>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a conversation about three of the biggest issues in the middle east, the iranian negotiations, the syrian negotiations and the negotiations between israel and the palestinians. we talk with aluf benn. he's editor-in-chief of haaretz. >> the middle east is changing. what should the israels find in that. should we try to isolate israel from whatever's happening across the region or should israel be more proactive. clearly prime minister netanyahu did a good job in keeping israel out of trouble in egypt and syria. but now the world carry europeans and others are telling him now you have to play your part in reaching the deal with the palestinians. if you are willing and able to do that, that's the biggest

question israeli politic today. >> rose: it's oscar time. we talk about a film that has fend nominations. joining us is david o russell the director and bradley cooper the actor from american hustle. >> i want you to feel so intensely to be moving propulsively and emotion here it's over before you know it and you're moved and you got to go back and think about it but you feel exill rated and alive. when you look at the world you're looking through the movie's eyes. >> we found each other to be like minded in so many ways. a real love for sent ma. david talks about cinema saving his life. i can attest to that. >> our background similarity. i don't know. you meet somebody along your journey and if it happens to be one of the best directors ever you're that much luckier. >> rose: aluf benn, david o russell and bradley cooper when we continue.

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from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> so now we're back at the united nations because the situation demands that the civilized world stand up and fight for those people who are the victims day to day of violence that comes from bombs dropped from helicopters and from ask. cud missiles fired on innocent civilians and starvation and siege being laid to over 250,000 people strapped of trapped in places. >> rose: aluf benn is here from the haaretz newspaper. reporting on the three biggest issues driving the conversation on the future of the middle east, the civil war in syria, the nuclear negotiations with iran and the palestinian peace talks. the yow is reviewing its syria policy as the peace talks in va knee va has sphawld and the violence has escalated leaving hundreds of thousands of

civilians to flew the country in recent weeks. from iran and the six world powers met in vienna on tuesday in hopes of paving a path towards a nuclear agreement. he prepares to lay out his framework for the palestinian peace an international movement bills for an economic boycott of the jewish state. i'm pleased to have aluf benn back on this program to talk about these issues and more. welcome. that's a mouthful. so tell me, as i sat down with you said there are four things that happened in the last year that are worthy of us sort of taking a snapshot of. >> it's like four surprises. that we were not anticipating. the first one was the riot -- iran and the ensuing efforts reaching all these years of disconnect and atrocity. then we had to deal with syria which in fact was keeping us in

power or in power over whatever power the country is controlling, in return for the chemical weapons. again totally unexpected. then we had the new call in europe for sanctions of israeli settlements that developed into a new conversation about boycotting the israels following the death of nelson mandela and so on, which is again was something that was really on the far fringe of the margins of the conversation just a year ago. last but not let's we have the terror mission. we have an american secretary of state full of energy, which the israeli minister of defense called it the obsession which that may be an exaggeration. >> rose: that may be what it takes. >> it may be what it takes, but clearly the energy and effort that secretary kerry has put into this issue is something we haven't seen for 14 years at

least. >> rose: 14 years. >> yes with bill clinton in july 2000, almost 14 years. >> rose: at the making any progress? >> well first of all, he put the issue on the table. after at least from the israeli standpoint most people were like this is over and the peace process is all they hear from the past that's dead and gone. and clearly it's putting a lot of pressure on prime minister netanyahu and his coalition because he has right wing policies and right wing members of netanyahu's policy don't really like the idea of giving away territory to future palestinian states. and that once again we created the conversation in israel about should we do that, under what conditions, is kerry serious. now we know that he is serious. how would the israeli and palestinian governments respond to his framework. >> rose: can he create conditions that will put more

pressure on us? >> not only that. that's actually lead to something beyond a new american document because you know, we've been in this as we say in israel, we've been in this moment before. it's a sequel and sequel and sequel of another american proposal and another document, which have very little effect. >> rose: you're saying it had the feeling of something different now because of his energy, because he's playing with so many balls in the air, because of ... >> because of several factors. because of his energy but the energy's not enough. because of the new form of external pressure on israel through the boycott sanctions which weren't there before. >> rose: and is taken seriously then. >> more than ever before. through the changes in the region which you know, it's sometimes even bizarre to realize that across the border thousands of people are being killed in syria.

