>> rose: welcome to the program. this evening, we look behind one of the successful magazine publishing events of the year, the sports illustrated swim suit edition. >> you want to expect too much so to actually get on the cover be on the cover for the 50th anniversary and following the footsteps of these women is just crazy. it's an honor and it's a little nerve racking because you want to be able to live up to what they've accomplished and what they've done. so it's really just so exciting and fantastic and the whole ride, i'm so excited. >> rose: we conclude this evening with a conversation with photographer bruce weber. >> i just feel charlie like that's the thing i really hope that my photographs show is that you know, photography might be a situation of life and death situation to me but i don't want people to feel that, i want them to feel a sense of joy.

>> rose: the sports illustrated swim suit edition and bruce weber when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> i think every picture he's doing is just like doing a

timeless picture that would be incredible no matter where we are. posing and the framing and everything is just like far off. >> rose: 50 years ago this month sports illustrated swim suit edition was born. the issue has become one of the world's most successful around. joining me now are five women who know what it takes to make it into the magazine, veronica varekova with the 2004 returning two years later alongside seven of her peers for an all star beach party. petra nemcova was the choice in 2003. she was in seven swim suits edition. christie teagen nanny agdal and lily aldridge.

what's it like being on the cover. >> it's like taking an elevator and taking 20 floors high in the split of a second and that's the career for your life, the windows open up for many opportunities. it's just an incredible gift. >> rose: this is your first. >> this is my first sports illustrated cover. it's my first sports illustrated ever. >> rose: rarely does it happen when you're on the cover. >> i feel so excited and blessed and it's been a whirlwind and it's a launching pad in your career. overnight you become a household name, everyone sees who you are, everyone sees this cover, it's huge, es incredible. >> rose: and you're on every television show. >> which is actually my favorite part, oddly enough. this is fantastic. it's my fifth year but you know, it goes by when you're in the issue and you come not to, you don't want to expect too much. to so to be on the cover for the 50th anniversary and following in the footsteps of these women is just crazy. it's an honor and it's a little

nerve racking because you want to be able to live up to what they've accomplish and what they've done. so it's really just so exciting and fantastic and the whole ride, i'm so excited. >> rose: veronica you're in this one as well, the one i talked about here. what's the meant for you. >> everyone around the world knows the issue and kind of expects once a year gets excited and goes to the news stand and get it. and so no matter where you're from, if you're from the czech republic or brazil or japan, they still haven't in japanese but maybe. it doesn't matter. it just opens the doors for you and people recognize you. and whatever you want to do in life in the future, it helps. >> rose: it makes a difference. >> absolutely. >> rose: so there it is. >> i just started screaming. actually i wasn't there when it was presented to the other two girls by mj. i was on a skype call and i had

the producer holding the call. the screen was so small because it's an iphone and you can't tell what's going on. everybody was going crazy and i couldn't see it and mj with a big sign i think it's me but i can't really tell. but these are printing out. so i started screaming and i was actually in joshua national tree park is that what it's called to get wi-fi in palm springs. it's the desert. there's no wi-fi anywhere. this person comes over and says you need to be quiet. >> rose: walter here, one of the greater photographers was here. you want him to shoot your cover if it's possible, don't you. >> sure. >> because? >> because he is incredible photographer but also you get, he has so much joy. he shot 12 covers but every photo shoot is like the first one. he gets so excited and he

remembers every detail. he tells the most amazing stories and oh i don't remember that anymore but he remembers every detail. he's just so much fun to be around. he's a treasure. >> rose: does he talk to it? what makes his photographers to be so ... >> he makes you feel comfortable. >> exactly. >> it's sort of feels, despite of 20 people being on the set you feel like it's just you and him and nothing else. you have this unbelievable connection, he's warm and kind, he's elegant. you are kind of in a bathing suit and he just looks in your eye. >> rose: what percentage in this is modeling later or whether it's acting or humanitarian causes or what. >> the girls actually keep one foot in the modeling, no matter if they go into business or entertainment or philanthropy, they always keep one foot. >> some beautiful connections to

keep, right. it started us off and everybody kind of roots to dismiss our beginnings. i'm very grateful for everything that happened to me, including sports illustrated. but you feel like it's time to, you know, you get interested into something else. you have the opportunity while you have. >> rose: that would be the most important thing. the people that you get to meet. it has to tell who you are and what you're about. you and i know and have talked about what you're doing in haiti. but i'm sure some of the people that know what you're doing with people who made an association because of that and also because they knew of your story from the tsunami. >> yes. actually, i was in a cover in 2003, and a year later i was blessed to survive the 2004 haiti sue ma knee. because being on a cover and having this incredible platform i was able to really set up the foundation and have a lot bigger impact. >> rose: are there any

