourself? >> it wasn't my idea actually but i don't object to doing it, but i think i enjoy the experience of explaining why i have done it. i am not attempting to sell it, i am just explaining why i have done it. >> rose: and if your enthusiasm can be appreciated the product will be appreciated in part? >> i think the enthusiasm helps, but also people can see what you are trying to do. it is difficult when you go to a shop and hook at products you don't know what they are trying to do, that they tell you various things about it, but if someone actually explains it then it -- it is simply a new concept you can't understand, why does this thing have all of these -- >> rose: here, to understand your philosophy, explain to me what we are looking at. >> the thing is that battery operated vacuum cleaners have never been powerful because the

know motor has to be very small and the battery don't have much charge so you can't get proper power, but the convenience -- >> rose: the point is we are trying to create a cord he is vacuum cleaner. >> yes. so the clue to it was this that we developed that goes 120,000 rpm, i mean the fastest other woes 30, 35,000 rpm. >> how did you do that? >> it took many years but the clue is to getting something going as fast as that without shaking itself to bits, because balance is the key to it, and electronics, because there is a digitally controlled motor as compared to mechanic controlled motor with brushes, so it took us a long time and very difficult. >> rose: did you form that idea out or did your own engineers come up with this this motor. >> no we came up with it and have been developing motors for 15 years, i made this decision 15 years ago that we had to develop our own motors because nobody else is making progress, i wanted to make progress and make smaller ones and more

efficient ones so we set out on a journey 15 years ago. >> rose: and how about batteries? are you working on batteries? >> very much so, and this actually has, they are not ours but it has new nickel mag ga knees, nickel magnesium cobalt so that gets 50 percent more power so what we are doing is putting in this really light small, you can see it very powerful motor, improved batteries, more efficient motor, and that enables us with this to get full up right vacuum cleaner performance from a machine that is free of the ghastly cord. >> yes. >> and the. >> have you talked to anybody who vacuums will tell you it is aghastly thing to have to deal with the cord. >> yes exactly you fall over it, you get tangled around the sofa, it is a bore unwinding it and winding it up again this is just utter freedom. >> what does that wayne. >> four and a half pound. >> rose: oh, really. >> it is really light, feel it. >> rose: oh, goodness.

>> so and you can do the stairs and the car like that. >> rose: this is for the car as well. >> and do cob cobwebs like that. >> rose: so this is the same product. >> same product. >> but it is different here this component here -- >> i have taken that off and now i can do the stairs and i can use the stick to do the cobwebs, and that, there is all you need, actually. >> rose: and you don't have to answer to this because you are a private company but how much revenue do you think this will generate? >> well i think gradually it will take over from main vacuum cleaners and we develop more powerful motors and better bat fridays. >> rose: what has become of these giant strides forward in taking in this case a vacuum cleaner in another case a heater and in another case, you know, what you do to dry your hands? >> well. >> does it lead to other engineering breakthroughs? in other words, in pursuit of one thing you end up accomplishing something else, which often happens in medicine too as you know you will find all of a sudden that something you were

working on cured something else. >> well, i will strife to make smaller more powerful, more efficient motors is leading us to other product i can't tell you what they are. >> rose: a corporate secret. >> very much so. the attorneys won't let me talk but it leads us to do other things. >> rose: yes. >> so developing battery technology also leads us to do other things, and you get to the point where you don't need a cord on a lot of things which is where we are getting to now, there are lots of avenues to pursue and the new materials coming out, graphene and it is really interesting the concept of power storage. >> rose: new material because they are made up of different elements. >> yes. but which has high conductivity and it is very, very strong a and very, very thin in the case of graphene, so chemical batteries might be the answer other sorts of batteries might be the answer. >> rose: what is the problem