in egypt, across the other border. there's been political, ongoing political turmoil for the past three years. and israelis feel as if the total disconnect in that reality across the border. but the middle east is changing. what should be israel's part in that. should we just try to isolate israel from whatever's happening across the region for as long añ possible or should israel be more proactive. clearly prime minister netanyahu did a good job in keeping his real out of trouble and egypt and syria. but now the world kerry, europeans and others are telling him no, now you have to play your part in reaching the deal with the palestinians. is he willing and able to do that. that's the biggest question of israeli politics today. >> rose: but do people more believe it is more likely now, you know what i'm asking.

he got the conversation going when everybody was willing to say okay another failed mission and we'll move on. is there somehow now because you feel a little bit. >> well prime minister netanyahu enjoys unbelievable political power within israel. >> rose: unbelievable political power. that's the coalition he has. >> he has a strong coalition and if that coalition collapses under the strain of an american peace proposal he has an alternative collation ready to. there are parties or more than ready to get in to replace the right wingers. so netanyahu has all the cards. and moreover, whatever deal netanyahu would bring to the israeli public is what the public will accept. >> rose: is that right. if he puts his premature on a deal, the israeli public will accept it. >> yes because of his credentials, because of his experience, because people see

him as the only reliable candidate to be the prime minister. >> rose: there's something they used to say about sharron. >> sharron was more later in life. sharron was the epic of right wing power for many years. once he took office, he was the national father figure. netanyahu is not like that. netanyahu wants re-elections. never by a landslide. and netanyahu always relied on the coalition of those who wanted to change their leads and reform israeli society and coalition of the weak. and today he's seen as kind of irreplaceable because there's no one there to replace him. there's no contender either within his party or the coalition or in the opposition. so with that unbelievable political power, netanyahu could bring any deal to the table and reach enormous success. >> rose: so therefore the

question, what does netanyahu want. >> well that's the biggest mystery of israeli politics. and it's been so for the past five years almost since netanyahu came out right after returning to power. and for the first time uttered the words palestinian states out of his mouth, as a good thing. something that would be good for the future of israel. but since then, we haven't seen the palestinian state happening and people are still asking themselves was he serious. is it something that netanyahu is saying just to please president obama or global public opinion or even public opinion at home. or does he really mean it. and it's very very timid and -- >> rose: is netanyahu primarily interested in maintaining his power or is heúf primarily interested in how he can use his power to leave a legacy for the state of israel

that will make it secure. >> that's a big question. i mean, clearly netanyahu's shown remarkable success in staying in power. he's the second longest serving leader that israel's had ever had after david -- >> rose: the first. >> yes. that's the founder of israel and that's not enough. netanyahu is ambiguous. one day you hear him saying that israel should not be a bi-national state and we had to deal with over two million pal sustainians in the west bank. in other words, give them political rights and not be in charge of them and control them and occupy them. the next day is saying that all those critics of israel are anti-semite and those that have been there since the holocaust and planning to create another one like the extremists and so

on. >> rose: so here you are, you come to this table one of the most astute observers of israeli politics and israeli security policy. and you're saying to me i do not know exactly what this prime minister is prepared to do. >> well -- >> rose: he evaluates what the equation is for him. >> we haven't seen the american plan yet. what i can't say -- >> rose: let me interrupt you because we haven't seen the american plan meaning we do not know what kerry is offering to all the parties. >> yes. we have yet to see this kerry ideas, framework, paper, non-paper, whichever name you would call it. but i think there's one thing we can clearly say about netanyahu, and that has been his mow disoperandi since first taking office in the 90's. he takes decisions only at the last possible moment and only when he can show to his support base, which is the right wing that he had to do it under

pressure, that there was no other way. for example when he exchanged a thousand terrorists for one israeli soldier kidnapped at hamas, it was against everything that netanyahu preached for his entire career. but he did it. but he could present it as if there was no other choice. and the same happened with other controversial decisions that he took over the years. so the only way for netanyahu, if i judge netanyahu right, the only way for him to move forward with the kerry plan, would be to show that the alternative would be worse for israel's security, for israel's foreign relations and so on. because otherwise -- >> rose: don't you believe that? you write an opinion column. >> well, i think that kerry -- >> rose: do you think it would be worse if he does not reach some kind of agreement.