misconceptions about all of this. what do you think? is that true. i'll give you -- >> [indiscernible] [laughter] >> rose: of course. is there something where you say i want to show them what i'm not what you might see because of the perception of blond and something. >> i think it's the story of life. you need to prove yourself no matter what. whether you model or sell something in the store, you want to grow. you want to march further, right. >> i think it's almost like an opportunity because i think people books definitely everyone is sort of indifferent. there's an opportunity to break that box and i love that. it's like sort of taking the total. some of them sort of just meeting people. but some of them strategically, when i started a foundation, i actually took a decision not to do sexy pictures, not to do

sports illustrated or anything like that because you have to speak at the united nations and somebody see me in a bathing suit no one will take me seriously. i have to show about the philanthropy. you have to do it to sort of make that statement. >> rose: do you -- >> i do but at the same time i think you kind of disarm people as soon as you open your mouth. not probably every time, sometimes i stumble. >> rose: you're the most honest person. >> i'm very honest. there are the presidents and therefore it doesn't really matter what you're sticking to, i think. if you do get the point across which is essential and you know how to do it and all of these beautiful ladies know how to do it doesn't really matter. >> rose: go ahead. >> whatever people think of you at the beginning. >> rose: that's their problem not yours, by the way. >> exactly. >> rose: this is what mj day said. lily is a fashion industry star who is going to thrill an entirely new audience when she makes history by becoming the first rookie which we just talked about to grace our cover

says heidi clum. chrissy is a phenomenon. >> charlie's laughing. >> rose: but wait it gets better. and then a bomb shell we knew she's going to be a star from the day we met her. how did you get into modeling? >> i was discovered on the street back in my home town denmark when i was 14 years old. >> rose: like a photographer or magazine editor. >> so it was the e -- e let model management and they asked me if i wanted to be in it. my grandfather says yes. i didn't win. >> rose: you were 14. >> 14. i started modeling in europe and i didn't like it. when you first start you're not used to everybody poking you and doing your hair and putting make up on you. you can't really do that when they pay you to stand there and do what they're telling you. when i was that young i didn't

really enjoy it. when i was 18 i was just thought i would move to the states and try it out. now i am here. [laughter] w>> rose: how was the image of, looking at the sports illustrated from the beginning to today. kate and this. what i see is an evolution, is there more and more what. >> we have the instagram, the twitter. you name it. so i think the exposure is much bigger. >> social media. it's intense. >> it took it to the next level i think. >> i feel it's sort of the same spirit though. if you look back at the cover it has that just beautiful woman. >> honestly i feel like recently -- [laughter] >> rose: this is the year of

the butt. >> men weren't like oh look at that butt. when i was young -- [laughter] >> they could say anything about me. >> rose: growing up you were not sort of everybody said that's the most beautiful kid i've ever seen. >> no. trust me, we can even pull up old photos and i can verify that for you. i was a tom boy. >> rose: we'll come back in five years, what will you be doing or what do you hope you'll be doing because i'm sure it has to do with haiti. >> haiti. i would love to build, we will build by the end of 2014 when our anniversary, building of a hundred schools. >> rose: charter schools in haiti. >> actually, we work in seven countries. we will go to the philippines and eight countries by the end of 2014. but in five years, well, actually the bigger picture will be to do something broader with the happy hearts fund.

i have a happy hearts fund goal but what happens now after national disasters when the first responders leave children are forgotten. they wait four to six plus years for a new school. and that's the whole generation. for me it will be to find a system where you can narrow the gaps so children don't have to wait for six year. maybe one because you cannot make it appear but it's narrowed. that will be my goal to create that. >> wow. >> okay. [laughter] >> like you were such an inspirational woman and you're the reason i'm like going to get emotional. like you're who i want to become like, you know, to care about other people and be philanthropist and care about children. that is the ultimate goal and you're using your beauty and your fame for better. >> rose: and your brain. >> i think it's so incredible.