with elon musk and his car? is that a lithium ion battery or -- >> as i understand it they are lit yum ion batteries. >> rose: his problems or lack of problems, is that of a us is spentable to burning? >> i doubt it, i mean, .. i don't know what they are, but lithium ion batteries, if installed correctly and with the correct software on it they are safe. >> rose: right. >> but, you know, historically they have gone wrong and i think -- >> rose: and when they go wrong is it primarily leaving to the leading to the creation of fires? >> well, i think laptops do catch on fire, i think that was due to inclusions and impurities in the battery making process, but the concept of lithium ion is perfectly safe we make millions of batteries every year. >> rose: you must have to, i would assume because of the velocity of technical change keep on top of things by a

massive amount of continued, of continued study? >> yes? >> yes. i mean fortunately not very much by me because i have lots of wonderful people -- >> rose: so you hire people to do that. >> very much. >> rose: that are on the cutting edge of change. >> and driving it. >> rose: and driving it, yes. >> of course. >> rose: even better. >> you can't rely -- i mean we work with lots of very bright universities who to wonderful research and all very exciting. >> rose: when you say work with them, what does that mean? you entwo them to do certain kind of things? >> we usually pay them or create chairs as they are called, we pay for a team to work on something, we have half a dozen to a dozen at cam bridge and some at oxford, man chess officer and in london, working on various bits of technology we are interested in and in parallel we have teams within at a son working on obvious things like motors and batteries and other things. >> rose: have you attempted to make a car? >> i think we are always tempted but we think that is a bit

beyond us at the moment. >> rose: why do you say that? it is a bridge too far? >> it is a bridge too far for us at the moment and we are having such fun with what we are doing anyway so wrote feel the need to go and do this kind of thing and because we are a private company we don't have to expand at a exponential rate. >> rose: you would do it because i would assume somebody like you does things not because you have got to worry about stockholders or in your case not worry about stockholders you do things because you are by nature a person challenged by change and challenged by creating something new. >> yes. >> and everybody knows that electric cars are part of the future, do they not? >> yes, they do. i mean i can't imagine that you would not be interested in that beyond saying oh it is a bridge too far. i mean -- >> well, i mean the position at the moment is we are very

interested in research in battery research but we are not doing anything yet. >> rose: but if you have a battery research breakthrough you know how to apply it. >> right and then a car may be very interested and we will work with someone else and electric motors could well get us there because we are making very, very efficient electric motor, it is efficient because you mustn't waste the battery. >> rose: so what is your day like? >> well, a typical day, i arrive at work and deal with a few bits of correspondence, not too many and i gand guy town to be my en. >> do you? that's my question. so corporate dab. >> i love to stay in my comfortable office but i go down. >> rose: to be with the engineers doing things. >> yes senate food expression and go in the labs and try out vacuum cleaner and just be in amongst them and it is just wonderful. >> do you have any ambition that you have not satisfied? >> . making cars? >> rose: ah! watch out, elon,

here he comes i am telling you right now, watch out. i can see it now, ladies and gentlemen, the dyson. you already have a maim for it already. >> the dyson, with a wheel -- yes. i mean, of course all of these technologies we can see that we want to develop, i want to be around to see those things developed .. some are 15, 20 years out so i am really thinking about those, but i am not thinking about making a car but i am thinking about developing these technologies to give us the power to develop other things, it could be cars, it could be anything. >> rose: are you concerned about the idea of making engineering an attractive profession so that people, you know, you encourage young people to do it and young people to be, to understand how exciting a life in engineering can be? >> well. >> rose: that's an area you, that's an idea you care about. >> yes, even in japan actually, not in china, singapore where

40 percent of graduates are jeeshz and the problem is that the pace of technology and change is moving so fast because, you know, china, india, korea, and other countries can make wonderful things, and historically we were able to export them but now you can only export something that is miles better than they are making because they are make it much more cheaply so we have to make much better things. >> rose: better. >> and so we have got to do this much more quickly and make bigger leaps. >> rose: and the question then becomes are they going to get better, are they going to get better so that they are both god and cheap? and, therefore, leaving the west? >> leaving the west behind? >> that's exactly what has happened, of course, manufacturing has declined in england at a phenomenal rate and that is happening here and we can get that back if we have wonderful engineers and scientist coming out of the university we can win this race