>> first of all i don't think netanyahu has an option of just rejecting an american plan outright. and i don't think the president has this option either. so you know, they will both try to say yes, but, and try to put the blame on the other side for having the bigger buts and the smaller yes. i don't think they really have an alternative. they must take it and push it forward. so but the -- in the ongoing talks. but clearly i don't think that israel has a choice. and the boycott threats are becoming more and more real as time goes by. and the only way out for israel is not just to call its critics anti-semites. this will get you so far. the only way to fight with this movement is by changing the policy and by making peace

seriously with the palestinians. >> rose: there's iran, those negotiations are going on and he never misses an opportunity to say that iran is using these talks to their own advantage. >> well you know, everybody uses talks to their advantage. i think what he's saying is that iranians are using the talks to fool the west into getting a bad deal and thus preserve their nuclear capabilities for the eventual break out and to be not more than one very short steps towards reaching a nuclear capability and active. >> rose: in the meantime missile capacity too. >> the missile capacity, the other weaponnization components. and not only that, receive extra legitimacy that he didn't v they

built whatever they have without the legitimacy they're having now is they're a friend of the west, partner to talks and so on. >> rose: he thinks the west is being had. >> he thinks the west's main agenda is not to get involved in wars. and he has all these analogies of the 1930's and appeasement and west is appeasing iran because war in the middle east has become too costly. by all means economically, politically for western leaders and they're willing to give the iranians any cart blanch. >> rose: there's reason for that, our involvement in afghanistan and iraqi and wars

about syria. >> clearly the issue of an israeli attack in iran is now off the table. >> rose: because they're talking. >> because they're talking and because at the end of the day israel is not a super power. and therefore as much as reluctant as netanyahu and the israeli government might have been with interim agreements with iran and now talks with the final agreement with iran, there's very little they can do beyond raising the plague of the position and raising the flag of telling the world beware of the iranians and their intentions and their behavior and look at how syria behaved murdering all these people. >> rose: and the islamic fundamentalists going there to learn and fight as well as to take back. >> in the complicated middle eastern environment there's the new threat which is the sunnied

rememberrals, the energy of firing rockets and a couple days ago they blasted a bus of tourists. the israeli border crossing from egypt. they are the enemies of iran and syria. both of them are the enemies of israel. so the entire landscape is far more complicated than it was three or four years ago when these regimes appeared like forces of nature, been there forever and left forever. it's far more difficult to navigate that environment. >> rose: how do you think syria willnd. by not ending. >> we have the problem across the border in iraq. this was created after the first world war.

we're just about to cross the hundredth anniversary of the co-agreement delineating the middle east/6zw÷ as it is today. it's collapsing. all these artificial countries created then colonies are collapsing. it's very difficult to see syria or iraq for that matter rebuilding as the unified states. and the fragile in syria is far worse than iraq. millions of refugees changing the landscape in jordan and lebanon. >> rose: what impact do you think it will have in jordan? >> so far the jordannian government has been able to absorb the refugees. and we see that the mutual fears of the rise of iran and the turmoil in syria and the uncertainty over the american policy have brought the jordannians and saudis closer to israel than they were in many

years. >> rose: and the emritz as well. >> and the emritz as well. >> rose: how do you assess this shi'a sunni plight. you have iran supporting the government as hezbollah is. are we looking at a shi'a sunni conflict that could suck in or explode in the middle east and be transborder. >> this is what's happening. >> rose: refugees is one small example and one large example and people are coming across the border to fight against one side or another. >> it happened in iraq and now syria is the main battle grounds and it could move on. this has been going on for