>> it's so inspirational and that's why these women are on the cover of sports illustrated, you know, to do better, to raise awareness. it's an incredible gift. >> a gift that can be used -- it's nice whenomeone does it. i know i love petra. i'm like you crazy person but what she does -- >> rose: what is you love about her getting on a personal level. >> she's such a fantastic human being. i don't think there's been one e-mail i didn't get teared up from or a screen shot and this is the sweetest moment on the planet, i can't believe she's real. it's really nice and refreshing to see all these women in sports illustrated really truly get along and understand where each other's coming from and be supportive of each other. really really wonderful because sometimes you lose a little bit of hope sometimes. you're like do women still love each other, do they still have this connection and it's very nice to see. >> you think sports illustrated is a perfect example. even the picture is such a

teamwork. usually the girl we fly by ourselves. but with this and with victoria secrets, it's kind of with other girls, absolutely. >> rose: five years from now, chrissy. >> five years from now, i love to cook so i would love to do like a cooking travel show but also be able to balance that with having a family. >> rose: you'll be teaching at columbia political science. >> no, no, no. [laughter] i hope i can get through it. >> rose: five years from now. >> i want to continue what i'm doing in africa. >> rose: what do you do. >> i sit on the board of african wildlife foundation. obviously i'm sure you've heard of the elephant overpoaching issue. that's a big tackle there. then i want to support the development of africa. >> rose: what brought you to that. >> [indiscernible] >> rose: is that right. >> i'm telling you it totally opened the door to me in africa.

i bought land in rwanda, yes. >> rose: you bought land. >> yes. i want to be there and i want to continue exactly where i've started off and have the continent to be what has all the chances to be, you know. >> my goodness. >> rose: here's an interesting thing, to know both of them that's real genuine and in fact they're doing serious things and enable to pursue that passion. it's not like some nice answer, it is what you're doing. >> no, it's a fact. but i think we have to give credit to -- because it's the most incredible countries and that really opens up your work. it's passion that you travel as well but it's in more remote areas to do most, you see a lot and you see the balance. and i think that it's part of why we sort of start thinking really okay what can we do about

it. we have to give credit to south africa. >> rose: where am i going to find you? >> that's a pretty big question when you're -- >> rose: 21. >> i don't know. i will hopefully still be modeling and doing some acting. i would like to do some talk show later in life. >> rose: thank you all. thank you. thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> rose: the cover edition is out, swim suit edition is out now i think. >> yes, it is. go get it. back in a moment. stay with us. >> we'll do an orange suit now and then a white suit because that's a white brim of light. the surface. >> that was the day we felt we were going to get no shooting in because the weather was so bad. it was raining and raining, we stopped and we sat and no no, at 5:00 the sun's going to come

out. >> rose: the sports illustrated swimsuit issue turns 50th this year. some of the most iconic models introduced the world to christie brinkley. the magazine reaches 7 million adults each year. it's viewed by 18-33 year old men than the super bowl. julie campbell is the swimsuit founding editor. she saw every issue between 1965 and 996. walter looss. for 30 years he was with the sports illustrated issue. carol alt has appeared around the globe. a bunch of talented people. welcome. tell me how it began. >> i was called into the managing editor's office and said i would like to have a pretty girl on the cover because

are basketball has not started, football's over. we need something to wake people up. at that time, twiggy was in fashion, very thin models. and i thought where am i going to get who looks athletic. the first 12-13 years all the girls came from california. >> rose: so you were looking for healthy. what else? >> beauty. >> rose: a certain thing, a certain it look. >> yes. i was looking for, i was looking for someone who would grace a sports magazine. and that's how the fish net started because i attached fishnet to fishermen. now people thought i wanted fishnet so you could see through them. i never even thought of that at the time. >> rose: speaking of fishnet that's fascinating. >> there you go. >> rose: that's a xerox. >> the fact that the fishnet looks even better, i asked her to get wet so it would glisten.

and that is what happened. >> rose: it glistened. >> it wasn't all intentional. >> rose: the second thing here carol that's you on the kenyan coast. you always went to these exotic locations. >> yes. >> we tried. >> rose: did you do it in secret. >> yes. walter can tell you. >> rose: walter, why secret? >> well julie didn't want anyone to know where we were. we weren't allowed to send postcards or make phone calls or tell your friends or anything. and people would recognize jule's voice. her voice was so distinctive. at restaurants, i know that voice are you the editor of sports illustrated. yes, i'm jule campbell. >> rose: you were a sports photographer at that time. how come you got this assignment. >> i'm still trying to figure that out. i don't know. thank you jule. she took sports photographers. she didn't want fashion photographers to do this type of work. there was jay mazal. she knows better than that.