because the value added is not in the manufacturing any longer, it is in intellectual property, it is to win the export race, the global race you have to have better technology, everybody wants technology everywhere. >> rose: and you have to have a culture that encourages technology and you have to build on whatever innovation you already have? >> well, exactly, and the problem is that it is not that we need engineers in the short terms, a shortage of engineers in the moment and the shortage here, i believe, it is that young people are not realizing their potential, here in schools, it is very interesting i have been to schools in chicago and you see these hinn to 14 years old fascinated by design engineering and creating things and solving problems and someone somewhere or a lot of people or popular culture tells them that being an engineer is a bit hard and it is not very interesting either, you know, be a lawyer or a doctor or something. and so that is what they all do, and so then they are missing.

>> rose: or they go to wall street. >> yes or go to wall street where you make lots of money and by the way they pinch a lot of engineers. so i think a lot of young people are not really realizing their potential, and we are being left behind in the technology, global technology race because we don't have enough engineers. >> rose: so what are you going to do about that? >> well my foundation is helping encourage design and technology in schools, engineering in schools, our engineers go and visit schools and do master classes, we are doing after school classes in chicago, we send schools what we call engineering boxes, which have lots of dysons inside and dyson components so they can understand how the thing went together. we are supporting, giving grants to people, engineering and science in universities and also funding and giving grants to post graduates, people who study engineering and science postgraduate level, mr. the united kingdom 90 percent of people doing post graduate work are from outside the eu, and in

united states i understand it is 50 percent, and the problem is, if they go home and we don't encourage them to stay in blend, you do encourage them to stay. >> rose: no, no, no, not as much as you would expect because of immigration laws. that is a real problem. it is very difficult to keep them in the united states. i mean, a popular expression here is that we ought to statement al preen card to every diploma. .. >> i wish they would do that in england, he we have exactly the same problem in friend, it is very difficult to be a politician and make exceptions, for some reason they hate making exse-tions i mean australia does it, if you have an engineering degree in australia you can stay in australia, it is so simple, the answer is simple, but then they say, oh, we are worried about people having these false degrees which are called engineering degrees and a whole bunch of people will stay. well, so what? >> rose: exactly my sentiment. you know, you can't beat the wage component.

but you have got to beat it some other way and in some cases that is happening is in in the united states, some manufacturing is coming back here, that had actually left for a variety of reasons, and it is because of creativity in terms of how you become more efficient in the process, as well as the nature of the product that your creativity is making. >> yes. and there is a academy example. i mean, there is no one on the assembly line at least and one of the reasons he we do this in singapore which is a very expensive country is because we have all of the support for all of the robots and automated, automation there we would haven't in england, so unfortunately, we have to have this factory in singapore. >> rose: right. >> rose: if i was a nation i would want to do something about that because politicians care about nothing like they care about creating jobs. >> the problem is manufacturing dwindled away so fast we lost the skill to make things, and it is those skills, intellectual

skills in manufacturing, international skills are developing new technology, that's what we need to keep, that's where all the profit is, that's where the job creation is, not much in the assembly line itself. >> rose: it is great to have you here. >> it is great to be here. >> rose: much success, continued, obviously you are very successful. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> rose: james dyson, back in moment, stay with us. >> rose: french politicians have historically enjoyed privacy regarding their love lives, a recent scandal involving french president francois hollande pushed his into the public eye. it is alleged he is having an affair with gayet. >> rare retire was admitted to the hospital suffering from shock over the revelation,

joining me is now adam gopnik, he is an old friend of this program and he has lived in france in a magnificent apartment for a number of careers before he returned to the united states. even quit reminding me, charlie. >> rose: it is painful, isn't it. >> yes, it is. >> rose: so the question is, and this came up with the -- who has some of the same ideas. are the french different? certainly than the united states in their attitude about. >> rose: having affairs? >> yes, they are and i think the difference for the most part is completely admirable. france is not a puritanical society as britain is and we are to some degree still. which is not to say it is an immoral society it comes from a different background, one that is catholic and tolerant in different ways. you know, i lived in france for a long time and my general sense is that the french attitude