hundreds of years. >> rose: it seems worse to me today. >> it's worse because the central governments collapse and external powers have very limited influence on whatever is happening in these places. i don't see that changing in the near future. there'sg3y4ñ nof

putin has a bigger and better strategy than the united states do you see t0@6cj& >> i've heard that argument. i'm not sure. i'm not sure. i think he's exploiting -- >> rose: openings. >> openings. and some vacuums left by the american retreat from iraq and next in line or the american reluctance to get into trouble in syria. >> rose: do you fear thomas -- that because what happened it's not al-qaeda but al-qaeda affiliated jihaddists are becoming more powerful than al-qaeda ever was. >> in a way they are because they have, al-qaeda for 20 years ago had less control of the grounds in the middle east. it's the first time that we see

the presence of groups or people or whichever name you want to call them affiliated with al-qaeda at the heart of the middle east. across our borders. and to our intelligence services, it's a new headache. again compared to the days that when you had to deal with governments, with career armies, with tanks and aircraft, now it's a very very loose coalition of people willing to fight you. >> rose: do israelis trust president obama? >> it's a tough question. he made a bad remark on i ray whreaz when he refrained from visiting israel. he came to office and came to cairo and turkey and skipped

israel. it appear as if was trying to unbush that policy and too much in israel is not good for american policy. last year he came to visit after his re-election and he gave very good speech in jerusalem which was very very carefully balanced, you know, with one half toward the left ear of israelis and the other half towards the right ear of israelis and everybody was happy bit. the right wing and left wing. >> rose: they had something they could latch on to. >> since then, since then i think that israelis once again have their uncertainty about obama. >> rose: i think it came at the time of the syrians when he pulled back from syria and there was moments from attack. >> not only that and even the care mission. obama is in a way is, as they say is living from behind on that too. he sends kerry to the frontline. we don't really know to what

extent he would back kerry when this proposal comes forward and they need to talk about the real tough issues. is he going to be as involved as bill clinton was or he's just going to send kerry and wait to see if kerry succeeds or fails, it would not be obama's failure. he's once again more distant and it will be interesting to watch this meeting with netanyahu early in march at the whitehouse. >> rose: thank you for coming. it's always great to see you. aluf benn, one of the wisest men who writes about politics and israel and certainly on national security policy. back in a moment. stay with us. >> you said install. you were going to be legal and that we weren't going to fake it. >> i'm being real now. this is who i am. i'm sydney prosper, okay.

>> so why did you do anything after that. >> i'm sorry i didn't tell you. i created edith because i needed her to survive okay but i'm done with her now. i'm so done with that. >> rose: american usual is the latest movie by david o russell. it is a sweeping tale of a small time criminal conartist after the fbi snags some much bigger political initiate. it's after a scandal in the 1970's nominated for ten awe curs including nominations in all the major categories. here is the trailer for american hustle. >> i believe that you should treat people the way that you want to be treated. didn't you just say that. also, always take a favor over money. i think jesus said that as well. >> he's going to stay in the office. i got people working for me.

my idea, i'm running the show, i'm not going to settle. ♪ it's not for me to say. >> he wasn't necessarily in good shape and he had the comb over that was rather elaborate. we had this confidence that drew me. >> my father, he taught me to believe that all people are good, to be good to all people. >> it's ridiculous. you know that i would never say anything bad about your father in front of you, but your father is a sick son of a bitch. the don't repeat that. but yes. >> hey. >> hi. >> you have to find a way to survive. they knew your choices were bad but you had to survive. >> so successful for so long

because we kept it just small enough. >> how come you wound up in this room with me right now, taking orders from me. >> $75,000 in this briefcase from mayor carmine toledo. >> we're all going to get away, are we. >> we've got to get over on all these guys. that's what we need to be thinking about right now. we've got to get over on all these guys. >> that would be the best we've ever done. >> rose: director david o. russell and bradley cooper, one

of the stars. pleased to have you back at this table, welcome. let's talk about this movie, american hustle. now, when he brought it to you, it was already a script, right. >> yes, sir. >> rose: ben aflack looked at it. >> ben's a terrific picture but he decided to make a picture called argo. and i think it did very well. >> rose: the kind of director that wants an as cur. if you're that kind of director, it does well. >> i know that producer and that write for many years i talked to him and i'm looking for amazing characters, charlie. characters that show their humanity and i'm going to show the story in the background and their emotions in the foreground. >> rose: it is in fact these people and their relationships.