>> they were photographing jocks. where is the photographer taking fashion all the time. so when walter got behind the camera, and he was very attractive anyway, it was a very ... >> was. thank you. >> rose: tell me about this. what it did for you. >> it made me go from being just a face to a face with a name. and that was really huge back then. it's not the same as today where every magazine cover puts your name on it. this was practically the only magazine that put your name on the cover. >> rose: was it popular from day one. >> yes. >> rose: instant popular. >> from my story, yes. the perfect california girl, had no make up on. she was 17 years old. she was not chubby but well endowed. and today if she was 30 or 40, you'd say oh well she sat but when you're that young it's like

roses this opening. >> rose: mj. this is what,2012. she's been on how many times. twice. how's it different since you became editor. >> there's a lot of things. the magazine has evolved. obviously sports illustrated swimsuit's a multiplatform media franchise now for print or tv or web or apps or video were social, you know. there's so many components now that are a part of this magazine. it's not just print, although print is what kind of spawns the goodness. it's different but the same. we're still looking for the same things, health vivaciousness. >> rose: and you think the photographer. >> yes, actually we do. >> rose: so what's the secret of this for you as a photographer. is this easy? >> yes, it is.

it's really easy because do you know why it's easy because you have a team with you. you have great hair and make-up, you have the editors, you have the best models, you go to the best locations. it's really pretty easy. >> rose: what are you looking for. >> i look for the same thing whether i'm shooting -- michael jordan. i'm looking for light. all the great pictures have the same component, composition, light, color, emotion and something happened between you and the camera. >> rose: between carol and the camera. >> yes. >> rose: can the photographer that. >> sometimes. there's a lot of intangibles that make things happen. you start somewhere but where you end up is what you're looking for. the way you edit is your lab picture. you start from the beginning that's boring but it's where you end up taking the picture where you're trying to get to. >> rose: that's exactly right, that's my point carol, if it was easy.

>> it makes sense. absolutely. and also they're comfortable with this photographer at that point. >> rose: how do you create comfortableness. >> i don't know how you create it. i think you just, you go about doing your job with someone. >> rose: i assume there's an element of professionalism too. ie, i know what i'm doing. i'm comfortable here, i belong here. i'm the person who should be taking your photograph, right. >> i never really thought bit. you just walk in, it's a job, you get there, you try on all the suits. you look for immediate light, sunsets, great background. walter was always, walter you have a great sense of humor which always puts you at ease with a photographer to have a rapport. jule knew her stuff. you know she picked the best place. you come, you're alive, you have a rapport, there's other girls there and you just start to work like you would on any other job. with all the time knowing it's sports illustrated which makes your heart pound every single time. >> rose: jule, did you start looking for exotic locations

from the beginning and how did you choose them? >> how would i choose a good location. normally i would try to find a place that vogue was not photographing, was not in. and so i did my own scouting. i always worked with the same components which most people don't realize, walter does, are working with sky, sun, sand, girl, swimsuit. those five things happened every year. >> rose: i think rich cohen in this month says when you're looking at women you're looking at the most profitable ventures in publishing. >> that's pretty good for 50 years. >> rose: this is a good idea, let's expand it, let's do quarterly. >> you know, i think swimsuit is a really special magazine and part of that is that you anticipate it all year. and then you come to it.

oh this kind of darkest month of the year and you know after the super bowl here comes this magazine and it's something to look forward to. i think that that's a large part of its success is the anticipation and sort of the frenzy that's generated from that anticipation. but of course new media has also given us new opportunities to take the vast amount of content that we create every year and that has been created since 1964 and utilize it in different ways, like the web or swim daily or social media outlet. so while we are an annual, there are still ways to get your swimsuit fixed 365 days a year. >> if i might just say something. the difference between say 25 years and 25 years makes 50. when i was asked how would you like to have 39 pages. this is when i had about 30.