about sex and privacy is wise, when it comes to sex with children by force, is wrong, and unacceptable and everything else is the human comedy unfolding as the human comedy always will. so in that sense i think that they do have a very different attitude, they certainly think that there should be some area of your life reserved for yourself, that you don't have to share everything with the world in order to be a public person. the law protects them from those kinds of intrusions, you know, the newspaper, the magazine closer was forced to pull the stuff off their web site instantly. so all of that stuff i think charlie is incredibly, is right and healthy and we can learn a lot from it. here is the problem as i see it, is that by having that prince fall and applying it forever, what you seem to be saying to a population, if you are the leader, if you are the prime minister, if you are the president is that the pursuit of pleasure is always justified, the pursuit of pleasure is

always primary, and when you are in a moment. >> rose: and that was. >> it was mitt rand's former president of france not only a wife and mistress but two families, two functioning families and both came to his funeral, as you say the old vaudeville joke, what is the cure for bigamy? two wives. >> and the problem is here we are in a moment in french life, i just came back from france a couple of weeks ago, i was over in before christmas doing a story about the rome, french pickpocketing epidemic in france, and you and i both spent a lot of time in france, charlie and you know how it is in france there is always a crisis going on and the crisis is the grimmest and darkest thing that has ever happened in the history of the world. and it is always reminds me a built of my relatives in florida, they are always dying of the same disease and after a certain time you say aunt rose i think you will survive it well for the first time in all the years i have been going to

france and living in france, it seems genuinely grave, genuinely serious. >> rose:. >> they are genuinely worried about france and not in that kind of rhetorical theatrical way, the extreme right is on the rise. >> rose: and therefore the president's ratings of approval are about 20 percent the low nest the history of the french presidency. the low nest the history of the fifth republic, lowest in the history of the french presidency exactly so and as a consequence what signal are you sending at a time when you have to ask people, ask the french to curb their am tides appetites you are asking ordinary people to take less from the state and rich people. >> rose: take less wages. >> take less -- >> all of those things which are part of what makes the fabric of french life quite wonderful and asking them to change and asking rich people to pay more, you are asking everybody to curb their appetites, one of the things that men of state ought to do and have to do and you are unable to curb your own, what are the -- >ou should lead by example. >> yes, lead by example and if

you don't want to lead by example you shouldn't be leading and you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to be ideal you can be a totally flawed and normal municipal being but boy it seems to me as a nonpuritanical american, educated in many ways by french manners that that is a terrible failure of manners. >> rose: he should have had better judgment. >> he should have had better judgment and a sense at this moment in french history when i have finally achieved this position of privilege and power i have an obligation to be sure that i can show the world what do we mean by leadership, character? >> #02: what is amazing to me, and i know and have met and had dinner with valerie with some mutual friends together, and what was amazing to me is for her going to a hospital, how dramatic can this be? >> it is war rigged, because when someone goes in the hospital for exhaustion it is a signal manager is significantly wrong. >> rose: not overnight. >> no, you have very much

worried what could have happened there, it is the subject for a novel but remember too that his previous relationship, it is common knowledge was with rile, the previous socialist candidate for the -- >> rose: beat him out when he was ahead of the party. >> beating him out as hillary and bill clinton ran against each other at that time and she ran and lost to sarkozy and they have four children together. >> rose: never married? >> never married which is not that uncommon in france, they were totally a couple, in other words it wasn't that he wasn't committed, but this is as i say, there is nothing, you know, countries that don't have a puritanical morality aren't necessarily amoarl, on the contrarily in programs the thing that struck me is that every moment in someone's life has to be argued out in terms of right and wrong, what do i owe my lover and what do i owe my husband? you think about all the great french films and those

films, they are all about what are the proper 6 call ethics for this moment? what do i owe that knee and what do i owe my girlfriend? and so it is not at all and amoarl country, on the contrary i am sure you have spent hours and hours arguing out the ethics of a particular romantic moment, a particular sexual moment, but it seems if you are arguing them out about this circumstance at this moment, it is hard to have a lot of sensitivity -- >> rose: number one, is that if you are a popular political leader, you have more room as you suggested earlier. when president bill clinton ran into an impeachment whirlwind, he was a popular president, admired what he had done as president. >> a popular president in the middle of an economic wave that was -- and. >> rose: and so therefore made life easier although it was push came to shove and it was very, very close, because they had enormously -- a whole lot of