>> what they are living and dying for. >> rose: whatever connections to the truth and then there it is. but the reality of their lives. >> that's emotionally true. you can find a bigger truth. the last picture silver linings was based on a novel but my personal movie is my son. >> rose: people say the movies you've made are all about revival or rebirth or some renewal or something like that. do you see that theme. >> absolutely. >> rose: what is it about. >> i think i myself experienced it which made me a purer filmmaker than when i first met you many years ago. i began a period to help my son get back on his feet. he's bi-polar and i came back from the feet up not from the ears up. comes from deep down and we still the story about people. i suddenly saw before my eyes, lives and loves that were made for cinema. the fighter, silver linings and this one. it's made very clear to me. that's my reinvention.

this story begins with someone who was shattered. i love to watch people come back up from a predicament. like duke ellington. >> rose: so you're looking for actors, write. >> i write for each actor. >> rose: are you writing after you select your actors or before you select your actors. >> sort of at the same time. it started with this movie. this movie i was in christian bell's backyard with jennifer lawrence and amy adams at deniro's house saying it inspires me to create something. then you have to leave a tapestry that can shine all five. that's a lot to do to make a story that propels and shows all these characters. >> rose: sounds like a director i'd like to work for. how about you. >> sounds good to me. >> rose: didn't he make your career. >> yes. >> no. >> rose: he did something for

you. tell me what he did. >> it allowed me to meet this man, number one, and develop a relationship which is the most important thing i did. >> rose: relationship of? >> number one, love and friendship. and then miraculously that has also part of it or that was par layed from a creative relationship we just found each other to be like minded in so many ways. and a real love for cinema. david often talks about cinema saving his life. i can certainly attest to that as many people do. and when our background similarity. i don't know, you meet somebody along your journey and if it happens to be one of the best directors ever, you're that much luckier. >> rose: how did you see this character. >> he's a petulent child and wants to be a man. early rosenfeld and edith greensly. he gets caught up in the world and doesn't have the tools for

the high ambitions he has which is basically to glorify the f.b.i. and take down white color crime. >> you watch this man go from innocence to wisdom by the end of the movie which is a direct reflection or inverse reflection of christian's character who does the opposite. >> he got the innocent wish for justice. we'll get to that. >> rose: how is it working. >> oh, man, it was amazing. >> rose: another genius. >> right. >> you have these two together as a team based on a real mid western character who was actually f.b.i. supervisor and there were outer borough agents who was wild and it's all true. that chemistry to me was electric. louis when he came up with the fishing story, i used to ice fish. >> it was a little extra thing. you never know, you meet somebody and sit across the room and you know right away. it's a very intense environment these movies and you really have to let it all go, have no ego

and be willing to jump. he comes with a lot of power this guy. he is the top of his game and he came in just utterly willing to play ball, utterly willing and giving. he was wonderful. >> rose: roll tape, here it is. >> i have nothing but the utmost respect for you. as my mentor. >> what are you doing. >> i just want to talk from my heart. i don't want to go on record. i want to get vulnerable. >> can i finish my statement. >> of course. i respect you. >> i think you do other things besides respect me. >> hey, hey. what are you doing, what are you doing. >> it's just hard for me to control passion, i'm a very passionate person. >> he goes ice machine in the mid west. >> that was told to you in confidence. >> he's an ice fishing guy. how come. >> what are you doing? stop it. >> don't do something you don't know anything about, all right.