and i said i don't want more than 39. yeah, yeah, we can get it for you. i said i don't want it because my philosophy then was let them turn the major and say is -- page and say that's all. i know they're going to come back next year. if you satiate an appetite. >> rose: you want to leave them wanting. >> yes. >> i think a lot of people have tried to copy what sports illustrated had done. and i think the difference between sports illustrated, everybody else is that sports illustrated is so classy. they are sexy but classy and i think everybody else crosses that line to trashy. and that's the difference. >> rose: how do you avoid that, crossing the line mj. >> it's a fine line and you definitely have to step back every year and kind of look at what you're doing and evaluate what is going to keep this legacy going which is a very

important one. and i think it's a combination of the women that you chose to represent the brand and the issue, the photographers and their style of photography that they can take a picture. still create a buzz, still create a beautiful image but not cross the line. and you know we always say always sexy never vulgar. it's something you have to keep in the back of your mind. because it's eyes -- easy to push it so far. >> rose: what you got is walter giving you everything you need. >> i only give a small segment of what they need. there's one thing, people tried to copy us. sports magazine, espn. this is so perfect. it's a part of americana. nobody's been able to top what this issue's done for 50 years. it's pretty incredible. this stands alone and still does. >> the quality of the girls we choose is different. a lot of time the girl looks

trashy. it's just the look or an image. >> rose: you're absolutely right. so tell me about this one. this is obviously christy brinkley. >> that was the motion beautiful rocks in the world. they don't show but the girl is lovely. what can i tell you. christie was young, full of life. she moved in front of the camera beautifully. and i would often give up a beautiful girl for one who could move in front of the camera. walter will attest to that. you get a better picture. >> rose: what about that idea, moving in front of the camera. i assume one thing, you the model has to understand exactly where the camera is and how it's photographing. >> well not only do i have a camera and a girl, there might be two video crews and there's 20 people looking at you. but some models just have the ability to move. they're just so natural in front

of a camera. i remember sharyl telling me in that same trip in brazil with the fishnet. she went through her pose and it's very hard for a model to pose with no props, just standing there. especially like that. and she says do you have -- i said let's do it again. she said well i'm going to do the same thing which means she just goes through the same posts another time. >> rose: come to kate, is she different, both in terms of her look. is she different in any way. there's almost an idea i have of teen kate. >> i think when kate ended up on the cover in 2012, she was different, you know. >> rose: she was different because. >> different because she is a woman with curves. and we haven't seen curves like that since the 90's. i mean the industry didn't really support that body type. >> rose: modeling industry. >> the modeling industry. i would struggle. every year i would call the agents up and say send me a girl

with body and i would get like five. do you know what i mean. it's like the most frustrating thing in the world, to jule's point you want a girl in a bathing suit. it's like searching a needle in the haystack. those are few and far in between. kate has bridged the gap between commercial success and high fashion editorial success. she walked into our agency and i said where do you want to go and she said sports illustrated. that was our first casting. >> rose: did you say yes. >> i dragged her all over the office. i said come on with me. i showed her to everybody and i said you have to see this girl. literally dragged her three floors. i said how much time do you have because you need to meet every single person here. [laughter] she was 18. she was right out of florida and you know, that was the moment.

you know when you see the specific girls you know they have futures. obviously it's up to them. >> rose: what's the state of the modeling industry today. >> i think you've heard some complaints. i think the girls are really really really super super thin. i do a health so so of course i want girls who are healthy inside and out. and i think it's just way too thin and it's the wrong image to be showing these young girls. so for me, it's tough to watch it. and i've defended kate on more shows than not. is she fat. no, to me that's what girls should look like. that's normal. >> rose: thank you all. good to see you. good to you see jule. >> nice to meet you, charlie. >> rose: back in a moment, anyway with us. >> football, electric trains. i was so excited to have a son. it certain was fine, you know. it was somewhat adjusting but it was fine because i love him and

her very much. loved him then, love her now. >> rose: bruce weber is here. he's a legendary photographer and filmmaker best known with his work with top designers, like abercrombie and finch -- he's used his passion to tell others mainstream stories. he photographed 17 transgender model for barney's 2014 spring campaign. it is called brothers, sisters, sons and daughters. through still and highlights the struggles and triumphs of them in our society. here's a look. >> i felt different. maybe when i was five or six. when you're really like starting to understand if there's a difference between girls and boys. and that you're not the same. and i did tell my parents, a parent. and it was met with a lot of anger and negativity. so i for got about it and just

let it alone. >> i just wanted to be a girl. and how i behaved was frowned upon. at home and outside home. so very early on, i was confused. >> high school, i identified as gay. i never really wanted to use the word lesbian because i knew that i didn't identify fully as a girl. also that didn't feel appropriate. >> rose: i am pleased to have bruce weber back at this table. welcome. >> thanks. >> rose: many travels of bruce weber. >> that's for sure. >> rose: you just came in from somewhere. >> from florida. i was down there working. we have a place down there on the beach and my dog goes swimming and surfing every day. >> rose: that's talk about this campaign. why? was this your idea or head of barney's marketing idea. >> it was dennis friedman who is the creative director there and mark lee who is head of barney's