terrible things that we thought a president should not be doing in the oval office. >> but, you know, you add in the oval office, charlie but i always thought that was a crucial part of it, i think that. >> rose: it happened this the office. >> a lot of people said, you know what? it is not anybody's business what two adults do together but not having the sufficient self-discipline to keep yourself from doing it in the oval office, still a terrific president and still a recognizable human being, boy, the totality of the circumstance, that is where the bad judgment was. >> rose: and this too is, stuns me, there are picture and i don't know whether it is true but i assume it is that has been said yes or no he has not denied anything with hollande, the video of him arriving or leaving her apartment in a motorcycle or what have whatever it was with a helmet and glasses somehow, as to somehow that brings stealth to a new dimension. >> yes, it is unintentionally comic in lots of ways, listen.

>> rose: is there to better way to arrive -- >> to arrange. >> rose:. >> you would think mitt rand would have done it with more dignity, .. >> rose: in a tunnel somewhere. >> you know, look anybody's hive examined with that kind of detail i would shudder to have my extremely boring life examined photo by photo day and night and so on. i empathize with somebody who is under that kind of scrutiny think. it is not good, it is not good for a society to to have that kind of scrutiny, but the british tabloids of course are totally plea to make what they want of it and all those bridge journalists are sort of shocked that the french journalists aren't inclined to do the same thing, you are not going to invade somebody's privacy and make their family miserable. at the same time, you know, what we are talking about before, what do we mean by character? we mean simply the power to refrain, the power to say, i could do this, but i am not going to do this, and so when we

talk about a failure of character, i don't think we are being puritanical, or unfair to think of it in that context. >> rose: so how do you think it will unfold? >> >> there bit a story today or forgotten tomorrow? >> he said in his press conference today although he wasn't going to take any questions about it the, he was going -- and he said he would figure out which woman he was attached to before he -- >> rose:. >> before he comes here. >> rose: zoo he will come with the first lady, whoever it might be. >> it is a bit like the bachelor, he is making a decision as they say sometimes you couldn't make it up. >> you couldn't make it up, but it is about -- it is less about sexual morality and more about the dignity of office. >> rose: and the discipline of office. >> and the discipline of office and i think that is what people will respond to, and here is the worrisome thing, the deeply worrisome thing if you love france and french civilization. >> in the european elections coming up i believe in may the national front, extreme right wing party is ahead, is a very

real chance the national i do not would be the leading party in perhaps in those elections in five months time, that is not a little crisis, that is an enormous crisis because that says that, that is a very, very far right party would have that role in france. >> rose: about 17 percent. >> seven taken percent but the polls are showing her in the twenties, maybe even 30 percent, remember the european elections is a protest vote, you don't have much power so it is sort of a free vote, if that happens you have to worry about the fifth republic, about the constitution, it is a really grave thing, it is not a time to be screwing around, in plain english. >> rose: to coin a phrase. >> to coin a phrase and i think that is what people are responding to, it is very worrisome, if you love france, to know that this moment as i said before, it is not a crisis like any other, everybody, we have been through many of those, this is real. >> rose: but no two americans love more france more than you and me.

>> i don't think there are. i don't think there are. >> rose: thank you, adam, great to see you. >> pleasure to be back. >> rose: andrew gopnik. thanks for joining us, see you next time. >> captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

. this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathison. >> founded by jim cramer, "the street.com is an independent source for stock market analysis. cramer's action alerts plus service is home to his multimillion-dollar portfolio. can you learn more at thestreet.com/nvr. rally returns, the s&p closes in record territory. the nasdaq is at a 13-year high. leaving many investors wondering if the stock market's rocky january start is the rear-view mirror. union votes, some amazon workers vote on whether to unionize. but could this small group have big repercussions for the company? and ceo of the year, morningstar's pick for the top chief executive is a