>> wait wait. >> i'm not going to hit you. >> rose: very good, sir. but he is good, isn't he. >> he's fantastic and i love surprising audiences because i saw that in the last picture silver linings, they think they know who he is. they come in and they see him be unsettled because that's not who he thinks he is and he's got such a deep well of talent and desire that he's going to keep surprising us. and he transformed in this picture. he became a transformational actor, almost a little bit hard to recognize him at times which is fantastic. >> rose: does he do a lot of directing or what does he have with actors. >> yes. i mean he's the definition of director. he is directing you into this place. >> rose: pulls you to where he is. >> yes. i mean, and walks with you. and allows you to feel like you're the one walking through the door first but always being there. and making sure that you're going to push yourself beyond

places where you never thought you could go and you watch every single actor. there is no simple scene. you're walking down the street. you laid back and say we'll get through this in a couple takes. now everything is high stakes, life or death, let's find the comedy, let's find the cinematic magic. there are five things it goes by and he never settles. it's a great way of making. >> rose: look, we've seen bradley, we've seen, so what about christian bale? why did you see him as irving. >> he's a very singular actor who is super transformational, which i think bradley's becoming. and christian's a fighter. >> rose: this super transformational. >> you become super recognizable. you become people who can't see you. they look at the movie like machinist and they can't tell if that's christian bale. in the fighter people say wait that's christian bale talking to

the camera. that's excitement is showmanship and storytelling and cinema. it's exhilarating because you have to given yourself over to the movie world. i can take a movie it's like faking a pill because it can reframe your brain and make it exciting. that's how movies have helped me in my live. >> rose: how have movies helped you in your life. >> like living in mythology like sitting around a camp fire. you're sitting around telling stories or you're at home and you have to leave what's in your head at the door and you get lost in this world i want you to feel so intensely and to be moving so propulsively and emotionally it's over before you know it and you're moved and you got to go back and think about it. but you feel exhilarated, you feel alive. you look at the world, you're looking a little bit through the movies eyes. i did that with my favorite cinema whether it was frank zappa or we'll wierld, you watch

those movies, scor -- anyone can do that, art can do that. >> rose: you also create good roles for been women. >> powerful women has become a napalm to me for women starting with the fighter. right. and again i'm unrecognizable with that hair. the seven sisters, amy adams which was a role i helped create for her in that picture that showed a whole other side of her in the fighter. and then jennifer lawrence in silver linings play book and now jennifer and amy in this picture and elizabeth rome. >> rose: these are great women. >> women who can clean your clock in a way you don't see coming. they can surprise you, as irving says of the jennifer character she was the picasso.

i love the awe. from the glamour. i said to amy and jennifer i want to see you as raw as i've seen you as powerful and as glamorous sexual all in one movie. it's scary. you ask everyone to take a risk, just like him. >> rose: do you have here in this film, do you feel any of this. you got a cadre of great actors and they're almost like pushing for attention because characters are pushing for attention. it moves so fast. >> it's operatic. you can go with that. i'll go with the operatic. i sat with janet and she didn't know what i was talking about. everyone has an opera in them every day. you have great desires and great angers but we put it in film picking the highest moments of

their life, their intense love affair and romance and their criminal story and their resurrection. that's high stuff. so yes every character you want to have a big scene. i don't want to leave it off the set. i want the actors to do it all. i want to see them do things. that's what i love about watching a movie. you see things happen that are shocking me. >> to appeared to that, they get to do it in a believable way, in a real way that's grounded and that's the thrill for all of us. never settles unless he believes it's actually happening in front of the film. >> rose: you have to believe what's happening. >> oh yes. >> rose: tell me what happened to richey and what he was going through. first of all he was kind of falling in love. >> yes. he didn't see that coming. >> that was just a sideline. >> you know, he's a guy who, you're 15 years old and you want to hang how the with the older kids and you think you can live that life and when you get there

it's overwhelming and he doesn't know quite where to stand and the bottom falls out from under him. when he was telling edith greensly, amy adams character this is the time, i love you and she kisses him back and she gives him what he wants. and she actually tells him something real for the first time in the movie that her name's sydney prosper and she's from albuquerque new mexico. he doesn't have the tools to handle her so what does he say. >> he says you're freaking me out. you're freaking me out. >> rose: let's roll it. >> you're scary. are you here with me. >> i love you. it's real now. i just said it. so now is the time. look at me, look at me. i love you. i love you.