and they called me and said are you interested in shooting our campaign. and i said you know, no. i said no, then i said yes, no, yes. then i said of course i am. >> rose: because it's different? because challenge. >> i really like going on a journey with a project. and i like to and it. i like to meet people and i like to learn a little bit about myself. >> rose: tell me how you started it and what you did. and we'll look at some images. >> when we first started, there's a wonderful girl, jennifer vendetti. she's very good at casting. and barney's and jennifer they casted all over europe and looking at the videos and telling the story and talking about it. a little bit like you do on a news program. then we sort of thought okay

let's take our chances and use these people. and we were blessed in a way, you know. if you go into a project in the right way. >> rose: here's some pictures from the campaign. tell me about them and then we'll come back. this is? >> oh, yes. that's edie. she lives here in new york city and that's her younger brother. and i really wanted to put animals in that were a bit sort of not the usual pets to have. and i'm a big fan of iguanas and they're kind of like characters. a lot like these kids but in a special very dignified way. >> rose: this one is. >> he's a pilot with an airline and this is his daughter, and steve, stevey. she's an amazing person. and when she was going through all her different changes, her parents got divorced. and he has a new girlfriend who

loves her and this has not was just unbelievable, so affectionate, such a great support system. >> rose: there's this one. just to give you a sense. this is all part of the campaign for barney's. >> yes. the gentleman there is wrigley and the girl is valentine. she's from holland. >> rose: this is wrigley -- no. >> rose: this is wrigley here and this is valentine. >> value type, yes. this is wrigley's grandparents. and he says the wonderful thing, people say why aren't your grandparents black. he says why aren't yours. he's really an exceptional guy. >> rose: one more here. what is this. >> she plays the cello in detroit. >> rose: and dajon cartier. he says if i could describe my life pretransition i was a

ticking time bomb ready to explode. your favorite photograph of all time is one of your parents. >> yes, yes, definitely. >> rose: because it's your parents, clearly. >> well yes, but also we had a lot of stuff to work out growing up for me. >> rose: like what. >> well you know, you know i grew up in a way like a lot of these kids where, i grew up in western pennsylvania, bigfoot ball town and i was really into art and photography. and every sunday night my family, which was quite dysfunctional to see a painter and he teaches painting and watercolor and it was kind of magical you know. but also very much underlying very difficult. and this is a trip where i took this picture of my parents in a virginia beach. and my parents sort of came back

together again have a very amount of love and affection and made me really happy. when i see that picture and experience it i really am very proud of it. >> rose: you said you learned from diane and the said model to take photographs you need courage. >> yes. >> rose: what's the courage you need to take a photograph. >> most photographers are very very shy. to have a camera in front of you really helps you a lot. this is crazy. my dog goes swimming in the water and i love to photograph him under the water. i can hold my breath for the longest time under the water with my camera. if i was just swimming around with my pals, i wouldn't be able to do it very long. i'm not that athletic. >> rose: is that because you're not focused on your breath because you're focused on what you're doing you're not thinking about that. >> yes. sometimes i have to go to a big party or wedding or something and i always want to take my camera because i just think it's sort of my safety guard.

i don't have to talk to people. i can hide, i can hide behind the camera and things like that. >> rose: who did you learn the most from. >> from nan, my wife. i would say about design and art direction, i would say this great art director at rolling stone, a great exceptional person. richard avadon i learned a lot from. >> rose: what did you learn from him, i learned it's not for always. and you have a chance in your life to express something. and when i went to photograph dick it's kind of prehistoric. i was supposed to photograph dick and we all went with my two assistants to the studio. he hadn't been out of the studio in six months. and in america, it's different than europe. in europe, no matter what age you are, there's a lot of respect for photographers and for painters and whatever. here it's a bit different.

and he was really just traumatized by being outside and having to prove himself. he was such a great great star photographer, you know. i said dick you got to come out with me. we're going to go outside. and we had the most amazing time outside. and we took pictures all afternoon. and i wanted to go back and be with him again. so i said i don't have the pictures yet i have to go back. every week for a month i would go back and photograph him and we became really close. and dick would call me all the time. he would write me notes and send me pictures. he photographed me when i was really young that's how i knew him. >> rose: he loved, speaking about photographers revered in other countries -- i did a series of interviews with. >> wow. >> rose: and he loved it, he just loved it. and loved him because of the reference that the french had.

>> exactly. he and bf fightler did a book and they look all the family snap shots. it was a huge uplift, it was so exciting. there was such an energy about it. >> rose: he was a great friend of adam gottlieb, too. >> you know, dick was kind of a photographer that i think the people look back at his work and really you know say well there was something, when he did his whole series there was a lot of criticism about that. and i didn't really understand those pictures either when i saw him. and the older i got and the more i knew dick the more i loved those pictures. and i was up in his room, his bedroom and he was showing me a series of all these cowboys in all white cowboy shirts and they were so beautiful. i said dick, why aren't you doing something with this. he says nobody's interested in that, you know. see a lot of photographers at

that time, they didn't want to really show their personal life. they really wanted to show the life that they thought people wanted them to have, you know. >> rose: let's talk about another thing you do. the shineola campaign. i know a lot of interesting things who have these watches. i don't know if they have them because they love the so much or they love the idea so much of the watch because the watch was manufactured in detroit, michigan. i guess the guy who does it is an interesting person. i never met him. >> his name is tom and he's a wonderful guy. his factory is in the worth school. all the cars were designed and everything in detroit. he chose detroit because he loves it. he believes things should be made in america. bringing the whole industry back into america. what tom did was he taught all these people how to make watches. now there's all these great watch makers there in detroit.

they sell the best bicycles, incredible bicycles there. and he's brought so much work into detroit. and i'm really proud. >> rose: it was great heritage but has a long way to do because it's such in bad shape financially although it's been saved i think from having to sell off its museum. >> i'm having exhibition there in june. they call me masters sponsoring and really excited about it because i can't for pete pull that i photographed to the museum. >> rose: before we leave detroit there are three images here by the shineola campaign. did you see that. >> yes. >> with the model carolyn murphy. it's inside the store. >> we were in the store and -- >> rose: you don't see the watch. >> no, no. they're not about like, do you know what i mean. >> rose: right. >> tom's really loose that way. asia, the little girl there, she just won the spirit of detroit

award and she's a rapper and she wants to be the first president who raps. >> rose: rapping on the campaign trail. >> exactly. that sound pretty good to me. >> rose: all right a couple more. one is ms. qb. >> she's a local soul singer. and they sings a lot at the raven, it's a great club. and if you go there i hope you get to go to that club because it's a lot of fun. there are people, all kinds of people in the city. and she's a real spunky lady and a diva. >> rose: there's one more. the bicycles. >> this is the guy who does parcor. it's all over the city. we made films from him. it's an extraordinary song called we almost lost detroit this time. >> rose: the born ready, how did that start? >> well you know we've been

these journals, that's the 13th journal that we've done. and we decided to do it. it's called all american. and i don't know. we sort of liked the idea of having a press. our first book we did there was imaging. >> rose: who is that on the cover. >> everybody thinks it's truman capote. >> rose: it looks like here. in here is a collection of photographs. >> there's some poetry and you know some articles about things we found really interesting over the year. >> rose: you go on a journey, you take your camera and you and nan together do it. >> and other people too. we sign things just like a magazine does. these are some pictures taken up in harlem. >> rose: are you ever without

your camera. >> well nan tells a story to a well-known fashion photographer, he was saying he was going away and she says bruce always takes his camera. he says i never take my camera on my vacation. i couldn't imagine going away without my camera. i couldn't handle it. >> rose: i would be like you. not because you're going out to take pictures every but but you may see something. some people would argue it's not about taking picture. you want to enjoy it and you need to take a picture to enjoy. >> you know i just feel charlie like that. that's the thing i really hoped my photographs show is that you know photography might be a situation, a life and death situation to me but i don't want people to feel that. i want them to feel a sense of joy. >> rose: is there core competence among great photographers. they have to have this if nothing else. >> you might save an artist, they might have a sense of light

and color. >> i would say you got to have a sense of timing. and a feeling [indiscernible] always said that when you walk into a room and you're photographing a portrait of somebody the first picture you take is the best. that's right for him. it's different for everybody else. a friend of mine david bailey just had his exhibition in london. >> rose: david bailey, the famous david bailey. >> yes with his gorgeous wives and great photographs office -- of the stones. he paints a person and then almost instults them like a joke and takes a picture. kate moss came into the studio for the first time and he said what's the big fuss but. he looked at her like you're not so great and she started laughing and he laughed and they hugged and kiss and they took pictures. it's sort of nice. i think every photographer has a different thing you know.