>> you want -- >> ready for real. >> this is real. this is real. what you hear is real. >> what? >> what do you mean, the american accent. >> no, there's no english. there's only american. there's no english. >> what are you talking about. stop it. you're british. i checked your records. >> i falsified my records. i falsified them.

i was in albuquerque new mexico >> you're freaking me out. >> rose: all right, both of you. explain the scene to me. you started on that. we know that she is part of this, she has a british story line that she's developed. but here and he's feeling it, i love you, i love you. what's going on. what do you as a director want to achieve. >> this is an interesting example of how he works or actually take him through the whole thing. >> it was just this is the moment in the film where she has to make a turn and the whole thing is she calming him or is she not calming him. or is it part of the hustle. 4ce:the hustle so what has to hn

for her to be real. and we sat and we talked about it and we have to make her really believe there's a man in front of her telling her the truth. >> rose: so she can tell the truth. >> that's exactly right. and that was the last take. >> rose: you mean you didn't get it the way you wanted it. how many takes before that, how many takes. >> it wasn't about takes, it's about exploration. >> there's something missing until i say tell her you love her. bradley, tell her you love her. that was bradley as a man going oh wait. he said it five times. i'm in love with you, i'm in love with you. look at me, i'm in love with you. >> i just said it. >> she buckled which she had never done. >> rose: what's his reaction

to that. >> i think multiple things. i can say he felt disoriented. she's so much stronger and smarter and you can't step out and say that's amazing you did that and i still love you. first of all you're smarter than me, i don't like that. second of off i'm confused now you told me before we can't be honest with each other. >> he's now going back in the rolodex and saying wait a second everything that happened in the bathroom, wait that's not real. i have to reassess it all because i'm scared. >> she was ready at that moment. it's bad timing. to me movie is about the fragility of identity. it's every one of us. every one of us constructs an identity that we can change or not. >> rose: which brings me back to you and after huckabee and your son being defined as bipolar. what did you go through for

eight years. i can't called it the wilderness but it was sucked out. >> a lot of sucked out. too many overthinking things and fear. >> fear of. >> fear of failure, fear of not knowing how to keep performing in major league baseball. it's a high intensity arena and to make cinema that matters and people can really do. so i think i started to go sideways a little bit. >> rose: what is sideways. >> i wrote movies that never got made, i made movies that weren't true to my core. the year he made the wrestler came up to me and greeted me and he said look at you you're so great what happened. he said i got my head out of my ass. i would say the same thing. it could happen to anyone at any time in their lives. it's a humbling situation to come back and say i'm never going back there if i mean it from the heart. that's what happened to me.

writing of movies, one that was too long and couldn't get made. just when you didn't they had you could get lower i made a picture with christian gore, the vice president's daughter about a healthcare that wasn't even completed due to money c downs that were very strange that we didn't have anything to do with. so you think wow you can't get any worse than this. so you come back very grateful. god is like saying do you really want this child, show us you really mean it. like it's a wonderful live. yes, i'm ready to live, give me another chance. >> rose: i love you, really love, i really really love you. >> i want him to say that to me every day. >> i had say to him actually. you have to say that to god every day. people will say you're getting

spiritual on charlie rose. >> rose: there's also -- what. >> nothing. it's funny. i'll have you do it. >> rose: it will bring you there. >> god bless you. >> rose: so you changed the ending a bit for one of the characters. it was sort of dark. i think that's as dark as you can get. and you said she loves because she's come to be an interesting character. >> we invented it. all these people were invented. the mayor, i went on youtube and watched a video his grandson made about him that broke my heart and told me what a good man he was. >> rose: the mayor. >> the mayor. his grandson made a video that's on youtube that's just beautiful and heart breaking. >> rose: his grandson. >> of him in real life when he's an old man. he did. >> rose: somebody in new jersey told me. >> chris matthews knows all