>> rose: is it true that you prefer kind of a unique kind of look that you know in your own head rather than sort of fashion models. >> well, you know, i like to take a girl or a guy and i like to have a fantasy about them. but almost would make a movie of them or a play. and i like the sort of explain that as well. and sometimes the clothes that you have to photograph aren't like that. so i kind of have a bad reputation for ripping them up or doing all kinds of weird things with them. >> rose: what about when you rip them up. >> one times i was working for karl lagerfeld and i was workin with with [indiscernible] and it was karl's first, his first designs for clothing company. and it was so funny.

we were up in a chateau and we were out in the woods with a beautiful girl and we took scissors and we cut the clothes up and we put them back together using all kinds of things. we meet two guys who were hitchhiking on the road, we were in the french army and we put them in the pictures. we went back and i saw karl and i said you're going to be upset. he said you're the photographer, that's okay. >> rose: that's a great story. different fashion people like karl lagerfeld have different things they want in picture. >> totally. it's always the photographer's fault, you know what i mean. >> rose: you don't see what they expect you to see. >> right or if it's not successful it's the photographer's fault. it's usually the photographer's or the hairdresser's fault. it's never the model, it's never

the weather, it's never anything. and but they're all very strict. when i first started working for ralph lauren, that was such an amazing thing because i met him in a way where i was taking family photographers everything portraits for harper's bizarre. we got along well talking about people's cars. ralph would come and visit us when we had our house in shelter island and he would look at all nan's clothes and my clothes. we talked about all kinds of stuff. and so we had a real relationship and the photograph sort of told that story. >> rose: there's this too, robert mitchem who i loved as an actor. in california, i was at a film festival with robert mitchem and it was just wonderful, it was like santa barbara or something like that. >> exactly. that's where he lived. >> rose: it was great. but you were obsessed by him and it was not easy to get to him.

you would send beautiful young women with gifts. >> exactly. >> rose: with like pictures you wanted him to see or some piece of cake you wanted to share. just something to get his attention. >> yes. >> rose: and he never answered. >> he had met me. i was photographing him for vanity fair. that was pretty wild time. and but so he knew who i was. you know. but he thought i was some crazy photographer you know. and but i wanted to do this film on him. i always wanted to do a film on an actor and i used to tease him. i said i should have just done judgmenty stuart or gregory peck, it would have been so much easier you know. he would look at me and that eyebrow would go up. it was really hard. but once he said it, he never disappointed me he was a man of his word. >> rose: he finally said we'll shoot and you come and set this thing up for tomorrow and you said i'll send a car for you. and he said no there's a guy down at the mobile station he will drive me down, i'll be

fine. >> i really miss bob and those kind of people in the film business and in the photography world too. >> rose: all right. take a look at this. this is robert mitchem talking about regarding the song sunny. >> went to nashville and the song i wanted to record was sunny. and so we'd do that. i had a couple of my own i think. the result i guess was worked out all right but i had thought that it was a great song for dean martin. but he was not a california boy, you know. i was associated with an orangutan on baker street and those areas. sunny, da da da da. ♪ my sunny was singing shining

so sincere, sunny once so true, i love you. >> rose: he had something, didn't he. >> he was one of a kind. you know. i've just been doing a lot of the interviews with people you know and knowing how people felt about him as an actor and he's just this guy you know. i think a lot of people don't realize he's really intelligent, really well read. he wrote really well. he was a great musician. in our film, at one point it becomes a musical and he sings with ricky lee jones, dr. john and mary ann faithful. we recorded over capitol records where he recorded his calypso album with sinatra. it was kind of, we really had a great time you know. i missed him a lot you know. i feel real honored. >> rose: when are you going to finish the film.

>> six months. we're pretty close. it took so long, charlie you know. he's very, it was really difficult. we would film when we had money and when bob was around. and people, like dennis hopper said to me how did you get him to do this. i'm so surprised he said yes because he's so difficult about stuff. and i said you know, i think he knew that we really cared about him and really wanted him to do something. i isn't a film that nan and i had did on chet baker and he really loved it. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ ♪music ] >> yes, check, please! people. >> no! >> it's all about licking your plate. >> the food is just fabulous. >> i should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. >> i had a horrible experience. >> i don't even think we were at the same restaurant. >> and everybody, i'm sure, saved room for those desserts.