those guys. >> rose: chris grew up in philadelphia which is next door. >> yes. so the f.b.i. loved him, the irving character loved him and that's one of the beautiful things. >> rose: look what they did to him, they put him in prison. that's will you have, isn't it. >> they felt great heart back about it. you were asking me about the women in the transformation. the jennifer character as the wife of irving. people did transform from this and were reborn. her character struggled for a couple years and had a sadnding, unstable ending. i know people who have committed suicide and people who have awe tempted to commit suicide. >> rose: did you think about suicide in your worst -- >> yes. i remember at the beginning of my career when i first started telling stories, i was writing a script, i was at my parents house i couldn't afford to live elsewhere. i was 25. i'm saying am i crazy. i called some guy up from high school who knew stories and said it was really bad.

i remember laying in bed thinking i could just go downstairs and turn the car o terrible. that means you can look anybody in the eye and say have a nice italian meal, it's not so bad. life's not so bad. so jennifer's such a spirit of life that i dived into that. they were going to put the rope and everything for her, you know. i'm like this feels wrong. >> rose: tell me how you've seen him grow as an actor. >> very exciting to me, you know. i've seen amy adams everything i had the privilege to see jennifer lawrence. i've had the privilege to see all that. >> rose: all who you worked with before. >> and him. it's very exciting, to see someone, look in their eyes and see their soulfulness and see they're fearless and watch them in the shorthand how to go there and how to take a chance. we love, christian bale says we love what some people would call the nonsense. it's the behavior that we love,

that we both love. we talk about it endlessly and see him transform and dive into emotions and hairpin turns of a character. you have a clip here, i don't know if you're going to show it. i see his agility and his realness blossoming. >> can you kill that please. i put this lamp here for you, i thought it would be better for it. people hang themselves but you're too smart for them. where are the table and chairs, there's no bed here. it's like an asylum. everybody off today. jesus christ, it's scary. maybe i wanted to scare you. maybe it was my idea. maybe i'm a little off the beaten path. >> who you are is who you are between you and god. you have your soul that's what matters, that's what counts that's what i'm about. that's what i feel you. tell me you didn't feel that the first time we saw each other. am i crazy? i don't think so. i'm not supposed to talk about this but i don't care. edith, i want to help you.

i like you. i like you. >> rose: but you started to tell me about how he's grown and you seen him grow in silver linings and then this. >> look at that scene the hairpin turn and the thing about the wire how crazy how could they do this to you, maybe i did it. without missing a beat. that's what taught me about rhythms and different ways to direct. we share that. we can dial into a rhythm of language, a rhythm of movement and it tells you everything about a human being. we both take great relish in people great behavior. >> rose: this is the best time of your life. >> yes. >> rose: because you had an opportunity to do the kinds of things you were trained to do, things that you love and work with the people you admire. >> yes. and what have you done that neighborhood you to be at this place? you're willing to get out there

and do roles and work and work. >> you know, i don't know charlie. i was talking about that yesterday actually i thought i can't really believe what's my life, the reality of my life lately. it's just, i don't know. i really don't know the answer to that. i know that i feel very happy that i'm comfortable in this place. i'm comfortable when a man like this asks me to go on a journey with him, i say yeah, i'll give you everything i have. i feel like i can do that. that's a really calming feeling to be able to enter these situations with a steady heart is a wonderful feeling as opposed to feeling something else. but i truly don't know, you know. i just try not to fear it's going to go away like that. i just want to enjoy it. i just want to enjoy it, charlie. i want to enjoy being here with you. that's it. keep it simple. >> rose: good to see you. >> you too charlie. thanks for having us. >> we're so happy. >> rose: thank you very much. much success at the oscar's.

>> thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪ music ] it's all about licking your plate. >> the food was just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were at the same restaurant. >> and everybody